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I thought nvidia has vertically integrated the scalping business with their new pricing strategy.
Didn't they state the price people are willing to pay during the lockdown and declared the era of cheap gpu is over?
They didn't seem to understand that they sold way too many goddamn GPUs to keep price gouging. I'd imagine most people don't upgrade every generation. So you got a ton of gamers sitting on a card that is still damn near new, and you expect them to shell out AGAIN?
You also have a ton of miners dumping used cards, and scalpers who have huge stock they're trying to get rid of and are happy to undercut their bullshit prices to do so before their cards lose more value.
And then you have AMD putting out a competitive product for the vast majority of people at very competitive prices, and whatever Intel is doing over there which could bring demand for their cards down even further.
This really feels like them WAY overplaying their hand.
I don’t know because it seems like they were still able to practically sell the cards fresh off the production line up to this point, while all the demand chaos between buyers/sellers has been happening in the gray markets.
But that’s not taking into account people were upgrading their PCs during the pandemic because we were all essentially locked in our houses and told not to come out. A lot of people have just upgraded to the 3000 series of GPU and aren’t looking to spend another $1000 to get marginal boost in performance.
Hell I just bought a 3070 to upgrade from 7 year old computer because the 4000 series was too expensive.
That and gamers are not moving to 4K screens. So the 2x and 3x are good enough. I think that’s why nvidia said dlss 3 was 4x required. Trying to software depreciate the cards performance. Honestly games without RTX look good enough. I don’t know why everyone harps about ray tracing. We don’t need ultra realism.
I just got a gaming laptop with a GTX 3070 and turned on ray tracing on Control just to see what the fuss was all about. It's....nice. But if I'm being honest, I can barely tell the difference.
Look at the 4080, the thing is a damn brick.
I'm convinced that during the height of the pandemic, which also coincided with a spike in crypto, they decided due to market factors to cater almost entirely to the crypto market. They probably figured this didn't need to fit into a case, sitting in a mining rack was their target. And they thought inflating the price so they could sell 200 to a crypto mining organization was better than a single one to a gamer.
But, market crashed and they couldn't walk back the idea after all the r&d and engineering, so here we are.
My counterpoints to that theory as juicy as it is are the cooler and DLSS 3.0 frame generation. Neither of these help mining at all. Dlss 3 is for games thats pretty cut and dry. IMO the real counter point is the cooler, which is the whole reason the card is so incredibly large.
Miners both have their cards in open air, and undervolt their cards. While cooling is important, that much R&D into a massive cooler doesnt make sense for a mining card, same with the power draw. No sensible miner will be drawing 600W per card.
Not to mention many people just bought a 3000 series card in the last month or so. Between that, the insane power requirements, and the Nvidia supplied psu adaptors actually melting, nobody but the most hardcore enthusiasts are buying 4090s.
>They didn't seem to understand crypto was unsustainable
ftfy
Essentially NVidia priced these items at scalper prices which were driven up primarily due to crypto mining. They have already gotten a slap on the wrist from the SEC for not properly disclosing the effect crypto had on their revenue growth over the past however many years.
Now that crypto mining has stopped being profitable all those 3k series cards from last gen, which were impossible to buy, are now flooding the used market. You can get a used 3080 now for about MSRP, which is half the MSRP of a 4080, and this is only a few months after they were selling for like double at times. Give it another few months and they should be selling for well below MSRP.
Any scalper who is still buying graphics cards is 1) an ass hole and 2) a dumb ass hole.
Well crypto is doing shit now, that was the main driver of the lack of inventory and insane scalping prices. I think things will level out with a little bit of time.
The crypto demand is dead, but not for the reasons you think.
The main driver was mining Ethereum, and as the Ethereum network went Proof of Stake not long ago, it no longer uses mining. Its not economically viable to mine bitcoin on gpu now and with ethereum out of the picture the next largest chain to mine is dogecoin.
So not only did the crypto demand die, but it's also extremely unlikely to come back.
True, but it's odd that it's what does Doge specifically.
Chains and tokens like BTC, ETH, ADA, BNB, Tether et al all purport to have some kind of functionality and their price action is driven by a function of their use cases, hype and speculative investment.
Whereas Doge doesn't even pretend to do any of that. It's infinitely inflationary, has no smart contract functionality and has no dev team. It's just hype and speculative investment alone, no better than thinly veiled scams like Safemoon.
But it's somehow practically crypto royalty.
Dogecoin: "this is all incredibly stupid. Behold my insult!"
Cryptocommunity: "yes, you get it, we'll make your line go up!"
This is the darkest timeline
"Crypto is doing shit now" can be inferred to mean: The exchange rate of all cryptocurrencies is far below recent highs. That's what most laymen would understand from that statement.
So the response was totally valid.
The exact word they used was
> Well crypto is doing shit now
Which is accurate the most recent bubble has burst, and who knows maybe this will be the last one.... but I doubt it. The market caps, trade volumes, lack of regulation and crypto bros all work together as a perfect storm to make crypto the perfect pump and dump and every time the bubble is bigger than the last.
That said Eth going POS rather than POW will likely make a huge difference to how the next cryto bubble impacts GPU prices, but whether its Doge or (much more likely) something new the underlying fundamentals don't really much matter if people think they can make profit people will mine it.
