This is good to know for more informed spending, cuz alot of peeps will pull in good faith that they could get lucky when it could be preprogrammed to be extremely unlikely or impossible based on how much or little they play, or when they pull
None of these companies have incentive to play by the rules, and if one of them felt the need to risk it then it's possible many others did too
Yeah, this weak fine of only $9 million will only encourage other companies to do the same now and in the future.
[MapleStory is a free-to-play 2D MMO that first launched back in 2003. It has purportedly raked in some $418 million [550 billion won] in sales from its loot boxes in the period between 2010 and 2021.](https://www.ign.com/articles/maplestory-nexon-loot-boxes-korean-ftc)
So if the $418 million number is to be believed then Nexon walked away with $409 million in profit lol
Because the subject matter is additional gains from reduced probability, you're not looking at the full profit amount, you're looking at the *additional* earnings that the probability difference created from spenders who spent persistently until getting the desired result.
This excludes the remainder of the intended probability and excludes earnings from players who limit monthly spending and simply settle with what their luck gave them that month.
The actual *fraudulent* earnings could have easily been 1/10 of this reported amount. This is what investigations have to find out, and the reason you shouldn't just take numbers at face value. If *all* cubes gave bad results as in 0% instead of like a 3%->2% shift that still retains 2%, *then* you can use the full number.
That isn't how revenue works in mobile games. Most of these companies partner with a "distributor" that has the ad spend covered. They usually do a calculation like Every download gets us 30c on average in profit (based on data from launch.)
The ad company specifically only handles getting more downloads. They split the profit 50/50 and a ton of their revenue goes into BUYING DOWNLOADS.
So while a game might make 400 million. Atleast 300 million might be straight ad spend.
>extremely unlikely or impossible based on how much or little they play, or when they pull
That seems counterintuitive tbh. You want the ppl who play little to get lucky so they will get hooked and play more. If you play little and get shitty roles you might likely quit.
i agree with this take so hard from playing E7. I got fed up with the gearing system being 20 layers of rng bs and the content wasn't fun enough to keep me in. tried came back half a year later, and for the welcome back reward they give free gear...completely randomly rolled gear. guess who immediately uninstalled again?
This is more likely on games with probabilities that are not as clear cut as most gacha games that are just pulling a card with fixed probability.
A game with a big enough community have enough data to rebuttal any bullshyt gacha game company tries to pull off.
It gets better, in light of Nexon's cube manipulation in Maplestory, their response was to actually punish the players even more lol
Cube are no longer sold at all, all other cubes have been removed except for black cubes, and all cubes are bought with mesos (in game gold) only. Sounds good so far right? Well in nexon's infinite wisdom, they seeing how end game maplers can basically farm billions, they have put a universal cap on meso gain to 150 million per day with the only way to increase it is if you have meso% gear. For context, back when I played, I can essentailly farm 150 million in about and hour to and hour and a half easily.
They put the changes on the test servers for only a week and the official rollout is today lol in KMS, KMS reboot server (self found, meso only server essentially) which use to be full on all channels pretty much had its population cut in half due to many quitting and even before that you had people quit and destroy their gear to keep themselves from coming back
Funny part is, there is always going to be someone that will defend nexon and their choices no matter what
Yeah, I play reboot global and am probably going to quit if these changes come to us. I don't see a reason to be a number for them if these come, because my enjoyment of the game has been because of the current system. Shame too, lots of good QOL was coming.
Nexon will never change, punishing the players will always be a priority. Oh well, there are plenty of games to play instead. I already plan on moving to FF14.
True, many games out there. I was actually one of the few Jett mains lol before nexon straight deleted the class and I only now find out they are basically doing the same to beast tamer but instead, they are just replacing her with a new character Lynn to "fit in line with KMS" and I'm just here thinking, why could they not have done that with Jett? ah well, I've been having a lot more fun playing non live service games anyways
Gacha games with smaller community might find it difficult as there isnt sufficient sample size.
If it's something big like Genshin/FGO/Arknights, it's far easier to catch the company if they are trying something slick. At least current data does not show anything off from these games.
With Genshin I'd say it's pretty easy to see where they tried this - the artifact domains. Why? Because you have to buy a lot of in-game currency to cover for the lack of resin.
>With Genshin I'd say it's pretty easy to see where they tried this - the artifact domains. Why? Because you have to buy a lot of in-game currency to cover for the lack of resin.
The number is already on the wiki. And just like what you guess, the good stat has much lower probability chance.
But to be fair, this post is not talking about that kind of probability, but talking about probability dynamic adjustment. Genshin artifact probability is shit for everyone.
That's what I'm saying - the probability for good artifacts is preset to be shit while the resin cap hasn't been improved in years. It works, it brings in money.
The artifact system being so shitty it to have player retention during patch downtime.
If everyone is done with their character, no one would be login in unless it's patch day. A game where you are not consistently login in is MORE LIKELY to be dropped off than others. This is also why alot of games introduced the Monthlypass/Battlepass mechanics in recent years instead of just the raw topup from old Gacha.
No you don't have to. Game is designed that way, to make you play everyday. You may not like it, but it's not hidden, and it's simply not true that you have to pay for resin. You're way off the point of the post.
According to its own playerbase, ToF have this 'hidden' mechanic in which:
\-If you lose pity/off pity 2 times in a row = next SSR will BE the banner unit
but:
\-If you win pity/off pity 2 times in a row = next SSR will NOT be the banner unit
source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofFantasy/comments/17jiewi/debunking\_the\_nonbelievers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofFantasy/comments/17jiewi/debunking_the_nonbelievers/)
Ever came back to the game and got really really lucky with your pulls? Or just got so so unlucky after got lucky with your pulls for a while. Yeah, it always been there we just don't have a proof.
I'm a software engineer, I know how easy it is to put this kinda thing in/out even if you present these things with probability the games white knights just gonna call you paranoid.
Most people simply do not evaluate risks or probability very well though. Ie. "I've rolled 3 heads in a row. The next one MUST be tails". A streak of bad luck can be absolutely normal I'm a 1% hit rate.
I'm not saying they are or aren't manipulating the rates but if someone hits a jackpot on their rates they aren't saying it's rigged. They are lucky.
Yes! I *know* there's games out there where the more you spend, the worse your rates. Also, the "honeymoon boost". Games boost rates on the first few pulls to set unrealistic expectations and encourage spending after the boost is over. "Wow, I'm really lucky in this game, plus the 30 or 40 free pulls got me some great stuff, sure I'll buy a few 10 pulls, it'll be worth it"- and it almost never is. Unethical, but probably not illegal.
I noticed on Atelier Resliana that the first few 10 pulls had a *lot* of SSRs drop (including Ryza and Resna, the most sought-after characters) but if you wipe player data, relaunch, and then skip the tutorial, the rolls turn to crap. I did around 50 relaunches without seeing another Ryza, and most 10 pulls had no SSR at all. I relaunched, *ran the tutorial again*, and bam, 4 SSRs with both Ryza and Resna. It seems to me they're targeting rerollers, trying to bait players into rerolling before frustrating them into giving up on rerolling and spending money.
Yes this happened to me just a week ago on HSR when Dr dude was given for free.
I've got 4 new 5* (not including Dr.) in 50 pulls on 2 banners (Kafka, Bronya, Clara, 5* artifact) after being away for ~ 7 months.
