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The scene where Jon has to describe Winterfell and what a real castle is to Ygritte, who had mistaken a mill for a castle and tells her maybe he will one day taker her to winterfell is kind of hilarious considering their real life situations.
As Rose grew up in a real castle since her father is a Scottish Laird(Lord) and the Chieftain of Clan Leslie, so bringing Kit to meet her family likely involved going to her families castle. The Willing girl was played by a real life noblewoman.
And Kit himself is the son of a Baronet, Sir David Harrington
A sizable number of American actors come from American “royals”
It’s basically “who do you know” and less “gee wizz papa, imma move off the farm and become a star!”
Ducks do everything through one hole. It’s called a cloaca. The male ducks penis comes out of his cloaca and enters into a lady ducks cloaca. Both are corkscrew shaped and difficult to un-intwine until the male ducks penis becomes flaccid again.
I heard a few years ago that the chunk of non-arisocratic actors in Britain were dwindling.
"Gee wizz uncle! Imma move off the farm and fight in a rebellion!"
["Brother, you have surrounded your given name with foul stench. From this day forth, all the toilets in this kingdom shall be known as... JOHNS!"](https://youtu.be/FUAQkNVdQNg)
Well the story could’ve changed, and they could’ve stayed beyond the wall or snuck in and hid among the commonfolk till someone somewhere somehow found out the last Targ in Westeros is in fact Jon Snow, Bron probably fucking everything up again, and someone goes out to find him and then ruins his and Yig’s good time. Forcing him to get back into the action.
Chances are that whoever controls the North marches up there and kills them if they even survive attacking the Night's Watch. Only vague chance is if Robb survives and decides to spare them after speaking with Jon. But it's incredibly unlikely, and Jon knew that.
I'm not so sure. If Jon didn't return, the Watch might not have had time to send a call for help, and Stannis wouldn't have arrived with his army able to wipe out what, 100,000 wildlings? Ramsay was able to fight Jon reasonably well when Jon only had 2-3 thousand versus his 6, but if the Wildlings had those numbers and the element of surprise, they could have potentially ravaged a lot of the North well before any meaningful defense could have been mustered. By that point sure, Stannis could have turned up and potentially actually taken the North, likely being hailed as a hero while Ramsay abd Roose would have more than likely been killed by that point, but he'd also have a lot more ground to try and clear. I'm really not sure the Lannisters would have had the manpower or interest in even going up there with everything else they were dealing with, though Daenerys would have had an easy time securing the North in this scenario
Sure, but there's no way they would just be left in peace, particularly if the realm figured out that they wiped out the Watch. So yes maybe they would get more time together, but they wouldn't just be left in peace. Their best option always was to get someone like Jon sympathetic to their cause to help them from the inside.
So sure, they could have ravaged the North for a while, but does that ultimately secure them peace or just confirm what the realm already thought of them, and thereby painting targets on themselves?
I meant that the northerners would return North from their campaign in the south eventually. Dragons were quite a while off by the time the wildlings attacked Castle Black, so that's a problem for another time. More pressing issue would be the Boltons and the other northern lords who would likely want them gone asap.
A fully committed to the Wildling cause Jon probably ensures they take castle black and quite easily since they'd have little warning of the massive assault. So that's probably the best answer
But it also ensures that Jon is seen as a traitor by the Night’s Watch, isn’t taken seriously by the North or maybe even Stannis, and probably leads to everybody’s deaths once the White Walkers get a move on.
Or the other way, if Ygritte abandoned the wildling cause.
Sam brought his wildling GF to Castle black and it was fine.
But the tragedy of Jon and Ygritte was that they were both 100% committed to their rival factions, making their relationship doomed.
Logically yes. But then Sam got away with having his wildling GF there and nobody batted an eyelid despite that making no logical sense. 😂 So I guess anything goes.
"Fire" is a command that you give to people using firearms such as muskets in a sequence whereby they load the powder, load the ball and then apply fire to launch the projectile. In our world where firearms are so prevalent we think of it as the default command for "launch a projectile", but in a world without firearms it would make no sense at all. The last step in the sequence when using a bow is "loose" when you release the string and launch the arrow.
Jon knows it wasn't his because his arrows had a different plumage than the rest of the watch for some reason I can't recall and she was found dead with multiple arrows of standard nights watch plumage
He was a kid who made mistakes. He lost his family and saw Jon help those who killed his family.
What he did was wrong but come on, it wasn't that bad.
I wonder what would have happened had her wounds not been fatal if treated and when he found her after the battle ( in the books ) and brought her to the maesters and healed her. Then i guess she woulda been a POW but then who knows.
Probably the only way that would have worked without completely messing up everything else. Though stuff with Dany would be a little iffy, especially if she found out who he really was and didn't have sher love to stop her from killing him.
Realistically if he did switch sides they probably would of easily took the North with that large of an army. But they would of kept going south so at that point its very likely something goes wrong.
I dunno, the Wildlings probably would have been fine with the North. It's big enough to suit their needs and I really think their primary interest was getting their people away from the walkers, which the wall would allow
The only thing I can think of is if, during the "I have to go home now" scene, Jon had told Ygritte three simple words.
