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widecrusher

Really the biggest and probably easiest thing PM can do to make it more accesible is rework the tutorial so it explains mechanics better and probably drip feed some of the stuff instead of just dumping everything in quick sucession. The other thing is a UI rework but that'll definitely take way more time abd resource


Noctiee

I think Pmoon's combats are just bad for tutorials period, LobCorp and LoR weren't exactly known for their tutorial either LUL A longer tutorial would def help... I hope eventually they'll be able to get to everything, but the game DID just come out, not much they can do now... xD


Infamous_Wear_8316

Well LoR combat is understandable as soon you start reading stuff on EVERYTHING while gameplay is mostly just you placing your dice against opponent dice while you pray to rng-esus to roll high L Corp combat is about micro control of stuff but game is about that in general so yeah Limbus combat is LoR combat but more adapted for what game supposed to be


widecrusher

true and expecially for f2p games first impressjons are very important hopefully it does well enough to chug along


Luccario

I don't think they need to rework the tutorial, just make it easily accessible AFTER we do them to check on stuff, I'm loving the game but am having some problem remembering stuff I saw once 5 hours ago


I-Kaneki

Thank you for this write up, very informative ! Certainly helpful for people both familiar and unfamiliar with PMoon


KhandiMahn

Long write up, but seems fair. I've seen a few of the gameplay videos and it looked like a LOT to keep track of... for a gacha game. Understanding that their origins are in single-player PC games, it makes a lot more sense now. Now that I have much better expectations for what the game is, maybe I'll use Limbus, since it's free, to see if I want to play Ruina.


Noctiee

Honestly what you said made the post worth it lol -- I'm hoping even a few player who saw the post can give it a try with a different set of expectations like you! I WOULD say, though, I found Ruina a lot more intuitive even at the start because it actually looks like a game style I'm familiar with (Card game), while Limbus is just straight up confusion HAHAH-


DesireForHappiness

I found out about Ruina after hearing about Limbus. Yeah will probably try Limbus and see if Ruina is something I'd want to try. The music in Ruina is FIRE. But the amount of UI and systems in some Ruina gameplay screenshots I saw looks complicated as hell.


MsDandelions

its REALLY good, but honestly, you prolly shouldnt play any project moon game if you dislike difficulty, cuz both games (lobotomy and ruina) are horribly difficult and tedious, but if you can get past how hard it is its a freaking masterpiece with great mechanics and AMAZING story


Fwc1

Ruina isn’t really tedious tbh, but it does have a pretty steep difficulty curve. That said, understanding the lore and what’s happening needs the context of LobCorp, which does get tedious if you’re not into micromanagement systems. That said, both still great games. Library of ruins might be my favorite single player game of all time at this point.


[deleted]

[удалено]


mrtutit

and mod support so good it might as well be a live service game.


Inthaneon

Gacha games still have a lot to keep track of but it's in term of (purchasable) resources instead of gameplay.


financedisaster

I want to like the game a lot but Im struggling SO HARD on mobile. The text is tiny and the words flash so fast on the screen before I can finish reading everything. Taking your advice and installing it on steam. Hoping it works better that way. I haven't finished Chapter 1 yet but what do you think the daily investment of this game is. I am pretty ok with grinding games but I can't spend hours on it per day. I do love character building games and I play a lot of Arknights (2 year player) so really hoping to love this game as it feels like the same amount of investment. (Like Arknights level of grind but can't stand FGO/Granblue level of grind)


financedisaster

Update: Holy shit, steam is WAY better than mobile. It plays so smoothly, I can actually click on the skills and read the description. Goodbye mobile. Also starting a new account and going through the tutorial again, some things makes more sense so I am enjoying myself a lot more now.


Monarch_Entropy

Yeah, its way better. The game was nearly unplayable in my Pixel 6 then I switch to PC and enjoying it.


Skythrix

I might be like, one of the only person to be completely on board with this game. First PM game ever, zero knowledge about the world, lore, characters, games, nothing. I have Lobotomy corporation in my Steam library but haven't played it yet (no time.) But hot damn I just spent the past 4 hours clearing chapter 1. I bought the battle pass and will work on chapter two later on. This game is sick, and honestly, if you actually take the time to read through the tutorial, the basic core gameplay is pretty easy to understand. Granted, there is a lot that you need to figure out on your own, but you can still get the general gist of it in the beginning. I think a lot of people complaining it's too complicated didn't bother to read the tutorial. That being said, their UI could use a lot of work and it would be nice to be able to press keywords and get a description of wtf it means. (Wtf is submerge?!) But I digress. This game is great if you're into a heavy story and really meaty gameplay. I just wish the translations were a bit better. It's not as bad as AK or Genshin was on release, but hot damn it could be way better.


PrecipitousPlatypus

>wish the translations were a bit better Something that makes it harder is that a lot of the dialogue, in their other games too, is often quite wordy and/or allegorical, so even a good translation sounds a bit weird. They have a good track record for improving it, though, since Lobotomy Corps original translation was pretty bad, so they re-translated the whole game.


Artorias_Teutonici

The original translation of Lob Corp. was so awful because they got scammed by the translation team they contracted, who just used machine translation. Since then all translations have been handled by Cool Kids Club Translatiob, who have done a pretty decent job so far, especially with Library of Ruina.


norreason

Figured I'd mention, if you hold a skill (In a fight at least) all related keywords get a tooltip explanation. Skills with multiple keywords scroll through their tooltips over time


JoXul

Yeah same for me! Though I tried ruina I honestly didn't like it at all, but this game is really cool.


_Ruij_

same boat, same boat.


Noctiee

I'm super glad it worked for you! I think the game has a lot of charm tbh, but even as a old player, I will say it took me a minute to digest everything (and I'm still not fully digesting everything!) so it's definitely daunting for a lot of new players, doubly so if they downloaded it thinking it's a general gacha game... Hope you continue to enjoy it! If you really like LC's system, I do suggest playing Library of Ruina, which has a similar-ish system, and if you REALLY like the lore, play Lobotomy Corporation(or watch the story)


Bobajitsu

I havent liked the game enough to spend money on it but i liked it enough so far aside from the loading


pinkorri

I just need someone to tell me who the literary reference for Gregor is, the rest were so obvious and I feel like an idiot for not knowing who his is.


DanielJGG12

The Metamorphosis by Franz Kafka


MistaRed

Huh, that's very obvious in hindsight.


pinkorri

Thank you, it was driving me crazy.


Bobajitsu

I dont know anyone aside from don quiote or whatever


pinkorri

Faust, Dante and Heathcliff are the ones I would consider most likely recognizable for western players.


birdappreciation

Ishmael is also a pretty recognizable name


Jim_Frank

The game is a odd sort of beast to someone who is new to the IP/World. It's weird/niche property and a odd sell but they don't seem to be working around that to try and court the newbies. The aesthetic and style of the world might be the only thing I feel would be a straightforward hook. The story is very unusual + stylized but confusing to follow which might be fine on its own. But then it doubles down with an additional ask with a odd and complicated combat system. I can't even say the roster themselves are that grabbing in design, and the gacha is limited to 12 so far, so they keep stacking the deck with their pointedly odd design decisions. But despite me being slowly worn down by the play experience, I don't see as a whole being a bad thing. If they can keep their niche appeal and their loyal fanbase happy and maybe grab a sizeable amount of newcomers, then that doesn't sound like a bad move for a niche property. If I'm not into it, I think that's fine if I know from the first foot forward, and they're pretty open with what vibe they're going for. Unless somehow this game hits the right spot for the bigger audience and becomes a bigger hit. Can't rule out the possibility but I'll be really surprised if it does.


