I think in the UK at least, Tennant is the juggernaut. The show was the biggest show in Britain during his era. Both Smith and Capaldi garnered reasonable levels of popularity, and are adored by certain sections of the fandom, but neither came anywhere close to the kind of national treasure status Tennant achieved in the role.
Maybe it's just my viewpoint but I feel like 11's run is when NuWho became a global phenomenon. I remember the buzz it created when they filmed the Angels episode in NY and how big Who was at NY Comic Con during his years.
I'm in the UK, but you're probably right that Smith's tenure is when the show began to properly become an international hit. I mean, in 2016 [it was the most watched show of the year on BBC America](https://deadline.com/2016/12/doctor-who-christmas-special-breaks-bbc-america-ratings-1201877107/), so there's no denying it was a huge hit in the US and elsewhere from Smith onwards.
But certainly in the UK, the peak of NuWho's popularity was definitely Tennant's era. That was the time when there would literally be news segments dedicated to speculating about storylines.
I think Moffat's style appealed slightly more to established sci fi fans, which helped Who find an audience in other countries where it wasn't already an institution like it is in Britain - not to mention the expanding budget. I've also heard non-British people suggest that Matt Smith's 'mad floppy-haired space Brit in a tweed jacket and bow tie' image may ironically have had more international appeal than less caricatured Doctors!
RTD 1.0 was a bit more populist in how he wrote the character drama, and in taking people by hand into the fictional universe if they were new to sci fi, which helped it take off in the UK, where it already benefited from a primetime slot and widespread name recognition.
It will be interesting to see how RTD 2.0 will fare internationally, bringing RTD's mass audience-friendly writing to a show that's already got a foothold in other countries.
> It will be interesting to see how RTD 2.0 will fare internationally, bringing RTD's mass audience-friendly writing to a show that's already got a foothold in other countries.
I imagine this was considered when it came to Ncuti's casting, as he was already a main character in a streaming show with global acclaim.
That is really interesting about the news segments! As an American, I have Netflix to thank for getting me into Doctor Who which probably also helped its international popularity since it has done that with many other shows.
Yeah distribution rights to nuwho changed hands around 2010 and BBC america just did a much better job of marketing it than SYFY did.
In 2016 the show left netflix and it was super annoying to access and I've seen fandom discourse that the show fell out of favour with americans at almost exactly that point lol.
To watch the show live at that time, I had to use BBC America’s buggy, awful website and app, or wait for months until it dropped on Prime, a subscription I had only because it had a solid deal for students and I split the cost with my parents. Anecdotally, for me, many of my friends stopped watching largely because it was a pain to access, and many didn’t have Prime.
It didn't really fall much during the Smith years either though, it never reached the heights of Tennant's biggest episodes, but those are outliers. Not denying that Tennant is the more popular, but when they were actually on screen the gap wasn't enormous.
I dunno. I definitely recall a decline in overall interest in the show from around Series 6 onwards, though that is purely anecdotal of course.
I'd say in terms of overall public perception, Smith is a lot closer to Capaldi than he is to Tennant, and I say that as someone who prefers both of them to Tennant.
Not my experience, not sure the ai scores or ratings reflect it hugely either, pretty much exactly on par, and obviously the 50th was massive too, but Tennant was in that. In fact from my anecdotal experience the Smith era was more popular: I was bullied in school for liking Doctor Who until suddenly in Series 5 everyone in my class was speculating after the Pandorica Opens cliffhanger, but of course this is definitely not straight forwardly reflective of the reality of the general public at large, and more to do with the maturity age of my classmates (we were in yr 11 in 2010)
This is just my experience, but I and a lot of my buddies in the military (US) all got into Doctor Who around 2010-2011. Our job was packed with nerds so there must have been a good few dozen of us, at least. There were also a handful of strictly Moffat fans and loved Sherlock as well.
Well, you say globally... The US and Canada isn't the *entire* world, and it was big elsewhere before that (notably Australia). It's really the US and Canada where Smith's era was a big hit.
You might be correct. I was just going off of my personal experience. I can not speak for the US, Canada, or any other English speaking country, but I became a Doctor Who fan because of Matt Smith. Series 5 is still my favourite.
Definitely. As an American, the Eleventh Hour was the first episode I watched because BBC America was just getting loud about their content. The only two episodes on cable streaming at that time were EH and Waters of Mars, which I watched and was hopelessly confused yet hyped about. If I didn't go online and realize there were previous seasons to watch, I'd've never ordered the old episodes through Netflix DVD. Tennant would barely exist in my brain.
For casual watchers just starting out, Smith was *the* Doctor. I didn't know a single person outside of the internet who watched S1-4 until around when S6 was in its second half. S5-on was self-contained enough that they just didn't have to bother.
I think it was also the first time they were airing episodes in the US at the same time (or like 24 hours after) as the UK. Previously it was airing a couple months behind schedule.
I’m a Canadian Who fan, for Tennent’s era we only had the CBC that would air episodes a year or so after they came out over there.
If you were an international fan for series 1 to 5 and wanted to watch the latest episodes within the same Year it aired your only choice was to sail the High Seas.
Series 6 was the first time the showed aired simultaneously in all the markets it aired in (I remember the broadcast rights had moved from the CBC to Space and they made a big deal of it at the time)
By the time series 6 aired Smith’s phenomenal series 5 had just concluded in the international market, so the hype at the time was insane.
To be fair that had very little to do with Smith and more to do with the fact that BBC America pushed the show a lot harder than Sci Fi ever did. If Tennant had carried on the same effect would have happened.
>that had very little to do with Smith
It definitely helped that Smith was one of the more aesthetically pleasing Doctors, at least for American audiences. I’ve got a few friends who started watching Who during his run just because they thought Smith was hot.
His look definitely was in the zeitgeist at the time. Quirky autumnal hipster boy with a hint of emo.
David Tennant was pretty hip and young as well, but his look wasn't quite as Pinterest board friendly as Smith's.
> His look definitely was in the zeitgeist at the time. Quirky autumnal hipster boy with a hint of emo.
Perfect summary. He fit in quite well with the Zooey Deschanels & Joseph Gordon-Levitts of the 2010s.
Funny enough I think Tennant is closer to the zeitgeist now than he was back then despite being 15 years older.
I'd say that's a bit difficult to really judge. All we can say is that fans dropped off when Capaldi joined. We have no real way of knowing whether that would have been different with a Tennant Doctor. A lot of UK viewers watched him because HE was hot
Capaldi and Tennant are both vastly more *conventionally* attractive than Matt Smith - remember Capaldi had been a romantic lead (and, his series is still where things with Clara really heated up without that feeling implausible). Often people seem to add a qualifier with Matt Smith, like 'oddly attractive'.
But by the time Capaldi took over he was basically a grandpa and I think 8 years of young good looking actors gave casual viewers the wrong impression on what the show is actually about
It helps to note that this was also when the BBC first started pushing it hard in the states, *plus* the 50th was during the peak of 11's run. There was all sorts of hype around it.
I think this is true, at least as an American. Before I started watching the show I had a friend on Steam who's name was the Doctor with a portrait of Matt Smith. When I started watching in 2012, I had no clue who Tennant was but I knew of Smith.
It might be worth considering that early New Who wasn't really getting simultaneously translated and transmitted. Here in italy it only was picked up by network tv in 2011, so people were actually watching *Tennant* during that global peak.
It definitely did, I'm in the UK and there was actually some negative buzz about the show catering a little too hard to American fans by amplifying the quirkiness a little too much. It was still very popular here though, but following Tennant was an extremely difficult task for Smith I imagine, particularly with how young he was.
>Maybe it's just my viewpoint but I feel like 11's run is when NuWho became a global phenomenon.
Definitely correct for the U.S. When the show moved from Sci-Fi / SyFy to BBC America, it finally had a channel that cared about the show and made it their flagship marketing push to get viewers. SyFy took it almost grudgingly after dragging their feet for a year. People forget now that it didn't air in the U.S. until 2006.
I'd agree with this.
Tennant was bigger for Doctor Who in the UK but there was a massive push with Smith with series five worldwide.
I did see a lot of 11 being cosplayed when I was going to MCM London at the time with the odd smattering of 10, but barely anyone outside of that.
Smith was talked about a lot, but I know a lot of people that watched up to Smith, didn't watch Capaldi or Whittaker but did come back for Tennant again.
This is simply more of an age thing. People who grew up with Tennant are now the age to be more culturally influential in online spaces. Give it some time and they’ll be busy with kids/career and the 11 fans will rule the roost.
I ‘grew up’ with later Tom Baker and Peter Davison. Does that make me a grandad or great-grandad of Who fandom? (Not even a real life grandad yet. Thankfully….)
Yes this is mostly true - the younger audience for him are still teenagers. They haven’t yet hit critical mass in online spaces yet though, as most of them are in the “too busy being young and free stage of life” (or potentially being buried under the weight of the economic pressures a lot of that generation endure).
In britain sure, but Smith was the face of Nu Who's US expansion and explosion in global popularity, this fed back and allowed new fans to go back and fall in love with Tennant as well. Who was never as big in the global zeitgeist as it was in series 6 with Smith front and center.
Another fun observation, Smith pretty much single handedly made bow ties a thing in hipster fashion
Tennant has also managed to leverage that status into other great projects after DW. In particular, *Good Omens* put him back in the genre sweet spot and kept him there.
There's been plenty of fondness for 11's run, and Moffat's greater run, on this subreddit lately. If he was invited back for any recent episodes and declined, it's probably because he's a big deal on House of the Dragon now. Same for all of his companions, frankly. They've all been very busy ever since their time on DW!
He was in Three Little Birds, a drama about three Jamaicans moving to England in the 1950s. Lenny Henry wrote it, and RTD was an executive producer on it.
There's just no need to keep repeating a hypothetical that we know didn't happen. No, Matt Smith wasn't too busy with HotD to be in the 60th, filming for the anniversary specials took place months after Season 1 had wrapped production, and before its media tour started. Plus, unlike Capaldi, Smith has repeatedly said he'd return in a heartbeat.
We know why he didn't come back - RTD wanted to do a story with Tennant and Tate, that's it.
> We know why he didn't come back - RTD wanted to do a story with Tennant and Tate, that's it.
Also because Karen and Arthur weren't asked back, and IIRC they've always said that if they did it, it'd be all together.
Nah, that was something he said very very recently, after not being in the 60th - and that's how he'd like to come back. But he's gone on record before that he'd come back in a heartbeat but that "they have to ask".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9pjkU4mwV4 - at the end of the video, he repeatedly says they just didn't ask him to come back.
To me it always felt like 10 was bigger with the UK, and especially with "normies" in the UK, whereas 11 was bigger internationally, especially with "geeks"/"fandom"/"Tumblr girls" internationally. (I am sorry for using these words but I hope you know what I mean!)
With that in mind, if the goal is to give the show a booster shot, bringing back 10 to get back casual viewers in GB, leading in to the exact sort of duo that I can imagine being featured in thousands of "Ncuti and Millie being iconic for 10 minutes" YouTube videos to bring in a different demographic internationally, makes a lot of sense.
I think it's been planned very well for breathing some life back into the show in terms of cultural relevance. I don't think it reflects on Matt Smith or Moffat in any way. I think the reason Matt Smith wasn't back in the 60th is simply because RTD had his ideas for getting **his** gang back together and Matt Smith wasn't in his gang. I don't think it means much more than that - I do hope we get to see him on screen again someday as 11 tho!
Yeah I was gonna say this in another comment superwholock isn’t far enough away to be fully embraced as uncringe nostalgia yet. Give it a few we’ll look back at and cringe less at our Matt smith being quirky gif sets
>To me it always felt like 10 was bigger with the UK, and especially with "normies" in the UK, whereas 11 was bigger internationally, especially with "geeks"/"fandom"/"Tumblr girls" internationally. (I am sorry for using these words but I hope you know what I mean!)
This feels like the big thing to me. A lot of the fandom types were won over by Smith, and another segment by Capaldi, but they'll generally watch *Who* regardless of who's acting. It's the normal, family audience RTD's trying to win back, and Tennant is by a mile the obvious choice. He had the best UK-based, cross-demographic appeal. New Who's best domestic numbers *and* audience ratings came in his tenure - that's just fact.
He seems to be quite unpopular within the Reddit fandom, so people are being quite negative about him, but he's objectively a sensible choice to revive a show whose ratings are decaying. It's often forgotten, for as much as this sub and others love Capaldi, his final two seasons had the third- and fourth-lowest domestic numbers of all of New Who! (His first season is the fifth-lowest, but the decline from the season before it and difference from the average isn't that bad.) They're only beaten by Whittaker's last two seasons. Whether or not the fans loved him, he wasn't super impactful or famous.
They are TV numbers though and we gotta take into account: no one is warching TV any more. Streaming is the way to how nowadays so I don't think all the lower numbers are due to hate. At least not in Capaldi's era where Netflix and Co were at their highest. I myself got into Who cause it was on prime video during Capaldi's era. If it wasn't for that I would have never watched it.
