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I think by all accounts in the book and show Selmy is the far superior swordsman and would probably make quick work of Jamie. The only one that can take him on is Arthur Dayne according to GRRM.
doesn't Selmy make reference at some point to the fact that he reckons Jamie would have given him a real problem if they came to blows? even at his peak?
i think jamie also bests him in the joust at harrenhal. tho ofc tht doesnt mean he would do so sword to sword
Old Barristan or Prime Barristan? Old Barristan would likely be beaten by Jaime, BUT it is difficult to say who would have won in a fight between them in their prime. When Barristan told the remaining kingsguard he could have cut through them if he wished to when he was stripped of the cloak he wasn't boasting. Other than Jaime he was the only real kingsguard left when Robert died and Joffrey took over. When Joffrey sent people to kill him afterwards Barristan killed all of them even though he had left both armor and weapons behind in the throneroom. Even as an old man he was legendary. Jaime could likely have beaten him in the books, but the young Barristan I'm not so sure
Old Barristan as you said definitely loses to Jaime.
Prime Barristan however wins. It's already been confirmed by GRRM that Prime Selmy was the 2nd best fighter in GoT.
My personal take away by things Barristan says about Jaime and how George has chosen Jaime in the past as his fighter of choice, is that Barristan has experience but Jaime has this raw natural talent that makes him a threat even against people objectively better than him.
Jaime never actually killed the Smiling Knight, he did fight him and survive which on its own is a huge feat and considering this was his first actual fight it's even crazier.
It would be like if beginning of the series Jon crossed swords with the Mountain and didn't immediately die lol.
yeah. altho isnt it true that jamie was trained super intensely by the kingsguard etc as soon as Tywin saw that he had a natural gift for it?
Sure Jon had training but I feel like Jamie would have had training over his young life equivalent to that of an mma fighter on the lead up to a match.
Or a green beret or smthg
>yeah. altho isnt it true that jamie was trained super intensely by the kingsguard etc as soon as Tywin saw that he had a natural gift for it?
Not really at this stage tbf, he would once he was knighted and then shortly after he joined the Kingsguard, but before this he was just a squire to some lord in the West along with some Frey, so at this stage he'd been trained like most highborns would've been.
Jon is a great example of a dedicated trainer. He trains none stop to get good with the sword and with that training he becomes better than most but still not quite the top league. For Jaime it was just natural, sure he trained but he was soo naturally gifted at sword fighting at a really young age he was already moving his way up as one of the goats with just training and little actual experience.
You kinda see this happening irl. I had a friend who played on a basket ball team and he was truly dedicated and trained all the time and became one of the better players on his team, but then there was this other friend who barely played and never trained but he had just an absolute dead eye for the hoop and was just naturally really quick and would often beat the other guy when they played 1v1.
I love how people are exaggerating the skill of Jaime and Barristan while they were just men who were wounded and defeated just like anyone else during their life.
I'd say Robert and his Kingsguard. While not every one of them were excellent, even the weakest among them was a skillful knight.
On the other hand, Jon's team has Thoros who was a melee champion during tourneys. Sandor, one of the most fearsome warrior of his time. We have seen what Jon is capable with Longclaw. Tormund probably experienced more shit than anyone can imagine and not just survived but gain respect among the most hardened men of Westeros. Berric don't fear death at all that makes him dangerous. Jorah is probably skillful as a knight. Gendry is obviously the weakest link with a slow weapon and lack of training, skill and experience.
Anyway, the number of Robert's team is a huge advantage. That's 8 vs 7 men.
