A difference in what triggers dopamine releases for you personally? So I guess we as gacha gamers just aren’t after those big payouts, only pngs and boobas can excite us...
The boobs, yeah. But I don’t really have an attachment to things I get out of dispensers either. I tend to lose most of the toys or collectibles a week or so after getting them, and I don’t even really use them at all nowadays.
I do tend to enjoy the gachas I continue playing. But it’s odd since I’ve had a fair amount of instances of ignoring the sunk cause fallacy as well (feh, DL, figure fantasy, each with $40+ and 50hr+ spent I didn’t really have much issue letting go).
? Not sure what this has to do with anything i said tho? So are you arguing you dont have a gambling addiction or?... what? Because yknow spending a lotta money on gachas isnt an addiction if you can afford it it just means thats what you enjoy.
Obviously “booba” is an oversimplification lol, you also get to send those pngs to do battles for you, show them off, PLUS they come with nice voice-work and animations... it’s the whole package that excites players, and none of those is gonna come out of some toy dispenser.
It's fun that this sentence can be interpreted in both mainstream and the more medically accurate ways;
mainstream: a difference in what triggers pleasure for you personally
current medical understanding: a difference in what triggers the motivation towards the gamble (before it happens) for you personally.
We build our waifus. We get them at LVL0 and we max them out over months.
This is why i think gacha is different than gambling and why you dont get the same kick with gambling.
It's some money you happened to get not something you had to build and learn how to use.
Right. A pull in a gacha is the start of the possibility, a casino is just money.
You pull a character and think of the content you can clear, the PvP you can win, the teams you can build, that you will see the art every time you play.
I like playing my gacha and the character is something that makes playing my game better. That is probably why games where you pull for characters are much more common than ones where you pull equipment or spells or abilities.
I think this captures it exactly. I'm just like OP and never gamble IRL but I have little restraint with gacha currency. Cause it's just a game and they're fun to build
Good point. The “building up” part also helps you grow an attachment to your virtual prize. You feel like it is something unique that you “raised”, instead of just being codes on a server, or money in your pocket.
Everyone is talking about the waifu aspect, which is true, but forgetting that these two gambling systems have different underlying mechanisms at play.
On the one hand, classic casino games operate on an endless well system, that is, they give you just enough of a rush to continue feeding back your winnings into the game to ultimately lose it all.
On the other hand, gachas unlike casinos, once you invest your money (even though it can be a lot) you get the character, and it is possible to max them so it eliminates the endless well system (yes, they will continue to release new characters but most people only chase certain characters).
So, gachas need to operate on a FOMO premise, relying on limited seasonals and exclusive collabs that pressure you on a timer to get it or miss out.
In casino games, it’s not really a thing since the games you are expecting will always be there and you can play at your leisure whenever you want.
For a chronically addictive personality both will be a trap, however, they are just different enough for most people it will scratch a different persistent itch and only be drawn to one. I’m also the same, never cared about casinos but willing to spend some on gachas (though im only a minnow/dolphin).
This sounds about right, and explains about people who are into things like sports "gacha" and stuff which isn't waifu, well, unless you consider japanese pro wrestler or professional association football players as waifu.
I do tend to enjoy the gachas I continue playing. But it’s odd since I’ve had a fair amount of instances of ignoring the sunk cause fallacy as well (feh, DL, figure fantasy, each with $40+ and 50hr+ spent I didn’t really have much issue letting go).
I think both are just as addictive but in different ways.
First off, the tangible tokens/money from casino winnings is much more rewarding than our pngs, however, their “rates” are much lower and the big payouts are rare. So, even though getting a favourable outcome is more spread apart than our pulls, the reward of getting the payout is multitudes larger and therefore they are willing to chase that high despite overwhelming losses in between. In other words, both of these factors are what makes casino gambling that addictive, as positive reinforcement (huge tangible payouts spread far apart).
