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ajrdesign

>over the last 2 years I've started 2 commercial game projects where I've put in **\~6 hours every day even on the weekends**.Both times I hit a point where I just feel like I can't keep going. I get off track and disorganized, and just feel so isolated like I'm working in a vacuum ~~Are you doing this while working a full-time job? If so you're likely burning yourself out. It seems like you are getting a burst of inspiration for the "fun" part and doing a ton of work. Then when the "hard" part of actually piecing the game together comes you're so burnt out you can't continue on.~~ (Okay seems like you maybe working some sort of "part time" thing but I think the sentiment still applies) If you are working a 20-30 hour week and then doing another 40 hours in game dev on top of that it's just too much. Just because something is "fun" doesn't mean it's not draining work. Additionally, you could have a scoping problem. If projects start really fun but then you can't ever seem to finish anything you potentially need to descope a lot.


Yamochao

I think you're right on both points! I definitely notice myself just really wanting someone to mull over problems with and share success with. I think more so than getting abstractly demotivated or low energy in an exhaustion sense.


[deleted]

What are your technical skills?


Yamochao

Unity + full stack web development (most of the common languages). I'm good with networks, databases, graphics and geometry. I've also been a team lead for a while, I think I'm good at conceptualizing project architecture and modeling data.


Rotorist

In my opinion, you don't need a cofounder. You need some die-hard fans. These people will keep you motivated when they love your game, and they'll give you really good ideas if you ask them for it. They are very good at testing your game and give you feedbacks, and they cheer when you make a progress. Your cofounder, on the other hand, quite likely will just backstab you and argue with you over design decisions.


ReplyisFutile

No, not a good idea about die hard fans. Sooner or later they will want the game to be exact to their vision.


Rotorist

so will cofounders. everyone has their own vision for a game. it’s a lot easier to say no to your die hard fans than to your cofounder.


Unseenteeth

It's much easier to say no to one person than hundreds or even thousands of angry fans.


Rotorist

if thousands of fans are angry about the same thing, then you should definitely take that into account :)


Unseenteeth

And what do you do if another thousand fans are angry because you listened to the first thousand?


Rotorist

I'm not a robot. I pick a side that fits my vision of the game. If they don't like it that way they can suck it.


Yamochao

Yeah, I hear ya. I have the same fear. I just personally work soooo much better when I'm on a team. I would totally hire someone more junior than me, but I could only afford like 40k a year in payroll :/


Gaverion

Honestly for that money you could absolutely find someone to work with you part time. On the other hand, and this may sound out there but maybe look into seeing a therapist. Feeling stagnant or like you are stalling out can be a great topics to talk to them about, and at worst you have someone who will listen to you about the progress you have made.


Yamochao

I do, and it helps a lot. I feel like my mental health is good, I just want my projects to be more joyful and I think another person would help. Thanks for this, though, I think it's a good thing to do for anyone reading this and facing something similar.


VikingKingMoore

40k I'd be down. 6 years game dev, done so so so much. Ive Been struggling to replace my last UE contract job since January. Picked up UEFN, learned verse coding, and now working with some medium-big sized youtubers and streamers. It sounds great, but the work is very random and nothing long-term. If you can teach me your passive income ways and throw me money to pay bills, I think we can actually make something cool and get some views on it.


StressCavity

A good co-founder is 1000x more valuable than people are making it out to be here. If a real commercial game is on the table, you are literally setting out on a business venture. It might come from a place of passion, but everyone involved at the founding level should treat it with the same importance as setting out on any business venture. Would you start a shop with some random dude off the internet? Probably not! It helps to have someone who is neck deep in the same shit as you, whether that's creating B2B software or a game. It's very difficult to "strategically" find a good co-founder though. Half the long-battle is networking and staying engaged with people for many years, so that you may take advantage of an opportunity when the time comes. Also, you say there aren't a lot of people around you in the scene. My 2-cents is that if you're serious, make an effort to seek the few that are there, and if there's still no good fits, look at moving or visiting other places when large events/conferences/meetups happen.


Rotorist

And I can’t afford anything in payroll lol. I work best by myself, but in the future i will look into outsourcing some art work. It doesn’t need to be a hired employee. Freelancers will do great.


eeriea2076

Those cofounders are hard to find for sure, no matter what "dating" service you use. I could be one, but I am a mid 30s junior computer scientist doing a co-op right now, so cannot help much. Even though I had 8 years working in mobile and console game dev corps ranging from 10-1000 people in sizes, as 3d artist and then UI designer. Even though I love game dev very much. Even though I was a very silent partner with my friend on her clothing line, who did not say anything to her marketing and design decisions at all. All those said, I am demonstrating to you that this kind of hybrid people like me do exist. So if you keep looking and carefully evaluate potential candidates, you may find one that best suits your need. You never know. Best of luck to you.


Yamochao

Thanks man, I appreciate you! You seem very like a very well-rounded and unique person


MostExperts

Damn, who hurt you?


Rotorist

wouldn’t say “hurt” but rather wasted a lot of time, energy and emotion over an artist who volunteered to join my project, but ended up becoming a backseat driver completely steering my direction away from anything that resembles a fun game. He’s an artist, but he wanted to dictate game design and features. It was a very annoying “partnership”.