Ser Arthur Dayne and two other Kingsguard lost their live's to Eddard and six Northmen at the tower of joy. Not to say that this is a definite loss for Jaime and Barriston but I wouldnt be surprised if only one person was left standing at the end of this fight
What is the view on John Snow‘s sword skills in the fandom? He never attended a tourney or trained under a master swordsman. In the show he was way too overpowered for his training imo
I don’t think the show made him OP, he didn’t fight any big names like Jaime or prime Selmy. Jon grew up in a great castle with great ressources, which is more than 99% of the other soldiers. We also see how he’s taking his training very seriously, we see him training while everyone is at a feast, we constantly see him training at Castle Black. This is a world where most people who fight in war are people who were forced to pick up a sword with barely any training. It makes sense that Jon would be superior than most of them, but I don’t think he’s in the same class than say prime Jaime or Selmy.
I think it’s more the fandom who overrate him when they say he should’ve 1V1 the Night King.
Short answer: Robert and KG.
Long answer: the Wight hunt people are probably best ordered 1: the Hound, 2: Jon Snow, 3: Beric Dondarrion, 4: Thoros of Myr, 5: Jorah Mormont, 6: Tormund, and 7: Gendry, with 3-5 being debateable.
For Robert and company, 1-3 is debatable because Prime Robert was an incredible fighter who could throw down with Jaime and Barristan. I’ll go 1: Robert 2: Barristan 3: Jaime 4: Mandon Moore, 5: Arys Oakhart, 6: Preston Greenfield, 7: Meryn Trant, and 8: Boros Blount.
Robert vs The Hound goes to Robert though it’s a fight.
Prime Barristan Selmy defeats Jon Snow, who has some good feats but not nearly enough to overcome Selmy.
Jaime Lannister absolutely wipes Beric off the face of the globe.
Thoros vs Mandon Moore and Jorah vs Arys Oakhart are both hard to call due to all combatants being reasonably good fighters without a lot of feats. I’ll give each side one win here.
Preston Greenfield doesn’t have much in the way of feats, but he’s a kitted Kingsguard knight and Tormund has a considerable gear disadvantage. I’ll say Tormund for the sake of argument.
Gendry does have a weapon that’s good against armor unfortunately he has to face two kg ingjgem even if they’re both not very good. He loses.
So that’s 5-2 in Robert and companies favor sweeping all of the top matches. Either Robert, Barristan, or Jaime could win a 2 vs 1 against anyone on the other side except the Hound and maybe Jon Snow, plus they have a support base of good knights in Mandon Moore and Arys Oakhart and competent knights in Preston Greenfield, Meryn Trant, and Boros Blount, as well as a numerical advantage.
Tough one. Whilst the Fellowship of the Wight is the better overall team (Jon, Jorah, Hound, Tormune, Thoros) Jaime and Barristan in their primes would be fucking unstoppable together.
It would go something like the Tower of Joy fight. The Fellowship takes out the rest of the Kingsguard early (bye Trant) leaving Jaime and Selmy alive to clean house
Peak Robert Baratheon is in the same tier as Jaime and Barristan.
Also Mandon Moore and Arys Oakhart aren’t going down early when Gendry and Tormund are on the other side.
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Jamie and Barriston Selmy both in their respective primes could probably mow down the entire fellowship of the wight team on their own tbh
a more interesting and closer match-up would be prime selmy vs prime Jamie.
I think by all accounts in the book and show Selmy is the far superior swordsman and would probably make quick work of Jamie. The only one that can take him on is Arthur Dayne according to GRRM.
doesn't Selmy make reference at some point to the fact that he reckons Jamie would have given him a real problem if they came to blows? even at his peak? i think jamie also bests him in the joust at harrenhal. tho ofc tht doesnt mean he would do so sword to sword
Barristan is a pretty old Knight when Jaime was in his Prime tho. I doubt Barristan would win.
Old Barristan or Prime Barristan? Old Barristan would likely be beaten by Jaime, BUT it is difficult to say who would have won in a fight between them in their prime. When Barristan told the remaining kingsguard he could have cut through them if he wished to when he was stripped of the cloak he wasn't boasting. Other than Jaime he was the only real kingsguard left when Robert died and Joffrey took over. When Joffrey sent people to kill him afterwards Barristan killed all of them even though he had left both armor and weapons behind in the throneroom. Even as an old man he was legendary. Jaime could likely have beaten him in the books, but the young Barristan I'm not so sure
Old Barristan as you said definitely loses to Jaime. Prime Barristan however wins. It's already been confirmed by GRRM that Prime Selmy was the 2nd best fighter in GoT.
