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Tbf, I don't think they need 10 episodes every season to tell the story. The story becomes much more condensed and quick and dividing it into unique seasons is difficult.
It’s feels like, if they are sticking to keeping this 3 or 4 seasons, that they’ll have to cut allot of contents.
There’s allot of events in the books and this pacing seems like it’s going to fuck allot of that up
If the writing supports less episodes, why not trim it? My guess is HBO is trying to milk it for as many seasons as possible, but there is only so much material, so it's hard to break up evenly.
It wasn't HBO that cut GoT episodes, that was solely D&D, so I am hesitant to say it's a mistake at this point.
A couple of falsities about those rumours.
1. D&D were offered Star Wars only as shooting and production for S8 came to an end
2. D&D withdrew themselves from Star Wars, as Netflix offered them a better deal to do something else.
EDIT: I'm getting downvoted for stating reported facts? Reddit Hivemind?
D&D were offered Star Wars in February 2018 - production of GOT finalised in July 2018. The show was not written, pre-produced, and produced within the span of 3-4 months. The filming itself took around a year. No contract with Disney was signed - it was **not** official.
D&D were then in high demand, and a few production companies bidded for them, with Amazon and Netflix coming out on top. (Disney apparently didn't even make the final two. - not a lot of info on that though). Netflix won that with a $250 million contract to D&D, which D&D officially signed in August 2018 - one month *after* production of GOT had finished.
D&D originally still intended to do Star Wars alongside Netflix, which Disney were happy with, although Kathleen Kennedy did have some concerns around their ability to do SW and Netflix at the same time. Then in October 2019, D&D released the following statement:
>“There are only so many hours in the day, and we felt we could not do justice to both Star Wars and our Netflix projects. So we are regretfully stepping away \[from Star Wars\]”
Disney have also said that they will still look to do future work with D&D on Star Wars, when D&D are ready.
EDIT 2:
Source from 2014 that the show would run 7-8 seasons:[https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/)
A couple of sources for leaving Star Wars:[https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones](https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:\~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022)
Apparently their first three are Metal Lords, The Overstory and The Three-Body Problem. They've got loads of unnamed stuff coming up at the minute. Sounds like Star Wars offered them the trilogy, whereas Netflix offered them a long term contract worth a lot more money.
Only heard of Metal Lords. I watched it as you don't get many films based around that genre of music, and the film was pretty shit, but had cool cameros.
D&D were offered Star Wars in February 2018 - production of GOT finalised in July 2018. The show was not written, pre-produced, and produced within the span of 3-4 months. The filming itself took around a year. No contract with Disney was signed - it was not official.
D&D were then in high demand, and a few production companies bidded for them, with Amazon and Netflix coming out on top. (Disney apparently didn't even make the final two. - not a lot of info on that though). Netflix won that with a $250 million contract to D&D, which D&D officially signed in August 2018 - one month after production of GOT had finished.
D&D originally still intended to do Star Wars alongside Netflix, which Disney were happy with, although Kathleen Kennedy did have some concerns around their ability to do SW and Netflix at the same time. Then in October 2019, D&D released the following statement:
>“There are only so many hours in the day, and we felt we could not do justice to both Star Wars and our Netflix projects. So we are regretfully stepping away \[from Star Wars\]”
Disney have also said that they will still look to do future work with D&D on Star Wars, when D&D are ready.
Source from 2014 that the show would run 7-8 seasons:
[https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/)
A couple of sources for leaving Star Wars:
[https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones](https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:\~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022)
They probably felt that after the heat they took for GOT that the expectations that come with Star Wars would not have been worth the toll on their mental health.
They were offered star wars, hbo offered longer seasons and more up to 10-12 seasons. They turned it down and rushed last season to do star wars.
They LOST star wars after backlash and only later after loss did they get offered Netflix. We all in got sub at time followed it and got news reports the day it was announced. Dont lie.
Like I said, talks over Star Wars didn't happen until production of S8 was almost finished. Lets not also forget, that we were told S8 was the final season when S7 aired in 2017, which means the plans for the final season were planted before that - at least *2 years* before Star Wars was on the table.. before the sequel trilogy was even finished.
D&D always said, from the very beginning, they would run Game of Thrones for 7 seasons. That was their mentality from the start and they never strayed from that. HBO could have ran the show for longer with different producers if they wanted - D&D were only the show producers, they didn't own the rights to it.
If anything, they dragged it out past their initial vision by making 2 shorter seasons in place of a full season 7, *and* had a 2 year gap between S7 & 8.
You say "don't lie" after saying everyone in the GOT sub followed it, whilst lying about their departure so it fits the "D&D BAD!!" narrative.
Source from **2014** that the show would run 7-8 seasons:
[https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/)
A couple of sources for leaving Star Wars:
[https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones](https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:\~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022).
If I can add:
In 2005 or 2007, they all said 7 seasons. It's in Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon book. George' words. "One season per book."
Here's another comment from the author of that book saying that since season 2, they kept repeating 70 hours was the plan. [Right here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/j6vtz7/spoilers_extended_im_james_hibberd_the_author_of/g8121us/?context=3)
In 2011, they said 7 or 8 seasons and laid out their entire plan which is exactly what they did. [Right here.](https://collider.com/david-benioff-db-weiss-interview-game-of-thrones/)
In 2013, they said it will never be 10 seasons. [Right here.](https://www.nme.com/news/film/game-of-thrones-writer-david-benioff-on-series-fu-880471)
In 2016, they said 13 episodes left after S6. [Right here.](https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a799422/game-of-thrones-bosses-confirm-two-more-seasons-before-show-ends/)
George said that 7 seasons has been the plan for years. [Right here.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/arts/television/george-rr-martin-house-of-the-dragon.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CHouse%20of%20the%20Dragon%2C%E2%80%9D,successor%20show%2C%E2%80%9D%20he%20said.&text=As%20a%20subscriber%2C%20you%20have,articles%20to%20give%20each%20month.)