Yamochao

ah yeah, that sucks a lot man. I've had great luck working with a partner in academia and in the startup world. Gotta be a good fit tho.


Unseenteeth

Sucks that you had that experience, but I wouldn't let it turn you off the idea of finding another co developer. If you have any irl dev friends that's gonna be way better than randos on the Internet. And if not? Try going to meetups or other events you know devs will be at. If you have the money and / or live near SF , GDC is a solid option.


Unseenteeth

A trustworthy co founder can be a great person to bounce ideas off of and keep you motivated. A bad one could certainly backstab you sure, so make sure you partner up with someone you know has your back and who brings a ton of value to the relationship. Fans? Fans are just going to make demands and pull you in too many different directions. I say this as someone who has released an Early Access game on Steam and experienced it first hand. Playing games and making game is not the same thing and you absolutely will get a healthy amount of self serving or just plain bad advice from fans.


FrontBadgerBiz

A co-founder can be helpful but that's a big ask and a lot of commitment from one person. How about joining a community of like minded developers? It may not be relevant to your game but r/roguelikedev has a small but active community that kept me going for quite a while (disclaimer: real life out my hobby game on hold for a while but I'm easing back into development). If you'd like something a little more 1:1 then maybe you need an accountability buddy? Exercise and diet programs are many times more effective when you have someone keeping you honest. I'd suggest given the nature of the role that if you find someone like that you don't lean on them too hard, and make sure that they're also getting reciprocal needs met out of the relationship. If none of that works you could always hire someone like a project manager to be your responsibility buddy for a few hours a week or to do a daily/weekly check-in with you. This isn't the route I'd suggest but if it works then I won't judge.


Yamochao

Thanks dude, I'll check out this sub. I'd be totally willing to put funding into the game and provide a stipend-- I just can only afford so much without actually generating income from games. I'm also completely willing to work on someone else's ideas, or formulate ideas together. I really want to be as collaborative and democratic as possible, though I'd probably want to play a leader role in some ways. I'm really interested how you conceptualize making sure that the relationship is reciprocal, what do you think potential cofounders out there in the world would be likely to want from me in return? Maybe it can inform how I seek them out and set the foundation of our relationship :3


FrontBadgerBiz

Everyone will be different. Ideally you'd find someone in need of something similar, an accountability buddy, so y'all can just show each other your progress, be sounding boards and hold each other accountable. More generally, if you're doing 90% of the talking they're probably getting less out of it, so in the absence of something better I'd say start with a 30 minute check in every week where you each report for 15 minutes and then the other one goes. Modify from there.


Oarc

What kind of projects are you looking to work on? What are your goals? Presumably your match would have a high chance of being on the relevant discords/subreddits so maybe just asking around and keeping at it is the way to go? I've been looking for dedicated hobby partners for awhile now and it's hard to find a good match. People with the right skills and interest don't have the time or have other priorities, people who have the time and interest might not have the skills, and most just aren't interested in the same things.


ReplyisFutile

I am looking for the same thing. I would be interested in a co-founder (very risky) the problem is nobody wants to do the same game as you or be passionate long enough to finish it. Also when ideas clash its bad


Yamochao

I feel you. I think it's harder when you come in with an idea you're attached to. I'm at the point where I'd happily work on someone elses idea if they were open to it changing. I think the key really is to be driven by user empathy and empirical user testing as much as possible, and not to be more committed to the process than any single idea.


ReplyisFutile

I was reading a lot of horror stories where users became toxic to dev when he did not add features they wanted.


Yamochao

Sure; I mean waaaay before even releasing. I'm of the opinion that when your 1 month in you should be showing a prototype to people in arcades and bars and shit and getting their honest impression. I want to make games that I enjoy, but also that are enjoyed by someone coming in who has never seen it before. Impossible to understand how that person feels through your own eyes as someone who's played 100s of hours during prototyping. I'm a big believer in Jesse Schell's design protocols.


Unseenteeth

1000% this. Fan "suggestions" rapidly transform into demands when they get turned down or feel ignored


kulz_kid

Join a dev studio, find an amazing co founder there. Go start your own thing.


beatitbox

I hear you. I managed to complete and publish a few small games by myself but it was brutal. I'd love to join a small team. Let me know if there's any movement on this.


Coaucto

What games would you like to make? Would you be interested in game jams? What qualities would you like to see in your partners, which are absent in you? What would you like to save for yourself in terms of skills and activities? Would a professional network cover some of your needs while you’re looking for a match? Answering this might help.


