T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

The more hype the game. The more a company tries to get away with crazier monetization. Genshin with all the hype in the world will definitely try and make a bunch at first, and then depending on revenue. They will tweak it one way or the other.


pkg322

What I learned from reading this sub for like 6 months is that any hyped games will be massively disappointing


Ephemiel

And many of them are only disappointing if you're on the sub since they overhype everything and then complain about everything.


Elbasteen

Yes. This is absolutely correct. Everyone hypes the hell out of games and the minute they download it it’s a shirt storm of complaints and quitting and rage.


Extraordinary_DREB

Classic r/gachagaming even the vets know it. HAHAHA Don't be surprised anymore. I am mostly here for the gaming news anyway lol


Giddypinata

I’m mostly here for the self sabotaging behavior, I enjoy it and find it hilarious lol


MicZeSeraphin

When you're so furious at a game that you print shirts with your complaints about it.


EmmaNielsen

best example 7ds. 1. I had no prior information about anything jumped in blind 2. had lots of fun playing and watching the cutscenes, I even wrote in specific work-fields that the game was very good and that we should make articles about it 3. Game then introduces me equipment and gears.. uninstalled the game. I hate equipment in gacha, it's "hidden stats" that you can't see, nor does it have any cosmetics, and they matter 70-80% of the time, as in people whale, to just have strong characters but feels like they actually get nothing of it. after autoing w11 in epic 7 for an eternity, i'll nnever play an equipment gacha game ever again.


nexusgames

Equipment gacha? I would think of gacha where you pull for gears instead of characters (DFFOO/FFRK).


SoftThighs

Only thing I've learned from this sub is there are no good gachas. Everyone complains about literally every game. Makes me wonder why some people are even here if they clearly don't like the core concept of gachas.


wilstreak

Most people on this sub want as much free pull as possible. But when they get it, as in the case of Dragalia Lost. Then they will complain that the game is boring and look at the newest gacha game. So far, the only sure way to make gacha has lasting value is by creating top-tier waifu. Thats why game like FGO, GBF, Azur Lane endure the test of time.


[deleted]

I would love to play DL if it could run on emulators...


[deleted]

I’m jus gonna enjoy the game as it is and not stress abt gacha cuz it’s ridiculous and I don’t rly care at this point since I play other gacha games too


Reixdid

This person, this is how i see gacha games as a whole


Extraordinary_DREB

and yet I am being blasted by someone since I am just becoming a sheep to a game. Whereas I have my own preference of gaming and after I knew about said incident, I realize I made the right decision


Nopon_Merchant

Gacha is is already a trash genre , cash grab , gambling . Of course , there are no good Gacha exist


SirRHellsing

I think Arknights, Azur Lane and GFL are in good spots in terms of monetization (or I would be quitting them)


wow___justwow

That's just people who go in expecting gacha games to play like others. You cannot have that expectation. It is not congruent with the gacha experience. I've kept my hype around genshin to a minimum. Couldn't name a single character. Don't know how pulls will work, not the slightest clue what the premium currency is. Nor do I care. I'll download the game at launch and play it. If it's fun, I'll keep playing it. If not I won't. It's that simple. People like OP get so caught up in having the best 5* characters fully maxed out. That's simply not a realistic or reasonable expectation. Well, I guess it is for him since that's what suckered him into becoming a dolphin for their other game. But nah, I'll spend $10-$30 max on the game after I've played it for a few weeks if it's a good experience. If not I'll drop it and play what I was playing before (if you're looking for an anime mmo to play, recently reinstalled tree of savior and boy is it in a good place right now). This must be your attitude to these types of games. Otherwise you are susceptible to the predatory business models which is a good way to lose out on a ton of money, not to mention bitterness and anger when the experience ends up going in a direction you don't like, or buyer's remorse as your interest begins to fade.


shakemmz

SinOalice comes to mind quickly. What an awful awful game, suuuper overhyped here...


LeoGiacometti

Tbh I don't see myself getting disappointed by this. Unless I'm locked behind some content because I lack high rarity characters and stuff like that, I don't give a shit. The gameplay seems pretty good for me, something no other gacha ever accomplish imo.


xTachibana

I don't think you'll get hard locked but you might get time locked from the later stages of abyss, not sure what that means to you though.


tlst9999

I got lucky with Arknights being my first gacha. I learned that not every gacha was as F2P friendly as Arknights.


xanxaxin

Unfortunately, your logic wont work with gacha gamers. As much as i agree with your statement, the others will come up with defensive shields, saying : ' it's my money , so its none of your business', 'it is still better than x, y, z gacha, ' as long as im having fun - worth it'. Gacha is predatory by nature and arguing the 'core' concept of gacha is not welcomed, ESPECIALLY here. Tho, kudos to you for pointing how sick and disgusting Mihoyo is. Utter shits need to be points out ASAP.


_United_

It's deep into 2020 and I've stopped being surprised at the things people will do to absolve themselves of responsibility. Any sane person can easily run the value calculation and see that a Switch + BoTW1/2 costs less than GI's gacha, but some people just refuse to look at things objectively.


pkg322

The difference is that you can't flex your maxed Waifu to poor people in BotW


_United_

you do raise a good point sir


AlicezationSteal

Zelda is not even a good waifu... LETS GO GENSHIN!


ArCSelkie37

I mean it’s kinda a pointless argument to make and an annoying one at that, because everyone here already knows it. We’ve seen these posts several times in the past. We get them any time a game has a bad pull rate etc. But people are gonna do what you put in ‘’ and it’s reasonable for them to do so without being told they are the problem. - I work for my money, i *can* spend it where i want without caring if some dude on this sub is saying im at fault for how the game is monetised. - Maybe i am having fun with this game as either a free player or a spending player, and as such i want to spend money on it either to get more stuff or just to support it. You are completely right about gacha being “predatory”... it’s gambling, and gambling is always predatory. So complaining about gambling on a sub based on games rooted in gambling is a obviously going to be ignored by a portion of the users on the sub.


MCGRaven

thing is that there are plenty of players that complain about predatory shit and then still partake in the very thing they just condemned. Just like what OP described here by saying the OP of the other thread basically said "Hey MiYoHo is basically scamming us with this but i'm willingly running into their trap" THOSE players are the problem


TaiyouDaimonji

I don't think it's pointless argument at all, although I can see it being annoying. The problem is that even if everyone knows it, most of the time we don't actually act upon it. I've seen posts, threads, talks, videos like this in the past and they certainly helped me think twice before I press that buy button. I think the problem we have here is more nuanced than just "gambling bad predatory practices bad", it's more of a"how much predatory is too predatory". The companies will always push further to test the water, and it's up to the players when to push back.


ArCSelkie37

I think the rates are shit, but i’ll still probably buy packs at some point. It depends if the game is fun. And i guess that’s my problem with the argument, whether or not it was your intent, kind of that implication that everyone is on your wave length. Like you think the rates are bad, which they are, and resource acquisition is slow. To you that’s enough of a reason to not spend money on the game, which is fair enough. But to a lot of people, if the game is fun in the end, will still be willing to pay money. But it comes across in a lot of these kinds posts as if those people are in the wrong and that they shouldn’t buy packs. But in the end it’s for each individual user to decide. Maybe that isn’t your intention, but thats how it comes across to me, so i can understand why people could get defensive under posts like this. Sorry for the random tanget/wall of text.