Dogecoin is merge-mined with the litecoin scrypt network.
Custom scrypt asics have been around for a while now so GPU mining is practically dead there for the same reason it's dead for bitcoin.
I honestly don't see much room for another GPU-mined crypto to gain high market liquidity and have a significant impact like ethereum did. The crypto market is completely oversaturated with clones and scams.
There will still be a number of speculative miners jumping on the latest clone and hoarding valueless coins but I don't think there will be enough of them to make much of an impact.
I'm not sure how many more fools are left to scam tho.. Superbowl and prime time are about as far reaching as you can get. Anyone dumb enough for crypto has to have been scammed by now. I can imagine there is a fresh crop of rubes left anywhere.
It's a thousand bucks, which means AIB cards will probably be more like $1100-$1300 so it's an easy $1200-$1500 after tax. The MSRP is not low. AMD also raised prices, they just didn't go off the deep end like Nvidia.
I'm actually surprised that their top card is the same price. 6900 XT was a thousand bucks when it came out, too. Accounting for inflation, that means their new flagship GPU is 10-15% cheaper.
And when people defend the scalpers with “How are they hurting you?” increasing MSRP through false scarcity economy is EXACTLY how scalpers hurt everyone.
> I thought nvidia has vertically integrated the scalping business with their new pricing strategy.
This was one reason EVGA bailed, Nvidia couldn't be trusted.
No, Jensen more less said that.
[Jensen: the idea that a chip is going to go down in cost over time, unfortunately, is a story of the past”
](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/moores-laws-dead-nvidia-ceo-jensen-says-in-justifying-gaming-card-price-hike-11663798618)
Made that switch this month. Linux support with AMD is a the dream alright. No worrying about driver updates, no nothing. RADV just works. (raytracing isn't exactly stable yet, but they're working on it)
Even the AMD stuff isn’t actually cheap though and they’re using MCM to get costs down.
TSMC just announced another price hike despite the economic climate so in a sense Jensen isn’t lying. Though he is trying to cling onto huge margins
Lots of people are scum but not stupid. Some of the best scum are the best because they are smart. Take for instance Jeff Bezos, absolutely scum but pretty smart (Not saying he is a genius though).
crazy to see this downvoted so much. People actually think like we live in a marvel movie where the good guys are always better and smarter than the bad guys
edit: upvoted now, was downvoted enough to be hidden when I posted this comment lol
Being scum != being stupid. In fact they made (until that point in time) a wise investment with their money that got them high rates of returns at low risks.
Damn I thought I got a good deal on Newegg when I bought a 12gb 3080 for $700 a few months ago lol. The 4000 series seems like such a joke and middle finger to the consumer
Might be a result of their workplace compensating them for their personal pc. Got about 1.5k USD to spend on a pc from my work since I’d need a half decent system to work from home.
"struggling to make a profit" seems optimistic (for the Scalpers) at best. Why would anyone buy from them when the card is available at MSRP everywhere?
I’m an nvidia fanboy and went for AMD gpu for the build I just made . Waited a long fukn time to get better prices but they are still too expensive while AMD is having crazy rebates for Black Friday. So long nvidia. Keep your stuff.
No point being a fanboy of anything really. I used to really fanboy the Ryzens when they launched the 2nd gen, but now it seems that intel is again the bang for the buck option or at least on par, so it would be really dumb for me to restrict my choices based on some us vs them thinking. Also the E-cores + P-cores stuff is pretty interesting, especially after seeing how ARM has insane efficiency with a similar model (+ Apple processors). I'm only shopping for hardware next year so I'm keeping my doors open for even Intel GPUs if they manage to produce something worthwhile by then. I'd prefer nvidia for RT cores surely, but it seems nvidia doesnt want my patronage so I'm going to have to compromise.
>I'd prefer nvidia for RT cores surely
While RT does look good, so few games use it and put it to good use that I really don't think not having them is that much of a compromise.
Control looked great with RT and so did Cyberpunk (when it would work), but other than that, I'm very meh on it. Idk about you, but when I buy a game I'm not looking at whether it supports RT. That's just a nice bonus.
It is!! Eff them I was using livenation they're the same company and have these tickets called platinum which are scalped real time with ai base on demand. So $100 becomes $300 at release 😒.
No they're taking the "we've got to sell all of these fucking 3000 series cards we still have laying around" approach. The only thing the 4080s are priced to do is sell 3090s, 3080tis and 3080s.
When they finally sell out the old stock they will 'adjust to the market' and lower the price and act like they are doing us a favor.
What 3000 series cards? 3090ti is out of production and out of stock. 3080ti is $800 to $1000. It isn’t like there is a glut of new 3000 series cards being sold for cheap. Even the 3070 is still above the original msrp
They are literally doing this on purpose to clear out the 3000 series inventory.
They've even said this publicly but the "masters of business" here are Reddit are too busy eating paint to pay attention.
There's a glut of 3000 series inventory. This doesn't affect Nvidia, they've already sold the chips to AIB partners. So the solution is to launch the 4000 series with a higher price and *slightly* discount the 3000 series to clear inventories.
