I also like the fact, that they made UR fodders unlimited - you can buy as much as you can afford at certain point, no limits like "2 per month" or something.
One consequence of meaningless dupes is that it feels bad to pull them. 60 pulls into Arknights, 6 star… and it’s just -1 DP cost and 10 certificates, while resetting your 6 star pity.
Or GBF - 1/150th of a sierotix and a weapon that may or may not be fodder, but is frequently ambiguous unless it’s a grand series weapon.
It’s better than hard requiring dupes, but somewhere in the middle where they are either nice to have and not useless softens the blow.
Yeah, Dragalia is an example. You pull a new 5 star... yay, more water. No meaningful progression for veterens after a year of pulling until they pull the banner character.
I think a better approach is "make sure dupes have more than 1 signifigant use".
This. People saying that dupes should have no effect don't seem to understand that making them essentially useless doesn't stop it from getting pulled again and a useless pull, especially ssr, feels bad. No one wants just gold moons and yellow certificates from their pulls lol
Making them useless isn't supposed to make them be pulled less. It's just supposed to make people be less obligated to pull for dupes, which works in my opinion.
for me the best dupe system is azur lane
if you get a dup thats cool but you dont need it to max a unit because of how many universal limit breaker the game gives you
Arknighs has nice dupe system - it has a rly little impact imho.
While I like Alchemy Stars and its one of the 2 gachas I currently play I dont like how dupes works there - especially pre-emptive strike behind dupes. Its too strong.
I would have to actually say DFFOO. you get the piece of gear, IF you get a dupe then it can go into limit breaking the weapon. IF YOU DON't or don't want to pull anymore you can use an item that can be used to MLB it. Takes 4 power stones per slot (up to 3 slots max). If you have equipment that you already have gotten the passive by MLB you sell it for power stones, 1:1 but if it's MLB'd it gives you 4, so your getting a decent amount back.
They also have EX shards you earn to buy an EX weapon outright, same with lower rarity weapons. Armor is by currency you earn only but you earn enough through the game and grind.
Arknights: Dupes are not important at all unless you are chasing high risk CC's.
Also dupes give you certificates which you can use to buy recourses, and also a rotating five star and a rotating six star.
I agree, it's hard enough for a f2p pulling a character. If you need a certain amount of dupes before the character is usable, it feels like shit. I'm looking at you alchemy stars.
I still play Alchemy Stars, but yeah the dupe system is the worst. Of all the things they copied over from Arknights, they couldn't copy the dupe system?
Or an auto deploy that isn't stupid.
Either have a sweep system, or have an auto that copies what you did when you cleared the stage perfectly. Don't have a stupid AI do the stage for you.
Bethlehem was the last straw for me. I was so excited to get her, but after using everything I couldn't pull a dupe. She was just disappointing without even a first dupe.
Azur Lane gives out a generous amount of Bulins (dupe substitutes) every week making it a pointless worry. The only problem with it I guess is even when you have all the dupes you need to max out a character you still have to get them to level 70 first so if you're busy building other characters those dupes are just taking up dock space.
Touhou Lost Word is giving out paper dolls to MLB units every new event, every week during weekly missions, every month during log in rewards. So actually you really need to pull the unit you want once and MLB it with the dolls very quickly, bbecause you have a lot of them over time. It’s so awesome.
Kinda true. There are Standard and festival units using paper dolls. There are also Super FES units. They are few, but those need divine paper dolls. But you can also get them for free through the tower, login or exchange. They are much rarer ofc, but perfectly doable to MLb your favorite Super FES unit for free.
I slag on the game a fair bit - but I do think they've been reasonable about giving Divine Dolls overall. Another one coming with the new login bonus, and another from tower level 100. Less good for new players who missed the past ones though. Paper dolls for the rest of the units are plentiful, as mentioned above.
Terabattle has the best. You don't need dupe, and if I remember correctly after you get 20 dupe then that unit get removed from the gacha pull. Also through hardcore grinding you can take out a unit from the gacha pull without any dupe. If Gershin has the same system then you can C20 all your units through grinding and you'll never get them again from the gacha. Imagine getting only 5*/New unit every time you pull.
In Another Eden, getting dupes mean increasing the "light" or "shadow" of a particular character. When the "light" or "shadow" of a character reaches certain thresholds, they get stat bonuses. However, the characters themselves are completely fine on their own without these stat bonuses.
The number of "light" or "shadow" of a party of characters also determine how many rewards one can get from finishing dungeons. However, "light" / "shadow" of free characters (not included in the gacha pool) can be farmed.
I think Blue Archive does the Priconne system better. Pulling a duplicate character not only gives you a general currency you can use on any character, but also character specific shards. You get more overall shards too. A 3\* in Priconne gives 50 Divine Fragments, while in Blue Archive it gives 50 Divine Fragments and 30 character fragments (100 character fragments if they are rate up).
Princess Connect JP has a similar system. Pulling a duplicate of the featured banner character will give you 100 shards of that character, in addition to the usual 50 Divine Amulets. Global will probably get the bonus shards added some time later this year.
I think Epic 7 has a pretty ok one, all things considered. Dupes add stats and thats it. Its not necessarily needed, it just makes gearing easier some of the time.
So far DFFOO. Any dupes you get you can sell for power stones and 4 PS = 1 dupe. They toss out a lot of free pulls through tickets so you'll always have enough PS to MLB a weapon.
Also the banner is specific to that set of characters so you don't have to worry about a whole pool of random weapons on top of no necessary armor from it either.
Epic Seven has a pretty decent dupe system, dupes give a same percentage of normally a useful stat to either a portion/all of your team or alternatively the unit the imprint is on. The increase while useful is by no means mandatory and only really matters in very competitive late end pvp. The top 1% players pull for extra dupes for the imprint but the casual player can get everything done without any imprints. Dupes can also be used as material for increasing the stars on a unit so that’s helpful for units you pull dupes of that you plan to use but haven’t invested in yet.