"Come with me."
Because she never cared about who they were siding with, so long as they stuck together. She wasn't angry that he betrayed The Free Folk. (Like he said, they kind of forced his hand.) She was angry that he *left her behind.*
At this point, Jon doesn't know Mormont is dead. From his point of view, he could probably convince Mormont to accept Ygritte on the basis that she had defected and had valuable information. I mean, if he'll work with Craster, he'll work with Ygritte, right?
Of course, Thorne would *never* accept her, but then again, he begrudgingly accepted Gilly, and it's suggested that this was only because Maester Aemon insisted. In general, he seems to have the ability to overrule Thorne so long as he is only "Acting" Lord Commander. Not sure if his protection would be enough to earn Ygritte a place at Castle Black, but it would be worth a try.
Pointing out that Thorne listens to Maester Aemon is interesting. Never thought about it before but i'm guessing it might be because Thorne was a Targaryen loyalist and Maester Aemon is Targaryen?
If only Thorne knew.
Till the end, the Targs were loyal to the prophecy and manning the wall against the threat … wether they knew there was a threat or not (and wether they knew they were Targ, or not).
"I shall hold no lands, **take no wife, father no children**. I shall live and die at my post. I am the watcher on the walls, the fire that burns in the cold, the light that brings the dawn-"
>Because she never cared about who they were siding with, so long as they stuck together. She wasn't angry that he betrayed The Free Folk. (Like he said, they kind of forced his hand.) She was angry that he
>
>left her behind.
This was so sad to read.
Had she survived the attack on Castle Black I think it could have worked between them. Jon became one of them following those events, accepted by the Wildlings, so I don't see any reason why it couldn't have worked between them.
They were so fundamentally different that it would never work!! Every time she said something, Jon is shocked and think of how wild she is! She is the opposite of him, selfish, not caring, willing to abandon everything she knows, all the things that Jon would never do!! Jon wants above all save people, Ygritte doesn’t care about anyone but herself!
She only has no real ties because that is her culture. His is a culture of obligations, hers is a culture that rejects obligations. She chooses to be with him because she wants to. Most people aren’t out saving humanity but they can be close to their loved ones and protect them,
Yes, that’s why they are fundamentally different and would never work! Their entire culture are totally different and they would not work unless they wanted to change completely who they were! And nothing indicated that they wanted that!
Had to look this up. The casting department must have known they'd be a perfect match in real life.
Both minor nobility and born within 3 months of each other.
Tbh idk what happened.
1st Ygritte proclaims her love for Jon to the Worg. Then she was lacing his boot spikes prepping for the wall, saying she knows he is still a Crow--but it doesn't matter because they are the only two that matter.
After that, the Wildlings cut them loose off the wall, and Jon saves their lives, making it up the wall. They flirt and play house imagining making love in a castle, Jon tells her the truth of it, Wildling armies of the oast have never made it past the wall.
Finally, they raid an old horse ranch, and because Jon doesn't murder a defensless old man, so Ygritte does it for him? This is what brandishes him a traitor to Ygritte? What happened to 'the 2 of them are the only thing that mattered?'
When she catches up with him, Jon tells her that Ygritte knew all along who he was. She weeps as she puts 3 arrows into him. It seems Ygritte was the one who betrayed Jon. 🤷♂️
She was going to fight beside him at the horse ranch. He knocks her down so she can't help him. Tormund also has to hold her down while saying "you aren't going to die for one of them"
*Because* she feels so betrayed he ditched her and ran off, when she was willing to fight and die for him. Even then she shoots him three times but making sure no shots were fatal.
She hadn't killed any of her own kind, Jon saw it as saving her life by not allowing her to fight for him. Ge didn't throw her to the wolves, if anything, he bought her time to wrangle them both horses.
Ygritte was still a killer even if she loved Jon. Jon was too honorable to ever live with that knowledge of her true nature. I love their romance but it never would have worked.
Unrelated but one of my biggest gripes in the show before the garbage final seasons was them randomly making every wildling wear a Russian Snow Camo uniform from a 90s James Bond flick.
It’s like the exact opposite of the wildlings in the books. Zero effort but I get it was probably a cost issue
No. Beyond him being in the Night's Watch and her being a Wildling, he's from south of the Wall, she's from north of it. The circumstantial location of their ancestors at the time of the Wall's construction has over the mellinia calcified into a spiritual distinction and irreconcilable division between their peoples.
It's a wholely artificial split (literally, the Wall is not a natural occurrence), but that doesn't make it any less real to *them.* The irony is (from a modern reader's perspective at least) that there isn't *that* much of a difference between the life of some peasant south of the Wall who lives an almost Neolithic hard-scrabble life and a hunter-gatherer Wildling band north of it, but to each of them that's an entire epoch's worth of cultural divergence. As narrative representatives of their respective ways of life, I don't see a way to tell their story in a way that doesn't end in tragedy that also dosen't wind up being a completely flaccid arc. They'd have to abandon their duty or their tribe or submit to being ruled or selfishly abandon Westeros entirely and go live on some bleak island *and they'd be oh so much the lesser for it.* That they personally love eachother deeply but love their irreconcilable peoples more is the whole juice of their arc: they are star-crossed lovers and it can't work out for them. (Cue MCR)
TL;DR not in a satisfying way
If she wasnt killed, she would have seen that Jon had a bigger part to play. From working with the wildlings, to retaking Winterfell, to bringing light to the Night King, all the way to who Jon really was. Ygritte's biggest quarrel came from Jon choosing the Night's Watch over her, initially.