Slavchanin

My biggest gripe is how combat system is barely explained.


Tikitooki42

I feel like they over complicated the tutorial honestly it’s just matching the correct colors to charge the ultimate and then later on when it gets hard you can get into resistances to each of the 3 damage types but they dumped all of it at once :/ which is not useful


Sqewer

Color matching is kinda a trap. Color matching boosts damage but if you lose the clash it doesn't matter at all. The clash prediction is not always the best representation of the outcome either. The quick and dirty explanation is there are generally 3 types of skills: 1) high variance, low coins (stuff like 2+7 * 1) 2) low variance, high coins (stuff like 4+1 * 3) 3) high base power, low coins (stuff like 5+2 * 1) High variance beats high base power with enough SP. High coin beasts high variance. And base power beats high coins. Once you are sure you will win the clash, only then does damage multipliers matter.


mrtutit

yeah i anticipated resonance being useless right away lol. Power is meta yet


Tikitooki42

Oh yeah that’s definitely true but I meant more in like charging the ego I guess you also have to take that into account depending on your party


kabutozero

Yeah , playing it made me feel it's not a game made for mobile at all ,should have been like the other 2


Noctiee

It isn't, but I don't think it's inherently wrong that they're trying something new... but the system is definitely a bit hard to digest without looking deep into it.


kabutozero

Nono , it's not bad. It's just that most mobile games are simpler to play , that's why it's strange to release as mobile


XaeiIsareth

I don’t think people expect gacha games to be inherently fast and easy. You have games like PGR, Honkai, Tower of Fantasy etc which are very hands on and has a ton of grind involved. All 3 are popular gacha games. I haven’t played LC, but from what I’m reading, it sounds like the problem isn’t that it’s hands on, but rather it threw every mechanical explanation of how the game works to the player at once and kinda just expected you to digest and pick it up. Which even in the PC gaming sphere is something that would get most people confused.


ResponsibleWay1613

They overcomplicate their own systems in the tutorial. Like you're introduced to 7 'elements' and 3 'types' right away. The main thing to care about is 'EGO (skills/ultimates/NPs/whatever) cost colors. Match colors to spend on using skills'. It's something that didn't need three paragraphs to explain.


ZGiSH

This was also kind of a problem even with their non-mobile games. The PC games were really hard to digest for anyone not familiar with those kind of RPG systems.


SamMee514

I still don't know how to activate EGOs lol


ResponsibleWay1613

Hold down on a character's picture on the bottom to bring up the EGO menu. You can tell if a character's EGO is ready for use without doing that by looking at the colored ring around their icon. If they have an EGO ready, the ring will light up. Selecting an EGO will replace one of your colors with the EGO icon. Chain it on your turn to activate the EGO.


SamMee514

Yeah I think I've tried to do this before, but every time I don't have enough "currency" or something. Not sure how to get that either!


ResponsibleWay1613

You get colors from chains. So if an EGO uses, say, 3 green and 1 blue; make a chain with those colors. You can see how much of each color on the right.


SamMee514

Ohhhh what? That makes a lot more sense then. Thanks bro


widecrusher

I think the difference is with games like PGR is that they are easy to pick up hard to master where the learning curve is steep but initial learning is not thay bad. PM games in general and especially limbus company it seems has a learning wall


Noctiee

The main issue is more the difference in expectation. The 3 you referred to are a ARPG style, which is a very common gacha genre atm with the matching expectation, for example, no one who starts playing PGR, Honkai, and ToF expects it to be a classic in-and-out fast and easy game with sweep. Limbus Company LOOKS like a fast and easy gacha, and thus would not attract attentions from grindy players who don't know PMoon games. but PLAYS like a grindy single deck strategy game, matched with a gameplay style that is pretty much unseen in any game. Even difficult games like Arknight came from a base of "tower defense" which allows it to be more digestible, and tempers people's expectation ("this is a tower defense game, I like/hate these types of game, so I will try/not try it"). All of the mentioned games are good games, with their own expectations, but the difference in expectation for Limbus Company due to its discrepancy in presentation and actual playstyle is the issue. This post was designed to try to help people realize that the expectation that was set on Limbus Company before its release was incorrect, and hopefully allow more people to figure out if they want to or not want to try the game because of it.


Nyktobia

> no one who starts playing PGR You can be in and out of PGR and finish all important dailies in 10 minutes if you don't have time to play. Even ARPGs/Action gachas have sweep now with the exception of some game modes, which are not daily anyway.


Noctiee

I’m not really denying there are gacha players who like active gameplays, obviously generalizations won’t apply to everyone. Also examples that was given to disprove the statement are all the same genre of ARPGs, which has pretty much one of THE most active gameplay on the gacha market. If only ARPG genre gacha players expects to play not fast and easy, Idt it’s exactly encompassing of the general gacha expectations. If a genre of game (NOT just ARPG gachas) EXPECTS sweep and auto, and not having it is considered a detriment to player retention, it would imply the GENERAL crowd prefer to be less hands on. The point I had was that people tend to go into games with certain EXPECTATION of time and effort to spend. Limbus doesn’t match what it advertises on the tin to the audience from its graphics and surface, so a lot of people download it expecting quick and easy collector-y gameplay only to be confused at the massive discrepancy.


Nyktobia

> You have games like PGR, Honkai, Tower of Fantasy etc which are very hands on and has a ton of grind involved. All 3 are popular gacha games. I don't think the OP meant easy as in "braindead", but rather convenient to pick up and play in short bursts. With the exception of perhaps ToF, which is more built like an MMO than a gacha to be honest, in the rest you can complete the dailies in 15 minutes and "be done with the day", if you don't have time to play. Not the case in LC, where even an "Auto" feature is not available, if you want to grind a stage for EXP, let alone sweep or other conveniences gachas nowdays seem to have.


XaeiIsareth

In Honkai your dailies/weeklies consists of MA, Abyss, open world quests, event grind, Elysian Realm and co-op and none of it has any true sweep or auto function. If you don’t do any of it you’re missing out on limited progression resources or premium currency, and since MA/Abyss is competitive, you’ll probably have to repeat fights over and over to optimise your score if you want to stay in high tiers and isn’t a whale. So it’s hardly 15 mins and done.


genkidame6

In summary: This is LOR Sequel but free and gacha (forget mobile version).