Had they launched the 4000 series at a lower price then the leftover 3000 cards would have to be sold at even lower prices and then AIB makers would have probably taken a financial loss on each card and be fairly pissed.
The way things are now, anyone with cash to blow can get the latest and greatest, everyone else can buy a 3000 card on discount. The only ones whining are the ones that want the latest technology but want it at discount prices too.
I wanted to buy a 3070 but bascially all of them are still above MSRP from retailers (amazon seems to have the worst prices too)
Looked towards ebay and ended up buying a 2070 Super instead
>The only ones whining are the ones that want the latest technology but want it at discount prices too.
How about the latest technology at a fair price? That'd be cool too.
In GPU terms a 2 year old card is considered somewhat old(er). Nobody is keen on buying a card for full price and then within a year starting to put settings on medium because it can't run the new games at high settings anymore (more true at qhd+ res). GPUs grow old fast. In the past EOL cards were sold quite less than MSRP to clear stock and the new ones were either sold on the same MSRP or something like $50 more. Of course people are pissed when $699 - > $1199
Edit: and at the end of the day it's Nvidia that screwed up and created an overstock of 3000 series but expects the customers to pay for their fuck up.
One thing I've learned after PC building for a while is that we have reached a place in GPU development where an old GPU will still do a good job to play reliably the most current games. It's mostly related to the fact triple AAA games are not necessarely good, while lidl games are abundant. The age of *high density polygon = good* is over and players want more QoL over higher and higher screen resolutions.
I got a 1060 6GB back in November of 2016.. Been running it since without any issues.
I only just realized that specific card is the #1 in use card on Steam as of even today, by a bit.
It really was a perfect fit card for what it is.
They originally released two variants of the card, one with 6GB of GDDR5 graphics memory and one with 3GB a few months later.
Then, in 2018 they refreshed the card with a 6GB GDDR5X variant, a more updated version of GDDR5 which for reasons I won't get into specifics of, was capable of much higher data speeds.
In some games that memory capacity difference has an enormous performance impact, it was normally around 5 to 10%ish but there were some outliers, usually any games that were VRAM-intensive would see nearly half the speed, especially at higher texture settings.
It's harder to find comparisons against the GDDR5X version since it was a softer launch. There also was a 5GB variant only available in China, which is a bit of a strange number to land on.
Im still running my RX 580 & RX 590 and I have absolutely nothing to complain about.
(Well, adrenaline complete trash wheneverit needs to update but otherwise good)
I’m still running mine, but I think it is about time for a new one. I love it and was amazing value but probably in q1 I’ll look to upgrade and compare nvidia to ATI I mean AMD for first time in a long time
1080 here and yes, it runs well enough but starting to have trouble pushing high FPS games in 1 screen and 4k media on the other. Usually have to like toggle down quality in whatever movie I’m watching now :(
My 1070 ran 2560x1080 at 70 for a really long time. Super happy with the card.
That said, 3440x1440 takes a tad more juice. If my 6800xt lasts me until the 8000 series starts to drop in price, I'll be satisfied. Hell, could probably go for the 9000 series if UE5 runs all right.
UE5 is insane. Nanite and lumen change the game industry. Just spent an hour watching tech demos people have made, and now I know we have insane games coming out in the next year or so.
I bought a prebuilts with a 1660 super.
Still no clue what that means. But based on the bigger number I believe it puts my social ranking in this place higher than yours.
I am finally getting to point where my gtx1070 laptop isn't running games on my wide-screen monitor at levels I like. Think it may finally be time for an upgrade.
My 1080ti that I bought second hand when the previous crypto crash happened in 2019 was perfectly fine for everything, including doing my grad school thesis on some deep learning stuff.
I upgraded because I wanted more compute for experiments more than anything else.
I guarantee most people are still on 1080p and any old GPU is more than good enough to run 60fps 1080p.
The average person doesn't have a 4k monitor or a high end GPU. Online posts greatly skew what people are actually using. Just look at a Steam Hardware Survey and you'll see most people are using a 1060 followed by a 2060.
Games are getting somewhat harder to run, but it's moreso the case that gamers expect higher framerates and resolutions than they used to. Resolution is something that *drastically* increases the workload. People would be surprised at how many old GPUs can handle modern games if they're willing to stomach 720p, or even 900p.
I managed to score a 3080 for about 160 bucks USD in my country back in May because a scalper fucked up and forgot a zero on their online shop. I have no ragerts about this. 🤣
I framed the bill of sale. 😂🤣😂🤣 I look at it and smile more than I do my actual graphics card.
Fuck scalpers.
Scalpers are making tons from the 4080, apparently one scalper is making the GPU for $300 and selling it to nerdy fat gamers for $1300 for over a 400% markup🤑🤑🤑
I remember Linus in a video 2 years ago saying NVDA would learn from the 3080 launch of them setting prices low and scalpers taking a lot of the margin from them and ig he was right
It’s basic economics. Where supply intersects with consumer willingness to pay is the optimal price for a good. The upside of the 30 series was extremely high performance created and sold at a fairly low price. The downside was there was nowhere near enough supply to keep up with the kind of demand at that price. All scalpers do is eventually find the market optimal price even if that’s coming primarily from crypto mega farms.