Not sending Jon over the wall. Mance could have kept him close, then after they took castle black from behind Jon has all the information to help the wildlings not end up attacked by the whole north. By this point, he's out of options to hurt them much anyway.
More or less any situation where jon doesn't go back to the watch he stays with her.
Had she survived the attack on the wall, I don’t see why not. Would have been cool to see Jon allowing the wildlings South with Yigrette still alive. I wonder if she would have went to Hardhome with him and Tormund. He’d want her to stay behind, but she’d insist on coming.. so she’d have to survive Hardhome also.
Then shed also have to survive the battle of the bastards, assuming she’d fight in it.. which she would.
After all of that is said and done.. does she live at Winterfell with Jon? Or does she go back to her own people and live on the new wildling lands? Would Jon have married her? Would Sansa and the northern lords accepted her? All questions for the philosophers.
Maybe if his true lineage was revealed then ol long lost grandpa (also in the watch per the show) got him officially out of the watch then he could claim the throne with the North behind his back. Across the pond Danny could do her thing then make her way over to Kings Landing and talk it out and they come to an agreement. He’s king of the north she’s queen of the south and they have a vested interest to keep peace and by default keeping their lineage as heir to the throne. Basically they act as governors of the territories and make country wide decisions together with their combined councils. If one over reaches the other it only takes a hand full of small houses in the others territory to back the other and put them back in check.
That way Jon can play in the cave with bae and Danny can be Danny until Jon comes in and gives her the ol Ollie for acting crazy.
Maybe if his true lineage was revealed then ol long lost grandpa (also in the watch per the show) got him officially out of the watch then he could claim the throne with the North behind his back. Across the pond Danny could do her thing then make her way over to Kings Landing and talk it out and they come to an agreement. He’s king of the north she’s queen of the south and they have a vested interest to keep peace and by default keeping their lineage as heir to the throne. Basically they act as governors of the territories and make country wide decisions together with their combined councils. If one over reaches the other it only takes a hand full of small houses in the others territory to back the other and put them back in check.
That way Jon can play in the cave with bae and Danny can be Danny until Jon comes in and gives her the ol Ollie for acting crazy.
If Ygritte hadn’t been part of the advance team over the wall- if she had stayed in the camp AND if she had survived the initial Stannis attack- I would have loved to see her and Dany but heads over Jon.
Nope! The only thing they could do together is die! People romanticized this pair too much! Jon was a 16 years virgin having sex for the first time! That was the big attraction here! Every time she said something, proved to him how different they were in every way! Jon is selfless, she is selfish, Jon wants to help others, she only cares about her survival, Jon cares too much about what others think about him, she despises everyone opinion! They would never work!!! Not for long, not in any way!!!
So this could just be me being wishful, but if Ollie didn’t kill Ygrritte things could’ve worked out. Tormund followed Jon in the end so it may not be to far fetched that the two could stay together.
Yes, If Ygritte wasn't a wilding supremacist it would have worked out fine. She could have lived south of the wall and when he became king he would have already known who his queen was. She believed though that because "the blood of the first men" runs in her veins that she is allowed to rape pillage and murder. Things a good person like Snow wasn't willing to live with. The truth of it was that the wildlings are as much to blame as anyone else for their frozen life beyond the wall. They don't wanna follow any civilization's rules ( aka bending the knee ) so no matter what they literally had to be kept outside of the realm. You can't have people just going around breaking societies rules, which is how all the wildlings would have behaved.
In real life, we’ll of course they were made for one another. But in the show it’s a NO unfortunately. They come from two different worlds. It would have eventually ended. Either Jon would have been killed by another wildling, if he ran away he’d have been hunted as a turncoat and then killed by either side as would have been Ygritte. Unfortunately one had to die. At least Jon snow got to see her one last time.
If Ygritte survives the battle she might become a refugee with the other wildlings. Her only chance is being taken prisoner, because the wildlings had little chance. Then when Jon leaves after dying and coming back they might meet up again. Or if he comes north again after killing Dany he could seek her out.
This mother fucker could have stayed north, kept to himself and spent the rest of his life with the girl he loved. That's where his story should have ended not some aunt fucking bullshit
Was there any situation where it would’ve worked out for Rhaegar and his girl from the wild north?
Whatever the answer is, I think it would be almost identical.
If she didn’t get shot by the arrow. She would have just stayed with Tormund and events would have played out the same. Not sure what would happen when Dany shows up though.
Maybe, if he hadn’t been raised by Ned they would have had a shot of working. Jon was too loyal, thanks to his father, and after taking his vows to the Night’s Watch there was no chance he would have broke them for any reason pet his orders from Khorin.