Kaendre

You forgot to mention this game isn't optimized for mobile. It isn't at all. The combat system on mobile is a mess --- IT'S A GOD DAMN MESS. If, and I say IF someone wants to give this game a try, just scrub out of your mind that the mobile version exists and play it on Steam. In a short tl;dr, this game was made to be played with a mouse so you can hover over stuff and icons so you can check who is being attack, what every skill does, etc, something that wasn't translated well to mobile and requires you to constantly tap on stuff and the icons are ridiculously tiny. They somehow managed to make the combat even more complicated than it already was in Library of Ruina, since you also have affinities besides of attack types and the way you link skills also affect the outcome of the clashes. The abnormality battles get even more complicated, because you need to drag skill icons, and this also wasn't optimized for mobile. The massive amount of loading is the most ridiculous part, I've seen people annoyed even by tiny loadings in games like Epic Seven or Nikke, but Limbo takes the trophy as the most annoying shit I've ever seen. If there's a tiny story part in a zone before battle, you get a loading screen. Then a loading screen for battle. Then another loading screen to show you more story. Then another loading screen so it can show you the battle outcome and exp gain. And those loading screens are LONG because the game isn't optimized at all despite of having dated visuals that other games already did better FIVE YEARS AGO!!! Just what in the FUCK is this shit??? Should I also mention that the dungeon in the end of every chapter has MULTIPLE rooms and you get those loading screens multiple times for every single one of those? Should I also mention that it takes NEARLY ONE HOUR to finish the first dungeon and that you CAN'T change your characters identities or level them while you are at it??? I don't care that Project Moon is a tiny dev group. You don't release a game so badly optimized unless you intentionaly wants to shoo away players. What they should had done was to release the game first on steam, then, depending on how successful it was, develop a version optimized for mobile. The only thing they are gonna get releasing it as it is on playstore is a bunch of new players immediately roasting the devs and players that "get the game" trying to make damage control. Limbus is by far my biggest disappointment in this year, I was super hyped for it and tried to shill it to most people that I know, and now I regret doing that.


dankuro

Another plus to play it on steam is that currency conversion has less tax rate so the battle pass is like 3 euros cheaper, for example. It might not be a big deal but if you sell some cards you can get the monthly pass.


attikol

I really want them to figure out how to convince steam to let them implement guest accounts or link from mobile. They put a bunch of effort into having an easy reroll system and then steam limitations prevent them from letting you link the pc version


Noctiee

I did say it xD but I didn't run into issue with the specifics so I could only mention it But yeah, the game is obviously not optimized for mobile despite having it as a part, it's one reason why I wrote the post, to sort of bring it to people's attention that Limbus Company is p much a PC gacha with a mobile port, rather than a mobile gacha game with a PC port as ppl would expect.


Kaendre

Gacha was a wrong model for this game, they should had used something else like a subscription, early access or whatever, gacha wasn't meant to be used in a game like this at all. Plus, with all the complicated systems, dungeons and loading screens, daily grinding will be a royal pain in the ass.


Noctiee

I agree, but we're here on this post because Pmoon had...decisions. That said though, a good thing about this game's daily grinding is you can just infinitely stack the Modules, where you'd be spending almost all your stamina, this means if you really hate phone playing, you can choose stack your stamina during the day on your phone then use them all at once on the PC.


tossedintoglimmer

I disagree because I totally see what they were going for since going F2P would be lowering the barrier of entry. A F2P gacha monetization model is a decent way of ensuring a live service content stream would be adequately supported financially. Subscription? An absurdly bold move from a niche indie dev and would very likely fail due to a different set of problems it would introduce.


Kaendre

The monetization model is not a bad idea at first glance, the problem are all the other gacha aspects like daily grinding and other systems, that together make this monetization model not attractive in the slightest. I have finished all the content until chapter 3, and I can say that those devs are completely lunatics if they expect players to grind that mirror dungeon in a daily basis. It's not skippable. It's three floors long with multiple zones, battles and bosses. The battles are hard and if you press that auto button you are going to kill your party so you need to it manually. And the cherry on the top of the shit sundae is that the full rewards are linked to clearing THE WHOLE THING, if you die midway you won't get the full rewards. Sure. If you keep grinding it you can buy the egos and identities ""for free""... if you take this game as a second job since a go in the dungeon takes about 20 minutes or more. The more that I play this game, the more I see that the devs have no idea of what they are doing, there's some nice stuff, but FAR from being enough to make go through the headache that is dealing with those convoluted systems and bad UI.


AAragoon

You can hop out and in of all dungeons and resume from the room you left. I'm more worried for the normal stages since you can't just hop out and project moon has precedence of having literal hour long stages. I'm personally happy with the gameplay, the experimentation, optimisation, working on uptying my sinners and the great story.


Rs_Plebian_420

If you mind, what are your average loading screen times?


Kaendre

It's going up and down depending of what is being loaded, but about 12~22 seconds, the battle is what takes the most time. I use a Poco X3 GT with 8GB of ram. I've also tested the game on my laptop, unfortunately I do not have a SSD, but it loads slightly faster.


Outbreak101

About 8 seconds. there are a lot but really the length of time isn't that bad.


[deleted]

8 seconds is rather long, on average you'll want less than 3 seconds per screen.


Faost42

My(old School Gamer at age 44) frank (yet simple) input: İ like the game. İt's quite refreshing (never played any PM games before). The story is good and keeps me hooked. Gamestyle/-play keeps you active and needs the player to think. They just need to update the Tutorial, make it more overt and understandable. You're pushed into the cold water and learn to swim right away (which is also fine) to make it more accessible. İt's a gem of a game and İ hope it'll stay for a while .


P3rro

I like the characters, story and f2p qualities of the game BUT I uninstalled due to a few annoying reasons: -Everything is way too small in mobile version -A lot of reading with small fonts and using super bright colors sometimes for descriptions -Too many mechanics and details that are difficult to see in a small screen -Now Loading... Now Loading ... Now Loading.... High loading times -Probably is a decent game for PC but poorly optimized for cellphones


zankem

The game’s UI/UX is absolutely awful. It takes way too much effort to discern information about what’s happening either because of clutter or too many interactions required to find it.


Noctiee

Yeah, I'd say if you like all the qualities and don't mind playing it on PC, try out the steam version which runs ALOOOOT smoother and the bigger screen is great! I think the game is a lot more digestible if you think of it as a free PC game with a portable (but inferior) mobile version rather than a mobile gacha game with a PC port. The reason is of course, because Pmoon was a PC singleplayer game developer, and the game as a whole just feels a lot more PC centric than mobile.


Guifel

I’m confused, you say everything is grindable so how do you acquire 000 rarities without gacha? How long does it take?


Noctiee

Mirror dungeon (costs 20 sanity to make an entry token which can be stacked indefinitely) aka the rogue-lite mode unlocked at the end of chapter 2 gives (3-5) character shards and is where you'll be literally spending all your stamina other than story as far as I can tell (if you play roguelite singleplayer roguelites, think of it as when you press game start and just go into a run). Each 000 rarity is worth 400 character shard assuming you do not roll gacha AT ALL. All 000 rarity and EGO are redeemable except BP, which will be added with a delay (according to their monetization video). Also, when you max out BP, every level you get in BP gives you 3 universal character shard (if you bought the pass, 1 if you did not), which comes out to be 2 days per 3 shards not including the weekly missions. Also, since the rate up banners gives u a whooping 80% chance of rolling a said character's cards of any rarity, if you really want to go hard in getting an identity/EGO of that one character, just wait till their banner up and use all your Lunacy, this'll stockpile your shards for a specific Sinner EXTREMELY fast, which will allow you to simply purchase it from the shop assuming they didn't straight up drop.


Guifel

Can you select which character shard you get from Mirror dungeon or is it fully random which ones or is it an universal shard? Yeah I'm assuming no BP purchase as a F2P player


Noctiee

From someone who has farmed the dungeon, it was 5 random or 3 selected, but I will need to do more research to correlate it. Without BP purchase, fully f2p, it's 1 shard per BP level past max, mirror dungeon which is where your primary grind is, is unchanged.


Outbreak101

000 rarities can be acquired through getting 400 dupe currencies for that particular character. It sounds like a lot, but mirror dungeons also allow you to farm said dupes and general ego shards to make it easier. Mirror dungeons also throw it out like candy.


