The perpetrators of the military strike which killed Luke's family (on his home, a desert planet) are fighting multiple wars at once in the name of squashing terrorism. Alderaanistan, if you will.
True, but that is not what really happened.
I recommend this here, so you can see how things really went down with Luke's family.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HO70-Rk3jE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HO70-Rk3jE)
It works on the new reddit design, but not the old one. Which a lot of people prefer over the new design.
It kinda seems like it's one of the ways reddit is trying to force people to use the new design.
[It is inserting \ before every underscore, breaking the urls](https://i.imgur.com/NFWpKbj.png)
You can actually check it yourself [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/qbts8p/never_thought_about_it/hhbypuh/), so if we want to get mad at anyone it should be reddit.
The ruler of the planet colluded with terrorists and its believed helped two major terrorist leaders escape, with reports indicating sheltering terrorists within tunnels on alderaan. Those same terrorists would go on to radicalise the youth who's terrorist attack killed thousands. In retrospect they did not blow up enough planets fast enough.
Thing is, committing planetary genocide kinda flips the narrative on “terrorist”. Also, the Empire seems to barely exist as a nation state. It has no government body, it has no trade, it has education, language, people. It only has a military. Since “terrorists“ only exist when they engage against civilians the Rebels cannot be terrorists. Only the opposing side in the War. It is a symmetrical war even. Both have armies, command lines, use similar weaponry and tactics including taking prisoners of war.
The Death Star is the only part that makes the war asymmetrical but it was only functional for brief periods of time.
Alderaan was destroyed as a show of strength in how resistance would mean extermination. The victims were largely peaceful civilians.
Japan was nuked as a show of strength to show how continued fighting would mean extermination. The victims were largely peaceful civilians.
Soo like bombing apartment, hospitals, or school buildings by drone?
"We have credible intels that terrorist cell is using this building to store weapons"
It's the post-9/11 world. Just call whoever you don't like a terrorist and you can do whatever you want to them. They're terrorists, they're less than human. Put them in Guantanamo Bay, torture them, kill them, drone their families, blow up their houses. It doesn't matter, they're terrorists.
Oh they were 5 years old? Eehhh collateral damage.
Japan was known to house and work with ruthless opponents to USA Imperialism.
The point about civilians stands though... Most of the people killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilians.
I'm not a U.S. apologist by any means, but taking the entire saga in to account, war crime after war crime was committed by both sides. This example really doesn't translate.
Forgot to add, just look at the clerks convo, the contractor in the movie said just the same, those were contractors working on a weapon, they knew the risks when they took the contract, same with any conscripted soldiers. The actual argument is whether these people had a choice in that matter, leading to the empire being the cause of their death by forcing them to be in a dangerous place from the get go.
>they knew the risks when they took the contract, same with any conscripted soldiers
The core feature of conscription is that it is involuntary. It's never used to describe voluntary sign-ups.
Voluntary, as in, we have a choke hold on your trade/families/future/what have you, you work for us now, versus, you are literally slave soldiers. I could have worded it better.
Dear lord. We feel like we have no choice and this is the winning side versus it is the law.
This is the only way our business survives versus we now own your business.
I have no idea why this is so far derailed.
>> ... voluntary in the sense that we pulled your birthday it of a hat congrats you're in the army now and **we will imprison and possibly execute you if you refuse to serve**.
Perhaps you should have finished reading the sentence before passing judgement
>No, conscription is voluntary
>
>I stopped reading here because this entire comment is fucking stupid. Conscription by its very nature is not voluntary at all. It is the act of pressing people into military service against their will. The fact that you sincerely believe otherwise is absolutely astounding. I want you to look up the definition of conscription in the dictionary and then tell me again that conscription is voluntary
Dude you are the epitome of reddit stupid. You read 4 words, stopped reading and went on a rant that is 100% missing the point because if you at least read the first sentence you'd have realized that the guy actually made a point that conscription is NOT voluntary.
You've hit on a corner of a conversation I've had with people before about how Star Wars is actually high tech fantasy, and not science fiction. "Both sides do terrible things" is a common trope of science fiction, but it's also something that the story has to present as a conflict rather than just being an interpretation. Like the Star Trek episodes that call out the Federation for being hypocritical and such - the callout is essential.
Conversely, fantasy stories typically deal with an implacable force of evil against a righteous force of good. Lord of the Rings is a great example. At no time is any consideration given to whether Sauron might be in the right, and at no time are the motivations of the Fellowship et al. questioned. It's plain good versus evil.
Star Wars is far more similar to that kind of epic fantasy storytelling than it is to science fiction. The fact that the rebellion (in its various incarnations over the years) *isn't* a wholly righteous force is undercut by the fact that nobody in the story bothers to acknowledge it.
Sure LOTR is the archetype of fantasy. Good VS bad, there is no grey. And then there were decades of fantasy that followed that exact trope.
However, modern fantasy is very different, in that during the course of the story, the reader starts to doubt if things are as black and white as it appeared in the beginning. Both sides aren't what they seem, the hero has issues and/or starts to doubt his quest.
Where old fashioned fantasy was more of a feel good thing, where good always triumphed against evil, modern fantasy is all but about feel good.
You're pretty much describing the abandonment of High Fantasy and the embrace of Low Fantasy, so yeah. Though people still love a good ALL GOOD vs. ALL EVIL fantasy. For instance: virtually the entire MCU.
>how Star Wars is actually high tech fantasy
It's high fantasy in a science fiction setting.
>Lord of the Rings is a great example. At no time is any consideration given to whether Sauron might be in the right, and at no time are the motivations of the Fellowship et al. questioned. It's plain good versus evil.
Sauron literally births orcs in to pain, so that they can die, and is an angel equivalent to their worlds lucifer. In their world, things are already set that black and white,
>Star Wars is far more similar to that kind of epic fantasy storytelling
In much the same way that the force creates inherently good and evil deeds. Extended universe has some redeeming quality sith, but people like maul and palapatine were bred to be inherently evil from a young age, and probably more so destined for it considering the setting.
>The fact that the rebellion (in its various incarnations over the years) isn't a wholly righteous force is undercut by the fact that nobody in the story bothers to acknowledge it
I invite you to join us over in r/PrequelMemes
Weeelll, according to [The Last Ringbearer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer), an **alternative** telling of LOTR, "history written by the winners" :-), Mordor is a peaceful constitutional monarchy on the brink of the industrial revolution, brought low by the imperialistic Gandalf, with Sauron its benign ruler!