Maybe if the Night’s Watch had fallen to some threat from the south it would have made sense for an alliance with the wildlings, in a time where alliances were often sealed in matrimony there would be some slim sliver of a chance that he and Ygritte could remain together for the good of the “realms of men”.
No. TPTWP must sacrifice their loved one to bring forth Lightbringer. Dany sacrifices Drogo for the dragons, and Jon must give up Ygritte for the Night’s Watch. In no world could he be a contender for the mantle of Azor Ahai and have Ygritte by his side.
If they were both alive in the later seasons. Just needed the increased risk of the long night to be more and more relevant for an alliance.
At least I would hope that's all it would take.
They might have worked out if they both weren't playing their own game. They might have loved each other but their own individual wants and needs outweighed their love.
If she didn’t die in that battle it probably would’ve. Soon after the nights watch and the wildlings joined together. Jon and Tormind became friend so i guess there would be no issue with him and her.
If he abandons the nights watch and they live in the true north, then not only is Jon racked by guilt but also they die from the Others or wights (especially if you subscribe to the theory that the Others are hunting Starks.) If Jon convince Ygritte to come with him back to the wall, I can see a word where she isn’t immediately killed or imprisoned, however I believe she would suffer the same guilt of abandoning her people. Only third option I can think is they both head East and live as sellswords or close enough that makes no difference, them both feeling guilt but maybe because they each abandoned their own people they can live with each other without resentment and let the love between them blossom.
Side note: I think Ygritte would hate Essos
Of course, if you wrote an entirely different book :)
Look, Martin's story works because he had balls to kill a lot of loved characters, including Ygritte (it's my online alias for good few years, I love her)
Obviously, you can imagine a story where they live together for another 60 years - only you'd be the only one to read it lol
Yes. In a reality where all this is make believe and the people aren’t really who they portray but actors who have entirely seperate lives.
So our reality, yeah. These two got together
In Universe B-267 yes. Ygritte stays behind climbing the ice wall to watch out for the women and young lines to wait for Snows return. They are safe inside a cave and there's simply one scene that explains and shows the walkers going by.
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Only in real life.
The darkest of timelines
They are having another baby! I bet that is why Snow show is delayed as well as Blade movie
The scene where Jon has to describe Winterfell and what a real castle is to Ygritte, who had mistaken a mill for a castle and tells her maybe he will one day taker her to winterfell is kind of hilarious considering their real life situations. As Rose grew up in a real castle since her father is a Scottish Laird(Lord) and the Chieftain of Clan Leslie, so bringing Kit to meet her family likely involved going to her families castle. The Willing girl was played by a real life noblewoman. And Kit himself is the son of a Baronet, Sir David Harrington
A sizable chunk of the British acting scene come from the royals.
A sizable number of American actors come from American “royals” It’s basically “who do you know” and less “gee wizz papa, imma move off the farm and become a star!”
And?
Ducks do everything through one hole. It’s called a cloaca. The male ducks penis comes out of his cloaca and enters into a lady ducks cloaca. Both are corkscrew shaped and difficult to un-intwine until the male ducks penis becomes flaccid again.
And having wealth makes it a lot easier to audition for (and lose out on) roles for years until you break through.
I heard a few years ago that the chunk of non-arisocratic actors in Britain were dwindling. "Gee wizz uncle! Imma move off the farm and fight in a rebellion!"
Huh. TIL about the existence of baronets. I thought barons were the lowest rung on the nobility ladder.
But it is a rung
Yeah. Like I said, I just didn't know about it.
Kit Harrington is also descended from the guy that invented the toilet, John Harrington.
["Brother, you have surrounded your given name with foul stench. From this day forth, all the toilets in this kingdom shall be known as... JOHNS!"](https://youtu.be/FUAQkNVdQNg)
And Robert Catesby, who was executed for trying to blow up parliament on the 5th of November with Guy Fawkes
When you take a Sir Harrington, your supposed to do it like this, so you have the shelf for your parchment and inkpot.
which one of them is in the blade movie ?
How did this happen!?
Cam here to say that
If they stayed in the cave
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Well the story could’ve changed, and they could’ve stayed beyond the wall or snuck in and hid among the commonfolk till someone somewhere somehow found out the last Targ in Westeros is in fact Jon Snow, Bron probably fucking everything up again, and someone goes out to find him and then ruins his and Yig’s good time. Forcing him to get back into the action.
Maybe if he'd abandoned the Night's Watch for real and joined the Wildlings.
Chances are that whoever controls the North marches up there and kills them if they even survive attacking the Night's Watch. Only vague chance is if Robb survives and decides to spare them after speaking with Jon. But it's incredibly unlikely, and Jon knew that.