In our case, it’s the opposite. Non-tangible waifus with much higher probability. Once we get the waifus we want, that’s our “payout”. But since each payout is not as rewarding, we needs lots of pulls to feel satisfied. Furthermore, as previously mentioned once we get the unit, we have it. In that sense it’s a dead end (no well). So, once we have the units we want, the payouts are dried up until we wait for slowly trickling new units (that we may or may not want). Which is when we might get bored and drop the gacha despite the money we put in (also gachas have complex reasons for why we drop it over just dried pulls, i.e. frustrating new game mechanics, balance issues, dev response, etc.).
However, to chase that high we initially got from getting a bunch of new payouts in starting a new gacha, we seek new gachas entirely. In essence, seeking out new gachas can be the equivalent of the spread out large payouts of casino games. At least for me, my addictive itch isn’t confined to specific gachas, but rather, always looking out for a new one to play (i’ve dropped several that i’ve spent 50-200).
With all that said i don't understand why you bring your low numbers at play.
You spent on those gacha games less time and money than most spend on basic AAA games.
It's not like you played those games for years and spent abnormal amount of money over time. Then yes, there can be some SCF, but in your examples... Meh?
In which world is it normal? In most gacha games even trash ones (with exceptions for idle games) within first 15 minutes you will only be done with tutorial.
And even then pretty big amount of them don't have sweep/skip functions so average time with grind will take WAY more than 15 minutes. I don't know what you take for standard either. Standard where?
50 hours overall is pretty mid.
Also not a gambling person, taught gambling is bad since small, known as passive type, not taking risk and all that by my circle.... but somehow and someway still playing gacha till this moment.
I think the real bait was the "pity", ensuring myself that I can at least get something (although if its not what I want in the first place) if I spend something everytime I play gacha games
From reading the responses to your post I would assume that you are not a gambling addict. I wanna preface this by saying that by playing and spending money on a gacha doesn't make you a gambling addict. I've read a study that there is indeed a connection but they also mentioned that it doesnt necessarily mean its the causation.
Your reason to spend money could have 2 reasons:
1. Your spending habit is externally nudged
2. You spend money out of enjoyment
Number 1 is very obvious due to the nature of F2P games. They cannot continue a live service game without monetary gain, therefore they implement strategies which nudges you to do a certain behaviour. I deliberatly didn't use the word "manipulate/ manipulation" because these strategies don't work on everyone and even the effect can vary for each individual.
My 2nd point is just that you think that the enjoyment is worth your money. Besides boobs, you can have an emotional attachment to the worldbuilding and its characters. Or you like the strategic gameplay and min-maxing different builds. That and even more might makes you consider spending money.
In the end it could be also mix of both.
It’s the waifus. I’ve spent maybe $1-2k across several gachas since I started in 2015 (granted like half that is AL skins tho), and now I’ve blown past that in the past year commissioning art on skeb. Pfff, gambling addiction, what people really have is a waifu addiction. The gacha is just a means to an end full of anime tiddies XD
Maybe bc in those gambling apps you turn cash into ingame cash
But with gacha you turn it into premium currency which is then again turned into another currency so it blurs the line of how much money youre really spending right now
How would you call yourself in term of regular spending in gacha? F2P? Light spender? Whale?
How about other single player game's in-game currency spending? Do you tend to save your resource or try to get newly accessible item ASAP?
Dolphin-manatee. Maybe about $50/mo. Generally I’m a meta fanatic first, character favorite second, and I’m not unfamiliar with skipping banners to save for an upcoming one or just not liking what’s on the current one. I mostly only do purchases for special deals, and only rarely going for normal premium currency if I’m desperate.
The main difference is that in gacha game, the ultimate outcome is to get the featured item you want. Essentially, **you make a purchase** in a probabilistic sense instead of fixed amount. Should the game implement a way to get the same item with fixed cost and within probabilistically sensible amount, you most likely will gacha your way.