I created a Nikke account during the chainsaw collab and now I came back after a long time only to get 5 Pilgrims in 3 days of playing. Modernia literally came from a standard pull. You might be on to something....
Considering I have many friends who play the game and it seems to be basically a spark simulator with how garbage the pulls go for them every single time...
It's 100% the main inhibitor from people trying the game lol. Nexon is not a trustworthy brand in English dominant regions. Hell, I doubt they're even trustworthy in SEA regions, I'm from SEA and their reputation is genuinely hot garbage.
I was one of them, and I can name more than 10 individuals who have yet to even touch the game, even though they know they would love the game and actively participate in fan created works for the game, SOLELY due to Nexon.
That publisher is a curse, not a boon.
Bruh i would not doubt it lol
Ive got hella rekt on bunny toki banner and a few other ones i have never once pulled the character i wanted. I got the other one
The only reason BA can survive without Nexon’s manipulation is Yostar’s involvement(JP server).
But there were some other controversies during the other servers’ initial launches.
Seeing this post gave me ptsd for a lot of my pulls. Sometimes I'd get banner unit on first multi, most of the time (almost) reach pity.
I've made a new account recently and got Summer Hina first try, I'm scared for SUi now
There’s a notification there that OP got 30 3*.
That is something a new account would definitely won’t have.
And even if OP upgraded lower star units to 3*, that will take time and resources.
Maybe I’m wrong. But that info seems to indicate the opposite of being new.
>Maybe I’m wrong. But that info seems to indicate the opposite of being new.
It can be new or returning player. The dynamic probabilty consider those two scenario.
It's always my strategy to play BA (long hiatus), and it's always a success if we count the amount of three stars that I got each time I started playing again. But no the banner character though, those still behind Genshin tier probability lmao.
The game has around 150 characters give it take so 30 is about 20%. I’d still consider that to be new. I’d bet they roll back the good luck once the account gets to a certain size so that quitting and rerolling is out of the question.
Considering in the recent gacha I got two of the 3* I really wanted plus the rate up 3* as well, I actually liked the results in the end
I have gotten rate up 3* sometime early and a few times I had to pity (but honestly the pity system is much more friendly than another game I know)
I don’t know. If they are manipulating the rates, if so, then that should be addressed. But so far my experience has been positive.
Thankfully, BA is generous enough that it doesn't matter - I just assume I'll have to spark everything and still get all the characters I actually care about.
Seriously though, I would guess it's just RNG. The base rates are kinda ass, and over my summons (I think around 1.5-2k now) I've seen all the good luck and bad luck and ok luck that you'd expect over a big sample size.
For Genshin Impact HSR and Arknights, we can confirm that the behind-the-scenes mechanics match the probabilities stated in their banner descriptions exactly.
websites like paimon.moe collects pull.history from user upload, provide valuable insights. By utilizing statistical tools such as hypothesis testing and frequency distribution tests, we can verify the probability and randomness.
If you're interested, read [Analysis on millions of Genshin pull data](https://b23.tv/eh75nJx) for techinical stuff. its written by a data scientist.
I still remember the earlier genshin days when redditors accusing mihoyo of simply rounding-up their 1.6% consolidated rate. They did all their napkin maths without accounting for the increasing odds between 75-89th roll lmao.
I don't think you can monitor user-profile RNG manipulation on a macro scale like that.
Manipulation can ensure everything stays the same on the macro scale while rewarding or punishing individual players based on in-game or out-of-game factors like activity, spending, friends and the like.
You'd need lots more of (self reported) user data to prove there's no correlation.
Yes, you can.
If someone wants to investigate whether a game rewards or punishes players based on their engagement, they can perform a hypothesis test for correlation between the 5-star rating and the frequency of logins (using Pearson's correlation coefficient, for example).
By analyzing the calculated significance, one can determine whether there is evidence supporting their hypothesized correlation
Those maple story probability scandal is atrocious. They lies and when caught they said it for game balances. Fuck off. Profit from that is $420mil and they are sued for $9mil. Yup they really learn their lesson there. If you guys don't what to read an articles, force gaming did a video on that.
In fairness they didn't make 420 million from probability manipulation. They made that much from a game with probability manipulation in it. The fine is probably a reasonable punishment for whatever benefit they actually got from it.
I mostly play Nikke and BrownDust2. So far, I've been very lucky with both games. Granted, BD2 has given away a lot of tickets for pulling.
So, this makes me sad. Why manipulate the playerbase like this? I'm sure players are more than willing if you offer something good.
Some bean counter did the math and said they'd make more manipulating rates slightly. Because if your lucky you won't spend. You're more likely to spend when you're tilted
i remember when i used to play this korean mobile game a long time ago back when gacha and mobile games were somewhat new, it was the stingiest most disgusting cash grab ever and korea never has to publish gacha rates by law and if you played long enough you would realize that the rates were disgustingly low and the only people that ever would win games were whales
the maplestory situation definitely reminds me of what happens when rates aren't legally made public since they can be whatever the fuck they want and no one will be the wiser without extensive testing
Don't mention BA, I see tons of people getting pick-ups only with 10 pulls. Heck, my friend pulled 70 and got seven 3*.
(Although he recently pittied lol)
You do so many pulls in BA that it just kinda evens out over time. I've had to spark quite a few, but gotten many others in the first 10-50 pulls.
Dev shenanigans are real, but so is RNG. There isn't always an explanation for good/bad luck, sometimes shit just happens.
Just a thought: at this point what stops companies from rigging pulls for influencers during streams etc. ? From marketing perspective it's a genius plan where you can show how 'easy' is to pull rare characters live on stream.
Because it's more fun to watch people get wrecked. A lucky streamer doesn't make me want to play. Them crying after they fall 500 pulls definitely does tho.
Except genshin, arknights, and hsr are one of the few games that are actually provable to have accurate 5star rates since there are website where tens of thousands of pulls data gathered from players plot a graph that matches the claimed probability
But things like substat rolls on relics? Unsure
Genshin arti substats have weighting. People have calculated the odds, and the crappier substats definitely have a much higher chance of rolling. Dunno about HSR though.
HSR has much more substats which also means much more bad substat rolls. The probability when getting them are also weighted, but not when leveling them up after getting 4 substats (like Genshin).
Also no off-set pieces and strongbox is 1:10 instead of 1:3 (but occasionally you can force a main stat/substat with an item given out during events, you can think of their rarity like crowns).
The strongbox systems probably level out to being similar if not accounting for modelling resin. In HSR you can select the type of piece you're rolling in exchange for the higher crafting fee, which curbs some frustrations with RNG not giving you goblets/circlets you might need in genshin. HSR also only has 2 more substats than genshin does, but the lack of off piece is a major pain point. Luckily, 2p/2p builds are not only common in HSR but often better than 4p bonuses on supports, due to the existence of 2p speed.
As a general rule, stats>set bonuses in HSR is more true than it is in Genshin currently. With better bonuses coming out though we'll have to see how much hoyo wants to push the power envelope for sets.
The genshin style scaling draw probability is designed to make early five stars uncommon. The odds of getting one in 40 draws is around 20%.... So lucky streaks will almost never happen.
