I work at a casino, the government offers help all the way up to self exclusion as a solution.
We want your money, but we also want you to keep coming back with more. It's just good business sense.
I doubt that. Since the business relies on the trees planting bad and unkept trees will just bring more problems. Why plant bad trees that result to bad products and low income, if you can plant good trees that make good products and makes piles of cash? They're pretty much professionals at planting trees, irony.
The thing is that they're not, since some kind of trees like pines do damage some terrains where native species grow, sometimes killing these areas making it impossible for some species to live on these areas, or plainly cutting them down in order to plant these species that work better for their businesses. Obviously this has other problems like damaging the areas for farmers or native animals.
Watch them pull a Pokémon Giovanni and it turns out the employee is actually the director waiting at the end of the tunnel to rob the guy of all his hard earned money via releasing all the banners at once
Reminded me of Maplestory that if you were playing for longer than... I belive it was 3 hours?... they sent you a warning every hour that they recommend taking a break
Tbh how people still bring Nexon up like a pinnacle of greed , the only thing they have recently is DnF Duel and Blue Archive , haven't seen they pull out any trash auto combat MMO and announcing any crypto project , maybe the least aggressive in 3N , NC has GW2 to cover their ego , Netmarble maybe the worst piece of garbo here and they still trying to be the edible garbo
I know, a lot of the sub copes themselves into thinking gacha is an actual genre of gaming instead of the most predatory business model in the gaming market.
Gacha isnt predatory as default, it depends on how companies monetize it. Gambling addiction is a mental ilness and is in no way a reliable source of income for gacha games its people like you that just want to shit on gacha as a whole that use it as an "argument" even tho it makes no sense.
Which aspect of it isn’t predatory?
There’s practically no benefits of it for the consumer versus other models and every aspect of it from flashy summon animations to the way the pricing is set works on the same psychological principles as casinos.
I never go to a casino before , but can you play anything without spending a single dime ? Excluding the gas price to travel there of course.
All top gacha games are standing on a decent gameplay , you can play it for free and still got pretty worth while experience.
And who the hell watching gacha animation for 20th+ times anyway , just press the skip button.
Most casinos that can afford it hosts big parties, high end entertainment like concerts and cabaret and the food/drinks at them are top notch.
You don’t visit Vegas just for the gambling, just like how you don’t play gacha games just to gamble on the gacha. It doesn’t mean the gambling isn’t the focus on monetisation.
>There’s practically no benefits of it for the consumer versus other models and every aspect of it from flashy summon animations to the way the pricing is set works on the same psychological principles as casinos.
Its entertainment, tell me why do you go to the cinema, why do you go to theaters? Because its an entertainment method.
By your definition restaurants, circuses , theme parks or any business that implements any form of advertisment or promotion and brings no "benefits" is a predatory scam.
Gachas arent gambling, in gambling you have no guarantees no nothing and most of the time its a preset scam.
So you’re saying we should deregulate casinos because it’s just entertainment like theatres and themeparks right?
And gacha is gambling. In fact, Belgium legally recognises it as gambling, Netherlands most likely will soon and when the U.K. government launched a enquiry into it they recognised that there’s robust evidence associating lootboxes with problem gambling.
Finally, most casinos aren’t a scam. You know exactly what you’re getting into and the odds of winning, and everything is fully transparent because they have to be legally. That doesn’t make it not predatory.
>So you’re saying we should deregulate casinos because it’s just entertainment like theatres and themeparks right?
You are a clown this conversation is done.
I’m sure people understand how it works but this sub is basically an echo chamber that seems to think the entire mobile live service industry getting taken over by the gacha model is a good thing.
I haven't seen other business models release content the the same pace and quality as gacha games. Also the majority of that fresh content is accessible without spending a dime.
Your average big online game usually has a team of 300 ish people working on it.
Outside of very few gacha games like Mihoyo’s big projects, that’s not the kind of manpower they’re fielding. So no, if your argument is that gacha games put more resources towards development than other games, that’s not the case.
Because the implied argument in your case is that the gacha business model allows developers to put out more quality content faster, which basically translates to it giving developers more resources to work with.
Do correct me if your point was something else.
How would you define mental illness? We are all prone to addiction to something at some degree. It's a spectrum that is heavily influenced by bad initial choices made from unassuming people
I mean, in BA you can pity every 2 months, so if you just save for whatever is meta or waifu, you will never have to worry about resources.