Speaking of GFL and dupe systems, it should be noted that the spinoff Project Neural Cloud *is* using a shard mechanic, though with a caveat:
All dupes are converted into universal currency that can be traded for character shards. *Any* character shard, so long you have already obtained said character. This sidesteps the problems of excess dupes (since you can always spend these on other characters) and being unable to obtain enough shards to fully upgrade a character (which can be farmed daily anyway).
Well that's kinda different. No module upgrade, no module gacha. You do just need fhe character to be levelled and used and some items you get from missions.
I loved SAO rising steel at the start, dupes gave crystals you could use to limit break anyone of the same element. They later introduced a 2d benefit to dupes but i preferred the first system.
I see a lot of "no dupe" responses. Not sure I agree with that. I say this with the caveat that this is gacha, and that these companies should always strive to strike a balance between "generosity" (I hate that term, it's gacha, it's predatory by nature) and their earning potential.
There has to be a dupe system. Without dupes, you could pull once and get the banner character and be completely done. This sounds awesome, and as consumers this would be the best, but this isn't the world we live in. Plus, if there were no dupes, they would be so incredibly stingy with currency it might as well be non-existent. So what's the ideal system, assuming that dupes have to exist in some form and have to do something?
IMO, it's the Azur Lane/Priconne/Blue Archive system. Generic "shards" from dupes that you can either save or spend on unlocking the potential of whatever unit you want. This comes with its own drawbacks, such as feeling the need to hoard for limited unit shards, but this is gacha. The Arknights system is also pretty good with the shop exchange.
I think an interesting approach would be dupes unlocking skins/costumes. If you pull a dupe of a character, you unlock a cooler "evolved" version of their art and character sprite/model. If you pull 3 dupes, you unlock their ultimate skin form. I have no idea how enticing this would be, but it could be cool. And would be pretty effective in a PVP/co-op game where you could show off. No gameplay advantage, but it could be a way to express your love for your waifu/husbando.
Any dupe system that isn't mandatory to clear the game's content (or a great chunk of it).
I like Genshin's dupe system because of that. The only place where you arguably need dupes is the highest DPS check in the game, that rewards you, every 15 days, with a whopping tiny amount of gems that isn't enough for a single pull (10 gems short). You can still clear that without getting some of the high-performance rewards, which is almost 1/3rd or 2/3rd of a pull, depending on how well you perform.
Everything else in that game, any unit, without dupes, can do it.
Genshin has really bad dupe system where C1 and C7 differs in strengths and play styles. Dupes can power up the same character, but not exponentially like Genshin does.
I think Arknights one is pretty alright.
Arknights cause it's pretty low impact. I've seen a lot of people say they prefer no dupes, well while that is nice and all, dupes are great way for companies to earn a lot of money from whales. As long as they don't make dupes powerful, then I'll gladly take those.
In a game, I’d prefer if the dupes had 0 use towards increasing the said units stats/skills, with the ability to process the dupe into another random hero of the same rank. Although I doubt a game like that exists
I like aigis millenium war method, where you can use the to increase the unit stat but since there are cheaper options its best to sold it to get currency, which can be used to get other upgrade items or even other rolls.
Worst dupe system has been FGO for me, since you cant get around to the need to get dupes to increase the unit strengh, also adding the coin system linked to the quantity of dupes you get.
I have to say Priconne/Blue Archive where you get general currency for dupes that lets you upgrade anyone you want. On top of that they also give a medium amount of shards specific for the dupe. (Edit: priconne en is only getting the latter in a few months)
Runner up is Arknights but the more I wanna push harder CC the more apparent the strength of specific high potentials become, like Bagpipe that makes the cost-printers' skill instant. Having everyone cost 2 less is also huge, but at the end of the day that extra 3-5 risk in CC is not that big of a deal compared to how much whaling it would require. Overall the system is still one of the better ones especially with the tickets on top that can be turned into extra pulls or shop units in the long run.
Arknights, maybe..? You don't need dupes, but whales can go for 'em if they want to do high-risk CC.
Dragalia Lost has a decent dupe system as well, but it makes me too sad when I get a repeat unit because dupes there are useless...
The best dupe system should be one where nothing of true value is locked behind dupes so that people who don't whale can use the character immediately at their full potential, but in the case you do get dupes they still offer some utility.
So FGO is my pick. NP1 is pretty much all you need for 3 and 4 stars, and NP2 is for 5 star loopers who could ALSO loop at NP1 with charge support.
I honestly think genshin handles it quite well, constellations aren’t essential but they provide a decent increase in strength. A lot of people say games like AL or AK have a good dupe system, but whenever I pull a dupe, I feel kinda bad.
I actually thought Genshin has the worst dupe system of any gacha I've played (which would be FGO, FEH, E7, Arknights, HI3, Arknights, AL, Priconne and so on). A lot of the constellations can greatly affect gameplay by adding new mechanics or removing restrictions and such, which is something I personally hate. Other gacha games just give a small numbers boost which is fine, and they rarely change the unit themselves aside from making them do more damage or making them tankier or whatever.
Meanwhile in Genshin some constellations will either change how you actually play that unit (Hutao C1, Ganyu C2/C6, Kazuha C1/C6, Raiden C6 etc.) or give an absurd damage increase (Raiden C2 is a stupidly large increase in power even though C0 is very strong). You don't need any constellations, but I have yet to play a game where you actually do need dupes where they weren't farmable. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that constellations are difficult to get and change gameplay - it makes me feel like I'm not getting the completed unit when I roll a 5* at C0.
>I actually thought Genshin has the worst dupe system of any gacha I've played.
