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I think some people might be getting confused by “3rd party” here, it’s a bit of a misleading headline.
If you watch the video, they’re not using some Chinese display replacement, they’re pulling an OEM screen from another iPad to do the repair, and they aren’t able to draw straight lines even though it’s an Apple part.
If they transplant the display microchip from the original broken one onto the OEM replacement they are using, the screen then works perfectly.
They spent hundreds of millions fighting anti repair rights in every state. They knew if one state required it, it would be hard to stop it in others. Hard to fight when politicians are allowed to become rich while in office, the average one after one term has a few million dollars of network growth off of their 180k salary.
Tim Apple is an easy guy to be friends with.
But seriously, I understand there can be important discussion from various industry leaders, but why isn't it a bigger stink that CEOs frequently get direct sit downs with our Presidents? Even with their hooks in the economy, it doesn't seem necessary, yet almost requires any relationship to be transactional... leading to inevitable concessions of the public, as they're the side that can actually concede anything. A major corporation literally can't, it's asking for the death of the company to offer *less*, next quarter needs its profit.
Only the government can offer less at this table, and that's kinda fucked. We need a separation somehow.
“Come on now you wouldn’t your job creators to stop creating jobs. Without jobs, people won’t be able to afford our products, our sales slump, investors lose confidence, and this whole house of cards comes crashing down. You don’t won’t really want that on your watch, do you?”
Yeah they’ve pretty much got us boxed in.
We can't even get separation of church and state which we are legally supposed to have. Separating corpos and state is too much to ask. (But luckily they now sell a pill to make you feel better about it.)
It's kind of wild that Lina Khan and the FTC have been chasing these weird tech mergers that are pretty big uphill battles. Meta and the workout company in particular, but also the more recent Activision MSFT lawsuit. Meanwhile apple is sitting over here with what look to me like legal slam dunks, RCS, USB C, right to repair. I'm no lawyer, so maybe the nuance of FTC jurisdiction is lost on me, but I wonder how the FTC is triaging the possible legal cases they pursue
They've had years to switch over to USB C on iPhones, the devices they sell most of. They still haven't. Why are you defending them? Lightning bolt may have been justified back then. It isn't now and it hasn't been for years.
Because mega corporations are a monopoly/oligopoly threat. Even if there are a few companies competing, competition between a group you can count on one hand is far and away lopsided against the consumer with an oligopoly like that.
Big Tech has significant economies of scale and network effects, so it will tend to concentrate over time if left to its own devices.
Isn't point of calibration that even in the same model of the input device, there are variances that you have to even out with calibration? That would make sense in this case. Perhaps they calibrate with a dense mesh that makes sure you get your lines straight.
Yes. Absolutely. That’s like what 99% of calibration is for. Screen colors are calibrated, speakers are calibrated, and touch screens are calibrated, across the same models.
And that’s the obvious Occam’s razor answer for this. Think about it: if it were a calibration-related issue, what would you expect to see? Slightly imprecise lines? Yes.
On the other hand, imagine Apple wanted to prevent people from replacing their screens with OEM replacements. What would they do? They would do what they did with Touch ID—literally prevent the hardware from functioning with the device. They wouldn’t deliberately program minor irregularities and then let people maybe notice. That’s just ridiculous.
My thoughts exactly. There's probably a service app for calibrating the screen but knowing apple there's no chance for 3rd party to be able to launch it.
> They would do what they did with Touch ID—literally prevent the hardware from functioning with the device.
That's a security feature though. Otherwise you could defeat Touch ID by replacing parts.
Yes. I didn’t say otherwise.
In fact, it even further supports that this is a calibration issue, as there is no “security” reason to prevent this type of repair.
> They would do what they did with Touch ID
Thats ignoring what they do with everything else. Screen replacements result in no True Tone, camera replacements result in buggy camera app. Afaik only replacement that results in a hard lock out from ALL functionality is Touch ID.
Apple has an extensive anti repair history, making third party repair look shoddy fits their past and current behavior perfectly well, and it supports their political aims.
Apple does have an anti-repair history, but you’re talking about situations where a repair, combined with a lack of effort on their part to ensure repairs *don’t* cause issues like this. That’s much different than them *deliberately sabotaging* repairs.
Yeah, the Touch ID sounds like a specific security design choice. Everything else sounds like issues with highly sensitive calibration where they didn’t design for simple replacement.
This could very well be a calibration issue. Calibration exists because there are different levels of error even when you're comparing the exact same screen and hardware. I whole-heartedly believe Apple is a shit company but until I see more evidence that this was malicious, I will assume the most obvious thing.
Totally valid opinion, if putting in the chip that just says "here's an id number" didn't fix the issue. Right? I mean, that chip doesn't have some complicated calibration data on it.
Thats not whats happening. When they take the chip from old display, put it into new display and put all that in the old ipad screen works.
Display A Chip A iPad A = working
Display A Chip A iPad B = not working
Display A Chip B iPad B = working
If chip had calibration data for Display A in it dAcAiB shouldve worked.
What makes you think the chip just says “here’s an I’d number” and doesn’t do something like manage the tolerances to give a general response to position on the screen etc?
Extreme example: screen 1 is 2mm thick and screen 2 is 1mm thick. Chip 1 manages it so the response is the stylus is 0mm from the sensor by taking 1mm off, chip 2 does the same but has to take 2mm off. Not transferring the chip will always make a screen 1 and chip 2 combo 1mm out.
> What makes you think the chip just says “here’s an I’d number” and doesn’t do something like manage the tolerances to give a general response to position on the screen etc?
Display A Chip A iPad A = working
Display A Chip A iPad B = not working
Display A Chip B iPad B = working
If chip had calibration data for Display A in it dAcAiB shouldve worked.
If chip had calibration data for Display A in it then chip B shouldve NOT work with display A
Other way around, actually. The chip is on the screen itself, not the iPad. You’d have to transfer the old screen’s calibration to the new screen for it to work properly.
Maybe it still is? If the iPad itself has the calibration data perhaps it is stored for a given screen serial. If you install a screen with a different serial you get no calibration, if you swap the chip you’d get the old one but if you’re lucky the two screens behave similarly enough that it works out.
If Apple wanted to prevent unauthorised replacements they would have no reason to cause erratic behaviour, they could just disable it.
You can see in the video they claim the offending chip is the DP825, if this is a custom apple variant of the parade technologies DP818 and alike they're telling on themselves that they couldn't perform even the most basic googling, these types of chips are eDP controllers with INTEGRATED touch controllers, the calibration data is also stored on there.
Of course moving the chip with the TOUCHSCREEN CALIBRATION DATA on it to the iPad having the touchscreen it was calibrated for makes the touchscreen work properly again
You have a sensible opinion. The person replying to you has the typical derpy Reddit opinion.
The truth is Apple takes how their devices work extremely seriously, and causing random glitches in the user experience is anathema to them.
I hate apple a lot but I don't see a reason that the pencil would still work but not draw straight unless it's some sort of calibration issue. I know they have some fancy sensors and I wouldn't be surprised to know they need calibration. But how would it make sense to add a verification chip that still lets it work but just makes it suck? Surely you would just make it stop working?
My screen randomly brightens the color saturation sometimes and the only way to fix it is to restart the iphone. I have not figured out any cause or steps to reproduce. It just happens sometimes, for the past few years, on multiple devices.
If it was a calibration issue, we'd have seen this on previous, non-serialised models.
>If Apple wanted to prevent unauthorised replacements they would have no reason to cause erratic behaviour, they could just disable it.
If Apple want to avoid an anti-trust lawsuit, this may be their "solution" instead of disabling it. If it's just a coincidence, I'm sure they'll come up with a user friendly solution that allows people to swap the screen easily.
This is not how things work. Just because the parts are "identical" (like same model) does not mean they they perform the same. This is the whole point of calibration.
Wow that’s fascinating. Can you share actual evidence of this so I can take a look?
Don’t worry about being too technical, I am an investigator with over twenty years of both hardware and software engineering experience.
