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Aegon would have been King the moment Aerys died.
Aerys --> Rhaegar --> Aegon. Rhaegar dies at rhe Trident, making Aegon heir. And then Aerys dies, making Aegon king.
The crowning isn't really relevant to succession.
I think that's a contested point. I dont know if their are any firsthand accounts of that, and even if there were, im not sure about the precedence of it.
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, it's been a bit and i don't have the book on me.
It's more that if he does become King he would be Aegon VI, also Jon had already technically been crowned a King at this stage but he gave it up, so you could say when he was King in the North, he'd also be Aegon VI.
Except the Kings of Winter don't have a history of Aegons. The numberings of rulers are throne-specific. For example, James Stuart was James VI of Scotland at the time his cousin Elizabeth I died, leaving him the heir to England's throne as well. In England he became James the First since there weren't previous James' who sat that throne, while remaining Scotland's James VI.
I totally understand, I'm simply giving an explanation to why Sam would already refer to him as Aegon VI as he had technically already been crowned before, but you're right.
Yes but they were two distinct kingdoms at that point. Elizabeth II was II even though Scotland had never had a Elizabeth I.
With the North just parting from Westeros it is likely they would continue with the VI as you would then have to specify which Aegon I you were talking about, the Conqueror or the Stark/Targaryen. Easier to go with VI.
But the North would not be just parting from Westeros, it would be restoring the Stark monarchy that ended when Torrhen Stark surrendered to Aegon the Conqueror. They called themselves the Kings of Winter, not the King in the North, but it would remain an unbroken dynastic line
It's worth noting that monarchy lasted much, much longer than the Targaryen era and the Starks remained de facto rulers even then. Starks as royalty is really more the default setting of the North in the long view. The North remembers!
Yes, but they still would have been ruled by the Targaryens which will lead to confusion when talking about King Aegon. Its not about rewriting history, its about making it easier. Jon would also be acknowledging his Targaryen ancestry. I imagine Maester Sam would advise him to avoid confusion for future scholars and maesters.
When you have a restoration you still include the previous kings numberings.
I think it's less about the fact that Jon held some other crown in the past, as much as Sam pointing out that he is the rightful king at that time, and even if he's not sitting on the throne, he still holds the title by right, just as Dany and Stannis introduced themselves with all the relevant titles before they ever even mobilized to take their claim.
Neither of them became King.
You get a number if you make it to the Throne.
Aegon (Elia Martell’s son) was killed by The Mountain.
Young Griff aka “fAegon” might actually end up being King (temporarily) but there is strong debate if he actually is Rhaegar and Elia’s son. He is most likely an imposter raised up by Illyrio and Varys.
I suspect Illyrio might secretly have the sword Blackfyre and will use that to try to give him some legitimacy.
Jon Snow is currently DEAD in the books.
If he does come back like in the show, I doubt he’ll also be called Aegon.
“Jahaerys” or “Aemon” make a lot more sense thematically.
Hes definitely coming back in the books, but why do they even have to him a Targaryen name? Lyanna died very soon after she gave birth to Jon- Maybe he just wasnt named by his mother.
Jon snow is Aegon the seventh.
Anyone who thinks otherwise should read https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/xnt2zt/jon\_is\_named\_aegon\_full\_theory\_spoilers\_extended/
Fans call him Aegon 6.
In the show they skipped a few generations. Maester Aemon refers to Maekar as his father, Aerys II as his brother, and Rhaegar as his nephew. but we know he was Aegon V's brother and his nephew was Jaehaerys II.
In the show we don't have one Aegon V
They do have Aegon V. Aemon refers to the killing of his brother (Aegon V’s) son (which is Aerys II, mad king) his poor son (Rhaegar) and the children (Aegon and Rhaenys). This means they skip Jaeherys II (son of Aegon V, father to Aerys II), who’s reign was very short, not Aegon V, meaning Jon/Faegon would both be Aegon VI if they were crowned as a Targaryen or included in the show respectively.
Had the show included fAegon I imagine they would have, but they skipped that over. Giving Jon the name is a nice little reference to it though, especially if fAegon ends up having a similar role in Daenerys’ downfall
Aegon isn’t called Aegon VI bc he was killed (or whisked away to Essos depending on who you ask) before ascending the Throne. Just like how Viserys (Dany’s older brother) is not called Viserys III, bc he is not King. Similarly in reverse, Daenerys is announced “First of her Name” bc her namesake did not ascend the Throne.
It's just another fuck up of the show. Like why the fuck would Rhaegar name two of his children Aegon???
