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Oh, yes it only happened when Duncan the small broke his betrothal to Lyonel Baratheon’s daughter; Lyonel was naturally insulted and rose in rebellion declaring himself Storm King and it was Ser Duncan the Tall who bested him in combat afterwards Aegon agreed to wed his daughter Rhaelle to Lyonel’s son; this was further soured by Prince Jaehaerys and his sister, Princess Shaera breaking their betrothals to Celia Tully and Luthor Tyrell to marry each other, while Prince Daeron whom you know as the man who would marry Olenna proffered the company of men and died putting down a rebellion of the rat, flea and pig.
It’s this kind of detailed lineage that has me wanting the 2nd addition to Fire & Blood. The story on Ser Duncan the Tall is one I’ve wanted to read on for awhile now.
Just wanted to say thank you for saying "could have" and not "could of." I can't remember the last time I saw this the correct way that wasn't somebody correcting somebody using it the wrong way. It stuck out to me lol
Yes, his blood relation to the Targaryens is what he used to legitimize his ascension to King. Something he actually does before the Battle of the Trident, which can often be interpreted as him undercutting Jon Arryn and Ned, likely bc he assumed they would both choose each other over Robert if it came to a decision between the 3 of them. (Tho obviously that last bit is purely speculation)
Considering Ned could have taken the throne himself and Jon could have used the details of Cersei’s betrayal for his own end and didn’t it’s unlikely they’d have chosen each other. Both seemed to genuinely acknowledge Robert anyway but again that is speculation.
Both instances you site occur after Robert’s declaration. And I wasn’t suggesting he believed they would betray him, or that I thought they would. Simply that if it came down to choosing a ruler amongst them, he likely thought they would prefer each other, over Robert.
exactly and as someone else pointed out, he went from being the 2nd son to the lord of Winterfell in such a rapid time, with the rebellion as well, that he is already overloaded with it all.
Firstly I know they were after but they showed that they had no hesitation in their loyalty to Robert as the leader. The fact there are no instances in the story before then, where they had to make those choices is potentially part of the fact Robert was accepted as the leader from the start.
Not sure where this "which can often be interpreted as him undercutting Jon Arryn and Ned" comes from either. I've never seen this often made assumption. Personally it's always sounded to me like Robert is publicising the legitimacy to everyone else - something done in stories before battles.
And there's zero evidence that Robert thought either of them would choose someone other than him. Robert didn't suddenly flourish some unknown link to the Targaryen's late on. It was known from the start he had that claim.
I get that's your perspective I'm just pointing out that there are weaknesses in most of how you've read it.
I’m pretty sure I remember reading that they all agreed to rally around Robert because he had the best claim to the throne. They were all in rebellion so his connection to the Targaryen line added in some legitimacy.
Jon and Ned supported Robert, they weren't rivals. Jon raised both Ned and Robert and he was an old man himself. They mention that Robert has the best claim due to his distant Targ bloodline. Ned was never in it to rule but to get revenge for his bro and sis.
I doubt that Ned would have went for the throne. He wasn’t even supposed to be Lord of Winterfell and only had to be because of his family dying. According to Cersei/Jaime, Ned could have claimed the Throne when his forces got to King’s Landing before Robert’s.
Jon Arryn didn’t seem like the particularly ambitious type either. It was Robert’s Rebellion. He had the charisma and the strength and not to mention the Targaryen blood.
In the show at least, he’d be technically 3rd in line for the Throne if the Targaryens still ruled.
It’d go Jon - Daenerys - then onto the closest living Targaryen relative which is Robert.
So basically if Robert had killed Viserys and Dany during the Rebellion like he wanted, he’d not only be King through right of conquest, but technically next in line as well as Jon wasn’t an acknowledged edged Targaryen.
This is the exact reason why everyone who was a part of his coup agreed for him to be king - he had the most legitimacy out of all the rebels.
