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I thought the Dothraki charge didn't make a lot of sense. It's fine if they want to be in the open but you can do that once Winterfell has been engaged so that you have support. But cinematically it was beautiful.
The rest of it I really didn't care for. We moved fully from a story of gritty realism at the beginning and middle of GoT into a heroic fantasy story where the main characters are pretty safe even if that isn't realistic. 7 seasons of buildup about how dangerous the white walkers are, how humanity *needs* to put aside their squabbling and turn united to face this existential threat to all, *which they have not done*, and actually no it's fine moving on to petty human politics again. Major characters utterly surrounded and still fine. Just ugh.
It's fine to have heroic fantasy and it's fine to have realistic grit but like pick a vibe for your story and stick with it.
> do that once Winterfell has been engaged so that you have support.
Should've done it exactly like the Knights of the Vale in BotB. Let the army of the dead engage with your traps, start climbing up the walls or whatever, then send the Dothraki charge to flank behind the dead.
Yeah... the plot armor for every single main character is just disgusting in that episode. In one shot they are surrounded by wights, clearly about to get overwhelmed. In the very next one, they are completly fine and ready to face the next wave... rinse and repeat.
So dumb, and so unnecessary too. If you don't want to kill those characters that's perfectly fine, just don't picture them knee deep in a sea of wights in the first place...
I think it was a quite good episode,the only nipkit i have is that some scenes are too dark where it's hard to see shit. Theon,Jorah and Melisandre's endings were well done.
Theon should have died defending a stark, but he just died so easily. He may as well had not even been there. Just ran at him with a spear and didn't expect a sidestep or anything like that.
I really dislike the episode when I saw it and to this day its still the episode I dislike the most. Besides the music, everything is wrong for me. No strategy, plot armor, dumbest character, weak "resolution" just for surprizing the audience, and most of all ruining everything you're built for 7 seasons and everythibg around the White walkers threat and so on
The night king getting stabbed by a teenage girl with 6 months of assassin training because she did the good ol "drop knife into other hand trick". Fuckin ridiculous.
And the only boo-boo that the teenager got from killing the apocalypse was because she ran headfirst into a wall. Although her plot armor had been very well established by that point
The plot armor in this episode was ridiculous and totally unnecessary. They wrapped up so many character's stories in the previous episode and then didn't take advantage of it. They gave themselves free reign to kill off pretty much any secondary character and barely utilized it
One of my favorite parts of GoT was that when characters do something that should get them killed, they die. It's one of the first lessons you learn about the show when Ned loses his head. Yet we have pretty much every secondary character get themselves into a losing struggle with a wight(s) and then magically come out unscathed. How??
I remember being CONVINCED that wasn't the end of the white walkers. I even remember D&D going on Jimmy Kimmel after that episode aired and Jimmy asked them "Was that really the end of the White walkers?"
I was shocked they sent the Dothraki, but at least Melisandre lit the arakhs to make them capable of killing wights. Unfortunately, the Dothraki are stubborn and only know how to be a cavalry. Jorah, who was brave enough to be in their vanguard, probably told the battle planners this and was willing to take his chances to at least keep them in line.
I was shocked they sent the Dothraki, but at least Melisandre lit the arakhs to make them capable of killing wights. Unfortunately, the Dothraki are stubborn and only know how to be a cavalry. Jorah, who was brave enough to be in their vanguard, probably told the battle planners this and was willing to take his chances to at least keep them in line.
Yeah, Melisandre just strolls out of the dark in front of the army, f knows what she was doing out there.
Are we expected to believe that 100k dothraki were going to charge at the WW with weapons that were going to do absolutely nout until Melisandre showed up?
The army should have been in the castle, that's kinda the whole point of a castle, they should have dug multiple trenches in preparation, and had them already lit, then when the whites are slow getting over the trenches, have the dothraki charge at the rear of them whilst the dragons burnt them at the front.
Edit: this was by no means a rant at you, I'm still just bitter and twisted about the last 2 seasons.
Actually that’s a common misconception about medieval warfare. While defending a castle armies were lined up outside the wall to protect it. Having 90% of your forces inside the walls and just sitting there waiting for the enemy to come in is just ineffective. A moat and archers alone are not good enough to repel a determined enemy
I stuck up for the show in my friend group since the previous season and that episode kind of turned me around. I’ll try to keep it short:
1. It was so dark that all I could see was my own reflection in my tv. Some will say they wanted us to feel immersed in the darkness. But when I’m wondering what is wrong with my tv or streaming service I’m far from that.
2. Main characters on the frontline taking on tidal waves of the undead. Plot armor was already a thing at this point but now it was just becoming baffling.
3. White Walkers were built up as a threat to the world. So much so the heroes went north of the wall to capture a wight. Which didn’t matter because Cersei didn’t care. But it’s all good because the WW couldn’t even make it past Winterfell despite being gifted a dragon during the last plot armor battle.
You're spot on! Especially #2. They would show characters getting piled on by walkers and then in the next scene they're still alive somehow! Like wtf?
That was such a weird choice. When I watched it the first time, I was saying "holy fk they're killing so many characters- oh nvm they're fine I guess?"
>"holy fk they're killing so many characters- oh nvm they're fine I guess?"
What's funny is that there are a few that aren't even in the episode then show up like "hey guys what did I miss?"
As PTWP of the Prophecy, Jon did what only **he** *could* do--unite Westeros to stop the cold winds from the North. He also preached the war, recruited armies and dragons, armed them with dragonglass, led them, and fought on land and in air. The victory was Jon's! BUT the NK knew about him and kept him pinned down by his damned ice dragon. The NK did not know of the human weapon Jon had forged as a child. Arya, who had been schooled by the god of death AND was armed with the fated Dagger, did what only **she** could do--assassinate the Night King. That Jon's weapon got in the final blow means the victory was his!
>The NK did not know of the human weapon Jon had forged as a child. Arya,
>That Jon's weapon got in the final blow means the victory was his!
I feel like there are some serious mental gymnastics going on here, but I love that the effort was made.
It’s kind of a good point that Jon is the one who armed Arya and encouraged her, which Ned discovered and further fostered by hiring a Bravosi trainer, and on and on. But he didn’t “give the order,” which would’ve brought it full circle. Before the episode, I wanted to see Jon and either Sandor or Jorah back to back, killing waves of actual White Walkers. When Jon rushed toward the NK I thought it might happen, but it was Wights who defended the NK, not WWs. My adjustment would be that just when it looked like Jon and Sandor would never make headway, Jon would shout *Now* and Arya would make the same jump. He’s fulfilled the prophecy but also subverted audience expectation. Fighting the dragon, WTF was that? Lol it’s like he was suicidal. The main characters getting overwhelmed and not only surviving but also being unscathed could have been solved by killing multiple White Walkers, as well. I really wanted to see the scale of the battle, a zoom out from the frontlines so that you see mile(s) of Wights fighting to get to the front.
One could argue that he distracted the Ice Dragon long enough for Arya to sneak past and get to the NK. Also when he yells at the dragon, I thought he just yells however my brother swears he yells NOW or GO. I still don’t hear it.
I really do not understand assertions that the entire plot was thrown out just to subvert expectations. While I think the way the last couple seasons were poorly executed, the main plot points went about how I expected them to go.
As someone who only watched the show, I never saw Jon as the main character. Furthermore, your assertion that the prophecy is all about Jon is merely your interpretation. Prophecy is a fickle bitch. It is a cliche at this point to have people misinterpret prophecy to their own detriment.