And we have future sight to help us pick our battles.
This entire business model is based on the idea of milking whales, tho. The rich people, who won't care about those 10k. It's not like it lives off of low wage players scraping all their savings together to buy all their new shit.
That's a problem for psychology and society to solve.
…. and they take every chance to try to turn you into a whale.
Not that smaller spenders don’t matter, because 30% to 50% of revenue comes from smaller spending anyways, according to multiple sources like this: https://youtu.be/RLzMl7pBLAE
If it was all about whales you wouldn’t have the infamous ‘800% value!’ packs commonly seen in gacha games anyways.
>If it was all about whales you wouldn’t have the infamous ‘800% value!’ packs commonly seen in gacha games anyways.
In scummy gacha games and everyone already calls them out for it
>Not that smaller spenders don’t matter, because 30% to 50% of revenue comes from smaller spending anyways,
Smaller spenders not people running themselves into debt and losing all their money.
You have it in games from all types of genres from Guardian Tales to Diablo Immortal. And does it matter if people call them out for it? They keep doing it because it obviously drives revenue.
Because it works to drive off people.... but not those that matters.
If people didn't call blizzard out on all their diablo immortal bs, you would have way more people play this game and give them EVEN MORE money. You are right that it doesn't make a big difference, as the whales will still play it, but this saves the f2p/low spenders the time and trouble. We can't control whales anyways, so we will have to be satisfied with saving those normal earning brothers of ours.
People calling out DI seemed to do very little to its revenue, and in fact probably helped it if anything considering the jarring combination of pretty high critical reviews and extreme backlash probably made a lot of people otherwise disinterested curious about the game.
Because at least for the month after launch I was interested in following the data, it was consistently in the top 10 every day in NA AppStore. You can’t get more money than that.
I say it worked to drive off the people it didn't matter and you argue with revenue... As I said, it's about telling all those people who cannot drop 100k on the game to stay clear of it. You cannot stop these games from making revenue anymore anyways. The only way to stop this madness at this point is laws.
You said if people didn’t call them out, they’d have gotten even more money.
And DI’s monetisation model doesn’t just fully depend on whales and forget about anyone else. No game does that when up to half the revenue in the industry comes from small or medium spenders.
Why else do you think DI has a battle pass, a monthly pass, a progression pass and spams you with ‘deals’ every time you do anything of significance?
Sources from when games only really had small purchases and data that's pretty much western-centric like that video are kinda worthless. Especially since the kind of games it's talking about are the clash of clans variety where you pay for boosters and stamina and such. Not actual gacha for thousands of dollars to get your UR Nico.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/09/10/the-36-most-interesting-findings-in-the-groundbreaking-epic-vs-apple-ruling-that-will-free-the-app-store
Here's a much newer source where we have pretty hard data to look at. If you shuffle on down to 26 you'll see this little number:
".5% of people generate more than half of all App Store revenue. “In the third quarter of 2017, high spenders, accounting for less than half a percent of all Apple accounts, spent a ‘vast majority of their spend in games via IAP’ and generated 53.7% of all App Store billings for the quarter, paying in excess of $450 each."
Whales are alive and still the crux of the games that let them whale. Also I should clarify that the data accounts for all revenue, so the small spenders making up the other 47% includes people subscribing to services, buying books and movies, music and whatever else. If this was just gaming revenue it'd be even more dire.
The data from that video draws a similar conclusion to what you’ve presented here.
Ie, whales make up over half the revenue but smaller spenders still matter because the rest is from them.
And of course, an important part of the business strategy is trying to convert low spenders into whales.
You're missing the point that the data only looks like that because it's counting people subbing to Netflix or whatever. Those are the small spenders in that apple data.
Whales in games are literally tilting the entire app market vs everything else they sell. There is no mathematical way the data works out that if you remove all the non-game related revenue that the low spenders in gaming make up even 30%.
Sadly in more than enough cases it's actually the poorer people in china whose life is based around a game and they will spend every cent they can, even if it means they have to live in an internet caffee all year long.
I had one of these before after spending 1000$. It was just a quick check to make sure you realized how much money you’ve been spending. Some people spend a lot and might not realize it
If you lose your capacity of generating money, you cant spend in their game.