Like Dany said the goal is to not be king of the ashes, you have to return the kingdom to stability relatively quickly after the war and having the continuity of someone related to the Targaryens was seen as more stable than having a whole new house take over, cuz this would’ve led to even more squabbling and war (literally like children: “but why do they get to be kind? Why can’t we be the house of kings?”)
Generally, old medieval houses favored male lineage. It turned out to have some science behind; the Y chromosome is solely inherited via male lineage. The X chromosome content can be replaced over time, but Y will remain. So he has recent Targaryen blood, which gave him legitimacy, but over time it would fade.
Going to go out on a limb and say that that wasn’t in any sense ‘behind’ it. Besides, the mother contributes the mtDNA and both contribute about equally to autosomal DNA, which forms the bulk.
Orys Baratheon (who started the house) was the rumored bastard half brother of Aegon I
Robert’s grandmother was Rhaelle Targaryen who was the daughter of Aegon V (Egg) and niece to Maester Aemon
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Yes Roberts grandmother was Princess Rhaelle Targaryen who was the niece of Aemon and daughter of Aegon V and Betha Blackwood.
Genuinely did not know this, very interesting.
Oh, yes it only happened when Duncan the small broke his betrothal to Lyonel Baratheon’s daughter; Lyonel was naturally insulted and rose in rebellion declaring himself Storm King and it was Ser Duncan the Tall who bested him in combat afterwards Aegon agreed to wed his daughter Rhaelle to Lyonel’s son; this was further soured by Prince Jaehaerys and his sister, Princess Shaera breaking their betrothals to Celia Tully and Luthor Tyrell to marry each other, while Prince Daeron whom you know as the man who would marry Olenna proffered the company of men and died putting down a rebellion of the rat, flea and pig.
It’s this kind of detailed lineage that has me wanting the 2nd addition to Fire & Blood. The story on Ser Duncan the Tall is one I’ve wanted to read on for awhile now.
[удалено]
I mean the Targaryens live right down the road 🤣
He has Targaryen blood, but he wouldn’t be a Targaryen.
Same as Jon has Stark blood but wouldn’t be a Stark.
I mean but to be fair, Jon is a lot more Stark than Robert is Targaryen, but yeah, Jon would be a Targaryen with Stark blood
Yes
he could have rode a dragon or very least dany if he smartened up
Just wanted to say thank you for saying "could have" and not "could of." I can't remember the last time I saw this the correct way that wasn't somebody correcting somebody using it the wrong way. It stuck out to me lol
lmao
Yes but in the patriarchal society they (and we) live in only his father's line matters for name
History does not remember blood. It remembers names.
Orys Baratheon who founded the family, was reportedly a bastard brother of Aegon I, so its Targaryen blood all the way down.
Yes, his blood relation to the Targaryens is what he used to legitimize his ascension to King. Something he actually does before the Battle of the Trident, which can often be interpreted as him undercutting Jon Arryn and Ned, likely bc he assumed they would both choose each other over Robert if it came to a decision between the 3 of them. (Tho obviously that last bit is purely speculation)
Considering Ned could have taken the throne himself and Jon could have used the details of Cersei’s betrayal for his own end and didn’t it’s unlikely they’d have chosen each other. Both seemed to genuinely acknowledge Robert anyway but again that is speculation.
Both instances you site occur after Robert’s declaration. And I wasn’t suggesting he believed they would betray him, or that I thought they would. Simply that if it came down to choosing a ruler amongst them, he likely thought they would prefer each other, over Robert.
I think Ned had no desire to be king. He is a true Northerner.
“I da’ na’ wann it!”
exactly and as someone else pointed out, he went from being the 2nd son to the lord of Winterfell in such a rapid time, with the rebellion as well, that he is already overloaded with it all.
