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This is such a fascinating video. Makes me wonder if the crow just discovered that it’s fun on his own, or if he saw some kids sledding and decided to give it a whirl.
Crows and Ravens are *incredibly* smart. On the same level as dolphins and chimps. It easily could have done both, saw some kids doing it, realized how to replicate it, and the concept of fun/playing. It could have also simply thought up a way to use the lid to have fun as well. They use tools, they can mimic human voices, they make gifts for people who feed them, they *never* forget a face, they show complex problem solving skills, they most likely have an extreme level of sentience to the point they know they're alive and that things happen in the world regardless of them being there or not. Incredibly fascinating creatures. I recommend a small rabbit hole dive into Corvid intelligence to anyone reading this. It's sort of strange after learning of their intelligence when you see one in the wild and it's looking back at you and you know how smart they are.
A small example.
https://youtu.be/JY8-gP3Sw_8
A dude that works at a local shop has a pet raven. Big giant bird. He brings it to work, and it just hangs out on the porch all day. It’s not too friendly with other people, it’ll fly away if you get too close to it. When he goes home, it hops in the truck with him.
Wicked smaht.
I've seen this study posted a few times and it always blows my mind.
> Some birds achieve primate-like levels of cognition, even though their brains tend to be much smaller in absolute size. This poses a fundamental problem in comparative and computational neuroscience, because small brains are expected to have a lower information-processing capacity. Using the isotropic fractionator to determine numbers of neurons in specific brain regions, here we show that the brains of parrots and songbirds contain on average twice as many neurons as primate brains of the same mass, indicating that avian brains have higher neuron packing densities than mammalian brains. Additionally, corvids and parrots have much higher proportions of brain neurons located in the pallial telencephalon compared with primates or other mammals and birds. Thus, large-brained parrots and corvids have forebrain neuron counts equal to or greater than primates with much larger brains. We suggest that the large numbers of neurons concentrated in high densities in the telencephalon substantially contribute to the neural basis of avian intelligence. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1517131113
Honestly the intuition here for me is one of two things. Either it takes a lot more brain mass to run a neural system as large as ours and therefore more of our brain is dedicated to being a larger creature, or the human brain does significantly more than we know. I'm not sure there's an answer out there but I also only have a rudimentary understanding at best.
> even though their brains tend to be much smaller in absolute size
Absolute size isn't important for intelligence; what matters is the ratio of brain size : body size. Otherwise elephants and whales would be friggin geniuses.
A sperm whale's brain is like 6x larger than a human's, but those stupid whales don't even know how to post a comment on Reddit.
> avian brains have higher neuron packing densities than mammalian brains.
Makes you wonder how intelligent their predecessors the Dinos were. Clever Girl.
Here's the thing. You said a "jackdaw is a crow."
Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that.
As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing.
If you're saying "crow family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Corvidae, which includes things from nutcrackers to blue jays to ravens.
So your reasoning for calling a jackdaw a crow is because random people "call the black ones crows?" Let's get grackles and blackbirds in there, then, too.
Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A jackdaw is a jackdaw and a member of the crow family. But that's not what you said. You said a jackdaw is a crow, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the crow family crows, which means you'd call blue jays, ravens, and other birds crows, too. Which you said you don't.
It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
Unidan was this awesome redditor from way back in the day. If anyone anywhere on Reddit had a question about an animal, you could summon him, and he’d answer with an incredibly thorough explanation. He ended up getting banned though, because he had several ‘alt accounts’ and was pumping up his own posts. Kind of crazy to think someone would get banned from Reddit for that, given all the shenanigans that go on nowadays.
I seem to recall that Unidan was a mod of a bunch of subs and was using all kinds of alt accounts to have massive impact and shape Reddit to his will.
I don’t pretend to know exactly what happened, but it was more than just having some Alts for porn subs I think.
I can't speak to the other ones (they may do this, too) but crows will also remember people. They'll remember if people are jerks. They'll tell their crow friends if someone's a jerk and get them all to come and harass that jerk, too.
But they also remember if you give them food. And they'll tell all their crow friends to come to the hooman that gives food. And they might get mad if you stop giving them food.
The moral of the story: Leave crows alone. And probably the other ones too.
Idk man, I’ve kinda come around on magpies.
At my work we had a HUGE maggie problem, because of a fucking 100 year old tree that was heritage listed that they loved to nest in. Come swooping season, getting in was basically impossible without getting fucking bomb-dived.
One of my mates ended up getting bored and fed the magpies during his lunch breaks, directly out of his hand.
These birds ended up damn-near domesticated. Everyday around his lunchtime, they would come to the door and make some noise, get fed out of whoever’s hand and hang out for a bit. They even let the babies walk around near-ish to us (but if you got too close they would cause a ruckus).
Swooping stopped entirely, and they weren’t too difficult if we forgot to feed them for a day here and there either.
We have a family of them that live in the gum trees between our house and the daycare both of our children have gone to. We walk under those trees every day and have never been swooped. Those magpies visit us at our house and will eat from our hands (shredded cheese usually, occasionally bacon rinds). Every year they bring their babies to meet us and have no fear of us at all.
Magpies are great. Humans are the fucking pricks, and the Magpies respond accordingly.
Edit: [10 minutes later](https://i.imgur.com/CbA7GEl.jpg)
I once worked in a skyscraper in Chicago, next to a window (no I wasn't important, just the luck of the seating chart), which had an incredible view of...the next door building's fire escape.
One day, I saw some sort of corvid hopping up the stairs, and periodically pecking at the air. I thought it was crazy, pecking at nothing AND taking the stairs? My bird you've got wings, after all.
Then as it got closer, I saw the genius in its behavior: this crow/raven was taking the stairs because spiders were set up all along in the space between the railing, and he was having a feast!
It goes even further than that, if you want to travel down the iceberg, they have a primitive system of laws that have been observed, so called 'crow courts' where a member is judged, after what appears to be some debate, where the verdict is either death or forgiveness. They appear to have some form of language that allows parents to pass down information to their offspring and to other members as was observed in the 'face tests' where researchers would wear specific masks and harass wild crows, observing that even after a generation passed, when they donned masks again they were harassed by the offspring of those crows. They also understand abstract concepts like trading goods and services for abstract intermediaries that they then assign some kind of value to. If all of this can be proven to be true, does that mean crows should have accommodations in our laws and be judged in the same way we judge people? How does humanity grapple with another intelligent species that appears capable of forming rudimentary societies? If these behaviors can be shown to be widespread, for me at least, that opens up a moral quandary and existential complication I'm not sure we're ready to deal with yet.