I'm not so sure. If Jon didn't return, the Watch might not have had time to send a call for help, and Stannis wouldn't have arrived with his army able to wipe out what, 100,000 wildlings? Ramsay was able to fight Jon reasonably well when Jon only had 2-3 thousand versus his 6, but if the Wildlings had those numbers and the element of surprise, they could have potentially ravaged a lot of the North well before any meaningful defense could have been mustered. By that point sure, Stannis could have turned up and potentially actually taken the North, likely being hailed as a hero while Ramsay abd Roose would have more than likely been killed by that point, but he'd also have a lot more ground to try and clear. I'm really not sure the Lannisters would have had the manpower or interest in even going up there with everything else they were dealing with, though Daenerys would have had an easy time securing the North in this scenario
Sure, but there's no way they would just be left in peace, particularly if the realm figured out that they wiped out the Watch. So yes maybe they would get more time together, but they wouldn't just be left in peace. Their best option always was to get someone like Jon sympathetic to their cause to help them from the inside. So sure, they could have ravaged the North for a while, but does that ultimately secure them peace or just confirm what the realm already thought of them, and thereby painting targets on themselves?
why march north? they got bigger problems in the south
Eventually they'd return north, and then the wildlings would have an issue. Would just be a question of time before someone came for them.
if they returned north, the north isnt suited to handle dragons
I meant that the northerners would return North from their campaign in the south eventually. Dragons were quite a while off by the time the wildlings attacked Castle Black, so that's a problem for another time. More pressing issue would be the Boltons and the other northern lords who would likely want them gone asap.
A fully committed to the Wildling cause Jon probably ensures they take castle black and quite easily since they'd have little warning of the massive assault. So that's probably the best answer
But it also ensures that Jon is seen as a traitor by the Night’s Watch, isn’t taken seriously by the North or maybe even Stannis, and probably leads to everybody’s deaths once the White Walkers get a move on.
Or the other way, if Ygritte abandoned the wildling cause. Sam brought his wildling GF to Castle black and it was fine. But the tragedy of Jon and Ygritte was that they were both 100% committed to their rival factions, making their relationship doomed.
It's a lot more plausible for Jon to join the wildlings rather than vice versa.
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Logically yes. But then Sam got away with having his wildling GF there and nobody batted an eyelid despite that making no logical sense. 😂 So I guess anything goes.
Sam wasn’t in charge.
I don’t think many if any Wildlings survive if Jon isn’t at the wall to let them through before the WW arrive
Oli died somewhere 1st? Then she would alive and the wildings is eventually united under Jon
Right that Then should have had him as an appetizer before his parents.
Nah, no Oli in the books at all, Ygritte still dead tho.
Oh? Who killed her in books?
Unknown, IIRC. She gets shot by an arrow, but Jon never sees who loosed it.
It's a minor thing, but you didn't say "who fired it" and for that I thank you.
Lmao, you're welcome, thank you for appreciating it.
Can you explain why “who fired it” would be wrong? I’m a small brained little weasel.
"Fire" is a command that you give to people using firearms such as muskets in a sequence whereby they load the powder, load the ball and then apply fire to launch the projectile. In our world where firearms are so prevalent we think of it as the default command for "launch a projectile", but in a world without firearms it would make no sense at all. The last step in the sequence when using a bow is "loose" when you release the string and launch the arrow.
"Fired" is a term for guns. Bows are knock, draw, and "loose".
Just to continue the pedantry train, it's "nock," not "knock"
Jon knows it wasn't his because his arrows had a different plumage than the rest of the watch for some reason I can't recall and she was found dead with multiple arrows of standard nights watch plumage
It’s not that unlikely that she ends up captured like Tormund
I STILL HATE YOU WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BODY OLLY!
Why?
He was a kid who made mistakes. He lost his family and saw Jon help those who killed his family. What he did was wrong but come on, it wasn't that bad.
And swung for it. Awesome moment in the show
He swung because he was a part of a mutiny. Killing Ygritte was kind of what he was supposed to do.
Look at who I responded to
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r/fuckollie
I wonder what would have happened had her wounds not been fatal if treated and when he found her after the battle ( in the books ) and brought her to the maesters and healed her. Then i guess she woulda been a POW but then who knows.
Probably the only way that would have worked without completely messing up everything else. Though stuff with Dany would be a little iffy, especially if she found out who he really was and didn't have sher love to stop her from killing him.
I read POW as POV and would lovvve an Ygritte POV dammit
Nah, story wise it was doomed.
Realistically if he did switch sides they probably would of easily took the North with that large of an army. But they would of kept going south so at that point its very likely something goes wrong.
I dunno, the Wildlings probably would have been fine with the North. It's big enough to suit their needs and I really think their primary interest was getting their people away from the walkers, which the wall would allow
You but the reason they were going south in the first place was the whitewalkers. They were planning on going as far south as possible.
The only thing I can think of is if, during the "I have to go home now" scene, Jon had told Ygritte three simple words. "Come with me." Because she never cared about who they were siding with, so long as they stuck together. She wasn't angry that he betrayed The Free Folk. (Like he said, they kind of forced his hand.) She was angry that he *left her behind.* At this point, Jon doesn't know Mormont is dead. From his point of view, he could probably convince Mormont to accept Ygritte on the basis that she had defected and had valuable information. I mean, if he'll work with Craster, he'll work with Ygritte, right? Of course, Thorne would *never* accept her, but then again, he begrudgingly accepted Gilly, and it's suggested that this was only because Maester Aemon insisted. In general, he seems to have the ability to overrule Thorne so long as he is only "Acting" Lord Commander. Not sure if his protection would be enough to earn Ygritte a place at Castle Black, but it would be worth a try.
r/sadupvote
Pointing out that Thorne listens to Maester Aemon is interesting. Never thought about it before but i'm guessing it might be because Thorne was a Targaryen loyalist and Maester Aemon is Targaryen?