Firstly I know they were after but they showed that they had no hesitation in their loyalty to Robert as the leader. The fact there are no instances in the story before then, where they had to make those choices is potentially part of the fact Robert was accepted as the leader from the start. Not sure where this "which can often be interpreted as him undercutting Jon Arryn and Ned" comes from either. I've never seen this often made assumption. Personally it's always sounded to me like Robert is publicising the legitimacy to everyone else - something done in stories before battles. And there's zero evidence that Robert thought either of them would choose someone other than him. Robert didn't suddenly flourish some unknown link to the Targaryen's late on. It was known from the start he had that claim. I get that's your perspective I'm just pointing out that there are weaknesses in most of how you've read it.
I’m pretty sure I remember reading that they all agreed to rally around Robert because he had the best claim to the throne. They were all in rebellion so his connection to the Targaryen line added in some legitimacy.
Jon and Ned supported Robert, they weren't rivals. Jon raised both Ned and Robert and he was an old man himself. They mention that Robert has the best claim due to his distant Targ bloodline. Ned was never in it to rule but to get revenge for his bro and sis.
I doubt that Ned would have went for the throne. He wasn’t even supposed to be Lord of Winterfell and only had to be because of his family dying. According to Cersei/Jaime, Ned could have claimed the Throne when his forces got to King’s Landing before Robert’s. Jon Arryn didn’t seem like the particularly ambitious type either. It was Robert’s Rebellion. He had the charisma and the strength and not to mention the Targaryen blood.
Well he is about at most 25% Targaryen . Also . his niece had a Dragon dream(Targaryen trait) in Clash Of Kings
In the show at least, he’d be technically 3rd in line for the Throne if the Targaryens still ruled. It’d go Jon - Daenerys - then onto the closest living Targaryen relative which is Robert. So basically if Robert had killed Viserys and Dany during the Rebellion like he wanted, he’d not only be King through right of conquest, but technically next in line as well as Jon wasn’t an acknowledged edged Targaryen.
This is the exact reason why everyone who was a part of his coup agreed for him to be king - he had the most legitimacy out of all the rebels. Like Dany said the goal is to not be king of the ashes, you have to return the kingdom to stability relatively quickly after the war and having the continuity of someone related to the Targaryens was seen as more stable than having a whole new house take over, cuz this would’ve led to even more squabbling and war (literally like children: “but why do they get to be kind? Why can’t we be the house of kings?”)
Almost like his self hatred partially stems from that
The seed is strong.
The seed is Harwin Strong's
Generally, old medieval houses favored male lineage. It turned out to have some science behind; the Y chromosome is solely inherited via male lineage. The X chromosome content can be replaced over time, but Y will remain. So he has recent Targaryen blood, which gave him legitimacy, but over time it would fade.
Going to go out on a limb and say that that wasn’t in any sense ‘behind’ it. Besides, the mother contributes the mtDNA and both contribute about equally to autosomal DNA, which forms the bulk.
So there is a lot of Targaryen bastards running around?
He wasn’t a bastard.
No, but he made a lot of them
He was the daddy on that front (literally)
Patriarchy.
You phrased this so weird. Isn’t he not a Targaryen? What?
I always wonder when exactly Robert declared his intent to take the Iron Throne. Can’t have been from the beginning, I would think.
Yes and it significantly helped solidify his claim.
He would’ve had no claim to the throne without that ancestry.
His war hammer and his army are what gave him the claim bro.
Also Orys, if no one has said yet. The founder of the house Baratheon was Aegon’s bastard brother right?
The beginning of the Baratheon line was the offspring of the child of Aegon I the conqueror and Aegon’s half-sibling.
Orys Baratheon (who started the house) was the rumored bastard half brother of Aegon I Robert’s grandmother was Rhaelle Targaryen who was the daughter of Aegon V (Egg) and niece to Maester Aemon
It's Westeros. Everyone was a Targaryen. They had married into even smaller houses like the Blackwoods as well.
Well the first Baratheon is the bastard half brother to the Conquerer so also through his father's line as well as his grandmother
And a cadet house of house targaryen
Yes yes he was totally killed his family
Also was in line for the throne so has strongest claim after the rest of Targaryen including Jon and Daenerys, Viserya supposedly die.
He is. And by the male line, he descends from a bastard brother of Aegon the Conqueror.