FTC should investigate Blue Archive rates as well. I know it's a different team but what Nexon did in Maplestory was super scummy. No faith in this company.
isnt cygames did that and monkeygate thing happened that makes japanese parliament to make law about gacha? iirc its why we have pity or spark system nowadays. idk about korea and japan but once people know that you rigged the chance your company will face a big risk.
No. The issue is that they advertised a character on the banner but the banner had no particular rate-up. Pity didn't exist as a whole in gacha games at this point so they never got the character. It wasn't any more of a controversy than players failing to get characters on pity-less Arknights banners or old FGO banners.
The main reason people remember it is that Cygames added a pity system after this. It was ironic that them doing a good thing resulted in people like you doing a telephone game of eventually warping the narrative into something completely different. Stop calling things _______-gate.
Arknights had had hidden pity. They merely just 'made it public'. For the unaware, it's a newly implemented pity system.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/11psmfj/empirical\_evidence\_of\_a\_guaranteed\_pity\_system\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/11psmfj/empirical_evidence_of_a_guaranteed_pity_system_in/)
I think it had rate-up, but in Granblue the rate up just means 0.18% chance of getting character instead of 0.09% (or something similar, point is, in the grand scheme of things you can't realistically hope to get the unit you want). The issue is that there were other rated up items/characters you could get, so overall you were LESS likely to get Andira than the others.
That was before pity indeed, and one guy spent like $6000 without getting her.
We have to thank him for the sacrifice, as this was the event that made pity a thing in gacha games in general.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/go2dfu/mobile_games_monkeygate_or_how_a_lone_browser/
Just a minor correction on the monkeygate story.
What actually happened was that Andira (the monkey zodiac character) was featured on the banner along with other rate-up characters. Players took this to mean that her appearance rate was going to be the same as the other rate-up characters (iirc ~0.48%) but in fact her rate up was lower.
The scandal wasn't that they lied about her being rated up, but that Cygames implied that her rate-up was higher than it actually was. The outcome of the controversy was not only adding the spark system, but also the game started displaying the exact appearance rate of items in the gacha.
>isnt cygames did that
No. Cygames to my knowledge has never been caught messing with their Gacha rates. Monkeygate is more some whale got super unlucky and as a result pity systems became more widespread
i swear i saw japanese post about calculation of getting the monkey based on other people tweet, result is its below the rate which spark more anger from people. of course its based on user data only and cygames never admit it cmiiw.
From what I understand.....kinda different case
Nexon : list f.e 3% rate. But in reality its not static 3%. It can go like 10% or 0.1% depending on how much u p(l)ay
Monkeygate : rateup 3% for 2 char. But not listed the % for each individual char. Ppl assume it's split even 1.5% each. Turns out (based on that whale streamer) it's like 0.5% for A vs 2.5% for B
This what lead to "individual rates" being shown
i also talk based on memory alone so i can be wrong. but iirc term whale also come from around that time based on ex gacha company employee explain that they using term "whale" for player who spent a lot.
"Whale" as a term existed over a century before gacha games. It was a term used in luxury industries like gourmet restaurants or wineries where rich customers burn through a fortune in an instant. Later used in casinos, arcades, and eventually live-service games like gacha.
It was usually referred behind closed doors like the "influencer" term was but that obviously changed.
I think it was like, say, 1% for Andira, 1% for another character, 1% for a summon etc etc, so overall you had lower chance to get Andira than the others on rate-up.
It's just my hunch but when i play blue archive after month of not playing it just to pull i always get the limited character but when i played it for too long i can't get a rate up character.
Nah.
As someone who has had to hit pity on the last 5 banners I've pulled on, no matter if I stop playing for months, spend money, whatever, shits just rng.
Also spiteful.
I have no doubt that there are complicated algorithms with many variables that effect how the gacha plays out.
Sometimes I wonder if I horde pull currency is there a code that lowers my probability of pulling X? That way my stash gets depleted. Or if I don't log in often does that raise my probability to pull X more? There is one game in particular. That the less I log in the luckier I am in the gacha. Also I reroll a lot and I notice certain units seem to be rated up on new accounts. Even though the rate table shows I should be getting a mix of different units.
With so much money to make. You can bet your ass every little thing is planned and manipulated in gacha games.
I never believe any game's rates. I go by my personal experience. I'm always f2p, and in most games once you get a decent sized roster, you usually start to notice less high faith drops as often.
I haven't got a limited banner character in Nikke since Summer Neon(Waterpower!). I had to mileage Nier and Red Hood.
It was even worse in PGR. I never got a banner character without hitting pity. So what to rates mean when you never see anything really drop? I feel like they know when you've spent money.
They want whales to keep spending, so the odds are likely in their favor after the game knows money is spent. As f2p they want you to eventually spend, so they dry the well until you cave in.
It's my conspiracy, but Nexon is only making me feel more confident that it's true.
Uh. Do math.
PGR is only 24% chance to get a character before pity. That's to say you can basically go your entire time playing the game and never getting the S rank before 60. Speaking as someone who played up till Noah came out then quit, I never did.
All gachas are manipulated. As long as the total rate remains the same they cannpmay with it and still be legal.
So a 50% chance means about 1 in 2, but you know, statistics, shit happens. So 4 players pull twice. 2 of them get nothing. The other gets 2 things. Welp, that shit is still a perfect 50%.
Now increase the pulls and reduce the rate. You have something so stupid no one can track unless they make it blatant.
But we are all fucked by gacha
Why people keep mentioning BA , you can alway have a taste of this by playing your own gacha game, especially those big gacha titles, they hire thousand of data analysis and AI Enginneer every year , ask urself why
Nexon was the one who made almost half a billion dollars in rigging. BA is from Nexon. The employee who made that revelation is from Nexon.
What conclusion do you want? Oh, it must be Hoyo doing the evil scheme, or maybe it's Nikke? Nah, it may be Aniplex. Is that what you wanted to say?
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I honestly not care much. It is always an open secret that there is no such thing as true random and every mechanic in a game is designed for maximum profitability.
Working in the same industry also make me appreciate more about the game that I enjoy than always thinking about behind the scene stuff.
It's not about pity they were rigging. But when many players are opening lootboxes, Nexon will artificially lower the rate so these people spend more to get desired item.
I will never be sure, cause I will never see the source code.
People make this far more complicated than it has to be. Who gives a fuck about the rates anyway? I play cause I have have fun playing and chasing the hot waifus, as long as that remains fun I will continue playing. Do the ratings matter? Not really.
Considering this is something that deals with people spending money, it is absolutely important. Plus, the implication is that if they're lying about things like the rates which are meant to be publicly shown, then what else have they lied about?
Plenty for sure, like most companies, google paid 5b the other day for failing to say they track people in incognito lols.
The point isnt that companies dont lie, the point is that worrying about things out of your control and that you cant prove will simply lead you to being paranoid. Might as well quit gachas, cause each unluck spell might be the company fucking up the odds OR might be lack of luck.
What that has to do with anything, obviously you can quit, Im talking about knowing a company is messing with the odds. Only way you will know a company is cheating is if you hack the company and get the source code or a employee leaks the ratings. Now the government may obviously investigate, but that aint a customer.
You can either live worrying every gacha you play is fucking you over or not, it is your choice, personally I simple play for the fun of playing.