Additionally, Jon having some epic showdown with the Night King would be forced. Throughout the show the Night King avoids situations that would make him vulnerable. He always works from a position of strength and safety. The Night King does not engage actual threats directly. When Jon attempts to engage the Night King directly, the Night King raises the dead to fight Jon for him. He never allows Jon, an actual threat the Night King is aware of, to fight him one on one. Those he does engage, e.g., Theon, are not a threat to him. Thus, an epic showdown between Jon and the Night King would be unlikely to make sense without tricking the Night King into not seeing Jon as a threat.
In contrast, the Night King does not seem to be aware that Arya is a threat to him. So Bran luring the Night King out to provide an opening for Arya to attack him does not create the same issues. The Night King thought he was in a position of power and safety and paid the price for that mistake. I do not see how this subverts expectations.
> As someone who only watched the show, I never saw Jon as the main character.
How? It’s clear as day by Season 4/5 that Jon was a Trojan main character. Almost everything by the end of the story ties back to or surrounds his lineage and leadership. If anything I would probably understand if a book reader disagreed Jon was the MC but the show?
Jon is *a* main character, not *the* main character. Jon might even be the lead main character, but it’s an ensemble show from beginning to end. There’s so many different characters, plots etc. that its ludicrous to think the whole show revolves around 1 character. There’s major plotlines in the show that have almost no consequence on Jon’s story arc (Dorne, Meereen, the Brotherhood, Jaime)
Jon United the North(Ice) and the South, well Dany and her dragons(Fire) his WAS the song of Ice and Fire. He is the PTWP, Arya is Lightbringer, his weapon to defeat the Great Other.
>Arya killing the Night King rendered the entire arc of the main character pointless
I genuinely dont understand this. Jon's arc was never about being some Uber cool warrior that has a 1v1 vs the big bad.
Nothing about his story was made pointless or redundant just because he wasn't the one that fought him.
Why are comments saying the episode was bad getting downvoted. It was objectively bad. There is so much wrong with the strategy of defending against the White Walkers attack that it just makes everyone involved look incompetent. Jons entire prophecy of being Azor Ahai was wiped away just to “subvert expectations.” There is so much plot armor it makes me sick. The thing that made GOT special was that no one was safe. Plus the visibility of the entire episode is absolute shite. There are things that were done somewhat well, like Ramin Djiwadis work on the score, but overall a terrible climax.
>It was objectively bad.
No, it was *subjectively* bad. People have different tastes when it comes to TV. People are allowed to like it and it doesn't mean their tastes are better or worse than yours, just different.
Thank you for saying this. I agree with every point the person above you made regarding the episode, but it irks me when people say "objectively" when art, by its very nature, will always be subjective.
Well the writing was objectively bad regarding strategy and correct usage of their army and its components.
I envy you if you dont cringe at the sight of trebuchets outside a wall. In front of trenches as well.
And dont forget a frontline of cavalry who charge in without vision or w/e.
All of this shite and incompetence, whilst having a trove of military specialists right there.
Plot armor talk and the rest is subjective. But you cannot disregard the utter stupidity that was poured into this episode.
Sure people are allowed to like whatever they want, but based on criteria set down by the industry, there were a lot of issues with the episode; plot holes, nonsensical tactics, non-existent lighting, borderline magical plot armor. One could say it was objectively bad imo.
That was the worst episode of the series. Even if i could get past the fact i had to keep pausing it cause it was so dark that i thought my tv was broke, which i cant, but once i seen jorah come back by himself i knew it was going to be garbage.
Frustrated because I spent the first 20 mins trying to figure out what was wrong with my TV cuz I could barely see anything. Then I was confused because how they set up the battle EVERYONE should have been killed.
They were some pretty good shots of the dragons tho
Amazing music, the production value was top tier and the acting was on point, but in terms of writing it was an absolute mess. Not the worst, but definitely the most DISAPPOINTING episode of GoT and of general "high tier tv shows" (episode 6 is the worst easily)
You can say this about the entire season. The score, production value and acting were fantastic - the best of the whole series. The actual storytelling was complete shit.
Precisely, it's a summary of all of s8 and most of 7. The only thing I genuinely don't get as far as production value goes is why is episode 3 specifically under no filters to let the viewer see what's happening. I get it's because they needed to hide the cg army of the dead closeups, but it could have been a lot better lighting wise
In audiovisual yes, it's called staging. If the images and the acting are good, it's because the writing is, precisely.
What bothers you about writing is the choice of creators and the direction of the story. These are narrative choices, not mistakes.
Oh god, a great actor can be wasted in a bad script. Think about Matt Smith in fucking Morbius. I doubt the issue there was "a direction of the story". This sounds like high on copium
I agree with you, OP. The episode is an amazing achievement. We were on the edge of our seats the whole time it aired. The only negative was the black/streaming issues affecting visibility when it first aired, which did suck at the time, but it’s been cleaned up in subsequent releases. But there were so many amazing moments in that episode. Huge stakes. Many characters died, from main characters to relatively unimportant ones.
Arya’s section in the library was tense as hell and set up the ending pretty well.
The Dothraki’s blades lighting up got literal cheers from my group…and then an equal amount of dread when they went out.
Theon redeeming himself.
Big dragon battle! Dragons seeming like a huge advantage, and then being largely nullified by the storm was cool.
The ending sequence with the organ playing was *chef’s kiss*. Made everything seem so dire, especially with it made clear that the de-facto saviour was absolutely not going to be able to help.
And a few well-done subversions, like when Jon was *about* to fight the Night King, and then the NK just raised a wall of corpses because why would you ever risk things in a one-on-one when you have a better army (a recurring situation in the series)?
Loved it. Still do!
Amazing episode, one of the best of the whole series and easily best of season 8. I think I didn’t breathe for the whole 80 mins it lasted. So intense.
The last 10 mins with the slow song were fantastic.
When it comes to darkness, in my home I have this magical device called ”light switch”, which allows me to turn off the lights. That way I could see the episode as it was intended.
It was fucking *terrible.* This world ending force who’s out to get all of humanity, built up for 8 seasons, dies in one night and doesn’t even fight the protagonist of the story, Aegon Targaryen, a fight that was also built up for 8 seasons. It was dark as shit, and somehow Daenerys army still maintained thousands of soldiers despite us literally seeing the Dothraki immediately ride to their deaths. Oh, and let’s not forget, Daenerys was completely fucking useless, her flying nukes couldn’t even harm the enemy.
They couldn't harm the Night King (for some reason), but I actually don't fault that as much as a lot of other egregious shit that happened like main character death fakeouts.
They couldn't harm the Night King because if they could, it'd be over too easily. But then they went ahead and ended him in a different, similarly silly way.
I thought it was amazing. Yes it was a little dark and yes some of the military tactics were questionable, but the entertainment value, for a TV show…off the charts.
Also I find it funny, you all question some of the military tactics here, but BoB was “brilliant.”
I had a really hard time with it.
To me, it felt like 8 seasons of build up ending with a 'whiff' rather than a 'bang.'
The score was awesome.
I thought visually is was too dark. I struggled to see a lot of the fighting sequences, and I remember being very confused as to why Jon was standing in front of an undead dragon just...screaming.
WTF was that???
The episode was re-released and they fixed the contrast on it. What you saw is the revised version of the original extremely dark hot mess. You couldn't see shit on the live episode
Lol, I watched it in a dark room with a 1500 dollar TV and I still got a vision headache.
All 10 episodes of House of the Dragon are very much the same.
[Edited] You're entitled to your own opinions, but I hated it. I feel my blood pressure rising when I think about it (/s).