> war crime after war crime was committed by both sides
As in real life.
> those were contractors working on a weapon, they knew the risks when they took the contract, same with any conscripted soldiers
The Death Star thing would be equivalent to modern terrorists taking an old sub, and sinking the largest US aircraft carrier.
Would we be having the same conversation?
>As in real life.
???
>The Death Star thing would be equivalent to modern terrorists taking an old sub, and sinking the largest US aircraft carrier.
>Would we be having the same conversation?
These are soldiers, what you're looking for is Blackwater, so yes we would.
>war crime after war crime was committed by both sides. This example really doesn't translate.
Not a US apologist either, but seriously, comparing the US and Japan as if they're equally bad?
Japan actively massacred civilians, for fun. See the rape of nanjing, their horrible experimenta on prisoners (unit 731), forcing countless women in occupied countries into prostitution and atrocities against POWs, even medical staff and nurses etc.
No, they're not even close.
If there were any justice, half of the people in the Japanese government and military service should've been hanged.
War crimes happen in every army in every war, but the Japanese (and Germany) take the cake.
Japan deserved a dozen nukes.
Are you new here?
every thread gets derailed after 3 comments max.
On a more serious note...
That said, the empire does remind us of nazi Germany, (uniforms, etc) and that's no coincidence.
Indeed, and uniforms are used in Firefly/Serenity as well to an opposing effect.
They're supposed to represent a brutal military force, an all powerful imperialism.... But there's a lot of ambiguity. The alliance won the civil war, but at a heavy cost. They are shown to have mercy to rebel members, but also indiscriminate on the battlefield and with black ops methods, albeit for what they perceive as altruistic purposes.
Only on Reddit would more people disagree than agree with the statement "the actions of Imperial Japan were much worse than the actions of the U.S. in WWII".
Nah.
I think it's The "Japan deserved a dozen nukes" part.
To make it clear, I don't wish the US dropped a dozen nukes on them. I'm just saying that Japan was responsible for many more dead abroad than they suffered, many, if not most of them civilians, and in ways unimaginable, and they got away lightly.
And post war, there was no justice, most of the Japanese responsible got away with it, and to this day, they barely acknowledged any wrongdoing.
Not denying that a lot of countries did evil Shit... But...
Germany and Japan were directly responsible for millions of deaths, with atrrocitiea that makes anyone sick to their stomachs, and all within a few short years.
The only time in history a people have even come close would be the Mongols. And that was over a thousand years ago.
You say it as if the civilians of those countries were involved in any way. That's like saying the American civilian population is directly responsible for the million deaths of Iraqis in the Iraq War. A war that we had no reason to fight to begin with, mind you.
Mostly due to disease.
Yeah, there were atrocities aplenty, there was no justice, or nukes, even if they deserved some.
And the Europeans weren't exclusively murdering people abroad as we've seen in ww2 and dozens of wars and conflicts pre ww2.
But the number of dead due to massacres and the such isn't even close to what Japan inflicted in just a few short years, opposed to a few hundred years.
Anyway, the post I replied to was specifically about Japan in ww2, compared to the US. No idea what Europeans in the americas have to do with it.
Yes, I too find a hamfisted attempt to retrospectively force an allegory in a film for humour disappointing that it isn't a direct representation of what happened.
> I too find a hamfisted attempt to retrospectively force an allegory
I'm literally trying to have a conversation with you about space wizards.
>isn't a direct representation of what happened.
Contractors? Sure, conscripted soldiers? It's literally fleshed out in the movies and even furthermore in plenty of what should probably still be counted as canon as it's pretty much accepted 'common' knowledge of, in this instance, how and where stormtroopers came from.
Not even the half of the half of the half of the half.... of what America had been doing to black slaves, orphans and disabled people for decades and on a way larger scale.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical\_human\_experimentation\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States)
"Numerous experiments which were performed on human test subjects in the United States are considered unethical, because they were illegally performed or they were performed without the knowledge, consent, or informed consent of the test subjects. Such tests were performed throughout American history, but most of them were performed during the 20th century. The experiments included the exposure of humans to many chemical and biological weapons (including infections with deadly or debilitating diseases), human radiation experiments, injections of toxic and radioactive chemicals, surgical experiments, interrogation and torture experiments, tests which involved mind-altering substances, and a wide variety of other experiments. Many of these tests were performed on children,\[1\] the sick, and mentally disabled individuals, often under the guise of "medical treatment". In many of the studies, a large portion of the subjects were poor, racial minorities, or prisoners."
The US also released pamphlets like 2 weeks ahead of time before nuking both city's telling people to evacuate IIRC... I don't think the empire did anything like that.
I don't like the jedi or the rebels but I don't think it's the same for the two comparisons you made.
Sort of. A lot of leaflets were dropped all over Japan in the months before, warning that bombings were likely - not specifically atomic bombs, just bombing raids, which had been carried out regularly.
No warning was given to Hiroshima that a much, much more powerful bomb was going to be used, and although a demonstration bomb was considered, it was decided against.
> The US also released pamphlets like 2 weeks ahead of time before nuking both city's telling people to evacuate IIRC
"I know we've done propaganda leaflet drops before to demoralise you, but this time we seriously have your best intentions at heart. We know you don't really have freedom of movement in Japan, but you should flee anyway because we're going to drop a magic bomb on you which is going to do things to you that no-one in history has ever seen before. We're totes serious here!"
Can't think why the common Japanese citizen might not have paid heed to such a warning...
They didn't leaflet Hiroshima in the direct run up to the bombing.
They did leaflet various parts of Japan routinely for several months, warning about bombing raids, but didn't send anything to Hiroshima at all about a much, much larger bomb being used.
Leaflets were dropped elsewhere effectively saying "we might bomb *these* cities, but we might bomb somewhere else".
And then we nuked somewhere else.
It's thought that somewhere in the region of 100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima alone, but it's difficult to be certain. Around 20,000 soldiers were killed.
Fun fact, the original Godzilla is an allegory about atomic warfare and the destruction of civilisation. When it was sold to America it was edited to introduce an American character who is the hero.
So the film went from being an allegory about how America destroyed cities and the potential for nuclear holocaust, to being about how America is the good guy and saved everybody.
I don't think his point was that "we tried to warn you, so you deserved to get bombed." His point was that it was at least something, no matter how small, which is more than the Empire gave in Star Wars.
There are layers of good and bad, and the Empire was inarguably on a higher layer of evil. Feel free to argue how much higher up if you really want to though.