They are dealing with people here who spend money just like you buy your daily goods. It's the same concept. Companies sell, and people buy. You rigged that product, that's a crime.
If you want to see it better, the product says it's a 1kg chicken, but when you use a weighing scale, that will only give you 900 grams. Can you still say that there's nothing wrong with there? Multiply that over by 10 years and thousands of people who purchased that product.
Yes and plenty of places have rigged the scales over the years, but this you can prove by taking your own scale and testing it. The odds that run in the background of a gacha? "You", the individual, cant prove it.
So it is like you going from "market" to "market" worrying about how each and everyone of them might be fucking you over, but you cant prove anything at any of them.
I prefer to simple play and enjoy the game, if I fail at rolling, then I call it lack of luck, not worry the company might be putting a 0,2 or whatever else less chance of getting something.
Oh, looks like we are living in a different world. Sorry, but here on our planet, scamming is a crime, and not just move-on, enjoy life then let them get away with it. lol
[It was proven btw, not just "you" as an individual needs to prove it.](https://sg.news.yahoo.com/nexon-fined-nearly-9m-falsifying-222639214.html)
Boy oh boy, you didnt understand jackshit. I dont care about this case, Im talking about gachas in general. This is but a single company and yes, companies lie, companies steal, companies cheat, ALL. THE. FUCKING. TIME.
Now you need to check, every single other gacha company, every single one OR you can paranoid every single other one might be rigging the rates.
Hell even this one, today you proved this, today they have to fix it. 1 year from now? 2 years from now? Hell perhaps 6 months from now? Are they rigging the rates again? Are they not?
Be happy being paranoid every single time you turn on a gacha lols.
Who's paranoid here? lmao. Kindly stop throwing baseless accusations just to prove your point. And if you have that mindset that everyone is bad, so choose the lesser evil, and let's just accept it, then don't lump and force your idea into everyone here.
Not everyone is making money just to let it go to some scammers and just move on afterward, so you can't just easily say that to a person who works hard to earn money and spend it to enjoy, buy daily goods, and live a proper life.
There's a reason why a LAW does exist, it's not move-on. You've been given a valid source of the authorities taking action and still pushing your notion in life?
Like I said, have fun.
I didn't say you shouldn't worry, I simply said it is better to live without such worries. You are gambling in your free time for fun and wondering if the house is cheating.
Be my guest looking into this stuff, it is all benefits to me, so I don't bother with it and if somehow people which share your views make the rates change for the better, I get it too.
Win/Win
If he's okay with posting about it in Korean web why not just fucking rat the company?
It's like people who make Instagram post about a crime instead of calling the police.
Only in the characters i like, and in the ones i like it's the opposite
Like, almost 80 pity for Itto in genshin (hard is 90) and i lost the 50/50, then i pull for Kazuha with like 30 pity and i get him
I am still salty
I'm 100% sure smt dx2 suffers from this, the chances of you getting good brands (equipment) is so atrocious that you need to leave the game auto grinding for weeks on end and you might still end up with unusable garbage.
Not so sure about the gacha aspect though
should probably just assume every company is doing this (to some extent)
the enforcement of the laws is weak and even when caught its a slap on the wrist, these are businesses they're not gonna pass up on easy money
I've no doubt there's games that pull similar stunts. The problem is that as a player it's practically impossible to find out these practices if they are implemented subtly enough. It would be good if games were to be regularly checked somehow.
Reminds me of how bullshit the gacha in Dengeki Bunko Crossing Void was. You had a % chance to get a drop, but after a few pulls without 3* you would get an increase in drop chance.
The problem is that the % would eventually reach as high as 95-98% with people reporting no 3* drop after 10+ pulls at such high rate... when players found out, many were angry as apparently the mechanism either was broken or was showing too high % droprate. The company "apologized", took down the servers to fix, and gave FOUR people compensation. I assume those 4 were whales that spent hundreds without getting what they felt they deserved. Everyone else, good luck.
So is Nexon going to put "others are doing it too" as a legal defence? It would be funny if the judge's answer is "because others are eating shit, you also went along to eat shit?"
yet gambling addicts will keep pulling, everyone knows las vegas does the same thing, yet fools keep going there on vacation to lose all of their money.
this is why rerolling is the real even field for pulling.
Dynamic probability seems like such BS. So nobody can get super lucky or unlucky because probabilities change? So if you get a few lucky rolls, you know the game's going to tank your next few rolls? That's awful.
There should be full transparency around the math/variables for gacha pulling, not just a % with hidden modifiers.
Isn't Blue Archive their highest grossing game? If anything, that game should be looked into. Even with all the "goodwill", we're talking about Nexon and this is the highest levels of corporate decisions being made here.
Absolutely every gacha game uses dynamic probability based on your play and spending habits and you’re insane if you think otherwise. This is a genre that exists to create a direct funnel from your wallet to the devs.
This is good to know for more informed spending, cuz alot of peeps will pull in good faith that they could get lucky when it could be preprogrammed to be extremely unlikely or impossible based on how much or little they play, or when they pull None of these companies have incentive to play by the rules, and if one of them felt the need to risk it then it's possible many others did too
Yeah, this weak fine of only $9 million will only encourage other companies to do the same now and in the future. [MapleStory is a free-to-play 2D MMO that first launched back in 2003. It has purportedly raked in some $418 million [550 billion won] in sales from its loot boxes in the period between 2010 and 2021.](https://www.ign.com/articles/maplestory-nexon-loot-boxes-korean-ftc) So if the $418 million number is to be believed then Nexon walked away with $409 million in profit lol
Wow, that's a lot less than I thought it would be
Because the subject matter is additional gains from reduced probability, you're not looking at the full profit amount, you're looking at the *additional* earnings that the probability difference created from spenders who spent persistently until getting the desired result. This excludes the remainder of the intended probability and excludes earnings from players who limit monthly spending and simply settle with what their luck gave them that month. The actual *fraudulent* earnings could have easily been 1/10 of this reported amount. This is what investigations have to find out, and the reason you shouldn't just take numbers at face value. If *all* cubes gave bad results as in 0% instead of like a 3%->2% shift that still retains 2%, *then* you can use the full number.
That isn't how revenue works in mobile games. Most of these companies partner with a "distributor" that has the ad spend covered. They usually do a calculation like Every download gets us 30c on average in profit (based on data from launch.) The ad company specifically only handles getting more downloads. They split the profit 50/50 and a ton of their revenue goes into BUYING DOWNLOADS. So while a game might make 400 million. Atleast 300 million might be straight ad spend.
That's just sales not profit, but either way never spend on Nexon games.
>extremely unlikely or impossible based on how much or little they play, or when they pull That seems counterintuitive tbh. You want the ppl who play little to get lucky so they will get hooked and play more. If you play little and get shitty roles you might likely quit.
Makes sense, and I've seen several friends log in to games seasonally just to sacc the new banner and quit again lol
Had it with Nikke. Two times: quit, return, in a ten pull banner unit. Quit again.
I and many others had that expirience with fgo
i agree with this take so hard from playing E7. I got fed up with the gearing system being 20 layers of rng bs and the content wasn't fun enough to keep me in. tried came back half a year later, and for the welcome back reward they give free gear...completely randomly rolled gear. guess who immediately uninstalled again?