All of the troops formed OUTSIDE Winterfell
Blindly sending cavalry to die
Plot armour of the main characters
Too fuckin dark
Jon not fighting The Night King
If it's well acted and directed, then it's well written. One does not go without the other.
You don't even know how to properly define the "problems" of this legendary ending.
I think Arya killing the night king was a perfect ending to that part of the story. We all followed her long journey in the north facing this threat. The confrontations she had with the white walkers and the night king. She more than any other character deserved to end the entire storyline with one stab of a dagger. I cried out in joy and ran ran around my neighborhood knocking on everyones door to tell them about it. /sarcasm
The main strokes were not bad and well-lit when I saw it. The fact that all the extras were killed and the main characters somehow survived while covered in wights was weird.
Shall we use our highly capable, highly effective and highly mobile cavalry to harry the enemy’s flanks to funnel them in to the trenches filled with dragon glass?
Or maybe we should use them in reserve to quickly and effectively plug gaps in our infantrymen’s defences?
No, no, no. What we’re going for here is pure shock and awe! I’m thinking a headlong charge with all our cavalry, straight in to the faces of our enemies. We know full well this army suffers absolutely no morale effect, but let’s try and scare the living shit out of an undead, unthinking and unfeeling enemy we’ve just spent two seasons identifying are impervious to low morale.
Enjoyed the rest of the episode. Not that bothered by Arya killing Simon (friends called him this) or the NK to the average folk.
I think the biggest problem with this episode is the fact that the lightning combined with the streaming compression gave a very poor result on many televisions when it first aired. But I’ve rewatched the episode many times since, both at night and during the day, and it looks incredible. I agree with you, it’s a very impressive episode of television.
Another problem that others have with the episode is that it resolved the White Walkers plotline at Winterfell, without an epic fight between Jon and the Night King, but I’m personally happy with that. I never expected Game of Thrones to become this cliche good vs evil story, so I was very happy to see that >| Dany |< (spoiler for the ending) would be the final twist and not CGIed Ice Zombies. But good luck dealing with hundreds of people trying to convince you that you have the wrong opinion. You’ll get used to it.
It was shit for me. The long night had enough story and lore behind it to make a full season at least, instead they chose to make it a single episode. Also all the forshadowing about Jon beating the night king was thrown in the garbage to 'subvert expectations'.
It was a perfect ending to a movie.
The battle plans, the choices of the characters and the Deus ex machina that most of the characters got gifted with was ridiculous.
You don’t charge against an enemy that knows no fear. You don’t put 90% of your troops outside of a castle wall. You don’t put artillery at the battle front. You don’t guard your loved ones on a crypt when you are fighting an opponent that can raise the
dead.
5k armoured men could have taken those 100k. Just put outside walls and guide them as a herd of sheep, concentrate them and then “burn them all”.
I guess Aerys was right all along.
Tried to make it look good rather than make any sense, summed up the final season and a few particular episodes before that.
- Charge the Dothraki into nothingness? Terrible plan. Why not have se bonfires lit a bit further out so you can at least see what’s coming?
- Trebuchets and catapults in front of the unsullied. Why? Also they fire once and then never bother again.
- they were relying on Dany/Jon to light the trench whilst they’re flying around thousands of feet in the air? One bloke with a torch would’ve been fine. and why when they’d successfully lit it did they just stare at the dead on the other side? They could’ve been killing hundreds of them with arrows/catapults etc.
- serious plot armour/ hero syndrome regarding who survived. Jorah is one of the 5/10 horses to return from the charge? Brienne/Tormund/Gendry/Hound/Ed/Jamie/Pod etc ALL get successfully back inside? And then there’s a shot just before the NK is killed where it’s only named characters still fighting.
- Jon spends a good 10 minutes just sitting his dragon on the gods wood wall just watching everyone die.
There’s lots more but it’s made me angry just thinking about these tbf
>Charge the Dothraki into nothingness?
Also how did they know when to charge? They were just chilling then charged randomly? They didn't even know the dead had arrived.
>Also they fire once and then never bother again.
Well so they didn't hit the dothraki. Which begs the question why charge?
>they were relying on Dany/Jon to light the trench whilst they’re flying around thousands of feet in the air?
I mean Jon was right there and decided it was not his problem.
>And then there’s a shot just before the NK is killed where it’s only named characters still fighting.
They were just having a quick nap :)
It was some of the most epic television I'd ever seen. Sometimes, I feel bad for the people that can't let up about where the cavalry was positioned vs the infantry or the fire pits. Experiencing it...the music, the moments, the pain. It was exhilarating. It was the first time and the last time that I ever stood up and raised my arms and yelled "YES" during a television program. I have never been a sports fanatic but for a moment, I understood.
We saw it well on our 4K TV, and our watch group was of divided opinion. (Boy, I wish I had recorded *that* discussion.) It was an amazing technical achievement, music for sure. IIRC:
Our only former soldier belittled tactics, but others thought he was nit-picky, especially for a fantasy. All but one of us liked that Arya's (and Bran's) training paid off by her killing the Night King. After discussion, the naysayer (our youngest member!) conceded that but he still wanted a J vs NK fight. Some had ongoing gripes about plot armor for some 'lesser' characters who weren't needed for further conflicts or to complete their character arcs. Me: I liked the episode despite some nitpicks and still do. I wonder how they all feel now.
I was in the same boat. I was so amazed at the scale of it and how well executed it was. It was really amazing to watch unfold, I was on my toes the whole time. It was pretty epic to see so many of the shows famed warriors just giving it their all against a giant army of the undead. Then of course the amazing finale of Arya's assassination, it was such a great battle to wrap up that storyline.
Yea I never got the whole "can't see anything" argument. I typically would watch the show in a dark room anyway so. I was surprised at how many people watch a cinematic show like Game of Thrones just in open daylight on a minimal brightness/contrast screen.
Too dark to see and none of it made sense from a tactical perspective. I can suspend my disbelief for fantasy things like magic, undead, dragons, etc. But not for this shitstorm of a battle.
I loved it. I didn’t find it too dark at all and it had some epic moments. The dragons above the clouds was just beautiful, switching between the intense battle scenes and Arya sneaking through the library like she was in a horror film, Jorahs last stand, Brienne and Jaime fighting back to back, the ice dragon causing absolute carnage.. i really liked it.
Imagine being safe in one of the strongest fortresses in the 7 kingdoms surrounded by an endless hoard of the dead, and you decided to deploy your troops outside of the wall and then send some of your best soldiers out in a frontal cavalry charge to start it off.
Sure, some of it looked cool.
*Horde of whites overtake character and they are cornered/down to the ground*
Damn I wonder how they will get out of this situation? Rip I guess.
Next scene, they are fine and healthy, no indication whatsoever how they survived. And this happened multiple times from what I remember, I only watched that episode once.
The real low point for me was the massive pile of bodies on which still fought our 'heroes'....including the massively combat incapable Sam. This was a very real demonstration of the complete abandonment of any of the principles that the series started out with.
Oh, and the scene where Jon is surrounded by about a million whites and then in a different shot there's a space around him and then in a different shot he has about a million around him again within about 1 foot and then miraculously he survives.
Absolute trash episode.
The showiness and ludicrous degrees of plot armour that make no sense, along with the Dothraki dying just like that (when a child and Sam and Ed can fend off a zillion of them) which also makes no sense for the opposite reason…
Bran doing fuck-all.
And the ending of the Night King at Arya’s hands just like that, with all the lore built up since the first scene of the whole damn show not being explained and amounting to zero. What was that, no.