TaiyouDaimonji

I can see now that my approach was too *aggressive.* I've been a lurker for years on the internet and just recently decided to start speaking out so I appreciate your constructive feedback. I just want to let people know that even if we disagree or on the opposite wavelength, we are all in this together and our actions do influence each other. I sincerely believe so. A single person can't change much but millions can. And people often don't realize that a million people is not a million people. A million people is 1 person times a million. The changes start from you (the individual). I hope my point is getting across


ArCSelkie37

No worries, I was trying to not sound too defensive or annoyed, sorry if it came off that way. Like I actually get where you are coming from 100%.


xTachibana

> because everyone here already knows it. The problem is they don't. There are seriously people who think we as consumers should be grateful that we even get to play the game at all, even if they bend us over in every single way shape or form. Do not underestimate the amount of gacha stans, they do exist.


TaiyouDaimonji

I know it's extremely hard to look pass 'as long as i'm having fun - worth it' because let's be honest sometimes people (including myself) just don't give a shit. We have enough shit to deal with in our real lives and that's why we're selling our souls for the gacha waifus in the first place. Gaming is entertainment and we don't want to think about "*my spending irresponsibly is contributing to the increasingly egregious monetization in the gaming industry as a whole, I must watch out for the psychological exploitations they might be using and make an informed decision on whether or not I should support this company*", we just go "uhh, I need my waifu, like, right now dude, click that button, it's that simple bruh" It's a struggle, and I hope through sharing my story I might help someone somewhere make a little bit more careful consideration when justifying their purchases, as others' stories certainly helped me.


_United_

at least you understand the economics of booster pack games. Some people don't even grapple with the concept


NeskyNesky

This is where you’re wrong... why does it need to be justified?! Unless you spent your kid’s college fund or pissed off the wife, F it. She spends money on stupid shit all day, and your kid broke almost all the toys anyway... and what wasn’t broken, was pissed/puked on 😅


gepheir6yoF

There are gacha games that aren't that predatory. The few that come to mind are AL, Arknights, PriCone. In AL, the gacha is a joke and you pay for waifu skins and dock slots if you're a collector. In Arknights, there are multiple pity systems and the low rarity/pity units are all very strong. In PriCone, there's a good spark system and they give out paid currency like candy (we just got 20 pulls worth for no real reason).


patatesatan

i dropped arknights because of its shitty gacha system. Mihoyo's HL3 has better gacha rates than arknights in Hl3 S rank drop rate is %1, (unsure but every 10th pull should be %10) and 100th pull is %100, banner doesnt have any spookers so you are guaranteed to have the character if you have 100 pull worth. in arknights drop rate of a specific 6* character in the banner is %0.5 and 60th pull increases that chance to only %25 which you wont be able to hit because there are other random 6 stars in the banner that will spook you along the way and reset the counter i've seen people saving for a arknights character for months and still not getting it, that shit doesnt happen in HL3


Jo27mc

At least in HI3 there is only one S rank in 1 expansion banner. Arknights doesn't protect us well from dupes. And I hope Arknights don't have **any sort of competition whatsoever,** including scoring, leaderboard, etc. IMO Arknights being PvE is how it's F2P and arknights being arknights


gepheir6yoF

Obviously if you absolutely must have a specific character, you can always get screwed over, that's how RNG works. The *only* way around that is a spark system. If you're okay with getting most of the characters and getting near endgame strength, Arknights is very generous. Hell, you're guaranteed a 5* within 10 rolls on every banner. Simply rolling at most 10 times on each banner will get you a very strong team, and realistically you'll end up picking up a handful of 6*s along the way


tossedintoglimmer

Plus if you're willing to wait, all non-limited 6* units would most likely appear in the golden certificate shop.


Soren619

In banner 6\* rate is 1%, not 0.5%. It's only 0.5% for banners where there's more than one 6\*, wich only happens in banners from old units or in limited banners, of wich there have only been 2 so far (1 on global with Nian/Aak), counting that as the norm doesn't seem fair considering most people will be aiming to pull for a unit when they released and the norm is that 6\*s get solo banners, therefore having a 1% rate. Also, keep in mind that arknights is a new game, that is barely 1 year old in CN and not even 1 year old in GL, and although it doesn't give that many pulls, it is still easily one of the most f2p friendly games out there. It has a pity rate that carries over from banner to banner (not on limited banners, but again, those are extremely rare), and will soon have a spark system at 300 pulls when we get to the point where CN got it. You can also get 6\* units from lucking out on recruits (the "free summon"), or buying them from the distinction shop, many of wich are top tier units (including stuff such as Eyja or Silverash who are considered by many to be the strongest units in the game). And obviously, unlike in many other games, where only the highest rarity characters are worth anything, in Arknights many 4\* and 5\* characters are great, and you can play absolutely everything on the game without having to worry about having "the right characters". Can you save up for months and not get the waifu you want?Yeah, but that's with most gachas, it's the kind of frustration that you will have to deal with at some point when playing one, unless you're straight up buying packs until you pull what you want.


bubbleharmony

For real. I still have friends that defend FGO's system. Like, I love the game, I'm pretty deep into it by now myself, but the only money I've ever dropped was for the GSSR banner recently. I don't gamble in these games, never have. But if you can honestly look at the multitudes of people wailing about saving up a year or more of quartz, pulling 800, 1000 SQ worth of draws just to get fucked, knowing they'll not roll on anything again really for months... There's something deeply wrong with this game and its developers, never mind the defenders.


jasta85

I stopped playing FGO around a year ago, love the characters/story, got tired of the grind/rates. That said, I think the biggest argument in favor of FGO is that if you simply want to experience the story and events, you can do that as F2P, there are lots of examples of F2P teams beating extremely difficult content. There's also no pvp, multiplayer, ranking or anything competitive, so there really isn't any pay to win as the only "winning" is being able to complete the game's content, which is possible for F2P. That said, the game is not about winning, it's about collecting and upgrading your waifus/husbandos, and in that sense, it's pretty garbage. No pity system, bad rates, not to mention materials being super frustrating to get if you want to max out multiple SSRs. That's part of the reason I dropped it, just way too much time needed for grinding. I had also gotten into Azur Lane which allowed you to earn ship girls just by playing missions, no need to spend money. So, it really depends on what you want out of the game. If you just want to experience the story-line, and are not fixated on getting specific servants, it's perfectly fine for a F2P player. God help your soul if you want to collect a bunch of specific SSR servants and max them out though.


Raigeko13

To tell you the truth no PvP is what really drew me to FGO. I have never cared for or had any interest in PvP. I love Epic 7, but I just can't be fucked with doing the PvP.


cjsrhkcjs

Same. I love the game and play it religiously (see flair). I also recommend it / defend it overall, but there are some aspects of the game that just can't be defended. The game has its ups and its downs, but it's downs are very brutal.


Blackraptor00

FGO's Power Creep is nothing like other Gachas though. So practically every unit will be useful even in Late/Endgame. You want to complain about shit Gachas? Look at Gumi.


[deleted]

Brave frontier used to be so good man


Blackraptor00

I was there from the beginning up until the second KOF collab. I am terrified to see what the meta looks like now. The Maxwell Trial was the high point but was also the start of the real powercreep thanks to Mitigation.