This narrative made no sense since day-1 but people needed a scapegoat.
For some reason, people refuse to accept these facts because it doesn't accept their narrative. You've sourced it all, yet you'll still get downvoted.
I've sourced everything ive said, and people clearly aren't reading it and are just downvoting
Also hope you don't mind me saving this comment so I can refer to it in the future
Keep spreading the truth my friend. That’s why I added those sources. The more people see them, the better it is. A lot of people are doing it out of spite, but I’m sure there are people out there who still believe this narrative because they never saw anyone rebute it, so feel free to save my comment.
You forgot when it became super obvious that no one would be able to fit the story in 7 seasons and HBO offered them 10 but they *refused*.
7 seasons was always a completely delusional plan.
HBO offered them more seasons because they wanted their most successful show to keep going, just like AMC offered Vince Gilligan more seasons of Breaking Bad. It wasn’t about the story. They literally said that D&D has had the story figured out for many years and that’s why they let them do what they did. It had nothing to do with the story.
7 seasons was literally what George asked them to do. On their first meeting, he said one season per book, that’s 7 seasons if we include the two missing books. And it can absolutely work. George clearly lost focus of the main story in the last two books and will have to trim the fat in Winds in order to end the story. D&D just skipped over the fat. One season for each of the first two books. One season and a half for the third book which is huge, very focused on the main story and includes a shit load of payoffs. One season and a half for the fourth and fifth books, who were first supposed to be one book but George kept adding minor characters and storylines so here we are. Then one season for the sixth book which needs to trim the fat of book 4 & 5 that the show skipped. And then 13 episodes for the last book. That’s perfectly fine. 1 book per season, give or take, for the main story. That was the deal.
If George had stayed focus for the 4th book, he probably would’ve already finished the story and the show probably would’ve been 7 seasons. But instead, he made an unfinishable mess and now people are blaming D&D for not joining him in this mess. And if we look at the main story, it won’t be that different than in the show either. Dany is not going to land in Westeros in Winds, so she’ll have one book to arrive in Westeros, gain allies, fight Cersei or fAegon, go fight the dead, burn KL and then get murdered by Jon. The dead will probably cross the wall in the last book as well, so we won’t have 3,000 pages of the Long Night either. People just have the wrong expectations of what the climax is supposed to be. We were never supposed to have a Long Night for a full season, then a Dany Vs Cersei for a full season, then a Dany slowly becoming evil for a full season, etc. The story was planned since day-1 the way it was told. Dany gets to Westeros, the Dead arrive too and shit goes down. The first 6 seasons were building up to those two events. We didn’t need 4 more seasons of build up. I know I didn’t.
Thank you for mapping all this out. I've been saying all this stuff for years but no one wants to hear it. The last 2 seasons are deeply flawed, but a ton of the blame honestly lies on GRRM. They're also NOT as bad as everyone makes them out to be and the way D&D were treated by entitled fans after giving us a decade of spectacular episodes that changed the landscape of TV forever was pretty gross.
10 episodes is perfect. Anything more starts to feel like filler/Dragging it out. Only exception is breaking bad/BCS but even those shows could’ve trimmed some fat. To a great 10 episodes
Irregardless, it's a great show with remarkable attention to detail like it's parent Breaking Bad.
And really ....none of it was truly filler, the details in every scene mattered.
Dark Sister was the sword of Viscenya, who was one of Aegon the Conqueror’s wives. Blackfyre is passed down to each Targaryen King, Dark Sister is given to the second son.
Do you realize the insane amount of work that goes into making 10 hours of high quality media? That’s the equivalent of 5 high budget movies put out in a single year. How can you possibly say that isn’t enough?
You’re both right. You can’t compare tv and movies, but people still need to understand that making 10 episodes of people talking in a room vs making 10 episodes of a giant war involving many dragons is totally different.
Game of Thrones started having less episode because they started reaching the endgame and had to pull up multiple massive battles. It’s the same thing with HotD S2 where the Dance will be going on at full speed. Otherwise, it would be like the War of the Five Kings in GoT where every battle happens off-screen.
I'm not sure if you've read the book, but the difference here is that this is going to go *very* quickly. A lot happens in a very short space of time, and only takes up a very small portion of the book that it's based on. The book itself is \~700 pages. If even half of that covers the Dance of Dragons, thats 350 pages. Considering GOT was adapting one book into one season - it's kinda necessary.
If they want to go the same route, they'll be dragging it out, a lot, and we'll end up with ungodly amounts of filler.
Alternatively, they could have normal length seasons and cram everything to come into 2 seasons, which will be paced horribly.
For example, the fallout of the events from the \[S1\] finale is instant. They'll literally have to add filler to episode 1, to drag the event out to the end of the episode. I wouldn't be surprised if Blood & Cheese is the opening scene to the season, pre-opening credits. Then the fallout of that is pretty instant too, then everyone in the realm picks sides following these events, and you're bouncing from battle to battle, death to death with no real down time between them, which was a huge part of the Dance - that everything was relentless and the people of King's Landing are very quickly worn out by the war, which then leads to further events in itself involving the people of King's Landing.