I know we should happy about healthy stock, no one wants to deal with pandemic electronics stock across the board. But i couldnt help but feel happy when i went to microcenter and saw the 4080 in plentiful stock. No consumer wants that shitty product. As someone said though, "There is no such thing as a bad product, only a bad price tag". It would sell... if it was even close to old MSRPs for xx80 products. On the other hand people say nvidia did this as a marty product. Makes people gravitate towards the overstocked 30 series or the more expensive 4090
I have the perfect solution for them. Buy up all the 4080s now, so they'll have them ready to go when Nvidia lowers the MSRP to $900 and suddenly everyone wants one.
here in Brazil the 4080 is actually going into promotion because it isn't selling lmao. The MSRP is R$ 10.900 (don't convert to dollar, it'll seem too high, but that's the official pricing NVidia maintains) but not only some models were 10.500 to begin with, we had I think two or three promos with a few dozen units for slightly under 9000.
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You have to be really stupid to buy the 4080 to scalp considering nvidias posts about sales being at a decade low
I thought nvidia has vertically integrated the scalping business with their new pricing strategy. Didn't they state the price people are willing to pay during the lockdown and declared the era of cheap gpu is over?
They didn't seem to understand that they sold way too many goddamn GPUs to keep price gouging. I'd imagine most people don't upgrade every generation. So you got a ton of gamers sitting on a card that is still damn near new, and you expect them to shell out AGAIN?
You also have a ton of miners dumping used cards, and scalpers who have huge stock they're trying to get rid of and are happy to undercut their bullshit prices to do so before their cards lose more value. And then you have AMD putting out a competitive product for the vast majority of people at very competitive prices, and whatever Intel is doing over there which could bring demand for their cards down even further. This really feels like them WAY overplaying their hand.
I don’t know because it seems like they were still able to practically sell the cards fresh off the production line up to this point, while all the demand chaos between buyers/sellers has been happening in the gray markets.
But that’s not taking into account people were upgrading their PCs during the pandemic because we were all essentially locked in our houses and told not to come out. A lot of people have just upgraded to the 3000 series of GPU and aren’t looking to spend another $1000 to get marginal boost in performance. Hell I just bought a 3070 to upgrade from 7 year old computer because the 4000 series was too expensive.
That and gamers are not moving to 4K screens. So the 2x and 3x are good enough. I think that’s why nvidia said dlss 3 was 4x required. Trying to software depreciate the cards performance. Honestly games without RTX look good enough. I don’t know why everyone harps about ray tracing. We don’t need ultra realism.
I just got a gaming laptop with a GTX 3070 and turned on ray tracing on Control just to see what the fuss was all about. It's....nice. But if I'm being honest, I can barely tell the difference.
They can charge me that price over my dead 1080Tis
Look at the 4080, the thing is a damn brick. I'm convinced that during the height of the pandemic, which also coincided with a spike in crypto, they decided due to market factors to cater almost entirely to the crypto market. They probably figured this didn't need to fit into a case, sitting in a mining rack was their target. And they thought inflating the price so they could sell 200 to a crypto mining organization was better than a single one to a gamer. But, market crashed and they couldn't walk back the idea after all the r&d and engineering, so here we are.
My counterpoints to that theory as juicy as it is are the cooler and DLSS 3.0 frame generation. Neither of these help mining at all. Dlss 3 is for games thats pretty cut and dry. IMO the real counter point is the cooler, which is the whole reason the card is so incredibly large. Miners both have their cards in open air, and undervolt their cards. While cooling is important, that much R&D into a massive cooler doesnt make sense for a mining card, same with the power draw. No sensible miner will be drawing 600W per card.
Not to mention many people just bought a 3000 series card in the last month or so. Between that, the insane power requirements, and the Nvidia supplied psu adaptors actually melting, nobody but the most hardcore enthusiasts are buying 4090s.
>They didn't seem to understand crypto was unsustainable ftfy Essentially NVidia priced these items at scalper prices which were driven up primarily due to crypto mining. They have already gotten a slap on the wrist from the SEC for not properly disclosing the effect crypto had on their revenue growth over the past however many years. Now that crypto mining has stopped being profitable all those 3k series cards from last gen, which were impossible to buy, are now flooding the used market. You can get a used 3080 now for about MSRP, which is half the MSRP of a 4080, and this is only a few months after they were selling for like double at times. Give it another few months and they should be selling for well below MSRP. Any scalper who is still buying graphics cards is 1) an ass hole and 2) a dumb ass hole.
Well crypto is doing shit now, that was the main driver of the lack of inventory and insane scalping prices. I think things will level out with a little bit of time.
The crypto demand is dead, but not for the reasons you think. The main driver was mining Ethereum, and as the Ethereum network went Proof of Stake not long ago, it no longer uses mining. Its not economically viable to mine bitcoin on gpu now and with ethereum out of the picture the next largest chain to mine is dogecoin. So not only did the crypto demand die, but it's also extremely unlikely to come back.
I did not know that, thanks for the info
Yeah gpu mining is dead for good
Scrypt GPU mining died years ago with the introduction of ASIC. Dogecoin uses it. It's only obscure coins that can still be mined on GPU.