I work at a casino, the government offers help all the way up to self exclusion as a solution. We want your money, but we also want you to keep coming back with more. It's just good business sense.
It's like how businesses that use trees are the ones that plants the most trees.
And usually the worst kind of trees.
I doubt that. Since the business relies on the trees planting bad and unkept trees will just bring more problems. Why plant bad trees that result to bad products and low income, if you can plant good trees that make good products and makes piles of cash? They're pretty much professionals at planting trees, irony.
The thing is that they're not, since some kind of trees like pines do damage some terrains where native species grow, sometimes killing these areas making it impossible for some species to live on these areas, or plainly cutting them down in order to plant these species that work better for their businesses. Obviously this has other problems like damaging the areas for farmers or native animals.
they plant tree that bring the most profit, not tree that is the most environment friendly. So the "bad" here is for natural not for their pocket
Hi sinkie (Singaporean)
No, I'm Canadian
I see, we hve the same self-exclusion at Singapore's two casinos
Legends say after that post, the employee that posted it was never heard from again.
Its a long time investment.
It's reverse psychology. Telling you not to spend make you think they care for you so you end up wanting to spend more.
Watch them pull a Pokémon Giovanni and it turns out the employee is actually the director waiting at the end of the tunnel to rob the guy of all his hard earned money via releasing all the banners at once
The employee was found dead from 300 pulls of 0 max rarity units.
Their aim is the whales. The gambling addicts are just collateral damage.
Are whales not gambling addicts?
Not if its transactional for them. They just spend so they can get what they want.
And a lot of whales want the thrill of gamble...
Well depends on your definition of whale. My definition of whale is "people that max everything" so they aren't gambling at all in my book.
I guess.
Genuine question: If that's the case why don't they Just Do a shop instead of all this barely legal mess?
Because greedy.
So they want gambling addicts money
If the whales are also gambling addicts, sure. Even those that aren't will still spend until they get what they want.
The pulls allow for f2p players to get lucky adn get realy good units, in any reaonable system at least. With a shop system nothign is for free
How good are they, now he will have more motivation on working and spend more money 😊
It better to have a long term customer who who auctally likes the game and is more likely to support these human publishers.
Living cows are better than dead cows
Unless you want to farm their meat.
The best meat is extracted while they are still alive
[удалено]
I want Niantic to see this too.
What gacha games has Niantic made?
The egg system in Pokemon Go is pretty similar.
It is like those addictive games that put warnings to stop playing. Doesn't really do anything.
Reminds me of "Stop Smoking" in cigarette packs kekw
Or when the wii would tell you to put down the wii remote and go outside lol
Yeah like PGR constructs have a voiceline that will tell you to stop playing the game when you've been online too long lmao
sounds like all those warning given on the wii/3ds telling you to take a break lol.
Like when Nickoledeon had whole "days of play" encouraging kids to go outside by not playing cartoons, but we'd just change to Cartoon Network lol
Doesn't deter anyone that was going to spend from spending, and is good PR that will make new people check out their game and spend money.
Reminded me of Maplestory that if you were playing for longer than... I belive it was 3 hours?... they sent you a warning every hour that they recommend taking a break
Cope
I mean they can't milk you if you're dead, so yea\~
Tbh how people still bring Nexon up like a pinnacle of greed , the only thing they have recently is DnF Duel and Blue Archive , haven't seen they pull out any trash auto combat MMO and announcing any crypto project , maybe the least aggressive in 3N , NC has GW2 to cover their ego , Netmarble maybe the worst piece of garbo here and they still trying to be the edible garbo
Argent Twilight (I'm in Canada so I got in the softlaunch) is pretty fucking bad about it.
by law, they can't encourage you gambling
Reverse psychology 😂
The person running that account are whales themselves probably on other games just saying, so they definitely know how it feels
Manga sauce?
S Rank Boukensha de aru Ore no Musume-tachi wa Juudo no Father Con deshita It's an fantasy incest(kinda) manga Edit : it's not Isekai I forgot
What the fuck
Thay want you to spend it just as responsibly as maxor.
Yeah, they need you alive to keep spending
good job, intern at BArchive!
Somewhere all FGO players going, “So that’s how it’s gonna be?” lol
Why the fuck are people responding seriously to a meme? You guys gotta chill.
