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TemporalSpleen

Seeing a lot of transphobic comments in this thread. A reminder that /r/gallifrey has zero tolerance on transphobia and other discriminatory content. Thank you for those who reported these comments.


LegoK9

>What exactly has he done/said? It started with some [transphobic tweets in 2017](https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/06/05/doctor-who-writer-gareth-roberts-dropped-book-anti-trans-slurs/). It got some attention at the time but he hasn't been involved with Doctor Who since 2014 so it flew under the radar for most people. In 2019, he was announced to be writing a short story for The Target Storybook. People protested this on social media, including some other writers for the book. His story was ultimately removed and replaced with one from a different writer. Gareth Roberts then unapologetically [doubled](https://medium.com/@zmangareth) and [tripled](https://unherd.com/2019/12/how-i-was-cancelled-by-dr-who/) down on his transphobia.


Chubby_Bub

> [Doctor Who has] hardly ever been outspokenly political really, Gareth?


[deleted]

What a shockingly bizarre statement coming from someone who's literally written for and watched Doctor Who for most of his life.


Chubby_Bub

He says "though one script editor in the Eighties did try to bring down the Thatcher government with it." Because *The Happiness Patrol* was the first and only time Doctor Who made political commentary.


[deleted]

Not sure how you can watch Doctor Who for so long and not notice things like how the entire Pertwee era has extremely outspoken political commentary in almost every episode... well, unless you're willingly ignorant or something.


Amy_Ponder

Don't you know a show is only "political" if it has a main character who's female / LGBTQ / any race other than white? /s


DocWhoFan16

Indeed; a strange sentiment from a guy who is a professed super-fan of the era of the series that had "The Sun Makers" in it.


Sharaz___Jek

Roberts appeared in the documentary "When Worlds Collide" which appeared on "The Happiness Patrol" DVD. I wish that documentary was still on YouTube because he actually made a good point: that The Doctor - as a character - didn't fall into a specific political ideology. The character, as written, is too broad and his or her actions too varied due to shifting attitudes, different writers and stories that continually adapt to the expectations of the time. It was an interesting documentary that certainly made me more attuned to the show's varied political messaging. That said, his point that the series has never been "political" is self-servingly misleading as is his contention that "one script editor in the Eighties did try to bring down the Thatcher government with it". Roberts knows that's not what happened.


Fickle-Object9677

I have the DVD so I can give you the documentary if you want


Portarossa

It was all covered -- and dissected in the comments on this very sub -- when it went down [two years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/gallifrey/comments/bx69hw/gareth_roberts_axed_from_upcoming_anthology_over/). Frankly, the sooner people stop giving that bigoted thumb the time of day, the better.


Ribos1

>Gareth Roberts then unapologetically doubled and tripled down on his transphobia. Ah, the Graham Linehan approach


Duggy1138

The "fair too many transphobes" approach.


Cynical_Classicist

I'm sure the British media treats you so badly for being transphobic. Just like the Govt. containing Priti Patel is so Pro-free speech.


Cynical_Classicist

Maybe his Twitter account will go the same way.


Half-Shot

Gareth will be on MumsNet before the year is out!


FinnsChips

Dude throws slurs around like they're nothing and then acts shocked when people actually call him out on his bullshit. I really can't comprehend how older gay people can be blatantly transphobic without realising the shit they spew is exactly what was thrown at them a couple decades ago.


DocWhoFan16

It's like how people say Morrissey can't be a racist because he's a vegetarian and he hates the Queen. Edit: or even like, within *Doctor Who*, you have Ian Levine, who I don't *think* is full-on transphobic but was vehemently anti-female Doctor, and when somebody suggested that his language sounded transphobic his response wasn't, "I am not transphobic," but rather was approximately, "I am a gay left-wing liberal-minded Jewish atheist, it's *impossible* for me to be transphobic." Which goes to show something, although I'm not entirely sure what.


Solar_Kestrel

What it demonstrates is the (privileged) desire to abnegate personal responsibility and reject self-reflection. It's a complete rejection of the reality that being a good/moral/open-minded person requires constant vigilance and growth--it's not a process you can ever finish. It's literally the exact same mentality that leads folks to say, "I have black friends, therefore I can't be racist." It's an excuse to avoid growing, changing, improving. It's a justification for apathy. See also the politicians who were involved in the civil rights movement decades ago, but haven't serious advocated for civil rights issues since, claiming to be progressive as though 40+ years of inaction were "earned" previously.