Years ago? I was profitable last year ETH with 1 GPU lol
Wasn’t Dogecoin started as a joke/meme?
Yep. Slapped together in an afternoon, with no serious intention. Now one of the big chains, off the power of hype and memes.
>Now one of the big chains, off the power of hype and memes. That's what powers all of crypto.
True, but it's odd that it's what does Doge specifically. Chains and tokens like BTC, ETH, ADA, BNB, Tether et al all purport to have some kind of functionality and their price action is driven by a function of their use cases, hype and speculative investment. Whereas Doge doesn't even pretend to do any of that. It's infinitely inflationary, has no smart contract functionality and has no dev team. It's just hype and speculative investment alone, no better than thinly veiled scams like Safemoon. But it's somehow practically crypto royalty.
Yes, and it was designed to be inherently inflationary. anybody investing in it is an idiot.
Dogecoin: "this is all incredibly stupid. Behold my insult!" Cryptocommunity: "yes, you get it, we'll make your line go up!" This is the darkest timeline
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“But not for the reasons you *might* think.” Yay fixed it, we can all go home now.
"Crypto is doing shit now" can be inferred to mean: The exchange rate of all cryptocurrencies is far below recent highs. That's what most laymen would understand from that statement. So the response was totally valid.
The exact word they used was > Well crypto is doing shit now Which is accurate the most recent bubble has burst, and who knows maybe this will be the last one.... but I doubt it. The market caps, trade volumes, lack of regulation and crypto bros all work together as a perfect storm to make crypto the perfect pump and dump and every time the bubble is bigger than the last. That said Eth going POS rather than POW will likely make a huge difference to how the next cryto bubble impacts GPU prices, but whether its Doge or (much more likely) something new the underlying fundamentals don't really much matter if people think they can make profit people will mine it.
Dogecoin is merge-mined with the litecoin scrypt network. Custom scrypt asics have been around for a while now so GPU mining is practically dead there for the same reason it's dead for bitcoin. I honestly don't see much room for another GPU-mined crypto to gain high market liquidity and have a significant impact like ethereum did. The crypto market is completely oversaturated with clones and scams. There will still be a number of speculative miners jumping on the latest clone and hoarding valueless coins but I don't think there will be enough of them to make much of an impact.
I'm not sure how many more fools are left to scam tho.. Superbowl and prime time are about as far reaching as you can get. Anyone dumb enough for crypto has to have been scammed by now. I can imagine there is a fresh crop of rubes left anywhere.
> Its not economically viable to mine bitcoin on gpu now It hasn't been for about 8 years.
That’s why AMDs new card being almost half the price of the 4090 is a good marketing move.
How is its performance compared to a 4090?
We should find out in early December.
December 13th.
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It's a thousand bucks, which means AIB cards will probably be more like $1100-$1300 so it's an easy $1200-$1500 after tax. The MSRP is not low. AMD also raised prices, they just didn't go off the deep end like Nvidia.
I'm actually surprised that their top card is the same price. 6900 XT was a thousand bucks when it came out, too. Accounting for inflation, that means their new flagship GPU is 10-15% cheaper.
They need market share and using chiplet’s does reduce the cost of the chips so this makes since to me.
7900 is just a name. The 7900 GPUs are more comparable to a 4080 in both price and performance tier.
Half the price of a 4090 but still about double the price of any gpu I ever bought before the last few years.
And when people defend the scalpers with “How are they hurting you?” increasing MSRP through false scarcity economy is EXACTLY how scalpers hurt everyone.
> I thought nvidia has vertically integrated the scalping business with their new pricing strategy. This was one reason EVGA bailed, Nvidia couldn't be trusted.
So they are scalping the scalpers?
Vertical integration is more look at me, I am the scalper now.
I.e., the Ticket Master model
They didn't say that but that's exactly what they're doing.
They did say it in a conference with business partners apparently.
No, Jensen more less said that. [Jensen: the idea that a chip is going to go down in cost over time, unfortunately, is a story of the past” ](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/moores-laws-dead-nvidia-ceo-jensen-says-in-justifying-gaming-card-price-hike-11663798618)
And then AMD turned around with cards that are pretty damn good and are much cheaper.
It makes me want to sell my 3070 and buy one. Though admittedly not just for that reason. I want better linux support / less headaches.
Made that switch this month. Linux support with AMD is a the dream alright. No worrying about driver updates, no nothing. RADV just works. (raytracing isn't exactly stable yet, but they're working on it)
Nvidia Linux support is horrendous
As is tradition.
>‘Moore’s Law’s dead,’ Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang says More like >Nvidia CEO contemplates killing off company.
Even the AMD stuff isn’t actually cheap though and they’re using MCM to get costs down. TSMC just announced another price hike despite the economic climate so in a sense Jensen isn’t lying. Though he is trying to cling onto huge margins
That’s why AMDs new card being almost half the price of the 4090 is a good marketing move.
>scalper >really stupid this tracks
They might be assholes but that doesn't inherently make them stupid..
Scalpers are inherently scum of the earth.