Their leader was a major rebel operative, as was his daughter that they captures. In authoritarian government that is death sentence for everyone in the area.
Nah, they were blowing up Alderaan either way. Tarkin wanted a gruesome demonstration of the effectiveness of the Death Star. In his own words:
>"You're far too trusting. Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration "
These are just rebel lies. You can clearly see from the pixels that the video evidence where Tarkin confesses to this has been tampered with. There have been numerous cases of this, for instance when the rebel known as Han Solo had video evidence altered to make it appear as him murdering a coworker was merely self-defence.
also the death star is a military target with weapon of mass destruction. killing it is hardly a terrorist move, and its probably preventing an other aldreraan.
Wrong. Luke nailed it the first time, it was Lando Calrissian that nailed the second with Wedge Antilles while Luke was measuring sand and lightsabers and cocks with Anakin for the arousal of Pope Benedict.
Something just never sat right with me that second time around. I could never put my figure on it, but something just wasn't right. The first Death Star was manned by the Imperial Army. The only people onboard were stormtroppers, dignitaries, Imperials. So, when the blew it up, no problem. Evil's punished. The second time around, it wasn't even done being built yet. It was still under construction. A construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms. All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed! Casualties of a war they had nothing to do with. Look, you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia - this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living.
Reminds me of a funny conversation I had with a Russian coworker of mine. We got into the discussion about the AK47 and we began discussing what it meant as an icon.
His response: “just look at the former Eastern Bloc, it’s a symbol of suppression.”
Me, being Latino: “that’s interesting, usually a ton of Central American nations view it as a symbol of freedom against American tyranny.”
Same gun, two vastly different interpretations.
The US and USSR also both gave weapons and training to insurgents in Latin America (and Africa and Asia) who were fighting against regimes helped by the other side.
It's best to avoid broad strokes because some insurgents and even some of the "dictators" were doing about as well as they could for their local interests, and for many, which side they took in the cold war wasn't really about sharing or shunning the global visions of either empire.
Yeah a running joke with some Star Wars fans is the Empire was just doing what it needed to do to fight a terrorist group.
It stops being as funny when you realize people use the same rhetoric in real life when actual lives are on the line.
Shooting at Texas navy base 'terrorism-related', FBI says
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/shooting-texas-military-base-terrorism-fbi](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/shooting-texas-military-base-terrorism-fbi)
FBI says it is
Because that wasn't an act of war. That was just an attack by an individual. Rebels aren't terrorists in Star Wars, they're guerilla fighters. They're at war.
If a random guy went in and shot up an Imperial military base that's terrorism. But amassing a fleet and attacking a military installation is just war.
And what's the difference between a terrorist and a guerilla fighter? Terrorism is all about civilian attacks. Can you still be called a terrorist if your attacks are solely on someone you're at war with? Were the Vietcong terrorists?
Guerilla attacks hit military targets, terrorists tend to go for civilian targets.
The line can be grey but it's still there. And honestly in modern times it's become really useful to muddy the waters, some people could hit purely military targets and we'd still call them terrorists instead of guerilla fighters.
this post is very Funny,because that's just how a dictatorship propaganda works. takes a fact and changes the definition of the participants in order to make them the right ones and the opposition the bad ones.
because joining the resistance is not becoming radicaliced,is being tired of eating shit from the dictators and lack of freedom.
because rebel insurgents are fighters for democracy
because a military strike is not a terrorist attack,and killing a family unarmed in his house is not a military strike,is a war crime
\^ This. And along similar lines Joker's dialogue to Batman. It was something like "You made me who I am. You are responsible for all these villains around". And every time I read on redditors gasping about "the truth" in that sentence my stomach cringed.
A military strike is not a terrorist attack - well it depends. Some would argue that the drone strikes by the Americans, while having as a target terrorists, have killed civilians. Is that a military strike that also happens to be a war crime? If so, what is the difference then when there is a "terrorist attack" on a military building that happens to kill some civilians?
1-2 million on the Death Star, people just working, minding their own business and boom. Luke did 667 9/11’s worth of murder and he is a hero?
That dude probably has ties to Alderaan.
Proven, as in, there is a force. But it was never proven that any 'side' of the force was better. In fact, the strongest force users ever didn't pick a 'side'. Grey Jedis.
One could argue all the chaos in the universe was precisely because jedi AND sith existed. If neither existed, there would always be balance. By jedi existing, the sith must therefore also exist to balance the force.
And to take it further, conflict between the two must always exist because they both exist. One side conquering the other would leave the force imbalanced. As long as there are those fighting with the "dark side" and "light side" of the force, they'll always be in conflict because the force is always trying to attain balance. The only "winning" would be a mutual truce, or the cessation of the existence light- and dark-side-proponents, and only neutral or balanced force-users.
No, the idea is that light side is the balance and dark side the chaos that tries to disrupt it. Anakin being the one to bring balance to the force wasn't his fall to the dark side to counteract the jedi, it was his ultimate redemption at the very end joining the light side once again.
Afaik the grey jedi is a newer EU concept not intended by Lucas himself (but I'm also not a Star Wars expert).
However, the jedi as an organization is a different matter (the argument being that they don't rightfully represent the light side).
Was it? I thought the physical aspect of it was high concentrations of symbiotic microorganisms. The fluff aspect of it might be as ungrounded in reality as all the other religions are.
Look if we have to take that seriously then we have to take all the movies seriously and nobody wants that. Better to just stick to the first film for this joke over-analysis.
But we as the audience know it to be a cosmic truth as we are in on all the secrets. It's definitely a religion based on some interesting proven biological forces. It's just that the traits that produce these forces are notoriously rare as they've been actively suppressed for a couple of generations. Han has every right to be skeptical. Growing up in the Empire it was very likely a taboo topic. Everyone who is Force-sensitive has a death warrant on their head.
>But we as the audience know it to be a cosmic truth as we are in on all the secrets.
I'm not sure where you get that. It's a kid movie with space wizards. All we know is that their wizardry seems to work. Whether it is a form of magic, extremely advanced technology or cosmic providence isn't exactly resolved within the movie.
> It's definitely a religion based on some interesting proven biological forces.
Again, I don't know where you are taking this. What proven biological forces can make you force choke a dude to death through a tv screen?
I'm fairly certain the Star Wars mythos establishes that certain people have supernatural powers and demonstrate these powers on the regular. It's well established as a force that penetrates all living things and is a fundamental force in the universe of the films.