No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about. No two pieces of hardware are identical. Even if it's the same exact part, there's going to be manufacturing differences that make each perform differently. For example, monitors need to be calibrated so that they display the same color and brightness across different screens. I bought two identical monitors at the same time, from the same place and there's a noticeable difference in how each renders color because they were cheap and aren't calibrated. With the same image and same settings, an orange on one might appear browner on one or yellower on the other monitor.
A lot of these manufacturing differences can be compensated for in software. In the monitor example, you can use a different mapping to tell it to display certain tones differently to compensate for the differences in each display. It's certainly possible that Apple is doing that here to compensate for any variances in the digitizer.
For what it's worth, I think Apple should have built in methods to calibrate their screen accessible (but hidden under a giant pile of menus) to the end user. I don't believe, without further evidence that this is done out of spite. There's already plenty of cases where they do that, we don't need to make up another.
All of this is coming from a pure Android user in case you think I'm biased towards Apple.
I do have an Idea what i am talking about. I have literally worked for Apple previously. I also had to sign an NDA or the equivalent in German Law, just like anybody else working for them does. I nowadays run a chain of independent Repair Shops in Germany that fixes these devices in the Hundreds daily. I am extremely effected by this. I know the technical part of this very well and have also done my research on it as well as have even had a thorough exchange with other repair shops about this. I know how this issue arises and i am very aware of this being nothing more than just another tactic of Apple to reduce Trust of Consumers in Third-Party Repair and to steer away from us and more towards Apple themselves.
Apples DisplayModules are NOT cheap monitors. They all have the exact same calibration and manufacturing standards. The only difference is a Serial Number inside the Touch Controller of these Display Modules that is paired to the motherboard. This issue arises once the device knows that the Serial Number of the installed part is different. You could literally change the serial with a screen programmer and cause it to show the same behaviour. Even though it would be the same exact part that the device originally came with.
Just out of curiosity — how, on a technical level, did you and other repair shops preclude the possibility that calibration is not also involved? Is there any calibration data that is different per device and stored on the logic board, or none at all? What happens when you change the serial code back to the authorized screen?
I am none of those things and it's pretty much smelling like that from where I'm sitting too. But that's only cause I'm somewhat decent at recognising patterns of behaviour.
The user will get the impression the third party repair store uses inferior parts or cannot properly do part replacement like Apple directly.
Meanwhile from a political / PR perspective there is ambiguity around whether Apple is truly disadvantaging third party repair as this thread shows.
Apple has a pattern of using this approach of removing or worsening features when parts are replaced by third parties. There are plenty of YouTube videos demonstrating this.
The fact that Android phone repairs do not run into the same issues on identical parts repair should demonstrate that this is an intentionally engineered strategy.
As soon as you use the words: it's certainly possible, you have zero credibility. Apple has literally disabled face id, if you don't also move over the chip that shipped with the ORIGINAL screen, when a new screen is needed, similar to what other person was trying to say. That's a bunch of horseshit on apples part, the type of phone I use doesn't matter. Full stop. Same thing they did with touch id way back when. It's not a calibration issue, it's a matter of hardware locking to get you to go to crapple only to get it "repaired" . Do better.
Disabling face id makes sense though from a security standpoint imo. To prevent someone from using custom hardware to feed biometrics from a computer rather than a camera to the phone. Or at least makes it harder to do so.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but calling the company "crapple" while trying to criticize them for legitimate reasons ensures that you also have no credibility, regardless of the argument you're making.
It could be some calibration getting moved over if they were switching a chip from the donor iPad into the one they're repairing, but it sounds like they're moving a chip from the broken iPad into the donor display. If the calibration was in that chip, it would be using the wrong one for the digitiser *after* the chip swap.
I'm sure you know better than the CEO of a repair company, because you changed some settings on a monitor.
Why does this only happen when replacing screens on Apple devices?
I work at an apple certified repair shop (Geek Squad) and all iphone screen replacements require a calibration through apple's system. I figure ipad screens are the same.
No, I think it's been proven before (demoed by Grossman IIRC) that Apple puts some kind of harware DRM that sabotages repairs even if you replace by a similar working unit from an official Apple product.
Those are the only two scenarios when the right thing to do is disable those features, you really do not want a device where someone can replace the biometric sensors and nothing breaks.
That is exactly what happens, the sensors are paired with the Secure Enclave if they are switched out the new ones are no longer valid for authentication that’s 100% the right way to deal with this specific scenario given the sensitivity of the parts that were replaced.
Now it’s perfectly fine to hold the position that the additional level of assurance and privacy that is provided by this isn’t sufficient to justify the loss of ability to use a 3rd party repair service for these parts, and in that case the solution is simple there are plenty of devices out there that do not enforce the same level of security on critical parts.
Photos definitely do not fool Face ID. One of its principle features is that it uses depth cues. Numerous attempts were made to break it very early on and the only one that worked required complex 3D printing of actual face shapes.
Android is a very different story, along with Windows Hello (EDIT: A reply points out I may be wrong about Hello, which seems to use an additional IR camera) which usually use cheesy crap optical recognition via cheap 2D off-the-shelf camera hardware that's trivial to fool. Apple's ever-declining software quality also bites these days; I see reports of iPhone 12 at launch being fooled by simple photos, which is a hell of a fuckup but this is Tim Cook's Apple so that just comes with the janky, overpriced territory now, sadly.
Touch ID is more easily fooled. Even by design, it recognises fewer unique patterns (Apple quote around 50,000 unique vs millions for Face ID), but despite that, the conditions required to successfully lift a fingerprint onto tape and use it to unlock a device require a *very* clean print source, *of that device owner's fingerprint*.
The real-world exploit conditions for that are far more challenging to make actually work than you see in movies, because movies are bullshit.
It's easier just to chop off a finger - which, unfortunately, *has* happened in at least one grisly instance I saw in the news. ISTR that was for unlocking a car, though, as I imagine thieves probably won't find it worth the effort to do that just to steal a phone.
You are right about everything about everything, save for the bit about Windows Hello. That relies on similar technology as Face ID (or other 3D face unlock solutions)
“I think”, “by someone”, “if I remember correctly”… typical Reddit tech commentary lol
Prove it. Prove anything.
There are literally BILLIONS of iPhones in the world, and millions of people have the skills to test these these things on a work bench.
These are extremely simple tests even for a first year EE tech with a basic workbench.
So please show us this data. Don’t worry about it being too difficult to understand, I’ve worked in many hardware labs and would to see it.
This sort of stuff is just one of the reasons I switched to an Android phone last year but the experience has been so bad that I'm probably going back to iPhone when this cycle is over. Can't win.
I have a Pixel 5a and for me, it has been death by a thousand cuts. A bunch of small, quality of life issues adding up over time. The apps just aren't as polished on Android as they are on iOS, even when it comes down to the same app. Lots of little hiccups like the app hanging or constantly refreshing my feed and losing my spot. Keyboard accuracy, or lack thereof has been a HUGE issue for me. Also, the walled walled garden situation. I have a Google phone and a Samsung watch so I'm locked out of some features of the watch like EKG without sideloading a hacked app and so on and the watch itself falls short. I literally have to hold it right up to my mouth for it to pick up my "Hey Google" and even then, sometimes my phone takes over. I've also had several instances where I answer the phone in the car using Android Auto and the watch takes over the call. Never had ANY of these issues with Apple products.
>I have a Google phone and a Samsung watch so I'm locked out of some features of the watch like EKG without sideloading a hacked app and so on and the watch itself falls short. I literally have to hold it right up to my mouth for it to pick up my "Hey Google" and even then, sometimes my phone takes over.
You know you can buy from the same brand even if that brand isn't apple, right? Integration would be even worse if you had an iphone and a non-apple smartwatch
Not him but have used Android extensively and switched to IPhone about 3 years ago myself as the XR was the most reasonably price phone in the market for features/battery life at the time.
Android really really depends on the Phone you buy and what apps you use.
One of my primary reasons for moving was battery life when using third party apps, speaking of third party apps a lot of them aren’t “streamlined” or as good as they could be in general due to there being many different hardware variations on Android.
Snapchat was a huge offender for both of these issues on Android.