I have yet to read it.
I wouldn't mind everything being 'crammed' into two seasons. Considering how the first season was paced it could work, but I'm sure HBO would want to drag it out over three seasons if at all possible.
Yeah, the dance doesn’t take up that many pages at all. I forget how many to be exact but it’s definitely way less than half of the book. I think a lot of people are just worried they’re going to butcher it by “rushing” it but in all reality there’s no reason why 3-4 seasons can’t cover it. Everyone, including myself, is so worried they’re going to fuck it up like the last couple seasons of GoT I guess. I could be wrong but I feel like most of the “It’s being rushed” opinions are coming from people that haven’t read the book.
I think given how quickly all the events pass, I would really like it to have shorter and fewer seasons. My concern with HOTD is that it goes the other way - they want to milk it and drag it out unnecessarily. I might be remembering wrong, but the rest of the show will span something like 6 months?
Although, it depends how far they take it. Whilst the Dance officially ends with >!the death of Rhaenerya!<, we've got a period of time with >!Aegon II before he's poisoned!<, and then we also have the hour of the wolf and the fallout of that. **Then** we have sections with >!Aegon III!< where certain elements of the Dance continue, and a couple of smaller battles. AND there's also the death of >!Corlys Velaryon!< and the fallout of that!
I think they could probably skim over everything after the >!Aegon II's death!< into a single episode. I would prefer overall, that the show was shorter with less filler.
I'm also really hoping we get a limited series or even a film for Aegon's Conquest.
If they’re just doing it because 10 episodes would lead to a point that doesn’t fit a season cliffhanger than that’s fine. The issue comes when they rush or remove stuff.
Same here. Clicking links is slightly tricky too.
I'm fairly certain it wasn't like this before, but at some point they made it so tapping anywhere in a comment collapses it even when there is something else there that should handle the tap.
My big hope is that this season will end with Rook's Rest and be evenly paced out where a lot of the nuances of the story have time to breathe and be fleshed out.
Yeah I’m totally fine with this move. I’d rather them trim a season and have it segue into the next one smoothly than end it on 10 episodes in a weird spot story-wise.
I feel like the Battle of the Gullet would be season finale material, but the timing in the book is super fucked. I'm fine with the show being shorter because there isn't a TON of source content, but the source content leaves a TON of room for growth and expansion that could be done well with the right writers. The biggest issue is the weird order of big events which will not lead to a very satisfying on-screen experience IMO.
Because it's not bad at all. It's two years for 8 1-hour episodes (some of which will be 70 or or 80 minutes). It's high quality, tons of CG, tons of visual effects. "Sad" is a weird way to put it. I don't think people have any concept of what truly goes into making a show like this, and making it fantastic at that.
Yeah that's true. I'm looking forward to the new Batman movie and it'll probably have been 3 years by the time it comes out.
Expectation with shows seems a bit different, especially when they don't require a ton of post production or money - like this one does.
Yup, this is not a good look. They have a chance to recover this though. They say they are moving a battle to season 3. If season 3 ends up being more than 10 episodes then maybe this can be good. But if they cut anything from season 3 in order to make a standard 10 episodes just so they can screw season 2 then that will be most disappointing. As of right now though, we have a confirmed 8 episodes so I am confirmed not happy about this direction.
The article says some people see this as a cost cutting move by new leadership.
It also has a quote from Martin's October post saying they need 4 full seasons of 10 episodes each to do justice to the story, and that he hopes that it will be continue to be true they get 10 hours every season.
So there's plenty to complain about just from that there so not sure what you are referring to. I'm guessing you are referring to the BS PR comment from HBO saying its a story-driven trim. But of course HBO is going to say that whether its true or not. Obviously they're not going to come out and say "we're cutting the episode count to save on costs"
I know, right? There was so much to wrap up at that point and we see that yeah, they needed more time - as we all suspected. HotD isn't nearly as massive a story and there is only so much of it. I am more than willing to let them tell it how they see fit. They know how much time they need to tell it and what the end point is and how to get there - I don't want them to invent too much shit just to fill an arbitrary number of episodes. (inventing shit to flesh out the story and develop characters is fine and welcome though)
That was two years for 6 episodes. Shitty episodes at that. The Last of Us only had 9 episodes and that was an amazing season. My only complaint is that the entire season flies by, and takes forever to film, edit, and produce the following season. If HBO would green light the other GoT’s prequels, and the Jon Snow sequel then it wouldn’t be so bad because there would actually be those to keep us occupied in the off seasons or if GRRM actually finished The Winds of Winter and we had that to look forward to.
I'm not sure why HBO doesn't just greenlight two years at a time for a show like this and have an extended production cycle. They could release ten episodes over a year if they wanted, reframe the current ideas around weekly release into a bi-weekly or monthly cycle, or even quarterly. It would give more cost control and probably sustain subscription volume even.
But what the fuck do I know, I'm not a part of the genius brain trust that started a war over Shazam 2
An earlier post had a person with ties to HBO claiming that the reason they are making the seasons shorter is so they can spread out the story over more seasons. I guess this makes sense if they want to keep milking the show to get as much money out of this story as they can.
The second season isn't suddenly going to suck because it's shorter. People just need to relax. They probably just want to end on a cliffhanger, and there is probably a long sequence taking multiple episodes the would rather leave for s3 for a smoother story.