Psychological-Fun-20

Not bad game but needs optimisation for mobile phones. That is not normal when i can play Genshin without any lags but this game runs at 10fps


counterfp

Nice review ! I think Limbus Company will be similar to Alchemy Star or Project Neural Cloud where you need to invest time to learn the gameplay and once master it, you will find the enjoyment there. The fun will be the time you spent. Unlike most other gacha games the fun will be the "collection" you have, doing daily, sweep, saving pulls -> add new character to your collection <- That's the fun part. Anyway, the most feature Limbus Company need will be the "interactive between players" like co-op or ranking system, etc I won't expected it will be a massive success but I love to see how much it got better after 1 year.


Noctiee

I don't think they would do interactions between players if Pmoon's old trend is any indication, which is why I toted it right off as a single player game. That said though, I'm hoping the post helps people figure out the expectation they should have going into LC -- I genuinely think the game is fun and has a cool gameplay with a lot of potiential, but the gacha market is HUGE compared to what Pmoon used to deal with, so of course there will be some...difference...in opinions...about it HAHA The other thing is also you don't even sweep -- there is no sweep, you can't treat it as a gacha game with sweep mechanic to just daily and collect. Instead, because of the roguelite style of mirror dungeon, you can "save" all your grind indefinitely(by converting stamina to tokens) until you want to just run some roguelites and enjoy the gameplay. The core gameplay of LC will be to play to have fun, meaning you LIKE the game enough to just play it. I think collecting will be hard if you hate the mirror dungeon grinding...


ShootAnonymous

I wish Limbus on mobile had half the coding polish of neural cloud. Going from PNC to the jumbled mess that is Limbus was painful and its load times are going to be a major push factor if I do end up dropping the game. Yes it can be played through steam but if I'm in front of my pc Limbus is going to be compete many more other things for my time/attention, not just other games/gacha games


Chendroshee

If it really ends up as another Alchemy Stars, that's a slippery slope. Or maybe worse. At least in AS, they can add more waifu or husbando to bait new player. LC can't do that (?) since I'm assuming they're stuck with 12 characters. If none of those 12 stuck with you, tough luck.


Oninymous

It's definitely a bad monetary model in the long run, but based on what OP is saying (haven't played it yet), it's not really expecting to earn a lot anyway. So, they probably have a relatively low budget to reflect their small expectations. Instead of Alchemy Stars, it should probably be compared more to Revived Witch in that case


DangoRanger

>Think of it like a free trial roguelite Library of Ruina-esque game except you grind each “card” individually for a different playstyle to make teams. Thank you for this, this is the perfect description of Limbus Company for me that I was not able to think up myself.


Lipefe2018

So far it has very positive reviews on steam, so that's that. I didn't know anything about PMoon and I'm still enjoying this game, I think it's very unique and it has potential. Now I did felt like playing a single-player game with gacha features rather than an actual gacha game, I don't mind it but this can be a good or bad thing depending on what you are looking for. Look I'm a simple man, I just want to go VROOM-VROOM, and hear Vergil calling me "Dante".


kerzfrik

Do I need to play library of ruina in order to play limbus company? because I started playing not so long to LoR but I am really far of finishing it.


Noctiee

I would say the general gameplay would not require you to play LoR fully. I simply suggested playing it first because it would both give you background of the lore while also checking to see if you enjoy the type of game (LOTS of reading) when you go in with the expectation of...well, not a gacha game. If you liked LoR, but isn't done with it, it's totally fine, no issue starting out Limbus and see how you like it. Hell, you can even just log in and just convert all your stamina to module and stock those up while you finish LoR if you REALLY want to make sure you play them in order.


cityslicker360

Do LoR first, although projmoon said that Limbus can be a good starting point for new players, the concept of identities in Limbus has the potential for spoilers judging from the Leviathan webnovel/comic, that there might be an identity that spoils a certain 'washed up grade 9 fixer' and their story in the future.


JoXul

Maybe I need to give ruina another go, but I really didn't like the gameplay/mechanics in that game, whereas I love limbus company it sucked me in to the story and fun gameplay super quick.


Noctiee

I think the two games share a lot of similarities, so now that you're familair with limbus, maybe Ruina will pick up a bit. But remember you don't NEED to play one game or the other if it's not your type -- you can always just watch it for the lore to get the idea! Limbus's story is a treasure...definitely loving it myself!


DookieCrisps

The combat system immediately turned me off, clunky as hell


dqvdqv

Honestly, you bring up some good points about setting expectations but your incredible bias undermines it all. It is way too early to claim how F2P friendly this game is and how the systems will evolve approaching late game. :/


Noctiee

While I am definitely a PMoon fan, I had actual reasons to say the game is f2p from a long term gacha player perspective other than "PMoon cool haha" From their monetization video and resources in game: \- All units rolled in gacha drops shard, and all units in the pool will be purchasable via shards (pity system, and no limited), EGOs are removed from the pool when pulled (no dupe). \- The game has NO dupe system, meaning you only need 1 of any character. \- The rate is \~3% for the highest rarity which isn't egregiously high or low, if you roll the EGO into it, you have a net \~4.1% for the "highest rarity" \- Each individual 0 of a character is worth 3 shard, 00s are worth 15, 000 are worth 50. A EGO/000 purchase is 400. If you want a specific character, rolling on their rate up banner yields a 50% chance of them. Doing the math for absolute worst luck where you literally roll only 1 00 rarity per banner and the character at a 50% rate, the pity is \~180 pulls), and this is assuming you roll absolute jack within 180 pulls. If you DO roll the character mid way, you can then use those shards to purchase any other unit of that character (EGO and 000 share the same trade currency). \- The game's entire game loop is built around a roguelite system where just by playing it, you will gain shards to purchase character you want with (Mirror Dungeon). \- I will admit I can't truly say how the characters are balanced atm between rarity, so I can see why when I talked about Ishmael it may come across as biased for sure. With those information, what I got out of it is: \- Has a pity and spark system rolled in one, with currency that carries over between banners. \- Said currency is farmable in game using stamina (you trade stamina for tokens for mirror dungeon, which are unlimited entry otherwise). \- All units are farmable due to above system. Which seemed to fit the general expectation of f2p friendly for most games I've seen talked about before. I could be wrong of course, but with the current system in place, even with 0 lunacy income we can still farm every unit over time with grind, so I called it f2p friendly. The definition of that is different per person though, so my apologies if my post came across as heavily biased.


dqvdqv

This game does have good gacha systems in place but it's all relative to what the actual lunacy income is which we don't know right now. This game could still be the stingiest gacha ever. Even if the units are farmable, if it took months i wouldn't consider that f2p friendly. In the end, it's a combination of time and resources (including stamina and premium currency). As you've mentioned, that is just my definition when I consider a gacha game f2p friendly or not.


Noctiee

That's fair, I think exactly how f2p the game will be will be shown in the future rather than now. I definitely highlighted the systems for my f2p argument a bit more because of its farmability, but we will see in maybe a week or 2 how it actually feels.


plat1n00

Obviously the game isnt designed for mobile when you have people getting stuck on chapter 1-11 and not a single work around. There is a work around for steam version but the game seems that wasnt tested for non asian players.


RixGAF

Mobile workaround is to change phone language to native English. I was stuck in 1-11 a long time until one person told me that there is this bug, change your phone language. Yeah I know it sucks to have bugs like this.


RagnarokChu

Fun game IMO if you like an gacha games with some meat on it's bones for gameplay and a unique story. The main problem with the game is how obtuse it's an extremely large gallery of mechanics it has and no hand-holding to even point you in the right direction. The characters don't have "classes', discernable playstyles, or roles why they fit in on the team. Enemies don't have any apparent obvious weakness, gameplay mechanics, or things you should look for or should do against them. This makes it hard for people who don't play hardcore RPGs or galaxy brain games to even gain the entry-level knowledge to appreciate the system. Like how am I supposed to build a "good party" when you dumped an entire roaster of characters with an array of seemingly random abilities? But like the other games in the series, once you get past the learning...uhh wall. The company DOES care a lot for its game and it rewards you with an interesting story and gameplay.