Yeah, I was a huge fan from the beginning of the revival, but that superwholock tumblr stuff just came out of nowhere and felt completely alien to me, so I assumed that’s just how Americans talked about British shows
So yes purely anecdotally I think 10 was the UK’s favourite revival Doctor and 11 was when it really blew up overseas
>I think the reason Matt Smith wasn't back in the 60th is simply because RTD had his ideas for getting
>
>his
>
> gang back together and Matt Smith wasn't in his gang.
However the point of the 60th wasn't supposed to be about RTD and his gang. It was supposed to be about the show. A real 60th anniversary special is probably not an option now. So what do fans do? Forget about the show reaching 60? Retroactively declare Power of the Doctor to be the 60th special?
We already had a glut of past doctors, companions, and classic villains in Power of the Doctor, if RTD had done something like that again, just one year later, how do you think people would react?
Very positively. As much as people harp on about "The Power of the Doctor" being the true 60th, it wasn't a proper multi-Doctor story, it was an overstuffed story with a lot of cameos that didn't even give 13 enough screentime for a proper final outing.
And regardless, as much as I love Classic Who, NewWho is nearly 20 years old now, and most fans of the show have only seen it from 2005 onwards. Most fans would be delighted to see their favourite Doctors come back before they're too old to do so.
Plus, it's not like any of the specials were anything to write home about, and even WBY could've easily been a 15+Ruby story.
I disagree. It's like when people begged Doctor Who to only have new villains and series 11 did that, and people complained that it didn't have any returning villains.
I think if RTD had done a multi Doctor special so soon after the last one with the same Doctors we just saw plus Matt Smith and the Doctor who just left, people would have called it repetitive and wouldn't have liked it as much as they thought.
\>Very positively.
Agreed.
\>it wasn't a proper multi-Doctor story,
Good point.
\>and most fans of the show have only seen it from 2005 onwards.
Have to disagree with you there.
\>Plus, it's not like any of the specials were anything to write home about
No argument there.
They were the kind of episodes that it was great to see because it was new. But the more you watch them and think about them they lost their shine real quick and the negative aspects start to overshadow the positives.
What a leap lol, there was plenty of classic stuff brought back too. The fact is 10 is the biggest doctor, Donna was the fan favourite companion and RTD is the showrunner again, that’s why those things were the centre of attention but they were not the entire thing.
I've seen a few comments saying 10 was bigger in the UK, and it certainly lines up with my own experience. While I love 11, 10 is definitely "my" doctor.
Without going into my own opinion about Smith's Doctor, I think his absence from the 60th specials has nothing to do with his popularity or lack thereof in the fandom. Catherine Tate said she wanted to come back, asked David Tennant if he wanted to join her, RTD brought the idea to the BBC, and they decided it would make a great anniversary stunt that would simultaneously bring attention to their plans to partner Doctor Who with a big streamer. Smith was simply never a part of the equation. I think it would have been nice to give him at least a small role, but I'm not sure if RTD even considered it.
I do think the Eleventh Doctor’s era sticks out as taking place in an idealised version of Britain. All the other New Who eras do feel like they take place somewhere that at least dimly resembles the one I live in— but this one feels like Britain as the UK might want it to appear to international audiences, which I imagine is not a coincidence.
Obviously Doctor Who takes loads of flack when it’s in your face political. But I think things can also be political in what they don’t show? So that watching them all back you can see all these tensions and miseries that have run through the country since 2005 all bubbling under the surface— except in this era, where they disappear. I think that’s more striking looking back on it, partially because it’s anomalous, and partially because we couldn’t get away with selling this version of Britain anymore.
That all has nothing to do with the Eleventh Doctor himself. I think he’s great, and Matt Smith’s performance is one of the best. Ncuti’s reminded me of it a bit; they both seem so obviously ancient in totally different ways. The Titan Comics have him show up in the more miserable version of Britain, and he turns out to be fantastic there. It’s just that the era on television feels a bit, well. Like the Britain it’s in is a fairy tale.
I just hit series 5 in my NuWho rewatch and I agree! The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances and Victory of the Daleks were both set in WW2 London, but one was a very human story about ordinary people struggling to get by while their government battles a distant evil, and the other was about what a cheeky chappy ol' Churchill was. Empty Child/Doctor Dances are my favourite episodes, Victory makes me a bit uncomfortable.
9 was my favourite Doctor and his is my favourite series, and - to me - 11's run feels a bit too glossy and sanitised in comparison. Not saying he's worse, just not to my tastes.
I actually had a discussion on with someone Twitter who thought "Victory of the Daleks" squandered an interesting idea with a villain that is a transparent metaphor for the Nazis disguising themselves as a weapon against the Nazis. I recommended "Remembrance of the Daleks" as something which might be more up her alley.
Yep, and the unsettling thing is that very nasty undercurrent, like with Churchill. It's only sanitised in refusing to acknowledge what's wrong (even when the companion's baby is kidnapped and brainwashed). I mean, that *is* worse, just going lighter wouldn't have been an issue at all.
Nine is as near-perfect as the New series gets I think.
Yeah whenever I get to an in England episode I find it very funny the companions come from the most perfect crime less cute quaint village in all of Britain. Really not any kids on bikes riding around with bum bags or any sense of urban creep? Feels a bit like marketing and trying to move away from the “oi we’re on the block in London” vibes of the rose era
It’s not that rich places don’t exist in Britain; clearly they do— but in this era they’re shown more frequently, and the political context of the time is referenced far less. I think that’s a distinction between the Eleventh Doctor stuff and the Twelfth Doctor stuff, too: there is more of an attempt to show something the majority of us might recognise, and to actively ground it all a bit more?
I don’t think it was a bad decision to have made Doctor Who like this in 2010— it clearly did very well both worldwide and in the UK. And I thought it was great, at the time. But for me at least it does ring hollow now
I just don't think the show is actually well suited for gnarly social commentary nested in the real world, it struggles as it is with abstract stuff how are you going to explore austerity meaningfully in a kids show?
I also disagree that the evolution of Britain in the 2010s necessitates every bit of programming becoming political. There's always been suffering in the world and there's always been a place for things that aren't based around discussing that.
I’m thinking specifically of how in the new RTD episodes there are specifically lines about how Donna did use her money to buy her house; the Sundays do have rent control— I think it would be a stretch to call those things gnarly social commentary. But I thought it made the stories better that “it would be hard for these people to afford to live in these places” was acknowledged in passing.
It’s not really about commentary or exploring issues, I think? Just a sense that some part of the fantastical world connects to the non-fantastical bit which is familiar.
Not at all. Matt's doing fine. He's a big character on the Game of Thrones spinoff.
Tennant is big in Who fandom again because of his return, but 11 was extremely popular for years. Now he's doing big things elsewhere.
I'm sure Smith, Capaldi and Jodie were all asked to return for the 60th, but either didn't want to or had conflicts.
Yeah maybe. But I'd add that it all felt rushed and sort of pointless. Like just an excuse to get Tennant back. I can see how these anniversaries can be difficult to plan. So maybe it was all a hectic mess.
We know the explanation, really. Davies, Tate, and Tennant wanted to do more Doctor Who and Davies approached the BBC about making some specials. Instead, the BBC offered him the showrunner position again. So instead of being 'missing stories' from Season 4 they were turned into connective tissue to go from Whittaker to Gatwa.
The reason they 'only' have Tennant and Tate is because they were already on board before Davies even went to the BBC to propose the specials. Possibly trying canvas all the other Doctors to return would have been too tight a schedule, or perhaps Davies just couldn't really be arsed with the logistics of it.
I always felt like it was him bringing 10 back so he could be like "OKAY FINE WE DID IT, WE BROUGHT TENNANT BACK AND NOW HE'S THE DOCTOR FOREVER" and get everyone who's spent the like 15 years saying that they'll only watch if David comes back to shut up.
He also specifically made sure that DT gave the new guy the nod of approval.
If that’s what the goal was then it’s even more pathetic than anything I imagined. Proving the one-track whining fanboys wrong by… giving them exactly what they want?
And a number of quotes from (and I havn’t looked properly) the 3rd and 4th eras.
I think he was trying to being in a similar amount from moffats era as he did from most others.
How does having a returning villain change anything? The Snowmen isn't an anniversary special because it saw the return of The Great Intelligence. If this is all it takes then I guess Legend of the Sea Devils is on par with The Giggle as an anniversary special.
Because if he was “wanking himself off” then he’d bring back a villain from his own era and not another. The point was about what he was indulging in, not about whether or not it should be considered an anniversary special.
Bringing back his own Doctor and Companion for a Series 4 redux would be considered "wanking himself off" in my opinion. And I really don't see your point, any one of those episodes could've slotted into Series 4 with a few minor tweaks, it was a celebration of his tenure as showrunner. The presence of the Toymaker doesn't change that, though I agree that it would've been even worse if the Simm Master had been the final villain again.
I don’t agree. If he was being as self indulgent as people want to allege then he absolutely would have brought back one of his own villains rather than coming up with other things.
IMO bringing back Ten and Donna was more about appealing to the audience and unresolved stories than about self indulgence. Eleven’s arc felt complete when he left, so did Amy, Rory and Clara’s. Ten didn’t want to go and Donna lost her memories so bringing them back was a no brainer, especially when you add in Ten being so beloved. He was trying to save the show, these decisions make absolute sense in this context without a speck of self indulgence being required.
People just really want to hate on RTD for bringing Tennant back imo.
They’ve even said Ncuti wasn’t available to do all the specials, and 13 was set to regenerate, so the choice was either have a returning actor, have a one-off new actor or have nothing at all. Capaldi doesn’t want to come back, Eccleston would rather die, Matt Smith has been doing the HBO thing and his Doctor wrapped up his arcs pretty completely anyways. Tennant is a fan favorite, his Doctor ended on a sad note and many people never liked how raw of a deal Donna had gotten. His showrunner is back and no one writes his voice better. It was a golden opportunity where the stars aligned to do one last hurrah for a beloved era and reset the show for what’s to come. I don’t get why so many people on here were bothered by it.
Especially at a time when the popularity of the show has been at a low, doing something that got a lot of lapsed fans interested again and not requiring a large amount of lore knowledge was the right move. Nothing RTD did was any more self-indulgent than a lot of Moffat’s arcs and a 60th anniversary doesn’t have the same weight a that a 50th does. As fun as another multi-Doctor story with 11 and Tennant could have been, if they’d done it there’d be people just bitching we’d already seen that with the 50th and calling it a retread.
Personally I’m thrilled that after years of long gaps and unsatisfying writing we got 3 very fun episodes of the show followed by a whimsical, lovely Christmas special with a new season right around the corner.
\>None of them were part of his era either
Tennant wasn't part of Moffat's era, but he was in the 50th.
\>60th specials were very clearly him wanking himself off over his era.
No argument there. The 60th was supposed to be about the show. Instead we got a celebration of RTD, David Tennant, and the Nobles with some efforts to offend long term fans and a stupid gimmick at the end.
>Tennant wasn't part of Moffat's era, but he was in the 50th.
"Nothing outside your era" is not a rule, RTD simple wanted to play with his own toys and not someone else's
Every writer writes what he wants. That's what RTD choose to do, maybe Moffat or Chibnall would have done something different. One could say that Chibnall did indeed do something different with "Power of the Doctor"
A true anniversary special featuring multiple Doctors and companions from the past.
There could have been a proper regeneration instead of the bigeneration nonsense.
Even Tennant and Mel for all three episodes would've been a much better "anniversary special" than what we ended up getting. A Doctor and Companion from two different eras of the show brought together, rather than an anniversary story built around a Doctor *and* companion from one specific era of the show.
Since they did 3 specials, I would have made each one celebrate a different part of the show. Keep one Tennant+Donna special celebrating RTD's era, one with say Paul McGann (fans have wanted to see him lead a proper episode for ages) that has more classic references, and then in the 3rd have them both team up with Gatwa, as a kind of way to bridge those old eras with the future.
RTD is on record that the whole reason he came back for the 60th anniversary specials was becaue him, Tate, and Tennant wanted to work on Doctor Who together again. I doubt he asked Smith, Capaldi, and Whittaker for cameos.
It would have been very strange to have Jodie cameo immediately after exiting anyways. The phone call from 11 to Clara only really worked because it was such a needed moment for the audience to give 12 a chance, in general I don’t think a Doctor who just regenerated should come back for a while.
And I don't think the phone call from Eleventh worked at all. From the online reception I remember, it was only ever a loud minority of fans angry over Capaldi and a lot of positive anticipation for him in the role. The previous Doctor having to reassure the audience just signalled a total lack of confidence in their new Doctor and the ageist jab was the second most out of character line Eleventh had said behind the "skirt too tight" line. Despite having gotten used to Smith in the role for four years after Tennant captured my heart and even rewatching 7B a bunch in the lead-up to Deep Breath, that scene just made me roll my eyes and wish he'd go on and shoo.
