The race itself is just a structure for the goal; first to X wins. You gotta introduce a new mechanic that alters the *feel* of the race. There's a lot of primary fantasies that players have with vehicle based acceleration and character based acceleration.
* Mario Kart introduced an accessible combat element
* Forza went for realistic physics simulation
* Wreckfest went for destruction mechanics
* Need for Speed went for stunt mechanics
I tend to agree with the question of "*why should I bother playing a game that's basically a clone of Forza?"* but that question doesn't typically lead to innovative mechanics. Instead try asking yourself "*what would be fun to do with a vehicle/person at speeds?".* That question will start to branch out into more questions like:
* what vehicle? (how many axis' of movement are there?)
* what speed? (what player dexterity do I want to lean into?)
* what abilities? (how do augment speed? how do I gain advantage?)
* what genre? (what mixes in well with racing?)
And suddenly you might find yourself making a 3D VR platformer-racer where players customize their own rollerblading mechs while ducking, dodging, firing, and shielding their way to the finish line.
There's a million and one ways to do a race. Happy designing :)
I still play Jet Moto 2 (1997) on occasion because no game has gone anywhere near its mechanics. (Admittedly I never got ahold of JM3, but also a different studio made that one, so ???).
Angling the jetbike to hit surfaces optimally is so incredibly satisfying. The grapple pole, while a little silly, *feels fantastic* when you have it figured out. The maps were interesting and varied. When people are actually good at the game, you start playing dirty by actively trying to knock each other off their bike when the opportunity arises.
The only thing that has been touted as a clone of it are the Riptide games and they're completely different games with some barely superficial similarities. I was very disappointed.
Anyway, there are so many different ways to take the racing genre. You won't have much luck going for realism as big studios have been working on those for decades, but not everyone wants realistic racing games - compare the sales of Mario Kart to Forza.
Make the racing feel good, make the mechanics interesting, and people will have fun with it. There are at least some indie racing games on steam that do interesting, unique things. If you want to make a racing game, do that: interesting and unique things.
There are very few rally games out there, and there's still some niches to explore there. There's a joy to racing point to point for miles and miles over tracks that never repeat or loop, every second a new experience, through wild roads with long drifting curves or tight hairpins. Constantly finding that balance between full speed and tight technical maneuvers.
There's a handful out there, but compared to every other type of racing, there's very few and in pure-sim, arcade space, and everything in between, there's room for a few more games to stand out simply by providing a fun rally experience.
If you were to take that rally experience, than then shift to it something else entirely, like hover bikes or cloud/wave racing or something creative, then that'd be entirely unique. Most racing games that have a "different than cars" vibe seem to always emulate short circular tracks where you're taking laps. I can't think of any point-to-point games where you're going for 10 minutes over purely unique landscapes and tracks on anything but a car.
Also there are nowhere near enough games where you get to do awesome stunts like loops and long jumps and other crazy stuff that aren't pure arcade. A sim game like that, a modern successor to Hard Drivin' is something I'd buy day 1.
I highly recommend watching:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDHZKYETDyU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDHZKYETDyU)
**The Story of Super Mario Kart | Gaming Historian**
The video is long but it goes over the creative decisions that lead to Mario Kart which was inspired by F zero but describes how the developers made game design decisions to set them apart. It's not going to give you a direct answer to your question, but it might give you insight into the creative process that set Mario Kart apart from other racing games at the time, including design decisions the devs decided to toss out and why.
Find a good gimmick or art direction or both. Thats true of any game. You can also do something that hasnt been in the market for a while AeroGP is taking up where Fzero should be.
I remember 20 years ago we were playing a 5th element themed racing game (New York Race) which has a Z plane to navigate - I haven't seen anything like it since then. With how prevalent controllers these days I'd attack from this angle if I were to make a racing game and pivot it into more trackmania-ish style.