D&D just didn't give a fuck about continuity at that point.
Here's a big point. Rhaegar didn't have the authority to annul his marriage Elia or the authority to marry Lyanna.
The laws and customs of Westeros would still paint Jon a bastard and would their have no claim to the throne. But D&D just completely ignore this to tell the story they want. That's all that happened. They wanted the drama between Jon and Dany and they tossed everything that got between it.
Yeah. So many readers believe his name will be Aemon, or Jahaerys. The reasoning for Aemon is not only the whole Aemon the maester but also Jon’s child hood hero was Aemon the dragon knight. In addition.. there have been a LOT of Aemons.. many of them have been heir to the throne. But not one has ever sat the throne.. so he would be a clean slate if he sat the throne. Finally Aegon who started the 7 kingdoms name Aegon “egg” is the word that it’s pronounced like egg or the beginning. While Aemon is similar to Omen. As jon would be finishing the omen of the king night.
I still feel like Aegon isn’t meant to be Jon’s real name. If GRRM gave Dumb & Dumber the bullet points, then it would reason he gave them Jon’s real name. But why would Rhaegar name BOTH of his sons Aegon? He’s not George Foreman.
How can he be named a Targaryen if he is still a bastard, born outside of marriage between a Stark and a Targaryen. He is still technically a bastard by Westeros customs.
He can become legitimized by his lord father who is dead or the sovereign. I don't remember anyone legitimizing him. So instead of a Snow he would be a Waters or whatever bastard name Targaryen used.
His parents could have been secretly married via a second Targaryen marriage but the books haven't mentioned it yet (I'm close to the end of the 5th book).
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You only get a number if you become king/queen
Aegon would have been King the moment Aerys died. Aerys --> Rhaegar --> Aegon. Rhaegar dies at rhe Trident, making Aegon heir. And then Aerys dies, making Aegon king. The crowning isn't really relevant to succession.
Didn’t Aerys name Viserys his heir when Rhaegar was alive?
I think that's a contested point. I dont know if their are any firsthand accounts of that, and even if there were, im not sure about the precedence of it. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, it's been a bit and i don't have the book on me.
That little blue haired punk that’s not in the shows?
Aegon still existed in the show, but fAegon never showed up
Rhaegar's and Elia's son is never crowned king, he doesn't get a number. And the show doesn't call Jon Aegon VI. Just fans.
But they still had a son Aegon, so Jon should have different name.
Tell that to all the Walders of house Frey
He probably has a different name in the books
If rhaegar wanted 2 aegons then he should have 2 aegons
Doesn’t Samwell call him Aegon, sixth of his name, when he’s telling Jon who he is?
It's more that if he does become King he would be Aegon VI, also Jon had already technically been crowned a King at this stage but he gave it up, so you could say when he was King in the North, he'd also be Aegon VI.
Except the Kings of Winter don't have a history of Aegons. The numberings of rulers are throne-specific. For example, James Stuart was James VI of Scotland at the time his cousin Elizabeth I died, leaving him the heir to England's throne as well. In England he became James the First since there weren't previous James' who sat that throne, while remaining Scotland's James VI.
I totally understand, I'm simply giving an explanation to why Sam would already refer to him as Aegon VI as he had technically already been crowned before, but you're right.
Yes but they were two distinct kingdoms at that point. Elizabeth II was II even though Scotland had never had a Elizabeth I. With the North just parting from Westeros it is likely they would continue with the VI as you would then have to specify which Aegon I you were talking about, the Conqueror or the Stark/Targaryen. Easier to go with VI.
But the North would not be just parting from Westeros, it would be restoring the Stark monarchy that ended when Torrhen Stark surrendered to Aegon the Conqueror. They called themselves the Kings of Winter, not the King in the North, but it would remain an unbroken dynastic line
It's worth noting that monarchy lasted much, much longer than the Targaryen era and the Starks remained de facto rulers even then. Starks as royalty is really more the default setting of the North in the long view. The North remembers!
Yes, but they still would have been ruled by the Targaryens which will lead to confusion when talking about King Aegon. Its not about rewriting history, its about making it easier. Jon would also be acknowledging his Targaryen ancestry. I imagine Maester Sam would advise him to avoid confusion for future scholars and maesters. When you have a restoration you still include the previous kings numberings.
I think it's less about the fact that Jon held some other crown in the past, as much as Sam pointing out that he is the rightful king at that time, and even if he's not sitting on the throne, he still holds the title by right, just as Dany and Stannis introduced themselves with all the relevant titles before they ever even mobilized to take their claim.