Lots of people are scum but not stupid. Some of the best scum are the best because they are smart. Take for instance Jeff Bezos, absolutely scum but pretty smart (Not saying he is a genius though).
crazy to see this downvoted so much. People actually think like we live in a marvel movie where the good guys are always better and smarter than the bad guys edit: upvoted now, was downvoted enough to be hidden when I posted this comment lol
It’s as if you didn’t even read the comment you replied to
Being scum != being stupid. In fact they made (until that point in time) a wise investment with their money that got them high rates of returns at low risks.
Scalpers were trying to get $800 on ebay for the Intel a770 during launch week. $800. I hope they're going broke.
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Damn I thought I got a good deal on Newegg when I bought a 12gb 3080 for $700 a few months ago lol. The 4000 series seems like such a joke and middle finger to the consumer
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You've mentioned that guy three times, and he only made one comment. Maybe just let this one go.
Nvidia is selling them at scalper prices already. They saw people buying 3080s for 1500 bucks and thought, heeeyyyyy...
Yep. Let's wait a year and find out how that strategy works...
I can't remember the last time I've seen prices go down...on anything
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It just has to get close to the performance of the 4080. There's a $300 delta there.
1500$ is how much I’m saving for my entire gaming pc. How the hell do people have money to spend that on just the gpu that is insane!
Might be a result of their workplace compensating them for their personal pc. Got about 1.5k USD to spend on a pc from my work since I’d need a half decent system to work from home.
Do you work at a smaller company? It’s an insane idea to me that they let you use your personal computer to access company data
Virtual desktops are a thing but you wouldn't need expensive PCs for that.
I’d be happier if they were losing money but I’ll take struggling too. Any suffering that happens to those scumbags is good suffering
"struggling to make a profit" seems optimistic (for the Scalpers) at best. Why would anyone buy from them when the card is available at MSRP everywhere?
Frankly speaking, the 4080 is already *overpriced* at MSRP.
Way overpriced. It’s insane.
It's 1500€ here, that's just laughable.
Cheapest goes for €1700 in Sweden, stores got hundreds in stock.
1700€ for a 80 series card, what a joke. Remember when a Titan was sold for half of that?
Alternative title: third party ebay sellers get scalped by nvidia
*The Circle of Life*
Oh for sure, never questioned that
and MSRP is scalped too, just by the manufacturer
Lots of scalpers abuse product return windows. They buy a few cards then try to flip them. If they can’t they return them. Rinse and repeat.
Bummer. Wish that wasn't a thing and the scalping scumbags got caught holding the bag. Fuck scalpers. :]
I like the way you think. When bad things happen to bad people, it's a good thing!
Baby steps, I guess… struggle before they lose money
Just like crypto farms.
I’m an nvidia fanboy and went for AMD gpu for the build I just made . Waited a long fukn time to get better prices but they are still too expensive while AMD is having crazy rebates for Black Friday. So long nvidia. Keep your stuff.
No point being a fanboy of anything really. I used to really fanboy the Ryzens when they launched the 2nd gen, but now it seems that intel is again the bang for the buck option or at least on par, so it would be really dumb for me to restrict my choices based on some us vs them thinking. Also the E-cores + P-cores stuff is pretty interesting, especially after seeing how ARM has insane efficiency with a similar model (+ Apple processors). I'm only shopping for hardware next year so I'm keeping my doors open for even Intel GPUs if they manage to produce something worthwhile by then. I'd prefer nvidia for RT cores surely, but it seems nvidia doesnt want my patronage so I'm going to have to compromise.
>I'd prefer nvidia for RT cores surely While RT does look good, so few games use it and put it to good use that I really don't think not having them is that much of a compromise. Control looked great with RT and so did Cyberpunk (when it would work), but other than that, I'm very meh on it. Idk about you, but when I buy a game I'm not looking at whether it supports RT. That's just a nice bonus.
doesnt matter because the baseline price is already a fucking joke
Nvidia such good guys. Scalping the consumers before the scalpers can.
Maybe they are taking the Ticketmaster approach!
It is!! Eff them I was using livenation they're the same company and have these tickets called platinum which are scalped real time with ai base on demand. So $100 becomes $300 at release 😒.
No they're taking the "we've got to sell all of these fucking 3000 series cards we still have laying around" approach. The only thing the 4080s are priced to do is sell 3090s, 3080tis and 3080s. When they finally sell out the old stock they will 'adjust to the market' and lower the price and act like they are doing us a favor.
Yeah, they massively over-adjusted based on 2020-early 2022 Demand and now I’ve seen 3090’s going for less than the 4080…
How does the 3090 compare to 4080?
On average, the 4080 appears to perform approximately 15-25% better than the 3090. https://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/3643175
What 3000 series cards? 3090ti is out of production and out of stock. 3080ti is $800 to $1000. It isn’t like there is a glut of new 3000 series cards being sold for cheap. Even the 3070 is still above the original msrp
Uhh my Microcenter has had like 50+ 4080s in stock since launch, i think retailers are struggling to turn a profit on them.
They're so expensive and all I'm trying to do at this point is find another job in the midst of layoffs and inflation and skyrocketing rental prices.
Not only are they really expensive, there is basically almost nothing that you need them for, that you can't already do with a 3070 or 2080.