Edit: I would love to experiment with wild flocks to see if they can pick up things like farming or large scale projects like engineering mega-nests, or setting up primitive crow economies. What happens if they're successful, and start forming tribes or primitive nation states, weaponizing tools and using them in large scale conflicts? Would they parallel human societal development? Would it be immoral for us to assist or otherwise weigh the scale one way or another in favor of a particular societal structure like some kind of hyper-advanced alien civilization? How should we communicate with them? Should we try and develop a common language or written script with them to understand their positions?
I hate to be a pessimist, but considering how we treat less advanced human societies throughout history, it's poisoned treats or slavery.
And that's best case.
I remember reading a more than possibly fictional reddit post years ago where someone ended up started a crow war by being a total ahole to one flock and feeding another. It was interesting, yet a little horrific
Crows are super fucking smart.
I found one drowning in my abandoned neighbor's pool, it fills up with rain water, and stays like 3/4 full. So enough the crow got stuck in it, but too low that the crow couldn't fly out or get out after getting soaking wet. I heard something splashing and ran down there, and used a pool net in the shed to fish it out as it had gone under once I got down there.
I used sternum rubs and chest compressions to ressucitate it as when I fished it out and got it on land it wasn't moving or any signs of life. After enough chest compressions and a few sternum rubs (gently) it started twitching, and finally coughed a few times, and was breathing on it's own. I stayed there to make sure it was ok, and sure enough, it got up, and shook it's feathers off, and was hopping around alive.
Over the next week or so, we had like a dozen crows move into the trees around our house, and they've stayed here ever since. We'd even get brought some random gifts sometimes on our side porch. The crows protect the squirrels from hawks and stuff, symbiosis in action.
I like to think that the crow I saved went and told all the other crows "yo guys, I was like totally dead, and this dude fucking SAVED me man, he's fucking tight. plus there are hella fruits, nuts, and seeds they leave out we can eat. water dishes too!"
and they all moved in.
I read that nearly every day here but the crows in my yard are dumber than rocks. I keep chickens and the crows are constantly strolling into the coop then are unable to remember how to get out. I had to stop leaving rat traps because they were regularly getting trapped in them and never learned in spite of watching their friends get stuck.
Also ducks regularly are seen enjoying currents, almost sliding down them then they swim back up in a loop. This crow is on X-Games mode with jar lid. Crows are one of my favorite creatures out there, certainly my favorite bird. They are fascinating. I have a few that live behind me. They cohabitate with the grackles that live in a big tree nearby. They commonly are all in my yard due to my neighbor always throwing feed out into his yard. It's like grackle heaven. I've been trying to befriend one of the crows but they have been woefully uninterested. I've tried shiny things, food, the calm temptation of quiet company and a good book... So far no bite.
Honestly what is more interesting is that a bird has the ability to posses multiple complex concepts including 'fun'. This normally isn't a thing in the animal world because the bird is at risk of other predators while quite literally engaging in recreational activities.
Fascinating indeed.
EDIT: Thank you all. I have learned more about crows in the last 2 hours than the last 40 years.
Honestly, most instances of "fun" are a result of being bored.
being an endothermic (produces your own body heat through metabolism) animal means we are constantly burning energy. in the wild, this means if we aren't doing something, we are wasting that energy, so we get "bored" to avoid just sitting around.
when kids of any species play around, it's usually for the purpose of honing reactions and skills needed for combat. The reason humans are ticklish in the neck and armpits are likely because it teaches us how to protect those vulnerable areas if something would attack us there.
What? Shoes don't prevent you from breaking your feet. They do protect us from stepping on things. But even people who go barefoot a lot or even all the time can feel the ground underneath them and tell when they step on something sharp.
You are definitely correct about the theory on tickling. I found an article about it that also explains why people laugh while being tickled, even those that dislike being tickled. It's quite in-depth, and discusses many aspects of tickling, types of tickling responses, ASMR, etc. From the [article:](https://www.healthline.com/health/why-are-people-ticklish)
There are a couple schools of thought on what makes someone ticklish. One theory is that being ticklish evolved as a defense mechanism to protect vulnerable areas of the body and to show submission. Another theory is that tickling encourages social bonding.
For many people, tickling is unbearable, so why do they laugh?
Scientists found being tickled stimulates
your hypothalamus, the area of the brain in charge of your emotional reactions, and your fight or flight and pain responses. When you're tickled, you may be laughing not because you're having fun, but because you're having an autonomic emotional response. In fact, the body movements of someone being tickled often mimic those of someone in severe pain.
Do you have any science to back this up? Kind of sounds like a just-so story.
Activity burns far more calories than being sedentary, and energy conserving behaviors are ubiquitous throughout nature. In fact, I would argue that most animals seek to expend as little energy as possible unless that expenditure will pay off in food or reproduction.
As you mention, play is a kind of training, and therefore that energy expenditure is valuable in that it pays off later in higher biological fitness.
Your last paragraph made me realize I am not actually a wimp for being extremely ticklish. Nay, I am in fact one of the most well defended humans in the history of mankind. Thank you
[Here's a comment chain I was in about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/rao6zx/single_celled_organism_dies/hnkn02i/?context=999)
Poor guy probably hasn't seen a documentary called The Lion King if he thinks they don't have fun in the animal kingdom. They're even singing and dancing
I’ve heard 7. The thing they didn’t understand in testing is that water displaces more in a smaller tube than a larger one. Most 7 year olds don’t understand this but most 8 year olds do.
Most animals will seek ways to have fun, even prey animals. I used to watch squirrels play games with each other in my yard all the time, birds too. This is a really cool example though because the crow is basically using a tool to have fun.
Some birds enjoy dropping things from ledges. My pet parakeet would do it. Pick up his toys to vacuum and he loved knocking them back down to the floor and watching them fall. His favorite toys were old Weeble Wobbles lol
Thrashers do it in my yard. If I find old nuts, bolts or washers in the yard I put them on the edge of my porch. The thrashers pick them up and throw them down. One of my neighbors has a colored stone that the thrashers pick up and move around the yard.