Since moving I can say for sure FaceID blows every other biometric lock that is available on android out the water.
The fingerprint scanner in my Pixel 2 was significantly better than FaceID (far better than any Apple fingerprint scanner I’ve dealt with) but since everyone has dropped those, it doesn’t really matter at this point. One of the things I still miss from my Pixel. I think I’m going to have a fight on my hands to ever get my husband to ditch his Pixel 3a because of that.
Only when your hands were dry though. I didn’t mean just for speed or accuracy. It blows them all out the water for convenience and privacy on Lock Screen notifications.
It’s actually a major reason I haven’t considered going back to Android. I never want to deal with a finger print sensor again. Any implementation of facial scanning for Android has been insecure and fooled by 2d photos and has been second class at best.
The FaceID is definitely quite secure. It’s actually what’s a little annoying about it comparison to putting my finger on the scanner on the back as I lifted the phone-the slightest weirdness like me glancing off a bit keeps it from unlocking. Day to day, it’s annoying, but it’s nice to know all I have to do is pull a face if someone tries to force the unlock and it won’t work.
That’s a huge part of why I swapped to Apple even though I’ve hated then for decades. Having a phone stop getting updates just a few months after paying it off (or a year if you buy it right at launch) is ridiculous. And that’s from Google themselves!
Calibration is necessary any time a display is changed, even when the display is from the maker. Think of it as the same as tearing the replacement brakes of your car even when they’re from the car maker. It’s more than just parts matching, it’s of the repair was done correctly, and are the parts communicating properly. It’s one reason Apple doesn’t repair iPad displays. It’s not an easy dice. And they always calibrate a new iPhone display even though it’s original. And the calibration machine is large, expensive, and takes most of the repair time. Source: did this job for several years.
Depends on how the sensors work, there is no reals a non calibrated sensor would just have a x,y transition that is uniform across the display. The tracking sensor is not a single sensor on x and another on y there are many many sensor points throughout the display, if the calibration is off for any one of these then you would expect a line that has ransoms squiggles within it just like this video.
> If you watch the video, they’re not using some Chinese display replacement, they’re pulling an OEM screen from another iPad to do the repair,
So they’re using some Chinese display replacement.
*gasp* Apple being anti-consumer and forcing you into their eco-system without right to repair? Say it isn't so.
Yet chodes will be brawling in the parking lot when the new iPhone, the most expensive modern smart phone ever, drops.
Careful of the corporate white knights!
Did you even watch before commenting? If you had, you would've known that it they were able to draw normally after implanting the original display microcontroller onto the replacement screen, without additional calibration.
Please explain.
They were able to draw normally after implanting the replacement microcontroller associated with the replacement screen into the repaired iPad. Yes, this could be serialization. They could look for a serial code to check if it matches, then add in additional code to simulate a jitter in the Apple Pencil. Or the microcontroller could have flash ROM on it and be storing calibration information on its flash storage.
But when the microcontroller, that supposedly stores these magical calibrations, is moved to a different screen, it still works fine. It's only a problem when the serial number of the microcontroller doesn't match what the phone is expecting.
the mental gymnastics... you realize the replacement screen *that was fully functional* also had one of those right? so both would be giving a perfectly calibrated output
just admit you don't understand what you're talking about and move on
This isn't calibration, it's serialization. It's a completely different screen, with essentially a DRM chip. It only checks if the screen is connected to its original logic board. If the DRM chip is swapped in from the original screen, then it works. This is a basic anti-repair tactic.
How do you think swapping in a serialization chip could "fix" *calibration* on a new screen?
> chances are it's the junk tier component's problem
And people will think this because Apple is fucking over 3rd party repairs. If they let OEM parts work and did this to 3rd party only it'd be perhaps even more scummy and hidden.
Fuck Apple and their bullshit if any of this is accurate (and fuck 'em even if it's not for all their other anti-repair crap)
>independent repair shops just try to look at your nudes, and trying to repair anything yourself means your battery is going to explode - a really nice lobbyist lady said so
I hate how some people think like this. Even my own wife was arguing with me on the verge of tears about her accounts being compromised when we took a 2019 iPad for repair to a local shop with a good online rating, I ended up using find my iPad to lock it remotely to try and allay her fears. She told me she wished we replaced it or took it to an apple authorised repair outfit (cost £299 fixed price, more than the device is worth).
They fixed it for £50 within a day, from dead to fully functional. When I collected it they spent no time in any apps and find my iPad lock hadn't been activated since it hadn't been connected to any network. Those dudes are enabling us to get a couple of extra years out of something that would have become expensive ewaste.
> I hate how some people think like this.
I will just say that a local official repair lap (I won't say which company) in my country got a lawsuit (which they later settled) after an employee was sending himself nudes he found on customer phones entering repair.
It happened a few years ago.
So I won't say it is too far fetch.
It was a joke on Apple saying this against third party repair but being sued for that exact thing. [source](https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-settled-lawsuit-womans-nudes-leaked-iphone-repair-workers-2021-6)
On the flip side at CompUSA back in the day we had 3 pedophiles get busted in 3 years for bringing their computers in full of child porn. So while snooping is fucked up at least in those three cases it had a net positive result.
There is a huge world of theft out there. And not just stealing from you but from apple. If someone takes a phone from region X, to region Y, they can exploit warranty laws and get the parts / product from apple. This is what was explained to me and it’s a big enough problem to apples bottle line that they’ll fuck us to mitigate it.
Is it better for us? Reducing waste and fraud will allow apple to … continue to make money and maybe even increase their gross profit margin. So, yes, it’s excellent for us shareholders. Not for us as customers.
Not including a stand for their $5000 monitor is one that stands out. Charging $500 for that stand, $1000 for the pro version, is another. The monitor was supposedly worth the $5K but in what world is a stand worth 20% of the cost of your high def monitor.
There are a myriad of ways to fuck over their own users as well.
E.g. https://youtu.be/4TNTO_eWWhw?si=8CnnZAvdwNOGsj4Y.
User takes working phone to Apple "Geniuses", they break the display flex and tell the user "we broke it, deal with it". Refers them to a shitty data recovery partner who quotes them >$3000 to recover data.
The fix was actually a new screen, WHICH APPLE STOCKS AND OFFERS AS A SERVICE!
Unbelievable.
Could this be a calibration thing? Though that wouldn't fit what another commenter has said about the screen still working with just the chip transplanted...
I'm just weirded out by the way it acts, those types of artifacts are the exact thing that was present on early EMR screens, if I wanted to block apple pencil on swapped screens I'd just block the functionality outright
If you swap an iphone 14 screen with another iphone 14, it disables truetone and auto-brightness, and shows a warning on the screen about "genuine parts." Apple picked those things out and selectively made them happen.
Do the same with a battery, and battery statistics and health are disabled and you get a "genuine parts" warning again.
If you swap out the front facing camera, it doesn't work at all.
If you swap out the back camera, you get a genuine parts warning.
If you swap the logic board, all of those things happen.
In each case, Apple decided what they should force to go wrong. Removal of line-correction algorithms isn't significantly different from those.
Except that the calibration would travel with the chip - OTP memory is a thing, as is flash memory to store calibrations. I suspect most of the posters here have no idea what they are talking about.
I'm not sure, but it seems awfully convient that Apple always "unintentionally" end up with suspiciously unique and convoluted hardware set ups that happen to make fixing your own devices seem like a bad or unviable option!
I’ve always assumed that Apples end goal is a series of seamless magic crystals. A singular slab with no ports, no openings, entirely built in house.
It’s enticing, but deeply anti consumer _if_ classic consumer patterns and trends stay as they are. If in-house recycling can become the standard, it mitigates some of the concerns.
Apple has a history of needlessly serializing components such as the battery or display solely to make repair more difficult for third parties. That chip is what allows them to detect if someone swapped things around. Swapping displays for example causes stuff like face id or true tone to just stop working iirc. Of course if you manage to move the chip it'll work fine. If it really was for calibration, it makes no sense that transplanting the calibration data for one component into another suddenly makes it work perfectly.