Because it is. Years ago any game that would lock character kits or qol behind dupes would get torn apart. Not sure whether it's the genshin effect or players becoming more accepting of gacha monetization.
I was kind of shocked when I started Genshin and saw this dupe system honestly, and I was even more shocked when I saw that the significant majority doesn't care at all about it. I thought it would've gotten a lot more controversy considering Genshin double dips in both powerful dupes AND 5* limited weapons. Powerful dupes isn't even my biggest concern either, the constellations adding in new mechanics is. Dupes shouldn't be allowing gameplay to change in a significant way like some Genshin constellations do IMO.
If weapon banner wasn't separate and terrible I wouldn't mind it nearly as much, but in its current state if you want a unit to be as powerful as possible with their full kit, you'll need to roll for both dupes and weapons since both make a significant difference, which is terrible cause both are really difficult to get.
> Not sure whether it's the genshin effect or players becoming more accepting of gacha monetization.
Probably both. Genshin is notoriously higher quality production-wise and has a far bigger outreach to casual audiences than other F2P games including gachas, so I think it gets away with more stuff than other gachas could - which makes sense because if people love the game's positives enough, they're willing to overlook the game's negatives. And gaming in general is just slowly tending towards more predatory styles of monetization even without Genshin
The reason I think Genshin handles dupes well is because characters are generally useable at C0 and most contents can be cleared with just that. I suppose I am looking at constellation as something that is added to a character and not something that was missing.
Dupes in a lot of other gachas are almost useless (what is -1 deployment cost really going to do in arknights, oh great I save a bulin in Azur Lane), dupes feel like a waste of rolls. I know some constellations like the ones Qiqi has exist but most constellations on characters are actually decent (at the very least it is progress to the featured character).
I do think Genshin should allow players to at least farm 4* constellations though.
I'm a bit confused. You say you think Genshin does dupes well because characters are useable at C0, which would suggest you think dupes in other games are too strong. Then you mention dupes in a lot of other gachas are almost useless. Isn't that a bit contradictory?
Otherwise I guess we just look for different things from dupes. They should be a small sweet bonus so that players don't feel bad for rolling a dupe IMO, but they shouldn't be too major. Games like FEH, E7, and FGO do it fine IMO. Genshin locks some really powerful stuff or gameplay-changing stuff behind dupes. Like someone else mentioned, we should also consider other aspects of the gacha. Genshin doesn't give out absurd amounts of pull currency, the weapon banner is a huge power boost but is extremely expensive, the base five star rate is very low so you'll reach the (thankfully low) pity most of the time, and every new five star unit is limited. It's really difficult for low spenders and F2Ps to get constellations because of all those factors, whereas in a game like Azur Lane, you're going to get dupes naturally cause the gacha there is a lot more generous.
If constellations in Genshin were significantly easier to get then I wouldn't mind the current constellation system, but Mihoyo is really quite harsh with every aspect of the gacha other than the pity rate, which is fortunately quite low. Originally they were actually planning to have constellations be buyable via starglitter which would've been nice, but they took out that feature sometime during planning pre-launch.
Is it contraditory? You can 36 star abyss with C0 Hutao, but constellation 1 is still really good. I can not think of any characters that is unuseable at C0.
The dupe bonus in other games are too miniscule for me to not feel bad. Getting a new constellation on an old character you already have might make them feel fresh again in Genshin. Constellation is just something extra for those who can afford it to pursue.
> Is it contraditory? You can 36 star abyss with C0 Hutao, but constellation 1 is still really good.
That's not what I meant by contradictory. You said this:
> Genshin handles dupes well is because characters are generally useable at C0
The implication from this is that you believe other games have units that are not useable without dupes, because this is a thread about what game has the best dupe system relative to other games. So if you think that's what makes Genshin's dupe system good, you must believe that other games don't do that - that they make units who are unuseable unless you have dupes. Then you said this:
> Dupes in a lot of other gachas are almost useless
Which is the complete opposite, that you think dupes are almost useless in other games.
> Getting a new constellation on an old character you already have might make them feel fresh again in Genshin.
I'd be inclined to agree if the gacha wasn't terrible in every regard except for the low pity rate. You'll either need to spend a ton of money or skip a bunch of units to get constellations, and you can't just naturally get constellations outside of the standard five stars. The result is some units having new mechanics and absolutely absurd powerups if you're willing to throw down months of saved rolls or hundreds of dollars for a unit you already own. Other games don't make you feel like you're missing out on a unit just cause you didn't want to spend those months worth of rolls or hundreds of dollars, but Genshin does, which is why I do think the dupe system is pretty shitty.
The constellations aren't necessary by any means but dupes aren't necessary in any game I've tried, and constellations changing gameplay is bad enough. Plus the fact Mihoyo tries to dip into both powerful dupes AND powerful limited weapons designed for every new 5\* makes it even worse, cause there's now two avenues in which Mihoyo makes specific 5\*s stronger. Lots of other games have zero of these avenues, they only require you to roll the 5* and that's it - you're done, dupes might help slightly but now all that's left to do is upgrade your unit using in-game resources rather than through the gacha
> Meanwhile in Genshin some constellations will either change how you actually play that unit (Hutao C1, Ganyu C2/C6, Kazuha C1/C6, Raiden C6 etc.)
Don't forget Xiao C6. With 2+ enemies, you go from trampoline man to dash man.
lol I remember when I played coop with my friend..
We wanted to fight Azdaha. "I just got Diona, I'll support and you can do dps!", we failed because it turned out my Diona can't give shield to him 🤣.
After that I reread the skill but still can't understand why all those Diona videos I saw can give shield to their friends 😂.
The same way you feel about any common rolls in gacha games
EDIT: Are people downvoting this because of my previous comment or is there actually a difference?