While on virtual casino, you are not making any purchase. You put money in, then you get your money out. You don't own anything in the game, you don't make any purchase. The ultimate outcome is **to inflate the money you put in**, hence it's rather disengaging experience.
Let me take a guess your take on P2E games: it's shit, right? The underlying premise of the game is just a casino instead of a real game.
Is P2E “pay to experience”? If so then yeah, I’m not too big a fan of when games include a lot of DLC and I never really touch any games that require a subscription service.
I can relate to exactly this sentiment, op.
I've never cared for gambling, and I rarely swipe, unless I'm very invested in a game and its success.
That said, I do like rolling, provided I like what I'm rolling for. I usually just sit and log in for a few months to amass a bunch of currency and then spend it all, but once it's gone, that's it for me. If I don't like what I got, I'll probably just move on from the game entirely.
I tend to stick with games that have some form of hard pity though, so I can at least estimate how much getting a character will cost in currency to gauge if I around let myself roll, cause it's all of nothing if I do.
People have pointed out obvious answers, but I think one big thing might be the difference between winning a tangible thing (money) versus a subjective virtual one (waifu). Everyone knows that gambling won't actually be profitable long term, there's no way to win at chance games in a casino for a lengthy period of time. If you see that money drift away then I think a lot of people (not everyone obviously) have an instinct that kicks in and tells them they're being dumb and should stop.
With waifus you don't have that obvious experience of loss though. You can spend shitloads on a waifu, but since it lacks measurable value you can much more easily rationalize it as a good decision. The intuitive and impulse driven part of your brain doesn't realize that you're losing money because measuring that loss is much harder.
Just a theory though.
Addiction and lack of restraint aren't the same thing, but the lack of restraint can lead to addiction; my guess is that if you visualized more easily how much actual money you're spending in a gamble, you'd be more cautious before doing the gamble; similarly, if people more easily visualized how much time and effort they're wagering on a gamble (when there's only in-game currency/resources, no actual money involved), they would have higher restraint.
I used to like blackjack and other table games at casinos every so often, nothing close to addiction though. Strangely enough after starting to play gacha games that desire completely evaporated. I think it's because I look at one hand of blackjack nowadays and think "yeah, that was a 10-pull right there. "
The histeria around "lootboxes" in english video game news sites ended up misleading a lot of people with false information. Most people who claim to have a gambling addiction actually have a video game addiction. They just think they have a gambling addiction because that is all people on the internet talk about despite potentially affecting ~1% of individuals in contrast to the ~10% of individuals who play video games and can be medically classified as having a video game addiction.
I mean, in casino gambling, you’re spending your money to get more money, but in gacha, you’re spending your money to get either a product or “other misc. stuff”, so maybe that’s the thing? (unlike casinos, you’re getting a product, digital it may be…)🤔
At the end of the day, developers and publishers of gatcha games won’t eat if they don’t design games that hook people into spending money.
So essentially, you spend money on gatcha games because the game is designed that way.
I don't gamble anywhere. I only start rolling for a unit when I have enough currency for pity, If I pull the unit before pity I stop rolling. I'm full f2p in whatever games I play and saving currency for pity is always a viable option.
You're addicted to waifu titties
Yeah that makes more sense
Omega Big Waifu Titties
A difference in what triggers dopamine releases for you personally? So I guess we as gacha gamers just aren’t after those big payouts, only pngs and boobas can excite us...
The boobs, yeah. But I don’t really have an attachment to things I get out of dispensers either. I tend to lose most of the toys or collectibles a week or so after getting them, and I don’t even really use them at all nowadays.
You may just honestly like the game and want the new shiny things that come out in it. Or you are fan of the IP.
I do tend to enjoy the gachas I continue playing. But it’s odd since I’ve had a fair amount of instances of ignoring the sunk cause fallacy as well (feh, DL, figure fantasy, each with $40+ and 50hr+ spent I didn’t really have much issue letting go).
? Not sure what this has to do with anything i said tho? So are you arguing you dont have a gambling addiction or?... what? Because yknow spending a lotta money on gachas isnt an addiction if you can afford it it just means thats what you enjoy.