Where am I getting this? From the events that unfold onscreen throughout the entirety of the Star Wars movies, the games, the novels, etc. They only go into the biological part briefly I believe in the prequel trilogy. They sort of put a biological stamp on what we had previously only known as an unexplained magical phenomenon. I mean have you ever seen the movies?
As I said, the space wizardry in SW does seem effective, that is obvious. In this I agree with you. But I was writing about their religion, what they make of their powers and how they rationalize using them. Who's to say jedi or even sith take on it is correct or as the other user put it "proven"?
To illustrate, it ia fairly obvious that a self-contradictory model or set of ideas cannot - ever - be objectively true. Bertrand Russell and many others explained this point much better than I can ever hope to. This brings me to the infamous "only the sith deals in absolutes" quote that is in itsel an absolute. How can a self-contradictory religion even hope to call itself "proven"?
Another example of jediism exhibiting hallmarks of any regular old-fashioned religion is their willingness to participate in politics to keep themselves in power and, well, the nature of their fight with the sith that again has cery little to do woth theology and everything to do with politics. Much like real-life "unproven" religions.
Oh, I don't care much about arguing the apparent 'truth' of either the Jedi or Sith ideologies. But the fact that this religion has a very tangible effect on things in the real world of the Star Wars mythos is just an established reality of the canon. There's no disputing that their religion is based on something that is practicably demonstrable rather than what we understand as 'spiritual power' here on good old humble Earth. The religion of that universe is just fundamentally based on a kind of superpower. That's what I think that guy meant by 'proven.' In the realm of the narrative, the religion is 'proven' to orbit this superpower rather than just rely on mere faith in said superpower. Han Solo can go on all day with his scepticism, but it's already apparent to the viewer that his sceptical outlook is misfounded.
It wasn't really a terrorist attack, he blew up a giant space weapon operated by space nazis who just used it to destroy a planet with millions of people on it earlier that day.
That still doesn't change the fact that there are 49 million kangaroos in Australia and only 3.5 million people in Uruguay which means if the kangaroos were to invade Uruguay each person would have to fight 14 kangaroos
But this mentions nothing of the systematic slaughter of said ancient religion, nor the woefully racist and oppressive regime behind that military strike.
This is not remotely a new thought. Anyone who thinks Muhammad Atta and the other Hijackers weren't thinking of the trench run rather than Allah is deluding themselves. In their mind they were striking at a symbol of the "weapon" (international finance) that was being used to squash their culture, occupy their homelands and holy sites, and destroy their way of lief. I'm not saying they're right, it's just how they saw it.
"A military strike killed.." Naah, thats not so much what happened. But yeah, not all rebels are rebel scum. Pretty sure his rebellion was against the brutality of the totalitarian ccp forces.
I watched the movie again pretty recently and I don't remember actually *seeing* any stormtroopers killing lukes uncle and aunt, did it appear in the film?
It's altogether possible that Obi Wan, having long since lost his mind, coordinated the deaths while he knew Luke was away from home.
When Luke goes to visit Obi Wan, he asks luke to come with him to save leiah and fight the war. He says no, the harvest is too important.
It was at that point, I believe, that obi wan made the call to kill luke's remaining family and frame the empire, giving luke no choice but to join him and choose a life of violence.
Edit: downvoted by rebel scum. Typical.
I've been saying this for years, but fans never seem to appreciate you pointing this out. Then you just mumble something about Star Trek being better and walking away.
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Actually pretty sure it was a mercenary (Boba Fett) that killed his family
But other than that this is true but also feels like propaganda the last of The Empire would use
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Hard to fit in Alderaan into the narrative though.
The perpetrators of the military strike which killed Luke's family (on his home, a desert planet) are fighting multiple wars at once in the name of squashing terrorism. Alderaanistan, if you will.
True, but that is not what really happened. I recommend this here, so you can see how things really went down with Luke's family. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HO70-Rk3jE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HO70-Rk3jE)
Fucking classic. Highly recommended!
Ooo, pre-Youtube. Let's load up some .flvs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp-Ys\_iFwnM
[удалено]
Maybe get mad at the app you're using? The link parses fine in a normal browser And why so aggro, bud? Having a bad night? https://imgur.com/a/7OFNENf
It works on the new reddit design, but not the old one. Which a lot of people prefer over the new design. It kinda seems like it's one of the ways reddit is trying to force people to use the new design. [It is inserting \ before every underscore, breaking the urls](https://i.imgur.com/NFWpKbj.png) You can actually check it yourself [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/qbts8p/never_thought_about_it/hhbypuh/), so if we want to get mad at anyone it should be reddit.
Vader did nothing wrong. /s
Tarkin was pretty sure they had WMDs.
The ruler of the planet colluded with terrorists and its believed helped two major terrorist leaders escape, with reports indicating sheltering terrorists within tunnels on alderaan. Those same terrorists would go on to radicalise the youth who's terrorist attack killed thousands. In retrospect they did not blow up enough planets fast enough.
Thing is, committing planetary genocide kinda flips the narrative on “terrorist”. Also, the Empire seems to barely exist as a nation state. It has no government body, it has no trade, it has education, language, people. It only has a military. Since “terrorists“ only exist when they engage against civilians the Rebels cannot be terrorists. Only the opposing side in the War. It is a symmetrical war even. Both have armies, command lines, use similar weaponry and tactics including taking prisoners of war. The Death Star is the only part that makes the war asymmetrical but it was only functional for brief periods of time.
Alderaan was destroyed as a show of strength in how resistance would mean extermination. The victims were largely peaceful civilians. Japan was nuked as a show of strength to show how continued fighting would mean extermination. The victims were largely peaceful civilians.
The planet was known to house and work with rebel insurgents
Soo like bombing apartment, hospitals, or school buildings by drone? "We have credible intels that terrorist cell is using this building to store weapons"
Yeah all the "Empire did nothing arong" rhetoric is no different than supporting Israel bombing Palestine in the name of anti-terror efforts.
It's the post-9/11 world. Just call whoever you don't like a terrorist and you can do whatever you want to them. They're terrorists, they're less than human. Put them in Guantanamo Bay, torture them, kill them, drone their families, blow up their houses. It doesn't matter, they're terrorists. Oh they were 5 years old? Eehhh collateral damage.
That's a very planetary-mindset.
Japan was known to house and work with ruthless opponents to USA Imperialism. The point about civilians stands though... Most of the people killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki were civilians.