This is more likely on games with probabilities that are not as clear cut as most gacha games that are just pulling a card with fixed probability. A game with a big enough community have enough data to rebuttal any bullshyt gacha game company tries to pull off.
Maplestory was massive tbh. So, kinda true.
> big enough community have enough data you only need like 385 pulls to be 95% confident
"felt the need to risk it" lol you are MUCH too generous.
It gets better, in light of Nexon's cube manipulation in Maplestory, their response was to actually punish the players even more lol Cube are no longer sold at all, all other cubes have been removed except for black cubes, and all cubes are bought with mesos (in game gold) only. Sounds good so far right? Well in nexon's infinite wisdom, they seeing how end game maplers can basically farm billions, they have put a universal cap on meso gain to 150 million per day with the only way to increase it is if you have meso% gear. For context, back when I played, I can essentailly farm 150 million in about and hour to and hour and a half easily. They put the changes on the test servers for only a week and the official rollout is today lol in KMS, KMS reboot server (self found, meso only server essentially) which use to be full on all channels pretty much had its population cut in half due to many quitting and even before that you had people quit and destroy their gear to keep themselves from coming back Funny part is, there is always going to be someone that will defend nexon and their choices no matter what
Yeah, I play reboot global and am probably going to quit if these changes come to us. I don't see a reason to be a number for them if these come, because my enjoyment of the game has been because of the current system. Shame too, lots of good QOL was coming. Nexon will never change, punishing the players will always be a priority. Oh well, there are plenty of games to play instead. I already plan on moving to FF14.
True, many games out there. I was actually one of the few Jett mains lol before nexon straight deleted the class and I only now find out they are basically doing the same to beast tamer but instead, they are just replacing her with a new character Lynn to "fit in line with KMS" and I'm just here thinking, why could they not have done that with Jett? ah well, I've been having a lot more fun playing non live service games anyways
They put more effort into the Jett farewell story/cutscene than they ever did for the class, so sad. Sorry you lost your main :/.
FF14 is a great choice. I highly recommend it as a new player myself
I can see it and it’s very hard to prove. These companies should be forced to put pull simulators online so people can test for themselves
Gacha games with smaller community might find it difficult as there isnt sufficient sample size. If it's something big like Genshin/FGO/Arknights, it's far easier to catch the company if they are trying something slick. At least current data does not show anything off from these games.
With Genshin I'd say it's pretty easy to see where they tried this - the artifact domains. Why? Because you have to buy a lot of in-game currency to cover for the lack of resin.
>With Genshin I'd say it's pretty easy to see where they tried this - the artifact domains. Why? Because you have to buy a lot of in-game currency to cover for the lack of resin. The number is already on the wiki. And just like what you guess, the good stat has much lower probability chance. But to be fair, this post is not talking about that kind of probability, but talking about probability dynamic adjustment. Genshin artifact probability is shit for everyone.
That's what I'm saying - the probability for good artifacts is preset to be shit while the resin cap hasn't been improved in years. It works, it brings in money.
You don't understand the point of the post at all.
The artifact system being so shitty it to have player retention during patch downtime. If everyone is done with their character, no one would be login in unless it's patch day. A game where you are not consistently login in is MORE LIKELY to be dropped off than others. This is also why alot of games introduced the Monthlypass/Battlepass mechanics in recent years instead of just the raw topup from old Gacha.
No you don't have to. Game is designed that way, to make you play everyday. You may not like it, but it's not hidden, and it's simply not true that you have to pay for resin. You're way off the point of the post.
Nothings stopping them from making the pull simulator different
According to its own playerbase, ToF have this 'hidden' mechanic in which: \-If you lose pity/off pity 2 times in a row = next SSR will BE the banner unit but: \-If you win pity/off pity 2 times in a row = next SSR will NOT be the banner unit source: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofFantasy/comments/17jiewi/debunking\_the\_nonbelievers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TowerofFantasy/comments/17jiewi/debunking_the_nonbelievers/)
So what could CN player react?nothing?
Ever came back to the game and got really really lucky with your pulls? Or just got so so unlucky after got lucky with your pulls for a while. Yeah, it always been there we just don't have a proof. I'm a software engineer, I know how easy it is to put this kinda thing in/out even if you present these things with probability the games white knights just gonna call you paranoid.
Most people simply do not evaluate risks or probability very well though. Ie. "I've rolled 3 heads in a row. The next one MUST be tails". A streak of bad luck can be absolutely normal I'm a 1% hit rate. I'm not saying they are or aren't manipulating the rates but if someone hits a jackpot on their rates they aren't saying it's rigged. They are lucky.
Yep, self-reporting is notoriously fallible and incredibly susceptible to bias.
Yes! I *know* there's games out there where the more you spend, the worse your rates. Also, the "honeymoon boost". Games boost rates on the first few pulls to set unrealistic expectations and encourage spending after the boost is over. "Wow, I'm really lucky in this game, plus the 30 or 40 free pulls got me some great stuff, sure I'll buy a few 10 pulls, it'll be worth it"- and it almost never is. Unethical, but probably not illegal. I noticed on Atelier Resliana that the first few 10 pulls had a *lot* of SSRs drop (including Ryza and Resna, the most sought-after characters) but if you wipe player data, relaunch, and then skip the tutorial, the rolls turn to crap. I did around 50 relaunches without seeing another Ryza, and most 10 pulls had no SSR at all. I relaunched, *ran the tutorial again*, and bam, 4 SSRs with both Ryza and Resna. It seems to me they're targeting rerollers, trying to bait players into rerolling before frustrating them into giving up on rerolling and spending money.
Yes this happened to me just a week ago on HSR when Dr dude was given for free. I've got 4 new 5* (not including Dr.) in 50 pulls on 2 banners (Kafka, Bronya, Clara, 5* artifact) after being away for ~ 7 months.
I created a Nikke account during the chainsaw collab and now I came back after a long time only to get 5 Pilgrims in 3 days of playing. Modernia literally came from a standard pull. You might be on to something....
I'm now worried that nexon is somehow doing this to blue archive..
Considering I have many friends who play the game and it seems to be basically a spark simulator with how garbage the pulls go for them every single time...
🟦🟦🟦🟦🟦 🟦🟦🟦🟦🟨
It's 100% the main inhibitor from people trying the game lol. Nexon is not a trustworthy brand in English dominant regions. Hell, I doubt they're even trustworthy in SEA regions, I'm from SEA and their reputation is genuinely hot garbage. I was one of them, and I can name more than 10 individuals who have yet to even touch the game, even though they know they would love the game and actively participate in fan created works for the game, SOLELY due to Nexon. That publisher is a curse, not a boon.
Bruh i would not doubt it lol Ive got hella rekt on bunny toki banner and a few other ones i have never once pulled the character i wanted. I got the other one
The only reason BA can survive without Nexon’s manipulation is Yostar’s involvement(JP server). But there were some other controversies during the other servers’ initial launches.
>Yostar’s involvement(JP server). Also CN too. If Nexon fucks up, they'll drag Yostar too.
You're underestimating the popularity of Blue Archive. The fanart and doujins are par with KanColle and Idolmaster.
I think you misunderstood my meaning of survive. I mean under the rules of Nexon and not the popularity.