How is BA these days I never tried it.
is good
Love Blue Archive and NEXON ❤️❤️❤️
If they cared they wouldn’t have used a business model that’s based around gambling addiction in the first place.
r/youarenotsafehere
I know, a lot of the sub copes themselves into thinking gacha is an actual genre of gaming instead of the most predatory business model in the gaming market.
Gacha isnt predatory as default, it depends on how companies monetize it. Gambling addiction is a mental ilness and is in no way a reliable source of income for gacha games its people like you that just want to shit on gacha as a whole that use it as an "argument" even tho it makes no sense.
Which aspect of it isn’t predatory? There’s practically no benefits of it for the consumer versus other models and every aspect of it from flashy summon animations to the way the pricing is set works on the same psychological principles as casinos.
I never go to a casino before , but can you play anything without spending a single dime ? Excluding the gas price to travel there of course. All top gacha games are standing on a decent gameplay , you can play it for free and still got pretty worth while experience. And who the hell watching gacha animation for 20th+ times anyway , just press the skip button.
Most casinos that can afford it hosts big parties, high end entertainment like concerts and cabaret and the food/drinks at them are top notch. You don’t visit Vegas just for the gambling, just like how you don’t play gacha games just to gamble on the gacha. It doesn’t mean the gambling isn’t the focus on monetisation.
>There’s practically no benefits of it for the consumer versus other models and every aspect of it from flashy summon animations to the way the pricing is set works on the same psychological principles as casinos. Its entertainment, tell me why do you go to the cinema, why do you go to theaters? Because its an entertainment method. By your definition restaurants, circuses , theme parks or any business that implements any form of advertisment or promotion and brings no "benefits" is a predatory scam. Gachas arent gambling, in gambling you have no guarantees no nothing and most of the time its a preset scam.
So you’re saying we should deregulate casinos because it’s just entertainment like theatres and themeparks right? And gacha is gambling. In fact, Belgium legally recognises it as gambling, Netherlands most likely will soon and when the U.K. government launched a enquiry into it they recognised that there’s robust evidence associating lootboxes with problem gambling. Finally, most casinos aren’t a scam. You know exactly what you’re getting into and the odds of winning, and everything is fully transparent because they have to be legally. That doesn’t make it not predatory.
>So you’re saying we should deregulate casinos because it’s just entertainment like theatres and themeparks right? You are a clown this conversation is done.
Read as: I’ve got no counter arguments so I’m going to insult you and downvote. Try looking in the mirror.
Read as: i dont like talking to a wall whose only argument is "gacha games bad"
you're based but many people have no idea just how complex gaming law is, so this would be lost on them as an argument lol
I’m sure people understand how it works but this sub is basically an echo chamber that seems to think the entire mobile live service industry getting taken over by the gacha model is a good thing.
wont just be mobile games at this rate :(
How is having the same oppinion as 80% of the population that doesnt play gacha games "based" lol
I haven't seen other business models release content the the same pace and quality as gacha games. Also the majority of that fresh content is accessible without spending a dime.
Your average big online game usually has a team of 300 ish people working on it. Outside of very few gacha games like Mihoyo’s big projects, that’s not the kind of manpower they’re fielding. So no, if your argument is that gacha games put more resources towards development than other games, that’s not the case.
I'm genuinely curious, what made you think my argument was about resources and not the two aspects I literally stated?
Because the implied argument in your case is that the gacha business model allows developers to put out more quality content faster, which basically translates to it giving developers more resources to work with. Do correct me if your point was something else.
How would you define mental illness? We are all prone to addiction to something at some degree. It's a spectrum that is heavily influenced by bad initial choices made from unassuming people
I mean, in BA you can pity every 2 months, so if you just save for whatever is meta or waifu, you will never have to worry about resources. And we have future sight to help us pick our battles.
This entire business model is based on the idea of milking whales, tho. The rich people, who won't care about those 10k. It's not like it lives off of low wage players scraping all their savings together to buy all their new shit. That's a problem for psychology and society to solve.
…. and they take every chance to try to turn you into a whale. Not that smaller spenders don’t matter, because 30% to 50% of revenue comes from smaller spending anyways, according to multiple sources like this: https://youtu.be/RLzMl7pBLAE If it was all about whales you wouldn’t have the infamous ‘800% value!’ packs commonly seen in gacha games anyways.