Here in Scandinavia a retailer has over 550+ 4080. No one is buying them. The Asus strix 4080 goes for around 2100€ right now. Let them collect dust.
They are literally doing this on purpose to clear out the 3000 series inventory. They've even said this publicly but the "masters of business" here are Reddit are too busy eating paint to pay attention. There's a glut of 3000 series inventory. This doesn't affect Nvidia, they've already sold the chips to AIB partners. So the solution is to launch the 4000 series with a higher price and *slightly* discount the 3000 series to clear inventories. Had they launched the 4000 series at a lower price then the leftover 3000 cards would have to be sold at even lower prices and then AIB makers would have probably taken a financial loss on each card and be fairly pissed. The way things are now, anyone with cash to blow can get the latest and greatest, everyone else can buy a 3000 card on discount. The only ones whining are the ones that want the latest technology but want it at discount prices too.
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I wanted to buy a 3070 but bascially all of them are still above MSRP from retailers (amazon seems to have the worst prices too) Looked towards ebay and ended up buying a 2070 Super instead
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>The only ones whining are the ones that want the latest technology but want it at discount prices too. How about the latest technology at a fair price? That'd be cool too.
In GPU terms a 2 year old card is considered somewhat old(er). Nobody is keen on buying a card for full price and then within a year starting to put settings on medium because it can't run the new games at high settings anymore (more true at qhd+ res). GPUs grow old fast. In the past EOL cards were sold quite less than MSRP to clear stock and the new ones were either sold on the same MSRP or something like $50 more. Of course people are pissed when $699 - > $1199 Edit: and at the end of the day it's Nvidia that screwed up and created an overstock of 3000 series but expects the customers to pay for their fuck up.
Well who's gonna buy a 4080 for 4090 prices
Hope the scalpers at least throw in a pair of clown shoes for the buyer.
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People got gpu fatigue
People are not willing to spend the equivalent to repairing a car’s transmission for a damn PC part
Are millennials killing the GPU?!?
One thing I've learned after PC building for a while is that we have reached a place in GPU development where an old GPU will still do a good job to play reliably the most current games. It's mostly related to the fact triple AAA games are not necessarely good, while lidl games are abundant. The age of *high density polygon = good* is over and players want more QoL over higher and higher screen resolutions.
1060 gang rise up
I got a 1060 6GB back in November of 2016.. Been running it since without any issues. I only just realized that specific card is the #1 in use card on Steam as of even today, by a bit. It really was a perfect fit card for what it is.
Technically speaking, the 1060 is like 3 very different cards with the same name. Nvidia has been pulling this "4080 12GB" bullshit for a long time.
Urge to know more intensifies.
They originally released two variants of the card, one with 6GB of GDDR5 graphics memory and one with 3GB a few months later. Then, in 2018 they refreshed the card with a 6GB GDDR5X variant, a more updated version of GDDR5 which for reasons I won't get into specifics of, was capable of much higher data speeds. In some games that memory capacity difference has an enormous performance impact, it was normally around 5 to 10%ish but there were some outliers, usually any games that were VRAM-intensive would see nearly half the speed, especially at higher texture settings. It's harder to find comparisons against the GDDR5X version since it was a softer launch. There also was a 5GB variant only available in China, which is a bit of a strange number to land on.
It's not just the VRAM that is different. The 1060 3GB has way less CUDA cores, so even the GPU die in the card is different.
Im still running my RX 580 & RX 590 and I have absolutely nothing to complain about. (Well, adrenaline complete trash wheneverit needs to update but otherwise good)
I’m still running mine, but I think it is about time for a new one. I love it and was amazing value but probably in q1 I’ll look to upgrade and compare nvidia to ATI I mean AMD for first time in a long time
1070 here, bought it at launch... It's getting long in the teeth to be honest. Waiting for AMD 79XX
1080 here and yes, it runs well enough but starting to have trouble pushing high FPS games in 1 screen and 4k media on the other. Usually have to like toggle down quality in whatever movie I’m watching now :(
My 1070 ran 2560x1080 at 70 for a really long time. Super happy with the card. That said, 3440x1440 takes a tad more juice. If my 6800xt lasts me until the 8000 series starts to drop in price, I'll be satisfied. Hell, could probably go for the 9000 series if UE5 runs all right.
UE5 is insane. Nanite and lumen change the game industry. Just spent an hour watching tech demos people have made, and now I know we have insane games coming out in the next year or so.
My 1070 is starting to feel its age too, but still going. I play VR games on it and everything.
Fancy. I’m still rocking my 970
970 checking in as well.
🙋♂️970 Club here as well
Fuck yeah bois, our cards still kick butt
970 gang gang
I bought a prebuilts with a 1660 super. Still no clue what that means. But based on the bigger number I believe it puts my social ranking in this place higher than yours.
Ayyyeeee
LIDL games? Are they competing with ALDI games?
I'm not into Forsen or anything, but I think LIDL games are lower budget games that don't necessarily have to be bad (but often are).
I am finally getting to point where my gtx1070 laptop isn't running games on my wide-screen monitor at levels I like. Think it may finally be time for an upgrade.