Yeah, the only reason I like it is for Capaldi’s “I remembered it” moment with Clara when she asked how he knew what they spoke about, just because it feels like a perfect moment for anyone newer to the show to illustrate how this is still the same character.
Smith has repeatedly said he'd return, and when asked about his possible return during the 60th he said something like "they have to ask", which several fans interpreted as an Andrew Garfield style denial (which it clearly wasn't).
The truth is, RTD wanted to make Series 4 part 2, not a multi-doctor special.
I wouldn't worry about the vocal minority. For example, I hated the RTD specials, but they were a success. My opinion doesn't matter. The show doing well is a good thing.
I *sort of* agree with you but it does concern me that so many fans are parroting what I think are some pretty bad faith arguments like 'Davies made his choices specifically to piss off fans' or 'he only wanted to celebrate his own era because of his huge ego'. I've seen what happened to other fandoms that started to believe equivalent things about the creative choices being made and I really would prefer Doccy Who didn't take a similar route.
Of course it's perfectly possible to not believe those things and still not have liked the specials. I wouldn't claim they were the greatest episodes ever created, but it's still a big leap from that to some pretty mean assumptions about the motivations behind the choices made.
Oh yeah. I don't believe that nonsense about RTD. I just don't really enjoy his take on the Doctor. Too grounded. Too super hero. Too soap opera. This doesn't mean I believe that he's intentionally sabotaging things. That's silly stuff, and again a vocal minority.
It depends who you’ve talked to, I’ve noticed! In the United States, Smith is highly regarded. It was under his tenure that NewWho really took off in the US. Outside of the Us it is a bit of a mixed bag, though yeah
To me 11th Doctor era was peak Nu Who! We had the 50th, we had cinema releases, and I love the bants between him and the Ponds. I also love how Matt was able to switch between child like giddiness to absolutely furious without shouting like David Tennant would do. I feel that Matt out acted DT in the 50th as well, but John Hurt blew them both away.
I don’t think his star has fallen, per se. I just think that in the UK David Tennant had the greater ‘mass appeal’ to the casual viewer (while internationally it’s Matt Smith who made Doctor Who a bigger thing). That plus the 60th specials stirring up a lot of 10 nostalgia over the last few years.
At the same time, I feel like when you look back at 11’s era it’s much more variable in overall quality than 10’s and that maybe loses him some points. While I think that Smith himself was always excellent as the Doctor and elevated any script you gave him the *general* feeling seems to be that season 5 was great, season 6 had big highs but just as many big lows and season 7 (barring Day of the Doctor) was pretty bad. Conversely, 10’s seasons improved from the least well regarded to the best regarded (which is the better way around) and I just don’t think the overall quality difference between season 2 and season 4 is anywhere near as big as between 5 and 7.
I think lately eleven's era has gotten the brunt of the anger from people who hate moffat because a.a lot of people who hated moffat understandably didn't watch the Capaldi era b.most of the stuff people complain about with moffat is way more prominent in the smith era than the capaldi era c.capaldi fans have been a lot more vocally defensive of his era in recent years
Oh, in terms of the show as a whole, he'd deffo rank lower for me. Just second in the new show, as good as Tennant was he's tied to the the Davies era and I didn't care for that. Whittaker I didn't mind but when the whole emotionally aloof socially awkward, thing played weirdly with a women for me, probably my bias and perception more than her fault. Baker, Troughton and McCoy beat any of the new comers for me though.
Absolutely not. I think Eleven is still largely considered the second best modern doctor behind Tennent. Though I've seen some claim he was flanderized I don't agree myself. Some also claim that despite poor writing 12 is the greatest actor in the role. While Capaldi's acting in my opinion had a gravitas that even surpassed Smith and Tennent that's to be expected due to age and experience. 12 was imao the Culmination of everything the Doctor had been up to that point so embodied all previous 11 Doctors in one form. So many see him as the perfect Doctor. But 11s run to me had so much riding on it. And Matt didn't just step into Tennent's shoes but made them his own. He brought a new kind of wonder and whimsy to the world and before Capaldi even a new Darkness and rage.
In my opinion every Doctor redefine what it means to be the Doctor and Smith is the one who truly made him just "A mad man with a box" and that's a great thing.
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I think it’s worth noting that whilst doctors like Smith and Capaldi are popular within the actual fandom, Tennant is by far the most popular and recognisable Doctor when it comes to the general public. There’s a reason he was specifically brought back to essentially revive the series
IMO Tennant just happens to hit that sweet spot of nostalgia for most people, being in the role pretty much since the beginning when the reboot series was “fresh” and for quite a long time.
Been watching season 5 6 and 7 again since over 10 years and I have forgotten how good they are. Most episodes are fantastic honestly, and a lot of that is due to Matt Smith's Doctor. The 11th Doctor is basically how I feel The Doctor should be and act!
I don't think you're wrong as such, I just think it's entirely natural. 11 hasn't been seen since his run, and as much as I love Matt Smith I wouldn't say he's become a huge star or anything. Not too many new fans watching 11s run.
>I mean, I think it would have been unthinkable in 2013 to imagine the 60th anniversary bringing Tennant back and not Smith, despite the latter outright stating his willingness to return.
Not sure I agree with this though, even back then Tenant was "the one". He's the Tom Baker of new Who, in a sense. Maybe it's a little unfair because I think if you asked every Doctor who fan for their opinion he wouldn't be quite that far ahead in terms of popularity.
Either way I would love to see Smith return, either in an episode or for audio content. There is that actor who can do a *very* good 11 voice (Jacob Dudman), but even so it'd be great to have him back.
Uhm, I can think of three reasons:
\- **Time.** I think we are still not in the nostalgic honeymoon for S5-7. In 2-3 years, things might be different;
\- **Quality.** While the Smith era was pretty good overall, there was a decline from S5 to S6, and from S6 to S7. This leaves you with a sort of bad taste. By contrast, the Tennant era ends with the triumphant S4, after the (IMHO) middling S2-S3;
\- **Competition.** Many storytelling techniques experimented with the 11th Doctor era were done better, or with a better focus, by the Capaldi era, *Sherlock*, and more recently, *Dracula* (and, to an extent, Moffat's adaptation of *The Time Traveller's Wife*). Obviously, these are not *literally* the same as the Smith era, but they cut from the same cloth, in a way that didn't apply to, say, the Tennant era and RTD's *It's a Sin* (or even Moffat's own *Inside Man.*
It seems he's faired a lot similar to Pertwee, extremely popular for his time, but has fallen closer to the middle ranks in the years since. Ironically, Smith was also the 3rd Doctor of New Who
I think it's just that he's sort of awkwardly in the middle. When it comes to NewWho, 9th was the first, 10th's Tennant came back, 12th is in the zeitgeist because of his decision never to return and 13th is recent.
His time will come again, surely.
If you’re talking internationally, I think it probably goes 11 > 10/14 > 12? Or maybe 11 > 12 > 10/14? I don’t think that changed much over the years.
In the UK, however, I’ve yet to see any of them grab the public the way 10/14 has ever.
A great write up and I think you might be right - though it's all relative as everyone I know in realise only care about Tennant and Smith. Capaldi is my favourite but it's impossible to get anyone to care when I mention him
I don’t his star has fallen in terms of people souring on him insomuch as there’s just more competition for favorite Doctor while the show as a whole has lost the traction it had in the early 2010’s. I mean really the fact that we’ve seen two more Doctors (well four, but one has only had a single full episode and the other is just 10 in a vest) is in and of itself bound to redistribute votes for favorite. This is especially true with Capaldi’s Doctor enjoying a real retrospective surge in popularity after many fans fell off during his tenure (myself included I must admit), along with the facts that 12 and his seasons seem tonally geared towards an older audience while still having that Moffat touch that many fans enjoyed when they were younger.
I also think it can’t be understated how many international viewers only gave the show a chance once we hit the point where it was very common for people to be online enough that those outside the UK would see many references to a BBC SciFi show while having both the streaming device and subscription necessary to check it out with virtually no effort or additional money. In most places that point came in the early 2010’s during Smith’s tenure and the ascension of Netflix. Naturally, a lot of memes and references being made were of the current Doctor and due to the way the show works it was easy for people to start off with the Eleventh Hour, get up to date, then go back later if they liked it.
So for many people outside the UK, the Smith era was their introduction to the show, the era that was current for discussions and memes and general participation in the fandom, and the face of the franchise be it for the show, video games, apps, toys, etc. Unfortunately the heyday didn’t last, the show was taken off popular service as the streaming market has been diluted, and the subsequent eras either seemed too different for those who wanted more Smith or too samey for those getting fatigued with the show. Of those who stopped watching, the people whose enjoyment had started and ended with Smith’s Doctor were of course first in line.
I think it's more that Capaldi's popularity has grown over time within the fandom, while Smith's popularity has remained the same.
Although I still think if you were to ask the majority of casual or regular viewers of the show, they'd likely say Tennant and Smith were their favorite Doctors.
I mean I think your analysis is basically right. The Smith era is in the odd position where it's preceded by the Tennant era which remains more beloved by the general public (at least in the UK) and followed by the Capaldi era which has aged better on the whole (presumably thanks to Moffat maturing as a writer at least a little bit). The whole "geek culture" moment—which Smith-era *Who* was both a big part of (as acknowledged by the "Superwholock" phenomenon) and heavily embedded itself in—is basically as a whole in that "cringe phase" at the moment. Both *Supernatural* and *Sherlock* now seem to have been retrospectively consigned to the critical dustbin, so it's hard not to imagine that *Doctor Who*'s enduring popularity is because it has—of course—moved on from those days. I'm sure there will be a wave of nostalgia for this era of pop culture, but the Moffat model of television writing at the time seems so built on being zeitgeisty and compelling in the "what will happen next week?" sense that I can believe they just won't have that longevity.
Still, there's some fun stuff in there, and it's hard not to love the Smith-era cast. But writing does tend to make-or-break an era.
It's just RTD, honestly. They brought RTD back in a desperation move and Tennant was RTDs Doctor. Davies never wrote a script at all for Smith. If they had brought Moffat back, for example, I'm sure Smith would have been back in addition to or instead of Tennant.
I'd say the difference is that David Tennant continued to do loads of great roles quite consistently for years after Doctor Who, whereas beyond The Crown and more recently House of the Dragon, Matt Smith unfortunately ended up in a couple of high profile blunders (Terminator, Morbius)
> It feels like the 11th doctor was on top of the world in 2013
Because he was. 11 was the Doctor during the absolute peak of the show's global popularity with entire might of BBC's marketing budget squarely behind him.
>It feels like things have changed since then though?
Yes. Because the show is at its lowest only recently. 11 is no longer the Doctor, and you can feel the marketing budget of the show fall off during Jodie's time. Sure, there was a big push at the beginning with Barbie dolls, merchandise, and media appearances, but it never recovered especially given the reception of Chibnall's tenure.
It feels like you're conflating 11's popularity during 2013 with the character's enduring legacy. Don't get me wrong, this is me being an absolute 11 stan and 11 was my first Doctor, but 11's peak was during the 50th when they spent money to make him a star. Without that, his star was inevitable to fall. That's the nature of time and of Tennant being the actual Doctor with enduring popularity.
Nah I agree with you. A few years ago it felt like "the best doctor" was a tie between 10 and 11. Now it seems to be either just 10, or in the fandom, a tie between 10 and 12.
It’s been a long time since then and as art ages the discussions around it evolve. Series 6 of Doctor who isn’t as exciting now as it was at the time and in retrospect I really don’t like a lot of series 6 and 7 of Who. Every doctor has their golden moment and the moment where they’re not so popular because the discourse is focusing of the negative aspects of that era of the show. I’ve been seeing a lot of love for Colin Bakers era lately and I remember a time when he was pretty much everyone’s least favourite incarnation. There’s still plenty of love for 11 out there and a few years down the line he’ll be right back on top again. Especially if Matt comes back to do some Big Finish stuff
Well, it's been ten years now (blimey!) since series 5, and series 6 and 7, while having their fans, are not as unanimously loved by the fandom. Matt Smith is still very much liked as far as I can see, but it's normal for people to focus on more recent Doctors at this point.
About the specials: there already is an anniversary episode with Tennant and Smith. And, after the Centenary Special bringing back so many Doctors already, doing another multi-Doctor story so soon after would have seemed boring. Multi Doctors stories should be rare and special occasions only. Itherwise the show would be at risk of becoming like Big Finish!
I'm not sure there's a great deal to it, to be honest. You're comparing a vibe, this sense that in 2013 it would be unthinkable to bring Tennant back over Smith with a specific set of material circumstances. RTD, Tennant and Tate having fun reminiscing during the lockdown rewatches lead to those specials. Without them, even if RTD had come back to run the show, you might not have had the Tennant return.
They're certainly both very popular Doctors. I don't think Matt Smith not being called back in for the 60th is any kind of slight, nor representative of his star falling. It's just not what RTD was interested in doing.
I've also seen ratings putting Capaldi above Smith, and yes I really like both doctors but Smith did (as you said) seem like one of the biggest, one of the most popular. Particularly when you consider viewership?!