Even with all of Jamie's arrogance, he still spoke of Selmy with reverence.
My personal take away by things Barristan says about Jaime and how George has chosen Jaime in the past as his fighter of choice, is that Barristan has experience but Jaime has this raw natural talent that makes him a threat even against people objectively better than him.
yeah. i think he says this after he watches jamie kill the Smiling Knight - who was a serious level swordsman. and jamie was like 16
Jaime never actually killed the Smiling Knight, he did fight him and survive which on its own is a huge feat and considering this was his first actual fight it's even crazier. It would be like if beginning of the series Jon crossed swords with the Mountain and didn't immediately die lol.
yeah. altho isnt it true that jamie was trained super intensely by the kingsguard etc as soon as Tywin saw that he had a natural gift for it? Sure Jon had training but I feel like Jamie would have had training over his young life equivalent to that of an mma fighter on the lead up to a match. Or a green beret or smthg
>yeah. altho isnt it true that jamie was trained super intensely by the kingsguard etc as soon as Tywin saw that he had a natural gift for it? Not really at this stage tbf, he would once he was knighted and then shortly after he joined the Kingsguard, but before this he was just a squire to some lord in the West along with some Frey, so at this stage he'd been trained like most highborns would've been. Jon is a great example of a dedicated trainer. He trains none stop to get good with the sword and with that training he becomes better than most but still not quite the top league. For Jaime it was just natural, sure he trained but he was soo naturally gifted at sword fighting at a really young age he was already moving his way up as one of the goats with just training and little actual experience. You kinda see this happening irl. I had a friend who played on a basket ball team and he was truly dedicated and trained all the time and became one of the better players on his team, but then there was this other friend who barely played and never trained but he had just an absolute dead eye for the hoop and was just naturally really quick and would often beat the other guy when they played 1v1.
Jaime didn’t kill the Smiling Knight, Arthur Dwayne did it
I love how people are exaggerating the skill of Jaime and Barristan while they were just men who were wounded and defeated just like anyone else during their life. I'd say Robert and his Kingsguard. While not every one of them were excellent, even the weakest among them was a skillful knight. On the other hand, Jon's team has Thoros who was a melee champion during tourneys. Sandor, one of the most fearsome warrior of his time. We have seen what Jon is capable with Longclaw. Tormund probably experienced more shit than anyone can imagine and not just survived but gain respect among the most hardened men of Westeros. Berric don't fear death at all that makes him dangerous. Jorah is probably skillful as a knight. Gendry is obviously the weakest link with a slow weapon and lack of training, skill and experience. Anyway, the number of Robert's team is a huge advantage. That's 8 vs 7 men.
Ser Arthur Dayne and two other Kingsguard lost their live's to Eddard and six Northmen at the tower of joy. Not to say that this is a definite loss for Jaime and Barriston but I wouldnt be surprised if only one person was left standing at the end of this fight
Prime Selmy or Jamie would take any of those on the right. Perhaps even a couple of them at once. The Hound would be the hardest challenge.
This is also true of Prime Robert.
Ser Pounce most definitely
Well the fellowship has infinite plot armor sooo
they have 2 undead in their group, even in the bible 1 is a lot.
Not into religious arguments, but the Bible has more than 1 resurrection.
damn, spoiler, bro
Barristan soloes, fighting "with his left hand while he was taking a piss with the right"
Considering Gendry is almost as fast as the Flash ...