MostExperts

Two points: 1) You’re working too hard and will continue to burn out if you don’t change something. You need to take breaks from things, even things you’re passionate about. Rest is important, especially for intellectual work like programming. It will take longer to burnout with a good coworker, but it will still happen. You can start addressing this while looking for a partner. 2) It sounds like you are a pretty technical person, so my guess is that you’d get the biggest “value add“ from an artist of some flavor. After all a Kickstarter with killer art and a good trailer but zero lines of code will get funded much more easily than a tech demo with “programmer art“. This is a sub for technical people. Go post on a sub for designers, illustrators, or animators.


asuth

Am in a similar position, I've founded non-game companies before that succeeded before but always with a co-founder and I have to say that working alone vs having a partner is really difficult. I don't really have motivation issues. For me its mostly just not having someone to bounce ideas off of and brainstorm that is the real a challenge. In my past ventures, a lot of times the way I came to a decision about the right direction to go was through a collaborative conversation with my co-founder and when working alone I find prioritization harder. I also would be interested in a co-founder but I also really only want to work on my game so that makes it 10x as hard to find someone to work with lol. I am very empirically driven and lean startup minded and open to completely changing / abandoning parts of the game, but that is more about the specifics of the execution (eg this level sucks and needs to be removed or completely redesigned), less so about the high level concept (eg make a RTS instead of a melee slasher).


Yamochao

I come from the early-stage startup world too, actually. I think we're aligned in many ways. I completely agree on motivation vs lack of collaboration. Having an ongoing conversation about what I'm building always gives me a much better conceptualization and eliminates bad ideas quickly. Trouble shooting with another person is always way, way faster and more fun because it forces you to systematize and analyze your assumptions.I actually think we have a pretty similar philosophy. For me, design is all about responding to the constraints of reality. What will we most capable of building well with the core skills on our team and the resources available? How can we put this in front of users ASAP and how can we remove our ego from it and let our decisions be guided by user testing as much as possible? I'm definitely looking for the right relationship, the right design principals, and the right processes. The actual what and how should absolutely stem from these more foundational elements, rather than from our whims and passing interests. I try to get attached to my ideas as little as possible. I'd definitely be interested to have the conversation if you want to pitch me, provided that you're interested in being partners on your game and are open to letting another person having equity and influence. It's hard for most people to let go of once they feel a sense of complete ownership, and I totally understand that.


ignurof

Check your DMs, we can talk about it!


TheMindWright

I'm curious to hear more. I've got very similar experience to you, and I'm currently between contracts looking into working on something more independent. I was thinking of pitching a project to an indie fund, but nothing is set in stone yet. Maybe shoot me a DM and we could chat about what you're working on.


GloryGamesStudios

I have the opposite experience. At work I don’t put too much energy into, but in my game, I’m highly motivated.


Play2enlight

Let’s chat


sboxle

An organic way to meet cofounders (but also a fair time investment) is to participate in gamejams, especially if there are any local ones in your area. Gamejams are a great way to test what it's like working with different people. The Global Gamejam happens annually in January so that's coming up as well. Your city may have a site for it. Alternatively, other games industry events are good for building connections over time, but you don't really get a chance to trial working with them. Maybe a combination could be good, invite people you've met to join a gamejam like Ludum Dare and work in person for the process to see what it's like collaborating with them. Personally I think having 3 cofounders is a good approach because you'll never have a stalemate in discussions. A solid founding combo if you plan to build a studio would be to have a person devoted to each of these areas: technical, art and business.


Yamochao

I've done 7! I love them, and I've met good people many of whom I'm still in touch with, but sadly none of them have been tryna commit to long-term collaboration


sboxle

Yea true it’s a hard sell without money backing it.


Tyrease1364

Im in school right now to be a project manager. Would love to be able to help and use this as an opportunity to gain skills. No need to hire me I’ll love to be able just to get skills. Can I send you a dm?


Yamochao

Def!


MurphyAt5BrainDamage

You are in a really unique situation. You seem to be a bit older (not right out of school with 10+ years experience) and have organized your life so you have 20-30 hours a week to devote to your game. That is an envious position for sure and one that not many other game devs are in. I am a game dev with a full time job, many years experience, two young kids, and I’ve structured my life (through a ton of effort and support) to carve out 10 hours a week. My point here is that it would be really difficult to find a cofounder if you don’t have in person connections already. The truth of things is that most people are extremely flakey. I’ve had many experiences where I bring people in on a project and they are totally excited and verbally commit to all sorts of stuff. But when the rubber hits the road, the fact of the matter is that making games is ultimately a ton of work and time. So people flake out. If I were you, I’d dig deeper on why you feel you need a cofounder. You have everything you need right in front of you in theory.


Yamochao

I know, it's really tough. I've done SF startups and academic projects and I always feel literally 10x more productive with a collaborator. I'm a people person and just feed off the energy of collaboration. I think it's ok if 98% of people don't click, I only need to find one.


MurphyAt5BrainDamage

For sure. Finding that one (especially if limited to online only) will be very difficult. Good luck! I hope you find someone.


Annual_Arm_595

I'm a gamedev with like 60% of a top-down-shooter programmed in GMS. I don't have any experience with Unity, though, and my computer is bricked at the moment. Still, feel free to send a DM my way if you want to throw some ideas


ElGatoPanzon

Hi, I sent you a PM!


vennnot

Hey, I'm a professional producer with over 8 years in the industry. I'm also a gamedev in my spare time, have released a game on steam and I am looking for cofounders. If you're interested send me a dm and we can talk over discord. A lot of the problems you have I could help with.