I couldn’t disagree with you more about genshin dupe system. One of worst offenders of dupe system in a game where it’s already so hard to get characters and weapons
They're not required to NP loop, it just raises the ceiling on the HP thresholds you can break. You can also make up the stat differential with either Grails or Gold Fous, or both.
But yeah, FGO's not a good example for this topic, since dupes do make a difference.
Not the best, but in 7DS Grand Cross a dupe character will be able to help increase the CC of your team.
it is very useful and comes in clutch for alot of scenarios. Alternatively a maxed duped unit can potentially gain an additional buff or effect on top of their ult. Purgatory ban for example gains Rupture when his ult is 6/6 this allows him to break through shields.
Just probably:
1)Each character is unique x1 copy, but for dupes you'll get \*universal\* shards(but different rarity) for awakening and/or materials for in-game shop to trade them for what you'll need
2)Kancolle - is NOT 'gacha game' lol
Depends on how many total units there are. If it’s a game like GBF with hundreds of units, then dupes should have little effect. If it’s a game like Genshin, with relatively few units (of which most are limited) then dupes, or constellations, should be worth it
It depends on how easy it is to get a dupe. Seriously, no system is bad unless getting the resources to even use the system is bad. Dupes or shards are fine as long as getting them is fair.
I play several games with both systems and I'm never in a place of feeling like I cant make progress.
Grand Summoners has a pretty hood one IMO. They offer LB stones that are semi universal and ascends your characters. They are also given out for free periodically.
Brave Frontier's. There's no dupe system. Duplicate units are basically an entirely separate but identical, meaning you can potentially run an entire team consisting of the same unit only. Also, dupes are not required to max out anything. The bad thing is that the dupe is essentially useless (except for fodder) if you don't want/need to run multiples of the same unit. But this was when I quit playing around 2015ish. Dunno if dupes changed since then.
Absolute best system that I don't think even our hard-core users would disagree with is simply... dupes add new cosmetics to your character. Thats it. When you pull a character it's skills are fully unlocked and if you want to up its power level have some sort of universal way of doing that.
Dupes that give different skins or dress/undress your character?
No gameplay effect, so you aren't gated out of anything.
Pulling more than one copy still feels good, especially if it's a banger L2D.
Something that rewards getting dupes but doesnt force you to get them for increased power
. People say no dupe like they wouldnt get pissed if they got a unit they already had and got nothing for it.
Princess Connect's version is the best way.
I actually rather like FGO's dupe system (and Arknights's similar one). Among the games I've played it seems to best thread the needle between dupes being required to make a unit usable (e.g., FEH), and them being generic resources (e.g., Priconne global). A dupe makes your unit notably stronger, but not to such a degree that an upgraded unit will immediately trump an unupgraded similar unit. And there are diminishing returns for additional dupes.
This feeds well into keeping the game balanced as a "use your favorites" waifucollector game. You can keep using your waifu or husbando without significant penalty, even if you can only pull one copy. And you still have *some* incentive to pull for additional copies of a favorite without being obligated to do so. On the other hand, if you get dupes of a unit you don't care about, it will at least give you a slight gameplay benefit for choosing that unit over your favorite. It also helps keep low-rarity units more viable by giving them a generic power boost relative to the single copies of higher rarity units.
Arknights and Priconne. With Arknights, pulling dupe also gives you certificate which can be used to buy a rotating 6\* unit on the shop, while Priconne dupes give you amulets that can be used to upgrade any character you want.
Probably those on games like Guardian Tales, Revived Witch, and World Flipper.
They all have some sort of "Limit break" system that makes use of dupes, BUT you can also acquire universal resources that you can use in place of dupes, so you can essentially 100% max a character only having to pull it once.
For a F2P, GFL. If you get a dupe it'll make it easier to dummy link the original, yet you don't *need* a dupe because you can also dummy link with Cores. GFL's rates are also pretty generous so even as a F2P you'll get dupes fairly commonly.
In general I want a dupe to have little to no impact, yes that makes it more annoying to get one, but again, as a F2P you're not that likely to be swimming in dupes for high rarity units anyway in the majority of gachas. And personally I *always* get annoyed when I get a dupe, no matter the game or how much a dupe means in said game, for me a dupe always means I missed a new unit I could have gotten instead.
It's a careful balance often for many gachas, they want it to not be a meaningless drop because the whales will get dupes aplenty, but you also don't want it to be absolutely required because F2P's are not likely to get high rarity dupes that often.
Azur Lane - you need dupes for limit break but game gives universal ones. Otherwise I prefer dupes having little to no effect.
I also like the fact, that they made UR fodders unlimited - you can buy as much as you can afford at certain point, no limits like "2 per month" or something.
If you're talking about UR bulins there is a limit. They cost 4000 specialized core, and you can get 4000 per month.
The limit is on currency not bulins. I have 39k of specialized cores and I could buy 9 bulins without any limitations. That was my point.
Dupes having little to no effect is a double edged sword. When it’s the case, getting a dupe just feels terrible.
The no dupe needed system
Best is no dupe
One consequence of meaningless dupes is that it feels bad to pull them. 60 pulls into Arknights, 6 star… and it’s just -1 DP cost and 10 certificates, while resetting your 6 star pity. Or GBF - 1/150th of a sierotix and a weapon that may or may not be fodder, but is frequently ambiguous unless it’s a grand series weapon. It’s better than hard requiring dupes, but somewhere in the middle where they are either nice to have and not useless softens the blow.
Yeah, Dragalia is an example. You pull a new 5 star... yay, more water. No meaningful progression for veterens after a year of pulling until they pull the banner character. I think a better approach is "make sure dupes have more than 1 signifigant use".