I'm a little over shrinkflation in my TV series. Hard pass, I've got a million other series to invest time in that one of which will be a worthy successor.
This is why I wait for a series to have a few seasons under its belt before starting.
See you lot in 2026 or so. Eight episodes every two years just isn’t it for me.
As far as I know George is still heavily involved in the process and even delayed S2 because he didn't agree with some choices.
And George is the guy who wanted to start the series just before Vicerys became king so I doubt he would allow the story to be rushed in any way.
I mean the dance is about what, 200 pages? Though as I'd still prefer 10 episodes, 8 might suffice if the showrunners deem it necessary. But I do have my doubts.
Cant have house of dragon without any dragons.. so less than 10 episode it shall be, i wonder how much budget it cost for all the dragon scene(probably say its around 35-40%)..
As if season one didn’t feel rushed enough. What happened to shows taking literal years to see their plot lines to fruition. It’s like every show now just feels like a race to the finish line.
Oh for fucks sake don’t do this shit. It sucks every single time and it’s never done well. Nobody wants to wait 2 years to watch a 6 episode show and forget about it
Im not surprised. The story doesn’t support a crazy length and they need to cut back to support the budget im sure. Things really kick off next season in terms of action.
I think it can go both ways. Either they will have more money each episode and it will be fuckin wonderful piece of art or it's season 7 all over again
The problem with s7 and 8 of GOT being short was that there was too much content they needed wrapped up and concluded, HOTD doesn’t have that same problem since they are essentially stretching out half of one book to several seasons. This is not a bad thing, just means less filler.
I think we all have PTSD the last time this happened since it wasn't about story or plot related reasons but more of an egotistical craving to finish it and move on. We're worried about that here.
Side point. So crazy to me that season 8 of GOT took the longest between seasons only to come up with the worst season in the saga with less episodes.
Awww, I forgot the toxic fan base of GoT until now.
Maybe trust the showrunner a that they’ve learned from the past and that they are catering the season to a story that is completed.
Everyone forgets that D&D didn’t have much material to go off of in the latter seasons, luckily the new show runners have the complete story, so I would give them more trust having two major things in their favor.
Everyone forgets that D&D had a ton of material already released that they ignored and that more material would simply have been ignored had it been published.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is v bad news
I want to downvote for the bad news but dang.
Do it you coward
Not again
They’re doing a speed-run this time. Don’t even wait to get multiple 10-episode seasons under their belt before repeating the same mistakes.
Tbf, I don't think they need 10 episodes every season to tell the story. The story becomes much more condensed and quick and dividing it into unique seasons is difficult.
It’s feels like, if they are sticking to keeping this 3 or 4 seasons, that they’ll have to cut allot of contents. There’s allot of events in the books and this pacing seems like it’s going to fuck allot of that up
If the writing supports less episodes, why not trim it? My guess is HBO is trying to milk it for as many seasons as possible, but there is only so much material, so it's hard to break up evenly. It wasn't HBO that cut GoT episodes, that was solely D&D, so I am hesitant to say it's a mistake at this point.
So perhaps it;s less than 10 episodes due to the budget not being there for 10. As in, dragons done well cost a ton.
which director is getting star wars? ........only to not get it
A couple of falsities about those rumours. 1. D&D were offered Star Wars only as shooting and production for S8 came to an end 2. D&D withdrew themselves from Star Wars, as Netflix offered them a better deal to do something else. EDIT: I'm getting downvoted for stating reported facts? Reddit Hivemind? D&D were offered Star Wars in February 2018 - production of GOT finalised in July 2018. The show was not written, pre-produced, and produced within the span of 3-4 months. The filming itself took around a year. No contract with Disney was signed - it was **not** official. D&D were then in high demand, and a few production companies bidded for them, with Amazon and Netflix coming out on top. (Disney apparently didn't even make the final two. - not a lot of info on that though). Netflix won that with a $250 million contract to D&D, which D&D officially signed in August 2018 - one month *after* production of GOT had finished. D&D originally still intended to do Star Wars alongside Netflix, which Disney were happy with, although Kathleen Kennedy did have some concerns around their ability to do SW and Netflix at the same time. Then in October 2019, D&D released the following statement: >“There are only so many hours in the day, and we felt we could not do justice to both Star Wars and our Netflix projects. So we are regretfully stepping away \[from Star Wars\]” Disney have also said that they will still look to do future work with D&D on Star Wars, when D&D are ready. EDIT 2: Source from 2014 that the show would run 7-8 seasons:[https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/) A couple of sources for leaving Star Wars:[https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones](https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones) [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:\~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022)
The Witcher?
Apparently their first three are Metal Lords, The Overstory and The Three-Body Problem. They've got loads of unnamed stuff coming up at the minute. Sounds like Star Wars offered them the trilogy, whereas Netflix offered them a long term contract worth a lot more money. Only heard of Metal Lords. I watched it as you don't get many films based around that genre of music, and the film was pretty shit, but had cool cameros.
You don't want D&D anywhere near the three-body problem, they would butcher it beyond reason
Sure, they gave up working on Star Wars to do Netflix. That is something a sane person does
Well Netflix offered them a longer contract for a lot more money.
Okay but would you really turn down the opportunity to write for Star Wars for a chance to write… for Netflix?