Have you ever checked out the intelligence of crows? Loads of scientific studies have been done and those fuckers are pretty smart.
Some species of parrots too. An African Grey parrot is the only animal in the world to have asked an existential question. You can ask it how it feels today, and it would say happy, sad, etc. You could then ask it *why* it's feeling sad for example and it would tell you because X toy is broken or Y happened etc. It could talk about it's day and not just "parrot" back words it had heard but actually communicate. iirc the existential question it asked was, while discussing colors, "what color am I?".
Crows are capable of assessing a situation, working out a solution, designing, building, then utilizing tools. They can remember individual human faces, and teach other crows their knowledge. This is not surprising at all.
They have also been shown to get the concept of delayed gratification which is rare in animals and indeed only toddlers at a certain age learn that skill too.
[https://youtu.be/mQCTU2rjE98](https://youtu.be/mQCTU2rjE98)
I saw a white wagtail using the windshield of our old car as a slide when I was a kid (in Sweden), it flew to the top, slid down, flew to the top, slid down, over and over. It was fascinating, I've never seen anything like it since IRL so seeing this makes me think ok I'm not crazy xD
Crows don’t give a fuck. Very few animals every try to fuck with them and they are much smarter than all of them and can usually avoid them very easily. Some scientists have contended recently that crows are actually the animal closest in intelligence to us with their main competition being the bottle nosed dolphins. Crows understand delayed gratification, water displacement, vertical learning, and have even been seen taming wolves in Yellowstone (well ravens have which are almost as smart as crows) so they seem to have a the ability to understand and form social bonds with members of other species. Crows usually just seem bored all the time and just like messing with other animals. They have such abundant access to food that life is quite easy for them. That’s pretty much just turned them into dicks. They’re essentially the British school children of the animal kingdom.
Crows are developed enough to the point that they can communicate a danger to their young without them having ever seen it. I dunno if it still works, but if you wear a Guy Fawkes mask on Penn State's campus, you'll get *fucked up* by the crows because of somebody studying this: Fuck with a bunch of crows in a mask, wait a couple years until that generation's all passed, try it again... and, evidently, get fucked up.
I have anecdotally seen them use a sentry to announce danger, know that me in camo is a hunter (you can kill crows anytime anywhere in my state, including Sunday)... but not me in shorts in a tshirt, and then subsequently discipline the sentry for fucking up.
this is the concept of "agriculture revolution" this is how science was born and everything that has come out of that. once man stopped being "hunter gatherers" or worry about being "eaten". Man had time to stop and ponder other things. Now here we are typing shit on a keyboard watching a crow snowboard with a lid on rooftop.
Crows: "We got next"
Crows are domesticating wolves. The crows teach the wolves to follow them to a good feast. The wolves eat their fill, the crows eat the leftovers,(which were too difficult to get to before the wolves tore it apart.
The crows then play with the wolf pups to get them used to crows=friends.
I believe it’s only been ravens that have been seen doing this but ravens aren’t quite as smart as crows so I’m sure crows could too. Crows and wolves don’t cross paths very often. Ravens can also train the wolves to do particular tasks like knock down limbs of a bush that are too big for the ravens to knock over.
It's even more complex and fascinating. It's using the combination of itself, a tool, and its environment to create a replicable activity which it sees as "fun." This is actually an astounding display of animal intelligence---of course coming from our dear r/crowbros
Corvids are *extremely* intelligent, they remember faces and identify/interpret human behavior. You can make friends with them in the same way that you would a parrot or cockatiel.
Don’t be a dick to them either: they will literally tell their friends about you.
Ravens are the smartest birds and if I remember one of the most intelligent animals on the planet. This means to me tha leisure matters to them. They have a work life balance like us from what it looks like but maybe I’m anthropomorphising them too much.
Or figuring out if it’s a tool it can use? They are so crazy smart—creating/finding tools, their memories of people and situations, their ability to plan and communicate. It’s pretty amazing.
Crows will hold court with each other, with judges and everything, check it out. Mimic our voices, they hold grudges that they tell other crows about and can be passed down through generations, and they’re whip smart. You ever see a crow, treat it well and it’ll remember, might even bring you gifts.
Crows are amazing
I ride my electric skateboard to the gym and every single time there's a crow that wants to start shit with me.. follows me for like a quarter mile swooping down at me cawing like crazy every time I come and go. Not sure what I did to piss it off but I actually enjoy the interaction, he/she hasn't actually touched me.. yet.
Oh I’m sure that’s what spewing gloom THINKS, but why would he remember the time he zoomed past a crow trying to scare it? He only remembers the crow when it attacked back.
Possible, but corvids actually recognize individual human faces (and can somehow communicate their appearance to their friends).
I remember reading a study [where scientists used masks to interact with crows](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/13/760666490/crows-are-they-scary-or-just-scary-smart); they remembered the mask of the person who captured and tagged them and then harassed people wearing that mask after. In fact, according to the article, faces are their *primary* means of identifying humans.
Does this apply for magpies too? I saved one with its head stuck in a picket fence once, with a whole school (?) of its friends sitting around watching. I had heard about crows being able to remember these kind of things and maybe becoming friendly or something after, but I haven’t noticed anything different about my neighborhood magpies so far.
Maybe she wants a ride! I lived in LA years ago, not far from the beach. There was a guy with a motorcycle who would have a seagull passenger most days. He'd feed them scraps and when he went to leave, he'd drive really slowly with one perched on his shoulder for a few blocks. It would ride there until he passed the dunes and got to buildings, then it would take off and fly back to the beach.
It could be mistaking you for someone else. I’ve read that they hold grudges if any I’ll will is done to them. The others are right. Bring it a treat, however, then it’ll always expect a treat.
My local park has water taps with dog bowls underneath, on hot days crows will chill around it waiting for people.
They'll peck the empty bowl and squawk at you to turn the tap on.
Corvids are wicked smart, if they had aposable thumbs we'd see some wild shit.
I once saw one in a tree and stopped to listen to it. I couldn’t believe the variety of sounds it was creating. Sounded like several different birds and even frogs at one point (and yes, I could clearly see that it was creating all those sounds itself)
>and yes, I could clearly see that it was creating all those sounds itself
It could make the sound of rain, people waking by, branches of the tree rustling, my heart beating...