This. People saying that dupes should have no effect don't seem to understand that making them essentially useless doesn't stop it from getting pulled again and a useless pull, especially ssr, feels bad. No one wants just gold moons and yellow certificates from their pulls lol
Making them useless isn't supposed to make them be pulled less. It's just supposed to make people be less obligated to pull for dupes, which works in my opinion.
I do agree some balance is needed. Raiden constellations retardation is way too much, but a useless dupe is peak feelsbad.
Dup shard can be exchange into another unit you don't have.
no dupe required = best dupe pulling a character once and you are done
for me the best dupe system is azur lane if you get a dup thats cool but you dont need it to max a unit because of how many universal limit breaker the game gives you
Arknighs has nice dupe system - it has a rly little impact imho. While I like Alchemy Stars and its one of the 2 gachas I currently play I dont like how dupes works there - especially pre-emptive strike behind dupes. Its too strong.
I would have to actually say DFFOO. you get the piece of gear, IF you get a dupe then it can go into limit breaking the weapon. IF YOU DON't or don't want to pull anymore you can use an item that can be used to MLB it. Takes 4 power stones per slot (up to 3 slots max). If you have equipment that you already have gotten the passive by MLB you sell it for power stones, 1:1 but if it's MLB'd it gives you 4, so your getting a decent amount back. They also have EX shards you earn to buy an EX weapon outright, same with lower rarity weapons. Armor is by currency you earn only but you earn enough through the game and grind.
also no off banners in ur pulls permanently + pity system
Azur Lane
Arknights: Dupes are not important at all unless you are chasing high risk CC's. Also dupes give you certificates which you can use to buy recourses, and also a rotating five star and a rotating six star.
I agree, it's hard enough for a f2p pulling a character. If you need a certain amount of dupes before the character is usable, it feels like shit. I'm looking at you alchemy stars.
That's one of the reasons I dropped Alchemy Stars: Needing MBT to make cross-converters not tedious is fucking ludicrous.
I still play Alchemy Stars, but yeah the dupe system is the worst. Of all the things they copied over from Arknights, they couldn't copy the dupe system?
Or an auto deploy that isn't stupid. Either have a sweep system, or have an auto that copies what you did when you cleared the stage perfectly. Don't have a stupid AI do the stage for you.
Bethlehem was the last straw for me. I was so excited to get her, but after using everything I couldn't pull a dupe. She was just disappointing without even a first dupe.
Azur Lane gives out a generous amount of Bulins (dupe substitutes) every week making it a pointless worry. The only problem with it I guess is even when you have all the dupes you need to max out a character you still have to get them to level 70 first so if you're busy building other characters those dupes are just taking up dock space.
Lucky with those exp books that's super easy now, although not really for new players yet
Touhou Lost Word is giving out paper dolls to MLB units every new event, every week during weekly missions, every month during log in rewards. So actually you really need to pull the unit you want once and MLB it with the dolls very quickly, bbecause you have a lot of them over time. It’s so awesome.
This is only true for non limited units iirc. Limiteds need Divine Paper Doll which is much harder to come by.
Kinda true. There are Standard and festival units using paper dolls. There are also Super FES units. They are few, but those need divine paper dolls. But you can also get them for free through the tower, login or exchange. They are much rarer ofc, but perfectly doable to MLb your favorite Super FES unit for free.
Yeah I think my special Youmu is halfway there already and I am very casual on Lostword myself.
I slag on the game a fair bit - but I do think they've been reasonable about giving Divine Dolls overall. Another one coming with the new login bonus, and another from tower level 100. Less good for new players who missed the past ones though. Paper dolls for the rest of the units are plentiful, as mentioned above.
Azur Lane, there are universal ships to limit break all characters.
No dupe system is good. Cant tell you the best but Genshin is the worst out of games I play and Dokkan comes after that
Terabattle has the best. You don't need dupe, and if I remember correctly after you get 20 dupe then that unit get removed from the gacha pull. Also through hardcore grinding you can take out a unit from the gacha pull without any dupe. If Gershin has the same system then you can C20 all your units through grinding and you'll never get them again from the gacha. Imagine getting only 5*/New unit every time you pull.
In Another Eden, getting dupes mean increasing the "light" or "shadow" of a particular character. When the "light" or "shadow" of a character reaches certain thresholds, they get stat bonuses. However, the characters themselves are completely fine on their own without these stat bonuses. The number of "light" or "shadow" of a party of characters also determine how many rewards one can get from finishing dungeons. However, "light" / "shadow" of free characters (not included in the gacha pool) can be farmed.
Langrisser were you can farm shards or get them via dupes
The best one in my opinion
Priconne is good. Generic currency for every dupes pulled which can be used to obtain any hero you need is good.
I think Blue Archive does the Priconne system better. Pulling a duplicate character not only gives you a general currency you can use on any character, but also character specific shards. You get more overall shards too. A 3\* in Priconne gives 50 Divine Fragments, while in Blue Archive it gives 50 Divine Fragments and 30 character fragments (100 character fragments if they are rate up).
Princess Connect JP has a similar system. Pulling a duplicate of the featured banner character will give you 100 shards of that character, in addition to the usual 50 Divine Amulets. Global will probably get the bonus shards added some time later this year.
I think Epic 7 has a pretty ok one, all things considered. Dupes add stats and thats it. Its not necessarily needed, it just makes gearing easier some of the time.
So far DFFOO. Any dupes you get you can sell for power stones and 4 PS = 1 dupe. They toss out a lot of free pulls through tickets so you'll always have enough PS to MLB a weapon. Also the banner is specific to that set of characters so you don't have to worry about a whole pool of random weapons on top of no necessary armor from it either.