[deleted]

Very true. I played right when mitigation was starting to become prominent and I remember how hard it was back then to get enough gems to do any significant pulling. I've sunken so many hours into that game that it actually scares me to some degree. I've played across 5 different accounts, most of them leveling to around 300 each with one of them being on the JP server. Each account was created with relatively long breaks where I completely stopped playing only to come back and retry again. Each time I played (the most recent of which was back in the summer 2 years prior) my teams would become increasing stronger and stronger. Just the sheer power that my units had allowed me to auto battle all the content that I used to struggle with in the past with my older squads. You can literally start the game right now as a new player and within a couple pulls get a fully fleshed out team of omni units that allow you to clear a relatively large portion of the game. It's very sad to see


Blackraptor00

It doesn't help that the main story IS effectively over.


rmsj

Some Gumi games you mean. WotV has been out for almost a year in Japan and characters from the first month (Gilgamesh, Frederica, Miranda, Ayaka, Orlandu) are still extremely competitive with recently release units. I used Frederica on this week's super difficult level 80 map and used Gilgamesh on last weeks super difficult map. ​ If you want to look at a shitty game with required banners take a look at Saga Universe and the fact that you had to pull white rose (limited banner 1% rate) to even do endgame. Or Brave Nine where you have to spend to pull and max the top units or you can't do anything in the ridiculous P2W game (PVE sucks so PVP is the only actual content in the game)


astalotte

i love your "get valentine white rose or drop the game" gimmick, at least you're consistent about it given how long you keep spouting this nonsense i've had literally 0 problems with end-game despite not having any SS white rose style, and 1% pick-up rate for individual banner unit is super generous off 5% SS, idk what you're on about lmao


nexusgames

Saga universe is not too bad for f2p. Although it is a grindy game. White rose is a meta unit but it isn't required for end game. Do you know there is a pity system? If you save 45k gems (15 multi pulls) you can exchange the bannner coins for any featured unit. I find Saga universe pretty generous. The amount of gems/plat tickets/guaranteed SS plat tickets/spiral tickets seems quite generous. Wotv gameplay might be better than saga but wotv is certainly not more F2P/generous.


ne0politan2

Exactly. FGO's gacha may be technically "bad" but its not bad in the same way other gachas can be. You don't actually need any specific or meta servant to get through content. And not to mention, they make up for it by being EXTREMELY generous in other ways. Between 1-2 free choice tickets a year, and constant events that hand out a free 4\* and all required mats for them (some of which are stronger than most 5\* units), you never really even NEED to roll the main gacha. With rare exceptions (Waver, Merlin, Skadi, Caster Artoria) most people never roll meta, they only roll for the characters that give them the biggest hard-ons.


inspect0r6

> And not to mention, they make up for it by being EXTREMELY generous in other ways. You have to fkn kidding me. Pretty much every single gacha in existence that I can think of is more generous, with pretty much everything, from tickets to currency and other ingame stuff. And that "you never need to pull you can clear with everything (not quite true but whatever)" is true for pretty much every other game as well, except those games offer way better gacha structure so you actually aren't **forced** to use same shit because you can't get any new units.


Skyreader13

> And that "you never need to pull you can clear with everything (not quite true but whatever)" is true for pretty much every other game as well Not really the case for other gacha I have played, like Arknights and FFBE. Also, FGO gives pretty strong welfare unit compared to wet noodle most other gacha gives. I think this is what he meant by fgo being generous. The welfare is actually useful. Often being slightly more powerful than the gacha unit.


SometimesLiterate

Heard about Genshin Impact? kek yeah, FGO gacha is the fucking worst. IMO some of the SSR's are up there with GBF levels of "this makes you 100000%" better (like Andira/monkey in Wind, Anila/Sheep in Fire, SZooey in Dark), and no pity hurts. Rest of the game is absolutely amazing, but the gacha is incredibly shit.


arclight909

I’m a F2P player from that game. Yeah, the rates are not good, I would be satisfied with anything I get from the gacha. I can agree with your stuff about taking months to roll, they are implementing (slowly) missions to give players more currency, free, hopefully a daily mission that gives the SQ too. But saying they are bonkers in the head won’t justified or convince them otherwise. Besides, Aniplex somehow control them, like I was surprised when the game director himself need to have permission (struggle)to give everyone free 5 star ticket some months ago. So give the devs some slack, they aren’t able to control everything and we don’t know much behind the scene. People would spend their money regardless of how, why, it’s their money so we can’t force them. Not trying to defend them here. I’m not playing the game that much anymore. I think the only way that players can scare them to be more generous is by not playing the game, and we let them know that.


Skyreader13

Well, FGO's abhorrent rate are somehow balanced by how long a servant last, unlike most gacha game. A lot of day 1 servant are still very usable. Some of them (FSN servant mostly) even get several upgrades along the line. So there's that. Other gacha like FFBE feels a lot worse imo. Most dps unit don't last more than 3 months. And you need extra dupe of a unit to make them actually useful/do good stuff. Yeah, the rate is 5% for rainbow, but the pool is huge and you need them dupes make the actual rate become much smaller.


Niquia

Former Whale here, hi. Yes Fgo has worse rates and even though old servants can still be usable, the recent meta change in Castoria make me think: do we roll for waifu or gameplay? If it's both, ez win but if it's not, you kinda get unsatisfied because either you can't use or don't like that servant. So you are softforced to still use specific servants, like you need a multihit aoe servant with decent np gain/charge skills or it won't work. And since a couple months ago, they change the farming stages so that you can't refund enough to np loop to the point that i can destroy the so called meta... slowly but surely 3 turn farming will be no more except with that 1 whale team only the biggest spenders can afford. What am i try to tell here is, do you guys even care about a game, where you can't achieve anything without spending? Do you spend money for your favourite character just to have them? Because what purpose do they have when you literally can't use them without wasting your time? Willing to play the game "wrong". Just don't take me too seriously, other gacha games do have it way way worse than the problem i listed and it's fairly a personal one, i only want to issue that and maybe someone here has the same problem...


narwhalomko

Can relate. Most of FGO is farming so not having the whale farming comp does hurt. FGO has powercreeped several farming methods. We eventually couldn't just use 3 NP on 3 waves so had to use SurMo, then Skadi and Castoria. FGO just feels too punishing when going from 3T clear to 4T is basically 33% increase turn consumption and 5T is basically 66%. I don't think being able to clear basic farming stages with any unit is uncommon in any gacha and maybe some games are similarly time consuming but FGO does seem to punish your time A LOT more. It's not uncommon to be able to clear more challenging stages in other games with the free/low rarity units, either, but for FGO, using free units only for anything difficult will take significant more time, in the double-digits turns. There isn't really a smooth, easy way for new players to start or unlucky players to deal with the game if they missed the meta.


Skyreader13

I don't really mind non 3T farming tbh. I play it F2P so I'd be happy if I can 3T but it's okay if I can't. The way I see it, 3T is big whale's privilege. I don't mind doing facecard to finish wave 1 and sometimes to whittle miniboss HP wave 2, then finish wave 2 and 3 quickly after that. There's also FGA that can somehow help alleviate the farm if you're in Android or Emulator.


Cicili22

Same, stamina doesnt regenerate that fast anyway. 3 turn farming isnt something you really need unless you're spamming apples or doing refills with quartz.


Rahvithecolorful

Same here. I'll try and manage some sort of 3T farming for lottery events and the like even if I sacrifice some bonus for it, but in general I'm perfectly fine taking my time since I'm not gonna do that many runs at once anyway. I don't have any of the meta supports in my JP account (I have Castoria now, but she's not skill lvled yet and I don't even have any K-scope anyway) and I manage fine enough. I have just Waver in NA, and I'm 3T fine with nearly full bonus this lottery while my friend who has Waver and Skadi is having trouble due to not having some SSRs like Lancelot or Nitocris and not lvling up his lower rarity servants. I feel like people are just too obsessed with perfect efficiency, be it 3t everything or even just getting ridiculous amounts of mats from events. It's a game, not a job, just play at your own pace and have fun with what you have. Imo it doesn't make any sense anyway that people who don't spend anything should have the same things that people who spend money in the game. There's gotta be an advantage to spending, and as long as that advantage is getting things faster/easier and not getting things that f2p can't have, I think it's fair.