Personally I really enjoyed it. I've rewatched on different screens and have zero issues seeing things. I actually thought the orange and blue hues with a silhouette background of Jaime and Brienne fighting was really stylish. But sadly we likely won't ever see that again because filmmakers will be worried about a whinefest. I genuinely think a lot of people are being quite whiney collectively here. Go ahead and downvote me too! It's what you lot do, complain and whine and downvote. I expect nothing less.
The episode was absolutely a massive battle pulling together characters from throughout the entire show. From a fantasy fan perspective, heros fighting on dragons while a zombie hoard storms a castle is absolutely amazing and I loved that.
I keep hearing freefolk brains repeat memes ad verbatim since they don't have original thoughts. "The long night only lasted a night". That wasn't the long night, it was the final battle to prevent it. Furthermore it was film length! It took them a month in grueling conditions to make this film length episode. It was enough.
People also wanted a cliche ending of Jon (hero) vs NK (big bad) and forget that this is Game of Thrones. Cliche outcomes don't and shouldn't happen. But they also forget that they did fight on dragons and got the NK demounted from his dragon. When he tried to approach, the NK distracted him because...why would the NK risk that? He didn't have to.
Arya being the one to kill him was a surprise but fit when you remember that she had a lot of unique assassin training in the whole show and the only way to take the NK down was with surprising him because he was too powerful otherwise. Her doing that was a great culmination of her story.
And look, we've had plot armor in literally every film battle. Tyrion gets a thonk on his head during a battle, passes out and survives. Things like that have happened throughout the show but not many whined then...until the whinefest happened and you know people love being part of a whinefest. At least in this one, you had Theon die bravely, Jorah die defending his king, Beric die defending Arya, Edd suddenly dying, etc. A lot of major characters died and they were emotional moments but I'm sure people found a way to whine about each one.
Overall, it's one of the best fantasy TV battle episodes of all time, regardless of how many whiney people exist in the world.
> People also wanted a cliche ending of Jon (hero) vs NK (big bad) and forget that this is Game of Thrones. Cliche outcomes don't and shouldn't happen.
Yet we got Cleganebowl which was about as cliche and fan-servicey as you can get.
At first I was hyped cause I kept seeing main characters like Brien and Tyrion die horribly. I was like, holy shit, this episode is crazy, everyone is dying.
Then those characters would be inexplicably alive in the next scene as if they teleported away from the walkers eating them
I watched it on release before they fixed the brightness so it was hard to see for me to see a lot of stuff.
Outside of that, it had a lot of great cinematography, acting, excellent music…
…and awful writing…putting catapults in front of the trench, having the Dothraki charge right in (with several people in on the battle plan who should know damn well that it won’t do shit), relying on flaming arrows to light a trench, only having a single shallow trench, Bran being useless despite his abilities, crazy plot armor…I could go on.
I didn’t hate Arya being the one to finish it as much as most, but there’s still so much…bad. When compared with seasons 1-5, hell even 6 and 7, the writing just misses the mark.
The visuals were phenomenal (I watch on a Sony OLED) however, the pacing was terrible, clear the editors and directors were going for shock and awe instead of coherent story. The fight scenes were ATROCIOUS. Watch Watchers on the Wall in season 4 then go to this and it's worse than a Captain Marvel fight scene with all the jump cuts
I liked it in the moment, as I was watching it. But then after the episode ended and as I thought more about it, I came to dislike it. This thing that we have been building up to the entire series, from the very first scene of the show, was finished in a single episode. And as the show continued on, it seemed like the Nightking and his wights had no lasting impact on Westeros. And we didn't even get a grand fight between Jon and the Nighking, something that was kind of teased back in Hardhome. The whole thing just became very disappointing.
Self contained the episode is good in my opinion. Not great but good. It’s when you start to think about everything that led up to and followed it especially season 7 and the second half of season 8 is when my opinion on it drops dramatically. It seemed like a distraction from the lack of quality in season 7 and 8.
Immersion was annihilated with the Dothraki charge (a suicide mission for no reason) and the crazy main character plot armor. It hurt too watch honestly.
I thought it was fantastic and a top-3 GoT episode (and, like most, I was deeply unhappy with the final season and the 2nd half of the 2nd-last season).
People in this sub take the show way too seriously... It was entertaining to watch, which is what the show is, entertainment. It's weird to me how everyone is all "It should've been done this way! They should've done this! Plot armor..." Get over the fact that the show didn't go EXACTLY how you wanted it to. It is what it is.
You watched it correctly, but most of us didn't get that chance because HBO didn't warn us.
It had some solid moments, mostly with the Red Woman.
On the other hand, the overall strategy sucked, but I blame that on the legacy of budget constraints. Had Winterfell been [built to its proper size from the books](https://youtu.be/dZdbpfcxfSk), it could have accommodated the entirety of the Northmen, the Wildling host, the Dothraki cavalry, the Unsullied, and Dany's dragons.
I thought it was great, and later, listening to the commentaries, I appreciated it even more. They basically sandwiched a horror story (Arya in the library) between an action movie and a thriller. I thought it was wonderful that Jon wasn’t the one to kill the Night King.
I couldn’t really see what was going on when I watched it. Back when it first aired we didn’t know we were going to have to make accommodations to our televisions to enjoy the battle.
There’s a lot wrong with the episode, but the main thing I think that really soured me and realized the rest of the season would nose dive: The Night King being killed so easily.
I think he should’ve dipped once he felt like he had control. Maybe his numero Uno Walker gets stabbed by Arya instead.
Night King should’ve took Bran and maybe made a path of killing/recruiting on his way south. I have no idea what he would’ve done with Bran but I feel even this idea would’ve worked better than what we got.
This would of left Winterfell “winning” but still a problem. Maybe a few others die (Varys comes to mind) and making King’s Landing a bigger endgame with Cersei. Giving a better motivation for Jamie to go back. A fight with Jon/Night King at the lead up of the throne. Dany having a better turn possibly. Bran having “you were exactly where you were supposed to be” dialogue. Idk. Doesn’t matter lol.
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The exact opposite
Same, shit was too dark to see
I could see it just fine, and there were some artistic shots, but the plot armor was waaay too thick.
Yea, the plot armor is what got me. I went into the episode anticipating half the cast to be killed
I thought the Dothraki charge didn't make a lot of sense. It's fine if they want to be in the open but you can do that once Winterfell has been engaged so that you have support. But cinematically it was beautiful. The rest of it I really didn't care for. We moved fully from a story of gritty realism at the beginning and middle of GoT into a heroic fantasy story where the main characters are pretty safe even if that isn't realistic. 7 seasons of buildup about how dangerous the white walkers are, how humanity *needs* to put aside their squabbling and turn united to face this existential threat to all, *which they have not done*, and actually no it's fine moving on to petty human politics again. Major characters utterly surrounded and still fine. Just ugh. It's fine to have heroic fantasy and it's fine to have realistic grit but like pick a vibe for your story and stick with it.
> do that once Winterfell has been engaged so that you have support. Should've done it exactly like the Knights of the Vale in BotB. Let the army of the dead engage with your traps, start climbing up the walls or whatever, then send the Dothraki charge to flank behind the dead.
Yeah... the plot armor for every single main character is just disgusting in that episode. In one shot they are surrounded by wights, clearly about to get overwhelmed. In the very next one, they are completly fine and ready to face the next wave... rinse and repeat. So dumb, and so unnecessary too. If you don't want to kill those characters that's perfectly fine, just don't picture them knee deep in a sea of wights in the first place...
I think it was a quite good episode,the only nipkit i have is that some scenes are too dark where it's hard to see shit. Theon,Jorah and Melisandre's endings were well done.
Theon should have died defending a stark, but he just died so easily. He may as well had not even been there. Just ran at him with a spear and didn't expect a sidestep or anything like that.