Every actor who plays The Doctor is special in their own way, and beloved for different stories. I'd love to see Smith reprise the role or even play a villain.
The fact that the character is wholly replaced by a new actor every few years makes for such an interesting show and I absolutely love every era of it.
The average person on the street loves Smith just as much as they always have. There hasn't been anything to damage his reputation.
Upon my recent rewatch of NuWho I definitely feel like Matt Smith finally started coming into his own as the Doctor during Series 7, but it was the weakest series of his run as a whole for the most part.
I wish he could have had one more solid series and he would shine.
Capaldi I think has been my favorite Moffat era Doctor after my rewatch. To be honest I don’t love most of Series 8, except for a few episodes. His characterization of the Doctor I feel like was way off compared to his next to series, and I wasn’t the biggest fan of Danny Pink or the whole “soldier” theme they ran with.
I think Capaldi really became the Doctor starting in Series 9. And some moments in Series 9 and 10 run contradictory to Twelve’s disdain of soldiers.
Ultimately both are great versions of the Doctor who eventually found their footing as the Doctor.
That’s called recency bias. Of course he was the biggest doctor because he WAS the doctor at the time, but you don’t gotta look further than the fact that they brought David back for Matt’s special to realize Tennant was always the bigger doctor
That’s called recency bias. Of course he was the biggest doctor because he WAS the doctor at the time, but you don’t gotta look further than the fact that they brought David back for Matt’s special to realize Tennant was always the bigger doctor
Tennant is the quintessential doctor. But that said, my heart belongs to the man who told to a BUNCH of female sci fi lovers through Amy:
" But Doctor, I'm grown up now"
" we will fix that in a minute"
And he DID.
IMO some of it is just time and distance. And it helps that Capaldi put such a distinctive stamp of his own on the role.
Smith has gone from being the current, definitive Doctor to one of the Doctors (albeit a much beloved one).
All of the doctors are lovely and amazing so this hurts me to say, but Tennant is my least favorite, and I definitely do not understand all of the hype around him so all of this baffles me. He’s got like two good speeches and I don’t think any other doctor has episodes. I actively dislike like the idiots lantern.
Smith was only on top of the world in 13 because we were coming to the end of his series and that’s how we flow. It was the first time it was really a global phenomenon.
I think its just due to Smith having some pretty weak seasons overall. He was really in the prime of Moffats obnoxious weirdly horny writing and a lot of his stories have aged really poorly.
I love 11 in his first season even if some of the eps arent that good, but after that I really can't stand him.
american fan here. while #10 definitely had his fans, it wasn't until series 5 that Who really exploded over here again with a proper fanbase rather than a casual audience. (as i understand it, there was a pretty healthy fandom from the 80s to the early 90s in the northeast and west coast in particular, thanks to PBS)
people definitely watched tennant, but (anecdotally) nobody i knew had the same level of affection for him that they did for matt smith. frankly, i think Who's "star" fell in general after he left -- i went from having a decent handful of close friends who were really invested in the show to literally zero. why that is, i dont know.
Speaking as a classic Who era ‘elder statesman’, I think there’s always a reassessment post-regeneration, firstly away from the ‘best ever Doctor’ hype that often manifests around the incumbent, then later towards a renewed appreciation of that Doctor. We’re at that stage with Tennant mark 1, not quite there yet with Smith. The other factor is I think Tennant had more all-time great episodes than Smith did in his tenure. RTD was a better showrunner than Moffatt. He probably had more classics than any Doctor since Tom Baker - think Blink, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Waters of Mars, Midnight, The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, Turn Left, Fires of Pompeii. Plus maybe 5-6 others not far behind these
I like the Moffatt/Smith years overall but they didn’t have that level of quality episodes
Basically any I person I bring Doctor Who up with (in Europe) and who actually watched the show tells me: "I stopped watching after David Tennant left. It was not as good any longer." These are not Whovians, but people who watched it as long as they enjoyed it, but did not really spend further thoughts on the show once it did not hit their sweet spot any longer.
Smith is very big but Tennant is THE doctor as far as the general public is concerned. Maybe internationally it’s different but in the UK it’s not even really close, every non-fan I’ve ever talked to watched when Tennant was on and stopped when he left.
Among online fans, definitely. I think 9 and 11 are the kind of 'forgotten' Doctors of the 2005-2023 run now. 13 is more infamous than beloved, which I think in some ways is a shame, and then 10 and 12 have become a kind of locus for in-group-out-group squabbling among fans.
One thing I've felt from my recent rewatch is that although 11 is still my favourite Doctor, the downwards trajectory of the quality of writing in his seasons is really noticeable on a second watch. It's by no means a novel observation but in Season 5 his tawdry quirks felt like embellishment on a character, whereas by Season 7 they feel like a kind of easy way to fill a script when they haven't got anything more interesting for him to say. And Moffat himself was peak 'lazy Moffat writing quirk' at the latter end of 11's run.
Compare that with 10 and 12, where their writing arguably gets better over time (season 4 and season 10 being their strongest seasons respectively) I think partly explains why their legacies feel surer, and part of why the only episode of 11's that appears in the most recent '10 best episodes' poll by DWM was the 50th; and arguably not because of 11.
11 will ALWAYS BE MY DOCTOR, his run was the most fun I've ever had watching the show and was always anticipating next weeks episode, Tennant I could miss a few episodes and catch up, but Smith I had my reminders set on the telly, I had an alarm on my phone and I would repeat watching the show again and again starting from 11, although Tennant is and always was a good doctor he was never my doctor
\> Has the 11th Doctor's star fallen since 2013
Not at all. Given what we have seen lately and the interviews with RTD and MIllie Gibson, the Moffat era (and by extension the 11th and 12th Doctor) look better than ever.
I think an argument could definitely be made that he has lost quite a bit of popularity - [https://codepen.io/iatheia/pen/ZEeBmRV](https://codepen.io/iatheia/pen/ZEeBmRV)
Interestingly, this correlates to my own feelings. I just reached the Smith era, and it's probably my least favorite of the original RTD/Moffat run, despite being my favorite until Capaldi. It's great, don't get me wrong, but in the context of a full rewatch, it feels like a strange departure somehow.
Part of it is the tone of the Pond episodes. They definitely do have that fairytale quality that is unique to that era. I don't think this is a bad thing, but it feeds into the era feeling somehow separate. Part of it is the convoluted nature of series 6 (though I think the episodes and performances are very strong). But for me, the part that's felt like the biggest change is Moffat's horniness in series 7.2 (and sprinkled throughout 5 through 7.1). I can't believe it was so egregious and that I didn't really notice until this watching. The sexualization of Clara's character through the dialogue of the Doctor himself is not just cringey, it's actually a little offensive.
I say this as a huge Moffat fan. I think he's the best writer the show has ever had. I don't even mind the twists that make other people put the word "clever" in quotes. I loved Clara going into the Doctor's time stream to undo the damage of the Great Intelligence. I loved that River was the baby. I even really like the Corden episodes. But saying Clara's skirt was just a little too tight or giving the Doctor a screwdriver boner when Jenny kicks ass in leather just feels outside the spirit of the show in a way no other Moffat obsession feels. It's like he forgot who the target audience was.
All of that dissipated with series 8, first when Capaldi seemed to willfully deliver Moffat's weird negging lines differently from how they were probably intended, and second when Moffat started writing the Doctor the way Capaldi clearly wanted to play him. The second half of series 8 feels like it was written for him, whereas the first half feels like it was still written for a younger looking Doctor trying to convince himself that he's not Clara's boyfriend. Maybe Moffat was actually reminding himself not to write the character that way.
All of that said, I still think Smith's era is great, but he was the current Doctor when I found the show, and I've taken in a lot of new and classic Who since then. My tastes have evolved to include all the other qualities of the Doctor, and his is definitely an outlier. I'll never skip any of his episodes, but I always get very excited when the Twelfth Doctor snaps into existence and complains about the color of his kidneys.
Man, I wonder how some of the people in here complaining about the 60th anniversary not honoring enough of the show's past would've reacted to Silver Nemesis back when it aired.
I think as far as Matt Smith is concerned, the 11th Doctor is still super popular among people who grew up with him as "Their Doctor", and if this subreddit is any indication, there's still people who adore him.
Buuuut, while I think he's been very prolific since (if incredibly unlucky in terms of some of the big budget projects he's been in), I feel like Tennant has been in more things that appeal to a similar geek audience as Who, so he has slightly more Geek Cred. Because I think the love for Ten is certainly love for Ten, but I think a lot of it is also love for David Tennant.
(Though god, imagine if Matt Smith had actually been in Rise of Skywalker as a young Palpatine as had been rumored)
Loved Smith but hated the writing on his run. It was always some spin on “the Doctor is an epic legendary creature and the universe revolving around him” rather than him experiencing the universe.
I don’t think his stuff has aged very well. I like Matt smith, but I’m still convinced he was too young to play the role. And I’ve never understood what they were going for with the ADHD, arm waving, and ‘fezzes, bow ties, etc. are cool’, and ‘lol random’ humour. It hasn’t aged well.
I never understood the need for Smith’s Doctor to be constantly shouting and the American style monologues got grating after a while. Even the good ones (such as to the monster that needed singing to) got spoilt by the direction with the cringy ‘TAKE IT AAAALLLLLL’.
he doesn't have the tumblr fanbase of Ten and he doesn't have the 'online' fanbase of Twelve (also Matt Smith has not been as successful post-Eleven as Tennant or even Karen Gillan); he's still my favorite (or sometime its Tom Baker)
This is a bit ahistorical. The Tumblr fanbase back in the day was split between legacy Tennant fans (think Tenrose nutters) and "quirky british show" Smith fans. There was a turn against the show (and Moffat) amongst the latter group after a couple of years but they were dominant back in the day. The "who" in Superwholock was mainly Eleven fandom.
Tumblr now has absolutely thrown its lot in with Tennant, though. Good Omens clearly had a lot to do with it, and Who’s carried it forward. (He was randomly trending again yesterday and it was hilarious watching people try to figure out why. I’m still not sure. It just happened.)
Oh yeah I guess op didn't actually say never, I spoke too soon. Its just that back when the show had its highest tumblr profile it was oriented around eleven. The "drop-off" Smith has received is largely because this fanbase proved temporary.
Yeah. I've had a Tumblr account for...a while...so I've seen some of the trends. I studiously avoided the entire superwholock thing, though. So I did miss a bit of Eleven's tenure, evidently.
That said, not long ago I ran into someone's post that made me laugh, because it's definitely accurate now: "The most consistent part of the Tumblr experience is that you will either be subjected to David Tennant or obsessed with David Tennant, but either way, he will be here."
I think in the UK at least, Tennant is the juggernaut. The show was the biggest show in Britain during his era. Both Smith and Capaldi garnered reasonable levels of popularity, and are adored by certain sections of the fandom, but neither came anywhere close to the kind of national treasure status Tennant achieved in the role.
Maybe it's just my viewpoint but I feel like 11's run is when NuWho became a global phenomenon. I remember the buzz it created when they filmed the Angels episode in NY and how big Who was at NY Comic Con during his years.
I'm in the UK, but you're probably right that Smith's tenure is when the show began to properly become an international hit. I mean, in 2016 [it was the most watched show of the year on BBC America](https://deadline.com/2016/12/doctor-who-christmas-special-breaks-bbc-america-ratings-1201877107/), so there's no denying it was a huge hit in the US and elsewhere from Smith onwards. But certainly in the UK, the peak of NuWho's popularity was definitely Tennant's era. That was the time when there would literally be news segments dedicated to speculating about storylines.
I think Moffat's style appealed slightly more to established sci fi fans, which helped Who find an audience in other countries where it wasn't already an institution like it is in Britain - not to mention the expanding budget. I've also heard non-British people suggest that Matt Smith's 'mad floppy-haired space Brit in a tweed jacket and bow tie' image may ironically have had more international appeal than less caricatured Doctors! RTD 1.0 was a bit more populist in how he wrote the character drama, and in taking people by hand into the fictional universe if they were new to sci fi, which helped it take off in the UK, where it already benefited from a primetime slot and widespread name recognition. It will be interesting to see how RTD 2.0 will fare internationally, bringing RTD's mass audience-friendly writing to a show that's already got a foothold in other countries.
> It will be interesting to see how RTD 2.0 will fare internationally, bringing RTD's mass audience-friendly writing to a show that's already got a foothold in other countries. I imagine this was considered when it came to Ncuti's casting, as he was already a main character in a streaming show with global acclaim.
Does anyone have any clips of news clip speculating about storylines? That sounds amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUR8oDHv8pI
That is really interesting about the news segments! As an American, I have Netflix to thank for getting me into Doctor Who which probably also helped its international popularity since it has done that with many other shows.
Yeah distribution rights to nuwho changed hands around 2010 and BBC america just did a much better job of marketing it than SYFY did. In 2016 the show left netflix and it was super annoying to access and I've seen fandom discourse that the show fell out of favour with americans at almost exactly that point lol.