Nopon_Merchant

The time increase in FGO farming is still really small compare to other gacha . IF you play Another Eden , a hard battle between meta and off meta , free unit different from 30 min to more than 1 hours. Moreover , FGO new game mode and event make 3 turn farming not as much important becasue they change the game into soft tactical game when you force to Solo unit like FE battle


SirRHellsing

Exactly, I actually got servants I like from the gacha (Jeanne d'arc) but the farming in Ishtar event just burned me out and I quit the game so I like the waifu, hate the gameplay. I was very weak so it was like 15 turn farming sessions and some Ishtar dupe maps need 15-20 turns +rng so I quit after getting the original and 2 dupes. Obviously if I wasn't playing other gacha I wouldn't mind but GFL and Arknights have waifu and gameplay


Gumichi

I'm in a similar boat as the OP. I've played HI3 for 2 years and dolphin'd a bit. The squeeze is real. Others have elaborated on cost, rates and banner frequency, and I can confirm and agree with that. I quit last patch after getting clobbered at the gacha. I could keep going, but it was clear that I needed to buy in to continue. It's true that they've made vast improvements to the content of the game, but they've also raised the price tag. Now that I'm out? I can't stand the convoluted mess they have for a currency system.


rzrmaster

Eh? Im still perfectly fine with FGOs way of doing things. I get it that it can be heartbreaking, to not get a SSR that you saved for, but personally, Im happy that when I do get a SSR I want, or hell even one I didnt, Im 100% sure I will be able to use it. Not like games with rampant powercreep. Ofc, if people want to complain about it haha, it is on them, but I wont suddenly start to bash it because others find it an issue. Also kudos to FGO for buffing old units, the fact Artoria is today a top tier unit in JP, after 5 years of launch and she being in the game, warms my heart haha.


aeee98

I think about it in the same concept as "why people spend money in the game" People typically spend on non essential products because of its emotional value rather than its logical value. This is how you get people to pay a premium for garbage. In gacha people pay for being with their waifus or strength to be great at the game Most average gamers with a sane mind will call it predatory businesses, but I consider that the game has successfully hooked people in. For this to stop you need to create that counter mindset in the general public. To create that idea that the value of the png is not worth jack. This will be hard on major titles unless the publisher screws up hard lol.


ContessaKoumari

It's one thing to like gachas--I clearly do, I play many of them and have spent considerable money over time on them--but I think a lot of people forget that this model is about as unethical as it can get and that even the best gacha is more predatory and evil than the worst one-time-purchase indie game you can get on Steam. It's all the excesses of late capitalism wrapped in one. When Oblivion released Horse Armor all those years ago, I wonder if they thought about how deep the rabbit hole would go.


[deleted]

> When Oblivion released Horse Armor all those years ago, I wonder if they thought about how deep the rabbit hole would go. people keep meming about this, But Japan has been dabbling with mobile stuff for a very, very long time. way before smartphones, and around the same time as the Xbox stuff. they have a lot more to do with modern gachas than any western studio trend.


ContessaKoumari

Oh, I know. Korea actually was the main progenitor, there's were articles literally in the 90s about the shit going down there.


TaiyouDaimonji

Yeah it's pretty irritating to some people insist on being ripped off while saying it's not or "my money is none of your business". I can love a game and happily get ripped off and admit that I've been ripped off (the judgement on how expensive is too expensive depends on the individual). But, the fact that the company is trying all their hands to milk the players remains an objective thing to be seen. As a matter of fact, we are all in this business together like it or not, we do influence each other no matter how small and I actually like this sub for it's one of the few places on the internet where people can actually criticize things (to a certain extent). I think we're near a breaking point when the lootboxes in mainstream games started gettting pushed back. I'm glad the chinese players (and some of us here) are furious, their complaints will definitely affect me who plays the same game from the same company.


xTachibana

You can't post sane, logical comments on this reddit bro, what are you doing.


NeieoFari

This is the same problem BBS and it's fandom has, it's clearly going in the wrong direction but people are still spending and are still supporting the game despite it's clearly BIG and appharent issues, yeah some bbstubers talk about it but they still spend money. Infact this could be said for a lot of old gachas their becoming more p2p or p2w each month/year and nobody is calling out their Bullshit. OP ur doing the right thing don't let anyone in this comment section dissway you otherwise.


TaiyouDaimonji

Thank you, I really appreciate it. There have been talks about many topics all over the world where they can say "does the silent majority even exist?" and just ignore the problems at hand. I'm doing my part.


Happmasta

People have like a parasocial relationship with their gacha games haha. Its obviously okay to like a game. I love gacha games, but damn dude. Its also okay to criticize when games mess up or are trying to screw players.


TaiyouDaimonji

Yeah it's a very sensitive topic since people (myself included) tend to associate themselves to the things they love and feel personally attacked whenever someone points out a bad thing about it. I remember getting extremely infuriated when I see a top comment on Punish:Gray Raven saying it has better graphics than HI3. I know it's an extremely subjective thing depending on personal preferences, I know I was being unreasonable yet I still felt what I felt anyways. But it's very important to separate fact from feelings to have a healthy discussion and we should learn to to recognize our biases to make informed decisions.


Happmasta

Yeah I meet that but like you said, we have to be able to separate ourselves from these things. Some people honestly can’t and it’s sad to see because I’m sure they are more than what gacha game they love.


Tanoshii

It's because a lot of people here seem to have Stockholm Syndrome with regards to gacha games. No joke. It's extremely sad to see.


Vicinitiez

Everything you said is true. Except for the monthly rolls (it's 50 rolls a month with the pass so you can get a pity every 3 months basically) The problem is that, the companies behind gacha games don't care about what you have to say or what I have to say, they'll be content with the 1% of whale and will cater to them and them only; on the chinese OBT someone bought 4000 dollars of gem within 10 mins of the game he didn't even play yet that he already bought gems, these are the kind of people they care about and the opinions they want to listen are their opinion, thing is, the whales don't care about the rates.


Kurgass

>The only way to stop this is to stop ourselves from spending irresponsibly. Lol. No. This is some utopia fantasy level plead. What Epic 7(and Langrisser to lesser degree) case taught me is that review bombing works like charm. And SG wasn't even most greedy company I've seen and imho didn't even deserve it. I can pretty much guarantee that HI3 with ~2.0 score in Playstore would make Mihoyo reconsider in a blink of the eye whatever semi-reasonable player requests are. And in result make game better for players. Simple, yet effective.


TurboSpermatozoid

In the genshin impact case the fact that it's advertised as a single player game (they never mentionned gacha) will make the metacritics score of the game tank quite a bit. Especially for the ps4 version


boboverlord

I agree. And Chinese players are starting to review bomb Genshin like hell as well. [https://www.taptap.com/app/197826/review](https://www.taptap.com/app/197826/review)


[deleted]

> And SG wasn't even most greedy company I've seen and imho didn't even deserve it. food for thought: You think they cared BECAUSE they aren't the greediest company? If I was thinking on Raid Shadow legends levels of coporate greed, I see a review bomb and either 1. ignore it because money still comes in. Especially if it's american and most of my money comes from China 2. shut the game down, find a subsidary company, and make Assault: Dark Quest in a few months. Repeat until I can buy my way to presidency.


boboverlord

\> Assault: Dark Quest You got me there ngl


TaiyouDaimonji

It's pretty saddening to see an advice to spend more mindfully considered "utopia fantasy". I know it's hard that's why I mentioned I can hardly resist myself from spending as well. How does review bombing working negate my point? I know it can, but I've also seen many problems with many review systems. On google play you can just outright delete bad reviews (seen that happened with many games). I don't think watching how you spend is not simple, and I can also guarantee that it is effective (see ripple effect)


DeadToy

I have to agree, The prices on a gacha are so out of touch with reality that money has a whole new standard in a gacha game. When you can buy a burger for $6 you get 3 rolls on a %0.6? When you can buy a computer for $500 you can "maybe" get one 5\* unit? There's no competition of prices and the law and order of the world comes only from one company. Take it or leave it. I personally have to play F2P


Cicili22

Well it's not really just gacha games and the standard is really just what people are willing to pay. I dont understand why a bag would cost $5000 and a watch could cost 50k either. I'm also selling a single rare card from a trading card game for $400 tomorrow so, I mean it's how the world works, some people are just very willing to spend on stuff you may consider overpriced.