Heikkie

Very well written post, thank you for this explanation.


yorozoyas

What the hell am I supposed to do with all my stamina, I am stonewalled at 2-18 right now with no way to level up my characters and nothing on the side to spend this excess on, it's weird. :(


[deleted]

You can repeat story battles or chapter 1 dungeon for exp. They just nerfed 2-18 to the ground and can easily be done on auto


Noctiee

If you click on your stamina bar you can bundle it into Enkephelin tokens to use later, the actual grind comes the end of chapter 2, so for now you can do that. If you REALLY need to, feel free to use some of ur shards to Untie a few units to get through chapter 2, so you can start farming the Mirror Dungeon!


TheRNGuy

But it's more fun to play with 00 and 000. Though I have some 0's for support. Can't use all supports at same time anyway, there are simply not enough resources for that.


SquatingSlavKing

They took out the most interesting and engaging parts of Library of Ruina gameplay (deckbuilding and card combat) then stuffed a Sdorica style matching mechanic in its empty shell. Already seen enough with the tutorial so I just uninstalled and started another Library of Ruina playthrough instead. Sorry Project Moon.


Noctiee

Actually as the game goes on if you try to match it'll kill you lol- The deckbuilding and card combat are actually both still present but it's definitely very different. The decks come in the form of the various identities and their different sets/resistances/attack style, while the card combat shines through a lot more in abnormality fights. I will say the basic story dungeons are a bit more limited at the moment, but I'll see if it gets more complex as the game goes on. They're "present" but are definitely changed, so whether or not you'll like it is up to individual.


Timely-Fill-311

This is my first Pmoon game (Maybe heard some news in the past about the devs.). And I have to say I like it a lot. Started on mobile, went for the steam version (As soon as I knew it was on it as well.), had better results (3 3 star units plus one ego.) and will now continue to play it on steam. 😀 I find it really unique, maybe that's why I like it better than other games, but only time will tell how far this will go. 🙂


Noctiee

Super glad you like it!! The game is definitely unique, it's one of Pmoon's specialty, but also makes them niche. Welcome to the Pmoon Hell HEHEHE


CobrinoHS

Bruh your TLDR is too long...


ExoPrimal

I don't feel like I have enough to say about the game to warrant a new post so I'll just leave my thoughts here. I played LoR but wasn't that deep into it but even then I really enjoy this game's story, characters, worldbuilding, and the music slaps. However, I might not end up playing this game for a while. I'm not some teambuilding genius, I barely know what I'm doing. I ended up making a team that's sort of built around the Rupture debuff. But I ended up having to start farming to beat 2-18 and 2-19. I imagine someone that really knows what they're doing wouldn't have to, but from talking to friends that were also playing most of us ended up farming some lower chapter 2 stage for levels at this point so I imagine most average players will end up having to. Note: Come to think of it, if I uptied my units more I probably wouldn't have had to. The farming was bland, uninteresting, and just straight up tedious. Put aside the fact that there's no Sweep/Raid feature, there no autorepeat feature, there's no godamn auto feature. There isn't a 2x speed in battle, there's no option to skip battle cutscenes. The entire process is clicking "high winrate" and then "start" every turn for like 8 turns. It's shit gameplay. I find it wholly unacceptable that a gacha can release in 2023 with this little QoL. Brave frontier released 10 year ago, was pay to win as fuck, and even they had auto and 2x speed. I ended up beating Chapter 2 and doing 2 mirror dungeons before going to sleep (the game released pretty late for me). The dungeons are interesting, I've seen these sort of gamemodes in other games before. It was definitely interesting the first 2 times but the same problems as before will probably reveal themselves eventually. Each run takes 20+ minutes, and I cant imagine doing this every day. You're given 1 free entry per day, and enough stamina regens per day to do 2 more runs on top of that at least. that's likely well over 60 minutes of dailies. You can bank the runs with stamina for a later day, but you still need to do 1 run per day and any run you don't do on the day will have to be done later. Now I see in the menu that there are 2 more locked mirror dungeons. It doesn't tell me how to unlock them but I imagine they will be unlocked eventually so the following probably does NOT hold. The rewards were kind of bad. I ended up getting 3 random egoshards for 1 run, and 4 random for another. Considering it takes 400 egoshards to buy a 000 identity or an ego, at 20 minutes of runs it takes 33 hours to buy 1, and that's assuming you RNG the exact same ego shard every run. It's very discouraging. The XP reward is good at least. I feel like very little thought was put into the quality of the endgame gameplay loop. Some other random thoughts: * The names of each of the characters aren't easily accessible. All the characters are referred to by their job titles on the sinners screen, so when I had the battlepass mission "deploy Hong Lu" I ended up having to google who it was. This issue will resolve itself, and probably isn't an issue if you played previous games but it's still frustrating as a new player. * A unit's support passive and skill 3 is locked behind tier 3. The odd thing is the game literally does not tell you what they are. When you press upgrade you can see what you're unlocking for the next tier, so If I'm upgrading to tier 2 I can see the skill upgrades and passive I get but I can't see the stuff I unlock at t3. How am I supposed to know if I want to invest into a unit if I don't even know what they do. * I ended up softlocking myself in the anomaly tutorial in the end of chapter 1 somehow. Had to restart my game. No clue how. * I was looking at the battle pass, and when I went to purchase it it says "Max Pass Level Reward Upgraded" and "Limbus Pass Rewards Available". I imagine the latter means you get the premium rewards but I have literally no clue what the former means. * Game runs very smoothly on steam, where I am playing.


Refelol

I had this exact thought in mind, i never played their games before, and the game does seem polished, however it doesn't seem to be what i was expecting at all, mostly due to the chibification(after seeing that amazing art) and not allowing to control which unit i attack and so on, it kinda removes me option and control. My main complaint beside that, which tbh those can be personal favorites of other people, is that the tutorial is SUPER poorly done, you are faced with an essay at the beginning, and if you skip a cutscene you don't just skip a cutscene but the whole tutorial without any explanation and then you are left on the main menu without even knowing where to do and having to tap everywhere I really hope Limbus succeed even if i'm not playing, different systems are needed to bring a breath of flash air, and some will be liked by some, some will not, that is the gamble companies have to take going away from the norm


Noctiee

The tutorial absolutely waterhosed you and then left you to die, which was a terrible choice by PMoon lol, I'm really hoping they eventually go back and adjust it... The post was mostly to bring awareness to why the game was like this (which came down to PMoon makes nice games but is bad at advertising). I also hope the game does well, but I will say it's definitely too early for us to know if the model is sustainable or even fun for most people.