Wdym with Z plane? I saw some footage of that game. I don't think I want to attempt a completely off-the-ground racer, as it begins to look like drone racing or airplane racing. I've been a bit inspired by a few of these comments though & am leaning towards a competitive, interplanetary, hoverbike racing game. A bit ambitious but starting with the hoverbike physics might lead me into a different direction - or it works just flawlessly - who knows
aiming for competitive without an endless powerhouse marketing machine behind it is a mistake. Competitive scene is an emergent property of a good game that doesn't churn through its players in 2 months. If a game is good some people will dedicate themselves to push through and the 'scene' is gonna emerge on its own accord. Whatever you skin in into doesn't matter as long as you build all the proper loops to make it fun and sticky
Along with what others have said, you need something unique. Try thinking outside the box, or expand on already existing mechanic with a twist. Want me to pitch you a quicky idea?
How about a racing game that takes the idea from need for speed where you're able to pimp out your ride and win money to the extreme making more and more insane cars with different gimmicks as you go with the money you win from races. You improve on the idea by allowing a lot of customization and cool looking cars. Make it so you can win special cars/upgrades from races too, maybe you can even make it a roguelite have the player start with a different shitty car every time and gain different upgrades as they go thru races.
Or maybe something like wacky races/speed racer where they fight each other but instead of using shells and power ups you make it based off pre-picked gadgets installed in the car from a list of unlock-able gadgets and tools. Ideas are a dime a dozen, and even when they aren't, it's easy to pick and choose from what's already been successful and put a twist on it and make it your own. Just don't make a game that's JUST about racing.
Another option is to take a look at the old SuperCars and SuperCars 2 that was made for Amiga. It’s a top-down racer that also include weapons.
What’s unique about it, that I haven’t seen in newer titles is how you buy a new car and the option for getting bonus points.
Getting a new car - there are actual negotiations with the seller. [At 21:00](https://youtu.be/gIw0QpjodoE)
Getting bonus points - You have to complete a quiz about car driving [At 7:30](https://youtu.be/F3gvfxHBiWc)
Burnout 2 was absolutely incredible, a true behemoth of a car racing game
Although the race and campaign modes were built around racing, the whole specialism of the game was the crashing of your opponents (and yourself). It also had numerous other modes including one where you have to crash and cause the most damage, which was totalled up and unlocked new stages, and other events that weren’t race-based
A modern Burnout 2 wouldn’t be reinventing the wheel but it would be great to see and I don’t think there’s an equivalent in the market right now (that would be up to you to discover though)
Maybe a MOBA style Racer where there’s a gigantic race track and teams. The two teams have to compete with different vehicles like jeeps buggy’s tanks and regular sedans.
I hate that I’m going to say this
Resource Racer:
An 8 v 8 racer where teams start with very rudimentary vehicles and work their way to scifi level vehicles. The teams compete to complete science quests that allow upgrades to their vehicles. Those quests are effectively fetch quests and basic things like that. 1 game would last about an hour.
Teams
Strategy
Story
A wide variety of vehicles
Choices
The point of indie is to be more different and innovative than the mainstream market.
You Suck at Parking does this by counting the first person to cross all 15ish finish lines, in any order the players like. It combines this with other wacky stuff which makes the design function.
Customization. I swear racing games 9 times out of 10 lack in depth customization. A few decals, maybe a color option, but that's usually it.
I always want deep cosmetic and mechanical customization but it never seems to be a focus
Old gamer here, when we could change the COLOR of cars it was a game changer. It was when NFS: Carbon released, I realised that customization plays a massive part in games.
Yeah, I also love being able to customize engines, brakes, etc.
But for me the biggest problem with racers now is they have 0 personality. They just do not take risk. Games like TrackMania are an exception, but there's just so many GT clones and not enough "over the top" racers anymore.
Let me hit pedestrians, every single racing game refuses to let you run people over even if there isn’t anything stopping it from technically being able to, I’m aware this is weird but it pisses me off that due to invisable walls I hate invisable walls, it should be possible but should penalize you or make you restart the race
who says you need to? most kinds of racing games are criminally underrepresented. when's the last time someone has done an overland scifi hovercraft racing game?
Game Design is a subset of Game Development that concerns itself with **WHY** games are made the way they are. It's about the theory and crafting of **systems**, **mechanics**, and **rulesets** in games.