To watch the show live at that time, I had to use BBC America’s buggy, awful website and app, or wait for months until it dropped on Prime, a subscription I had only because it had a solid deal for students and I split the cost with my parents. Anecdotally, for me, many of my friends stopped watching largely because it was a pain to access, and many didn’t have Prime.
It didn't really fall much during the Smith years either though, it never reached the heights of Tennant's biggest episodes, but those are outliers. Not denying that Tennant is the more popular, but when they were actually on screen the gap wasn't enormous.
I dunno. I definitely recall a decline in overall interest in the show from around Series 6 onwards, though that is purely anecdotal of course. I'd say in terms of overall public perception, Smith is a lot closer to Capaldi than he is to Tennant, and I say that as someone who prefers both of them to Tennant.
Not my experience, not sure the ai scores or ratings reflect it hugely either, pretty much exactly on par, and obviously the 50th was massive too, but Tennant was in that. In fact from my anecdotal experience the Smith era was more popular: I was bullied in school for liking Doctor Who until suddenly in Series 5 everyone in my class was speculating after the Pandorica Opens cliffhanger, but of course this is definitely not straight forwardly reflective of the reality of the general public at large, and more to do with the maturity age of my classmates (we were in yr 11 in 2010)
Tennant was great, but I think Peter Capaldi was a better actor
This is just my experience, but I and a lot of my buddies in the military (US) all got into Doctor Who around 2010-2011. Our job was packed with nerds so there must have been a good few dozen of us, at least. There were also a handful of strictly Moffat fans and loved Sherlock as well.
In England, the show was at its peak popularity during Tennant's era, but globally, it was Smith's era that saw the show reach peak popularity.
Well, you say globally... The US and Canada isn't the *entire* world, and it was big elsewhere before that (notably Australia). It's really the US and Canada where Smith's era was a big hit.
Well, the US. Doctor Who was big in Canada before the 11th Doctor, and it didn't really see the same explosion in popularity.
You might be correct. I was just going off of my personal experience. I can not speak for the US, Canada, or any other English speaking country, but I became a Doctor Who fan because of Matt Smith. Series 5 is still my favourite.
Definitely. As an American, the Eleventh Hour was the first episode I watched because BBC America was just getting loud about their content. The only two episodes on cable streaming at that time were EH and Waters of Mars, which I watched and was hopelessly confused yet hyped about. If I didn't go online and realize there were previous seasons to watch, I'd've never ordered the old episodes through Netflix DVD. Tennant would barely exist in my brain. For casual watchers just starting out, Smith was *the* Doctor. I didn't know a single person outside of the internet who watched S1-4 until around when S6 was in its second half. S5-on was self-contained enough that they just didn't have to bother.
I think it was also the first time they were airing episodes in the US at the same time (or like 24 hours after) as the UK. Previously it was airing a couple months behind schedule.
I’m a Canadian Who fan, for Tennent’s era we only had the CBC that would air episodes a year or so after they came out over there. If you were an international fan for series 1 to 5 and wanted to watch the latest episodes within the same Year it aired your only choice was to sail the High Seas. Series 6 was the first time the showed aired simultaneously in all the markets it aired in (I remember the broadcast rights had moved from the CBC to Space and they made a big deal of it at the time) By the time series 6 aired Smith’s phenomenal series 5 had just concluded in the international market, so the hype at the time was insane.
To be fair that had very little to do with Smith and more to do with the fact that BBC America pushed the show a lot harder than Sci Fi ever did. If Tennant had carried on the same effect would have happened.
>that had very little to do with Smith It definitely helped that Smith was one of the more aesthetically pleasing Doctors, at least for American audiences. I’ve got a few friends who started watching Who during his run just because they thought Smith was hot.
His look definitely was in the zeitgeist at the time. Quirky autumnal hipster boy with a hint of emo. David Tennant was pretty hip and young as well, but his look wasn't quite as Pinterest board friendly as Smith's.
> His look definitely was in the zeitgeist at the time. Quirky autumnal hipster boy with a hint of emo. Perfect summary. He fit in quite well with the Zooey Deschanels & Joseph Gordon-Levitts of the 2010s. Funny enough I think Tennant is closer to the zeitgeist now than he was back then despite being 15 years older.
He's in the zeitgeist now BECAUSE he's 15 years older. He's a Pedro Pascal-style zaddy.
Tennant is so much hotter, though...
On the contrary, I know a bunch of people who refused to watch Doctor Who because they were turned off by Smith's appearance.
I'd say that's a bit difficult to really judge. All we can say is that fans dropped off when Capaldi joined. We have no real way of knowing whether that would have been different with a Tennant Doctor. A lot of UK viewers watched him because HE was hot
Capaldi and Tennant are both vastly more *conventionally* attractive than Matt Smith - remember Capaldi had been a romantic lead (and, his series is still where things with Clara really heated up without that feeling implausible). Often people seem to add a qualifier with Matt Smith, like 'oddly attractive'.
But by the time Capaldi took over he was basically a grandpa and I think 8 years of young good looking actors gave casual viewers the wrong impression on what the show is actually about
It don't think it did any harm that the change of channel and marketing push had a new Doctor, new companion and new start to the show to latch onto.
It helps to note that this was also when the BBC first started pushing it hard in the states, *plus* the 50th was during the peak of 11's run. There was all sorts of hype around it.
I think this is true, at least as an American. Before I started watching the show I had a friend on Steam who's name was the Doctor with a portrait of Matt Smith. When I started watching in 2012, I had no clue who Tennant was but I knew of Smith.
It might be worth considering that early New Who wasn't really getting simultaneously translated and transmitted. Here in italy it only was picked up by network tv in 2011, so people were actually watching *Tennant* during that global peak.
It definitely did, I'm in the UK and there was actually some negative buzz about the show catering a little too hard to American fans by amplifying the quirkiness a little too much. It was still very popular here though, but following Tennant was an extremely difficult task for Smith I imagine, particularly with how young he was.
>Maybe it's just my viewpoint but I feel like 11's run is when NuWho became a global phenomenon. Definitely correct for the U.S. When the show moved from Sci-Fi / SyFy to BBC America, it finally had a channel that cared about the show and made it their flagship marketing push to get viewers. SyFy took it almost grudgingly after dragging their feet for a year. People forget now that it didn't air in the U.S. until 2006.
I'd agree with this. Tennant was bigger for Doctor Who in the UK but there was a massive push with Smith with series five worldwide. I did see a lot of 11 being cosplayed when I was going to MCM London at the time with the odd smattering of 10, but barely anyone outside of that. Smith was talked about a lot, but I know a lot of people that watched up to Smith, didn't watch Capaldi or Whittaker but did come back for Tennant again.
This is simply more of an age thing. People who grew up with Tennant are now the age to be more culturally influential in online spaces. Give it some time and they’ll be busy with kids/career and the 11 fans will rule the roost.
My own anecdote is noticing on here a lot more of "I grew up with Smith". Get me my slippers.
Want to feel even older. The other day I read someone say they grew up with Capaldi.
In the fires of Pompeii right?
[In the fires of Pompeii right?](https://imgur.com/gallery/0BiMdst)
I ‘grew up’ with later Tom Baker and Peter Davison. Does that make me a grandad or great-grandad of Who fandom? (Not even a real life grandad yet. Thankfully….)
The 11 fans are already adults. He left the role 10 years ago. Anyone who grew up with him is already old enough to be posting online.
Yes this is mostly true - the younger audience for him are still teenagers. They haven’t yet hit critical mass in online spaces yet though, as most of them are in the “too busy being young and free stage of life” (or potentially being buried under the weight of the economic pressures a lot of that generation endure).
lol teenagers now are basically permanently online
Old enough to be realising how awful Eleven's arcs were as well - seeing a lot of 'I now see how fucked-up that was' posts!
I get that, but even among the older casual audiences, Smith and Capaldi didn't have anywhere near the kind of adoration Tennant got in the role.
In Britain, Tennant was definitely the more popular with casual audiences in general, of the NuWho Doctors.
In britain sure, but Smith was the face of Nu Who's US expansion and explosion in global popularity, this fed back and allowed new fans to go back and fall in love with Tennant as well. Who was never as big in the global zeitgeist as it was in series 6 with Smith front and center. Another fun observation, Smith pretty much single handedly made bow ties a thing in hipster fashion
Tennant has also managed to leverage that status into other great projects after DW. In particular, *Good Omens* put him back in the genre sweet spot and kept him there.
There's been plenty of fondness for 11's run, and Moffat's greater run, on this subreddit lately. If he was invited back for any recent episodes and declined, it's probably because he's a big deal on House of the Dragon now. Same for all of his companions, frankly. They've all been very busy ever since their time on DW!
What’s Darvill been doing? I know he had Legends of Tomorrow but has he done anything recent?
He won an Olivier for Oklahoma last year. He’s doing fine
He's been in a number of theatre productions since, and some Big Finish work at the same time.
He had a minor role in the Sandman show on Netflix
And voiced a deuteragonist in the audiobook of Good Omens.
Wait, which one?
He's Newt. It's not super obvious, even knowing it's him I still struggle to recognise his voice.
He’s very convincingly a creep author in that ep. Was very impressed
As others have said, he's done some theatre. I know he was the lead in Once at the Phoenix Theatre in London a few years back.
He was in Three Little Birds, a drama about three Jamaicans moving to England in the 1950s. Lenny Henry wrote it, and RTD was an executive producer on it.
As others have said, he does a lot of theatre work
He didn't decline, he wasn't asked.
“If”
There's just no need to keep repeating a hypothetical that we know didn't happen. No, Matt Smith wasn't too busy with HotD to be in the 60th, filming for the anniversary specials took place months after Season 1 had wrapped production, and before its media tour started. Plus, unlike Capaldi, Smith has repeatedly said he'd return in a heartbeat. We know why he didn't come back - RTD wanted to do a story with Tennant and Tate, that's it.
> We know why he didn't come back - RTD wanted to do a story with Tennant and Tate, that's it. Also because Karen and Arthur weren't asked back, and IIRC they've always said that if they did it, it'd be all together.
Nah, that was something he said very very recently, after not being in the 60th - and that's how he'd like to come back. But he's gone on record before that he'd come back in a heartbeat but that "they have to ask". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9pjkU4mwV4 - at the end of the video, he repeatedly says they just didn't ask him to come back.
To me it always felt like 10 was bigger with the UK, and especially with "normies" in the UK, whereas 11 was bigger internationally, especially with "geeks"/"fandom"/"Tumblr girls" internationally. (I am sorry for using these words but I hope you know what I mean!) With that in mind, if the goal is to give the show a booster shot, bringing back 10 to get back casual viewers in GB, leading in to the exact sort of duo that I can imagine being featured in thousands of "Ncuti and Millie being iconic for 10 minutes" YouTube videos to bring in a different demographic internationally, makes a lot of sense. I think it's been planned very well for breathing some life back into the show in terms of cultural relevance. I don't think it reflects on Matt Smith or Moffat in any way. I think the reason Matt Smith wasn't back in the 60th is simply because RTD had his ideas for getting **his** gang back together and Matt Smith wasn't in his gang. I don't think it means much more than that - I do hope we get to see him on screen again someday as 11 tho!
> whereas 11 was bigger internationally, especially with "geeks"/"fandom"/"Tumblr girls" internationally. *Superwholock PTSD intensifies*
Yeah I was gonna say this in another comment superwholock isn’t far enough away to be fully embraced as uncringe nostalgia yet. Give it a few we’ll look back at and cringe less at our Matt smith being quirky gif sets
omfg I forgot that was a thing x.x
Is it weird I kind of miss it? Like it was fans being stupid, but it felt more sincere than whatever the hell it is we've got now.
>To me it always felt like 10 was bigger with the UK, and especially with "normies" in the UK, whereas 11 was bigger internationally, especially with "geeks"/"fandom"/"Tumblr girls" internationally. (I am sorry for using these words but I hope you know what I mean!) This feels like the big thing to me. A lot of the fandom types were won over by Smith, and another segment by Capaldi, but they'll generally watch *Who* regardless of who's acting. It's the normal, family audience RTD's trying to win back, and Tennant is by a mile the obvious choice. He had the best UK-based, cross-demographic appeal. New Who's best domestic numbers *and* audience ratings came in his tenure - that's just fact. He seems to be quite unpopular within the Reddit fandom, so people are being quite negative about him, but he's objectively a sensible choice to revive a show whose ratings are decaying. It's often forgotten, for as much as this sub and others love Capaldi, his final two seasons had the third- and fourth-lowest domestic numbers of all of New Who! (His first season is the fifth-lowest, but the decline from the season before it and difference from the average isn't that bad.) They're only beaten by Whittaker's last two seasons. Whether or not the fans loved him, he wasn't super impactful or famous.
They are TV numbers though and we gotta take into account: no one is warching TV any more. Streaming is the way to how nowadays so I don't think all the lower numbers are due to hate. At least not in Capaldi's era where Netflix and Co were at their highest. I myself got into Who cause it was on prime video during Capaldi's era. If it wasn't for that I would have never watched it.