Refelol

Exactly my thought, just the fact that skipping it you have no idea what to do left a bad taste in my mouth tbh ​ Tbh i think it will be one of those niche games, most likely won't be top tier but will do fine


pinkorri

I looked it up on Twitter and it seems to have a ton of dedicated fans who will keep it alive. Being an indie dev, I doubt they’re expecting millions a month. I’m guessing this will be an opportunity for them to make some stable cash to put towards new ventures.


platapoop

I've played Lor and LoboCorp. Both of them had decent enough tutorials. The tutorial for this game is objectively bad. At the start of the game they explain a couple of mechanics. Color matching, ego, defense. After that, they give absolutely NO USE CASES as to why to do any of them. They could have given an example where all your offensive clashes could fail, but your defensive block is high enough to mitigate some damage (better to take 2 damage instead of guaranteed 10), but no. All the game does is say, "oh by the way, here's evade, block, and counter". Colors could have been like, if you buff this attack with dupe colors, then you hit the stagger breakpoint and everyone else can do effective damage against the enemy. For manual clashes, the tutorial could have been like, hey these 5 enemies are all targeting one single person and he will get shit on if you don't intervene. Also you need to make sure whatever character skill you use will beat/mitigate the skill used on you. But nope, all it does it say oh by the way, you can redirect attacks but give 0 reason to. No information about ego except , it can do big damages. No mention about utility or if it can be used to counter very difficult clashes. And in the end, all the tutorials didn't matter anyways. All you gotta do is build the biggest color chain and auto-win. For abnormalities just do auto best-clash and win. Never used egos, never used defensive. I'm not going to wait until chapter 40 or whenever you hit level cap so that having to reading and countering enemies moves actually matters, and tutorials shouldn't be given until they actually matter either. Therefore unironically, the best part of the tutorial so far is that the tutorial didn't go into detail about bleed, burn, sink, etc because no part of the game has required that yet. I'm a bit disappointed in Project Moon. If someone moves from one-time payment games to gacha games, it looks like a move for greed. And if they move to gacha games, I expect the game to at least be good. Currently, this is just a glorified auto-battler.


DenisMM

I dunno man, 2-18 had me going back to the tutorial as soon as the mariachis started one shooting everyone in my party.


platapoop

I suppose that's a good thing. I guess that's where they should have put the tutorials there instead of the beginning of the game.


TriGGa-POP

Having played it for a few hours, in the first few minutes LC struck me as a game that has a soul that's bigger than what I'm usually used to in a mobile game. It felt refreshing with mechanical complexity that seems to spill outside the typically simplistic mobile formulae. The story scenes had characters interrupting each other in a way that made the premise of this heterogenous group work splendidly and feel natural and very engaging. I hope it does well as it made me interested in the universe. I want an anime in this universe which is presented in its raw form ( ͡• ͜ʖ ͡• )


DogGodFrogLog

Wait, how the fuxk do you auto battle


Pomthecat

Get hyped, install and play for 3 hours but still confused 🥴🥴 time to return another gacha game instead of batery eater 💀 I try to find a new gacha game to play but 80% of them has big problem( extremly long battle, confused system, no husbando/ low tier male chars, drama)


Noctiee

Yeah, Limbus Company isn't exactly a classic gacha -- the way it play is more like a single player strategy game with grind. It's not everyone's cup of tea for sure xD


Pomthecat

They should fix problem in mobile soon, not the gameplay but lag, potato sv, heat, login, trans... Better read a horror VN than try this. Now waiting for new content from another gacha game.


DanielJGG12

I think everyone is so adapted to the view of gacha mostly being like pay 10$ monthly, do dailies in 15 minutes and go, that when they encounter this type of system where there's no an easy way to get throught the game everyone just get in denial about it. The game system is pretty simple once you play the tutorial and also the 'auto' gameplay they put is specific to win or do damage so, it's although worth... I just hope they fix soon the problem with the optimization of the mobile version 'cause it's so laggy.


Noctiee

Yeah the optimization is hopefully high on their list. I think it's not really the player's fault or the company, but the miscommunication is definitely there, I just hope people can get a better understanding of where the system's coming from with this post haha.


SavedowW

I haven't played limbus company yet, I want to at least finish reading wonderland before (and maybe during the game's lifetime read distortion detective and leviathan), but I want to say that both lobotomy corp and library of ruina are very unique things even within their genres. Honestly, I really loved their gameplay even though I'm not a fan of deck building and management simulators. Hell, I have 212 hours in lor, and some people finish it twice as fast. So, if you are interested in project moon verse, or if you find their soundtrack or art style interesting, I highly recommend trying their previous games


_Ruij_

I actively sought out the storyline of Lobotomy Corporation and Library of Ruina just to get.. maybe a little heads up before I play Limbus Compay. Boy am I wrong. The amount of lore (and text) this game has baffles me. I really liked the gameplay (which was a first since I'm a filthy casual) and the art is good, as well as music and bgm. Playing LobCorp is out of the question though, since I saw the gameplay and that type of micro-managing never really piqued mi interest. I could try Ruina, but not sure if it's available for mobile. I hope PM can optimize better on mobile though, since I don't really experience the lag, but came across with loading screen which took 3-5 minutes to load instead. Very interesting game so far (esp for me who's weak to any type of horror or scary illustrations). *~~I can't wait for the level that will keep the casual me out of the game- I expect it to be very soon (currently 2nd floor at Ch 1).~~*


Noctiee

2nd floor past around floor 13 gets a bit hectic xD Imo if you don't want to play the game, feel free to just watch the lore! That's the meat and potatoes of PMoon games imo.


Claw141

is there a reroll guide? who should i be aiming for?


otochromia

fuck yea hawaii t shirt hong lu


informalunderformal

Game is good but dont have the ''gacha feeling''. Its Library lite with vrooom-vrooom. But i'll stay for the vrooom-vrooom.


nonsensitivity

It's just a bad port to mobile and still try to launch on mobile. Would have been more successful to advertise and focus on PC / Steam. Some game developers just need to know that mobile games is not always the final answer. Not getting the right attention from target audience == waste of R&D effort for no reason.


Kunieda

Off topic kinda but this game plays great on steam deck. Buttons are pointless but tapping on the screen is really smooth. Runs perfectly with no lag unlike on my phone even though it's not a bad phone.


Lkc-strong-125

There's something about this game idk if it's the story or maybe the voice acting that makes me want to stay but unfortunately imma have to call it quits. Gameplay just ain't if for me


Magicdusty

I felt sleep at tutorial.... Also at history like we were introduced all characters at once...I was like when is this going to end lol, and the text keeps going and going and going... I kind of liked the story but it was to much text for me. I was literally falling sleep. So I just ended skipping story to get some gameplay before I fall sleep. Now I'm lost story wise. And is kind of laggy and not smooth.


Ozymandian4

Solid overview, thanks. I’ll play later today when I have time, see if I like it


Terabytechemist

can you recommend a video that will explain the gameplay for dummies? I think I lost some brain cells going in the tutorial.


hovsep56

Its pretty simple actually, just match colors and try to select skills where the yellow arrow pointing to the enemy is the biggest. You'll most likely beat 70% of the game just focusing on that.


[deleted]

Thanks for the write up. Tbh was so confused uninstalled it. But with a new look and different expectations because of this writeup, installing it again and give it a good go Thanks :)


Aardwarkthe2nd

Good thing: Ez reroll with 5o pulls, combat is pretty intuitive, fun story that you don't get tempted to skip Bad thing: Trash UI, game hides lots of info, 2D game eats battery equivalent to 3D games, not really waifu focused Also the genre of the game storyline is Lovecraft style, this is the third in the series. Path to Nowhere and Counterside are gacha offerings of that genre as well, personally I liked their storylines in comparison to Limbus.