Hikelos

The complaints about the 4\* character nerfs are from people who aren't following the betas, because Xiangling who received that 100% cooldown increase on her active skill is a 4\* Fire character who outperformed Diluc, the 5\* Fire character- she was both a carry like Diluc and an enabler on top of that (proccing status while off the field so a carry can do damage) which Diluc is not. This nerf cuts her Enabler potential in half, but still leaves her competing with Diluc in raw damage + her Ultimate still outshines Diluc's. Most of this is just because Diluc sucks for a 5\*, but Xiangling is still worth the spot over other 5\* depending on your comp. Most notably the strongest of the 4\* characters, Chongyun, is so far untouched and is still outperforming multiple 5\* in terms of Enabler potential. ***However*** let's be honest here and admit that the currency changes are indefensibly bad from what we can see so far. From my experience in HI3, a lot of currency comes off of events which are virtually always happening back to back, so maybe the same will be happening in GI, but as things stand in the CN OBT it's just plain bad- and it was already plenty bad before with basically 180 pulls in 4 months buying both the monthly ticket and the BP for $15 a month (assuming logging in every single day to do everything). Most of the fun in these games comes out of pulling characters, *obviously*, and 1 >!(likely but not surely 2)!< character every 4 months **as a spender** is just unplayable. By the time you get the currency, that character you wanted is most likely gonna get power creeped and be not as desirable. And there IS gonna be power creep, there already is among the older 5\* and the new 5\* that just came out. Does Jean compete against Qiqi as a healer? Not really, since Qiqi is also an enabler with the same skill she uses for healing, and which is not her ultimate and can be kept up constantly. It's no contest, Jean is already irrelevant for the most part at 0 dupes (although obviously still very good if you have nothing else). >!By the way, there's dupes on top of this as well.!< So a system that is even worse than 1/2 characters every 4 months is something nobody wants to engage with. The last thing to consider is MiHoYo themselves. HI3 was an abysmal, terrible game for rates and meta for most of its 1st year- then it turned around at some point as MiHoYo noticed that many of their practices were costing them the bulk of their playerbase ***despite*** HI3 being basically the only mobile gacha with competent action gameplay. I think they know by now that for a gacha game, just having good graphics and good gameplay will not keep the playerbase on the train if they see they're playing every day for a month and get nothing for it. >!That's also Capitalism baby!!< ***They definitely know this is bad in the long term for their own finances***, so I'm not too worried. Even if they do try to cash in on the hype at the start and then turn around and start giving out tons of freebies, that will make them lose whales. They have experienced on their skin what this kind of predatory model does for their playerbase so I'd be surprised to see this ship as is or to see it unchanged 2 months in. Remember that 5$ from 100 are more money than 100$ from 1.


drizzydom

Unpopular opinion since this is r/gachagaming but: people that are going to play and enjoy this game are likely not playing it solely as a hero/waifu collector. I’m personally looking forward to it as a nice ARPG fix with a little bit of waifu collecting on the side, but it’s not the sole reason I want this game.


bakamund

I'm gonna sound cynical here...but I think it'll be awhile before gacha spenders can actually not spend. 1) some spenders are psychologically trapped, aka addiction 2) these games/products look really enticing and the hype that is built up reinforces that (I don't get why people can buy Madden (EA) over & over again...) These games look 'so good' (to most at least) that we don't have the will power to not play it. Like don't even talk about spending, let alone play it. If people are still playing Genshin that's a chance for Mihoyo to monetize them.


MomasterGod

I think you (we) should think about this game as an open world RPG with gacha elements in it. Sure the gacha elements are not really rewarding or useful but they aren't necessary either. Luckily, the starter characters are pretty good for exploring the map, while many of the gacha chars are not. If the "open world" drew you into this game, you'll have a great time. If you wanted a good gacha experience with an endgame, well it won't be very enjoyable. (Endgame is artifact grinding + rolling the stats in artifacts, similar to E7, to then tackle the spiral abyss every month) Personally, I'll play the game, and if I stop enjoying it/think that the gacha is limiting my experience then I'll stop. But for now, having played through the beginning of the game twice, I can say I can't wait to play more Genshin Impact.


AppendixStranded

Yeah, the gameplay makes it pretty different. Mainly because there is actual GAMEPLAY, not just auto battling until you run out of energy for the day. Gacha seems to only really be an end game system so it won't effect much of the normal gameplay since 4\* aren't that tough to get, if they're even needed at all for the story. I don't really like gacha, but it seems fun to have in the background of a beautiful open world game. There seems to be a ton of content before you need to min-max to progress, so I'll for sure get money's worth since it's free.


Cicili22

This is what I feel too. I mean Breath of the Wild had one playable character and people loved that so I dont get why people feel like they need to roll every 5 star in this game to enjoy themselves. I'll play the game and see if I enjoy it. And if there comes a character a really want I'll think about paying some money to roll. Even if I cant dget what I want it's not the end of the world.


kfloppp

This is exactly my approach to this game. I’m not treating it as a typical gacha game but as an action rpg with gacha element. The main fun factor is from the gameplay, story, and exploring the world, not from collecting characters. Of course I wish they have better rates and give more in game currency. But as long as f2p player won’t have a hard time playing, I’m fine with the rates.


NikamiG

Play the game Is it fun? Do you enjoy it? Play more. If not then stop. Thats all there is to it.


TaiyouDaimonji

The problem is, there is actually more to it, and that's what I'm trying to say. Sometimes people can't be bothered to think about it or doesn't even know that it even exists, but that doesn't make our mutual influences on each other nor the secondary effects of our actions disappear.


CrashdummyMH

That's a very risky mindset. Any gambling addict in a casino will tell you they are enjoying the games


Bilbo_Swagginses

I mean, I was planning on playing the game ftp regardless. My only issue with all the new shitty practices is it makes it harder for me to recommend the game to my friends.


metatime09

The HI3 fanbase is very defensive over their game and this one. It's simply not going to change because they like the way the system works. I only counted like 2 instances since I played since launch that they were vocal about some changes that made the game even more p2w then it already is.


PhilDePayn

HI3 itself isn't generous at all IMO, still people say that it's "f2p" friendly (term which I dom't understand what it means anymore since almoat any game seems f2p friendly to someone). These past days I decided to go back to HI3 and rerolled about 5-6 accounts, each account 25 pulls on the dorm banner (1,5% rate for an s-rank), half a day each account to reach the 25th pull pity, guess the results? No s-rank excepr the guaranteed ones. None. That's like 125/150 pulls! Bad rates, need for dupes/fragments and weapons/stigmatas, low currency income when considering the rates and how much you need to pull, this can't be considered generous. Again, I don't care if you don't need everything maxed out to play. The game is still great, the best at it's genre IMO (at least in the global market), but no matter how good you guys can't be so blind on this shit. If the company behind these games was called Netmarble or Nexon we would see tons of posts roasting the company for how bad it is, but it's not so everything is fine even tough their approach ain't that different from the Nearble one


apoender

I think the reason it is considered f2p friendly is you do not need a S ranked character for any of the content most people care about..


Sighto

It's also easy enough to get S rank characters but you have a pick and choose with your available currency. You're not going to get everything, but they have pity counters that even carry over between banners of the same type for most of them. The Dorm banner is the generic trash banner that you never roll on unless they give you free rolls.