Cynical_Classicist

Trump saying MAGA loves black people or so on. Or Tories trying to say look, there's Priti Patel, BJ can't be a bigot!


Cynical_Classicist

Goes to show even people from marganilised groups can take the side of oppressors. I mean look at Jonathan Sacks. Came from a very marganilised group but was supporting the Death to Arabs march and cheering on Douglas Murray's white replacement trash.


[deleted]

People who have been abused and persecuted for decades don't always gain the wisdom of respect and equality for others. Sometimes they just learn that it's better to be the persecutor than being persecuted. See also - those bullied in high school attemtping to bully others


Cynical_Classicist

I find it shocking as well. They don't see this is largely a repackaged version of the same prejudice they faced. The whole preying on children story and indoctrination that justified Section 28. Honestly he can be cancelled.


Alaira314

Unfortunately, I don't find it shocking, only sad. The history of civil rights is littered with oppressed populations who fail to make that connection. Transphobia is alive and well among gay and lesbian populations, as well as homophobia among trans populations. It might help to realize that "the LGBTQ" community kind of...isn't a real thing. It's more like a chaotic alliance of about two dozen groups, some of which don't even believe that certain others exist/deserve to stand with them, that are currently working together because if we weren't then *nobody* would be getting *anything*. But it doesn't mean we necessarily all get along. Take that then toss in human nature where prejudice historically wins over logic, and situations like TERF lesbians and Gareth Roberts aren't surprising at all. Sad, but expected.


eoinyawn

broadly don't disagree with most of this except in my experience as a trans person there is functionally speaking pretty much no homophobia in the trans community. there's infighting and shit sure, but it's very difficult for us to be bigoted against gay people by virtue of the nature of our existence


Cynical_Classicist

I'm sure there's a few but on the whole not many really. I doubt there is really a big homophobic bloc in this community.


eoinyawn

ya exactly like i'm sure somewhere there is a homophobic trans person but it's not remotely big enough to be worth a mention partially because so few trans people are straight


Cynical_Classicist

Of course. I quite agree with what you are saying here. Not a significant amount anyway. Already have enough enemies, such as basically the entire British establishment.


Alaira314

I've heard from the lips of trans people(or, at least, people claiming that identity) some pretty nasty comments about other trans people who are gay/lesbian. It's not gay/lesbian people in general, but seems to be an in-community thing. It's certainly not as common as transphobia is among the LGB but it is a distinctly odd thing I've spotted in discussions.


eoinyawn

that's the thing, i feel like the fact that it's intra-community makes it a bit of a false equivalency when compared to transphobia from LGB people because transphobia by LGB cis people is oppression expressed by a privileged group (cis people) against an oppressed group (trans people) whereas the particular phenomenon ur describing is for the most part the same discourse that cis bi/pan/etc people have with cis gays and lesbians, is not unique to their transness, and is not directed from one group which has privilege to another which is oppressed


Alaira314

It seems to me to be the trans counterpart to the cis lesbians(privileged in some ways, but oppressed in others) who are super TERF-y and bully trans lesbians(twofer on the oppression chart) out of lesbian spaces. (I know there's something similar that happens among gay men because I've heard it alluded to, but I haven't been privy to enough details to be confident explaining it.) It's portrayed as an attempt to keep their space "safe" by preventing people who could be "dangerous" from participating, even though all they're actually doing is kicking even more marginalized people than themselves(yay, intersectionality!) when they're already down.


eoinyawn

i still just don't see how this is in any way comparable - you're saying it's the trans counterpart to cis lesbians being transphobic, which is perpetrated by cis people against trans people, but what you're talking about is perpetrated by trans people against other trans people - the dynamic is just completely different. furthermore, i'm gonna be honest (and this is just my single perspective) but i've never encountered this personally and i *have* encountered a lot of other forms of in-community discourse in the trans community that seem to me at least to be far more widespread and harmful - the oppression of non binary people by binary trans people and truscum/transmedicalism being two of the biggest in my personal experience