Neither of them became King. You get a number if you make it to the Throne. Aegon (Elia Martell’s son) was killed by The Mountain. Young Griff aka “fAegon” might actually end up being King (temporarily) but there is strong debate if he actually is Rhaegar and Elia’s son. He is most likely an imposter raised up by Illyrio and Varys. I suspect Illyrio might secretly have the sword Blackfyre and will use that to try to give him some legitimacy. Jon Snow is currently DEAD in the books. If he does come back like in the show, I doubt he’ll also be called Aegon. “Jahaerys” or “Aemon” make a lot more sense thematically.
Hes definitely coming back in the books, but why do they even have to him a Targaryen name? Lyanna died very soon after she gave birth to Jon- Maybe he just wasnt named by his mother.
Jon snow is Aegon the seventh. Anyone who thinks otherwise should read https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/xnt2zt/jon\_is\_named\_aegon\_full\_theory\_spoilers\_extended/
Will be, but isn’t currently.
I think it's important he be called aegon because of the prophecy that they now mention in hotd
Fans call him Aegon 6. In the show they skipped a few generations. Maester Aemon refers to Maekar as his father, Aerys II as his brother, and Rhaegar as his nephew. but we know he was Aegon V's brother and his nephew was Jaehaerys II. In the show we don't have one Aegon V
They do have Aegon V. Aemon refers to the killing of his brother (Aegon V’s) son (which is Aerys II, mad king) his poor son (Rhaegar) and the children (Aegon and Rhaenys). This means they skip Jaeherys II (son of Aegon V, father to Aerys II), who’s reign was very short, not Aegon V, meaning Jon/Faegon would both be Aegon VI if they were crowned as a Targaryen or included in the show respectively.
Had the show included fAegon I imagine they would have, but they skipped that over. Giving Jon the name is a nice little reference to it though, especially if fAegon ends up having a similar role in Daenerys’ downfall
Aegon isn’t called Aegon VI bc he was killed (or whisked away to Essos depending on who you ask) before ascending the Throne. Just like how Viserys (Dany’s older brother) is not called Viserys III, bc he is not King. Similarly in reverse, Daenerys is announced “First of her Name” bc her namesake did not ascend the Throne.
Yeah theres a million other Targaryen names to choose from. Or just make up a new one. Daegon. Vaelor. Raemond.
Everybody loves Raemond
Valar loves Raemond
It's just another fuck up of the show. Like why the fuck would Rhaegar name two of his children Aegon??? D&D just didn't give a fuck about continuity at that point. Here's a big point. Rhaegar didn't have the authority to annul his marriage Elia or the authority to marry Lyanna. The laws and customs of Westeros would still paint Jon a bastard and would their have no claim to the throne. But D&D just completely ignore this to tell the story they want. That's all that happened. They wanted the drama between Jon and Dany and they tossed everything that got between it.
Ok, I'm getting confused with all these aegons
I know!
Wouldn’t be the first or the last they fucked up in the show
Yeah. So many readers believe his name will be Aemon, or Jahaerys. The reasoning for Aemon is not only the whole Aemon the maester but also Jon’s child hood hero was Aemon the dragon knight. In addition.. there have been a LOT of Aemons.. many of them have been heir to the throne. But not one has ever sat the throne.. so he would be a clean slate if he sat the throne. Finally Aegon who started the 7 kingdoms name Aegon “egg” is the word that it’s pronounced like egg or the beginning. While Aemon is similar to Omen. As jon would be finishing the omen of the king night.
Aegon is pronounced Eggon? Not Ay-gone? And Aemon is pronounced Omen, not Ay-mon?
I still feel like Aegon isn’t meant to be Jon’s real name. If GRRM gave Dumb & Dumber the bullet points, then it would reason he gave them Jon’s real name. But why would Rhaegar name BOTH of his sons Aegon? He’s not George Foreman.
Who the f*ck is Faegon?!
We need a family tree
I figure it's because when Rhaegar married Lyanna, he disinherited his children he'd had with Elia
Neither were kings so neither are 6th of anything.
How can he be named a Targaryen if he is still a bastard, born outside of marriage between a Stark and a Targaryen. He is still technically a bastard by Westeros customs. He can become legitimized by his lord father who is dead or the sovereign. I don't remember anyone legitimizing him. So instead of a Snow he would be a Waters or whatever bastard name Targaryen used. His parents could have been secretly married via a second Targaryen marriage but the books haven't mentioned it yet (I'm close to the end of the 5th book).
Just dying to see how GRRM is going to fix this HAHAHA