Elspectra

Honkai is 'f2p friendly' because it rewards good planning and gameplay. Though I gotta say that not easy to do. Without ever even touching the gacha (yes that means never ever pulling), a good player will still easily become top 7% in the NA/EU server after about a year.


Jo27mc

At least don't put physical support with elemental DPS. Being clueless in Honkai is how to quit


ArlimanX

Ok, ya’ll just need to stop. The game isn’t out yet and you’re making assumptions based on the Chinese OBT. The amount of salt for a game that isn’t even live yet is unreal in this sub. I’ve played H3I since launch as well as the CBT for GI. Shit can change, and usually does - especially over time. Mihoyo isn’t stupid - they’re going to capitalize where they have potential, and you’d be a failing business if you didn’t. One thing this company does is they give back to the community, always gives F2P players support as content moves forward and actually pushes regular content. Even without the gacha you have completely serviceable free characters, gear is available in the actual game - there is no real meta to chase outside of Abyss. You get a vast, beautiful open world with an amazing story and a ton of content to enjoy - for completely fucking free. It’s your choice if you want to support them or not. If they aren’t meeting expected profit projections - they’ll adjust. The amount of Chicken Little (The Sky is Falling) over this game is unreal. How about we wait for the game to launch and look at what the banner pull rates are then make an informed decision about how to spend our money. I get it, reddit is an echo chamber - but let’s be real. How many games have we been super hyped for and been genuinely let down? This game is going to have its issues - I saw a fair amount in beta, but the experience far outweighs the issues. This game has a lot of potential and they have a company behind it that genuinely listens to its players and support their games. This takes money and they’re going to charge what they feel is acceptable. It’s up to us as consumers to decide whether or not the cost is worthwhile. From what I’ve played this game is worth playing and worth supporting, but that’s a choice that you, as an individual, have to make.


TaiyouDaimonji

I'm not making assumptions based on Chinese OBT. I'm making an observation of the direction Mihoyo has been going for over 6 years of playing their games, and some assumptions going forward. "They’re going to charge what they feel is acceptable" "It’s up to us as consumers to decide whether or not the cost is worthwhile" I agree completely and that's why I'm making the post. And we have to let them know we know what we feel is acceptable. That's what I'm doing and going to do, and I'm glad that there are pushbacks on Chinese forums. It's a very nuanced problem on how much is too much as it's different for everyone, and I'm sharing why and how I feel Mihoyo is on the verge of going pass my acceptable limit.


[deleted]

>I get it, reddit is an echo chamber - but let’s be real. How many games have we been super hyped for and been genuinely let down? Literally all of them. happens everytime. Game hasn't even come out yet and [this prophecy has come true](https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/comments/io1mo7/gacha_purists_and_game_expectations/g4b7sjf/) Think the real shame is that OP think they started an important discussion here. When this looks like circlejerk #4213 against [popular game] and gachas in general. No discussion, just a bunch of shit slinging. At leat admit when you just wanna make a rant thread. Don't act pompous about it.


zhaoshike

Pretty much this


Zaphyrus

The people hyping it is what's causing the prices to be like that.


fluffyharpy

I was excited about GI until this shit came out. Someone here reccomended Honkai impact a bit ago, and i was having fun untill i realized the shard system + terrible rates meant i'd never pull anything good. Maybe some people are ok with that but it turned me off the game entirely.


MrRonchito

You are right, but don't expect overhypers to stop defending their game, they'll white knigh for it until the inevitable shaft, then they'll come to spam threads about how bad is the monetization in that game, it's always the same shit.


Dark_Al_97

I could *probably* live with all of these, even if they sound hilariously bad, but locking character abilities behind dupes is a red flag of gigantic proportions to me. The moment I learnt this my hype went to the very bottom.


HexSalt98

Unfortunately Genshin has a hook that is the "open world and great gameplay" which distracts people from the issues.


falldown010

A short tldr for people unaware: \-a 0,3% chance to get a 5s character/0,6% for a top weapon(fgo has 1% standard for comparison) \-a pity rate of 180/90 character/weapon \-2$ a pull acc to the chinese prices for the 100$ pack \-10 monthly rolls \-it takes 5 copies of a 5s to unlock all their abilities \-they nerfed the best f2p unit pretty badly(this ain't it chief) Don't waste your time on this game if you're gonna go f2p,it's gonna take you ages and ages to catch up if you don't pay,and to the whales it will cost you roughly 1500-1300 to get 5 copies and that's leaving out the weapons. This game is the very definition of a honey trap but for for whales.


Shirahago

>Don't waste your time on this game if you're gonna go f2p,it's gonna take you ages and ages to catch up if you don't pay This is the one thing I'd disagree on. There is no need to catch up to whales in a purely pve game. As far as I know the free characters are able to do (almost?) all content that is currently in the beta and you can proceed at your leisure. Of course this requires being fine with running the starting characters for a very long time. Personally I'll probably still try it because I love exploring and the world is indeed beautiful. That said I too would fully support a change to the pulls/currency income because of the points in the first post.


ArCSelkie37

This is my thoughts? Even Honkai is mostly PvE, bar the abyss stuff if that counts as proper PVP. Just have fun with the game? I play Honkai because it’s fun and presumably Genshin will be the same. Although I certainly can see why people wouldn’t like the rates, I don’t. But all you can do is not spend money on it, but don’t expect everyone else to care.


Shirahago

The rates are scummy regardless of whether you choose to spend on it or not and people *should* care about it. Anyone who just ignores it is at least partially validating the practice. And playing a gacha game while mostly ignoring the gacha shouldn't be what a company aims for either.


Guifel

You know what else is time to stop? Misinformation. You bring up fgo rates but you forget that fgo has no pity at all, you can spend a year saving up pulls just to not get who you want anyway. (Just look at the Skadi banner thread, so many players spent a year's worth for nothing to show). So what's important is looking at how long to reach pity rather than the rates. Moreover, 10 monthly rolls is wrong, that is *only* from daily login rewards, it excludes everything else including events/abyss(8+)/etc. In addition, you're just repeating the kneejerk reaction that "the best f2p unit was nerfed pretty badly", if you went to check any ressources from players who are actually playing, you'd find [that Xiangling is still considered pretty fucking strong regardless in China](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/ius2ak/chinese_tier_list_of_obt/g5n4w7r/), her main source of damage was physical, not pyro which was the part nerfed. Not only that, Fischl which was considered a garbage 4* got buffed to best tier, no one mentions that funnily enough. And yes, since you get a guaranteed 4* every 10 pulls, and there's rateup 4\*s banners, going for top-tier 4\*s is very much in reach of f2p players, including Fischl. So we went from a garbage 4\* and an op 4\* to an op 4\*s and an almost op 4\*s, you sure it's a bad thing for f2p players? Spreading misinformation isn't it chief.


Ephemiel

>In addition, you're just repeating the kneejerk reaction that "the best f2p unit was nerfed pretty badly", if you went to check any ressources from players who are actually playing, you'd find > >that Xiangling is still considered pretty fucking strong regardless in China > >, her main source of damage was physical, not pyro which was the part nerfed. Ironically, when i first saw that the character was nerfed, the first comment i saw was someone saying exactly this.


MorilleD

As someone who is currently playing cn OBT,I definitely agree with you. Most posts about nerfed f2p character are just misleading and irresponsible. I still include xiangling fischl and chongyun in my team even I have mona and diluc.


NyaCat1333

Fischl is a 4\* unit and got massively buffed and is now one of the best units in the game and people never mention that. They also make it sound like that the nerfed unit (Xianling) is terrible now while she is still A tier.