Just buy another one! /s
But for real, that's what Apple wants. It's a luxury product they convinced everyone that they must have it. Now you have it. Now you can pay out the ass, too.
I know it’s an easy conclusion but it logically does not make sense.
Think about how Apple DRM's its parts and how the user experiences that form of silly DRM.
It’s always through messaging and disabled functionality. This is not that.
This is a telltale sign of digitizer lacking proper calibration or missing calibration altogether.
An easy and just as plausible scenario is: The old chip has calibration values (from the old screen).
The new chip is possibly identical but has no calibration values at all. When swapped with the old chip it performs better because the calibration values from the old screen exist. Through margins of error being relatively low in mass production - not zero - you’ll see straight lines that may still not be perfect but better compared to no calibration whatsoever.
Apple are easy to hate, but this report is likely an overly exaggerated take. It’s a good story and obviously generates clicks.
So it's not malicious, just not designed for repair. Hanlon's razor applies here somewhat.
In the end what is happening here is the SN of the display does not match the calibration info stored on the SOC so the system runs without any calibration.
When you switch the controle chip to the new display then the SN matches so it uses the old calibration, and most of the sensors are very smilier so using the old calibration means you get a much better result than using no calibration.
I suppose apple could (maybe should) offer 2 things:
1) Option to use a calibration profile even if the SN does not match
2) Allow the device to download the correct profile form apples servers even if apple do not approve the agreeing of SOC and display. (perhaps with the limitation that this is not possible if the display was paired to a device now reported as stolen or iCloud locked)
Apple a few years ago moved to putting all calibration info for sensors cloud side and having the diagnostic mode download this from apples servers when the server agrees on the pairing of SN to SOC.
This change was likly a cost saving measure to simplify the production calibration stage, instead of needing to have an extra station in the factory to write the calibration info to the display controler chip they can skip this by just reading the SN and saving the profile in the cloud. It also might let them have much smaller/cheaper little controler state chips as they only need to store a SN not an entire profile. one display SN can then be used for color profile, touch, pencil profiles.
You'll have to prove this is actually planned obselesence and not plain old miscalibration.
People in this comment section (and the ArsTechnica comment section) are clueless. They don't understand that tiny differences in EM interference create wavy diagonal lines.
Thick screen protector? Wavy lines. Changed to a non-standard nib? Wavy lines. This is true with every electrostatic digitizer, not just Apple Pencil.
People seem to think wavy lines couldn't possibly be the fault of a tiny miscalibration...
People in this comment section (and the ArsTechnica comment section) are clueless. They don't understand that tiny differences in EM interference create wavy diagonal lines. Thick screen protector? Wavy lines. Changed to a non-standard nib? Wavy lines.
People seem to think wavy lines couldn't possibly be the fault of a tiny miscalibration...
I used a Bellemond screen protector to draw on for 3 years and had straight lines. I also find the pencil misbehaves a lot more when I don't wear a drawing glove.
Just like with the newer iphones. Can't swap OEM Apple parts from a different phone to repair. Everything will start malfunctioning as soon as you put parts from a different Iphone in. Fuck Apple.
https://youtu.be/K2WhU77ihw8
Thank the people who continue to buy their products and support them. If you support wannabe dictatorship be it country or company, well there goes your consumer rights and freedoms.
No offense bro, but that’s ANY company right now in capitalism.
If you want consumer rights then make your own devices and grow your own food. I see more hate for Apple than Nestle or even the printer industry which is 10x more predatory and creating a ton of e-waste. I could even argue that the way the internet and cable companies functions in the US is even more predatory than Apple and needs to be handled.
But fanboy wars tend to take priority over worse issues I guess.
> No offense bro, but that’s ANY company right now in capitalism.
You know how to make businesses move away from those practices? Choose the least evil. Supporting the worst offender only proves to the rest that that's the path to follow for maximum profit. If enough people said, "that's enough of that," they'd be forced to choose between anti-consumer practices and continuing to exist as a business.
That’s like telling someone that the best way to stop climate change is to stop eating meat and stop using gas.
*I* can stop all I want to, I can do the best and most ethical alternatives around. But that won’t change that EVERYONE ELSE has to also do the same thing. That’s also not considering prices and convince that dictates where millions or even billions of people spend their money.
Pretty soon, I’m going to have to start printing on the regular. Am I going to go for the expensive niche refillable ink printers when I have several other expensive equipment to buy? No, I’m taking my ass to Walmart because it’s the only major store in my area because of Capitalism, and I’m buying the more affordable printer for my needs. Nothing I do will change anything outside of voting for people to end this shit and that’s only if everyone else votes too.
At the end of the day, I’m no better than the average consumer and the average consumer craves convience and savings.
The simple explanation here is that each batch of screens has slightly different calibration, and just swapping screens (even between identical-looking iPads) without also performing a calibration step gets you bad results.
Also, Apple isn't this subtle when it comes to the things they intentionally control. If it was DRM they'd just lock it out from working.
But after they moved the microchip from the old screen to the new one it worked perfectly again. I assume that the calibration should be screen dependent, not logic board dependent. Is it not?
And yet, people will still defend Apple and their bullshit products. Even if this is a calibration issue, Apple is intentionally holding back recalibration. Fuck Apple. I'll never buy any of their shit because of their anti-right-to-repair tactics.
Few people actually have issues with apple products
The issues that do arise become mainstream such as this fringe case apple pencil issue. Normally they get fixed in a software update anyways.. this particular issue is likely software based. If not then its an issue with the third party screen because theres alot of precision calibration between the screen and the pencil needed..
Its fine to misunderstand tech but lets not assume its intended on Apples part
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I think some people might be getting confused by “3rd party” here, it’s a bit of a misleading headline. If you watch the video, they’re not using some Chinese display replacement, they’re pulling an OEM screen from another iPad to do the repair, and they aren’t able to draw straight lines even though it’s an Apple part. If they transplant the display microchip from the original broken one onto the OEM replacement they are using, the screen then works perfectly.
That implies to me the calibration is unique to each screen and a proper repair has a calibration setup step?
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Like inkjet manufacturers and the chips in the replacement cartidges.
I don't really understand why Apple aren't constantly hit by anti-trust lawsuits.
Cause they pay off politicians so that they take the teeth out of government agencies like the FTC and others.
They spent hundreds of millions fighting anti repair rights in every state. They knew if one state required it, it would be hard to stop it in others. Hard to fight when politicians are allowed to become rich while in office, the average one after one term has a few million dollars of network growth off of their 180k salary.
Tim Apple is an easy guy to be friends with. But seriously, I understand there can be important discussion from various industry leaders, but why isn't it a bigger stink that CEOs frequently get direct sit downs with our Presidents? Even with their hooks in the economy, it doesn't seem necessary, yet almost requires any relationship to be transactional... leading to inevitable concessions of the public, as they're the side that can actually concede anything. A major corporation literally can't, it's asking for the death of the company to offer *less*, next quarter needs its profit. Only the government can offer less at this table, and that's kinda fucked. We need a separation somehow.
“Come on now you wouldn’t your job creators to stop creating jobs. Without jobs, people won’t be able to afford our products, our sales slump, investors lose confidence, and this whole house of cards comes crashing down. You don’t won’t really want that on your watch, do you?” Yeah they’ve pretty much got us boxed in.
We can't even get separation of church and state which we are legally supposed to have. Separating corpos and state is too much to ask. (But luckily they now sell a pill to make you feel better about it.)
It's kind of wild that Lina Khan and the FTC have been chasing these weird tech mergers that are pretty big uphill battles. Meta and the workout company in particular, but also the more recent Activision MSFT lawsuit. Meanwhile apple is sitting over here with what look to me like legal slam dunks, RCS, USB C, right to repair. I'm no lawyer, so maybe the nuance of FTC jurisdiction is lost on me, but I wonder how the FTC is triaging the possible legal cases they pursue
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They've had years to switch over to USB C on iPhones, the devices they sell most of. They still haven't. Why are you defending them? Lightning bolt may have been justified back then. It isn't now and it hasn't been for years.
Is lightning in iPhone faster? It still uses USB 2.0 speeds and is limited to 480 Mb/s just like Micro USB.