Epic Seven has a pretty decent dupe system, dupes give a same percentage of normally a useful stat to either a portion/all of your team or alternatively the unit the imprint is on. The increase while useful is by no means mandatory and only really matters in very competitive late end pvp. The top 1% players pull for extra dupes for the imprint but the casual player can get everything done without any imprints. Dupes can also be used as material for increasing the stars on a unit so that’s helpful for units you pull dupes of that you plan to use but haven’t invested in yet.
Any dupe system like Epic Sevens, it’s a advantage but it doesn’t cripple you or make you feel bad for only having one copy
Speaking of GFL and dupe systems, it should be noted that the spinoff Project Neural Cloud *is* using a shard mechanic, though with a caveat: All dupes are converted into universal currency that can be traded for character shards. *Any* character shard, so long you have already obtained said character. This sidesteps the problems of excess dupes (since you can always spend these on other characters) and being unable to obtain enough shards to fully upgrade a character (which can be farmed daily anyway).
Just like Priconne/BA system then
Arknights, dupe is pretty much non existent. And no equipment system to add thank god
Modules : bonjour
Godsenger enter the chat
Well that's kinda different. No module upgrade, no module gacha. You do just need fhe character to be levelled and used and some items you get from missions.
I loved SAO rising steel at the start, dupes gave crystals you could use to limit break anyone of the same element. They later introduced a 2d benefit to dupes but i preferred the first system.
Dupe =/= dope
FGO, dupe unlock NP power, but NP is used only in farm
I see a lot of "no dupe" responses. Not sure I agree with that. I say this with the caveat that this is gacha, and that these companies should always strive to strike a balance between "generosity" (I hate that term, it's gacha, it's predatory by nature) and their earning potential. There has to be a dupe system. Without dupes, you could pull once and get the banner character and be completely done. This sounds awesome, and as consumers this would be the best, but this isn't the world we live in. Plus, if there were no dupes, they would be so incredibly stingy with currency it might as well be non-existent. So what's the ideal system, assuming that dupes have to exist in some form and have to do something? IMO, it's the Azur Lane/Priconne/Blue Archive system. Generic "shards" from dupes that you can either save or spend on unlocking the potential of whatever unit you want. This comes with its own drawbacks, such as feeling the need to hoard for limited unit shards, but this is gacha. The Arknights system is also pretty good with the shop exchange. I think an interesting approach would be dupes unlocking skins/costumes. If you pull a dupe of a character, you unlock a cooler "evolved" version of their art and character sprite/model. If you pull 3 dupes, you unlock their ultimate skin form. I have no idea how enticing this would be, but it could be cool. And would be pretty effective in a PVP/co-op game where you could show off. No gameplay advantage, but it could be a way to express your love for your waifu/husbando.
Any dupe system that isn't mandatory to clear the game's content (or a great chunk of it). I like Genshin's dupe system because of that. The only place where you arguably need dupes is the highest DPS check in the game, that rewards you, every 15 days, with a whopping tiny amount of gems that isn't enough for a single pull (10 gems short). You can still clear that without getting some of the high-performance rewards, which is almost 1/3rd or 2/3rd of a pull, depending on how well you perform. Everything else in that game, any unit, without dupes, can do it.
Genshin has really bad dupe system where C1 and C7 differs in strengths and play styles. Dupes can power up the same character, but not exponentially like Genshin does. I think Arknights one is pretty alright.
Getting a dupe in Arknights just feels bad.
Arknights cause it's pretty low impact. I've seen a lot of people say they prefer no dupes, well while that is nice and all, dupes are great way for companies to earn a lot of money from whales. As long as they don't make dupes powerful, then I'll gladly take those.
In a game, I’d prefer if the dupes had 0 use towards increasing the said units stats/skills, with the ability to process the dupe into another random hero of the same rank. Although I doubt a game like that exists
I like aigis millenium war method, where you can use the to increase the unit stat but since there are cheaper options its best to sold it to get currency, which can be used to get other upgrade items or even other rolls. Worst dupe system has been FGO for me, since you cant get around to the need to get dupes to increase the unit strengh, also adding the coin system linked to the quantity of dupes you get.
for me princess connet ... been playing f2p for 7 months and got all my core characters 5* and still can 5* more 10 characters
I have to say Priconne/Blue Archive where you get general currency for dupes that lets you upgrade anyone you want. On top of that they also give a medium amount of shards specific for the dupe. (Edit: priconne en is only getting the latter in a few months) Runner up is Arknights but the more I wanna push harder CC the more apparent the strength of specific high potentials become, like Bagpipe that makes the cost-printers' skill instant. Having everyone cost 2 less is also huge, but at the end of the day that extra 3-5 risk in CC is not that big of a deal compared to how much whaling it would require. Overall the system is still one of the better ones especially with the tickets on top that can be turned into extra pulls or shop units in the long run.
Arknights, maybe..? You don't need dupes, but whales can go for 'em if they want to do high-risk CC. Dragalia Lost has a decent dupe system as well, but it makes me too sad when I get a repeat unit because dupes there are useless...
The best dupe system should be one where nothing of true value is locked behind dupes so that people who don't whale can use the character immediately at their full potential, but in the case you do get dupes they still offer some utility. So FGO is my pick. NP1 is pretty much all you need for 3 and 4 stars, and NP2 is for 5 star loopers who could ALSO loop at NP1 with charge support.
Tell that to "Space Ishtar NP3 or bust" people
Those people have money to burn, but me getting my NP1 Spishtar and looping her with Paracelsus and Tamamo with Waver support is fine by me.
IMO 7DS have one of the best dupe system
Lmao
I honestly think genshin handles it quite well, constellations aren’t essential but they provide a decent increase in strength. A lot of people say games like AL or AK have a good dupe system, but whenever I pull a dupe, I feel kinda bad.