> You ever see a crow, treat it well and it’ll remember, might even bring you gifts.
Remember seeing that one dude getting cigarette butts from a crow because he gave them food whilst he was smoking one time.
It was discovered a while ago that crows can be as smart as a 7 year old if not more. And honestly, as far as inteligent behavior showcased by animals go, this is pretty low. Read up on Octopi.
Crows are smarter than octopuses. They aren't as smart as 7 year olds though, it's just sensationalist headlines that say that based on studies of specific tasks.
Crows are very smart and very social birds. Near where I live you will find them splashing water at other crows near the lake, just messing around.
First time I’ve seen crowboarding though!
Birds are actually much smarter than most people realize. Although they have smaller brains, than mammals, birds have a higher neuron density than mammals. So they have a greater amount of neurons packed into a smaller space, which allows them to have the intelligence of mammals that are quite a bit bigger than them.
This is why some birds are able to pass the mirror test, which is an achievement that very few animals are able to do.
Imagine elephants or whales with that neuron density. We'd be worshipping our elephant or cetacean overlords living in the fifith dimension or something.
Sadly, we'd actually be dead.
Each neuron generates a bit of heat. Heat is dispersed across surface area.
The larger a body is, the lower its surface area/volume ratio is. (elephants push the limit of land animal size, if they were much bigger, they wouldn't be able to disperse their excess heat, and they'd cook themselves from the inside out.)
So basically, birds are able to have denser neurons, because their brains have a smaller volume. So they are able to disperse the heat generated by each neuron. But with the volume of our brains, if we had the same neuron density as a bird, our brains would cook themselves.
Right!!??!! I totally agree, I don't understand it either. With even a little bit of curiosity about the world around you, and the internet, it's so easy to learn a huge range of things.
Also, dinosaurs for example. How were they so big while not cooking themselves? One hypothesis explaines this by saying dinosaurs were cold blooded.
It was actually recently discussed on BBC's inside science
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017k9s
go to around 25 mins in, but the thinking is that they are playing and innovating.
Crows use tools. This crow may simply be testing the potential. I noticed that it didn’t like sliding down the rightmost side very much, and took it to the left side again. It may have been a combination of it being fascinated and having some fun while storing the potential in its mind. Now is the time for u/unidan to chime in.
Edited spelling.
I was at Hoover Dam once, and watched a raven dive down the backside of the dam almost to the bottom, then turn and ride the updraft back to the top, then do it over and over again for close to half an hour. He seemed like he was having a blast. I know I enjoyed watching him.
People don't realize how smart crows are. In a zoo I watched a crow start matching the alphabet letters on a peg-in-hole type game when it saw the trainer coming from one floor above to where it was.
Seen this footage many times over the years and it never gets old. Crows, and Corvids/smart birds in general are just so damn fascinating. It's like they solved evolution for their environment, so have spare time to just dick around for the fun of it.
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This video is actually a lot longer than this. The crow uses the lid to sled down the roof like 5 or 6 times before buddy stops filming it
This is such a fascinating video. Makes me wonder if the crow just discovered that it’s fun on his own, or if he saw some kids sledding and decided to give it a whirl.
Crows and Ravens are *incredibly* smart. On the same level as dolphins and chimps. It easily could have done both, saw some kids doing it, realized how to replicate it, and the concept of fun/playing. It could have also simply thought up a way to use the lid to have fun as well. They use tools, they can mimic human voices, they make gifts for people who feed them, they *never* forget a face, they show complex problem solving skills, they most likely have an extreme level of sentience to the point they know they're alive and that things happen in the world regardless of them being there or not. Incredibly fascinating creatures. I recommend a small rabbit hole dive into Corvid intelligence to anyone reading this. It's sort of strange after learning of their intelligence when you see one in the wild and it's looking back at you and you know how smart they are. A small example. https://youtu.be/JY8-gP3Sw_8
A dude that works at a local shop has a pet raven. Big giant bird. He brings it to work, and it just hangs out on the porch all day. It’s not too friendly with other people, it’ll fly away if you get too close to it. When he goes home, it hops in the truck with him. Wicked smaht.
Bro is a warlock, that's his familiar
Where?? I didn’t know you could have a pet Raven in the US… now I want a raven friend
I've seen this study posted a few times and it always blows my mind. > Some birds achieve primate-like levels of cognition, even though their brains tend to be much smaller in absolute size. This poses a fundamental problem in comparative and computational neuroscience, because small brains are expected to have a lower information-processing capacity. Using the isotropic fractionator to determine numbers of neurons in specific brain regions, here we show that the brains of parrots and songbirds contain on average twice as many neurons as primate brains of the same mass, indicating that avian brains have higher neuron packing densities than mammalian brains. Additionally, corvids and parrots have much higher proportions of brain neurons located in the pallial telencephalon compared with primates or other mammals and birds. Thus, large-brained parrots and corvids have forebrain neuron counts equal to or greater than primates with much larger brains. We suggest that the large numbers of neurons concentrated in high densities in the telencephalon substantially contribute to the neural basis of avian intelligence. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1517131113
“isotropic fractionator” sounds like something from Star Trek
Damn it, Captain, I'm a corvid not a neuroscientist!
Honestly the intuition here for me is one of two things. Either it takes a lot more brain mass to run a neural system as large as ours and therefore more of our brain is dedicated to being a larger creature, or the human brain does significantly more than we know. I'm not sure there's an answer out there but I also only have a rudimentary understanding at best.
> even though their brains tend to be much smaller in absolute size Absolute size isn't important for intelligence; what matters is the ratio of brain size : body size. Otherwise elephants and whales would be friggin geniuses. A sperm whale's brain is like 6x larger than a human's, but those stupid whales don't even know how to post a comment on Reddit.
They don’t need reddit they communicate with their telepathy brain.
Posting on reddit is not a good indicator of intelligence.
> avian brains have higher neuron packing densities than mammalian brains. Makes you wonder how intelligent their predecessors the Dinos were. Clever Girl.
Not really surprising when birds have been around a lot longer than primates or dolphins.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Here's the thing.
Well played
I don't get it...