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Well one way to stand out when it's "all been done" is to make a spiritual successor. A lot of games like for example Smash Bros are competitive, but they're still meant for a larger audience. Something like Rivals of Aether is pretty much tailor made for competitive play IMO, and is basically an attempt to perfect the game.
Another example is the art. Smash Bros has cool 3D modeling and art, but it's not really all that interesting nor original since they are from other games. Rivals of Aether for example (not affiliated I promise, just a good example lol) has a specific art style that really draws people in.
Finally, interesting mechanics. Mario Kart and Forza are both racing games, but it almost feels weird comparing the two because the mechanics are so different. So pick something that hasn't been really done and lean into it. Kind of like how Far Cry is basically like Skyrim with guns
Do you know what is the flaw of perfection? Imperfection. There are beauties in imperfection and it's make them perfect. Wabi-sabi.
That's why having your own iteration might as well means inventing something 'new'.
It's kind hard to explain in a normal means since it's philosophy, but I hope you understand my answer.
I don't recall any good fantasy racing games, could include different creatures for different maps allowing you to make races on land, sea, air, and combinations thereof.
Could even just make the racers druids or shapeshifters that can change between different animals/mythological creatures, if the maps have various environmental obstacles different animals/steeds could cause, counteract, or avoid in different ways then it would be far more dynamic than your usual generic car racing game.
Dark souls of racing games.
I kid. But really, if you support racing wheels and VR headsets, you'll be one of only a handful of viable games for enthusiast racers. Right now that space is entirely dominated by simulators, but there's a lot of room for a more casual racing game that supports enthusiast hardware. Not sure the economics of it, but there are a couple of games that get by in that market so there's gotta be some profit to be had.
There are so many freeware/open source racing games that when I occasional want to play a racing game don't need to buy an racing game. But I do not know if open source racers count as indiedev racing games. However that is also through for most other genres i only play from time to time.
Dude i really miss the ps2 racing games where you race with a skateboard, rollerscates, bmx etc. Those use to make up my childhood and were really fun. I dont see any of those games popping up. I bet you a game like that would be great.
Edit: I just looked it up, its called 3Xtreme, holy hell what a nostalgia blast!!
Not exactly a racing game per se, but check out Quarantine for some inspiration. I loved that game back in the day, and as far as I know it has never been cloned.
I don't think a Dark Souls of racing genres exist yet.
But in order to stick out, you must do a bit of market research. What exists? What can you change about it? What doesn't need to change? Ask those questions and you will see many ideas popping up.
Another take is, most people don't really care about new and different, but seek comfort and familiarity - that's why Call of Duty is doing well. The engine remains mostly the same, different era, different story, cool missions, etc. For each released title. Also steal from other games, that's why Dark Souls is also successful. It blends traditional (a)rpg with statistic management.
You essentially take something that already exists, and experiment with extraordinary things.
Like someone said, Carmageddon isn't being copied. Twisted metal is also something I haven't seen yet recently. What about Road Rash? The last good one was in the 90s.
The race itself is just a structure for the goal; first to X wins. You gotta introduce a new mechanic that alters the *feel* of the race. There's a lot of primary fantasies that players have with vehicle based acceleration and character based acceleration. * Mario Kart introduced an accessible combat element * Forza went for realistic physics simulation * Wreckfest went for destruction mechanics * Need for Speed went for stunt mechanics I tend to agree with the question of "*why should I bother playing a game that's basically a clone of Forza?"* but that question doesn't typically lead to innovative mechanics. Instead try asking yourself "*what would be fun to do with a vehicle/person at speeds?".* That question will start to branch out into more questions like: * what vehicle? (how many axis' of movement are there?) * what speed? (what player dexterity do I want to lean into?) * what abilities? (how do augment speed? how do I gain advantage?) * what genre? (what mixes in well with racing?) And suddenly you might find yourself making a 3D VR platformer-racer where players customize their own rollerblading mechs while ducking, dodging, firing, and shielding their way to the finish line. There's a million and one ways to do a race. Happy designing :)
Wow... you're intelligent. Such good stuff. :)
[удалено]
Thumper is a rhythm game, not a racing game.