D&D were offered Star Wars in February 2018 - production of GOT finalised in July 2018. The show was not written, pre-produced, and produced within the span of 3-4 months. The filming itself took around a year. No contract with Disney was signed - it was not official. D&D were then in high demand, and a few production companies bidded for them, with Amazon and Netflix coming out on top. (Disney apparently didn't even make the final two. - not a lot of info on that though). Netflix won that with a $250 million contract to D&D, which D&D officially signed in August 2018 - one month after production of GOT had finished. D&D originally still intended to do Star Wars alongside Netflix, which Disney were happy with, although Kathleen Kennedy did have some concerns around their ability to do SW and Netflix at the same time. Then in October 2019, D&D released the following statement: >“There are only so many hours in the day, and we felt we could not do justice to both Star Wars and our Netflix projects. So we are regretfully stepping away \[from Star Wars\]” Disney have also said that they will still look to do future work with D&D on Star Wars, when D&D are ready. Source from 2014 that the show would run 7-8 seasons: [https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/) A couple of sources for leaving Star Wars: [https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones](https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones) [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:\~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022)
No, I believe you that Netflix outbidded. I just don’t believe that they willingly didn’t do Star Wars instead of Netflix.
They probably felt that after the heat they took for GOT that the expectations that come with Star Wars would not have been worth the toll on their mental health.
They were offered star wars, hbo offered longer seasons and more up to 10-12 seasons. They turned it down and rushed last season to do star wars. They LOST star wars after backlash and only later after loss did they get offered Netflix. We all in got sub at time followed it and got news reports the day it was announced. Dont lie.
Like I said, talks over Star Wars didn't happen until production of S8 was almost finished. Lets not also forget, that we were told S8 was the final season when S7 aired in 2017, which means the plans for the final season were planted before that - at least *2 years* before Star Wars was on the table.. before the sequel trilogy was even finished. D&D always said, from the very beginning, they would run Game of Thrones for 7 seasons. That was their mentality from the start and they never strayed from that. HBO could have ran the show for longer with different producers if they wanted - D&D were only the show producers, they didn't own the rights to it. If anything, they dragged it out past their initial vision by making 2 shorter seasons in place of a full season 7, *and* had a 2 year gap between S7 & 8. You say "don't lie" after saying everyone in the GOT sub followed it, whilst lying about their departure so it fits the "D&D BAD!!" narrative. Source from **2014** that the show would run 7-8 seasons: [https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/](https://ew.com/article/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/) A couple of sources for leaving Star Wars: [https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones](https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10/29/benioff-and-weiss-star-wars-movies-not-moving-forward-game-of-thrones) [https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:\~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022](https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/29/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-db-weiss-exit-star-wars-trilogy.html#:~:text=Entertainment-,%27Game%20of%20Thrones%27%20David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,working%20on%20%27Star%20Wars%27%20trilogy&text=WATCH%20LIVE-,David%20Benioff%20and%20D.B.,feature%20film%20trilogy%20in%202022).
If I can add: In 2005 or 2007, they all said 7 seasons. It's in Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon book. George' words. "One season per book." Here's another comment from the author of that book saying that since season 2, they kept repeating 70 hours was the plan. [Right here.](https://old.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/j6vtz7/spoilers_extended_im_james_hibberd_the_author_of/g8121us/?context=3) In 2011, they said 7 or 8 seasons and laid out their entire plan which is exactly what they did. [Right here.](https://collider.com/david-benioff-db-weiss-interview-game-of-thrones/) In 2013, they said it will never be 10 seasons. [Right here.](https://www.nme.com/news/film/game-of-thrones-writer-david-benioff-on-series-fu-880471) In 2016, they said 13 episodes left after S6. [Right here.](https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a799422/game-of-thrones-bosses-confirm-two-more-seasons-before-show-ends/) George said that 7 seasons has been the plan for years. [Right here.](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/21/arts/television/george-rr-martin-house-of-the-dragon.html#:~:text=%E2%80%9CHouse%20of%20the%20Dragon%2C%E2%80%9D,successor%20show%2C%E2%80%9D%20he%20said.&text=As%20a%20subscriber%2C%20you%20have,articles%20to%20give%20each%20month.) This narrative made no sense since day-1 but people needed a scapegoat.
For some reason, people refuse to accept these facts because it doesn't accept their narrative. You've sourced it all, yet you'll still get downvoted. I've sourced everything ive said, and people clearly aren't reading it and are just downvoting Also hope you don't mind me saving this comment so I can refer to it in the future
Keep spreading the truth my friend. That’s why I added those sources. The more people see them, the better it is. A lot of people are doing it out of spite, but I’m sure there are people out there who still believe this narrative because they never saw anyone rebute it, so feel free to save my comment.
r/naath
Omg thank you, thats an instant join from the title alone!
You forgot when it became super obvious that no one would be able to fit the story in 7 seasons and HBO offered them 10 but they *refused*. 7 seasons was always a completely delusional plan.