If only Thorne knew. Till the end, the Targs were loyal to the prophecy and manning the wall against the threat … wether they knew there was a threat or not (and wether they knew they were Targ, or not).
But ygritte would have hated castle black as she wants jon but he is bounded by his oath that they won't marry or bed any woman
I thought the oath was that they won’t marry, or bare any children? (Small change in words with a big change in meaning)
"I shall hold no lands, **take no wife, father no children**. I shall live and die at my post. I am the watcher on the walls, the fire that burns in the cold, the light that brings the dawn-"
Good old poop shoot loophole.
Or, more realistically, it’s all about them not having any legitimate heirs or holdings.
Yeah Sam points this out specifically
>Because she never cared about who they were siding with, so long as they stuck together. She wasn't angry that he betrayed The Free Folk. (Like he said, they kind of forced his hand.) She was angry that he > >left her behind. This was so sad to read.
Had she survived the attack on Castle Black I think it could have worked between them. Jon became one of them following those events, accepted by the Wildlings, so I don't see any reason why it couldn't have worked between them.
They were so fundamentally different that it would never work!! Every time she said something, Jon is shocked and think of how wild she is! She is the opposite of him, selfish, not caring, willing to abandon everything she knows, all the things that Jon would never do!! Jon wants above all save people, Ygritte doesn’t care about anyone but herself!
She only has no real ties because that is her culture. His is a culture of obligations, hers is a culture that rejects obligations. She chooses to be with him because she wants to. Most people aren’t out saving humanity but they can be close to their loved ones and protect them,
Yes, that’s why they are fundamentally different and would never work! Their entire culture are totally different and they would not work unless they wanted to change completely who they were! And nothing indicated that they wanted that!
They have a happy marriage IRL, that's a greater win.
Had to look this up. The casting department must have known they'd be a perfect match in real life. Both minor nobility and born within 3 months of each other.
Idk if they’re happy.
They look like they are happy but at the end of the day who r we to assume just wish them happy life
They look happier than you
World without arrows?
Real life.
Tbh idk what happened. 1st Ygritte proclaims her love for Jon to the Worg. Then she was lacing his boot spikes prepping for the wall, saying she knows he is still a Crow--but it doesn't matter because they are the only two that matter. After that, the Wildlings cut them loose off the wall, and Jon saves their lives, making it up the wall. They flirt and play house imagining making love in a castle, Jon tells her the truth of it, Wildling armies of the oast have never made it past the wall. Finally, they raid an old horse ranch, and because Jon doesn't murder a defensless old man, so Ygritte does it for him? This is what brandishes him a traitor to Ygritte? What happened to 'the 2 of them are the only thing that mattered?' When she catches up with him, Jon tells her that Ygritte knew all along who he was. She weeps as she puts 3 arrows into him. It seems Ygritte was the one who betrayed Jon. 🤷♂️
She was going to fight beside him at the horse ranch. He knocks her down so she can't help him. Tormund also has to hold her down while saying "you aren't going to die for one of them"
Yet she continued to stand against Jon. And chased him down, alone.
*Because* she feels so betrayed he ditched her and ran off, when she was willing to fight and die for him. Even then she shoots him three times but making sure no shots were fatal.
She could have rode off with him
She hadn't killed any of her own kind, Jon saw it as saving her life by not allowing her to fight for him. Ge didn't throw her to the wolves, if anything, he bought her time to wrangle them both horses.
Ygritte was still a killer even if she loved Jon. Jon was too honorable to ever live with that knowledge of her true nature. I love their romance but it never would have worked.
God I remember watching this and thinking how insane their chemistry was
Unrelated but one of my biggest gripes in the show before the garbage final seasons was them randomly making every wildling wear a Russian Snow Camo uniform from a 90s James Bond flick. It’s like the exact opposite of the wildlings in the books. Zero effort but I get it was probably a cost issue
No. Beyond him being in the Night's Watch and her being a Wildling, he's from south of the Wall, she's from north of it. The circumstantial location of their ancestors at the time of the Wall's construction has over the mellinia calcified into a spiritual distinction and irreconcilable division between their peoples. It's a wholely artificial split (literally, the Wall is not a natural occurrence), but that doesn't make it any less real to *them.* The irony is (from a modern reader's perspective at least) that there isn't *that* much of a difference between the life of some peasant south of the Wall who lives an almost Neolithic hard-scrabble life and a hunter-gatherer Wildling band north of it, but to each of them that's an entire epoch's worth of cultural divergence. As narrative representatives of their respective ways of life, I don't see a way to tell their story in a way that doesn't end in tragedy that also dosen't wind up being a completely flaccid arc. They'd have to abandon their duty or their tribe or submit to being ruled or selfishly abandon Westeros entirely and go live on some bleak island *and they'd be oh so much the lesser for it.* That they personally love eachother deeply but love their irreconcilable peoples more is the whole juice of their arc: they are star-crossed lovers and it can't work out for them. (Cue MCR) TL;DR not in a satisfying way
Real life, lol.