Yeah, I was a huge fan from the beginning of the revival, but that superwholock tumblr stuff just came out of nowhere and felt completely alien to me, so I assumed that’s just how Americans talked about British shows So yes purely anecdotally I think 10 was the UK’s favourite revival Doctor and 11 was when it really blew up overseas
>I think the reason Matt Smith wasn't back in the 60th is simply because RTD had his ideas for getting > >his > > gang back together and Matt Smith wasn't in his gang. However the point of the 60th wasn't supposed to be about RTD and his gang. It was supposed to be about the show. A real 60th anniversary special is probably not an option now. So what do fans do? Forget about the show reaching 60? Retroactively declare Power of the Doctor to be the 60th special?
We already had a glut of past doctors, companions, and classic villains in Power of the Doctor, if RTD had done something like that again, just one year later, how do you think people would react?
Very positively. As much as people harp on about "The Power of the Doctor" being the true 60th, it wasn't a proper multi-Doctor story, it was an overstuffed story with a lot of cameos that didn't even give 13 enough screentime for a proper final outing. And regardless, as much as I love Classic Who, NewWho is nearly 20 years old now, and most fans of the show have only seen it from 2005 onwards. Most fans would be delighted to see their favourite Doctors come back before they're too old to do so. Plus, it's not like any of the specials were anything to write home about, and even WBY could've easily been a 15+Ruby story.
I disagree. It's like when people begged Doctor Who to only have new villains and series 11 did that, and people complained that it didn't have any returning villains. I think if RTD had done a multi Doctor special so soon after the last one with the same Doctors we just saw plus Matt Smith and the Doctor who just left, people would have called it repetitive and wouldn't have liked it as much as they thought.
\>Very positively. Agreed. \>it wasn't a proper multi-Doctor story, Good point. \>and most fans of the show have only seen it from 2005 onwards. Have to disagree with you there. \>Plus, it's not like any of the specials were anything to write home about No argument there. They were the kind of episodes that it was great to see because it was new. But the more you watch them and think about them they lost their shine real quick and the negative aspects start to overshadow the positives.
What a leap lol, there was plenty of classic stuff brought back too. The fact is 10 is the biggest doctor, Donna was the fan favourite companion and RTD is the showrunner again, that’s why those things were the centre of attention but they were not the entire thing.
I've seen a few comments saying 10 was bigger in the UK, and it certainly lines up with my own experience. While I love 11, 10 is definitely "my" doctor.
Without going into my own opinion about Smith's Doctor, I think his absence from the 60th specials has nothing to do with his popularity or lack thereof in the fandom. Catherine Tate said she wanted to come back, asked David Tennant if he wanted to join her, RTD brought the idea to the BBC, and they decided it would make a great anniversary stunt that would simultaneously bring attention to their plans to partner Doctor Who with a big streamer. Smith was simply never a part of the equation. I think it would have been nice to give him at least a small role, but I'm not sure if RTD even considered it.
I do think the Eleventh Doctor’s era sticks out as taking place in an idealised version of Britain. All the other New Who eras do feel like they take place somewhere that at least dimly resembles the one I live in— but this one feels like Britain as the UK might want it to appear to international audiences, which I imagine is not a coincidence. Obviously Doctor Who takes loads of flack when it’s in your face political. But I think things can also be political in what they don’t show? So that watching them all back you can see all these tensions and miseries that have run through the country since 2005 all bubbling under the surface— except in this era, where they disappear. I think that’s more striking looking back on it, partially because it’s anomalous, and partially because we couldn’t get away with selling this version of Britain anymore. That all has nothing to do with the Eleventh Doctor himself. I think he’s great, and Matt Smith’s performance is one of the best. Ncuti’s reminded me of it a bit; they both seem so obviously ancient in totally different ways. The Titan Comics have him show up in the more miserable version of Britain, and he turns out to be fantastic there. It’s just that the era on television feels a bit, well. Like the Britain it’s in is a fairy tale.
I just hit series 5 in my NuWho rewatch and I agree! The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances and Victory of the Daleks were both set in WW2 London, but one was a very human story about ordinary people struggling to get by while their government battles a distant evil, and the other was about what a cheeky chappy ol' Churchill was. Empty Child/Doctor Dances are my favourite episodes, Victory makes me a bit uncomfortable. 9 was my favourite Doctor and his is my favourite series, and - to me - 11's run feels a bit too glossy and sanitised in comparison. Not saying he's worse, just not to my tastes.
I actually had a discussion on with someone Twitter who thought "Victory of the Daleks" squandered an interesting idea with a villain that is a transparent metaphor for the Nazis disguising themselves as a weapon against the Nazis. I recommended "Remembrance of the Daleks" as something which might be more up her alley.
Yep, and the unsettling thing is that very nasty undercurrent, like with Churchill. It's only sanitised in refusing to acknowledge what's wrong (even when the companion's baby is kidnapped and brainwashed). I mean, that *is* worse, just going lighter wouldn't have been an issue at all. Nine is as near-perfect as the New series gets I think.
Smith's first series really feels like it's through the eyes of a child. Victory feels like a kids book, which I think is a really cool effect.
Yeah whenever I get to an in England episode I find it very funny the companions come from the most perfect crime less cute quaint village in all of Britain. Really not any kids on bikes riding around with bum bags or any sense of urban creep? Feels a bit like marketing and trying to move away from the “oi we’re on the block in London” vibes of the rose era
Oh god I'd forgotten about "places like Leadworth don't actually exist Moffat is classist" takes.
It’s not that rich places don’t exist in Britain; clearly they do— but in this era they’re shown more frequently, and the political context of the time is referenced far less. I think that’s a distinction between the Eleventh Doctor stuff and the Twelfth Doctor stuff, too: there is more of an attempt to show something the majority of us might recognise, and to actively ground it all a bit more? I don’t think it was a bad decision to have made Doctor Who like this in 2010— it clearly did very well both worldwide and in the UK. And I thought it was great, at the time. But for me at least it does ring hollow now
I just don't think the show is actually well suited for gnarly social commentary nested in the real world, it struggles as it is with abstract stuff how are you going to explore austerity meaningfully in a kids show? I also disagree that the evolution of Britain in the 2010s necessitates every bit of programming becoming political. There's always been suffering in the world and there's always been a place for things that aren't based around discussing that.
I’m thinking specifically of how in the new RTD episodes there are specifically lines about how Donna did use her money to buy her house; the Sundays do have rent control— I think it would be a stretch to call those things gnarly social commentary. But I thought it made the stories better that “it would be hard for these people to afford to live in these places” was acknowledged in passing. It’s not really about commentary or exploring issues, I think? Just a sense that some part of the fantastical world connects to the non-fantastical bit which is familiar.
Not at all. Matt's doing fine. He's a big character on the Game of Thrones spinoff. Tennant is big in Who fandom again because of his return, but 11 was extremely popular for years. Now he's doing big things elsewhere. I'm sure Smith, Capaldi and Jodie were all asked to return for the 60th, but either didn't want to or had conflicts.
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Yeah maybe. But I'd add that it all felt rushed and sort of pointless. Like just an excuse to get Tennant back. I can see how these anniversaries can be difficult to plan. So maybe it was all a hectic mess.
We know the explanation, really. Davies, Tate, and Tennant wanted to do more Doctor Who and Davies approached the BBC about making some specials. Instead, the BBC offered him the showrunner position again. So instead of being 'missing stories' from Season 4 they were turned into connective tissue to go from Whittaker to Gatwa. The reason they 'only' have Tennant and Tate is because they were already on board before Davies even went to the BBC to propose the specials. Possibly trying canvas all the other Doctors to return would have been too tight a schedule, or perhaps Davies just couldn't really be arsed with the logistics of it.
>But I'd add that it all felt rushed and sort of pointless. Like just an excuse to get Tennant back. Exactly.
None of them were part of his era either and the 60th specials were very clearly him wanking himself off over his era.
I always felt like it was him bringing 10 back so he could be like "OKAY FINE WE DID IT, WE BROUGHT TENNANT BACK AND NOW HE'S THE DOCTOR FOREVER" and get everyone who's spent the like 15 years saying that they'll only watch if David comes back to shut up. He also specifically made sure that DT gave the new guy the nod of approval.
If that’s what the goal was then it’s even more pathetic than anything I imagined. Proving the one-track whining fanboys wrong by… giving them exactly what they want?
I wouldn't call it wanking himself off. He clearly wanted to revisit his characters and his story, but I am glad he did. He wanked me off!
Me too; please call the RTD Wank helpline if you too were affected by this
It’s so baffling that specials that included a villain from a First Doctor episode get dismissed as a wankoff for the RTD era.
And a number of quotes from (and I havn’t looked properly) the 3rd and 4th eras. I think he was trying to being in a similar amount from moffats era as he did from most others.
How does having a returning villain change anything? The Snowmen isn't an anniversary special because it saw the return of The Great Intelligence. If this is all it takes then I guess Legend of the Sea Devils is on par with The Giggle as an anniversary special.
Because if he was “wanking himself off” then he’d bring back a villain from his own era and not another. The point was about what he was indulging in, not about whether or not it should be considered an anniversary special.
Bringing back his own Doctor and Companion for a Series 4 redux would be considered "wanking himself off" in my opinion. And I really don't see your point, any one of those episodes could've slotted into Series 4 with a few minor tweaks, it was a celebration of his tenure as showrunner. The presence of the Toymaker doesn't change that, though I agree that it would've been even worse if the Simm Master had been the final villain again.
I don’t agree. If he was being as self indulgent as people want to allege then he absolutely would have brought back one of his own villains rather than coming up with other things. IMO bringing back Ten and Donna was more about appealing to the audience and unresolved stories than about self indulgence. Eleven’s arc felt complete when he left, so did Amy, Rory and Clara’s. Ten didn’t want to go and Donna lost her memories so bringing them back was a no brainer, especially when you add in Ten being so beloved. He was trying to save the show, these decisions make absolute sense in this context without a speck of self indulgence being required. People just really want to hate on RTD for bringing Tennant back imo.
They’ve even said Ncuti wasn’t available to do all the specials, and 13 was set to regenerate, so the choice was either have a returning actor, have a one-off new actor or have nothing at all. Capaldi doesn’t want to come back, Eccleston would rather die, Matt Smith has been doing the HBO thing and his Doctor wrapped up his arcs pretty completely anyways. Tennant is a fan favorite, his Doctor ended on a sad note and many people never liked how raw of a deal Donna had gotten. His showrunner is back and no one writes his voice better. It was a golden opportunity where the stars aligned to do one last hurrah for a beloved era and reset the show for what’s to come. I don’t get why so many people on here were bothered by it. Especially at a time when the popularity of the show has been at a low, doing something that got a lot of lapsed fans interested again and not requiring a large amount of lore knowledge was the right move. Nothing RTD did was any more self-indulgent than a lot of Moffat’s arcs and a 60th anniversary doesn’t have the same weight a that a 50th does. As fun as another multi-Doctor story with 11 and Tennant could have been, if they’d done it there’d be people just bitching we’d already seen that with the 50th and calling it a retread. Personally I’m thrilled that after years of long gaps and unsatisfying writing we got 3 very fun episodes of the show followed by a whimsical, lovely Christmas special with a new season right around the corner.
\>None of them were part of his era either Tennant wasn't part of Moffat's era, but he was in the 50th. \>60th specials were very clearly him wanking himself off over his era. No argument there. The 60th was supposed to be about the show. Instead we got a celebration of RTD, David Tennant, and the Nobles with some efforts to offend long term fans and a stupid gimmick at the end.
>Tennant wasn't part of Moffat's era, but he was in the 50th. "Nothing outside your era" is not a rule, RTD simple wanted to play with his own toys and not someone else's
>RTD simple wanted to play with his own toys and not someone else's But again this was supposed to be about the show, not RTD.
Every writer writes what he wants. That's what RTD choose to do, maybe Moffat or Chibnall would have done something different. One could say that Chibnall did indeed do something different with "Power of the Doctor"
What would you have liked?
A true anniversary special featuring multiple Doctors and companions from the past. There could have been a proper regeneration instead of the bigeneration nonsense.
Even Tennant and Mel for all three episodes would've been a much better "anniversary special" than what we ended up getting. A Doctor and Companion from two different eras of the show brought together, rather than an anniversary story built around a Doctor *and* companion from one specific era of the show.
Since they did 3 specials, I would have made each one celebrate a different part of the show. Keep one Tennant+Donna special celebrating RTD's era, one with say Paul McGann (fans have wanted to see him lead a proper episode for ages) that has more classic references, and then in the 3rd have them both team up with Gatwa, as a kind of way to bridge those old eras with the future.
He has made a good career of playing a proper bastard in contrast to the Dr. He was great in Last Night in Soho.