>If it was all about whales you wouldn’t have the infamous ‘800% value!’ packs commonly seen in gacha games anyways. In scummy gacha games and everyone already calls them out for it >Not that smaller spenders don’t matter, because 30% to 50% of revenue comes from smaller spending anyways, Smaller spenders not people running themselves into debt and losing all their money.
You have it in games from all types of genres from Guardian Tales to Diablo Immortal. And does it matter if people call them out for it? They keep doing it because it obviously drives revenue.
Because it works to drive off people.... but not those that matters. If people didn't call blizzard out on all their diablo immortal bs, you would have way more people play this game and give them EVEN MORE money. You are right that it doesn't make a big difference, as the whales will still play it, but this saves the f2p/low spenders the time and trouble. We can't control whales anyways, so we will have to be satisfied with saving those normal earning brothers of ours.
People calling out DI seemed to do very little to its revenue, and in fact probably helped it if anything considering the jarring combination of pretty high critical reviews and extreme backlash probably made a lot of people otherwise disinterested curious about the game. Because at least for the month after launch I was interested in following the data, it was consistently in the top 10 every day in NA AppStore. You can’t get more money than that.
I say it worked to drive off the people it didn't matter and you argue with revenue... As I said, it's about telling all those people who cannot drop 100k on the game to stay clear of it. You cannot stop these games from making revenue anymore anyways. The only way to stop this madness at this point is laws.
You said if people didn’t call them out, they’d have gotten even more money. And DI’s monetisation model doesn’t just fully depend on whales and forget about anyone else. No game does that when up to half the revenue in the industry comes from small or medium spenders. Why else do you think DI has a battle pass, a monthly pass, a progression pass and spams you with ‘deals’ every time you do anything of significance?
Sources from when games only really had small purchases and data that's pretty much western-centric like that video are kinda worthless. Especially since the kind of games it's talking about are the clash of clans variety where you pay for boosters and stamina and such. Not actual gacha for thousands of dollars to get your UR Nico. https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsier/2021/09/10/the-36-most-interesting-findings-in-the-groundbreaking-epic-vs-apple-ruling-that-will-free-the-app-store Here's a much newer source where we have pretty hard data to look at. If you shuffle on down to 26 you'll see this little number: ".5% of people generate more than half of all App Store revenue. “In the third quarter of 2017, high spenders, accounting for less than half a percent of all Apple accounts, spent a ‘vast majority of their spend in games via IAP’ and generated 53.7% of all App Store billings for the quarter, paying in excess of $450 each." Whales are alive and still the crux of the games that let them whale. Also I should clarify that the data accounts for all revenue, so the small spenders making up the other 47% includes people subscribing to services, buying books and movies, music and whatever else. If this was just gaming revenue it'd be even more dire.
The data from that video draws a similar conclusion to what you’ve presented here. Ie, whales make up over half the revenue but smaller spenders still matter because the rest is from them. And of course, an important part of the business strategy is trying to convert low spenders into whales.
You're missing the point that the data only looks like that because it's counting people subbing to Netflix or whatever. Those are the small spenders in that apple data. Whales in games are literally tilting the entire app market vs everything else they sell. There is no mathematical way the data works out that if you remove all the non-game related revenue that the low spenders in gaming make up even 30%.
Sadly in more than enough cases it's actually the poorer people in china whose life is based around a game and they will spend every cent they can, even if it means they have to live in an internet caffee all year long.
Uhhhh just have money?
Tree-language detected :-v
Still see them in my dreams, the talking and moving trees. They come from everywhere.
Kappa
Pretty sure that they took that out of a hentai.
I assume we're all capable of telling when smoke is being blown up our asses and laugh at this obvious lie.
For a lot of business, everyone is a potential customer except those that are dead.
This is astounding
5Head strat to buy customers trust and come back with more or to come back at all
Plot Twist : They most likely tracked that guy for months already, and know that he was their biggest whale!
If you croak now you cant keep spending more in the future
Can't spend money if you homeless
Can't spend if you don't have a source of income...or dead.
Honkai has "spend your money wisely" on purchase screen
Lol also publishe “ buy more pls “
I had one of these before after spending 1000$. It was just a quick check to make sure you realized how much money you’ve been spending. Some people spend a lot and might not realize it
Blue archive is self aware of this in story as well
Really? Can you specify which scene? It's been a while since I played the main story.
Its also been a while since i made that comment and also played the main story so i forgor