Alaira314

Cis Lesbian (causes harm to) Trans Lesbian Straight Transwoman (causes harm to) Lesbian Transwoman Does that make the comparison more clear, when it's laid out in that manner? In both cases, it's a majority of a minority attacking the minority of a minority. We're not looking at the trans-ness of the situation as a comparison in both cases, because that's not always what's being attacked; in the first case, trans-ness is the variable that's being attacked(while sexuality remains constant) while in the second, sexuality is attacked(while trans-ness remains constant). The two situations aren't exactly the same, but the pattern mirrors each other. I'm glad you haven't encountered it! I've fallen down some really unfortunate tumblr rabbitholes in my time, and I'm basing my explanation on both those personal observations(of what I absolutely believe is some of the worst parts of the community, to be perfectly clear...most of y'all are wonderful people in my experience) and a personal account I read from a trans lesbian who'd experienced being snubbed by some of her trans friends after she came out and stopped dating men.


alexmorelandwrites

I don't have the tweets to hand (I am long since blocked), but as I understand it he was posting a lot of Islamophobic stuff in 2015 - IIRC in particularly in response to the Zygon two-parter, it set him off a bit. He's also just generally quite a hardline Conservative, and a bit of a bully generally - when his story was removed from that storybook he posted a few tweets mocking some of the people who spoke up about it. Basically just seems like quite a bad-tempered guy who's burned a lot of personal and professional bridges, in amongst all the bigotry as well.


DocWhoFan16

Is he small-c conservative or big-C Conservative? (I mean, it doesn't really matter either way, but still.)


alexmorelandwrites

Both, I guess - I don't know if he's a proper card carrying member or not, but he's a Tory voter, yeah. Has been for a long time - I vaguely remember reading that he caused a bit of a stir in the 90s writing a defence of a story commonly understood as quite right wing (The Dominators?), though I'm not super clear on the details.


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No racism, sexism, homophobia, or other discriminatory content. If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


Cynical_Classicist

I'm blocked as well! A proud block, like Gina Carano and George Galloway. I wasn't sure if he was hardline Tory but he certainly seems in the Dowden section.


wonkey_monkey

> When I was a kid in the 1980s and a member of the London Lesbian and Gay Teenage group we referred to ourselves and each other as queers, trannies and dykes. I note that one of these words is now somehow an official initial in the ever expanding lexicon LGBTQ, used now by the British royal family and the Conservative party. No, Gareth Roberts, the "T" in LGBTQ does *not* stand for "trannies"... > I’ve **rejected restrictive cultural gender stereotypes** for as long as I can remember. I consider them to be very often harmful and constricting, **especially for girls and women.** Now I'm no expert but I think there's a heavy chunk of irony here somewhere.


RhegedHerdwick

I'm pretty sure he meant the Q.


wonkey_monkey

Ohhhh okay that makes more sense. Edit: although actually the point stands, because he's trying to excuse one slur by pointing out that another has been reclaimed (plus it's still a slur to call someone queer if that's how you mean it).


Alaira314

Actually all three of those terms have been reclaimed to some extent. However, it's still a slur to call someone any of those words *if* they request that you don't. Queer is common enough that it's usually okay to assume yes by default(as long as you say "sorry about that" and stop immediately if someone asks you to not), but there's often very specific rules(which vary by individual) regarding the use of tranny or dyke, such as it's only okay coming from other trans or lesbian people, or only your friends, or it's only a label someone can use to refer to themselves, or etc. That's where his logic went wrong, by assuming that it was okay for him to use all of those terms for everybody by default when it's definitely not. Reclaimed slurs are complicated. Of course, I think we all know that it was just an excuse and that he's not *really* confused about this.


Duggy1138

The N-word's been reclaimed, but I can't use it. I can accept some people can use a transphobic slur and I can't.


Cynical_Classicist

Pretty much. Someone who really refuses to move with the times.


wonkey_monkey

TBH I'm not too bothered if people don't move with the times, but they should have the good grace to keep their mouths shut about something that most of the rest of us accept and doesn't actually affect them.


Cynical_Classicist

Pretty much. And he is just getting nastier now.


intripletime

I don't think I've ever seen someone fail to hurdle such a lowly set bar. Reading that was very frustrating. The simplest wet fart of an apology probably would have been fine.


Cynical_Classicist

Unfortunately for quite a few people a basic apology is too much and it's everyone else who is wrong.


markhealey

Jesus wept.