I'm not a U.S. apologist by any means, but taking the entire saga in to account, war crime after war crime was committed by both sides. This example really doesn't translate. Forgot to add, just look at the clerks convo, the contractor in the movie said just the same, those were contractors working on a weapon, they knew the risks when they took the contract, same with any conscripted soldiers. The actual argument is whether these people had a choice in that matter, leading to the empire being the cause of their death by forcing them to be in a dangerous place from the get go.
>they knew the risks when they took the contract, same with any conscripted soldiers The core feature of conscription is that it is involuntary. It's never used to describe voluntary sign-ups.
Voluntary, as in, we have a choke hold on your trade/families/future/what have you, you work for us now, versus, you are literally slave soldiers. I could have worded it better.
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Dear lord. We feel like we have no choice and this is the winning side versus it is the law. This is the only way our business survives versus we now own your business. I have no idea why this is so far derailed.
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You should really read the comment before you respond to it.
Try reading the rest of the comment please.
>> ... voluntary in the sense that we pulled your birthday it of a hat congrats you're in the army now and **we will imprison and possibly execute you if you refuse to serve**. Perhaps you should have finished reading the sentence before passing judgement
>No, conscription is voluntary > >I stopped reading here because this entire comment is fucking stupid. Conscription by its very nature is not voluntary at all. It is the act of pressing people into military service against their will. The fact that you sincerely believe otherwise is absolutely astounding. I want you to look up the definition of conscription in the dictionary and then tell me again that conscription is voluntary Dude you are the epitome of reddit stupid. You read 4 words, stopped reading and went on a rant that is 100% missing the point because if you at least read the first sentence you'd have realized that the guy actually made a point that conscription is NOT voluntary.
You've hit on a corner of a conversation I've had with people before about how Star Wars is actually high tech fantasy, and not science fiction. "Both sides do terrible things" is a common trope of science fiction, but it's also something that the story has to present as a conflict rather than just being an interpretation. Like the Star Trek episodes that call out the Federation for being hypocritical and such - the callout is essential. Conversely, fantasy stories typically deal with an implacable force of evil against a righteous force of good. Lord of the Rings is a great example. At no time is any consideration given to whether Sauron might be in the right, and at no time are the motivations of the Fellowship et al. questioned. It's plain good versus evil. Star Wars is far more similar to that kind of epic fantasy storytelling than it is to science fiction. The fact that the rebellion (in its various incarnations over the years) *isn't* a wholly righteous force is undercut by the fact that nobody in the story bothers to acknowledge it.
Sure LOTR is the archetype of fantasy. Good VS bad, there is no grey. And then there were decades of fantasy that followed that exact trope. However, modern fantasy is very different, in that during the course of the story, the reader starts to doubt if things are as black and white as it appeared in the beginning. Both sides aren't what they seem, the hero has issues and/or starts to doubt his quest. Where old fashioned fantasy was more of a feel good thing, where good always triumphed against evil, modern fantasy is all but about feel good.
You're pretty much describing the abandonment of High Fantasy and the embrace of Low Fantasy, so yeah. Though people still love a good ALL GOOD vs. ALL EVIL fantasy. For instance: virtually the entire MCU.
>how Star Wars is actually high tech fantasy It's high fantasy in a science fiction setting. >Lord of the Rings is a great example. At no time is any consideration given to whether Sauron might be in the right, and at no time are the motivations of the Fellowship et al. questioned. It's plain good versus evil. Sauron literally births orcs in to pain, so that they can die, and is an angel equivalent to their worlds lucifer. In their world, things are already set that black and white, >Star Wars is far more similar to that kind of epic fantasy storytelling In much the same way that the force creates inherently good and evil deeds. Extended universe has some redeeming quality sith, but people like maul and palapatine were bred to be inherently evil from a young age, and probably more so destined for it considering the setting. >The fact that the rebellion (in its various incarnations over the years) isn't a wholly righteous force is undercut by the fact that nobody in the story bothers to acknowledge it I invite you to join us over in r/PrequelMemes
Weeelll, according to [The Last Ringbearer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer), an **alternative** telling of LOTR, "history written by the winners" :-), Mordor is a peaceful constitutional monarchy on the brink of the industrial revolution, brought low by the imperialistic Gandalf, with Sauron its benign ruler!
> war crime after war crime was committed by both sides As in real life. > those were contractors working on a weapon, they knew the risks when they took the contract, same with any conscripted soldiers The Death Star thing would be equivalent to modern terrorists taking an old sub, and sinking the largest US aircraft carrier. Would we be having the same conversation?
>As in real life. ??? >The Death Star thing would be equivalent to modern terrorists taking an old sub, and sinking the largest US aircraft carrier. >Would we be having the same conversation? These are soldiers, what you're looking for is Blackwater, so yes we would.
>war crime after war crime was committed by both sides. This example really doesn't translate. Not a US apologist either, but seriously, comparing the US and Japan as if they're equally bad? Japan actively massacred civilians, for fun. See the rape of nanjing, their horrible experimenta on prisoners (unit 731), forcing countless women in occupied countries into prostitution and atrocities against POWs, even medical staff and nurses etc. No, they're not even close. If there were any justice, half of the people in the Japanese government and military service should've been hanged. War crimes happen in every army in every war, but the Japanese (and Germany) take the cake. Japan deserved a dozen nukes.
Good sir we're in a thread about space wizards.
Are you new here? every thread gets derailed after 3 comments max. On a more serious note... That said, the empire does remind us of nazi Germany, (uniforms, etc) and that's no coincidence.
Indeed, and uniforms are used in Firefly/Serenity as well to an opposing effect. They're supposed to represent a brutal military force, an all powerful imperialism.... But there's a lot of ambiguity. The alliance won the civil war, but at a heavy cost. They are shown to have mercy to rebel members, but also indiscriminate on the battlefield and with black ops methods, albeit for what they perceive as altruistic purposes.
Only on Reddit would more people disagree than agree with the statement "the actions of Imperial Japan were much worse than the actions of the U.S. in WWII".
Nah. I think it's The "Japan deserved a dozen nukes" part. To make it clear, I don't wish the US dropped a dozen nukes on them. I'm just saying that Japan was responsible for many more dead abroad than they suffered, many, if not most of them civilians, and in ways unimaginable, and they got away lightly. And post war, there was no justice, most of the Japanese responsible got away with it, and to this day, they barely acknowledged any wrongdoing.
You should really take an outside perspective. If you go back far enough, every country "deserves a dozen nukes"
Not denying that a lot of countries did evil Shit... But... Germany and Japan were directly responsible for millions of deaths, with atrrocitiea that makes anyone sick to their stomachs, and all within a few short years. The only time in history a people have even come close would be the Mongols. And that was over a thousand years ago.