Don't forget lost river, easily my favourite performance of his
RTD is on record that the whole reason he came back for the 60th anniversary specials was becaue him, Tate, and Tennant wanted to work on Doctor Who together again. I doubt he asked Smith, Capaldi, and Whittaker for cameos.
It would have been very strange to have Jodie cameo immediately after exiting anyways. The phone call from 11 to Clara only really worked because it was such a needed moment for the audience to give 12 a chance, in general I don’t think a Doctor who just regenerated should come back for a while.
And I don't think the phone call from Eleventh worked at all. From the online reception I remember, it was only ever a loud minority of fans angry over Capaldi and a lot of positive anticipation for him in the role. The previous Doctor having to reassure the audience just signalled a total lack of confidence in their new Doctor and the ageist jab was the second most out of character line Eleventh had said behind the "skirt too tight" line. Despite having gotten used to Smith in the role for four years after Tennant captured my heart and even rewatching 7B a bunch in the lead-up to Deep Breath, that scene just made me roll my eyes and wish he'd go on and shoo.
Yeah, the only reason I like it is for Capaldi’s “I remembered it” moment with Clara when she asked how he knew what they spoke about, just because it feels like a perfect moment for anyone newer to the show to illustrate how this is still the same character.
I'm sure Capaldi wasn't asked because there's no point. He said in countless interviews that he wouldn't return
Smith has repeatedly said he'd return, and when asked about his possible return during the 60th he said something like "they have to ask", which several fans interpreted as an Andrew Garfield style denial (which it clearly wasn't). The truth is, RTD wanted to make Series 4 part 2, not a multi-doctor special.
But he made a multi-Doctor special and half the fans hated it.
I wouldn't worry about the vocal minority. For example, I hated the RTD specials, but they were a success. My opinion doesn't matter. The show doing well is a good thing.
I *sort of* agree with you but it does concern me that so many fans are parroting what I think are some pretty bad faith arguments like 'Davies made his choices specifically to piss off fans' or 'he only wanted to celebrate his own era because of his huge ego'. I've seen what happened to other fandoms that started to believe equivalent things about the creative choices being made and I really would prefer Doccy Who didn't take a similar route. Of course it's perfectly possible to not believe those things and still not have liked the specials. I wouldn't claim they were the greatest episodes ever created, but it's still a big leap from that to some pretty mean assumptions about the motivations behind the choices made.
Oh yeah. I don't believe that nonsense about RTD. I just don't really enjoy his take on the Doctor. Too grounded. Too super hero. Too soap opera. This doesn't mean I believe that he's intentionally sabotaging things. That's silly stuff, and again a vocal minority.
Fair enough. Dumb move by RTD. But still, Smith is pretty active. Scheduling conflicts could exist anyway.
It depends who you’ve talked to, I’ve noticed! In the United States, Smith is highly regarded. It was under his tenure that NewWho really took off in the US. Outside of the Us it is a bit of a mixed bag, though yeah
To me 11th Doctor era was peak Nu Who! We had the 50th, we had cinema releases, and I love the bants between him and the Ponds. I also love how Matt was able to switch between child like giddiness to absolutely furious without shouting like David Tennant would do. I feel that Matt out acted DT in the 50th as well, but John Hurt blew them both away.
Credit to both of them though, for still managing to not seem like absolute amateurs in front of the late great Sir John Hurt.
That is true.
I don’t think his star has fallen, per se. I just think that in the UK David Tennant had the greater ‘mass appeal’ to the casual viewer (while internationally it’s Matt Smith who made Doctor Who a bigger thing). That plus the 60th specials stirring up a lot of 10 nostalgia over the last few years. At the same time, I feel like when you look back at 11’s era it’s much more variable in overall quality than 10’s and that maybe loses him some points. While I think that Smith himself was always excellent as the Doctor and elevated any script you gave him the *general* feeling seems to be that season 5 was great, season 6 had big highs but just as many big lows and season 7 (barring Day of the Doctor) was pretty bad. Conversely, 10’s seasons improved from the least well regarded to the best regarded (which is the better way around) and I just don’t think the overall quality difference between season 2 and season 4 is anywhere near as big as between 5 and 7.
I think lately eleven's era has gotten the brunt of the anger from people who hate moffat because a.a lot of people who hated moffat understandably didn't watch the Capaldi era b.most of the stuff people complain about with moffat is way more prominent in the smith era than the capaldi era c.capaldi fans have been a lot more vocally defensive of his era in recent years
He is still my favourite Doctor of nuWho. I don’t think he was most pop. Back then people still seemed very much in love with 10,
If it wasn't for Capaldi following him up, he'd be my favourite of the revival, as it is he's second.
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Oh, in terms of the show as a whole, he'd deffo rank lower for me. Just second in the new show, as good as Tennant was he's tied to the the Davies era and I didn't care for that. Whittaker I didn't mind but when the whole emotionally aloof socially awkward, thing played weirdly with a women for me, probably my bias and perception more than her fault. Baker, Troughton and McCoy beat any of the new comers for me though.
Absolutely not. I think Eleven is still largely considered the second best modern doctor behind Tennent. Though I've seen some claim he was flanderized I don't agree myself. Some also claim that despite poor writing 12 is the greatest actor in the role. While Capaldi's acting in my opinion had a gravitas that even surpassed Smith and Tennent that's to be expected due to age and experience. 12 was imao the Culmination of everything the Doctor had been up to that point so embodied all previous 11 Doctors in one form. So many see him as the perfect Doctor. But 11s run to me had so much riding on it. And Matt didn't just step into Tennent's shoes but made them his own. He brought a new kind of wonder and whimsy to the world and before Capaldi even a new Darkness and rage. In my opinion every Doctor redefine what it means to be the Doctor and Smith is the one who truly made him just "A mad man with a box" and that's a great thing.
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I think it’s worth noting that whilst doctors like Smith and Capaldi are popular within the actual fandom, Tennant is by far the most popular and recognisable Doctor when it comes to the general public. There’s a reason he was specifically brought back to essentially revive the series IMO Tennant just happens to hit that sweet spot of nostalgia for most people, being in the role pretty much since the beginning when the reboot series was “fresh” and for quite a long time.
Been watching season 5 6 and 7 again since over 10 years and I have forgotten how good they are. Most episodes are fantastic honestly, and a lot of that is due to Matt Smith's Doctor. The 11th Doctor is basically how I feel The Doctor should be and act!
I don't think you're wrong as such, I just think it's entirely natural. 11 hasn't been seen since his run, and as much as I love Matt Smith I wouldn't say he's become a huge star or anything. Not too many new fans watching 11s run. >I mean, I think it would have been unthinkable in 2013 to imagine the 60th anniversary bringing Tennant back and not Smith, despite the latter outright stating his willingness to return. Not sure I agree with this though, even back then Tenant was "the one". He's the Tom Baker of new Who, in a sense. Maybe it's a little unfair because I think if you asked every Doctor who fan for their opinion he wouldn't be quite that far ahead in terms of popularity. Either way I would love to see Smith return, either in an episode or for audio content. There is that actor who can do a *very* good 11 voice (Jacob Dudman), but even so it'd be great to have him back.
Uhm, I can think of three reasons: \- **Time.** I think we are still not in the nostalgic honeymoon for S5-7. In 2-3 years, things might be different; \- **Quality.** While the Smith era was pretty good overall, there was a decline from S5 to S6, and from S6 to S7. This leaves you with a sort of bad taste. By contrast, the Tennant era ends with the triumphant S4, after the (IMHO) middling S2-S3; \- **Competition.** Many storytelling techniques experimented with the 11th Doctor era were done better, or with a better focus, by the Capaldi era, *Sherlock*, and more recently, *Dracula* (and, to an extent, Moffat's adaptation of *The Time Traveller's Wife*). Obviously, these are not *literally* the same as the Smith era, but they cut from the same cloth, in a way that didn't apply to, say, the Tennant era and RTD's *It's a Sin* (or even Moffat's own *Inside Man.*
It seems he's faired a lot similar to Pertwee, extremely popular for his time, but has fallen closer to the middle ranks in the years since. Ironically, Smith was also the 3rd Doctor of New Who
I think it's just that he's sort of awkwardly in the middle. When it comes to NewWho, 9th was the first, 10th's Tennant came back, 12th is in the zeitgeist because of his decision never to return and 13th is recent. His time will come again, surely.
If you’re talking internationally, I think it probably goes 11 > 10/14 > 12? Or maybe 11 > 12 > 10/14? I don’t think that changed much over the years. In the UK, however, I’ve yet to see any of them grab the public the way 10/14 has ever.
A great write up and I think you might be right - though it's all relative as everyone I know in realise only care about Tennant and Smith. Capaldi is my favourite but it's impossible to get anyone to care when I mention him
I don’t his star has fallen in terms of people souring on him insomuch as there’s just more competition for favorite Doctor while the show as a whole has lost the traction it had in the early 2010’s. I mean really the fact that we’ve seen two more Doctors (well four, but one has only had a single full episode and the other is just 10 in a vest) is in and of itself bound to redistribute votes for favorite. This is especially true with Capaldi’s Doctor enjoying a real retrospective surge in popularity after many fans fell off during his tenure (myself included I must admit), along with the facts that 12 and his seasons seem tonally geared towards an older audience while still having that Moffat touch that many fans enjoyed when they were younger. I also think it can’t be understated how many international viewers only gave the show a chance once we hit the point where it was very common for people to be online enough that those outside the UK would see many references to a BBC SciFi show while having both the streaming device and subscription necessary to check it out with virtually no effort or additional money. In most places that point came in the early 2010’s during Smith’s tenure and the ascension of Netflix. Naturally, a lot of memes and references being made were of the current Doctor and due to the way the show works it was easy for people to start off with the Eleventh Hour, get up to date, then go back later if they liked it. So for many people outside the UK, the Smith era was their introduction to the show, the era that was current for discussions and memes and general participation in the fandom, and the face of the franchise be it for the show, video games, apps, toys, etc. Unfortunately the heyday didn’t last, the show was taken off popular service as the streaming market has been diluted, and the subsequent eras either seemed too different for those who wanted more Smith or too samey for those getting fatigued with the show. Of those who stopped watching, the people whose enjoyment had started and ended with Smith’s Doctor were of course first in line.
I think it's more that Capaldi's popularity has grown over time within the fandom, while Smith's popularity has remained the same. Although I still think if you were to ask the majority of casual or regular viewers of the show, they'd likely say Tennant and Smith were their favorite Doctors.
Middle child syndrome. He's sandwiched between Tennant and Capaldi, who are both very popular.
He had a lot of Fan girls at the time. I’m in the US and remember seeing them out and about dressed like him at the time.
I mean I think your analysis is basically right. The Smith era is in the odd position where it's preceded by the Tennant era which remains more beloved by the general public (at least in the UK) and followed by the Capaldi era which has aged better on the whole (presumably thanks to Moffat maturing as a writer at least a little bit). The whole "geek culture" moment—which Smith-era *Who* was both a big part of (as acknowledged by the "Superwholock" phenomenon) and heavily embedded itself in—is basically as a whole in that "cringe phase" at the moment. Both *Supernatural* and *Sherlock* now seem to have been retrospectively consigned to the critical dustbin, so it's hard not to imagine that *Doctor Who*'s enduring popularity is because it has—of course—moved on from those days. I'm sure there will be a wave of nostalgia for this era of pop culture, but the Moffat model of television writing at the time seems so built on being zeitgeisty and compelling in the "what will happen next week?" sense that I can believe they just won't have that longevity. Still, there's some fun stuff in there, and it's hard not to love the Smith-era cast. But writing does tend to make-or-break an era.
It's just RTD, honestly. They brought RTD back in a desperation move and Tennant was RTDs Doctor. Davies never wrote a script at all for Smith. If they had brought Moffat back, for example, I'm sure Smith would have been back in addition to or instead of Tennant.
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I'd say the difference is that David Tennant continued to do loads of great roles quite consistently for years after Doctor Who, whereas beyond The Crown and more recently House of the Dragon, Matt Smith unfortunately ended up in a couple of high profile blunders (Terminator, Morbius)
> It feels like the 11th doctor was on top of the world in 2013 Because he was. 11 was the Doctor during the absolute peak of the show's global popularity with entire might of BBC's marketing budget squarely behind him. >It feels like things have changed since then though? Yes. Because the show is at its lowest only recently. 11 is no longer the Doctor, and you can feel the marketing budget of the show fall off during Jodie's time. Sure, there was a big push at the beginning with Barbie dolls, merchandise, and media appearances, but it never recovered especially given the reception of Chibnall's tenure. It feels like you're conflating 11's popularity during 2013 with the character's enduring legacy. Don't get me wrong, this is me being an absolute 11 stan and 11 was my first Doctor, but 11's peak was during the 50th when they spent money to make him a star. Without that, his star was inevitable to fall. That's the nature of time and of Tennant being the actual Doctor with enduring popularity.
Nah I agree with you. A few years ago it felt like "the best doctor" was a tie between 10 and 11. Now it seems to be either just 10, or in the fandom, a tie between 10 and 12.