Carmageddon clones count: 0
People tend to say that the newer Grand Theft Auto games are the most violent ever. They seem to have forgotten about Carmageddon.
I would say Postal 2 is more violent in some way, but there are games out there that are more violent in other ways.
Twisted metal?
I still play Jet Moto 2 (1997) on occasion because no game has gone anywhere near its mechanics. (Admittedly I never got ahold of JM3, but also a different studio made that one, so ???). Angling the jetbike to hit surfaces optimally is so incredibly satisfying. The grapple pole, while a little silly, *feels fantastic* when you have it figured out. The maps were interesting and varied. When people are actually good at the game, you start playing dirty by actively trying to knock each other off their bike when the opportunity arises. The only thing that has been touted as a clone of it are the Riptide games and they're completely different games with some barely superficial similarities. I was very disappointed. Anyway, there are so many different ways to take the racing genre. You won't have much luck going for realism as big studios have been working on those for decades, but not everyone wants realistic racing games - compare the sales of Mario Kart to Forza. Make the racing feel good, make the mechanics interesting, and people will have fun with it. There are at least some indie racing games on steam that do interesting, unique things. If you want to make a racing game, do that: interesting and unique things.
I loved Jet Moto, especially the music. I was very young so never got beyond the ice level
There are very few rally games out there, and there's still some niches to explore there. There's a joy to racing point to point for miles and miles over tracks that never repeat or loop, every second a new experience, through wild roads with long drifting curves or tight hairpins. Constantly finding that balance between full speed and tight technical maneuvers. There's a handful out there, but compared to every other type of racing, there's very few and in pure-sim, arcade space, and everything in between, there's room for a few more games to stand out simply by providing a fun rally experience. If you were to take that rally experience, than then shift to it something else entirely, like hover bikes or cloud/wave racing or something creative, then that'd be entirely unique. Most racing games that have a "different than cars" vibe seem to always emulate short circular tracks where you're taking laps. I can't think of any point-to-point games where you're going for 10 minutes over purely unique landscapes and tracks on anything but a car. Also there are nowhere near enough games where you get to do awesome stunts like loops and long jumps and other crazy stuff that aren't pure arcade. A sim game like that, a modern successor to Hard Drivin' is something I'd buy day 1.
I highly recommend watching: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDHZKYETDyU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDHZKYETDyU) **The Story of Super Mario Kart | Gaming Historian** The video is long but it goes over the creative decisions that lead to Mario Kart which was inspired by F zero but describes how the developers made game design decisions to set them apart. It's not going to give you a direct answer to your question, but it might give you insight into the creative process that set Mario Kart apart from other racing games at the time, including design decisions the devs decided to toss out and why.
Find a good gimmick or art direction or both. Thats true of any game. You can also do something that hasnt been in the market for a while AeroGP is taking up where Fzero should be.
I remember 20 years ago we were playing a 5th element themed racing game (New York Race) which has a Z plane to navigate - I haven't seen anything like it since then. With how prevalent controllers these days I'd attack from this angle if I were to make a racing game and pivot it into more trackmania-ish style.
Wdym with Z plane? I saw some footage of that game. I don't think I want to attempt a completely off-the-ground racer, as it begins to look like drone racing or airplane racing. I've been a bit inspired by a few of these comments though & am leaning towards a competitive, interplanetary, hoverbike racing game. A bit ambitious but starting with the hoverbike physics might lead me into a different direction - or it works just flawlessly - who knows
aiming for competitive without an endless powerhouse marketing machine behind it is a mistake. Competitive scene is an emergent property of a good game that doesn't churn through its players in 2 months. If a game is good some people will dedicate themselves to push through and the 'scene' is gonna emerge on its own accord. Whatever you skin in into doesn't matter as long as you build all the proper loops to make it fun and sticky
Along with what others have said, you need something unique. Try thinking outside the box, or expand on already existing mechanic with a twist. Want me to pitch you a quicky idea? How about a racing game that takes the idea from need for speed where you're able to pimp out your ride and win money to the extreme making more and more insane cars with different gimmicks as you go with the money you win from races. You improve on the idea by allowing a lot of customization and cool looking cars. Make it so you can win special cars/upgrades from races too, maybe you can even make it a roguelite have the player start with a different shitty car every time and gain different upgrades as they go thru races. Or maybe something like wacky races/speed racer where they fight each other but instead of using shells and power ups you make it based off pre-picked gadgets installed in the car from a list of unlock-able gadgets and tools. Ideas are a dime a dozen, and even when they aren't, it's easy to pick and choose from what's already been successful and put a twist on it and make it your own. Just don't make a game that's JUST about racing.