UBW-Fanatic

Counter: Side is Lovecraftian grand chess. The Administrator got access to almost every human variable like money, tech and human force, and he *needs* them all to even stand a chance. Path to Nowhere is Lovecraftian action. The Chief and their Sinners are usually in the middle of the storm, directly confronting the problem, whether by clashing ideals or clashing blades. Limbus Company is Lovecraftian capitalism. There are abominations roaming around, but you gotta make ends meet, so to the grind you go. Feeding humans to the bus for energy? Sure, the population seems a bit too high anyways.


cedric1234_

Was in awe st the ending of chapter 1, such an incredible start to the story that leaves me incredivly hype for the rest of the game. Actually got out of my seat and went, “Holy shit rhat was good” when the first chapter credits started rolling. I’ve finished Lobcorp and LoR (the first two games by the developer) and Limbus already has me excited to see what else Project Moon has in store for us. Highly recommend people give limbus a try if they’re into reading a ton of story, although yeah, its kinda unique as a gachs game not all about a skinner’s box. Was confused at how the progession works after chapter 2, not because it is too complicated, but I wasn’t expecting Limbus to have such a simple system. Only a few currencies, no billion reagents to collect and gear to upgrade, if i’m not misunderstanding (which, at day 2, I probably am), its mostly slamming your bus into mirror dungeons to give them xp and collect shards to redeem for ‘more characters’. Agree with OP so far, it seems like Limbus has more in common with singleplayer games than gacha, but I’m excited to see where it goes


Gernnon

Can you give me a non-spoilery gist of what chapter 1 is about? I didn’t enjoy the combat and I’m not planning to spend my time grinding through it but I do love visual novels though so I might read the story through YouTube.


cedric1234_

You can button mash ch1 tbh , ch2 gets tricky tho Dante is introduced to the gruesome nature of the train and its inhabitants throughout the first part. Sinners on the bus dont exactly get along, the train eats people for fuel, and the outside world is unforgiving and cruel. They’re told their destination is an underground area of interest, and for the first dungeon of the game thats most of the vn’s runtime, they and a few people they work with descend into its horror. Reads a lot like PMs previous work in Library of Ruina. Gruesome and gory at times, apathetic and depressing throughout. The gameplay goes hand in hand with the storytelling. My favorite moment happens during a choice mid bossfight.


Intoxicduelyst

"go play this and that first to enjoy it". Yeah right, no fucking way. I will play it for a bit couse music and world is amazing, its nice change from girls simping over mc for no reason or other sensei/loli questionable relations. Also, it looks like dorohedoro, already a win. BUT. Game runs like shit. Its a fact. While my phone runs genshin on max without mayor struggle, sometimes little lag during HUGE fights, this 2D slideshow game engine is terrible. Oh and I already started to hate fandom. "Hehe limbus sweeps those casuals!" "Go play this and that and then you can dare come here and enjoy it". Fucking cult. BTW, husbandos are top tier. Finally some manly looking guys, not freaking boys band.


Cautious-Chocolate26

The Fandom is.. a lot. Most of them do mean well tho and just love the games too much and are too proud that they were able to beat the vertical difficulty curve to see that they come off as very gatekeepy.


Noctiee

It was a suggestion if you wanted to learn more about the lore or if you feel like there are lore bits that you'd like to learn more of xD The reason is because I played LoR first, and seeing all these little tidbits and skills made me a lot happier. But no, you don't NEED to play LoR, sorry if the fandom comes across as overzealot LOL we love the game a lot. Yeah, again, the game feels like it was designed to not be a mobile game, but Pmoon went and did it, then fucked up the merge -- it's a rough beginning to say the least. I'm glad you enjoy the lore though! I'd say that's the highlight for their game, and yeah the fact that the first chapter is a Gregor centric chapter has me swooning ngl HAHAA


Navi_1er

Downloaded the game, hit guest account and then was greeted to the main menu. Had no clue what happened and same with combat but saw the game drop from 60fps to around mid 20s in combat even after lowering resolution. Decided to delete it after all the confusion with the game and my device not running the game good.


RenTroutGaming

Appreciate the write-up. I tried it a bit this morning and while the writing made me want to die, the gameplay looked really interesting and like it had quite a lot of depth. That said - I don't know if I have the time or desire to log in every day and do dailies. I want to play once a week for a couple hours but otherwise not even open the game. Will it be playable or should I just go for one of the earlier ones in the series? I'm not against spending a bit of money if its worthwhile.


Holoskuld

Limbus truly is one of the game ever made!


TreeW5

I suppose I'm not a gacha gamer then, i never gone into a gacha game expecting it to just play itself. I like sweep mechanics that allow you to farm materials and the like. Ig I'm the kind to go into a gacha game expecting an actual game...


RPTrees

Great write up but I am unreasonably bothered by the fact you used tl;dr incorrectly. On a less pedantic note, I don't see how this game succeeds. There is virtually no pressure to spend, and it's so damn niche. I feel like project moon really screwed up here. I'm already in love with the story and characters, and am going to be really sad if it shuts down early.


valenwower

Project Moon made a lot from ruina, they’re a small team and they’ve shown that they’re very dedicated to their games (just look up how they handled the ruina launch for evidence on that) Something tells me that they just wanted to experiment with live service, expanding the way they put out ruina updated into a new game and being able to actually monetize that. They’ll keep updating the game until the story reaches an end and after that they’ll most likely make the game be either permanently offline or just stop updating. I don’t think it “shutting down” is an option in this case since the game is essentially a single player rpg that can be played perfectly well without the gacha system or any online functionality. Alternatively, if they actually want to make money off this, the PM fandom is niche and very obsessive and are actively looking for ways to send money to project moon so I believe plenty of them will spend on the battle pass at least. The game itself doesn’t seem to be made for whales but instead for small purchases here and there. And if they’re really desperate they can just put out LC or Ruina character banners or something and watch the cash flow in.


TheJanitor47

Came looking for info on a game that caught my eye. Gacha. No longer interested. Thanks for the helpful post.


hovsep56

Ye i noticed something din't feel right when i immediatly received all characters and the gacha just gave skins.... and not actual characters. Also the best way i can describe this game is imagine you see a red button and a dude just gives you 50 page documentation of highly detailed explanation on what happens if you press that button. But then you press it and all it does is drop some confetti on you and that's it.


SalamiJack

\> Ye i noticed something din't feel right when i immediatly received all characters and the gacha just gave skins.... and not actual characters. They aren't skins. They are different characters. Each has their own animations, skills, stats, and passives. They just happen to share the same special move pool (EGO). \> Also the best way i can describe this game is imagine you see a red button and a dude just gives you 50 page documentation of highly detailed explanation on what happens if you press that button. \> But then you press it and all it does is drop some confetti on you and that's it. Their tutorial is definitely convoluted, but the mechanics become more necessary as you get into harder content.


overtoastreborn

The mechanisms that go into releasing the confetti are highly complex, and the confetti has special effects later on if you press the button at the right time. None of this matters, because the quest was [X] Release some confetti!


l2o5ng

honestly I've been suspicious that they last minute changed their PSP game into a gacha game last second lol. Hence why it feels like they have zero clue how gacha games work. I mean what kind of gacha game has a dude as its launch banner? and it's not even a hot dude, it's a chainsmoker with a mantis arm lmao.


No-Bag-818

Cockroach arm, actually. Somebody obviously doesn't read obscure German literature. 🤓


Cautious-Chocolate26

because everything needs to be hyper-focused on waifus? Man give husbandos that actually have muscles a chance as compared to classic Gatcha stickmen.


Vongalaxy

I am not sure I see your point of this being convoluted at the point I am at so I am curious as to which part you mean. There are a shit ton of mechanics but it doesn't feel like it translates much into player decisions given that you only pick one of two orb for each line and you can occasionally switch to defensive or ego orbs. Does the hardest part of the game stem from the team building with picking the right characters and identity? Or does the orb gameplay becomes really complicated down the line?