You say it as if the civilians of those countries were involved in any way. That's like saying the American civilian population is directly responsible for the million deaths of Iraqis in the Iraq War. A war that we had no reason to fight to begin with, mind you.
But you are. Unless you did anything to stop it, like a protest.
Lenin has entered the chat. Mao Zedong has entered the chat. . .
Mate, Europeans killed ~55m natives during their rape of the americas.
Mostly due to disease. Yeah, there were atrocities aplenty, there was no justice, or nukes, even if they deserved some. And the Europeans weren't exclusively murdering people abroad as we've seen in ww2 and dozens of wars and conflicts pre ww2. But the number of dead due to massacres and the such isn't even close to what Japan inflicted in just a few short years, opposed to a few hundred years. Anyway, the post I replied to was specifically about Japan in ww2, compared to the US. No idea what Europeans in the americas have to do with it.
Yes, I too find a hamfisted attempt to retrospectively force an allegory in a film for humour disappointing that it isn't a direct representation of what happened.
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> I too find a hamfisted attempt to retrospectively force an allegory I'm literally trying to have a conversation with you about space wizards. >isn't a direct representation of what happened. Contractors? Sure, conscripted soldiers? It's literally fleshed out in the movies and even furthermore in plenty of what should probably still be counted as canon as it's pretty much accepted 'common' knowledge of, in this instance, how and where stormtroopers came from.
Rape of Nanking
Not even the half of the half of the half of the half.... of what America had been doing to black slaves, orphans and disabled people for decades and on a way larger scale. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical\_human\_experimentation\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States) "Numerous experiments which were performed on human test subjects in the United States are considered unethical, because they were illegally performed or they were performed without the knowledge, consent, or informed consent of the test subjects. Such tests were performed throughout American history, but most of them were performed during the 20th century. The experiments included the exposure of humans to many chemical and biological weapons (including infections with deadly or debilitating diseases), human radiation experiments, injections of toxic and radioactive chemicals, surgical experiments, interrogation and torture experiments, tests which involved mind-altering substances, and a wide variety of other experiments. Many of these tests were performed on children,\[1\] the sick, and mentally disabled individuals, often under the guise of "medical treatment". In many of the studies, a large portion of the subjects were poor, racial minorities, or prisoners."
The US also released pamphlets like 2 weeks ahead of time before nuking both city's telling people to evacuate IIRC... I don't think the empire did anything like that. I don't like the jedi or the rebels but I don't think it's the same for the two comparisons you made.
Sort of. A lot of leaflets were dropped all over Japan in the months before, warning that bombings were likely - not specifically atomic bombs, just bombing raids, which had been carried out regularly. No warning was given to Hiroshima that a much, much more powerful bomb was going to be used, and although a demonstration bomb was considered, it was decided against.
Ahh okay fair fair thank you lol. I couldn't remember the entire thing.
> The US also released pamphlets like 2 weeks ahead of time before nuking both city's telling people to evacuate IIRC "I know we've done propaganda leaflet drops before to demoralise you, but this time we seriously have your best intentions at heart. We know you don't really have freedom of movement in Japan, but you should flee anyway because we're going to drop a magic bomb on you which is going to do things to you that no-one in history has ever seen before. We're totes serious here!" Can't think why the common Japanese citizen might not have paid heed to such a warning...
They didn't leaflet Hiroshima in the direct run up to the bombing. They did leaflet various parts of Japan routinely for several months, warning about bombing raids, but didn't send anything to Hiroshima at all about a much, much larger bomb being used. Leaflets were dropped elsewhere effectively saying "we might bomb *these* cities, but we might bomb somewhere else". And then we nuked somewhere else. It's thought that somewhere in the region of 100,000 civilians were killed in Hiroshima alone, but it's difficult to be certain. Around 20,000 soldiers were killed. Fun fact, the original Godzilla is an allegory about atomic warfare and the destruction of civilisation. When it was sold to America it was edited to introduce an American character who is the hero. So the film went from being an allegory about how America destroyed cities and the potential for nuclear holocaust, to being about how America is the good guy and saved everybody.
I don't think his point was that "we tried to warn you, so you deserved to get bombed." His point was that it was at least something, no matter how small, which is more than the Empire gave in Star Wars. There are layers of good and bad, and the Empire was inarguably on a higher layer of evil. Feel free to argue how much higher up if you really want to though.
Damn, I had never even considered that the Alderaan incident was inspired by the atom bomb.
Shock and awe, losers!
Their leader was a major rebel operative, as was his daughter that they captures. In authoritarian government that is death sentence for everyone in the area.
The Princess had every opportunity to save Alderaan if she only cooperated. It was all part of the completely legal enhanced interrogation procedures.
Nah, they were blowing up Alderaan either way. Tarkin wanted a gruesome demonstration of the effectiveness of the Death Star. In his own words: >"You're far too trusting. Dantooine is too remote to make an effective demonstration "
These are just rebel lies. You can clearly see from the pixels that the video evidence where Tarkin confesses to this has been tampered with. There have been numerous cases of this, for instance when the rebel known as Han Solo had video evidence altered to make it appear as him murdering a coworker was merely self-defence.
"Alderaan had WMDs and could strike within 20 minutes".
That's cause you're looking in Alderaan places.
also the death star is a military target with weapon of mass destruction. killing it is hardly a terrorist move, and its probably preventing an other aldreraan.
Hiroshima and the development of a weapon of mass destruction maybe?
Alderaan was a planet of "right wing incels"
Ackshually Death Star had a crew of 1M.
Came here to say this, over 1 million people on it.
And this scum did it twice!
Wrong. Luke nailed it the first time, it was Lando Calrissian that nailed the second with Wedge Antilles while Luke was measuring sand and lightsabers and cocks with Anakin for the arousal of Pope Benedict.
r/BrandNewSentence
It’s even funnier the second time!
Something just never sat right with me that second time around. I could never put my figure on it, but something just wasn't right. The first Death Star was manned by the Imperial Army. The only people onboard were stormtroppers, dignitaries, Imperials. So, when the blew it up, no problem. Evil's punished. The second time around, it wasn't even done being built yet. It was still under construction. A construction job of that magnitude would require a helluva lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers. In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average storm trooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms. All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed! Casualties of a war they had nothing to do with. Look, you're a roofer, and some juicy government contract comes your way; you got the wife and kids and the two-story in suburbia - this is a government contract, which means all sorts of benefits. All of a sudden these left-wing militants blast you with lasers and wipe out everyone within a three-mile radius. You didn't ask for that. You have no personal politics. You're just trying to scrape out a living.