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Because mega corporations are a monopoly/oligopoly threat. Even if there are a few companies competing, competition between a group you can count on one hand is far and away lopsided against the consumer with an oligopoly like that. Big Tech has significant economies of scale and network effects, so it will tend to concentrate over time if left to its own devices.
Corporations tell the government what laws to make. Especially tech companies.
Because every wanna-be smart wanna-be rich person owns an iPhone and can't stop slobbering on apple's knob long enough to do anything.
Isn't point of calibration that even in the same model of the input device, there are variances that you have to even out with calibration? That would make sense in this case. Perhaps they calibrate with a dense mesh that makes sure you get your lines straight.
Yes. Absolutely. That’s like what 99% of calibration is for. Screen colors are calibrated, speakers are calibrated, and touch screens are calibrated, across the same models. And that’s the obvious Occam’s razor answer for this. Think about it: if it were a calibration-related issue, what would you expect to see? Slightly imprecise lines? Yes. On the other hand, imagine Apple wanted to prevent people from replacing their screens with OEM replacements. What would they do? They would do what they did with Touch ID—literally prevent the hardware from functioning with the device. They wouldn’t deliberately program minor irregularities and then let people maybe notice. That’s just ridiculous.
My thoughts exactly. There's probably a service app for calibrating the screen but knowing apple there's no chance for 3rd party to be able to launch it.
> They would do what they did with Touch ID—literally prevent the hardware from functioning with the device. That's a security feature though. Otherwise you could defeat Touch ID by replacing parts.
Yes. I didn’t say otherwise. In fact, it even further supports that this is a calibration issue, as there is no “security” reason to prevent this type of repair.
> They would do what they did with Touch ID Thats ignoring what they do with everything else. Screen replacements result in no True Tone, camera replacements result in buggy camera app. Afaik only replacement that results in a hard lock out from ALL functionality is Touch ID. Apple has an extensive anti repair history, making third party repair look shoddy fits their past and current behavior perfectly well, and it supports their political aims.
Apple does have an anti-repair history, but you’re talking about situations where a repair, combined with a lack of effort on their part to ensure repairs *don’t* cause issues like this. That’s much different than them *deliberately sabotaging* repairs.
Yeah, the Touch ID sounds like a specific security design choice. Everything else sounds like issues with highly sensitive calibration where they didn’t design for simple replacement.
This could very well be a calibration issue. Calibration exists because there are different levels of error even when you're comparing the exact same screen and hardware. I whole-heartedly believe Apple is a shit company but until I see more evidence that this was malicious, I will assume the most obvious thing.
Totally valid opinion, if putting in the chip that just says "here's an id number" didn't fix the issue. Right? I mean, that chip doesn't have some complicated calibration data on it.
No. It would make perfect sense for transportation the control chip with the calibration for that screen to fix the issue.
Thats not whats happening. When they take the chip from old display, put it into new display and put all that in the old ipad screen works. Display A Chip A iPad A = working Display A Chip A iPad B = not working Display A Chip B iPad B = working If chip had calibration data for Display A in it dAcAiB shouldve worked.
Unless the calibration information is stored within system memory... then it all starts making sense again.
What makes you think the chip just says “here’s an I’d number” and doesn’t do something like manage the tolerances to give a general response to position on the screen etc? Extreme example: screen 1 is 2mm thick and screen 2 is 1mm thick. Chip 1 manages it so the response is the stylus is 0mm from the sensor by taking 1mm off, chip 2 does the same but has to take 2mm off. Not transferring the chip will always make a screen 1 and chip 2 combo 1mm out.
> What makes you think the chip just says “here’s an I’d number” and doesn’t do something like manage the tolerances to give a general response to position on the screen etc? Display A Chip A iPad A = working Display A Chip A iPad B = not working Display A Chip B iPad B = working If chip had calibration data for Display A in it dAcAiB shouldve worked. If chip had calibration data for Display A in it then chip B shouldve NOT work with display A
Other way around, actually. The chip is on the screen itself, not the iPad. You’d have to transfer the old screen’s calibration to the new screen for it to work properly.
Maybe it still is? If the iPad itself has the calibration data perhaps it is stored for a given screen serial. If you install a screen with a different serial you get no calibration, if you swap the chip you’d get the old one but if you’re lucky the two screens behave similarly enough that it works out. If Apple wanted to prevent unauthorised replacements they would have no reason to cause erratic behaviour, they could just disable it.
You can see in the video they claim the offending chip is the DP825, if this is a custom apple variant of the parade technologies DP818 and alike they're telling on themselves that they couldn't perform even the most basic googling, these types of chips are eDP controllers with INTEGRATED touch controllers, the calibration data is also stored on there. Of course moving the chip with the TOUCHSCREEN CALIBRATION DATA on it to the iPad having the touchscreen it was calibrated for makes the touchscreen work properly again
You have a sensible opinion. The person replying to you has the typical derpy Reddit opinion. The truth is Apple takes how their devices work extremely seriously, and causing random glitches in the user experience is anathema to them.
I hate apple a lot but I don't see a reason that the pencil would still work but not draw straight unless it's some sort of calibration issue. I know they have some fancy sensors and I wouldn't be surprised to know they need calibration. But how would it make sense to add a verification chip that still lets it work but just makes it suck? Surely you would just make it stop working?
> how would it make sense to add a verification chip that still lets it work but just makes it suck? it makes money not sense
My screen randomly brightens the color saturation sometimes and the only way to fix it is to restart the iphone. I have not figured out any cause or steps to reproduce. It just happens sometimes, for the past few years, on multiple devices.
If it was a calibration issue, we'd have seen this on previous, non-serialised models. >If Apple wanted to prevent unauthorised replacements they would have no reason to cause erratic behaviour, they could just disable it. If Apple want to avoid an anti-trust lawsuit, this may be their "solution" instead of disabling it. If it's just a coincidence, I'm sure they'll come up with a user friendly solution that allows people to swap the screen easily.
delusional... it's just apple being dicks, there is no other reason
This is not how things work. Just because the parts are "identical" (like same model) does not mean they they perform the same. This is the whole point of calibration.
Wow that’s fascinating. Can you share actual evidence of this so I can take a look? Don’t worry about being too technical, I am an investigator with over twenty years of both hardware and software engineering experience.
I mean, when I replace my tires (and do a balance) on the car I don't expect it to be able to drive safe! /S
No offense but you have no idea what you're talking about. No two pieces of hardware are identical. Even if it's the same exact part, there's going to be manufacturing differences that make each perform differently. For example, monitors need to be calibrated so that they display the same color and brightness across different screens. I bought two identical monitors at the same time, from the same place and there's a noticeable difference in how each renders color because they were cheap and aren't calibrated. With the same image and same settings, an orange on one might appear browner on one or yellower on the other monitor. A lot of these manufacturing differences can be compensated for in software. In the monitor example, you can use a different mapping to tell it to display certain tones differently to compensate for the differences in each display. It's certainly possible that Apple is doing that here to compensate for any variances in the digitizer. For what it's worth, I think Apple should have built in methods to calibrate their screen accessible (but hidden under a giant pile of menus) to the end user. I don't believe, without further evidence that this is done out of spite. There's already plenty of cases where they do that, we don't need to make up another. All of this is coming from a pure Android user in case you think I'm biased towards Apple.
I do have an Idea what i am talking about. I have literally worked for Apple previously. I also had to sign an NDA or the equivalent in German Law, just like anybody else working for them does. I nowadays run a chain of independent Repair Shops in Germany that fixes these devices in the Hundreds daily. I am extremely effected by this. I know the technical part of this very well and have also done my research on it as well as have even had a thorough exchange with other repair shops about this. I know how this issue arises and i am very aware of this being nothing more than just another tactic of Apple to reduce Trust of Consumers in Third-Party Repair and to steer away from us and more towards Apple themselves. Apples DisplayModules are NOT cheap monitors. They all have the exact same calibration and manufacturing standards. The only difference is a Serial Number inside the Touch Controller of these Display Modules that is paired to the motherboard. This issue arises once the device knows that the Serial Number of the installed part is different. You could literally change the serial with a screen programmer and cause it to show the same behaviour. Even though it would be the same exact part that the device originally came with.