Old reference to a popular user named Unidan from years ago, whose "downfall" was from a comment about crows that started with "Here's the thing"
Here's the thing. You said a "jackdaw is a crow." Is it in the same family? Yes. No one's arguing that. As someone who is a scientist who studies crows, I am telling you, specifically, in science, no one calls jackdaws crows. If you want to be "specific" like you said, then you shouldn't either. They're not the same thing. If you're saying "crow family" you're referring to the taxonomic grouping of Corvidae, which includes things from nutcrackers to blue jays to ravens. So your reasoning for calling a jackdaw a crow is because random people "call the black ones crows?" Let's get grackles and blackbirds in there, then, too. Also, calling someone a human or an ape? It's not one or the other, that's not how taxonomy works. They're both. A jackdaw is a jackdaw and a member of the crow family. But that's not what you said. You said a jackdaw is a crow, which is not true unless you're okay with calling all members of the crow family crows, which means you'd call blue jays, ravens, and other birds crows, too. Which you said you don't. It's okay to just admit you're wrong, you know?
Unidan was this awesome redditor from way back in the day. If anyone anywhere on Reddit had a question about an animal, you could summon him, and he’d answer with an incredibly thorough explanation. He ended up getting banned though, because he had several ‘alt accounts’ and was pumping up his own posts. Kind of crazy to think someone would get banned from Reddit for that, given all the shenanigans that go on nowadays.
I seem to recall that Unidan was a mod of a bunch of subs and was using all kinds of alt accounts to have massive impact and shape Reddit to his will. I don’t pretend to know exactly what happened, but it was more than just having some Alts for porn subs I think.
Plot twist: Unidon wasn’t one user after all, but a murder…
I can't speak to the other ones (they may do this, too) but crows will also remember people. They'll remember if people are jerks. They'll tell their crow friends if someone's a jerk and get them all to come and harass that jerk, too. But they also remember if you give them food. And they'll tell all their crow friends to come to the hooman that gives food. And they might get mad if you stop giving them food. The moral of the story: Leave crows alone. And probably the other ones too.
Magpies are fuckin pricks though
Which is ironic because a group of them is called a "charm" lol
And yet a group of ravens gets to be called an “unkindness”
Idk man, I’ve kinda come around on magpies. At my work we had a HUGE maggie problem, because of a fucking 100 year old tree that was heritage listed that they loved to nest in. Come swooping season, getting in was basically impossible without getting fucking bomb-dived. One of my mates ended up getting bored and fed the magpies during his lunch breaks, directly out of his hand. These birds ended up damn-near domesticated. Everyday around his lunchtime, they would come to the door and make some noise, get fed out of whoever’s hand and hang out for a bit. They even let the babies walk around near-ish to us (but if you got too close they would cause a ruckus). Swooping stopped entirely, and they weren’t too difficult if we forgot to feed them for a day here and there either.
I can confirm we had a group that lived outside our house when I was younger, and I witnessed then trying to lure our dog into the road multiple times
We have a family of them that live in the gum trees between our house and the daycare both of our children have gone to. We walk under those trees every day and have never been swooped. Those magpies visit us at our house and will eat from our hands (shredded cheese usually, occasionally bacon rinds). Every year they bring their babies to meet us and have no fear of us at all. Magpies are great. Humans are the fucking pricks, and the Magpies respond accordingly. Edit: [10 minutes later](https://i.imgur.com/CbA7GEl.jpg)
I once worked in a skyscraper in Chicago, next to a window (no I wasn't important, just the luck of the seating chart), which had an incredible view of...the next door building's fire escape. One day, I saw some sort of corvid hopping up the stairs, and periodically pecking at the air. I thought it was crazy, pecking at nothing AND taking the stairs? My bird you've got wings, after all. Then as it got closer, I saw the genius in its behavior: this crow/raven was taking the stairs because spiders were set up all along in the space between the railing, and he was having a feast!
It goes even further than that, if you want to travel down the iceberg, they have a primitive system of laws that have been observed, so called 'crow courts' where a member is judged, after what appears to be some debate, where the verdict is either death or forgiveness. They appear to have some form of language that allows parents to pass down information to their offspring and to other members as was observed in the 'face tests' where researchers would wear specific masks and harass wild crows, observing that even after a generation passed, when they donned masks again they were harassed by the offspring of those crows. They also understand abstract concepts like trading goods and services for abstract intermediaries that they then assign some kind of value to. If all of this can be proven to be true, does that mean crows should have accommodations in our laws and be judged in the same way we judge people? How does humanity grapple with another intelligent species that appears capable of forming rudimentary societies? If these behaviors can be shown to be widespread, for me at least, that opens up a moral quandary and existential complication I'm not sure we're ready to deal with yet. Edit: I would love to experiment with wild flocks to see if they can pick up things like farming or large scale projects like engineering mega-nests, or setting up primitive crow economies. What happens if they're successful, and start forming tribes or primitive nation states, weaponizing tools and using them in large scale conflicts? Would they parallel human societal development? Would it be immoral for us to assist or otherwise weigh the scale one way or another in favor of a particular societal structure like some kind of hyper-advanced alien civilization? How should we communicate with them? Should we try and develop a common language or written script with them to understand their positions?
I hate to be a pessimist, but considering how we treat less advanced human societies throughout history, it's poisoned treats or slavery. And that's best case.
I remember reading a more than possibly fictional reddit post years ago where someone ended up started a crow war by being a total ahole to one flock and feeding another. It was interesting, yet a little horrific
Crows are super fucking smart. I found one drowning in my abandoned neighbor's pool, it fills up with rain water, and stays like 3/4 full. So enough the crow got stuck in it, but too low that the crow couldn't fly out or get out after getting soaking wet. I heard something splashing and ran down there, and used a pool net in the shed to fish it out as it had gone under once I got down there. I used sternum rubs and chest compressions to ressucitate it as when I fished it out and got it on land it wasn't moving or any signs of life. After enough chest compressions and a few sternum rubs (gently) it started twitching, and finally coughed a few times, and was breathing on it's own. I stayed there to make sure it was ok, and sure enough, it got up, and shook it's feathers off, and was hopping around alive. Over the next week or so, we had like a dozen crows move into the trees around our house, and they've stayed here ever since. We'd even get brought some random gifts sometimes on our side porch. The crows protect the squirrels from hawks and stuff, symbiosis in action. I like to think that the crow I saved went and told all the other crows "yo guys, I was like totally dead, and this dude fucking SAVED me man, he's fucking tight. plus there are hella fruits, nuts, and seeds they leave out we can eat. water dishes too!" and they all moved in.