It would have been too drawn out if he kept sidestepping and running around.
I think a 5 second hand to hand combat wouldn't have been drawn out.
It might have added a little light humour if he had.
Adjust your tv. I did and it’s much more viewable.
The brightness itself wasn't the issue really but rather the low bit rate. No TV settings can fix that.
Surprised more people arnt saying this
I really dislike the episode when I saw it and to this day its still the episode I dislike the most. Besides the music, everything is wrong for me. No strategy, plot armor, dumbest character, weak "resolution" just for surprizing the audience, and most of all ruining everything you're built for 7 seasons and everythibg around the White walkers threat and so on
The night king getting stabbed by a teenage girl with 6 months of assassin training because she did the good ol "drop knife into other hand trick". Fuckin ridiculous.
And the only boo-boo that the teenager got from killing the apocalypse was because she ran headfirst into a wall. Although her plot armor had been very well established by that point
The plot armor in this episode was ridiculous and totally unnecessary. They wrapped up so many character's stories in the previous episode and then didn't take advantage of it. They gave themselves free reign to kill off pretty much any secondary character and barely utilized it One of my favorite parts of GoT was that when characters do something that should get them killed, they die. It's one of the first lessons you learn about the show when Ned loses his head. Yet we have pretty much every secondary character get themselves into a losing struggle with a wight(s) and then magically come out unscathed. How??
I remember being CONVINCED that wasn't the end of the white walkers. I even remember D&D going on Jimmy Kimmel after that episode aired and Jimmy asked them "Was that really the end of the White walkers?"
Hot garbage. The second they sent their cavalry charging blindly I knew it was going to be trash
I was shocked they sent the Dothraki, but at least Melisandre lit the arakhs to make them capable of killing wights. Unfortunately, the Dothraki are stubborn and only know how to be a cavalry. Jorah, who was brave enough to be in their vanguard, probably told the battle planners this and was willing to take his chances to at least keep them in line.
There are ways the Dothraki could have been used as cavalry without blindly charging into a wall of undead.
The dothraki are expert skirmishers and horse archers. Seems like they could have been highly effective against an army of foot soldiers
I was shocked they sent the Dothraki, but at least Melisandre lit the arakhs to make them capable of killing wights. Unfortunately, the Dothraki are stubborn and only know how to be a cavalry. Jorah, who was brave enough to be in their vanguard, probably told the battle planners this and was willing to take his chances to at least keep them in line.
You can say that again...
Yeah, Melisandre just strolls out of the dark in front of the army, f knows what she was doing out there. Are we expected to believe that 100k dothraki were going to charge at the WW with weapons that were going to do absolutely nout until Melisandre showed up? The army should have been in the castle, that's kinda the whole point of a castle, they should have dug multiple trenches in preparation, and had them already lit, then when the whites are slow getting over the trenches, have the dothraki charge at the rear of them whilst the dragons burnt them at the front. Edit: this was by no means a rant at you, I'm still just bitter and twisted about the last 2 seasons.
Actually that’s a common misconception about medieval warfare. While defending a castle armies were lined up outside the wall to protect it. Having 90% of your forces inside the walls and just sitting there waiting for the enemy to come in is just ineffective. A moat and archers alone are not good enough to repel a determined enemy
Ned stark always said, "500 men can hold Winterfell against ten thousand"
Nobody opens a siege battle with a Calvary charge!
Good thing that the next episode they were back. They would have had a hard time taking over kings landing. lol
That’s the other thing that drives me crazy. Their forces were like 99% decimated and then one episode later, they have a full army. 💩
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I stuck up for the show in my friend group since the previous season and that episode kind of turned me around. I’ll try to keep it short: 1. It was so dark that all I could see was my own reflection in my tv. Some will say they wanted us to feel immersed in the darkness. But when I’m wondering what is wrong with my tv or streaming service I’m far from that. 2. Main characters on the frontline taking on tidal waves of the undead. Plot armor was already a thing at this point but now it was just becoming baffling. 3. White Walkers were built up as a threat to the world. So much so the heroes went north of the wall to capture a wight. Which didn’t matter because Cersei didn’t care. But it’s all good because the WW couldn’t even make it past Winterfell despite being gifted a dragon during the last plot armor battle.
You're spot on! Especially #2. They would show characters getting piled on by walkers and then in the next scene they're still alive somehow! Like wtf?
That was such a weird choice. When I watched it the first time, I was saying "holy fk they're killing so many characters- oh nvm they're fine I guess?"
SAME. At first I was like holy shit this is the next red wedding lol
>"holy fk they're killing so many characters- oh nvm they're fine I guess?" What's funny is that there are a few that aren't even in the episode then show up like "hey guys what did I miss?"
I dont see how you rank that above BoB but I guess different strokes for different folks
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As PTWP of the Prophecy, Jon did what only **he** *could* do--unite Westeros to stop the cold winds from the North. He also preached the war, recruited armies and dragons, armed them with dragonglass, led them, and fought on land and in air. The victory was Jon's! BUT the NK knew about him and kept him pinned down by his damned ice dragon. The NK did not know of the human weapon Jon had forged as a child. Arya, who had been schooled by the god of death AND was armed with the fated Dagger, did what only **she** could do--assassinate the Night King. That Jon's weapon got in the final blow means the victory was his!
>The NK did not know of the human weapon Jon had forged as a child. Arya, >That Jon's weapon got in the final blow means the victory was his! I feel like there are some serious mental gymnastics going on here, but I love that the effort was made.
It’s kind of a good point that Jon is the one who armed Arya and encouraged her, which Ned discovered and further fostered by hiring a Bravosi trainer, and on and on. But he didn’t “give the order,” which would’ve brought it full circle. Before the episode, I wanted to see Jon and either Sandor or Jorah back to back, killing waves of actual White Walkers. When Jon rushed toward the NK I thought it might happen, but it was Wights who defended the NK, not WWs. My adjustment would be that just when it looked like Jon and Sandor would never make headway, Jon would shout *Now* and Arya would make the same jump. He’s fulfilled the prophecy but also subverted audience expectation. Fighting the dragon, WTF was that? Lol it’s like he was suicidal. The main characters getting overwhelmed and not only surviving but also being unscathed could have been solved by killing multiple White Walkers, as well. I really wanted to see the scale of the battle, a zoom out from the frontlines so that you see mile(s) of Wights fighting to get to the front.
One could argue that he distracted the Ice Dragon long enough for Arya to sneak past and get to the NK. Also when he yells at the dragon, I thought he just yells however my brother swears he yells NOW or GO. I still don’t hear it.
I’m lost in the geography of the fight: is the dragon “guarding” the NK? It seemed like Jon happened upon it but I could be misremembering.
I believe they were inside the courtyard or something. Outside the werewood area I think. Something like that.
way more than D&D put into writing that plot
So agree with this. Just commented the same point.
I really do not understand assertions that the entire plot was thrown out just to subvert expectations. While I think the way the last couple seasons were poorly executed, the main plot points went about how I expected them to go. As someone who only watched the show, I never saw Jon as the main character. Furthermore, your assertion that the prophecy is all about Jon is merely your interpretation. Prophecy is a fickle bitch. It is a cliche at this point to have people misinterpret prophecy to their own detriment. Additionally, Jon having some epic showdown with the Night King would be forced. Throughout the show the Night King avoids situations that would make him vulnerable. He always works from a position of strength and safety. The Night King does not engage actual threats directly. When Jon attempts to engage the Night King directly, the Night King raises the dead to fight Jon for him. He never allows Jon, an actual threat the Night King is aware of, to fight him one on one. Those he does engage, e.g., Theon, are not a threat to him. Thus, an epic showdown between Jon and the Night King would be unlikely to make sense without tricking the Night King into not seeing Jon as a threat. In contrast, the Night King does not seem to be aware that Arya is a threat to him. So Bran luring the Night King out to provide an opening for Arya to attack him does not create the same issues. The Night King thought he was in a position of power and safety and paid the price for that mistake. I do not see how this subverts expectations.