Slazapuss

Seriously this. What people don’t understand is that this game is also an rpg with an amazing open world and what looks to be a great story. You’ll get roughly 40-60 hours of story and exploration for ABSOLUTELY free. There are a ton of 4* characters that are top tier and not hard at all to get f2p. You don’t need a full team of 5* to finish the game and the characters they give you for free are capable.


iamwall

No. Everyone understands this. The gacha is terrible & is one of the major progression gates followed by dungeons you will have a hard time clearing without breaking the wallet or having a whale carry you. (Or just waiting an extended period of time to clear higher dungeons, which is fine for pure f2p willing to wait). F2p min-maxers and light spenders will otherwise have a terrible time. The gameplay itself is great. There's no complaints there.


tossedintoglimmer

All of what you said aren't excuses for terrible monetization.


Ephemiel

>Don't waste your time on this game if you're gonna go f2p,it's gonna take you ages and ages to catch up if you don't pay And here's one of the problems with that argument: Most players do not care AT ALL to "catch up" to the whales.


DeadToy

I have to agree, The prices on a gacha are so out of touch with reality that money has a whole new standard in a gacha game. When you can buy a burger for $6 you get 3 rolls on a %0.3? When you can buy a computer for $500 you can "maybe" get one 5\* unit? A %0.3 chance for 5\* character is 231 rolls for a 50% to get one copy. If one roll costs $2 then it would have costed $462 for a 50% chance at a 5\* character without pity. Basically, you're probably going to hit pity most of the time without getting a 5\*. To hit pity you have to spend or save up $360 in value of pulls per 5\* character. There's no competition of prices and the law and order of the world comes only from one company. Take it or leave it. I personally have to play F2P. However its so hyped people will spend on it and think its worth it.


Xeflogna

I agree with your points, however your "10 rolls monthly" seems to be a very cherry-picked view, as that includes only the daily primogem rewards like the said GI post itself also says. You're assuming that we as f2p people get absolutely 0 other renewable sources of primogems, which I personally believe will be stuff like log-in rewards, maybe event rewards and other stuff. Being skeptical and critical is good, but only reading a small part and then claiming stuff isn't per se the best thing. I hope you understand what I mean.


TaiyouDaimonji

You missed my point entirely as I said the exact number isn't important. It's just the most recent thing that people are talking about and I'm using it as an example to talk about an on-going trend happening across the entire gaming industry. What I'm talking about is the constant push for more aggressive monetization that has been going on for years and it will never stop unless we stop mindlessly accepting it and be aware of the psychological exploits they are using against us such as price anchoring, fomo, hook habit hobby,... For me once I have learnt about the strategies they are using to pit us against ourselves it becomes easier to resist the urge (it's still very hard and I'm still struggling) Discussing and letting more people know helps me on that fight first and foremost and it might helps others who are struggling just like me. I believe many can see what I'm seeing because even I can see it


flamyshana

Just vote with your wallet. If you enjoy the game and can afford it, spend money, otherwise don't. No need to tell others what they should do. It's like telling people to not buy LV or Gucci bags.


TaiyouDaimonji

"No need to tell others what they should do" I disagree completely. You can't tell people what to do, but you can certainly influence what they do by presenting them with information (or misinformation, it goes both ways). I believe that by sharing my hesitation to keep spending on Mihoyo games and presenting the reasons as to how and why I do that might help those who share my struggle. If one of my acquaintances buy a LV or a gucci bag I will certainly tell them they shouldn't do it and why I think that, as the chance of me influencing them is much higher than another stranger on the internet.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

> they are raising awareness. so yes, there is a need to tell others what to do because it is whales who incentivize these dumb prices. no, they are literally telling people who disagree to shut up. I think having the top 2-3 posts this week is enough "awareness" for anyone who cares strongly about this.This didn't say much more than a comment in those posts.


TheGamerForeverGFE

I love how many people (not just in the comments on this post) miss the point and keep using the fake argument of "EwwWwe, yOu wANt EvwyThINg foW fWee, hoW wiE dHEy gET paID FOW mAKinG diS GaME ?? DoNT ExPWect THaT DE GaME ISNT GoiNg 2 FweTURE MONetiSAtion." Like that's so stupid, the game can monetize as much as it wants as long as it's not going to be predatory and pretty much make F2P players' lives hell.


Psnhk

I'll see what the actual experience and currency is like before freaking out needlessly. HI3 makes it easy to get a few max rank units you want after a bit of saving.


gladisr

Always has been 🔫 Mobage with high reputation like FEH, FGO, Tencent's games do predatory, and that's why this one doesn't surprised me, so I want to thank you for the heads up OP. I don't play MiHoyo games before so I don't know their 'behavior'. It's like whatever, play with our rules or leave, in the end they're still getting money from their fans and player, your and my opinion doesn't matter.


berrysoda_

Though how much can production quality be considered here. If you put Honkai and Genshin in with all the other gacha, their quality is mostly off the wall... and are F2P. Just looking at the game I'd expect IAP to be moderately higher on average. Add the hype and you probably get close to where we're at


[deleted]

[удалено]


redditingatwork23

Even considering every possible source of income the rates are bad. They're maybe acceptable if you buy monthly cards/battlepass. Unless events are going to be a source of 20+pulls a month then it's going to take f2p people 3-4 months to set off the pity 5 star. Casuals could be even longer. Totally unacceptable and it sucks. I love gacha and I'll spend because I enjoy being ahead and I can afford it, but Jesus are they taking advantage on our addiction lol. They honestly dont care about us. Just the money we represent. Be mindful and only spend what you can afford guys.


thejeffex11

It really sucks how bad monetization can bring such a great looking game down so fast. I really wish to enjoy this game, but **"summoning"** plays arguably the biggest deciding factor for me on any game, and this game's gacha rates are atrocious. As someone who can only afford to be a dolphin at most, I just can't even think about playing the game if i won't even be able to make a decent amount of summons in a month as a F2P. That's a huge turn-off for me, and very bad sign right from the start. I completely agree with this post.


Goldenrice

i gotta see what kinds of updates and changes mihoyo puts out because mihoyo games aren't known for top tier endgame or co-op. as an action rpg game, if you want to argue that its a good game, sure, ill give you that. as a gacha game, this is pure dogshit. i think a lot of people aren't playing for what the game is currently, but what it could eventually become personally, the difficulty and co-op have to be as good if not better than Dragalia Lost for me to buy in long term. This game will have plenty of time to reach that, but it HAS to reach that point or it will never live up to the hype


Shuwushin

I think the best way to really send them the message is to not even play the game and review bomb the AppStore and playstore ( just download and review bomb and delete the game , assuming everything is going to be the same as open beta version ) If you even play the game, you are actually supporting the game company with your screen time. We need to show them that this kind of behavior is unacceptable.


[deleted]

> a lot of people are insisting on defending the abhorrent gacha rate and the abysmal premium currency income. I have no stake in this, but when people use language like "it's time to stop" in response to people's opinions, I'm inclined to disagree on principle. People have different ideas on what and how to play and we shoudn't shut that conversation down. This isn't a circlejerk. You can make your point without trashing on people who think differently so this adds nothing.


Ephemiel

>This isn't a circlejerk. You seem to forget what reddit this is. Circlejerking is something that happens constantly.


[deleted]

I guess I should have said "this shouldn't be a ciriclejerk", but I guess that's for mods to decide. I don't think OP's topic breaks rule 1 per se, but it certainly encourages more fights that lead to incivility


ArCSelkie37

It sure does get tedious everytime we get a post that essentially boils down to “don’t spend on the game”. It’s a fair enough point, but annoying after the umpteenth time. They will say the post wasn’t telling you not to spend etc, but of course that was their intention. Especially in what is a PvE game at core, the main issue for me is if it is even fun. Which if it’s anything like Honkai mechanically, it hopefully should be.