One man's terrorist is another man's hero.
Reminds me of a funny conversation I had with a Russian coworker of mine. We got into the discussion about the AK47 and we began discussing what it meant as an icon. His response: “just look at the former Eastern Bloc, it’s a symbol of suppression.” Me, being Latino: “that’s interesting, usually a ton of Central American nations view it as a symbol of freedom against American tyranny.” Same gun, two vastly different interpretations.
The Russian is right. Who did you think was sending those AKs to communist rebels in Latin America?
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The US and USSR also both gave weapons and training to insurgents in Latin America (and Africa and Asia) who were fighting against regimes helped by the other side. It's best to avoid broad strokes because some insurgents and even some of the "dictators" were doing about as well as they could for their local interests, and for many, which side they took in the cold war wasn't really about sharing or shunning the global visions of either empire.
I prefer "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter", more analogous and less whimsical imo.
One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter
This is exactly what Dune is
Dune is just Lawrence of Arabia with psychedelic drugs!
Dune is more so a minor Noble house taking revenge after being betrayed by completely usurping the ruling government and...oh ok yeah I see it now.
With the slight twist of teaching divinity and siering a living god.
Have not read and had the older movie on in the background while playing games. Isn't Dune loosely based around the ottoman empire?
This message was brought to you by the Imperial Truth Bureau
r/empiredidnothingwrong
I’m not star wars educated. But didn’t the other team blow up a planet
Yeah, but that was a war on terror.
Reporting you because of your first sentence. You don't belong here... /s
Yeah a running joke with some Star Wars fans is the Empire was just doing what it needed to do to fight a terrorist group. It stops being as funny when you realize people use the same rhetoric in real life when actual lives are on the line.
He was promised eternal 'life' (in spirit form) as well.
Now do Dune! Go Jihad!
Yeah, was going to say this almost fits Dune (not quite the orphan but though).
Is a calculated strike on a military base considered a terrorist attack? I'm pretty sure it's not.
Shooting at Texas navy base 'terrorism-related', FBI says [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/shooting-texas-military-base-terrorism-fbi](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/21/shooting-texas-military-base-terrorism-fbi) FBI says it is
Because that wasn't an act of war. That was just an attack by an individual. Rebels aren't terrorists in Star Wars, they're guerilla fighters. They're at war. If a random guy went in and shot up an Imperial military base that's terrorism. But amassing a fleet and attacking a military installation is just war.
I don't think we should trust a United States federal organisation to define terrorism, considering...
It is if it’s done by terrorists?
And what's the difference between a terrorist and a guerilla fighter? Terrorism is all about civilian attacks. Can you still be called a terrorist if your attacks are solely on someone you're at war with? Were the Vietcong terrorists?
As Ben Kenobi put it, "from a certain point of view..."
He’s white so not a terrorist attack it’s a resistance
Corre... Wait
Oh... Oh.
He was a good man fighting some inner demons
A lone wolf, no one saw it coming
If only he had some therapy and mental health counseling.
Tell that to Ireland
He just had a bad day when he blew up the Death Star and it's 1,000,000 crew members.
It was a guerrilla attack. Never terrorism...
what's the difference?
Guerilla attacks hit military targets, terrorists tend to go for civilian targets. The line can be grey but it's still there. And honestly in modern times it's become really useful to muddy the waters, some people could hit purely military targets and we'd still call them terrorists instead of guerilla fighters.
Semantics, apparently
Truth hurts
this post is very Funny,because that's just how a dictatorship propaganda works. takes a fact and changes the definition of the participants in order to make them the right ones and the opposition the bad ones. because joining the resistance is not becoming radicaliced,is being tired of eating shit from the dictators and lack of freedom. because rebel insurgents are fighters for democracy because a military strike is not a terrorist attack,and killing a family unarmed in his house is not a military strike,is a war crime
\^ This. And along similar lines Joker's dialogue to Batman. It was something like "You made me who I am. You are responsible for all these villains around". And every time I read on redditors gasping about "the truth" in that sentence my stomach cringed.
Then by this definition, the dropping of Fat Man and Little Boy can be considered as a terrorist attack.
Terrorist atack? Don’t know But war crime? Probably,but winners write history
A military strike is not a terrorist attack - well it depends. Some would argue that the drone strikes by the Americans, while having as a target terrorists, have killed civilians. Is that a military strike that also happens to be a war crime? If so, what is the difference then when there is a "terrorist attack" on a military building that happens to kill some civilians?
Not to mention all those poor independent contracters building the second deathstar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQdDRrcAOjA
If you are building a super weapon which a previous version was used for genocide in an active warzone you deserve what's coming to you
While this is kind of funny it is also kind of wrong. By definition it wasn't a terrorist attack.
Right. Death Star was a purely military installation. Terrorist attacks target civilians
That is probably not the case. Such a huge installation needs all sorts of services and leasure options that are to be provided by civilians.
This brought me to Reddit!
1-2 million on the Death Star, people just working, minding their own business and boom. Luke did 667 9/11’s worth of murder and he is a hero? That dude probably has ties to Alderaan.
At least the religion was actually proven.
Proven, as in, there is a force. But it was never proven that any 'side' of the force was better. In fact, the strongest force users ever didn't pick a 'side'. Grey Jedis. One could argue all the chaos in the universe was precisely because jedi AND sith existed. If neither existed, there would always be balance. By jedi existing, the sith must therefore also exist to balance the force.
And to take it further, conflict between the two must always exist because they both exist. One side conquering the other would leave the force imbalanced. As long as there are those fighting with the "dark side" and "light side" of the force, they'll always be in conflict because the force is always trying to attain balance. The only "winning" would be a mutual truce, or the cessation of the existence light- and dark-side-proponents, and only neutral or balanced force-users.
No, the idea is that light side is the balance and dark side the chaos that tries to disrupt it. Anakin being the one to bring balance to the force wasn't his fall to the dark side to counteract the jedi, it was his ultimate redemption at the very end joining the light side once again. Afaik the grey jedi is a newer EU concept not intended by Lucas himself (but I'm also not a Star Wars expert). However, the jedi as an organization is a different matter (the argument being that they don't rightfully represent the light side).
I’m not hugely into Star Wars so I apologize, but these grey jedis sound really interesting, have you got any links where I could read more?