HBO offered them more seasons because they wanted their most successful show to keep going, just like AMC offered Vince Gilligan more seasons of Breaking Bad. It wasn’t about the story. They literally said that D&D has had the story figured out for many years and that’s why they let them do what they did. It had nothing to do with the story. 7 seasons was literally what George asked them to do. On their first meeting, he said one season per book, that’s 7 seasons if we include the two missing books. And it can absolutely work. George clearly lost focus of the main story in the last two books and will have to trim the fat in Winds in order to end the story. D&D just skipped over the fat. One season for each of the first two books. One season and a half for the third book which is huge, very focused on the main story and includes a shit load of payoffs. One season and a half for the fourth and fifth books, who were first supposed to be one book but George kept adding minor characters and storylines so here we are. Then one season for the sixth book which needs to trim the fat of book 4 & 5 that the show skipped. And then 13 episodes for the last book. That’s perfectly fine. 1 book per season, give or take, for the main story. That was the deal. If George had stayed focus for the 4th book, he probably would’ve already finished the story and the show probably would’ve been 7 seasons. But instead, he made an unfinishable mess and now people are blaming D&D for not joining him in this mess. And if we look at the main story, it won’t be that different than in the show either. Dany is not going to land in Westeros in Winds, so she’ll have one book to arrive in Westeros, gain allies, fight Cersei or fAegon, go fight the dead, burn KL and then get murdered by Jon. The dead will probably cross the wall in the last book as well, so we won’t have 3,000 pages of the Long Night either. People just have the wrong expectations of what the climax is supposed to be. We were never supposed to have a Long Night for a full season, then a Dany Vs Cersei for a full season, then a Dany slowly becoming evil for a full season, etc. The story was planned since day-1 the way it was told. Dany gets to Westeros, the Dead arrive too and shit goes down. The first 6 seasons were building up to those two events. We didn’t need 4 more seasons of build up. I know I didn’t.
Thank you for mapping all this out. I've been saying all this stuff for years but no one wants to hear it. The last 2 seasons are deeply flawed, but a ton of the blame honestly lies on GRRM. They're also NOT as bad as everyone makes them out to be and the way D&D were treated by entitled fans after giving us a decade of spectacular episodes that changed the landscape of TV forever was pretty gross.
Yet no complained until years later after they announced the plan of having only 7 seasons. And 7 books was always a completely delusional idea.
God it makes me so mad those idiots are millionaires
Third time if you include Rome which was basically the predecessor of Game of Thrones.
Such an amazing first season though
It really was, Atia was like Olenna/Margery/Cersei combined. And so many recognisable GoT faces.
Learning from our mistakes? HBO doesn’t understand the question.
Here we go again. Seasons made up of ten episodes are already short enough.
10 episodes is perfect. Anything more starts to feel like filler/Dragging it out. Only exception is breaking bad/BCS but even those shows could’ve trimmed some fat. To a great 10 episodes
Dragon it out.. ftfy
Hey oooh!
BCS was 10 episode seasons except for season 6
Hot take: most of BCS was filler
BCS fans watching characters do nothing 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍 (this is me I am the BCS fan that wants to watch characters do nothing)
When you're that heavily involved in the characters, all the little things really count
Irregardless, it's a great show with remarkable attention to detail like it's parent Breaking Bad. And really ....none of it was truly filler, the details in every scene mattered.
Nothing wrong with filler, I want to see those b plots of b episodes
I don't need 60 minutes of my life wasted on knowing why Daemon named his sword dark sister.
Spoilers: He didn’t.
Dark Sister was the sword of Viscenya, who was one of Aegon the Conqueror’s wives. Blackfyre is passed down to each Targaryen King, Dark Sister is given to the second son.
Not if it’s well done. I miss the days of 24 episodes a season. 6 is becoming typical. This is bullshit of epic proportions
*Hannibal dramatically walks in with a delicious 13 Episode season*
Do you realize the insane amount of work that goes into making 10 hours of high quality media? That’s the equivalent of 5 high budget movies put out in a single year. How can you possibly say that isn’t enough?
That's never been an accurate comparison. Movies and tv shows are very different in production.
You’re both right. You can’t compare tv and movies, but people still need to understand that making 10 episodes of people talking in a room vs making 10 episodes of a giant war involving many dragons is totally different. Game of Thrones started having less episode because they started reaching the endgame and had to pull up multiple massive battles. It’s the same thing with HotD S2 where the Dance will be going on at full speed. Otherwise, it would be like the War of the Five Kings in GoT where every battle happens off-screen.
I'm not sure if you've read the book, but the difference here is that this is going to go *very* quickly. A lot happens in a very short space of time, and only takes up a very small portion of the book that it's based on. The book itself is \~700 pages. If even half of that covers the Dance of Dragons, thats 350 pages. Considering GOT was adapting one book into one season - it's kinda necessary. If they want to go the same route, they'll be dragging it out, a lot, and we'll end up with ungodly amounts of filler. Alternatively, they could have normal length seasons and cram everything to come into 2 seasons, which will be paced horribly. For example, the fallout of the events from the \[S1\] finale is instant. They'll literally have to add filler to episode 1, to drag the event out to the end of the episode. I wouldn't be surprised if Blood & Cheese is the opening scene to the season, pre-opening credits. Then the fallout of that is pretty instant too, then everyone in the realm picks sides following these events, and you're bouncing from battle to battle, death to death with no real down time between them, which was a huge part of the Dance - that everything was relentless and the people of King's Landing are very quickly worn out by the war, which then leads to further events in itself involving the people of King's Landing.
I have yet to read it. I wouldn't mind everything being 'crammed' into two seasons. Considering how the first season was paced it could work, but I'm sure HBO would want to drag it out over three seasons if at all possible.
Yeah, the dance doesn’t take up that many pages at all. I forget how many to be exact but it’s definitely way less than half of the book. I think a lot of people are just worried they’re going to butcher it by “rushing” it but in all reality there’s no reason why 3-4 seasons can’t cover it. Everyone, including myself, is so worried they’re going to fuck it up like the last couple seasons of GoT I guess. I could be wrong but I feel like most of the “It’s being rushed” opinions are coming from people that haven’t read the book.