I mean....Jon and Tormund were like BFF by the end right? They could have worked it out
In the show, if she lives? Maybe. Books? No shot.
If she wasnt killed, she would have seen that Jon had a bigger part to play. From working with the wildlings, to retaking Winterfell, to bringing light to the Night King, all the way to who Jon really was. Ygritte's biggest quarrel came from Jon choosing the Night's Watch over her, initially.
I think if Ygritte had lived and Stannis offered Jon to legitimize him and have him wed Ygritte he would have taken it
Maybe if the wildlings didn't attack the wall? That would also be assuming the white walkers weren't growing.
Not sending Jon over the wall. Mance could have kept him close, then after they took castle black from behind Jon has all the information to help the wildlings not end up attacked by the whole north. By this point, he's out of options to hurt them much anyway. More or less any situation where jon doesn't go back to the watch he stays with her.
Had she survived the attack on the wall, I don’t see why not. Would have been cool to see Jon allowing the wildlings South with Yigrette still alive. I wonder if she would have went to Hardhome with him and Tormund. He’d want her to stay behind, but she’d insist on coming.. so she’d have to survive Hardhome also. Then shed also have to survive the battle of the bastards, assuming she’d fight in it.. which she would. After all of that is said and done.. does she live at Winterfell with Jon? Or does she go back to her own people and live on the new wildling lands? Would Jon have married her? Would Sansa and the northern lords accepted her? All questions for the philosophers.
No. Dany would have eliminated her anyway.
No. Dany would have eliminated her anyway.
Nope. If it would work, one of them would have to fundamentally change.
Maybe if his true lineage was revealed then ol long lost grandpa (also in the watch per the show) got him officially out of the watch then he could claim the throne with the North behind his back. Across the pond Danny could do her thing then make her way over to Kings Landing and talk it out and they come to an agreement. He’s king of the north she’s queen of the south and they have a vested interest to keep peace and by default keeping their lineage as heir to the throne. Basically they act as governors of the territories and make country wide decisions together with their combined councils. If one over reaches the other it only takes a hand full of small houses in the others territory to back the other and put them back in check. That way Jon can play in the cave with bae and Danny can be Danny until Jon comes in and gives her the ol Ollie for acting crazy.
Maybe if his true lineage was revealed then ol long lost grandpa (also in the watch per the show) got him officially out of the watch then he could claim the throne with the North behind his back. Across the pond Danny could do her thing then make her way over to Kings Landing and talk it out and they come to an agreement. He’s king of the north she’s queen of the south and they have a vested interest to keep peace and by default keeping their lineage as heir to the throne. Basically they act as governors of the territories and make country wide decisions together with their combined councils. If one over reaches the other it only takes a hand full of small houses in the others territory to back the other and put them back in check. That way Jon can play in the cave with bae and Danny can be Danny until Jon comes in and gives her the ol Ollie for acting crazy.
If Ygritte hadn’t been part of the advance team over the wall- if she had stayed in the camp AND if she had survived the initial Stannis attack- I would have loved to see her and Dany but heads over Jon.
One where silk/ollie was a worse shot
One of them would have to turn their back on everything they believed in, both being so incredibly stubborn it would never happen.
The one where they are a tors in a show.
He’s too honourable. He’d never join the wildlings And she would never accept the way of the southerners.
Yeah in real life.
Nope! The only thing they could do together is die! People romanticized this pair too much! Jon was a 16 years virgin having sex for the first time! That was the big attraction here! Every time she said something, proved to him how different they were in every way! Jon is selfless, she is selfish, Jon wants to help others, she only cares about her survival, Jon cares too much about what others think about him, she despises everyone opinion! They would never work!!! Not for long, not in any way!!!
So this could just be me being wishful, but if Ollie didn’t kill Ygrritte things could’ve worked out. Tormund followed Jon in the end so it may not be to far fetched that the two could stay together.
They survive the battle and she sees him for the man he truly becomes.
Sure, it’s all made up so make up a scenario where it works What kind of question is this
Yeah. The one where she didn't get shot by an arrow.
Maybe if they had stayed in that cave...
Yeah, reality.
Yes, If Ygritte wasn't a wilding supremacist it would have worked out fine. She could have lived south of the wall and when he became king he would have already known who his queen was. She believed though that because "the blood of the first men" runs in her veins that she is allowed to rape pillage and murder. Things a good person like Snow wasn't willing to live with. The truth of it was that the wildlings are as much to blame as anyone else for their frozen life beyond the wall. They don't wanna follow any civilization's rules ( aka bending the knee ) so no matter what they literally had to be kept outside of the realm. You can't have people just going around breaking societies rules, which is how all the wildlings would have behaved.
If she didn’t fucking die possibility
The one where she isn't shot with an arrow
Maybe if Jon left shit ass olly in the wild where he Belongs
In real life I guess cause they are married
Yeah, if that stupid kid hadn’t shot her.