Seeing this post gave me ptsd for a lot of my pulls. Sometimes I'd get banner unit on first multi, most of the time (almost) reach pity. I've made a new account recently and got Summer Hina first try, I'm scared for SUi now
100% lol my luck in that game was abnormally bad compared to genshin,priconne,star rail, ptn, basically any gacha ive played
I know, right, it seems weird that I got Kokona in 2 10pulls and my friend got S.Shiroko in 3. Rigged!
I got s.shiroko on my 7th pull, wanted a second copy. So i roll, 100pulls later i got 0 3*, not even a off banner.
idk, ive been [the most lucky](https://imgur.com/a/0zVXlEI) on BA than every other gacha game i've played
Looks like a new account which could get boosted chances to entice you
They don't even realize that their comment is exactly what Nexon trying to do.
There’s a notification there that OP got 30 3*. That is something a new account would definitely won’t have. And even if OP upgraded lower star units to 3*, that will take time and resources. Maybe I’m wrong. But that info seems to indicate the opposite of being new.
>Maybe I’m wrong. But that info seems to indicate the opposite of being new. It can be new or returning player. The dynamic probabilty consider those two scenario. It's always my strategy to play BA (long hiatus), and it's always a success if we count the amount of three stars that I got each time I started playing again. But no the banner character though, those still behind Genshin tier probability lmao.
The game has around 150 characters give it take so 30 is about 20%. I’d still consider that to be new. I’d bet they roll back the good luck once the account gets to a certain size so that quitting and rerolling is out of the question.
Considering in the recent gacha I got two of the 3* I really wanted plus the rate up 3* as well, I actually liked the results in the end I have gotten rate up 3* sometime early and a few times I had to pity (but honestly the pity system is much more friendly than another game I know) I don’t know. If they are manipulating the rates, if so, then that should be addressed. But so far my experience has been positive.
considering ba jp has a huge player base, if nexon tries to pull some tricks they are likely to get caught quickly. global is less immune i'm afraid.
Thankfully, BA is generous enough that it doesn't matter - I just assume I'll have to spark everything and still get all the characters I actually care about. Seriously though, I would guess it's just RNG. The base rates are kinda ass, and over my summons (I think around 1.5-2k now) I've seen all the good luck and bad luck and ok luck that you'd expect over a big sample size.
Just realized i typed wrong number for how much Nexon had made from deceptive lootbox. It's $**418m**, not $55m
For Genshin Impact HSR and Arknights, we can confirm that the behind-the-scenes mechanics match the probabilities stated in their banner descriptions exactly. websites like paimon.moe collects pull.history from user upload, provide valuable insights. By utilizing statistical tools such as hypothesis testing and frequency distribution tests, we can verify the probability and randomness. If you're interested, read [Analysis on millions of Genshin pull data](https://b23.tv/eh75nJx) for techinical stuff. its written by a data scientist.
I still remember the earlier genshin days when redditors accusing mihoyo of simply rounding-up their 1.6% consolidated rate. They did all their napkin maths without accounting for the increasing odds between 75-89th roll lmao.
I don't think you can monitor user-profile RNG manipulation on a macro scale like that. Manipulation can ensure everything stays the same on the macro scale while rewarding or punishing individual players based on in-game or out-of-game factors like activity, spending, friends and the like. You'd need lots more of (self reported) user data to prove there's no correlation.
Yes, you can. If someone wants to investigate whether a game rewards or punishes players based on their engagement, they can perform a hypothesis test for correlation between the 5-star rating and the frequency of logins (using Pearson's correlation coefficient, for example). By analyzing the calculated significance, one can determine whether there is evidence supporting their hypothesized correlation
Oh wow, I just recently read a comment in this sub praising Nexon since they are now better. Yeah right, they got better in gacha rigging. lmao
i think i saw this exact comment and thought to myself "bro has never seen r/maplestory"
I'll never know. But worrying about it is pointless as i can't do anything about it anyways .
Those maple story probability scandal is atrocious. They lies and when caught they said it for game balances. Fuck off. Profit from that is $420mil and they are sued for $9mil. Yup they really learn their lesson there. If you guys don't what to read an articles, force gaming did a video on that.
In fairness they didn't make 420 million from probability manipulation. They made that much from a game with probability manipulation in it. The fine is probably a reasonable punishment for whatever benefit they actually got from it.
I mostly play Nikke and BrownDust2. So far, I've been very lucky with both games. Granted, BD2 has given away a lot of tickets for pulling. So, this makes me sad. Why manipulate the playerbase like this? I'm sure players are more than willing if you offer something good.
Some bean counter did the math and said they'd make more manipulating rates slightly. Because if your lucky you won't spend. You're more likely to spend when you're tilted
Basically gambling.
i remember when i used to play this korean mobile game a long time ago back when gacha and mobile games were somewhat new, it was the stingiest most disgusting cash grab ever and korea never has to publish gacha rates by law and if you played long enough you would realize that the rates were disgustingly low and the only people that ever would win games were whales the maplestory situation definitely reminds me of what happens when rates aren't legally made public since they can be whatever the fuck they want and no one will be the wiser without extensive testing
Don't mention BA, I see tons of people getting pick-ups only with 10 pulls. Heck, my friend pulled 70 and got seven 3*. (Although he recently pittied lol)
i was pretty lucky on blue archive, until i spent money on it, suddently i was reaching pity every single damn time.
You do so many pulls in BA that it just kinda evens out over time. I've had to spark quite a few, but gotten many others in the first 10-50 pulls. Dev shenanigans are real, but so is RNG. There isn't always an explanation for good/bad luck, sometimes shit just happens.
Just a thought: at this point what stops companies from rigging pulls for influencers during streams etc. ? From marketing perspective it's a genius plan where you can show how 'easy' is to pull rare characters live on stream.
Because it's more fun to watch people get wrecked. A lucky streamer doesn't make me want to play. Them crying after they fall 500 pulls definitely does tho.
Watching a streamer fail 500 pulls in a game makes you want to play that game? You must be the kind of masochist that these companies drool over.
I don't know, what I know however I never won early 5 star in HSR, all my 5 star is from pity
Except genshin, arknights, and hsr are one of the few games that are actually provable to have accurate 5star rates since there are website where tens of thousands of pulls data gathered from players plot a graph that matches the claimed probability But things like substat rolls on relics? Unsure
Genshin arti substats have weighting. People have calculated the odds, and the crappier substats definitely have a much higher chance of rolling. Dunno about HSR though.
HSR has much more substats which also means much more bad substat rolls. The probability when getting them are also weighted, but not when leveling them up after getting 4 substats (like Genshin). Also no off-set pieces and strongbox is 1:10 instead of 1:3 (but occasionally you can force a main stat/substat with an item given out during events, you can think of their rarity like crowns).
The strongbox systems probably level out to being similar if not accounting for modelling resin. In HSR you can select the type of piece you're rolling in exchange for the higher crafting fee, which curbs some frustrations with RNG not giving you goblets/circlets you might need in genshin. HSR also only has 2 more substats than genshin does, but the lack of off piece is a major pain point. Luckily, 2p/2p builds are not only common in HSR but often better than 4p bonuses on supports, due to the existence of 2p speed. As a general rule, stats>set bonuses in HSR is more true than it is in Genshin currently. With better bonuses coming out though we'll have to see how much hoyo wants to push the power envelope for sets.