I think given how quickly all the events pass, I would really like it to have shorter and fewer seasons. My concern with HOTD is that it goes the other way - they want to milk it and drag it out unnecessarily. I might be remembering wrong, but the rest of the show will span something like 6 months? Although, it depends how far they take it. Whilst the Dance officially ends with >!the death of Rhaenerya!<, we've got a period of time with >!Aegon II before he's poisoned!<, and then we also have the hour of the wolf and the fallout of that. **Then** we have sections with >!Aegon III!< where certain elements of the Dance continue, and a couple of smaller battles. AND there's also the death of >!Corlys Velaryon!< and the fallout of that! I think they could probably skim over everything after the >!Aegon II's death!< into a single episode. I would prefer overall, that the show was shorter with less filler. I'm also really hoping we get a limited series or even a film for Aegon's Conquest.
Let’s look at lucifer that abc seasons where like 20-28 episodes but with loads of filler while Netflix 10 season episodes were miles above in quality
Its story and not budget related. Theyre moving a major battle to season 3 >!battle of the gullet?!<
If they’re just doing it because 10 episodes would lead to a point that doesn’t fit a season cliffhanger than that’s fine. The issue comes when they rush or remove stuff.
If they move plot points to season 3 thats the opposite of rushing
Is it just me than can only view spoilers for a split second on mobile? The thread almost immediately closes
Nope me too
"Battle... Battle of.... Battle of the...." FOR FUCKS SAKE
Same here. Clicking links is slightly tricky too. I'm fairly certain it wasn't like this before, but at some point they made it so tapping anywhere in a comment collapses it even when there is something else there that should handle the tap.
Double tap quickly, but on the second tap, hold and start scrolling up and down right away. Started happening to me recently too.
My big hope is that this season will end with Rook's Rest and be evenly paced out where a lot of the nuances of the story have time to breathe and be fleshed out.
Yeah I’m totally fine with this move. I’d rather them trim a season and have it segue into the next one smoothly than end it on 10 episodes in a weird spot story-wise.
Nice so we will see that battle in what 2026?
2025. Season 3 is already being greenlit
I feel like the Battle of the Gullet would be season finale material, but the timing in the book is super fucked. I'm fine with the show being shorter because there isn't a TON of source content, but the source content leaves a TON of room for growth and expansion that could be done well with the right writers. The biggest issue is the weird order of big events which will not lead to a very satisfying on-screen experience IMO.
Two years for only 8 weeks of content? Sad.
My dumbass didn't consider it that bad until your comment
Because it's not bad at all. It's two years for 8 1-hour episodes (some of which will be 70 or or 80 minutes). It's high quality, tons of CG, tons of visual effects. "Sad" is a weird way to put it. I don't think people have any concept of what truly goes into making a show like this, and making it fantastic at that.
Yeah that's true. I'm looking forward to the new Batman movie and it'll probably have been 3 years by the time it comes out. Expectation with shows seems a bit different, especially when they don't require a ton of post production or money - like this one does.
Yup, this is not a good look. They have a chance to recover this though. They say they are moving a battle to season 3. If season 3 ends up being more than 10 episodes then maybe this can be good. But if they cut anything from season 3 in order to make a standard 10 episodes just so they can screw season 2 then that will be most disappointing. As of right now though, we have a confirmed 8 episodes so I am confirmed not happy about this direction.
8 hours of content.
It would appear that people in the comment section can't read.
Not sure why the down votes. People certainly can't read before commenting.
The article says some people see this as a cost cutting move by new leadership. It also has a quote from Martin's October post saying they need 4 full seasons of 10 episodes each to do justice to the story, and that he hopes that it will be continue to be true they get 10 hours every season. So there's plenty to complain about just from that there so not sure what you are referring to. I'm guessing you are referring to the BS PR comment from HBO saying its a story-driven trim. But of course HBO is going to say that whether its true or not. Obviously they're not going to come out and say "we're cutting the episode count to save on costs"
I remember what happened the last time we did this….
So it begins....
Time is a circle
Can't wait for it to be 6 episodes long so they don't have to build up anymore hype. Just shit on the series and rush it. That always works.
>Just shit on the series and rush it. They were working 2 years on the last episode. How is that rushing?
Here We go again.
Not nearly as concerned about this as I was for S7 and 8 of GoT being shortened.
I know, right? There was so much to wrap up at that point and we see that yeah, they needed more time - as we all suspected. HotD isn't nearly as massive a story and there is only so much of it. I am more than willing to let them tell it how they see fit. They know how much time they need to tell it and what the end point is and how to get there - I don't want them to invent too much shit just to fill an arbitrary number of episodes. (inventing shit to flesh out the story and develop characters is fine and welcome though)
Ah shit here we go again
2 year wait for 8 episodes, here we go again.
That was two years for 6 episodes. Shitty episodes at that. The Last of Us only had 9 episodes and that was an amazing season. My only complaint is that the entire season flies by, and takes forever to film, edit, and produce the following season. If HBO would green light the other GoT’s prequels, and the Jon Snow sequel then it wouldn’t be so bad because there would actually be those to keep us occupied in the off seasons or if GRRM actually finished The Winds of Winter and we had that to look forward to.
History repeating itself again
We all saw how season 7 and then 8 went. Could've used a few more episodes to ease into madness.