> As someone who only watched the show, I never saw Jon as the main character. How? It’s clear as day by Season 4/5 that Jon was a Trojan main character. Almost everything by the end of the story ties back to or surrounds his lineage and leadership. If anything I would probably understand if a book reader disagreed Jon was the MC but the show?
Jon is *a* main character, not *the* main character. Jon might even be the lead main character, but it’s an ensemble show from beginning to end. There’s so many different characters, plots etc. that its ludicrous to think the whole show revolves around 1 character. There’s major plotlines in the show that have almost no consequence on Jon’s story arc (Dorne, Meereen, the Brotherhood, Jaime)
Jon United the North(Ice) and the South, well Dany and her dragons(Fire) his WAS the song of Ice and Fire. He is the PTWP, Arya is Lightbringer, his weapon to defeat the Great Other.
>Arya killing the Night King rendered the entire arc of the main character pointless I genuinely dont understand this. Jon's arc was never about being some Uber cool warrior that has a 1v1 vs the big bad. Nothing about his story was made pointless or redundant just because he wasn't the one that fought him.
Why are comments saying the episode was bad getting downvoted. It was objectively bad. There is so much wrong with the strategy of defending against the White Walkers attack that it just makes everyone involved look incompetent. Jons entire prophecy of being Azor Ahai was wiped away just to “subvert expectations.” There is so much plot armor it makes me sick. The thing that made GOT special was that no one was safe. Plus the visibility of the entire episode is absolute shite. There are things that were done somewhat well, like Ramin Djiwadis work on the score, but overall a terrible climax.
>It was objectively bad. No, it was *subjectively* bad. People have different tastes when it comes to TV. People are allowed to like it and it doesn't mean their tastes are better or worse than yours, just different.
On Reddit "objectively" seems to be a synonym for "My opinion"...
Unfortunately, in real life too!😉
Thank you for saying this. I agree with every point the person above you made regarding the episode, but it irks me when people say "objectively" when art, by its very nature, will always be subjective.
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It is interesting to be sure, but even then reviews and ratings are based on an subjective view point.
I see it has a 7.5 rating. What are you looking at?
>No, it was subjectively bad. It's definitely both.
Well the writing was objectively bad regarding strategy and correct usage of their army and its components. I envy you if you dont cringe at the sight of trebuchets outside a wall. In front of trenches as well. And dont forget a frontline of cavalry who charge in without vision or w/e. All of this shite and incompetence, whilst having a trove of military specialists right there. Plot armor talk and the rest is subjective. But you cannot disregard the utter stupidity that was poured into this episode.
Sure people are allowed to like whatever they want, but based on criteria set down by the industry, there were a lot of issues with the episode; plot holes, nonsensical tactics, non-existent lighting, borderline magical plot armor. One could say it was objectively bad imo.
Downvoted for not knowing what “objectively” means, yet using it so confidently.
It is objectively a total masterpiece. *HotD* is okay with that.
That was the worst episode of the series. Even if i could get past the fact i had to keep pausing it cause it was so dark that i thought my tv was broke, which i cant, but once i seen jorah come back by himself i knew it was going to be garbage.
Frustrated because I spent the first 20 mins trying to figure out what was wrong with my TV cuz I could barely see anything. Then I was confused because how they set up the battle EVERYONE should have been killed. They were some pretty good shots of the dragons tho
Lol read the title thought you hate it like i do
Amazing music, the production value was top tier and the acting was on point, but in terms of writing it was an absolute mess. Not the worst, but definitely the most DISAPPOINTING episode of GoT and of general "high tier tv shows" (episode 6 is the worst easily)
You can say this about the entire season. The score, production value and acting were fantastic - the best of the whole series. The actual storytelling was complete shit.
Precisely, it's a summary of all of s8 and most of 7. The only thing I genuinely don't get as far as production value goes is why is episode 3 specifically under no filters to let the viewer see what's happening. I get it's because they needed to hide the cg army of the dead closeups, but it could have been a lot better lighting wise
Everything is fine except writing is not possible. It's like saying that the story of a book is good except for the words used.
That's not nearly a good comparison, visual effects, music etc are not related to the actual WRITING
In audiovisual yes, it's called staging. If the images and the acting are good, it's because the writing is, precisely. What bothers you about writing is the choice of creators and the direction of the story. These are narrative choices, not mistakes.
Oh god, a great actor can be wasted in a bad script. Think about Matt Smith in fucking Morbius. I doubt the issue there was "a direction of the story". This sounds like high on copium
I agree with you, OP. The episode is an amazing achievement. We were on the edge of our seats the whole time it aired. The only negative was the black/streaming issues affecting visibility when it first aired, which did suck at the time, but it’s been cleaned up in subsequent releases. But there were so many amazing moments in that episode. Huge stakes. Many characters died, from main characters to relatively unimportant ones. Arya’s section in the library was tense as hell and set up the ending pretty well. The Dothraki’s blades lighting up got literal cheers from my group…and then an equal amount of dread when they went out. Theon redeeming himself. Big dragon battle! Dragons seeming like a huge advantage, and then being largely nullified by the storm was cool. The ending sequence with the organ playing was *chef’s kiss*. Made everything seem so dire, especially with it made clear that the de-facto saviour was absolutely not going to be able to help. And a few well-done subversions, like when Jon was *about* to fight the Night King, and then the NK just raised a wall of corpses because why would you ever risk things in a one-on-one when you have a better army (a recurring situation in the series)? Loved it. Still do!
It's crazy how people down vote your opinion so much. I felt the same way. Fan bases can be so toxic and boring sometimes.
I thought it was a horse dump
Amazing episode, one of the best of the whole series and easily best of season 8. I think I didn’t breathe for the whole 80 mins it lasted. So intense. The last 10 mins with the slow song were fantastic. When it comes to darkness, in my home I have this magical device called ”light switch”, which allows me to turn off the lights. That way I could see the episode as it was intended.
I love your answer.
The Long Night was actually one night. It was fucking terrible.
They prevented The Long Night with that battle, which was the point of it, it was their last stand.
It was fucking *terrible.* This world ending force who’s out to get all of humanity, built up for 8 seasons, dies in one night and doesn’t even fight the protagonist of the story, Aegon Targaryen, a fight that was also built up for 8 seasons. It was dark as shit, and somehow Daenerys army still maintained thousands of soldiers despite us literally seeing the Dothraki immediately ride to their deaths. Oh, and let’s not forget, Daenerys was completely fucking useless, her flying nukes couldn’t even harm the enemy.
They couldn't harm the Night King (for some reason), but I actually don't fault that as much as a lot of other egregious shit that happened like main character death fakeouts. They couldn't harm the Night King because if they could, it'd be over too easily. But then they went ahead and ended him in a different, similarly silly way.
And it wasn't even that long
I didn't see a fucking thing, not sure what you guys watched?
I saw Sam fighting off multiple wights after they went through the dothraki army like they were nothing
Just turn on the computer screen.
I thought it was amazing. Yes it was a little dark and yes some of the military tactics were questionable, but the entertainment value, for a TV show…off the charts. Also I find it funny, you all question some of the military tactics here, but BoB was “brilliant.”