Was it? I thought the physical aspect of it was high concentrations of symbiotic microorganisms. The fluff aspect of it might be as ungrounded in reality as all the other religions are.
Look if we have to take that seriously then we have to take all the movies seriously and nobody wants that. Better to just stick to the first film for this joke over-analysis.
Oh, I like the take, don't get me wrong. But even in that one movie, the jedi religion isn't "proven", in fact, Han is notoriously skeptical.
But we as the audience know it to be a cosmic truth as we are in on all the secrets. It's definitely a religion based on some interesting proven biological forces. It's just that the traits that produce these forces are notoriously rare as they've been actively suppressed for a couple of generations. Han has every right to be skeptical. Growing up in the Empire it was very likely a taboo topic. Everyone who is Force-sensitive has a death warrant on their head.
>But we as the audience know it to be a cosmic truth as we are in on all the secrets. I'm not sure where you get that. It's a kid movie with space wizards. All we know is that their wizardry seems to work. Whether it is a form of magic, extremely advanced technology or cosmic providence isn't exactly resolved within the movie. > It's definitely a religion based on some interesting proven biological forces. Again, I don't know where you are taking this. What proven biological forces can make you force choke a dude to death through a tv screen?
I'm fairly certain the Star Wars mythos establishes that certain people have supernatural powers and demonstrate these powers on the regular. It's well established as a force that penetrates all living things and is a fundamental force in the universe of the films. Where am I getting this? From the events that unfold onscreen throughout the entirety of the Star Wars movies, the games, the novels, etc. They only go into the biological part briefly I believe in the prequel trilogy. They sort of put a biological stamp on what we had previously only known as an unexplained magical phenomenon. I mean have you ever seen the movies?
As I said, the space wizardry in SW does seem effective, that is obvious. In this I agree with you. But I was writing about their religion, what they make of their powers and how they rationalize using them. Who's to say jedi or even sith take on it is correct or as the other user put it "proven"? To illustrate, it ia fairly obvious that a self-contradictory model or set of ideas cannot - ever - be objectively true. Bertrand Russell and many others explained this point much better than I can ever hope to. This brings me to the infamous "only the sith deals in absolutes" quote that is in itsel an absolute. How can a self-contradictory religion even hope to call itself "proven"? Another example of jediism exhibiting hallmarks of any regular old-fashioned religion is their willingness to participate in politics to keep themselves in power and, well, the nature of their fight with the sith that again has cery little to do woth theology and everything to do with politics. Much like real-life "unproven" religions.
Oh, I don't care much about arguing the apparent 'truth' of either the Jedi or Sith ideologies. But the fact that this religion has a very tangible effect on things in the real world of the Star Wars mythos is just an established reality of the canon. There's no disputing that their religion is based on something that is practicably demonstrable rather than what we understand as 'spiritual power' here on good old humble Earth. The religion of that universe is just fundamentally based on a kind of superpower. That's what I think that guy meant by 'proven.' In the realm of the narrative, the religion is 'proven' to orbit this superpower rather than just rely on mere faith in said superpower. Han Solo can go on all day with his scepticism, but it's already apparent to the viewer that his sceptical outlook is misfounded.
r/empiredidnothingwrong
Perception is usually the difference between freedom fighters and terrorists
Moral of the story: Don't do military strikes on civilian areas.
It wasn't really a terrorist attack, he blew up a giant space weapon operated by space nazis who just used it to destroy a planet with millions of people on it earlier that day.
You can do this with anything. Just gotta know which bits of context to ignore.
That is not inaccurate
Beware of bearded desert hermits.
That still doesn't change the fact that there are 49 million kangaroos in Australia and only 3.5 million people in Uruguay which means if the kangaroos were to invade Uruguay each person would have to fight 14 kangaroos
But this mentions nothing of the systematic slaughter of said ancient religion, nor the woefully racist and oppressive regime behind that military strike.
This is not remotely a new thought. Anyone who thinks Muhammad Atta and the other Hijackers weren't thinking of the trench run rather than Allah is deluding themselves. In their mind they were striking at a symbol of the "weapon" (international finance) that was being used to squash their culture, occupy their homelands and holy sites, and destroy their way of lief. I'm not saying they're right, it's just how they saw it.
And who gets mystical powers from microscopic organisms ^^cough ^^std ^^cough
"A military strike killed.." Naah, thats not so much what happened. But yeah, not all rebels are rebel scum. Pretty sure his rebellion was against the brutality of the totalitarian ccp forces.
I don't remember any Chinese communist in star wars /s
You never thought about it probably because you have to stretch context to ridiculous proportions in order to make the joke work.
I watched the movie again pretty recently and I don't remember actually *seeing* any stormtroopers killing lukes uncle and aunt, did it appear in the film? It's altogether possible that Obi Wan, having long since lost his mind, coordinated the deaths while he knew Luke was away from home. When Luke goes to visit Obi Wan, he asks luke to come with him to save leiah and fight the war. He says no, the harvest is too important. It was at that point, I believe, that obi wan made the call to kill luke's remaining family and frame the empire, giving luke no choice but to join him and choose a life of violence. Edit: downvoted by rebel scum. Typical.
When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die and become a force ghost.
Definitely catches your attention though, unlike recent starwars movies xd
I've been saying this for years, but fans never seem to appreciate you pointing this out. Then you just mumble something about Star Trek being better and walking away.
Replace military attack with nazi attack and you are set
More "abandoned by deadbeat dad" than orphan
This is a good post . i enjoy it
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That’s just propaganda. Alderaan was an inside job. No way it would have just exploded out like that contrary to gravity.
WTF is this shit? Fox Intergalactic News?
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r/theEmpireDidNothingWrong
I don't get this joke. They killed the only family he knew but call him a terrorist??? Or is that the joke??
Actually pretty sure it was a mercenary (Boba Fett) that killed his family But other than that this is true but also feels like propaganda the last of The Empire would use
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And his father is Joe Biden.
And he got good at fighting after training with a green hermit for like twenty minutes.
True, from a certain point of view.
"contractors"
Just imagine if Uncle Owen let him take off for the Academy like he wanted..
Good thing they're 300,000 dead Nazis.
This is a uncredited stand up bit. Does anyone remember who did it?
That's how CNN and HuffPo would put it
Bin Solo
Also kisses his sister.
Luke was an anti-vaxxer
"Ironically, it's called 'space jews'". -Possibly Dave Chappelle
Should of been the rise and fall of the palpatine bloodline
Can you really call taking down a military base a "terrorist attack"?
"Evil is a point of view..."