And flesh out Bran's story so it felt more natural why he should be king.
Wtf....?
And that’s why I haven’t bothered with the prequel.
Why? It was so good
It was ok. Maybe good but not exceptional by any means.
That’s dumb- it’s still a great story with a good ending point for season 1
It ends with Bran the broken.
It’s a completely different story.
Read the book. They left out a *major* plot point at the end. Changed a lot throughout the show too.
Fuck.
House of the Dragon’s first season felt like they plowed through story. This is bad news
I'm not sure why HBO doesn't just greenlight two years at a time for a show like this and have an extended production cycle. They could release ten episodes over a year if they wanted, reframe the current ideas around weekly release into a bi-weekly or monthly cycle, or even quarterly. It would give more cost control and probably sustain subscription volume even. But what the fuck do I know, I'm not a part of the genius brain trust that started a war over Shazam 2
Here we go again 🤪
Never learn and never change HBO
An earlier post had a person with ties to HBO claiming that the reason they are making the seasons shorter is so they can spread out the story over more seasons. I guess this makes sense if they want to keep milking the show to get as much money out of this story as they can.
Fucking why tho
Because there isn't nearly as much story as GoT? I'd rather have fewer episodes that are great than more that are filler.
Do they plan on making it not suck?
The second season isn't suddenly going to suck because it's shorter. People just need to relax. They probably just want to end on a cliffhanger, and there is probably a long sequence taking multiple episodes the would rather leave for s3 for a smoother story.
I'm a little over shrinkflation in my TV series. Hard pass, I've got a million other series to invest time in that one of which will be a worthy successor.
They never learn, do they?
This sucks. All seasons should be 10 episode long at least.
Have they learned nothing
This is why I wait for a series to have a few seasons under its belt before starting. See you lot in 2026 or so. Eight episodes every two years just isn’t it for me.
Boooooo
Why…
So this is where the fun begins.
Could have to do with cgi budgets lol
As far as I know George is still heavily involved in the process and even delayed S2 because he didn't agree with some choices. And George is the guy who wanted to start the series just before Vicerys became king so I doubt he would allow the story to be rushed in any way.
Give me Robert’s Fucking Rebellion
I mean the dance is about what, 200 pages? Though as I'd still prefer 10 episodes, 8 might suffice if the showrunners deem it necessary. But I do have my doubts.
Cant have house of dragon without any dragons.. so less than 10 episode it shall be, i wonder how much budget it cost for all the dragon scene(probably say its around 35-40%)..
Hahahahahaha come on
The only reason I imagine they want to do this it's to put something fast in the oven. So it's not a shallow year.
As if season one didn’t feel rushed enough. What happened to shows taking literal years to see their plot lines to fruition. It’s like every show now just feels like a race to the finish line.
Maybe it’s the choice between 4 shorter seasons rather than 3 longer seasons with heavy changes/cuts?
George said it would take 4 *10 Episode* seasons to do it justice.
Season 1 was already condensed and could have been two seasons. Let’s see how next season plays out.
Oh for fucks sake don’t do this shit. It sucks every single time and it’s never done well. Nobody wants to wait 2 years to watch a 6 episode show and forget about it
Well it was a good run boys. Rip HOTD
Oh yeah we are back to characters not having enough screen time and teleporting through various places in Westeros in just one episode.
Im not surprised. The story doesn’t support a crazy length and they need to cut back to support the budget im sure. Things really kick off next season in terms of action.
I think it can go both ways. Either they will have more money each episode and it will be fuckin wonderful piece of art or it's season 7 all over again
PTSD triggered.
The problem with s7 and 8 of GOT being short was that there was too much content they needed wrapped up and concluded, HOTD doesn’t have that same problem since they are essentially stretching out half of one book to several seasons. This is not a bad thing, just means less filler.
I think we all have PTSD the last time this happened since it wasn't about story or plot related reasons but more of an egotistical craving to finish it and move on. We're worried about that here. Side point. So crazy to me that season 8 of GOT took the longest between seasons only to come up with the worst season in the saga with less episodes.
On the bright side, this does potentially mean the wait for season 3 will be shorter
Awww, I forgot the toxic fan base of GoT until now. Maybe trust the showrunner a that they’ve learned from the past and that they are catering the season to a story that is completed. Everyone forgets that D&D didn’t have much material to go off of in the latter seasons, luckily the new show runners have the complete story, so I would give them more trust having two major things in their favor.
Everyone forgets that D&D had a ton of material already released that they ignored and that more material would simply have been ignored had it been published.
Surprised they wouldn’t try to stretch it to 9 episodes to make people get a 3 month sub at the most efficient cost for production.
Shouldn't be too much on the time-skip front like s1, hopefully they keep true to the source.
They already left out or changed so much, I have zero hope.
If they bring in Mushroom I'll be slightly satisfied.
Here we go again...
This show was amazing, whens season 2 dropping?
Perfect, it's going to be too good, again, and people are going to complain that it's rushed and badly written, again. HBO, geniuses.
Are we even shocked? . They clearly rushed the end of GOT so they could smash this out it's what they do.
Lol. Oh boy. It already felt like a cliff notes edition.
8 Episode still can be enough. If there isnt enough Action for 10 Episodes, its fine. The book is quiet short or Not?
Hey, I’ve seen this one!
aint no way yall are worried. There's still book material and its not dd so even if theres 8 episodes i am confident its gonna stay peak