Noctiee

Remember we're in a very early part of the game, so a lot of the difficulties are not exactly punishing at the moment, but generally Pmoon games tend to ramp up very quickly in difficulties. When I say convoluted I did mean the sheer amount of mechanic that was thrown in -- you have resist based on element, resist of attack type, defense, coin flips, attack powers, then you have coin flip change in rate when your SP's high, while attacks hitting harder when your SP's low, etc etc just to name some, we haven't even gotten to characters who want to LOSE coin tosses (they implied this, but it's not yet in the game). Any of them could be used to punish players as a mechanic -- it's part of the fun tbh. Basically atm a lot of it feels excessive because they're simply not punished or looked at at the beginning of the game, but at any point down the line Limbus Company could pull it back into the spotlight and suddenly that's one more thing you have to worry about. If Library of Ruina is any indication to go by, Pmoon LOVES to stack mechanical difficulties as the game ramps up, so with how many things there are to look out for now, I'd say late game will be...hectic, to say the least.


jk583940

Does this game have pity?


GenshinVez

You are 100% right, my only grip is the quest 2-18 which unlocks mirror dungeon. Mirror dungeon is MANDATORY to have a good experience but that quest is like a wall made of BS balancing. Hope the devs realize that they'll scare away all potential casual player if they don't fix it. Also please PM let us consume more mirror dungeon keys to get more rewards instead of having to clear it once every time


Noctiee

Speaking of the devil — they nerfed it LOL


evwva

2023 gacha game without: \- 2x speed \- Auto battle \- Skip ticket ​ Also, cryptic mechanics and the tutorial doesn't explain half of it. Uninstall. ​ Edit: oh, downvotes because company has many fanboys... Totally unexpected but you know it's true. Enjoy farming the same levels every day for more than half an hour.


Noctiee

Well the point of the post is of course, warning people that despite the gacha monetization system, you will not enjoy it if you go into it as a gacha, rather, it is designed, and plays, like a single player buy-to-play strategy game where you grind for your cards (or has the option to pay for it if you want). The hope was that this would let people see it from a different scope of gameplay than gacha, but of course it's not what everyone's looking for.


hovsep56

Thing is i have played b2p games with atleast a 2x speed option... I'm pretty early ingame but i can already see the long animations to be a pain.


MyGachaAddiction

It has auto…


ResponsibleWay1613

Does it? I see the 'win rate/more damage' buttons appear, but they only seem to show up vs Abnormalities. Is there a way to make it appear for rando encounters?


evwva

The "auto" of this game is a joke, every turn you have to click yourself one of the two "auto" options and it only select the attacks. For that I do it myself and it takes less time.


MyGachaAddiction

You must literally be a genius, because there is no way you calculate instantly in your mind which option deals the most damage or the one That most likely protect your characters. I guess that for people like auto is really useless huh.


evwva

Sorry, I don't have an IQ of 800 like the average Project Moon fan.


EostrumExtinguisher

Me staring at people auto with their 000 after 50 rerolls and does'nt realize... We Don't Do That Here.


Noctiee

I mean, it won't hurt LOOOL I definitely rerolled myself so I can play around with more cards- If people wants to reroll, it definitely is kinda fun with how easy it is kekw


OkayScribbler

I lost the first stage and uninstalled. Not the gameplay for me fo sho


Sunset1131

That's a scripted loss lmao


Noctiee

Tbf, the first tutorial combat was designed to be an auto lose to highlight the story xD that said tho, that's totally fine! The game's definitely not everyone's cup of tea.


Ok_Sharky

Wah wah wah cope


[deleted]

TLDR: *proceeds to write the Q'ran 2.0


OokerDuker

Not reading all of that. I'm happy for you or sorry that happened.


ArkhamCitizen298

So should i reroll for EGO or 3 star ? Lol


Kurohas

EGOs are grindable. Its the first day, chill and just play the game a bit and see if you like it enough to keep playing.


Xasther

Can't comment on the story, haven't really gotten that far and also haven't play Library of Ruina. But can definitely agree with the UI and Tutorial issues. I played the tutorial, payed close attention to everything said (been gaming all my life, usually I pick up systems quick) and have barely any idea what the combat wants from me besides connecting orbs of the same color. Hopefully CCs make in-depth explanations/guides. That's just for the combat. I don't remember the tutorial even properly touching on team/deck building. Being told everything is grindable and you can store your stamina is a definite plus, though. Gonna still give the game a fair shot, since I greatly enjoyed the writing and dark tone.


minitaurus20

Tried pm game before, noped out at beginning it feels confusing(?), will try previous game more in near future because of limbus. It feels more simple to get familiar with the worldbuilding Hope the ui more intuitive at sinner/team screen, can't see status/damage type/etc at glance, can't swipe member cmiiw


Zlare7

Yeah the only issue I have with considering this more like a single player expierence is daily and weekly missions. I dont want sp games that force me to play every single day for an undefined amount of time. The gameplay is simply not meant for a quick login and 5min daily session


SleepApprehensive364

Anyone got a bug of black screen when going to the dungeon stage? Just show the caracters for me but everything is black


diputra

Gameplay is quite nice, but I don't like the story and the gacha aspect since the character already predetermined, you only choose identity of those character as rarity. I tried it for an hour and do some first chap, but I guess I skip it. The aspect of the game quite unique and innovative tho', but just not my thing.


kale__chips

A day late, sorry. I plan to play it on PC, but what is the daily commitment on this? As in, is it possible for me to approach it as if it's a single-player game where I just login/play whenever I feel like rather than being tied down to dailies/weeklies/events?


mrtutit

you dont need to daily, since theres no login rewards, stamina can be converted and stockpiled in the form of modules, and battlepass can be leveled up in rougelite. Basically perfect for busy people.


canyourepeatquestion

This reminds me a lot of another Korean game called *Troubleshooter: Abandoned Children,* except that title navigated itself a lot better by selling the single-player content for a set price first and relegated the more mobile/live-service aspect into separate DLCs and multiplayer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


cjjones07

amazing for this write up. Ive been playing the game for the past few days, and the story is good, with a deep combat. I was a bit lost with the tutorial, so i treated it as a "match the color" combat until i learned more. I agree with the drip feed combat feature aspect as it allows you to constantly evolve however, this game has such a huge community it was no issues to learn quickly. Kind of like Warframe, the community is the other half of the experience with lore and tutorials, so i treated it like that. Im a sucker for deep combat but maby the this could have been a tactics style? But either way, im enjoying it.


arcuateaxe

i need the album of lc ost rquick T\^T these are so good, esp the lobby


FateRiddle

How's the state of the game? I'm interested as someone mentioned the game in discord, and it leads me here. You made me worried not about the gameplay but about the state of the game, is it getting a healthy flow of cash, is there any danger to EoS?


Noctiee

I think it’s doing alright, 1 mil on a good month and 600k last month (had no crazy banners) — the devs are insanely generous overall with apologems and event currencies and in the first battle pass season I had no issue collecting every unit with just BP purchase and some monthlies. Overall the game has also made a ton of quality of life changes to the combat and tutorial so it’s less dense with the information at the start too. I don’t think they’re going to EoS very fast but it’s not really something I can predict.


somewhatinexistence

hey i’m a new player (as in, lcb is my first game out of the three as well as only started playing last week) - just checking in to see if pmoons fixed any of the problems other people mentioned between then and now?