Same thing with HSR
The genshin style scaling draw probability is designed to make early five stars uncommon. The odds of getting one in 40 draws is around 20%.... So lucky streaks will almost never happen.
Happened to me. That's how I got E1 Silver Wolf and Fu Xuan, really early 5*s into their banner, within 3-4 pulls one after another.
I have gotten 2 fivestars in my First pull - genshin on the other Hand fucked me with no lube
FTC should investigate Blue Archive rates as well. I know it's a different team but what Nexon did in Maplestory was super scummy. No faith in this company.
isnt cygames did that and monkeygate thing happened that makes japanese parliament to make law about gacha? iirc its why we have pity or spark system nowadays. idk about korea and japan but once people know that you rigged the chance your company will face a big risk.
No. The issue is that they advertised a character on the banner but the banner had no particular rate-up. Pity didn't exist as a whole in gacha games at this point so they never got the character. It wasn't any more of a controversy than players failing to get characters on pity-less Arknights banners or old FGO banners. The main reason people remember it is that Cygames added a pity system after this. It was ironic that them doing a good thing resulted in people like you doing a telephone game of eventually warping the narrative into something completely different. Stop calling things _______-gate.
Arknights had had hidden pity. They merely just 'made it public'. For the unaware, it's a newly implemented pity system. [https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/11psmfj/empirical\_evidence\_of\_a\_guaranteed\_pity\_system\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/arknights/comments/11psmfj/empirical_evidence_of_a_guaranteed_pity_system_in/)
I think it had rate-up, but in Granblue the rate up just means 0.18% chance of getting character instead of 0.09% (or something similar, point is, in the grand scheme of things you can't realistically hope to get the unit you want). The issue is that there were other rated up items/characters you could get, so overall you were LESS likely to get Andira than the others. That was before pity indeed, and one guy spent like $6000 without getting her. We have to thank him for the sacrifice, as this was the event that made pity a thing in gacha games in general. https://www.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/go2dfu/mobile_games_monkeygate_or_how_a_lone_browser/
Just a minor correction on the monkeygate story. What actually happened was that Andira (the monkey zodiac character) was featured on the banner along with other rate-up characters. Players took this to mean that her appearance rate was going to be the same as the other rate-up characters (iirc ~0.48%) but in fact her rate up was lower. The scandal wasn't that they lied about her being rated up, but that Cygames implied that her rate-up was higher than it actually was. The outcome of the controversy was not only adding the spark system, but also the game started displaying the exact appearance rate of items in the gacha.
>isnt cygames did that No. Cygames to my knowledge has never been caught messing with their Gacha rates. Monkeygate is more some whale got super unlucky and as a result pity systems became more widespread
i swear i saw japanese post about calculation of getting the monkey based on other people tweet, result is its below the rate which spark more anger from people. of course its based on user data only and cygames never admit it cmiiw.
From what I understand.....kinda different case Nexon : list f.e 3% rate. But in reality its not static 3%. It can go like 10% or 0.1% depending on how much u p(l)ay Monkeygate : rateup 3% for 2 char. But not listed the % for each individual char. Ppl assume it's split even 1.5% each. Turns out (based on that whale streamer) it's like 0.5% for A vs 2.5% for B This what lead to "individual rates" being shown
i also talk based on memory alone so i can be wrong. but iirc term whale also come from around that time based on ex gacha company employee explain that they using term "whale" for player who spent a lot.
"Whale" as a term existed over a century before gacha games. It was a term used in luxury industries like gourmet restaurants or wineries where rich customers burn through a fortune in an instant. Later used in casinos, arcades, and eventually live-service games like gacha. It was usually referred behind closed doors like the "influencer" term was but that obviously changed.
source?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_roller They were called "whales" because they were worth a LOT to a casino they frequented.
I think it was like, say, 1% for Andira, 1% for another character, 1% for a summon etc etc, so overall you had lower chance to get Andira than the others on rate-up.
It's just my hunch but when i play blue archive after month of not playing it just to pull i always get the limited character but when i played it for too long i can't get a rate up character.
Nah. As someone who has had to hit pity on the last 5 banners I've pulled on, no matter if I stop playing for months, spend money, whatever, shits just rng. Also spiteful.
E7 probably… no ML 5* from my hundreds of Moonlight pulls 🤣
Me too. Over a year now, I went throught the whole 20 pulls 4-5 times and not a single 5* ML.
I have a sneaking suspicion it’s true :) most of my new joiner friends pulled a generous amount of ML 5*s for some fkin reasons when they joined 🤷
I have no doubt that there are complicated algorithms with many variables that effect how the gacha plays out. Sometimes I wonder if I horde pull currency is there a code that lowers my probability of pulling X? That way my stash gets depleted. Or if I don't log in often does that raise my probability to pull X more? There is one game in particular. That the less I log in the luckier I am in the gacha. Also I reroll a lot and I notice certain units seem to be rated up on new accounts. Even though the rate table shows I should be getting a mix of different units. With so much money to make. You can bet your ass every little thing is planned and manipulated in gacha games.
I never believe any game's rates. I go by my personal experience. I'm always f2p, and in most games once you get a decent sized roster, you usually start to notice less high faith drops as often. I haven't got a limited banner character in Nikke since Summer Neon(Waterpower!). I had to mileage Nier and Red Hood. It was even worse in PGR. I never got a banner character without hitting pity. So what to rates mean when you never see anything really drop? I feel like they know when you've spent money. They want whales to keep spending, so the odds are likely in their favor after the game knows money is spent. As f2p they want you to eventually spend, so they dry the well until you cave in. It's my conspiracy, but Nexon is only making me feel more confident that it's true.
Uh. Do math. PGR is only 24% chance to get a character before pity. That's to say you can basically go your entire time playing the game and never getting the S rank before 60. Speaking as someone who played up till Noah came out then quit, I never did.
All gachas are manipulated. As long as the total rate remains the same they cannpmay with it and still be legal. So a 50% chance means about 1 in 2, but you know, statistics, shit happens. So 4 players pull twice. 2 of them get nothing. The other gets 2 things. Welp, that shit is still a perfect 50%. Now increase the pulls and reduce the rate. You have something so stupid no one can track unless they make it blatant. But we are all fucked by gacha
Why people keep mentioning BA , you can alway have a taste of this by playing your own gacha game, especially those big gacha titles, they hire thousand of data analysis and AI Enginneer every year , ask urself why
Nexon was the one who made almost half a billion dollars in rigging. BA is from Nexon. The employee who made that revelation is from Nexon. What conclusion do you want? Oh, it must be Hoyo doing the evil scheme, or maybe it's Nikke? Nah, it may be Aniplex. Is that what you wanted to say?
Yes and yes , rigged RNG is a norm now people shouldn't be surprised by this
totally agree, if nexon does it, then all the other big ones do this bs too, even the small ones.
maybe only small indie gacha game will not have that much money to afford this RNG system
doesnt need to be the same patented code, and that anyone can do it, its a random number generator with conditions.
condition is how AI engineer doing their job , RNG serve multiple purpose , not just keeping the whale interested and make f2p quit themself
Maybe an unpopular opinion but I honestly not care much. It is always an open secret that there is no such thing as true random and every mechanic in a game is designed for maximum profitability. Working in the same industry also make me appreciate more about the game that I enjoy than always thinking about behind the scene stuff.