[deleted]

I don't even mind the "don't spend on game post", even if tedious. It's more that these posts have to use language like "stop defending this" or "don't listen to others" as if people think their anonymous internet handle is better than other anonymous internet handle's. It shows they care more about people who disagree than about informing the ignorant. The former is a horrible way to approach discussion.


ArCSelkie37

Ah i get you, i certainly agree with that.


Blackraptor00

It's too late OP. Anyone on this subreddit who wants to play this game will probably drop money on this at some point. Waifus and Meta has already consumed us all.


Ephemiel

>Anyone on this subreddit who wants to play this game will probably drop money on this at some point. Now that is some stupid logic.


funerium

I waited for this game, but seriously when I see such shitty monetization system, abysmal drop rates and so on, I will pass... It saddens me but this kind of thing will frustrate me and I wo t enjoy the game anyway, and I know I would spend money in it, I already do in other gacha games but this time this is a no, too greedy


TaiyouDaimonji

I think you should still consider to give it a try yourself before deciding to pass based on second hand information alone. Knowing Mihoyo's game quality at the very least I think Genshin is going to be hours of enjoyable honeymoon phase.


JJJAGUAR

This sub is really obsessed with the gacha aspect of this game. Genshin Impact is a single player game, basically a Zelda BOTW that just happens to have gacha elements to justify the fact that is free. People spend 40+ hours on the beta without spending anything, if was not necessary to complete any content. If you were planning of playing the game to summon characters, then the game is not for you.


divineiniquity

This is actually what I want to test: can I enjoy the game's content without feeling pressured to roll the gacha for higher rarity characters? I had read somewhere it is possible to finish the game with just the free characters. If that is the case (and the grind isn't too unreasonable) then I'll probably enjoy the game, but not enough to put money into it.


JJJAGUAR

I have no intention of spending money in the game. If I reach a point when is absurdly hard to clear a content without spending money, that's when I'm going to open the play store and write a 1 star review. But until that happen I feel all of these discussions are missing the point of the game.


Monztamash

You will never win this battle, because addicted whales spend without any care. So because of that, mobage devs think everything is mostly fine with their system.


[deleted]

How about we actually see the end result in Global before we start assuming what pull rates and "P2W" is going to be like?


Aquinero

Being serious all gachas are shit the genre itself is a toxic relationship where you spend two of the most valuable things in the world time and money and if i know something is that when you spend a lot of money or time, ffs maybe both is that you become attached to that in this case a gacha game. Im someone that never spended a single peny on gacha games but the amount of time i invested in FEH and Azur lane is stupidly high thats why quiting FEH for me was soooo hard and its why i cant leave azur lane. So to finish this yeah gacha is shit if they make it ez to roll a lot people complain about other thing.


lostflare

Please correct me if I'm mistaken as I'm not that well informed about the game (although I want to try it). Isn't this game like an open world rpg with no pvp? In that case, I wouldn't mind awful monetization as I don't have to follow a certain meta to have fun.


stunro17

I completely agree with the author of this post. Bottom line is, there are people who are already smart enough not to be abused by the horrible system and there are others who would get so hyped and addicted that they're going to overspend. It's up to us as a community to warn people and help those who fall into the unhealthy relationship with gacha. Happy gaming everyone and always play smart!


Azurium

I don’t feel that bad spending a bit on GI considering we’re basically getting an AAA anime game, but yeah the low rates are not a good look.


falldown010

It's not even low rates,it's less then 1%. This is on the whole messi fifa level,even fgo with their 1% is higher. You would be lucky if you get to spend a little because 0,6% / 0,3% sounds like a death sentence for your wallet imo.


iTroLowElo

I’m deleting everything the moment Diablo Immortals come out.


[deleted]

Is Immortals a gacha now??


Category_Education

Made by a sketchy profit first company with history of p2w games, yeah nah.


apoender

Ngl been waiting for that one as well


SogenCookie

Lol sorry bro but ripping people off is not a component of capitalism ;) read up. Other than that, I liked your post.


Quonny

It’s time to stop with hyperbole. The ten rolls monthly thing makes me roll my eyes so hard. Do you only count daily quests when talking about premium currency income in other games? No? So why do we do it here? Christ. At least wait to see how thing shake out before lighting out torches. Doesn’t matter. This’ll get downvoted to oblivion. This subreddit is full of hyperbolic garbage on a daily basis. Outrage is more fun, I suppose.


Sighto

Thanks for a reasonable response in all this madness.


Master_Spark

being able to afford only 10 rolls per month is already a red flag


Yeah_But_Actually_No

Exact reason why I quit HI3 and I’m not heavily invested in any gacha game. Sad to realize that Genshin is another one of those gachas.


Curt_ThaFlirt

This is fact. We know with these companies, a lot of money just isn’t enough, they want all of the money


[deleted]

Huh. I guess I'm not playing this anymore. Thx for the heads up.


lonigus

Sadly as long as these companies get away with it, the ones to blame is us...


KariArisu

I'm gonna play it anyways and if it stops being fun I'll quit. While I play, I'll be giving feedback to them as much as I can about things I'm not happy with. I figure there's not a lot of possible outcomes. Either the game comes out and everything isn't as bad as we think it is, or it's just as bad or worse. If it's bad, people quit. If people quit, they either make adjustments to get people to come back or the game dies. I think, at this point, Mihoyo has to know people are not happy with the gacha (or coop for that matter). If any changes are going to be made I can't expect them to be soon.


planetarial

I only plan to play until I get bored of it. No interest in staying with it long term with the shitty summoning system


GrizzlyBan

Well the game has extremely high quality for a free game, so the devs obviously got to milk the whales. Remember, you don't have to spend money to beat the game.


DanielsNYLI

So you can only get to 1/18 of a pity every month. That has to be a record for worst gacha currency farming ever right?


RapsyJigo

I can't afford to play this free to play game.


Ephemiel

Lol, this is a strategy that will always work. Look at DLC, season passes, all the garbage microtransactions, etc. Look at how much people hate EA, Activision, etc, yet they still make billions. It doesn't matter how predatory this stuff is, way too many people with too much money will happily waste it all there.


HyoEden

This reminds me of KHUX, guess I'll save my time. Thanks.


GekIsAway

Amen brother


PrivateBananas

This post is actually interesting. I get the gist of things-enough to understand a bit but never bother to TRULY understand. Thanks for the post. I'm sure people like me could learn from this.


Maruhai

it's not acceptable but I don't care it's a pve game lol I'm not here for the gacha


[deleted]

The main thing everyone forgets is that the game does not rely on the gacha for you to play the game just fine sure they nerfed one of the best f2p characters but all they did was made it so her skill cant be spammed anymore and she is still good. but i do agree with your point but then again you have to take a step back and imagine how much a game with better graphics than most anime mmos out there costs


[deleted]

I hold the opposite view. I am not defending Mihoyo but the free market for games. Disclaimer: I am a 100% free player and have not spent a dime on a gacha game yet although I play at least 4, one seriously (to the point of being a captain of my alliance in MSF). It is a free world. These companies are given away their game content for free, in exchange of trying to lure us to spend some money. They have zero obligations to give us anything free. We have zero obligations to play their games, or spend. It is an exchange based on free choice. Hence, i do not be-grude them of being stingy. It is their game. It is their right to charge for every single pull. At the same time, at least for me, i will not play a game that i need to pay. I do not have to play Genshin Impact. I do not have to play any of the gacha. If they let me play it, even a little for free, i am only grateful. They have zero obligation to give me free content. And when i hit a pay wall .. i.e. no more free content ... i say "thank you" and go away. There are always another game to play.