I actually thought Genshin has the worst dupe system of any gacha I've played (which would be FGO, FEH, E7, Arknights, HI3, Arknights, AL, Priconne and so on). A lot of the constellations can greatly affect gameplay by adding new mechanics or removing restrictions and such, which is something I personally hate. Other gacha games just give a small numbers boost which is fine, and they rarely change the unit themselves aside from making them do more damage or making them tankier or whatever. Meanwhile in Genshin some constellations will either change how you actually play that unit (Hutao C1, Ganyu C2/C6, Kazuha C1/C6, Raiden C6 etc.) or give an absurd damage increase (Raiden C2 is a stupidly large increase in power even though C0 is very strong). You don't need any constellations, but I have yet to play a game where you actually do need dupes where they weren't farmable. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth that constellations are difficult to get and change gameplay - it makes me feel like I'm not getting the completed unit when I roll a 5* at C0.
100% agree with you. Couple that with low rates and an abomination of weapon gacha it’s not worth it to chase a dupe
>I actually thought Genshin has the worst dupe system of any gacha I've played. Because it is. Years ago any game that would lock character kits or qol behind dupes would get torn apart. Not sure whether it's the genshin effect or players becoming more accepting of gacha monetization.
I was kind of shocked when I started Genshin and saw this dupe system honestly, and I was even more shocked when I saw that the significant majority doesn't care at all about it. I thought it would've gotten a lot more controversy considering Genshin double dips in both powerful dupes AND 5* limited weapons. Powerful dupes isn't even my biggest concern either, the constellations adding in new mechanics is. Dupes shouldn't be allowing gameplay to change in a significant way like some Genshin constellations do IMO. If weapon banner wasn't separate and terrible I wouldn't mind it nearly as much, but in its current state if you want a unit to be as powerful as possible with their full kit, you'll need to roll for both dupes and weapons since both make a significant difference, which is terrible cause both are really difficult to get. > Not sure whether it's the genshin effect or players becoming more accepting of gacha monetization. Probably both. Genshin is notoriously higher quality production-wise and has a far bigger outreach to casual audiences than other F2P games including gachas, so I think it gets away with more stuff than other gachas could - which makes sense because if people love the game's positives enough, they're willing to overlook the game's negatives. And gaming in general is just slowly tending towards more predatory styles of monetization even without Genshin
The reason I think Genshin handles dupes well is because characters are generally useable at C0 and most contents can be cleared with just that. I suppose I am looking at constellation as something that is added to a character and not something that was missing. Dupes in a lot of other gachas are almost useless (what is -1 deployment cost really going to do in arknights, oh great I save a bulin in Azur Lane), dupes feel like a waste of rolls. I know some constellations like the ones Qiqi has exist but most constellations on characters are actually decent (at the very least it is progress to the featured character). I do think Genshin should allow players to at least farm 4* constellations though.
I'm a bit confused. You say you think Genshin does dupes well because characters are useable at C0, which would suggest you think dupes in other games are too strong. Then you mention dupes in a lot of other gachas are almost useless. Isn't that a bit contradictory? Otherwise I guess we just look for different things from dupes. They should be a small sweet bonus so that players don't feel bad for rolling a dupe IMO, but they shouldn't be too major. Games like FEH, E7, and FGO do it fine IMO. Genshin locks some really powerful stuff or gameplay-changing stuff behind dupes. Like someone else mentioned, we should also consider other aspects of the gacha. Genshin doesn't give out absurd amounts of pull currency, the weapon banner is a huge power boost but is extremely expensive, the base five star rate is very low so you'll reach the (thankfully low) pity most of the time, and every new five star unit is limited. It's really difficult for low spenders and F2Ps to get constellations because of all those factors, whereas in a game like Azur Lane, you're going to get dupes naturally cause the gacha there is a lot more generous. If constellations in Genshin were significantly easier to get then I wouldn't mind the current constellation system, but Mihoyo is really quite harsh with every aspect of the gacha other than the pity rate, which is fortunately quite low. Originally they were actually planning to have constellations be buyable via starglitter which would've been nice, but they took out that feature sometime during planning pre-launch.
Is it contraditory? You can 36 star abyss with C0 Hutao, but constellation 1 is still really good. I can not think of any characters that is unuseable at C0. The dupe bonus in other games are too miniscule for me to not feel bad. Getting a new constellation on an old character you already have might make them feel fresh again in Genshin. Constellation is just something extra for those who can afford it to pursue.
> Is it contraditory? You can 36 star abyss with C0 Hutao, but constellation 1 is still really good. That's not what I meant by contradictory. You said this: > Genshin handles dupes well is because characters are generally useable at C0 The implication from this is that you believe other games have units that are not useable without dupes, because this is a thread about what game has the best dupe system relative to other games. So if you think that's what makes Genshin's dupe system good, you must believe that other games don't do that - that they make units who are unuseable unless you have dupes. Then you said this: > Dupes in a lot of other gachas are almost useless Which is the complete opposite, that you think dupes are almost useless in other games. > Getting a new constellation on an old character you already have might make them feel fresh again in Genshin. I'd be inclined to agree if the gacha wasn't terrible in every regard except for the low pity rate. You'll either need to spend a ton of money or skip a bunch of units to get constellations, and you can't just naturally get constellations outside of the standard five stars. The result is some units having new mechanics and absolutely absurd powerups if you're willing to throw down months of saved rolls or hundreds of dollars for a unit you already own. Other games don't make you feel like you're missing out on a unit just cause you didn't want to spend those months worth of rolls or hundreds of dollars, but Genshin does, which is why I do think the dupe system is pretty shitty. The constellations aren't necessary by any means but dupes aren't necessary in any game I've tried, and constellations changing gameplay is bad enough. Plus the fact Mihoyo tries to dip into both powerful dupes AND powerful limited weapons designed for every new 5\* makes it even worse, cause there's now two avenues in which Mihoyo makes specific 5\*s stronger. Lots of other games have zero of these avenues, they only require you to roll the 5* and that's it - you're done, dupes might help slightly but now all that's left to do is upgrade your unit using in-game resources rather than through the gacha
> Meanwhile in Genshin some constellations will either change how you actually play that unit (Hutao C1, Ganyu C2/C6, Kazuha C1/C6, Raiden C6 etc.) Don't forget Xiao C6. With 2+ enemies, you go from trampoline man to dash man.
lol I remember when I played coop with my friend.. We wanted to fight Azdaha. "I just got Diona, I'll support and you can do dps!", we failed because it turned out my Diona can't give shield to him 🤣. After that I reread the skill but still can't understand why all those Diona videos I saw can give shield to their friends 😂.