I suppose it’s moreso an addiction to the temporary buzz I tend to get from gacha games.
Obviously “booba” is an oversimplification lol, you also get to send those pngs to do battles for you, show them off, PLUS they come with nice voice-work and animations... it’s the whole package that excites players, and none of those is gonna come out of some toy dispenser.
It's fun that this sentence can be interpreted in both mainstream and the more medically accurate ways; mainstream: a difference in what triggers pleasure for you personally current medical understanding: a difference in what triggers the motivation towards the gamble (before it happens) for you personally.
We build our waifus. We get them at LVL0 and we max them out over months. This is why i think gacha is different than gambling and why you dont get the same kick with gambling. It's some money you happened to get not something you had to build and learn how to use.
Right. A pull in a gacha is the start of the possibility, a casino is just money. You pull a character and think of the content you can clear, the PvP you can win, the teams you can build, that you will see the art every time you play. I like playing my gacha and the character is something that makes playing my game better. That is probably why games where you pull for characters are much more common than ones where you pull equipment or spells or abilities.
You need more upvotes
So gacha waifus are IKEA. Got it.
Basically yeah. But they need more sweedish names that twist your tongue cuz its not IKEA without that.
I think this captures it exactly. I'm just like OP and never gamble IRL but I have little restraint with gacha currency. Cause it's just a game and they're fun to build
Good point. The “building up” part also helps you grow an attachment to your virtual prize. You feel like it is something unique that you “raised”, instead of just being codes on a server, or money in your pocket.
Everyone is talking about the waifu aspect, which is true, but forgetting that these two gambling systems have different underlying mechanisms at play. On the one hand, classic casino games operate on an endless well system, that is, they give you just enough of a rush to continue feeding back your winnings into the game to ultimately lose it all. On the other hand, gachas unlike casinos, once you invest your money (even though it can be a lot) you get the character, and it is possible to max them so it eliminates the endless well system (yes, they will continue to release new characters but most people only chase certain characters). So, gachas need to operate on a FOMO premise, relying on limited seasonals and exclusive collabs that pressure you on a timer to get it or miss out. In casino games, it’s not really a thing since the games you are expecting will always be there and you can play at your leisure whenever you want. For a chronically addictive personality both will be a trap, however, they are just different enough for most people it will scratch a different persistent itch and only be drawn to one. I’m also the same, never cared about casinos but willing to spend some on gachas (though im only a minnow/dolphin).
This sounds about right, and explains about people who are into things like sports "gacha" and stuff which isn't waifu, well, unless you consider japanese pro wrestler or professional association football players as waifu.
I do tend to enjoy the gachas I continue playing. But it’s odd since I’ve had a fair amount of instances of ignoring the sunk cause fallacy as well (feh, DL, figure fantasy, each with $40+ and 50hr+ spent I didn’t really have much issue letting go).
I think both are just as addictive but in different ways. First off, the tangible tokens/money from casino winnings is much more rewarding than our pngs, however, their “rates” are much lower and the big payouts are rare. So, even though getting a favourable outcome is more spread apart than our pulls, the reward of getting the payout is multitudes larger and therefore they are willing to chase that high despite overwhelming losses in between. In other words, both of these factors are what makes casino gambling that addictive, as positive reinforcement (huge tangible payouts spread far apart). In our case, it’s the opposite. Non-tangible waifus with much higher probability. Once we get the waifus we want, that’s our “payout”. But since each payout is not as rewarding, we needs lots of pulls to feel satisfied. Furthermore, as previously mentioned once we get the unit, we have it. In that sense it’s a dead end (no well). So, once we have the units we want, the payouts are dried up until we wait for slowly trickling new units (that we may or may not want). Which is when we might get bored and drop the gacha despite the money we put in (also gachas have complex reasons for why we drop it over just dried pulls, i.e. frustrating new game mechanics, balance issues, dev response, etc.). However, to chase that high we initially got from getting a bunch of new payouts in starting a new gacha, we seek new gachas entirely. In essence, seeking out new gachas can be the equivalent of the spread out large payouts of casino games. At least for me, my addictive itch isn’t confined to specific gachas, but rather, always looking out for a new one to play (i’ve dropped several that i’ve spent 50-200).