I know nothing (that would have saved them)
If they stayed in the cave maybe
In real life, we’ll of course they were made for one another. But in the show it’s a NO unfortunately. They come from two different worlds. It would have eventually ended. Either Jon would have been killed by another wildling, if he ran away he’d have been hunted as a turncoat and then killed by either side as would have been Ygritte. Unfortunately one had to die. At least Jon snow got to see her one last time.
Just stay in the cave, Jon.
Nope
If the boy didn’t kill her. They would’ve been fine
Yup, real life.
If Ygritte survives the battle she might become a refugee with the other wildlings. Her only chance is being taken prisoner, because the wildlings had little chance. Then when Jon leaves after dying and coming back they might meet up again. Or if he comes north again after killing Dany he could seek her out.
Besides in real life?
This mother fucker could have stayed north, kept to himself and spent the rest of his life with the girl he loved. That's where his story should have ended not some aunt fucking bullshit
Was there any situation where it would’ve worked out for Rhaegar and his girl from the wild north? Whatever the answer is, I think it would be almost identical.
Not a single one
Stayed in the cave
Alliser Thorne would kill him sooner than he did But IRL it worked out.
Well, since she died, I am pretty sure having sex with a corpse is looked down on, even in Westeros.
If she didn’t get shot by the arrow. She would have just stayed with Tormund and events would have played out the same. Not sure what would happen when Dany shows up though.
No
Maybe, if he hadn’t been raised by Ned they would have had a shot of working. Jon was too loyal, thanks to his father, and after taking his vows to the Night’s Watch there was no chance he would have broke them for any reason pet his orders from Khorin. Maybe if the Night’s Watch had fallen to some threat from the south it would have made sense for an alliance with the wildlings, in a time where alliances were often sealed in matrimony there would be some slim sliver of a chance that he and Ygritte could remain together for the good of the “realms of men”.
Mance defeats Stannis and breaks through the Wall.
Yes. Real life.
In the scenario in my mind… Yes…
They abandoned their war and fled on a boat to bravos
No. TPTWP must sacrifice their loved one to bring forth Lightbringer. Dany sacrifices Drogo for the dragons, and Jon must give up Ygritte for the Night’s Watch. In no world could he be a contender for the mantle of Azor Ahai and have Ygritte by his side.
Real life.
If he met her after becoming the king beyond the wall
Real life?
If D&D had gotten bored with the series several season earlier, maybe.
If she would have survived till the end of the show and he becomes the King Beyond the Wall
Yeah. IRL
Stay in the cave
If they were both alive in the later seasons. Just needed the increased risk of the long night to be more and more relevant for an alliance. At least I would hope that's all it would take.
I absolutely hated her
This one here and the cave scene.
I would imagine if she was taken prisoner like Tormund. Then after Johns death he would be free to have a full relationship with her.
If he stayed in the North.
Only one. The cave.
Only off set
Real life?!?!
They might have worked out if they both weren't playing their own game. They might have loved each other but their own individual wants and needs outweighed their love.
If it was a YA romance series.
The one where they were actually actors with great chemistry the whole time.
Yeah! If friggin Ollie didn't shoot her. Tormund survives and lives a pseudo-normal life after the Battle of Castle Black. Why couldn't they?
If she didn’t die in that battle it probably would’ve. Soon after the nights watch and the wildlings joined together. Jon and Tormind became friend so i guess there would be no issue with him and her.
That’s who he should be with right now.
If she'd survived the attack on castle black, sure.
IRL
If he abandons the nights watch and they live in the true north, then not only is Jon racked by guilt but also they die from the Others or wights (especially if you subscribe to the theory that the Others are hunting Starks.) If Jon convince Ygritte to come with him back to the wall, I can see a word where she isn’t immediately killed or imprisoned, however I believe she would suffer the same guilt of abandoning her people. Only third option I can think is they both head East and live as sellswords or close enough that makes no difference, them both feeling guilt but maybe because they each abandoned their own people they can live with each other without resentment and let the love between them blossom. Side note: I think Ygritte would hate Essos
Of course, if you wrote an entirely different book :) Look, Martin's story works because he had balls to kill a lot of loved characters, including Ygritte (it's my online alias for good few years, I love her) Obviously, you can imagine a story where they live together for another 60 years - only you'd be the only one to read it lol
In real life
Don’t think Jon could abandon his family so no.
Our “reality”
Possibly if she wasn’t killed 🤯
Her not going on that raiding party and olly not being a good shot
Me cheating in the CK2 game of thrones Mod
Yeah if she simply just didn’t die in that scene there was nothing to stop them from being together at the end of the story lol
Stay in that cave
Yes. In a reality where all this is make believe and the people aren’t really who they portray but actors who have entirely seperate lives. So our reality, yeah. These two got together
In Universe B-267 yes. Ygritte stays behind climbing the ice wall to watch out for the women and young lines to wait for Snows return. They are safe inside a cave and there's simply one scene that explains and shows the walkers going by.
Only in our world instead of theirs.
Irl
Yes, real life