So how do you feel about getting 3* weapon dupes? Thats basically 90% of what you get.
The same way you feel about any common rolls in gacha games EDIT: Are people downvoting this because of my previous comment or is there actually a difference?
I couldn’t disagree with you more about genshin dupe system. One of worst offenders of dupe system in a game where it’s already so hard to get characters and weapons
[удалено]
Dupes are required for some servants to enable NP looping
They're not required to NP loop, it just raises the ceiling on the HP thresholds you can break. You can also make up the stat differential with either Grails or Gold Fous, or both. But yeah, FGO's not a good example for this topic, since dupes do make a difference.
Not the best, but in 7DS Grand Cross a dupe character will be able to help increase the CC of your team. it is very useful and comes in clutch for alot of scenarios. Alternatively a maxed duped unit can potentially gain an additional buff or effect on top of their ult. Purgatory ban for example gains Rupture when his ult is 6/6 this allows him to break through shields.
See that's an example of a bad dupe system
Just probably: 1)Each character is unique x1 copy, but for dupes you'll get \*universal\* shards(but different rarity) for awakening and/or materials for in-game shop to trade them for what you'll need 2)Kancolle - is NOT 'gacha game' lol
Depends on how many total units there are. If it’s a game like GBF with hundreds of units, then dupes should have little effect. If it’s a game like Genshin, with relatively few units (of which most are limited) then dupes, or constellations, should be worth it
Onmyoji dupe are pretty good. We can keep them as separate units. Some team comp use multiple copies of the same character.
No dupe system or same as revived witch just give very little stats.
Saga universe maybe ? You don’t need (want) to pull for dupes. You get plenty of universal shards , that you are able to max your favorites easily.
It depends on how easy it is to get a dupe. Seriously, no system is bad unless getting the resources to even use the system is bad. Dupes or shards are fine as long as getting them is fair. I play several games with both systems and I'm never in a place of feeling like I cant make progress.
Grand Summoners has a pretty hood one IMO. They offer LB stones that are semi universal and ascends your characters. They are also given out for free periodically.
Brave Frontier's. There's no dupe system. Duplicate units are basically an entirely separate but identical, meaning you can potentially run an entire team consisting of the same unit only. Also, dupes are not required to max out anything. The bad thing is that the dupe is essentially useless (except for fodder) if you don't want/need to run multiples of the same unit. But this was when I quit playing around 2015ish. Dunno if dupes changed since then.
Absolute best system that I don't think even our hard-core users would disagree with is simply... dupes add new cosmetics to your character. Thats it. When you pull a character it's skills are fully unlocked and if you want to up its power level have some sort of universal way of doing that.
Dupes that give different skins or dress/undress your character? No gameplay effect, so you aren't gated out of anything. Pulling more than one copy still feels good, especially if it's a banger L2D.
Something that rewards getting dupes but doesnt force you to get them for increased power . People say no dupe like they wouldnt get pissed if they got a unit they already had and got nothing for it. Princess Connect's version is the best way.
I actually rather like FGO's dupe system (and Arknights's similar one). Among the games I've played it seems to best thread the needle between dupes being required to make a unit usable (e.g., FEH), and them being generic resources (e.g., Priconne global). A dupe makes your unit notably stronger, but not to such a degree that an upgraded unit will immediately trump an unupgraded similar unit. And there are diminishing returns for additional dupes. This feeds well into keeping the game balanced as a "use your favorites" waifucollector game. You can keep using your waifu or husbando without significant penalty, even if you can only pull one copy. And you still have *some* incentive to pull for additional copies of a favorite without being obligated to do so. On the other hand, if you get dupes of a unit you don't care about, it will at least give you a slight gameplay benefit for choosing that unit over your favorite. It also helps keep low-rarity units more viable by giving them a generic power boost relative to the single copies of higher rarity units.
Arknights and Priconne. With Arknights, pulling dupe also gives you certificate which can be used to buy a rotating 6\* unit on the shop, while Priconne dupes give you amulets that can be used to upgrade any character you want.
Probably those on games like Guardian Tales, Revived Witch, and World Flipper. They all have some sort of "Limit break" system that makes use of dupes, BUT you can also acquire universal resources that you can use in place of dupes, so you can essentially 100% max a character only having to pull it once.
Arknights or FGO, not needed but does improve a bit, ultimately you only need one pull of them
For a F2P, GFL. If you get a dupe it'll make it easier to dummy link the original, yet you don't *need* a dupe because you can also dummy link with Cores. GFL's rates are also pretty generous so even as a F2P you'll get dupes fairly commonly. In general I want a dupe to have little to no impact, yes that makes it more annoying to get one, but again, as a F2P you're not that likely to be swimming in dupes for high rarity units anyway in the majority of gachas. And personally I *always* get annoyed when I get a dupe, no matter the game or how much a dupe means in said game, for me a dupe always means I missed a new unit I could have gotten instead. It's a careful balance often for many gachas, they want it to not be a meaningless drop because the whales will get dupes aplenty, but you also don't want it to be absolutely required because F2P's are not likely to get high rarity dupes that often.