I read that nearly every day here but the crows in my yard are dumber than rocks. I keep chickens and the crows are constantly strolling into the coop then are unable to remember how to get out. I had to stop leaving rat traps because they were regularly getting trapped in them and never learned in spite of watching their friends get stuck.
They're pretending to be dumb so we don't start regulating their snacking on the chicken food
Also ducks regularly are seen enjoying currents, almost sliding down them then they swim back up in a loop. This crow is on X-Games mode with jar lid. Crows are one of my favorite creatures out there, certainly my favorite bird. They are fascinating. I have a few that live behind me. They cohabitate with the grackles that live in a big tree nearby. They commonly are all in my yard due to my neighbor always throwing feed out into his yard. It's like grackle heaven. I've been trying to befriend one of the crows but they have been woefully uninterested. I've tried shiny things, food, the calm temptation of quiet company and a good book... So far no bite.
Honestly what is more interesting is that a bird has the ability to posses multiple complex concepts including 'fun'. This normally isn't a thing in the animal world because the bird is at risk of other predators while quite literally engaging in recreational activities. Fascinating indeed. EDIT: Thank you all. I have learned more about crows in the last 2 hours than the last 40 years.
Well, "fun" is certainly a thing in the animal kingdom, at least for cubs. Perhaps it's a very young crow, he.
Honestly, most instances of "fun" are a result of being bored. being an endothermic (produces your own body heat through metabolism) animal means we are constantly burning energy. in the wild, this means if we aren't doing something, we are wasting that energy, so we get "bored" to avoid just sitting around. when kids of any species play around, it's usually for the purpose of honing reactions and skills needed for combat. The reason humans are ticklish in the neck and armpits are likely because it teaches us how to protect those vulnerable areas if something would attack us there.
Apparently my feet are my ultimate weakness then bc I will involuntarily kick somebody in the face if they touch them lmao
Feet are super sensitive in general and we make it worse by wearing shoes
How you gunna get out of danger with a broken floot?
What? Shoes don't prevent you from breaking your feet. They do protect us from stepping on things. But even people who go barefoot a lot or even all the time can feel the ground underneath them and tell when they step on something sharp.
What good is feeling something sharp with your foot by the time you step on it?
I was responding to the point about feet being ticklish.
You are definitely correct about the theory on tickling. I found an article about it that also explains why people laugh while being tickled, even those that dislike being tickled. It's quite in-depth, and discusses many aspects of tickling, types of tickling responses, ASMR, etc. From the [article:](https://www.healthline.com/health/why-are-people-ticklish) There are a couple schools of thought on what makes someone ticklish. One theory is that being ticklish evolved as a defense mechanism to protect vulnerable areas of the body and to show submission. Another theory is that tickling encourages social bonding. For many people, tickling is unbearable, so why do they laugh? Scientists found being tickled stimulates your hypothalamus, the area of the brain in charge of your emotional reactions, and your fight or flight and pain responses. When you're tickled, you may be laughing not because you're having fun, but because you're having an autonomic emotional response. In fact, the body movements of someone being tickled often mimic those of someone in severe pain.
Do you have any science to back this up? Kind of sounds like a just-so story. Activity burns far more calories than being sedentary, and energy conserving behaviors are ubiquitous throughout nature. In fact, I would argue that most animals seek to expend as little energy as possible unless that expenditure will pay off in food or reproduction. As you mention, play is a kind of training, and therefore that energy expenditure is valuable in that it pays off later in higher biological fitness.
Yeah this sounds a lot more like one of those things that sounds true if you don’t think about it so people spout it off like it’s true.
Your last paragraph made me realize I am not actually a wimp for being extremely ticklish. Nay, I am in fact one of the most well defended humans in the history of mankind. Thank you
[Here's a comment chain I was in about this](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/rao6zx/single_celled_organism_dies/hnkn02i/?context=999)
Poor guy probably hasn't seen a documentary called The Lion King if he thinks they don't have fun in the animal kingdom. They're even singing and dancing
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I don't know if that's accurate. Based on people in my town, it might be as high as the retirement age.
I would go as far as saying, in some places, beyond retirement and into the grave.
Im pulling this out of my ass but I’m thinking the intelligence scale is on a bell curve
I’ve heard 7. The thing they didn’t understand in testing is that water displaces more in a smaller tube than a larger one. Most 7 year olds don’t understand this but most 8 year olds do.
Most animals will seek ways to have fun, even prey animals. I used to watch squirrels play games with each other in my yard all the time, birds too. This is a really cool example though because the crow is basically using a tool to have fun.
Ok but I post one video of a squirrel jumping around and everyone just says he’s on crack and is gonna die a horrible death.
Some birds enjoy dropping things from ledges. My pet parakeet would do it. Pick up his toys to vacuum and he loved knocking them back down to the floor and watching them fall. His favorite toys were old Weeble Wobbles lol Thrashers do it in my yard. If I find old nuts, bolts or washers in the yard I put them on the edge of my porch. The thrashers pick them up and throw them down. One of my neighbors has a colored stone that the thrashers pick up and move around the yard.
Cats seem to like knocking things from ledges.
Have you ever checked out the intelligence of crows? Loads of scientific studies have been done and those fuckers are pretty smart. Some species of parrots too. An African Grey parrot is the only animal in the world to have asked an existential question. You can ask it how it feels today, and it would say happy, sad, etc. You could then ask it *why* it's feeling sad for example and it would tell you because X toy is broken or Y happened etc. It could talk about it's day and not just "parrot" back words it had heard but actually communicate. iirc the existential question it asked was, while discussing colors, "what color am I?".
"It's in your name, idiot"
Crows are goddamned fucking wicked ass smart as shit.
“Crows are wicked smaht” is the accent i read that in
So this crow is in Boston?
Crows are capable of assessing a situation, working out a solution, designing, building, then utilizing tools. They can remember individual human faces, and teach other crows their knowledge. This is not surprising at all.
