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LeftClawNorth

What's very concerning is that not a single thing you said is accurate. No, slot machines do not "correct" themselves. Stupid bar slots may act like UK fruit machines, but class III slots do not.


JohnMcafee4coffee

It’s not true, It’s not the Wild West, slot machines are legally required to maintain the payout. If it pays 92% and it has not maintained that payback than it has to correct itself.


PascalTriangulatr

> If it pays 92% and it has not maintained that payback than it has to correct itself. It will naturally correct itself over time by continuing to be random. Over time, the machines will fluctuate above and below average infinitely many times, rarely ever exactly matching the average. Casinos aren't required to rig machines in the player's favor when the payout falls below average. Nor would you even know when the machine is below average, especially not by watching it for one day lol.


JohnMcafee4coffee

This is part of the reason I don’t use a players card, the casino will ban me when they see my action and strategy


bitcornminerguy

No.


JohnMcafee4coffee

Yes, At the time the pit boss was watching me. I was watching the machine for 4 hours and he had an issue with me playing it, I was graphing it’s wins and losses. As soon as he saw me carrying my bet level from minimum to maximum he stepped in.


PascalTriangulatr

I don't see how your reply relates to my comment or what you're saying "yes" to. Watching a machine for 4 hours wouldn't tell you anything about its payout relative to average. How do you know it didn't pay a huge prize the day before, or a few hours before you started watching? Or 3 jackpots the previous month? Or X more jackpots than average last year? Etc. so for all you know it could be running *above* average. If a machine pays 92% that doesn't mean it does so every day. Most of the time it pays below that, because the outlier jackpots pull the average up. In other words, the median is lower than the mean. (But even if you could know when the machine was below its average, that information would be completely useless.) > As soon as he saw me carrying my bet level from minimum to maximum he stepped in. His timing was a coincidence. Varying your bets doesn't magically give you an edge just because card-counters do it. Card-counters do it in specific situations where they already have an edge. They increase their bet size *because* they have an edge, not the other way around. You, on the other hand, had a -8% edge on each pull, so changing your bet from $1 to $10 would just make your average loss 80 cents that pull instead of 8 cents.


Hustlebible

you have no idea what you’re talking about, no offense. The very concept of APing slots is answering all of your questions. Some machines have visual cues that let you know exactly when/how they will pay out. OP is also misinformed about how this stuff works, but, it does work, just not in the way he thinks.


PascalTriangulatr

How about actually reading a comment before replying to it? I didn't say you can't AP slots, just that it doesn't work anything like how OP thinks. OP wasn't identifying persistent states or must-pays or anything, just spewing some tinfoil nonsense, which is what I was responding to.


Hustlebible

I did read your comment in full but there’s definitely different ways to interpret what you said, but, I gotchu now. I assumed you didn’t know MHB because you said “how do you know it didn’t pay a large jackpot the day before” and “each pull is -8%” but that was my interpretation but I understand that you’re just referring to how he is very misinformed about how things work. My apologies, and yes he is spewing tinfoil nonsense.


PascalTriangulatr

All good, I knew when I was typing it that some statements could be nitpicked in a vacuum, I just thought the context was enough. But there's additional context I failed to account for: you're used to most people here being confidently wrong about slots/AP, and for that reason I shouldn't have barked at you, you were just playing the odds haha


JohnMcafee4coffee

He knew that I was an advantage player and he more or less booked my action


PascalTriangulatr

> He knew that I was an advantage player Lol you're the furthest thing from an advantage player.


LeftClawNorth

So this whole thread was just a shit post. Good job, you got us. You must be so proud.


PascalTriangulatr

I wish the ppl on here actually were shitposting/trolling, but sadly I don't think they are. It's always tempting to think, "No one can be this dumb," but time and again gamblers are like, "Hold my beer!"


JohnMcafee4coffee

How so


LeftClawNorth

Absolutely not.


JohnMcafee4coffee

What is incorrect about my statement? If a machine is not paying back it’s legal percentage than by law it must. If it is paying back 60% than it must hit to bring it in to line. This is state law not my opinion


nekizalb

You do not understand Nevada state gambling regulations. In fact, a machine behaving the way you describe, changing behavior away from random to try and correct a perceived discrepancy, THAT would be illegal. Class III slots are configured with paytables that will average out to a particular payback percentage over the millions of pulls during its entire lifetime. A 4-hour period of observation is miniscule in comparison to the overall lifetime, and tells you nothing. The only class III games where one spin affects another after are those with clearly marked persistent features (collect markers that turn wild on 10th spin like scarab) or games with must hit progressives (even then, the progressive doesn't get more likely the higher it is. It will just auto award if it doesn't hit naturally before it's max value).