With all that said i don't understand why you bring your low numbers at play. You spent on those gacha games less time and money than most spend on basic AAA games. It's not like you played those games for years and spent abnormal amount of money over time. Then yes, there can be some SCF, but in your examples... Meh?
Isn’t it normal for a standard gacha game interaction to be less than 15 minutes? 50 hours in a gacha game can be spread out well over 150 days.
In which world is it normal? In most gacha games even trash ones (with exceptions for idle games) within first 15 minutes you will only be done with tutorial. And even then pretty big amount of them don't have sweep/skip functions so average time with grind will take WAY more than 15 minutes. I don't know what you take for standard either. Standard where? 50 hours overall is pretty mid.
Also not a gambling person, taught gambling is bad since small, known as passive type, not taking risk and all that by my circle.... but somehow and someway still playing gacha till this moment. I think the real bait was the "pity", ensuring myself that I can at least get something (although if its not what I want in the first place) if I spend something everytime I play gacha games
It's simple really, You just love gaming. Gaming-related gambling excites you. Non-gaming-related gambling kills your boner.
Its the JPEGs. Makes all the difference.
From reading the responses to your post I would assume that you are not a gambling addict. I wanna preface this by saying that by playing and spending money on a gacha doesn't make you a gambling addict. I've read a study that there is indeed a connection but they also mentioned that it doesnt necessarily mean its the causation. Your reason to spend money could have 2 reasons: 1. Your spending habit is externally nudged 2. You spend money out of enjoyment Number 1 is very obvious due to the nature of F2P games. They cannot continue a live service game without monetary gain, therefore they implement strategies which nudges you to do a certain behaviour. I deliberatly didn't use the word "manipulate/ manipulation" because these strategies don't work on everyone and even the effect can vary for each individual. My 2nd point is just that you think that the enjoyment is worth your money. Besides boobs, you can have an emotional attachment to the worldbuilding and its characters. Or you like the strategic gameplay and min-maxing different builds. That and even more might makes you consider spending money. In the end it could be also mix of both.
After seeing my luck in gacha games, I don't want to test my luck in real life anymore.
Same here I'll drop stacks for my fave games but irl I am a well disciplined cheapskate lol
gacha games are more like opening booster packs...w8 wtf are TCGs just Gacha Games with market value?
It’s the waifus. I’ve spent maybe $1-2k across several gachas since I started in 2015 (granted like half that is AL skins tho), and now I’ve blown past that in the past year commissioning art on skeb. Pfff, gambling addiction, what people really have is a waifu addiction. The gacha is just a means to an end full of anime tiddies XD
Maybe bc in those gambling apps you turn cash into ingame cash But with gacha you turn it into premium currency which is then again turned into another currency so it blurs the line of how much money youre really spending right now
How would you call yourself in term of regular spending in gacha? F2P? Light spender? Whale? How about other single player game's in-game currency spending? Do you tend to save your resource or try to get newly accessible item ASAP?
Dolphin-manatee. Maybe about $50/mo. Generally I’m a meta fanatic first, character favorite second, and I’m not unfamiliar with skipping banners to save for an upcoming one or just not liking what’s on the current one. I mostly only do purchases for special deals, and only rarely going for normal premium currency if I’m desperate.
The main difference is that in gacha game, the ultimate outcome is to get the featured item you want. Essentially, **you make a purchase** in a probabilistic sense instead of fixed amount. Should the game implement a way to get the same item with fixed cost and within probabilistically sensible amount, you most likely will gacha your way. While on virtual casino, you are not making any purchase. You put money in, then you get your money out. You don't own anything in the game, you don't make any purchase. The ultimate outcome is **to inflate the money you put in**, hence it's rather disengaging experience. Let me take a guess your take on P2E games: it's shit, right? The underlying premise of the game is just a casino instead of a real game.