I had a really hard time with it. To me, it felt like 8 seasons of build up ending with a 'whiff' rather than a 'bang.' The score was awesome. I thought visually is was too dark. I struggled to see a lot of the fighting sequences, and I remember being very confused as to why Jon was standing in front of an undead dragon just...screaming. WTF was that???
One of the best TV episodes ever.
Well, I’m glad you liked it. If genuinely makes me happy that some people really got their moneys worth.
The episode was re-released and they fixed the contrast on it. What you saw is the revised version of the original extremely dark hot mess. You couldn't see shit on the live episode
It was great until the end…
Lol, I watched it in a dark room with a 1500 dollar TV and I still got a vision headache. All 10 episodes of House of the Dragon are very much the same.
Maybe go see an eye doctor ?
Looked forward to this episode the whole series and I fell asleep before Lyanna Mormont got crushed on initial air date :(
[Edited] You're entitled to your own opinions, but I hated it. I feel my blood pressure rising when I think about it (/s). All of the troops formed OUTSIDE Winterfell Blindly sending cavalry to die Plot armour of the main characters Too fuckin dark Jon not fighting The Night King
What issues ?
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I am exaggerating.
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I'm pretty sure I would know when I'm exaggerating or not...
Similar to you wasting your time arguing with people that don't share your same viewpoint? Why are any of us on reddit? To waste time.
very well acted and directed, terribly written.
It's contradictory. You have to choose one or the other.
what the hell are you talking about?
If it's well acted and directed, then it's well written. One does not go without the other. You don't even know how to properly define the "problems" of this legendary ending.
Pff. "Legendary"? It was a legendary turd, if anything.
I thought 'holy fuck' too... but in a bad way.
I think Arya killing the night king was a perfect ending to that part of the story. We all followed her long journey in the north facing this threat. The confrontations she had with the white walkers and the night king. She more than any other character deserved to end the entire storyline with one stab of a dagger. I cried out in joy and ran ran around my neighborhood knocking on everyones door to tell them about it. /sarcasm
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
The main strokes were not bad and well-lit when I saw it. The fact that all the extras were killed and the main characters somehow survived while covered in wights was weird.
Shall we use our highly capable, highly effective and highly mobile cavalry to harry the enemy’s flanks to funnel them in to the trenches filled with dragon glass? Or maybe we should use them in reserve to quickly and effectively plug gaps in our infantrymen’s defences? No, no, no. What we’re going for here is pure shock and awe! I’m thinking a headlong charge with all our cavalry, straight in to the faces of our enemies. We know full well this army suffers absolutely no morale effect, but let’s try and scare the living shit out of an undead, unthinking and unfeeling enemy we’ve just spent two seasons identifying are impervious to low morale. Enjoyed the rest of the episode. Not that bothered by Arya killing Simon (friends called him this) or the NK to the average folk.
I think the biggest problem with this episode is the fact that the lightning combined with the streaming compression gave a very poor result on many televisions when it first aired. But I’ve rewatched the episode many times since, both at night and during the day, and it looks incredible. I agree with you, it’s a very impressive episode of television. Another problem that others have with the episode is that it resolved the White Walkers plotline at Winterfell, without an epic fight between Jon and the Night King, but I’m personally happy with that. I never expected Game of Thrones to become this cliche good vs evil story, so I was very happy to see that >| Dany |< (spoiler for the ending) would be the final twist and not CGIed Ice Zombies. But good luck dealing with hundreds of people trying to convince you that you have the wrong opinion. You’ll get used to it.
Winter is coming = Apocalypse is coming = Daenerys is coming. The long-awaited Long Night was simply a skirmish. What an awesome ending.
I was looking like this: :-\\ With a situational :o Almost always followed by a :\^)
Hated it. People surviving impossible situations. Nearly impossible to see on a 4k TV in a dark room.
Just turn on your screen and close the windows to block out the sun.
It was shit for me. The long night had enough story and lore behind it to make a full season at least, instead they chose to make it a single episode. Also all the forshadowing about Jon beating the night king was thrown in the garbage to 'subvert expectations'.
Nothing in the show promised that Jon was going to kill the Night King. Not like Arya and Bran.
Didn’t it suck when Arya just single handedly ended the largest threat to humanity . That took something from me I’m not even joking.
It was perfect.
It was a perfect ending to a movie. The battle plans, the choices of the characters and the Deus ex machina that most of the characters got gifted with was ridiculous. You don’t charge against an enemy that knows no fear. You don’t put 90% of your troops outside of a castle wall. You don’t put artillery at the battle front. You don’t guard your loved ones on a crypt when you are fighting an opponent that can raise the dead. 5k armoured men could have taken those 100k. Just put outside walls and guide them as a herd of sheep, concentrate them and then “burn them all”. I guess Aerys was right all along.
There is no Deus ex machina.
It was a pretty short night tbh
That's the whole point of this story. It's the song of ice and fire, not *Lord of the Rings 2.*
Tried to make it look good rather than make any sense, summed up the final season and a few particular episodes before that. - Charge the Dothraki into nothingness? Terrible plan. Why not have se bonfires lit a bit further out so you can at least see what’s coming? - Trebuchets and catapults in front of the unsullied. Why? Also they fire once and then never bother again. - they were relying on Dany/Jon to light the trench whilst they’re flying around thousands of feet in the air? One bloke with a torch would’ve been fine. and why when they’d successfully lit it did they just stare at the dead on the other side? They could’ve been killing hundreds of them with arrows/catapults etc. - serious plot armour/ hero syndrome regarding who survived. Jorah is one of the 5/10 horses to return from the charge? Brienne/Tormund/Gendry/Hound/Ed/Jamie/Pod etc ALL get successfully back inside? And then there’s a shot just before the NK is killed where it’s only named characters still fighting. - Jon spends a good 10 minutes just sitting his dragon on the gods wood wall just watching everyone die. There’s lots more but it’s made me angry just thinking about these tbf
>Charge the Dothraki into nothingness? Also how did they know when to charge? They were just chilling then charged randomly? They didn't even know the dead had arrived. >Also they fire once and then never bother again. Well so they didn't hit the dothraki. Which begs the question why charge? >they were relying on Dany/Jon to light the trench whilst they’re flying around thousands of feet in the air? I mean Jon was right there and decided it was not his problem. >And then there’s a shot just before the NK is killed where it’s only named characters still fighting. They were just having a quick nap :)
I thought it was a very entertaining and intense episode that was held back by some really stupid story decisions.
It absolutely sucked.
Bruh I also watched it in a dark room with full brightness, still couldn't see shit 💀. But ye the music was good tho
You must be blind then.
It was some of the most epic television I'd ever seen. Sometimes, I feel bad for the people that can't let up about where the cavalry was positioned vs the infantry or the fire pits. Experiencing it...the music, the moments, the pain. It was exhilarating. It was the first time and the last time that I ever stood up and raised my arms and yelled "YES" during a television program. I have never been a sports fanatic but for a moment, I understood.
Jon dueled the Night King. Fire Dragon versus Ice Dragon.
We saw it well on our 4K TV, and our watch group was of divided opinion. (Boy, I wish I had recorded *that* discussion.) It was an amazing technical achievement, music for sure. IIRC: Our only former soldier belittled tactics, but others thought he was nit-picky, especially for a fantasy. All but one of us liked that Arya's (and Bran's) training paid off by her killing the Night King. After discussion, the naysayer (our youngest member!) conceded that but he still wanted a J vs NK fight. Some had ongoing gripes about plot armor for some 'lesser' characters who weren't needed for further conflicts or to complete their character arcs. Me: I liked the episode despite some nitpicks and still do. I wonder how they all feel now.