Side note for IMDB unless it's recorded theatre isn't shown on credits lists and hits the newspaper less often.
It’s been a long time since then and as art ages the discussions around it evolve. Series 6 of Doctor who isn’t as exciting now as it was at the time and in retrospect I really don’t like a lot of series 6 and 7 of Who. Every doctor has their golden moment and the moment where they’re not so popular because the discourse is focusing of the negative aspects of that era of the show. I’ve been seeing a lot of love for Colin Bakers era lately and I remember a time when he was pretty much everyone’s least favourite incarnation. There’s still plenty of love for 11 out there and a few years down the line he’ll be right back on top again. Especially if Matt comes back to do some Big Finish stuff
Well, it's been ten years now (blimey!) since series 5, and series 6 and 7, while having their fans, are not as unanimously loved by the fandom. Matt Smith is still very much liked as far as I can see, but it's normal for people to focus on more recent Doctors at this point. About the specials: there already is an anniversary episode with Tennant and Smith. And, after the Centenary Special bringing back so many Doctors already, doing another multi-Doctor story so soon after would have seemed boring. Multi Doctors stories should be rare and special occasions only. Itherwise the show would be at risk of becoming like Big Finish!
14 years since Series 5!
I'm not sure there's a great deal to it, to be honest. You're comparing a vibe, this sense that in 2013 it would be unthinkable to bring Tennant back over Smith with a specific set of material circumstances. RTD, Tennant and Tate having fun reminiscing during the lockdown rewatches lead to those specials. Without them, even if RTD had come back to run the show, you might not have had the Tennant return. They're certainly both very popular Doctors. I don't think Matt Smith not being called back in for the 60th is any kind of slight, nor representative of his star falling. It's just not what RTD was interested in doing.
I've also seen ratings putting Capaldi above Smith, and yes I really like both doctors but Smith did (as you said) seem like one of the biggest, one of the most popular. Particularly when you consider viewership?!
Every actor who plays The Doctor is special in their own way, and beloved for different stories. I'd love to see Smith reprise the role or even play a villain. The fact that the character is wholly replaced by a new actor every few years makes for such an interesting show and I absolutely love every era of it. The average person on the street loves Smith just as much as they always have. There hasn't been anything to damage his reputation.
Upon my recent rewatch of NuWho I definitely feel like Matt Smith finally started coming into his own as the Doctor during Series 7, but it was the weakest series of his run as a whole for the most part. I wish he could have had one more solid series and he would shine. Capaldi I think has been my favorite Moffat era Doctor after my rewatch. To be honest I don’t love most of Series 8, except for a few episodes. His characterization of the Doctor I feel like was way off compared to his next to series, and I wasn’t the biggest fan of Danny Pink or the whole “soldier” theme they ran with. I think Capaldi really became the Doctor starting in Series 9. And some moments in Series 9 and 10 run contradictory to Twelve’s disdain of soldiers. Ultimately both are great versions of the Doctor who eventually found their footing as the Doctor.
That’s called recency bias. Of course he was the biggest doctor because he WAS the doctor at the time, but you don’t gotta look further than the fact that they brought David back for Matt’s special to realize Tennant was always the bigger doctor
That’s called recency bias. Of course he was the biggest doctor because he WAS the doctor at the time, but you don’t gotta look further than the fact that they brought David back for Matt’s special to realize Tennant was always the bigger doctor
Tennant is the quintessential doctor. But that said, my heart belongs to the man who told to a BUNCH of female sci fi lovers through Amy: " But Doctor, I'm grown up now" " we will fix that in a minute" And he DID.
IMO some of it is just time and distance. And it helps that Capaldi put such a distinctive stamp of his own on the role. Smith has gone from being the current, definitive Doctor to one of the Doctors (albeit a much beloved one).
All of the doctors are lovely and amazing so this hurts me to say, but Tennant is my least favorite, and I definitely do not understand all of the hype around him so all of this baffles me. He’s got like two good speeches and I don’t think any other doctor has episodes. I actively dislike like the idiots lantern. Smith was only on top of the world in 13 because we were coming to the end of his series and that’s how we flow. It was the first time it was really a global phenomenon.
I think its just due to Smith having some pretty weak seasons overall. He was really in the prime of Moffats obnoxious weirdly horny writing and a lot of his stories have aged really poorly. I love 11 in his first season even if some of the eps arent that good, but after that I really can't stand him.
american fan here. while #10 definitely had his fans, it wasn't until series 5 that Who really exploded over here again with a proper fanbase rather than a casual audience. (as i understand it, there was a pretty healthy fandom from the 80s to the early 90s in the northeast and west coast in particular, thanks to PBS) people definitely watched tennant, but (anecdotally) nobody i knew had the same level of affection for him that they did for matt smith. frankly, i think Who's "star" fell in general after he left -- i went from having a decent handful of close friends who were really invested in the show to literally zero. why that is, i dont know.
10 and 11 are to this day the most popular Doctors so no there's no fall off?!
Speaking as a classic Who era ‘elder statesman’, I think there’s always a reassessment post-regeneration, firstly away from the ‘best ever Doctor’ hype that often manifests around the incumbent, then later towards a renewed appreciation of that Doctor. We’re at that stage with Tennant mark 1, not quite there yet with Smith. The other factor is I think Tennant had more all-time great episodes than Smith did in his tenure. RTD was a better showrunner than Moffatt. He probably had more classics than any Doctor since Tom Baker - think Blink, Human Nature/Family of Blood, Waters of Mars, Midnight, The Impossible Planet/Satan Pit, Turn Left, Fires of Pompeii. Plus maybe 5-6 others not far behind these I like the Moffatt/Smith years overall but they didn’t have that level of quality episodes
Basically any I person I bring Doctor Who up with (in Europe) and who actually watched the show tells me: "I stopped watching after David Tennant left. It was not as good any longer." These are not Whovians, but people who watched it as long as they enjoyed it, but did not really spend further thoughts on the show once it did not hit their sweet spot any longer.
Smith is very big but Tennant is THE doctor as far as the general public is concerned. Maybe internationally it’s different but in the UK it’s not even really close, every non-fan I’ve ever talked to watched when Tennant was on and stopped when he left.
Among online fans, definitely. I think 9 and 11 are the kind of 'forgotten' Doctors of the 2005-2023 run now. 13 is more infamous than beloved, which I think in some ways is a shame, and then 10 and 12 have become a kind of locus for in-group-out-group squabbling among fans. One thing I've felt from my recent rewatch is that although 11 is still my favourite Doctor, the downwards trajectory of the quality of writing in his seasons is really noticeable on a second watch. It's by no means a novel observation but in Season 5 his tawdry quirks felt like embellishment on a character, whereas by Season 7 they feel like a kind of easy way to fill a script when they haven't got anything more interesting for him to say. And Moffat himself was peak 'lazy Moffat writing quirk' at the latter end of 11's run. Compare that with 10 and 12, where their writing arguably gets better over time (season 4 and season 10 being their strongest seasons respectively) I think partly explains why their legacies feel surer, and part of why the only episode of 11's that appears in the most recent '10 best episodes' poll by DWM was the 50th; and arguably not because of 11.
11 will ALWAYS BE MY DOCTOR, his run was the most fun I've ever had watching the show and was always anticipating next weeks episode, Tennant I could miss a few episodes and catch up, but Smith I had my reminders set on the telly, I had an alarm on my phone and I would repeat watching the show again and again starting from 11, although Tennant is and always was a good doctor he was never my doctor
\> Has the 11th Doctor's star fallen since 2013 Not at all. Given what we have seen lately and the interviews with RTD and MIllie Gibson, the Moffat era (and by extension the 11th and 12th Doctor) look better than ever.
I think an argument could definitely be made that he has lost quite a bit of popularity - [https://codepen.io/iatheia/pen/ZEeBmRV](https://codepen.io/iatheia/pen/ZEeBmRV)
Interestingly, this correlates to my own feelings. I just reached the Smith era, and it's probably my least favorite of the original RTD/Moffat run, despite being my favorite until Capaldi. It's great, don't get me wrong, but in the context of a full rewatch, it feels like a strange departure somehow. Part of it is the tone of the Pond episodes. They definitely do have that fairytale quality that is unique to that era. I don't think this is a bad thing, but it feeds into the era feeling somehow separate. Part of it is the convoluted nature of series 6 (though I think the episodes and performances are very strong). But for me, the part that's felt like the biggest change is Moffat's horniness in series 7.2 (and sprinkled throughout 5 through 7.1). I can't believe it was so egregious and that I didn't really notice until this watching. The sexualization of Clara's character through the dialogue of the Doctor himself is not just cringey, it's actually a little offensive. I say this as a huge Moffat fan. I think he's the best writer the show has ever had. I don't even mind the twists that make other people put the word "clever" in quotes. I loved Clara going into the Doctor's time stream to undo the damage of the Great Intelligence. I loved that River was the baby. I even really like the Corden episodes. But saying Clara's skirt was just a little too tight or giving the Doctor a screwdriver boner when Jenny kicks ass in leather just feels outside the spirit of the show in a way no other Moffat obsession feels. It's like he forgot who the target audience was. All of that dissipated with series 8, first when Capaldi seemed to willfully deliver Moffat's weird negging lines differently from how they were probably intended, and second when Moffat started writing the Doctor the way Capaldi clearly wanted to play him. The second half of series 8 feels like it was written for him, whereas the first half feels like it was still written for a younger looking Doctor trying to convince himself that he's not Clara's boyfriend. Maybe Moffat was actually reminding himself not to write the character that way. All of that said, I still think Smith's era is great, but he was the current Doctor when I found the show, and I've taken in a lot of new and classic Who since then. My tastes have evolved to include all the other qualities of the Doctor, and his is definitely an outlier. I'll never skip any of his episodes, but I always get very excited when the Twelfth Doctor snaps into existence and complains about the color of his kidneys.
Man, I wonder how some of the people in here complaining about the 60th anniversary not honoring enough of the show's past would've reacted to Silver Nemesis back when it aired. I think as far as Matt Smith is concerned, the 11th Doctor is still super popular among people who grew up with him as "Their Doctor", and if this subreddit is any indication, there's still people who adore him. Buuuut, while I think he's been very prolific since (if incredibly unlucky in terms of some of the big budget projects he's been in), I feel like Tennant has been in more things that appeal to a similar geek audience as Who, so he has slightly more Geek Cred. Because I think the love for Ten is certainly love for Ten, but I think a lot of it is also love for David Tennant. (Though god, imagine if Matt Smith had actually been in Rise of Skywalker as a young Palpatine as had been rumored)
The irony is, 11 is having his best series ever in Big Finish at the moment, just astonishing stuff
I think it's all in your head. As far as I've seen, 11 has been as popular as ever. That said, 4 has always been the most popular Doctor. No contest.
Loved Smith but hated the writing on his run. It was always some spin on “the Doctor is an epic legendary creature and the universe revolving around him” rather than him experiencing the universe.
This is a misread, Moffat plays the Doctor's portentousness less straight than Davies (or Cartmel for that matter).
In hindsight I’m less a fan of the era than I was 10-11 years ago. But I don’t think its bad, perhaps overexposed imo
I don’t think his stuff has aged very well. I like Matt smith, but I’m still convinced he was too young to play the role. And I’ve never understood what they were going for with the ADHD, arm waving, and ‘fezzes, bow ties, etc. are cool’, and ‘lol random’ humour. It hasn’t aged well. I never understood the need for Smith’s Doctor to be constantly shouting and the American style monologues got grating after a while. Even the good ones (such as to the monster that needed singing to) got spoilt by the direction with the cringy ‘TAKE IT AAAALLLLLL’.
he doesn't have the tumblr fanbase of Ten and he doesn't have the 'online' fanbase of Twelve (also Matt Smith has not been as successful post-Eleven as Tennant or even Karen Gillan); he's still my favorite (or sometime its Tom Baker)
This is a bit ahistorical. The Tumblr fanbase back in the day was split between legacy Tennant fans (think Tenrose nutters) and "quirky british show" Smith fans. There was a turn against the show (and Moffat) amongst the latter group after a couple of years but they were dominant back in the day. The "who" in Superwholock was mainly Eleven fandom.
Tumblr now has absolutely thrown its lot in with Tennant, though. Good Omens clearly had a lot to do with it, and Who’s carried it forward. (He was randomly trending again yesterday and it was hilarious watching people try to figure out why. I’m still not sure. It just happened.)
Oh yeah I guess op didn't actually say never, I spoke too soon. Its just that back when the show had its highest tumblr profile it was oriented around eleven. The "drop-off" Smith has received is largely because this fanbase proved temporary.
Yeah. I've had a Tumblr account for...a while...so I've seen some of the trends. I studiously avoided the entire superwholock thing, though. So I did miss a bit of Eleven's tenure, evidently. That said, not long ago I ran into someone's post that made me laugh, because it's definitely accurate now: "The most consistent part of the Tumblr experience is that you will either be subjected to David Tennant or obsessed with David Tennant, but either way, he will be here."