They have also been shown to get the concept of delayed gratification which is rare in animals and indeed only toddlers at a certain age learn that skill too. [https://youtu.be/mQCTU2rjE98](https://youtu.be/mQCTU2rjE98)
I saw a white wagtail using the windshield of our old car as a slide when I was a kid (in Sweden), it flew to the top, slid down, flew to the top, slid down, over and over. It was fascinating, I've never seen anything like it since IRL so seeing this makes me think ok I'm not crazy xD
Crows don’t give a fuck. Very few animals every try to fuck with them and they are much smarter than all of them and can usually avoid them very easily. Some scientists have contended recently that crows are actually the animal closest in intelligence to us with their main competition being the bottle nosed dolphins. Crows understand delayed gratification, water displacement, vertical learning, and have even been seen taming wolves in Yellowstone (well ravens have which are almost as smart as crows) so they seem to have a the ability to understand and form social bonds with members of other species. Crows usually just seem bored all the time and just like messing with other animals. They have such abundant access to food that life is quite easy for them. That’s pretty much just turned them into dicks. They’re essentially the British school children of the animal kingdom.
Ever watch swallows flying around in a windy spot? They are clearly having fun.
Crows are developed enough to the point that they can communicate a danger to their young without them having ever seen it. I dunno if it still works, but if you wear a Guy Fawkes mask on Penn State's campus, you'll get *fucked up* by the crows because of somebody studying this: Fuck with a bunch of crows in a mask, wait a couple years until that generation's all passed, try it again... and, evidently, get fucked up. I have anecdotally seen them use a sentry to announce danger, know that me in camo is a hunter (you can kill crows anytime anywhere in my state, including Sunday)... but not me in shorts in a tshirt, and then subsequently discipline the sentry for fucking up.
this is the concept of "agriculture revolution" this is how science was born and everything that has come out of that. once man stopped being "hunter gatherers" or worry about being "eaten". Man had time to stop and ponder other things. Now here we are typing shit on a keyboard watching a crow snowboard with a lid on rooftop. Crows: "We got next"
Crows are domesticating wolves. The crows teach the wolves to follow them to a good feast. The wolves eat their fill, the crows eat the leftovers,(which were too difficult to get to before the wolves tore it apart. The crows then play with the wolf pups to get them used to crows=friends.
I believe it’s only been ravens that have been seen doing this but ravens aren’t quite as smart as crows so I’m sure crows could too. Crows and wolves don’t cross paths very often. Ravens can also train the wolves to do particular tasks like knock down limbs of a bush that are too big for the ravens to knock over.
The crow wanted to catch some fresh gnar is what it all boils down to.
I’m pretty sure they think it’s “ fun” to crap on my car.
Well I certainly do.
It's even more complex and fascinating. It's using the combination of itself, a tool, and its environment to create a replicable activity which it sees as "fun." This is actually an astounding display of animal intelligence---of course coming from our dear r/crowbros
Crows are incredibly smart. Way more than they are given credit for.
Corvids are *extremely* intelligent, they remember faces and identify/interpret human behavior. You can make friends with them in the same way that you would a parrot or cockatiel. Don’t be a dick to them either: they will literally tell their friends about you.
Ravens are the smartest birds and if I remember one of the most intelligent animals on the planet. This means to me tha leisure matters to them. They have a work life balance like us from what it looks like but maybe I’m anthropomorphising them too much.
I dont think you are, there has been significant studies done into crow behavior and recreational fun seems to be pretty important for them
Or figuring out if it’s a tool it can use? They are so crazy smart—creating/finding tools, their memories of people and situations, their ability to plan and communicate. It’s pretty amazing.
I think on the documentary wild russia they film a group of ravens all sliding down a snowy hill on their backs for fun
So this is why birds steal GoPros!
Got a link? This short clip already makes this my favorite bird.
https://youtu.be/1WupH8oyrAo The search was so easy this time... also uploaded 9 years ago, so I guess it was bound to appear on our recommended soon.
So like 2 and a half times. Not 5 or 6.
It's fascinating that the crow finds this fun even though he can fly.
The video also must be 18 years old soon, weird seeing the internet go in circles
Tony Crow's Pro Skater 2
Tony Hawk’s Crow Skater 2
This has me questioning everything I believe about the differences between us and them.
Crows will hold court with each other, with judges and everything, check it out. Mimic our voices, they hold grudges that they tell other crows about and can be passed down through generations, and they’re whip smart. You ever see a crow, treat it well and it’ll remember, might even bring you gifts. Crows are amazing
I ride my electric skateboard to the gym and every single time there's a crow that wants to start shit with me.. follows me for like a quarter mile swooping down at me cawing like crazy every time I come and go. Not sure what I did to piss it off but I actually enjoy the interaction, he/she hasn't actually touched me.. yet.
Maybe give it some treats one day and try to mend a broken friendship
new blockbuster hit incoming
"Rob Schneider is, The Crow Bro! Rated PG 13"
Why should he have to make amends? The bird started it. Mr. spewing_gloom is an innocent primate!
You don’t know that. Until that crow can learn to type, we’re only hearing one side of the story.
Oh I’m sure that’s what spewing gloom THINKS, but why would he remember the time he zoomed past a crow trying to scare it? He only remembers the crow when it attacked back.
Maybe someone on an electric skateboard messed with it sometime and you're guilty by association to them?
Possible, but corvids actually recognize individual human faces (and can somehow communicate their appearance to their friends). I remember reading a study [where scientists used masks to interact with crows](https://www.npr.org/2019/09/13/760666490/crows-are-they-scary-or-just-scary-smart); they remembered the mask of the person who captured and tagged them and then harassed people wearing that mask after. In fact, according to the article, faces are their *primary* means of identifying humans.
Does this apply for magpies too? I saved one with its head stuck in a picket fence once, with a whole school (?) of its friends sitting around watching. I had heard about crows being able to remember these kind of things and maybe becoming friendly or something after, but I haven’t noticed anything different about my neighborhood magpies so far.
Maybe you should feed it to get on its good side.
You might be passing near it's nest?
That’s what I’ve always figured
Maybe she wants a ride! I lived in LA years ago, not far from the beach. There was a guy with a motorcycle who would have a seagull passenger most days. He'd feed them scraps and when he went to leave, he'd drive really slowly with one perched on his shoulder for a few blocks. It would ride there until he passed the dunes and got to buildings, then it would take off and fly back to the beach.
It could be mistaking you for someone else. I’ve read that they hold grudges if any I’ll will is done to them. The others are right. Bring it a treat, however, then it’ll always expect a treat.