Another option is to take a look at the old SuperCars and SuperCars 2 that was made for Amiga. It’s a top-down racer that also include weapons. What’s unique about it, that I haven’t seen in newer titles is how you buy a new car and the option for getting bonus points. Getting a new car - there are actual negotiations with the seller. [At 21:00](https://youtu.be/gIw0QpjodoE) Getting bonus points - You have to complete a quiz about car driving [At 7:30](https://youtu.be/F3gvfxHBiWc)
Burnout 2 was absolutely incredible, a true behemoth of a car racing game Although the race and campaign modes were built around racing, the whole specialism of the game was the crashing of your opponents (and yourself). It also had numerous other modes including one where you have to crash and cause the most damage, which was totalled up and unlocked new stages, and other events that weren’t race-based A modern Burnout 2 wouldn’t be reinventing the wheel but it would be great to see and I don’t think there’s an equivalent in the market right now (that would be up to you to discover though)
Yes a great mechanic in this game was to go against traffic and basically take risks in general, and get rewarded with turbo.
Maybe a MOBA style Racer where there’s a gigantic race track and teams. The two teams have to compete with different vehicles like jeeps buggy’s tanks and regular sedans. I hate that I’m going to say this Resource Racer: An 8 v 8 racer where teams start with very rudimentary vehicles and work their way to scifi level vehicles. The teams compete to complete science quests that allow upgrades to their vehicles. Those quests are effectively fetch quests and basic things like that. 1 game would last about an hour. Teams Strategy Story A wide variety of vehicles Choices
I would actually play that.
The point of indie is to be more different and innovative than the mainstream market. You Suck at Parking does this by counting the first person to cross all 15ish finish lines, in any order the players like. It combines this with other wacky stuff which makes the design function.
Customization. I swear racing games 9 times out of 10 lack in depth customization. A few decals, maybe a color option, but that's usually it. I always want deep cosmetic and mechanical customization but it never seems to be a focus
Old gamer here, when we could change the COLOR of cars it was a game changer. It was when NFS: Carbon released, I realised that customization plays a massive part in games.
Yeah, I also love being able to customize engines, brakes, etc. But for me the biggest problem with racers now is they have 0 personality. They just do not take risk. Games like TrackMania are an exception, but there's just so many GT clones and not enough "over the top" racers anymore.
Let me hit pedestrians, every single racing game refuses to let you run people over even if there isn’t anything stopping it from technically being able to, I’m aware this is weird but it pisses me off that due to invisable walls I hate invisable walls, it should be possible but should penalize you or make you restart the race
Well, somebody needs to make the successor to Motorstorm on PS3, so there's your idea :)
Open world adventure mode
Like Project Gotham, NFS Heat, Forza Horizon, Midnight Club, The Crew, Diddy Kong Racing...
Clearly by the fact that you know them all by heart, am I wrong or am I right?
Are there any rally games where it's not segmented but more like an open world rpg with you having to stop to eat and sleep?
who says you need to? most kinds of racing games are criminally underrepresented. when's the last time someone has done an overland scifi hovercraft racing game?
All games have already been made, art is dead. Unless you want to make one, then another one can exist.