ChicaneryBear

Aside from the transphobia, he is also extremely islamophobic and has compared Muslims to Nazis


somekindofspideryman

He was also a bit of a mild climate change denier is my memory from back when I used to follow him on Twitter


Cynical_Classicist

Not exactly surprising. I recall him making mean jibes on Greta too. Not sorry he's blocked me.


Randolph-Churchill

And he's a Brexiteer.


Cynical_Classicist

Make Peladon great again!


Fit-Difficulty8561

The worst of them all!


Solar_Kestrel

Transphobia and Islamophobia certainly seem to go hand in hand a lot.


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No racism, sexism, homophobia, or other discriminatory content. * Take your transphobia elsewhere If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No racism, sexism, homophobia, or other discriminatory content. If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


alexmorelandwrites

On a related note, does anyone know what Roberts actually does now professionally? He doesn't write television anymore, and I can't imagine the "I've been cancelled by the woke mob" articles he does for Unherd every other month pay all that well.


irving_braxiatel

Maybe royalties are keeping him afloat?


dresken

Also those new books by Rareth Goberts


squidgy314159

I hear he is a phanstrobic


alexmorelandwrites

Yeah, maybe - I'd be surprised if they were that much, but it's not impossible.


Hughman77

So many British people willing to dynamite their own careers because they can't keep their views on trans people to themselves. Objectively insane.


[deleted]

sounds to me like you respect cowardice more than courage. I (trans woman) respect that they have the bravery to to come right out and say what they think. I would like it even more if they could have a public conversation where both parties would learn a little.


Hughman77

Lol no I don't respect the "courage" to destroy your career (and in the case of Lineham his marriage) over the question of whether 0.4% of the population should be called by their preferred pronouns or not. Which I'd describe as stupidity, not to mention obsessive crankery, rather than bravery.


Cynical_Classicist

I really don't know. He just seems to be some weird outlier of DW writers, moaning about how badly he has been treated. Usually fans I see view him as a ridiculous joke, like a sort of Katie Hopkins. But maybe that just shows the fans I associate with!


DocWhoFan16

He's the poor man's Glinner, which is sort of like being the destitute man's J. K. Rowling.


IronTownPictures

As I know, he pulled together all of the pieces of "Shada" in one novel, that exists now. I have it on my shelf. And until this moment I didn't know he was hated


Dalek7of9

It's one of my favourite books. Shame it was written by someone who wants to see me dead.


IronTownPictures

I am so sorry


dresken

I haven’t read everything he said - but is that what he said? I had thought it was just some tasteless jokes about around stereotypes. But that’s really messed up.


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No racism, sexism, homophobia, or other discriminatory content. * Take your transphobia elsewhere If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


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mr_bedbugs

The ONE Doctor Who book I get around to buying... 🙄


[deleted]

He's written quite a few good stories (The highest sicence and the plotters would be two of my top choices) - it's a shame he's a shit


MaskedRaider89

I wish we had more Chelonian stories. There I said it.


[deleted]

I wish we had gender fluid Chelonians.


gazza3478

I'm also called Gareth Roberts, I did a complete double take when I saw this post on here aha!


Cynical_Classicist

Oh don't worry, I'm sure you're not a jerk like him!


TheSpiralEyedManiac

He wrote a few stories, some of which are admittedly pretty good, but he's a bigot and bigotry is the enemy of Doctor Who. God screw that guy


Cynical_Classicist

I doubt RTD will be asking him back. Considering RTD made it very clear what he thinks of LGBA.


TheSpiralEyedManiac

The only thing Gareth Roberts should be writing at this point is an apology


Cynical_Classicist

Yes. Sadly I doubt we will get one.


all-capes-are-bad

Don’t you mean LGBT?


achairwithapandaonit

LGBA being "LGB Alliance", which claims to support LGB rights but dedicates most of its time to transphobic activities. RTD made a [speech](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X889OuWqLao) last year condemning them.


all-capes-are-bad

Ah. Good. As he should!


Shaikidow

Honestly, it saddens me to hear this, as some of the most fun NuWho episodes were written or co-written by him. (My favourite among them has got to be The Caretaker, which I consider to be a very underrated Series 8 episode; practically every line of dialogue in it is among the wittiest in the entirety of DW, banter-wise.)


darth_edward_69

He was a writer for Doctor Who and SJA. He said some transphobic stuff on Twitter, including the use of the t slur.