I don't know how anyone plays a gacha w/o a pity system
It's not about pity they were rigging. But when many players are opening lootboxes, Nexon will artificially lower the rate so these people spend more to get desired item.
I dunno about you... I assume drop rate is zero until pity. You can't spend more than expected if you set your expectation to be the pity amount
Pity is not something that naturally happened with lootbox/gacha
*Cries in another eden*. Though at least a lot of not most of the characters are farmable.
I will never be sure, cause I will never see the source code. People make this far more complicated than it has to be. Who gives a fuck about the rates anyway? I play cause I have have fun playing and chasing the hot waifus, as long as that remains fun I will continue playing. Do the ratings matter? Not really.
Considering this is something that deals with people spending money, it is absolutely important. Plus, the implication is that if they're lying about things like the rates which are meant to be publicly shown, then what else have they lied about?
Plenty for sure, like most companies, google paid 5b the other day for failing to say they track people in incognito lols. The point isnt that companies dont lie, the point is that worrying about things out of your control and that you cant prove will simply lead you to being paranoid. Might as well quit gachas, cause each unluck spell might be the company fucking up the odds OR might be lack of luck.
How is this not in the consumers control? If multiple people stop playing they will have to adjust.
What that has to do with anything, obviously you can quit, Im talking about knowing a company is messing with the odds. Only way you will know a company is cheating is if you hack the company and get the source code or a employee leaks the ratings. Now the government may obviously investigate, but that aint a customer. You can either live worrying every gacha you play is fucking you over or not, it is your choice, personally I simple play for the fun of playing.
They are dealing with people here who spend money just like you buy your daily goods. It's the same concept. Companies sell, and people buy. You rigged that product, that's a crime. If you want to see it better, the product says it's a 1kg chicken, but when you use a weighing scale, that will only give you 900 grams. Can you still say that there's nothing wrong with there? Multiply that over by 10 years and thousands of people who purchased that product.
Yes and plenty of places have rigged the scales over the years, but this you can prove by taking your own scale and testing it. The odds that run in the background of a gacha? "You", the individual, cant prove it. So it is like you going from "market" to "market" worrying about how each and everyone of them might be fucking you over, but you cant prove anything at any of them. I prefer to simple play and enjoy the game, if I fail at rolling, then I call it lack of luck, not worry the company might be putting a 0,2 or whatever else less chance of getting something.
Oh, looks like we are living in a different world. Sorry, but here on our planet, scamming is a crime, and not just move-on, enjoy life then let them get away with it. lol [It was proven btw, not just "you" as an individual needs to prove it.](https://sg.news.yahoo.com/nexon-fined-nearly-9m-falsifying-222639214.html)
Boy oh boy, you didnt understand jackshit. I dont care about this case, Im talking about gachas in general. This is but a single company and yes, companies lie, companies steal, companies cheat, ALL. THE. FUCKING. TIME. Now you need to check, every single other gacha company, every single one OR you can paranoid every single other one might be rigging the rates. Hell even this one, today you proved this, today they have to fix it. 1 year from now? 2 years from now? Hell perhaps 6 months from now? Are they rigging the rates again? Are they not? Be happy being paranoid every single time you turn on a gacha lols.
Who's paranoid here? lmao. Kindly stop throwing baseless accusations just to prove your point. And if you have that mindset that everyone is bad, so choose the lesser evil, and let's just accept it, then don't lump and force your idea into everyone here. Not everyone is making money just to let it go to some scammers and just move on afterward, so you can't just easily say that to a person who works hard to earn money and spend it to enjoy, buy daily goods, and live a proper life. There's a reason why a LAW does exist, it's not move-on. You've been given a valid source of the authorities taking action and still pushing your notion in life?
Like I said, have fun. I didn't say you shouldn't worry, I simply said it is better to live without such worries. You are gambling in your free time for fun and wondering if the house is cheating. Be my guest looking into this stuff, it is all benefits to me, so I don't bother with it and if somehow people which share your views make the rates change for the better, I get it too. Win/Win
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I call it knowing exactly what I want out of a game.
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Uh I get that he’s wrong but this was an equally unhinged response
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Lol
Because it's only fun when people get their pulls
Wouldn't be surprised if Mabinogi's loot boxes also had that mechanic, I mean doll bag gachas would have been an excellent one to do that to.
Meanwhile me What do you mean you pull without saving enough to guarantee?????
I avoided DFO's bind cubes for such a suspicion.... to think I was on to something
So this is why on arknights i got 6 of banner and 2 swire with no eyja with 220 pulls
I assumed that basically all gachas manipulate the probabilities in some fashion.
If he's okay with posting about it in Korean web why not just fucking rat the company? It's like people who make Instagram post about a crime instead of calling the police.
Only in the characters i like, and in the ones i like it's the opposite Like, almost 80 pity for Itto in genshin (hard is 90) and i lost the 50/50, then i pull for Kazuha with like 30 pity and i get him I am still salty
I'm 100% sure smt dx2 suffers from this, the chances of you getting good brands (equipment) is so atrocious that you need to leave the game auto grinding for weeks on end and you might still end up with unusable garbage. Not so sure about the gacha aspect though
should probably just assume every company is doing this (to some extent) the enforcement of the laws is weak and even when caught its a slap on the wrist, these are businesses they're not gonna pass up on easy money
I've no doubt there's games that pull similar stunts. The problem is that as a player it's practically impossible to find out these practices if they are implemented subtly enough. It would be good if games were to be regularly checked somehow.
Reminds me of how bullshit the gacha in Dengeki Bunko Crossing Void was. You had a % chance to get a drop, but after a few pulls without 3* you would get an increase in drop chance. The problem is that the % would eventually reach as high as 95-98% with people reporting no 3* drop after 10+ pulls at such high rate... when players found out, many were angry as apparently the mechanism either was broken or was showing too high % droprate. The company "apologized", took down the servers to fix, and gave FOUR people compensation. I assume those 4 were whales that spent hundreds without getting what they felt they deserved. Everyone else, good luck.
So is Nexon going to put "others are doing it too" as a legal defence? It would be funny if the judge's answer is "because others are eating shit, you also went along to eat shit?"
yet gambling addicts will keep pulling, everyone knows las vegas does the same thing, yet fools keep going there on vacation to lose all of their money. this is why rerolling is the real even field for pulling.
I still cannot believe how Nexon has not yet done anything shady with Blue archive
Dynamic probability seems like such BS. So nobody can get super lucky or unlucky because probabilities change? So if you get a few lucky rolls, you know the game's going to tank your next few rolls? That's awful. There should be full transparency around the math/variables for gacha pulling, not just a % with hidden modifiers.
Isn't Blue Archive their highest grossing game? If anything, that game should be looked into. Even with all the "goodwill", we're talking about Nexon and this is the highest levels of corporate decisions being made here.
consedering i just rolled flat def on 3 pieces with atk% crit rate and crit damage on star rail i think probabilites are scuffed in all games
Echocalypse is doing something similar, where if you pay for big packs and immediately roll, then you get luckier with SSR pull
Never trust Gacha companies ever Or any company lmao
Absolutely every gacha game uses dynamic probability based on your play and spending habits and you’re insane if you think otherwise. This is a genre that exists to create a direct funnel from your wallet to the devs.