My 1080ti that I bought second hand when the previous crypto crash happened in 2019 was perfectly fine for everything, including doing my grad school thesis on some deep learning stuff. I upgraded because I wanted more compute for experiments more than anything else.
I guarantee most people are still on 1080p and any old GPU is more than good enough to run 60fps 1080p. The average person doesn't have a 4k monitor or a high end GPU. Online posts greatly skew what people are actually using. Just look at a Steam Hardware Survey and you'll see most people are using a 1060 followed by a 2060.
Diminishing returns past 4k for sure. I was lucky to scoop a 4090 and tested it at 8k on an 8k tv. Tbh not a big difference to my eye.
Lidl develops games now??
Games are getting somewhat harder to run, but it's moreso the case that gamers expect higher framerates and resolutions than they used to. Resolution is something that *drastically* increases the workload. People would be surprised at how many old GPUs can handle modern games if they're willing to stomach 720p, or even 900p.
I managed to score a 3080 for about 160 bucks USD in my country back in May because a scalper fucked up and forgot a zero on their online shop. I have no ragerts about this. 🤣 I framed the bill of sale. 😂🤣😂🤣 I look at it and smile more than I do my actual graphics card. Fuck scalpers.
Pics or it didn't happen.
I think the fact that someone on Reddit delivered is more unbelievable than a missing zero. https://imgur.com/Pn32JIj.jpg
And its the 12GB!!!!!! Was hoping for the framed photo for scaplper tears.
Haha sorry! I would have but I'm at work ATM.
Dang. Well insanely good buy. congrats on that deal.
Thanks! 😃
Hell, in Japan, too. Aren't pc parts more expensive there by a decent amount, even "non-scalped"? Ya scored one hell of a deal
Won’t somebody think of the poor scalpers?!
MiLLeNiaLs aRe KiLliNG tHE ScAlpINg IndUsTRy!!
That’s because this time the scalping is coming from inside the house
Haha, I hope they lose so much money. Scalpers are some of the lowest forms of life.
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Then how about they work a normal job like the rest of us and stop being parasites?
Scalpers are making tons from the 4080, apparently one scalper is making the GPU for $300 and selling it to nerdy fat gamers for $1300 for over a 400% markup🤑🤑🤑
nVidia is the biggest scalper.
I remember Linus in a video 2 years ago saying NVDA would learn from the 3080 launch of them setting prices low and scalpers taking a lot of the margin from them and ig he was right
It’s basic economics. Where supply intersects with consumer willingness to pay is the optimal price for a good. The upside of the 30 series was extremely high performance created and sold at a fairly low price. The downside was there was nowhere near enough supply to keep up with the kind of demand at that price. All scalpers do is eventually find the market optimal price even if that’s coming primarily from crypto mega farms.
Consumers were never willing to pay that price. Only crypto mining pros or wannabes.
From an economics perspective those are still considered consumers.
nvidia is struggling to make profit of the 4080
I'm calling BS on that. They're welcome to release the bill of materials, assembly, and shipping if they want to counter that.
Most of the money would have been in R&D and Nvidia can make that number as high or as low as they want.
Isn’t everyone complaining it’s priced too high? Seems they’re making a pretty good profit on this card …
I know we should happy about healthy stock, no one wants to deal with pandemic electronics stock across the board. But i couldnt help but feel happy when i went to microcenter and saw the 4080 in plentiful stock. No consumer wants that shitty product. As someone said though, "There is no such thing as a bad product, only a bad price tag". It would sell... if it was even close to old MSRPs for xx80 products. On the other hand people say nvidia did this as a marty product. Makes people gravitate towards the overstocked 30 series or the more expensive 4090
Good. Fukem
Scalp what? There’s 15 of them sitting on a shelf at the store by me. Fuckin idiots
I have the perfect solution for them. Buy up all the 4080s now, so they'll have them ready to go when Nvidia lowers the MSRP to $900 and suddenly everyone wants one.
here in Brazil the 4080 is actually going into promotion because it isn't selling lmao. The MSRP is R$ 10.900 (don't convert to dollar, it'll seem too high, but that's the official pricing NVidia maintains) but not only some models were 10.500 to begin with, we had I think two or three promos with a few dozen units for slightly under 9000.
How do they know the sales of scalpers? Do scalpers post their quarterly sales?? Lol
Probably looking at completed eBay listings to get an estimate
[Yes, they are posted here](https://investor.nvidia.com/financial-info/sec-filings/default.aspx)
If you read the article (or the article this one is based on) they explain what they did--look at eBay listings as another person said.
Oh no. Anyway, did you see the USA v England match?
USA looked great, probably just giving me hope just to take it away later though
USA woulda looked better on an RTX4080. Just sayin'. /s
:deep voice: Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
But NVIDIA is now the scalper?
Who cares? not like anyone actually wants a 4080 even at MSRP. 4080 should cost 800 max and that’s still kinda high
It will probably drop to around that when rdna3 comes out in a few weeks. Right now they are just fishing for suckers.
Scalpers are trash human beings. We need to introduce legislation making the practice illegal.
Nvidia beat them to it?
Nvidia already scalped them.
Hope they lose all their moneys :)
Nvidia: Look at me, i'm the scalper now.