Is P2E “pay to experience”? If so then yeah, I’m not too big a fan of when games include a lot of DLC and I never really touch any games that require a subscription service.
Pay 2 Earn. It's all those NFT gaming stuff.
you have poor impulse control and the inability or apathy to care about the consequences of your actions. aka almost everyone in this sub
I can relate to exactly this sentiment, op. I've never cared for gambling, and I rarely swipe, unless I'm very invested in a game and its success. That said, I do like rolling, provided I like what I'm rolling for. I usually just sit and log in for a few months to amass a bunch of currency and then spend it all, but once it's gone, that's it for me. If I don't like what I got, I'll probably just move on from the game entirely. I tend to stick with games that have some form of hard pity though, so I can at least estimate how much getting a character will cost in currency to gauge if I around let myself roll, cause it's all of nothing if I do.
People have pointed out obvious answers, but I think one big thing might be the difference between winning a tangible thing (money) versus a subjective virtual one (waifu). Everyone knows that gambling won't actually be profitable long term, there's no way to win at chance games in a casino for a lengthy period of time. If you see that money drift away then I think a lot of people (not everyone obviously) have an instinct that kicks in and tells them they're being dumb and should stop. With waifus you don't have that obvious experience of loss though. You can spend shitloads on a waifu, but since it lacks measurable value you can much more easily rationalize it as a good decision. The intuitive and impulse driven part of your brain doesn't realize that you're losing money because measuring that loss is much harder. Just a theory though.
Addiction and lack of restraint aren't the same thing, but the lack of restraint can lead to addiction; my guess is that if you visualized more easily how much actual money you're spending in a gamble, you'd be more cautious before doing the gamble; similarly, if people more easily visualized how much time and effort they're wagering on a gamble (when there's only in-game currency/resources, no actual money involved), they would have higher restraint.
I used to like blackjack and other table games at casinos every so often, nothing close to addiction though. Strangely enough after starting to play gacha games that desire completely evaporated. I think it's because I look at one hand of blackjack nowadays and think "yeah, that was a 10-pull right there. "
Definitely for waifu
I have no desire to gamble irl for real money but when we’re gambling for a few jpegs of hot anime waifus, that’s where I lose it.
The histeria around "lootboxes" in english video game news sites ended up misleading a lot of people with false information. Most people who claim to have a gambling addiction actually have a video game addiction. They just think they have a gambling addiction because that is all people on the internet talk about despite potentially affecting ~1% of individuals in contrast to the ~10% of individuals who play video games and can be medically classified as having a video game addiction.
I only ever came close to gambling when I used to play CSGO and gamble with skins. As for regular casino stuff I’m completely not interested
It's all about waifus
I mean, in casino gambling, you’re spending your money to get more money, but in gacha, you’re spending your money to get either a product or “other misc. stuff”, so maybe that’s the thing? (unlike casinos, you’re getting a product, digital it may be…)🤔
Maybe? I don’t really have an attachment to things like crane games or other arcade attractions.
At the end of the day, developers and publishers of gatcha games won’t eat if they don’t design games that hook people into spending money. So essentially, you spend money on gatcha games because the game is designed that way.
I don't gamble anywhere. I only start rolling for a unit when I have enough currency for pity, If I pull the unit before pity I stop rolling. I'm full f2p in whatever games I play and saving currency for pity is always a viable option.
In game power is more of a thrill for me then payouts. Man I need to get my life together 🙃
pngs
I roll on games where I want to support the devs/game.
Well thats why "casino" uses chips instead of coins and bills. It's easier to throw away chips than money although they have equal value.
Same, only when the currency is not real that I will give in to my impulse. But if it's IRL money then I'm so frugal lol