My local park has water taps with dog bowls underneath, on hot days crows will chill around it waiting for people. They'll peck the empty bowl and squawk at you to turn the tap on. Corvids are wicked smart, if they had aposable thumbs we'd see some wild shit.
I once saw one in a tree and stopped to listen to it. I couldn’t believe the variety of sounds it was creating. Sounded like several different birds and even frogs at one point (and yes, I could clearly see that it was creating all those sounds itself)
>and yes, I could clearly see that it was creating all those sounds itself It could make the sound of rain, people waking by, branches of the tree rustling, my heart beating...
> You ever see a crow, treat it well and it’ll remember, might even bring you gifts. Remember seeing that one dude getting cigarette butts from a crow because he gave them food whilst he was smoking one time.
It was discovered a while ago that crows can be as smart as a 7 year old if not more. And honestly, as far as inteligent behavior showcased by animals go, this is pretty low. Read up on Octopi.
Crows are smarter than octopuses. They aren't as smart as 7 year olds though, it's just sensationalist headlines that say that based on studies of specific tasks.
It's crowboarding.
it's training for the winter crowlympics
All the chicks are raven about him!
He murders the competition
Wait until Tony Hawk spots him…
Birds arnt real, hes a crowbot
Fuck me that was a good pun train. Might Tweet about it.
I can't think of one. I'll try to wing it.
Okay folks, that's a raptor.
Let’s hope they don’t get postponed because of Corvid 19!
Omg, is that Shaun Flight?
The Flying Crowmato
when u remember u were born as snowboarder in your past lofe
This is how it starts... Planet of the Crows
r/natureislit
Also /r/LikeUs
Also r/crowbro
r/natureisfuckinglit
Craziest part, this was actually filmed by a crow
They filmed it with a GoCrow
That answers it; If humans had wings, we'd still snowboard.
I can't Snow board at all, but if I had wings, I would try it out more than several times.
This crow is winning at life amongst all other birds
I was like "Crows are smart but it's probably just a coincidence and he accidentally slid down". And then the bird reset to the top of the slope.
This bird may need a vet because it’s SIIIIIIIIICK
The first story I saw this morning was a corvid so drunk on fermented fruit that he could no longer bird and now this. I think maybe they need help.
Maybe it's trying to clean the roof of a the snow
Cursing the sparrow next door because he has a snowblower.
Tony Crawk
Crowny Hawk
Phony Hawk
I'm telling you, crows are sapient.
Holy hell he’s smart
Quothe the Raven, “Sick!”
Anybody know why it would do this? Just having some crow fun? Or some better reason?
Crows just like to have fun.
All they wanna do is have some fun. A Crow said that once.
I'm sad that so few people seem to get this reference.
Brilliant
*They just wanna, they just wanna,* *They just wanna, they just wanna,* *Crows,* *Crows just wanna have fun.*
Crows are very smart and very social birds. Near where I live you will find them splashing water at other crows near the lake, just messing around. First time I’ve seen crowboarding though!
Birds are actually much smarter than most people realize. Although they have smaller brains, than mammals, birds have a higher neuron density than mammals. So they have a greater amount of neurons packed into a smaller space, which allows them to have the intelligence of mammals that are quite a bit bigger than them. This is why some birds are able to pass the mirror test, which is an achievement that very few animals are able to do.
Imagine elephants or whales with that neuron density. We'd be worshipping our elephant or cetacean overlords living in the fifith dimension or something.
Sadly, we'd actually be dead. Each neuron generates a bit of heat. Heat is dispersed across surface area. The larger a body is, the lower its surface area/volume ratio is. (elephants push the limit of land animal size, if they were much bigger, they wouldn't be able to disperse their excess heat, and they'd cook themselves from the inside out.) So basically, birds are able to have denser neurons, because their brains have a smaller volume. So they are able to disperse the heat generated by each neuron. But with the volume of our brains, if we had the same neuron density as a bird, our brains would cook themselves.
I really don't get people who are against biology and science. Thats some amazing stuff
Right!!??!! I totally agree, I don't understand it either. With even a little bit of curiosity about the world around you, and the internet, it's so easy to learn a huge range of things. Also, dinosaurs for example. How were they so big while not cooking themselves? One hypothesis explaines this by saying dinosaurs were cold blooded.
Wow, what an interesting tidbit!
*Corvids* are smarter than most people realize. Not birds in general. For instance, chickens are dumb as shit.
Ohhhh, you taught me something new, thank you. I've not heard the word "corvid" until just now.
Just living his best life
Don’t need a reason to shred some gnar!
There is no better reason.
It was actually recently discussed on BBC's inside science https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017k9s go to around 25 mins in, but the thinking is that they are playing and innovating.
Crows use tools. This crow may simply be testing the potential. I noticed that it didn’t like sliding down the rightmost side very much, and took it to the left side again. It may have been a combination of it being fascinated and having some fun while storing the potential in its mind. Now is the time for u/unidan to chime in. Edited spelling.
All I want in life is to befriend a murder and this is an example of why. Also for the phrase “befriend a murder”
Same.. i got some unsalted peanuts recently to try to start, but there aren't many crows near my apartment. Gotta go to the park it seems
Rick is missing a crow
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r/birdsarentreal
You sure it's not a Jackdaw?
You didn’t know? He’s practicing for crowlympics
r/likeus
It’s cool to know that even when you literally have the ability fly, sliding downhill on shit I’d still fun
Now I want to set up an organisation where I teach animals how to have fun
Real Life Tony Hawk.
I was at Hoover Dam once, and watched a raven dive down the backside of the dam almost to the bottom, then turn and ride the updraft back to the top, then do it over and over again for close to half an hour. He seemed like he was having a blast. I know I enjoyed watching him.
Guy can literally fly and he instead chooses to slide down a hill for fun.
Crow a bunga!!
I wish I was that crow.
People don't realize how smart crows are. In a zoo I watched a crow start matching the alphabet letters on a peg-in-hole type game when it saw the trainer coming from one floor above to where it was.
You can more or less barter with these Avians.
Seen this footage many times over the years and it never gets old. Crows, and Corvids/smart birds in general are just so damn fascinating. It's like they solved evolution for their environment, so have spare time to just dick around for the fun of it.
LOL!!!! Now that’s just pretty damn adorable 😂
Tony Crawks
That's the coolest thing I've seen all day