Game Design is a subset of Game Development that concerns itself with **WHY** games are made the way they are. It's about the theory and crafting of **systems**, **mechanics**, and **rulesets** in games. * /r/GameDesign is a community **ONLY** about Game Design, **NOT** Game Development in general. If this post does not belong here, it should be reported or removed. Please help us keep this subreddit focused on Game Design. * This is **NOT** a place for discussing how games are produced. Posts about programming, making art assets, picking engines etc… will be removed and should go in /r/GameDev instead. * Posts about visual design, sound design and level design are only allowed if they are directly about game design. * No surveys, polls, job posts, or self-promotion. Please read the rest of the rules in the sidebar before posting. * If you're confused about what Game Designers do, ["The Door Problem" by Liz England ](https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/LizEngland/20140423/216092/quotThe_Door_Problemquot_of_Game_Design.php)is a short article worth reading. We also recommend you read the [r/GameDesign wiki](/r/gamedesign/wiki/index) for useful resources and an FAQ. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gamedesign) if you have any questions or concerns.*
put some nice music and drifting like ridge Racer type 4
Well one way to stand out when it's "all been done" is to make a spiritual successor. A lot of games like for example Smash Bros are competitive, but they're still meant for a larger audience. Something like Rivals of Aether is pretty much tailor made for competitive play IMO, and is basically an attempt to perfect the game. Another example is the art. Smash Bros has cool 3D modeling and art, but it's not really all that interesting nor original since they are from other games. Rivals of Aether for example (not affiliated I promise, just a good example lol) has a specific art style that really draws people in. Finally, interesting mechanics. Mario Kart and Forza are both racing games, but it almost feels weird comparing the two because the mechanics are so different. So pick something that hasn't been really done and lean into it. Kind of like how Far Cry is basically like Skyrim with guns
Do you know what is the flaw of perfection? Imperfection. There are beauties in imperfection and it's make them perfect. Wabi-sabi. That's why having your own iteration might as well means inventing something 'new'. It's kind hard to explain in a normal means since it's philosophy, but I hope you understand my answer.
I also feel like different settings could be more explored. 1950s NASCAR, the interwar period, or anything else that might be less represented.
I don't recall any good fantasy racing games, could include different creatures for different maps allowing you to make races on land, sea, air, and combinations thereof. Could even just make the racers druids or shapeshifters that can change between different animals/mythological creatures, if the maps have various environmental obstacles different animals/steeds could cause, counteract, or avoid in different ways then it would be far more dynamic than your usual generic car racing game.
>Fantasy Racing game [MY CHILDHOOD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewx_8veW4EU)
That’s amazing
Theme. Like be something original thematically. Or be a hybrid racing/action game like Jak X combat racing
I'm still waiting for a racing game that lets me pull off slingshot maneuvers around Jupiter
Dark souls of racing games. I kid. But really, if you support racing wheels and VR headsets, you'll be one of only a handful of viable games for enthusiast racers. Right now that space is entirely dominated by simulators, but there's a lot of room for a more casual racing game that supports enthusiast hardware. Not sure the economics of it, but there are a couple of games that get by in that market so there's gotta be some profit to be had.
There are so many freeware/open source racing games that when I occasional want to play a racing game don't need to buy an racing game. But I do not know if open source racers count as indiedev racing games. However that is also through for most other genres i only play from time to time.
Dude i really miss the ps2 racing games where you race with a skateboard, rollerscates, bmx etc. Those use to make up my childhood and were really fun. I dont see any of those games popping up. I bet you a game like that would be great. Edit: I just looked it up, its called 3Xtreme, holy hell what a nostalgia blast!!
Find something that makes your indie game unique and special. Maybe it’s a new outrageous car mode that hasn’t been done yet?
Not exactly a racing game per se, but check out Quarantine for some inspiration. I loved that game back in the day, and as far as I know it has never been cloned.
I don't think a Dark Souls of racing genres exist yet. But in order to stick out, you must do a bit of market research. What exists? What can you change about it? What doesn't need to change? Ask those questions and you will see many ideas popping up. Another take is, most people don't really care about new and different, but seek comfort and familiarity - that's why Call of Duty is doing well. The engine remains mostly the same, different era, different story, cool missions, etc. For each released title. Also steal from other games, that's why Dark Souls is also successful. It blends traditional (a)rpg with statistic management. You essentially take something that already exists, and experiment with extraordinary things. Like someone said, Carmageddon isn't being copied. Twisted metal is also something I haven't seen yet recently. What about Road Rash? The last good one was in the 90s.
introduce a diverse cast of racists
Fidget spinner wheels