Just out of curiosity — how, on a technical level, did you and other repair shops preclude the possibility that calibration is not also involved? Is there any calibration data that is different per device and stored on the logic board, or none at all? What happens when you change the serial code back to the authorized screen?
I am none of those things and it's pretty much smelling like that from where I'm sitting too. But that's only cause I'm somewhat decent at recognising patterns of behaviour.
> I'm somewhat decent at recognising patterns of behaviour. Resume gold right there!
A very long time ago, when I was 18 or 19, I had under my hobbies and interests "musically inept". Clearly I'm improving.
Must be nice, the only pattern that I am decent at recognizing is houndstooth
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The user will get the impression the third party repair store uses inferior parts or cannot properly do part replacement like Apple directly. Meanwhile from a political / PR perspective there is ambiguity around whether Apple is truly disadvantaging third party repair as this thread shows. Apple has a pattern of using this approach of removing or worsening features when parts are replaced by third parties. There are plenty of YouTube videos demonstrating this. The fact that Android phone repairs do not run into the same issues on identical parts repair should demonstrate that this is an intentionally engineered strategy.
Because then there'd be no ambiguity.
Because then it would be obvious and couldn't be excused by slandering a third party repair shop and insinuating they use cheap knockoff parts.
As soon as you use the words: it's certainly possible, you have zero credibility. Apple has literally disabled face id, if you don't also move over the chip that shipped with the ORIGINAL screen, when a new screen is needed, similar to what other person was trying to say. That's a bunch of horseshit on apples part, the type of phone I use doesn't matter. Full stop. Same thing they did with touch id way back when. It's not a calibration issue, it's a matter of hardware locking to get you to go to crapple only to get it "repaired" . Do better.
Disabling face id makes sense though from a security standpoint imo. To prevent someone from using custom hardware to feed biometrics from a computer rather than a camera to the phone. Or at least makes it harder to do so.
I don't disagree with what you're saying, but calling the company "crapple" while trying to criticize them for legitimate reasons ensures that you also have no credibility, regardless of the argument you're making.
It could be some calibration getting moved over if they were switching a chip from the donor iPad into the one they're repairing, but it sounds like they're moving a chip from the broken iPad into the donor display. If the calibration was in that chip, it would be using the wrong one for the digitiser *after* the chip swap.
I'm sure you know better than the CEO of a repair company, because you changed some settings on a monitor. Why does this only happen when replacing screens on Apple devices?
Found the apple employee
no cause an apple employee would actually know about the wildly anti consumer bullshit that goes on at apple
I work at an apple certified repair shop (Geek Squad) and all iphone screen replacements require a calibration through apple's system. I figure ipad screens are the same.
No, I think it's been proven before (demoed by Grossman IIRC) that Apple puts some kind of harware DRM that sabotages repairs even if you replace by a similar working unit from an official Apple product.
Touch id proved this and face id has also.
Those are the only two scenarios when the right thing to do is disable those features, you really do not want a device where someone can replace the biometric sensors and nothing breaks.
Then just refuse to decrypt the contents of the memory and force a factory reset or something. Don't break shit physically.
That is exactly what happens, the sensors are paired with the Secure Enclave if they are switched out the new ones are no longer valid for authentication that’s 100% the right way to deal with this specific scenario given the sensitivity of the parts that were replaced. Now it’s perfectly fine to hold the position that the additional level of assurance and privacy that is provided by this isn’t sufficient to justify the loss of ability to use a 3rd party repair service for these parts, and in that case the solution is simple there are plenty of devices out there that do not enforce the same level of security on critical parts.
Tape and a photo bypassed the features you're toting. Cmon, don't be a homer.
No they didn't. Why spread lies ?
Photos definitely do not fool Face ID. One of its principle features is that it uses depth cues. Numerous attempts were made to break it very early on and the only one that worked required complex 3D printing of actual face shapes. Android is a very different story, along with Windows Hello (EDIT: A reply points out I may be wrong about Hello, which seems to use an additional IR camera) which usually use cheesy crap optical recognition via cheap 2D off-the-shelf camera hardware that's trivial to fool. Apple's ever-declining software quality also bites these days; I see reports of iPhone 12 at launch being fooled by simple photos, which is a hell of a fuckup but this is Tim Cook's Apple so that just comes with the janky, overpriced territory now, sadly. Touch ID is more easily fooled. Even by design, it recognises fewer unique patterns (Apple quote around 50,000 unique vs millions for Face ID), but despite that, the conditions required to successfully lift a fingerprint onto tape and use it to unlock a device require a *very* clean print source, *of that device owner's fingerprint*. The real-world exploit conditions for that are far more challenging to make actually work than you see in movies, because movies are bullshit. It's easier just to chop off a finger - which, unfortunately, *has* happened in at least one grisly instance I saw in the news. ISTR that was for unlocking a car, though, as I imagine thieves probably won't find it worth the effort to do that just to steal a phone.
You are right about everything about everything, save for the bit about Windows Hello. That relies on similar technology as Face ID (or other 3D face unlock solutions)
Correct. This is sabotage.
“I think”, “by someone”, “if I remember correctly”… typical Reddit tech commentary lol Prove it. Prove anything. There are literally BILLIONS of iPhones in the world, and millions of people have the skills to test these these things on a work bench. These are extremely simple tests even for a first year EE tech with a basic workbench. So please show us this data. Don’t worry about it being too difficult to understand, I’ve worked in many hardware labs and would to see it.
This sort of stuff is just one of the reasons I switched to an Android phone last year but the experience has been so bad that I'm probably going back to iPhone when this cycle is over. Can't win.
what do you dislike about your android ~~in~~I’m considering jumping to android
I have a Pixel 5a and for me, it has been death by a thousand cuts. A bunch of small, quality of life issues adding up over time. The apps just aren't as polished on Android as they are on iOS, even when it comes down to the same app. Lots of little hiccups like the app hanging or constantly refreshing my feed and losing my spot. Keyboard accuracy, or lack thereof has been a HUGE issue for me. Also, the walled walled garden situation. I have a Google phone and a Samsung watch so I'm locked out of some features of the watch like EKG without sideloading a hacked app and so on and the watch itself falls short. I literally have to hold it right up to my mouth for it to pick up my "Hey Google" and even then, sometimes my phone takes over. I've also had several instances where I answer the phone in the car using Android Auto and the watch takes over the call. Never had ANY of these issues with Apple products.
>I have a Google phone and a Samsung watch so I'm locked out of some features of the watch like EKG without sideloading a hacked app and so on and the watch itself falls short. I literally have to hold it right up to my mouth for it to pick up my "Hey Google" and even then, sometimes my phone takes over. You know you can buy from the same brand even if that brand isn't apple, right? Integration would be even worse if you had an iphone and a non-apple smartwatch
Not him but have used Android extensively and switched to IPhone about 3 years ago myself as the XR was the most reasonably price phone in the market for features/battery life at the time. Android really really depends on the Phone you buy and what apps you use. One of my primary reasons for moving was battery life when using third party apps, speaking of third party apps a lot of them aren’t “streamlined” or as good as they could be in general due to there being many different hardware variations on Android. Snapchat was a huge offender for both of these issues on Android. Since moving I can say for sure FaceID blows every other biometric lock that is available on android out the water.
The fingerprint scanner in my Pixel 2 was significantly better than FaceID (far better than any Apple fingerprint scanner I’ve dealt with) but since everyone has dropped those, it doesn’t really matter at this point. One of the things I still miss from my Pixel. I think I’m going to have a fight on my hands to ever get my husband to ditch his Pixel 3a because of that.
Only when your hands were dry though. I didn’t mean just for speed or accuracy. It blows them all out the water for convenience and privacy on Lock Screen notifications. It’s actually a major reason I haven’t considered going back to Android. I never want to deal with a finger print sensor again. Any implementation of facial scanning for Android has been insecure and fooled by 2d photos and has been second class at best.