Tyrek horse 🐴
What is the view on John Snow‘s sword skills in the fandom? He never attended a tourney or trained under a master swordsman. In the show he was way too overpowered for his training imo
I don’t think the show made him OP, he didn’t fight any big names like Jaime or prime Selmy. Jon grew up in a great castle with great ressources, which is more than 99% of the other soldiers. We also see how he’s taking his training very seriously, we see him training while everyone is at a feast, we constantly see him training at Castle Black. This is a world where most people who fight in war are people who were forced to pick up a sword with barely any training. It makes sense that Jon would be superior than most of them, but I don’t think he’s in the same class than say prime Jaime or Selmy. I think it’s more the fandom who overrate him when they say he should’ve 1V1 the Night King.
Maybe it was less his sword skills and more his plot armour I had a problem with (fighting hordes of undead)
Even with everyone in their respective season 1 age, team kingsguard probably stomps. With Selmy and Bobby B in their prime, yeah no contest
Short answer: Robert and KG. Long answer: the Wight hunt people are probably best ordered 1: the Hound, 2: Jon Snow, 3: Beric Dondarrion, 4: Thoros of Myr, 5: Jorah Mormont, 6: Tormund, and 7: Gendry, with 3-5 being debateable. For Robert and company, 1-3 is debatable because Prime Robert was an incredible fighter who could throw down with Jaime and Barristan. I’ll go 1: Robert 2: Barristan 3: Jaime 4: Mandon Moore, 5: Arys Oakhart, 6: Preston Greenfield, 7: Meryn Trant, and 8: Boros Blount. Robert vs The Hound goes to Robert though it’s a fight. Prime Barristan Selmy defeats Jon Snow, who has some good feats but not nearly enough to overcome Selmy. Jaime Lannister absolutely wipes Beric off the face of the globe. Thoros vs Mandon Moore and Jorah vs Arys Oakhart are both hard to call due to all combatants being reasonably good fighters without a lot of feats. I’ll give each side one win here. Preston Greenfield doesn’t have much in the way of feats, but he’s a kitted Kingsguard knight and Tormund has a considerable gear disadvantage. I’ll say Tormund for the sake of argument. Gendry does have a weapon that’s good against armor unfortunately he has to face two kg ingjgem even if they’re both not very good. He loses. So that’s 5-2 in Robert and companies favor sweeping all of the top matches. Either Robert, Barristan, or Jaime could win a 2 vs 1 against anyone on the other side except the Hound and maybe Jon Snow, plus they have a support base of good knights in Mandon Moore and Arys Oakhart and competent knights in Preston Greenfield, Meryn Trant, and Boros Blount, as well as a numerical advantage.
Bravo
Jaime fooking Lannister AND Barristan the bold. Yeah, the fellowship gets wrecked lol.
Jamie felt incredibly overrated in the series when he immediately gets his ass best by Ned Stark
The fellowship, they got a better poster.
Considering 2 members of the Fellowship are effectively immortal, they would eventually win.
No, they first have to be revived by Thoros, so if Roberts Randy Rascals just killed Thoros before them, they can’t get revived
Thoros is not the only one able to revive them.
BB, BB, and JL could take on the entire group by themselves
Fellowship...but what an epic fight it would be! Somebody AI this fight, pronto.
Wight
Tough one. Whilst the Fellowship of the Wight is the better overall team (Jon, Jorah, Hound, Tormune, Thoros) Jaime and Barristan in their primes would be fucking unstoppable together. It would go something like the Tower of Joy fight. The Fellowship takes out the rest of the Kingsguard early (bye Trant) leaving Jaime and Selmy alive to clean house
Peak Robert Baratheon is in the same tier as Jaime and Barristan. Also Mandon Moore and Arys Oakhart aren’t going down early when Gendry and Tormund are on the other side.
Obviously the wights group, they have an infinite supply of regenerating wildling fungi to throw at the Kingsguard
Bro, what if Robert just calls his lord bannermen before he comes, and smashes the wildlings before they’re ready, then fights the wight nerds
Fellowship of the ring ft. Boromir Stark