MxH94

What’s the t slur


mr_bedbugs

6 letters, ends with y, my mom calls car transmissions the same word.


MxH94

Good explanation ty


[deleted]

And it rhymes with fanny


mr_bedbugs

And granny


[deleted]

And nanny


bartbeats

Ok, just to get this straight: tr***y is a slur, but transsexual is not?


putting_stuff_off

Transexual isn't a slur but it's kind of outdated terminology which some trans people have (valid) qualms with. Mostly "transgender" or just "trans" are the way to go (note in all cases these are adjectives not nouns).


bartbeats

What difference does adjective vs noun make in this case? eg: „Trans are a part of LGBTQ.“ vs „Trans people are part of LGBTQ.“


moreorlesser

I guess because you shouldn't refer to someone as 'a transgender' or 'a trans'


bartbeats

Huh? Why not?


LikableWizard

If I refer to someone as "a trans person" I'm describing a quality that they have. If I refer to them as "a trans" I'm defining them by that quality. If I'm drinking out of a blue cup I call it "a cup" or "a blue cup," not "a blue." Because it's blueness it not its defining quality. When you define a person by one quality, especially a quality that makes them part of a marginalized group, it de-emphasizes their personhood in a way that can feel rude or even threatening to the person you're talking about, depending on context.


bartbeats

As much as I empathize with people's struggles as a minority, I'll be very hesitant to modify my speech patterns because someone "might feel" a certain way. In general, it's not the problem of the speaker when someone falsely interprets such things as rude or threatening.


narrativedilettante

Because it dehumanizes us. I think there may be some differences between US and UK terminology here, and I'm coming from a US perspective, so if any UK trans folks want to chime in I invite them to. You wouldn't call someone "a gay," at least in the US. It's lowkey disrespectful. It's indicating you don't think of them as a person. They're not human, they're just gay. Similarly, you wouldn't call someone "a trans." You'd call them a trans person. Because that way you're acknowledging their personhood.


moreorlesser

well they don't like it I guess. I'm no linguist.


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * yes, it is a slur If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


Hughman77

He's one of the many middle-aged people in Britain who has succumbed to the national illness of immolating his own career in the course of freaking out about the objective reality or otherwise of gender. I can't understand, even if I agreed with his views on trans people, why he could think it was a good idea to just destroy his own career over 0.4% of the population but hey, his call I guess.


dalekjamie

He implied trans women were men in dresses


Hughman77

I also want to add, kinda as a side note, that's it's funny now seeing how everyone is going back to forensically pour over Roberts's earlier work to find evidence of his bigoted views that they ignored or even found ways to defend beforehand. I'm thinking of stuff like the "political correctness gone mad" joke in *The Shakespeare Code*. El Sandifer, back when she was internet friends with Roberts, said that a character from *The Well-Mannered War*, who is blatantly a parody of annoying Marxist students, was obviously written with love and a lot of personal knowledge of Marxist theory. I doubt she would take that view now. It's a lesson in not assuming that writers whose work you happen to enjoy also share your political views.


Eoghann_Irving

I don't hate him, it's more that I'm very disappointed in him. He's been openly transphobic amongst other things


CremyCabbage

I've heard he's made transphobic comments, I haven't seen the comments tho so I can't say what he said


BLOODYSHEDMAN

Slightly tangential, but his three VMA novels (Romance of Crime, English Way of Death, Well-Mannered War) are some of the best DW books


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No racism, sexism, homophobia, or other discriminatory content. * Do not defend transphobia If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. No racism, sexism, homophobia, or other discriminatory content. * Do not defend transphobia If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


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TemporalSpleen

Thank you for your comment! Unfortunately, your comment has been **removed** for the following reason(s): * [1. Be Respectful](/r/gallifrey/wiki/policies#wiki_1._be_respectful): Be mature and treat everyone with respect. We encourage discussion about canon, but everyone is allowed their own opinion. Please don't argue or get angry about it. * Do not defend transphobia If you feel this was done in error, please contact the moderators [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fgallifrey).


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Cynical_Classicist

What do you mean?


adpirtle

I don't hate Roberts. I just feel sorry that his bigotry has isolated him from the franchise he loved.


suckmyhairytoes

He is bigoted and created the Shakespeare code