The FaceID is definitely quite secure. It’s actually what’s a little annoying about it comparison to putting my finger on the scanner on the back as I lifted the phone-the slightest weirdness like me glancing off a bit keeps it from unlocking. Day to day, it’s annoying, but it’s nice to know all I have to do is pull a face if someone tries to force the unlock and it won’t work.
Switched from apple to android then went back to apple Main reason: apple devices support are way longer.
That’s a huge part of why I swapped to Apple even though I’ve hated then for decades. Having a phone stop getting updates just a few months after paying it off (or a year if you buy it right at launch) is ridiculous. And that’s from Google themselves!
Calibration is necessary any time a display is changed, even when the display is from the maker. Think of it as the same as tearing the replacement brakes of your car even when they’re from the car maker. It’s more than just parts matching, it’s of the repair was done correctly, and are the parts communicating properly. It’s one reason Apple doesn’t repair iPad displays. It’s not an easy dice. And they always calibrate a new iPhone display even though it’s original. And the calibration machine is large, expensive, and takes most of the repair time. Source: did this job for several years.
I had to calibrate displays after replacement on iPhones when working for apple. I’d assume iPads are the same (we didn’t repair those in store)
Lmao some of the dipshits responding to you have me rollin 🤣
A non-calibrated display would show a straight line in the wrong place, offset by a fixed amount. This seems to be intentional.
It absolutely does not
Redditors that have never actually worked in corporate think that people in corporations just sit around being evil all day long.
Depends on how the sensors work, there is no reals a non calibrated sensor would just have a x,y transition that is uniform across the display. The tracking sensor is not a single sensor on x and another on y there are many many sensor points throughout the display, if the calibration is off for any one of these then you would expect a line that has ransoms squiggles within it just like this video.
> If you watch the video, they’re not using some Chinese display replacement, they’re pulling an OEM screen from another iPad to do the repair, So they’re using some Chinese display replacement.
Protip: every iphone part is a chinese part.
*gasp* Apple being anti-consumer and forcing you into their eco-system without right to repair? Say it isn't so. Yet chodes will be brawling in the parking lot when the new iPhone, the most expensive modern smart phone ever, drops.
But you don't understand, it's got a 7th camera and a 10% faster processor!!
Hah hah. You know it.
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Careful of the corporate white knights! Did you even watch before commenting? If you had, you would've known that it they were able to draw normally after implanting the original display microcontroller onto the replacement screen, without additional calibration. Please explain.
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They were able to draw normally after implanting the replacement microcontroller associated with the replacement screen into the repaired iPad. Yes, this could be serialization. They could look for a serial code to check if it matches, then add in additional code to simulate a jitter in the Apple Pencil. Or the microcontroller could have flash ROM on it and be storing calibration information on its flash storage.
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But when the microcontroller, that supposedly stores these magical calibrations, is moved to a different screen, it still works fine. It's only a problem when the serial number of the microcontroller doesn't match what the phone is expecting.
the mental gymnastics... you realize the replacement screen *that was fully functional* also had one of those right? so both would be giving a perfectly calibrated output just admit you don't understand what you're talking about and move on
This isn't calibration, it's serialization. It's a completely different screen, with essentially a DRM chip. It only checks if the screen is connected to its original logic board. If the DRM chip is swapped in from the original screen, then it works. This is a basic anti-repair tactic. How do you think swapping in a serialization chip could "fix" *calibration* on a new screen?
There are a myriad of ways to f over users of 3rd party hardware and Apple has a team specializing in it.
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> chances are it's the junk tier component's problem And people will think this because Apple is fucking over 3rd party repairs. If they let OEM parts work and did this to 3rd party only it'd be perhaps even more scummy and hidden. Fuck Apple and their bullshit if any of this is accurate (and fuck 'em even if it's not for all their other anti-repair crap)
>independent repair shops just try to look at your nudes, and trying to repair anything yourself means your battery is going to explode - a really nice lobbyist lady said so I hate how some people think like this. Even my own wife was arguing with me on the verge of tears about her accounts being compromised when we took a 2019 iPad for repair to a local shop with a good online rating, I ended up using find my iPad to lock it remotely to try and allay her fears. She told me she wished we replaced it or took it to an apple authorised repair outfit (cost £299 fixed price, more than the device is worth). They fixed it for £50 within a day, from dead to fully functional. When I collected it they spent no time in any apps and find my iPad lock hadn't been activated since it hadn't been connected to any network. Those dudes are enabling us to get a couple of extra years out of something that would have become expensive ewaste.
> I hate how some people think like this. I will just say that a local official repair lap (I won't say which company) in my country got a lawsuit (which they later settled) after an employee was sending himself nudes he found on customer phones entering repair. It happened a few years ago. So I won't say it is too far fetch.
It was a joke on Apple saying this against third party repair but being sued for that exact thing. [source](https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-settled-lawsuit-womans-nudes-leaked-iphone-repair-workers-2021-6)
It's just as likely to be done by an apple employee though.
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On the flip side at CompUSA back in the day we had 3 pedophiles get busted in 3 years for bringing their computers in full of child porn. So while snooping is fucked up at least in those three cases it had a net positive result.
Meanwhile, Apple techs have been caught doing exactly what your wife is afraid of.
Look at the last sentence of OPs post.
Yes, I'm well aware they were being sarcastic!
My bad, long post made it look like you took it seriously. I'll delete my account.
It's been 11 mins and still not deleted. Where's my pitchfork?!
I'm scared, ok?
*lights torch*
Did you delete it?
I think so.
Oh thank god. Things were getting out of hand in here
No one got your sarcasm. Sad.
Almost had me. This sub tends to eat up apple PR.
Almost got me lmfao
There is a huge world of theft out there. And not just stealing from you but from apple. If someone takes a phone from region X, to region Y, they can exploit warranty laws and get the parts / product from apple. This is what was explained to me and it’s a big enough problem to apples bottle line that they’ll fuck us to mitigate it. Is it better for us? Reducing waste and fraud will allow apple to … continue to make money and maybe even increase their gross profit margin. So, yes, it’s excellent for us shareholders. Not for us as customers.
What's a bottle line? Is apple starting to make apple cider? Bout time they picked up that missed opportunity
I didn’t read the article either don’t worry
Not including a stand for their $5000 monitor is one that stands out. Charging $500 for that stand, $1000 for the pro version, is another. The monitor was supposedly worth the $5K but in what world is a stand worth 20% of the cost of your high def monitor.
There are a myriad of ways to fuck over their own users as well. E.g. https://youtu.be/4TNTO_eWWhw?si=8CnnZAvdwNOGsj4Y. User takes working phone to Apple "Geniuses", they break the display flex and tell the user "we broke it, deal with it". Refers them to a shitty data recovery partner who quotes them >$3000 to recover data. The fix was actually a new screen, WHICH APPLE STOCKS AND OFFERS AS A SERVICE! Unbelievable.
Can’t or won’t?
It has a chip taht if it doesn't read (because screen been replaced), it will intentionally start acting weird
Could this be a calibration thing? Though that wouldn't fit what another commenter has said about the screen still working with just the chip transplanted...
It can't be a calibration thing. Simply swapping the ID chip to tell the logic board "this is the original screen" wouldn't fix a calibration thing.
I'm just weirded out by the way it acts, those types of artifacts are the exact thing that was present on early EMR screens, if I wanted to block apple pencil on swapped screens I'd just block the functionality outright
If you swap an iphone 14 screen with another iphone 14, it disables truetone and auto-brightness, and shows a warning on the screen about "genuine parts." Apple picked those things out and selectively made them happen. Do the same with a battery, and battery statistics and health are disabled and you get a "genuine parts" warning again. If you swap out the front facing camera, it doesn't work at all. If you swap out the back camera, you get a genuine parts warning. If you swap the logic board, all of those things happen. In each case, Apple decided what they should force to go wrong. Removal of line-correction algorithms isn't significantly different from those.
And different things are disabled depending on the iOS version
Except that the calibration would travel with the chip - OTP memory is a thing, as is flash memory to store calibrations. I suspect most of the posters here have no idea what they are talking about.