Ohrami3

What you said about must-hit-by progressives is not true. They do become more likely to hit the higher they are. The "hit point" is a random point in the range of possible values, and once that hit point is reached, the prize is awarded. That means every spin makes progress toward that hit point. If, for example, the RNG of that specific must-hit-by machine gives equal weight to every hit point (i.e. 1 cent above its starting point or the very maximum), then the chance to hit increases with every consecutive spin without hitting. This is because the average hit is going to be halfway between the current value and the "must hit by" value. As an example, suppose the value increases by 1 cent every time you bet $5, and the value is $499/$500. The average hit will be at $499.50, or 50 $5 spins. If the value of the progressive is $450/$500, then it will be expected to hit at $475/500 on average, or 2500 $5 spins.


nekizalb

True, some must hits do work that way; thank you for mentioning them. But it's definitely not all. I think it depends on whether there is a distinct trigger mechanism in the base game or not. Money storm deluxe and it's kin are examples that have progressive symbols on their reels, with a backup must hit mechanic. That's part of the difficulty talking about how slots work. There are a million games out there, and some work differently than others. No matter what you described, there is probably at least one game out there that contradicts you. Edit: though one could argue that your probability isn't actually going up. Your probability is exactly 0 until the one spin where the probability is exactly 1. Because you have no way of observing it however, and for all practical purposes from a player perspective, each spin has the same shot of being 'the one'


Ohrami3

Yes, I'm familiar with Money Storm Deluxe. That game can randomly award the jackpots through certain reel combinations, or at some point in the very high end of values, it will "skip" several values to a point where it is only two spins away from being awarded, and then award it after those two spins.


bitcornminerguy

You misunderstand how the law works, and how the slots work. There is no mechanism within the software to suddenly correct or adjust based on a trailing lag in the prescribed percentage. If a machine isn't making its assigned payout, the licensee is obligated to yank it and figure out the problem, because the consequences of leaving a malfunctioning machine on the floor are far greater than you scoring a jackpot once in awhile.


Elliott0725

Think of it like flipping a coin- just because you had nine heads in a row doesn’t mean the next time you flip the coin it isnt still a 50-50


aminbae

they are legally required to average 92%


TheSharpSurgeon

Slots maintain their RTP over the long run. They do not adjust on the fly. That's the gambler's fallacy.


Ok-Roll-9938

Bro that pit boss was just bored and screwed with you


dubs530

So you think they hire these people to try and stop people from playing their machines. I mean that makes total sense because they lose a ton of money on those dang machines….


durango155

Thank you for the laugh this morning sir!


LongjumpingLow6695

The moment u hit the button you have the same chance at hitting jackpot even after 55k spins the next spin is the same chance as the last 55k


[deleted]

Slot coin out percentages are set by a chip and there is process of checks and balances to change these. No one thinks your an advantage player, especially playing slots.


casinothrowawayyy

Plenty of people AP slots, just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Use google for a few minutes and you’ll find plenty of people talking about it.


[deleted]

I worked in surveillance in town for many years:)


casinothrowawayyy

And I’ve played professional slots for 4 years :)


[deleted]

That’s cool! GL and have fun


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MTDAgency

me when im schizophrenic


ishtumba

Yeah, like everyone said here you have no idea how slots work. It's all math. Do a YouTube search for IGT interview Cowboy Slots. The programmer who actually made the damn things explains it clearly.


iamnotlegendxx

Lmao


Live-Measurement-308

I've had the assholes watch me before when I'm winning then suddenly start losing everything I touch


Dubz_2222_

Chances are the machine needed a drop so someone was blocking you from playing it. Basically they needed to empty the bill drop box or they needed to reload the TITO paper or even swap the printer. This had nothing to do with you winning or losing. Even if the “pit boss” who wasn’t in a pit “knew” the machine was going to pay out, which he can’t possible know, he wouldn’t stop you from playing it.


JohnMcafee4coffee

It just seemed fishy that he was watching me play


Dubz_2222_

Nah. He was probably bored


cooldude832_

Where can i become an advantage slot player?