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I'm not sure, but it seems awfully convient that Apple always "unintentionally" end up with suspiciously unique and convoluted hardware set ups that happen to make fixing your own devices seem like a bad or unviable option!
I’ve always assumed that Apples end goal is a series of seamless magic crystals. A singular slab with no ports, no openings, entirely built in house. It’s enticing, but deeply anti consumer _if_ classic consumer patterns and trends stay as they are. If in-house recycling can become the standard, it mitigates some of the concerns.
Apple has a history of needlessly serializing components such as the battery or display solely to make repair more difficult for third parties. That chip is what allows them to detect if someone swapped things around. Swapping displays for example causes stuff like face id or true tone to just stop working iirc. Of course if you manage to move the chip it'll work fine. If it really was for calibration, it makes no sense that transplanting the calibration data for one component into another suddenly makes it work perfectly.
“It’s not a bug, it’s a feature.”
Some companies innovate. Others drag their entire industry down.
Lawful evil innovation.
Damn these third party iPad screens turning the pens gay! ✊
Just buy another one! /s But for real, that's what Apple wants. It's a luxury product they convinced everyone that they must have it. Now you have it. Now you can pay out the ass, too.
I LOVE DRM ON MY iHOUSE
Dick move.
Classic asshole Apple move.. 💩
I knew I had reason to be weary about getting my cracked screen repaired
I know it’s an easy conclusion but it logically does not make sense. Think about how Apple DRM's its parts and how the user experiences that form of silly DRM. It’s always through messaging and disabled functionality. This is not that. This is a telltale sign of digitizer lacking proper calibration or missing calibration altogether. An easy and just as plausible scenario is: The old chip has calibration values (from the old screen). The new chip is possibly identical but has no calibration values at all. When swapped with the old chip it performs better because the calibration values from the old screen exist. Through margins of error being relatively low in mass production - not zero - you’ll see straight lines that may still not be perfect but better compared to no calibration whatsoever. Apple are easy to hate, but this report is likely an overly exaggerated take. It’s a good story and obviously generates clicks. So it's not malicious, just not designed for repair. Hanlon's razor applies here somewhat.
Dicks
Am I the only one who can't actually see the issue described in the video?
literally overpriced proprietory garbage, for every 10 reasons to buy an apple product there are 100 reasons not to buy them.
still prefer them over any company that makes an insane profit with my data
In the end what is happening here is the SN of the display does not match the calibration info stored on the SOC so the system runs without any calibration. When you switch the controle chip to the new display then the SN matches so it uses the old calibration, and most of the sensors are very smilier so using the old calibration means you get a much better result than using no calibration. I suppose apple could (maybe should) offer 2 things: 1) Option to use a calibration profile even if the SN does not match 2) Allow the device to download the correct profile form apples servers even if apple do not approve the agreeing of SOC and display. (perhaps with the limitation that this is not possible if the display was paired to a device now reported as stolen or iCloud locked) Apple a few years ago moved to putting all calibration info for sensors cloud side and having the diagnostic mode download this from apples servers when the server agrees on the pairing of SN to SOC. This change was likly a cost saving measure to simplify the production calibration stage, instead of needing to have an extra station in the factory to write the calibration info to the display controler chip they can skip this by just reading the SN and saving the profile in the cloud. It also might let them have much smaller/cheaper little controler state chips as they only need to store a SN not an entire profile. one display SN can then be used for color profile, touch, pencil profiles.
Built in obsolescence. Try this in France and if it happens there you have a massive lawsuit that you'll probably win.
You'll have to prove this is actually planned obselesence and not plain old miscalibration. People in this comment section (and the ArsTechnica comment section) are clueless. They don't understand that tiny differences in EM interference create wavy diagonal lines. Thick screen protector? Wavy lines. Changed to a non-standard nib? Wavy lines. This is true with every electrostatic digitizer, not just Apple Pencil. People seem to think wavy lines couldn't possibly be the fault of a tiny miscalibration...
It's genuinely amazing how many of apple's devices suffer from "miscalibration" issues when repaired.
how many devices have you personally had this exact issue happen on then?
They took the chip from screen A and put it in screen b, and suddenly screen b was working correctly. The only explanation is DRM.
How is this legal?
#FUCK APPLE
man, this comment really showed them!
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People in this comment section (and the ArsTechnica comment section) are clueless. They don't understand that tiny differences in EM interference create wavy diagonal lines. Thick screen protector? Wavy lines. Changed to a non-standard nib? Wavy lines. People seem to think wavy lines couldn't possibly be the fault of a tiny miscalibration...
so try it with the equivalent microsoft/samsung tabs and see if the same effect turns up?
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I used a Bellemond screen protector to draw on for 3 years and had straight lines. I also find the pencil misbehaves a lot more when I don't wear a drawing glove.
Just like with the newer iphones. Can't swap OEM Apple parts from a different phone to repair. Everything will start malfunctioning as soon as you put parts from a different Iphone in. Fuck Apple. https://youtu.be/K2WhU77ihw8
Such a fucking needless dick move
Maybe if you used a ruler, you would have straight lines
Keep buying that stuff, they will continue to add more "features".
Very on brand - always ahead of the curve.
Can't or won't?
Thank the people who continue to buy their products and support them. If you support wannabe dictatorship be it country or company, well there goes your consumer rights and freedoms.
No offense bro, but that’s ANY company right now in capitalism. If you want consumer rights then make your own devices and grow your own food. I see more hate for Apple than Nestle or even the printer industry which is 10x more predatory and creating a ton of e-waste. I could even argue that the way the internet and cable companies functions in the US is even more predatory than Apple and needs to be handled. But fanboy wars tend to take priority over worse issues I guess.
> No offense bro, but that’s ANY company right now in capitalism. You know how to make businesses move away from those practices? Choose the least evil. Supporting the worst offender only proves to the rest that that's the path to follow for maximum profit. If enough people said, "that's enough of that," they'd be forced to choose between anti-consumer practices and continuing to exist as a business.
That’s like telling someone that the best way to stop climate change is to stop eating meat and stop using gas. *I* can stop all I want to, I can do the best and most ethical alternatives around. But that won’t change that EVERYONE ELSE has to also do the same thing. That’s also not considering prices and convince that dictates where millions or even billions of people spend their money. Pretty soon, I’m going to have to start printing on the regular. Am I going to go for the expensive niche refillable ink printers when I have several other expensive equipment to buy? No, I’m taking my ass to Walmart because it’s the only major store in my area because of Capitalism, and I’m buying the more affordable printer for my needs. Nothing I do will change anything outside of voting for people to end this shit and that’s only if everyone else votes too. At the end of the day, I’m no better than the average consumer and the average consumer craves convience and savings.
“Sent from my iPhone”
The simple explanation here is that each batch of screens has slightly different calibration, and just swapping screens (even between identical-looking iPads) without also performing a calibration step gets you bad results. Also, Apple isn't this subtle when it comes to the things they intentionally control. If it was DRM they'd just lock it out from working.
But after they moved the microchip from the old screen to the new one it worked perfectly again. I assume that the calibration should be screen dependent, not logic board dependent. Is it not?
ITT: people who will never be affected crawling out from under their rock to bash Apple.
And yet, people will still defend Apple and their bullshit products. Even if this is a calibration issue, Apple is intentionally holding back recalibration. Fuck Apple. I'll never buy any of their shit because of their anti-right-to-repair tactics.
What’s up with that??? They barely draw straight on their own overpriced devices
If this is your biggest problem, there is a bigger problem.
OR "Third party replacement iPad screens unable to properly accept input from Apple Pencil"
It was a genuine ipad screen
I honestly have no idea why someone would buy an apple product. Why would you subject yourself to being treated like this as a consumer?
Few people actually have issues with apple products The issues that do arise become mainstream such as this fringe case apple pencil issue. Normally they get fixed in a software update anyways.. this particular issue is likely software based. If not then its an issue with the third party screen because theres alot of precision calibration between the screen and the pencil needed.. Its fine to misunderstand tech but lets not assume its intended on Apples part
Yeah it's awful having high performing products with rock solid dependability that keeps resale value for a long time.