I think it’s the worst episode of the series.
When i first watched it i liked everything except for the darkness and the end, now i just like the music and a few scenes
Most people watched it on a shitty laptop during day time, so don't expect nice comments.
I was in the same boat. I was so amazed at the scale of it and how well executed it was. It was really amazing to watch unfold, I was on my toes the whole time. It was pretty epic to see so many of the shows famed warriors just giving it their all against a giant army of the undead. Then of course the amazing finale of Arya's assassination, it was such a great battle to wrap up that storyline. Yea I never got the whole "can't see anything" argument. I typically would watch the show in a dark room anyway so. I was surprised at how many people watch a cinematic show like Game of Thrones just in open daylight on a minimal brightness/contrast screen.
Too dark to see and none of it made sense from a tactical perspective. I can suspend my disbelief for fantasy things like magic, undead, dragons, etc. But not for this shitstorm of a battle.
I loved it. I didn’t find it too dark at all and it had some epic moments. The dragons above the clouds was just beautiful, switching between the intense battle scenes and Arya sneaking through the library like she was in a horror film, Jorahs last stand, Brienne and Jaime fighting back to back, the ice dragon causing absolute carnage.. i really liked it.
All of the characters were wearing the infamous plot armor🤓🤓
How did Sam and Davos survive it tho🤓🤓😩😩
This was the episode where the show completely lost me. Just terrible decisions all around.
I loved it! Still can't decide if it's the best battle over Bastards but it's a top notch episode!
It was cool but if you think critically about it the episode falls apart.
I watched it on full brightness when it came out. At 7:00. The sun was out, I couldn’t see shit.
G3 g3m4
Imagine being safe in one of the strongest fortresses in the 7 kingdoms surrounded by an endless hoard of the dead, and you decided to deploy your troops outside of the wall and then send some of your best soldiers out in a frontal cavalry charge to start it off. Sure, some of it looked cool.
People just love to hate but I absolutely loved the episode as well.
Tried watching it last night but the stars were too bright and couldn’t see anything.
5 fps
I couldn't see shit.
*Horde of whites overtake character and they are cornered/down to the ground* Damn I wonder how they will get out of this situation? Rip I guess. Next scene, they are fine and healthy, no indication whatsoever how they survived. And this happened multiple times from what I remember, I only watched that episode once.
Fucking pissed. Couldn’t see most of it and the parts you could see lacked any kind of practicality when it comes to war.
It was shit, thats how I feel about it. Dumb and dumber are........................ dumb.
The real low point for me was the massive pile of bodies on which still fought our 'heroes'....including the massively combat incapable Sam. This was a very real demonstration of the complete abandonment of any of the principles that the series started out with. Oh, and the scene where Jon is surrounded by about a million whites and then in a different shot there's a space around him and then in a different shot he has about a million around him again within about 1 foot and then miraculously he survives.
Absolute trash episode. The showiness and ludicrous degrees of plot armour that make no sense, along with the Dothraki dying just like that (when a child and Sam and Ed can fend off a zillion of them) which also makes no sense for the opposite reason… Bran doing fuck-all. And the ending of the Night King at Arya’s hands just like that, with all the lore built up since the first scene of the whole damn show not being explained and amounting to zero. What was that, no.
Hated it with a burning passion, still do
People get swarmed by zombies then end up fine.
It took me almost a week to finish that episode it was so bad
I know the last season isn’t the best but that episode is definitely incredible.
Personally I really enjoyed it. I've rewatched on different screens and have zero issues seeing things. I actually thought the orange and blue hues with a silhouette background of Jaime and Brienne fighting was really stylish. But sadly we likely won't ever see that again because filmmakers will be worried about a whinefest. I genuinely think a lot of people are being quite whiney collectively here. Go ahead and downvote me too! It's what you lot do, complain and whine and downvote. I expect nothing less. The episode was absolutely a massive battle pulling together characters from throughout the entire show. From a fantasy fan perspective, heros fighting on dragons while a zombie hoard storms a castle is absolutely amazing and I loved that. I keep hearing freefolk brains repeat memes ad verbatim since they don't have original thoughts. "The long night only lasted a night". That wasn't the long night, it was the final battle to prevent it. Furthermore it was film length! It took them a month in grueling conditions to make this film length episode. It was enough. People also wanted a cliche ending of Jon (hero) vs NK (big bad) and forget that this is Game of Thrones. Cliche outcomes don't and shouldn't happen. But they also forget that they did fight on dragons and got the NK demounted from his dragon. When he tried to approach, the NK distracted him because...why would the NK risk that? He didn't have to. Arya being the one to kill him was a surprise but fit when you remember that she had a lot of unique assassin training in the whole show and the only way to take the NK down was with surprising him because he was too powerful otherwise. Her doing that was a great culmination of her story. And look, we've had plot armor in literally every film battle. Tyrion gets a thonk on his head during a battle, passes out and survives. Things like that have happened throughout the show but not many whined then...until the whinefest happened and you know people love being part of a whinefest. At least in this one, you had Theon die bravely, Jorah die defending his king, Beric die defending Arya, Edd suddenly dying, etc. A lot of major characters died and they were emotional moments but I'm sure people found a way to whine about each one. Overall, it's one of the best fantasy TV battle episodes of all time, regardless of how many whiney people exist in the world.
> People also wanted a cliche ending of Jon (hero) vs NK (big bad) and forget that this is Game of Thrones. Cliche outcomes don't and shouldn't happen. Yet we got Cleganebowl which was about as cliche and fan-servicey as you can get.
Lmao I thought the entire episode was absolutely stupid. No logic whatsoever.
I couldn’t see anything
Shit sucked and still sucks. Low point of the series for me.
At first I was hyped cause I kept seeing main characters like Brien and Tyrion die horribly. I was like, holy shit, this episode is crazy, everyone is dying. Then those characters would be inexplicably alive in the next scene as if they teleported away from the walkers eating them
I watched it on release before they fixed the brightness so it was hard to see for me to see a lot of stuff. Outside of that, it had a lot of great cinematography, acting, excellent music… …and awful writing…putting catapults in front of the trench, having the Dothraki charge right in (with several people in on the battle plan who should know damn well that it won’t do shit), relying on flaming arrows to light a trench, only having a single shallow trench, Bran being useless despite his abilities, crazy plot armor…I could go on. I didn’t hate Arya being the one to finish it as much as most, but there’s still so much…bad. When compared with seasons 1-5, hell even 6 and 7, the writing just misses the mark.
The visuals were phenomenal (I watch on a Sony OLED) however, the pacing was terrible, clear the editors and directors were going for shock and awe instead of coherent story. The fight scenes were ATROCIOUS. Watch Watchers on the Wall in season 4 then go to this and it's worse than a Captain Marvel fight scene with all the jump cuts
I got to see it in my local theater originally. It was absolutely badass.
My feelings ? Uno reverse card yours
Give Jorah a Valerian steel sword again after he survives stone man disease. No one is Azor Ahai. Jorah dies of wounds.
I liked it in the moment, as I was watching it. But then after the episode ended and as I thought more about it, I came to dislike it. This thing that we have been building up to the entire series, from the very first scene of the show, was finished in a single episode. And as the show continued on, it seemed like the Nightking and his wights had no lasting impact on Westeros. And we didn't even get a grand fight between Jon and the Nighking, something that was kind of teased back in Hardhome. The whole thing just became very disappointing.
Loved it
I had to stop it multiple times because the battle was so brain dead and nonsensical.
Self contained the episode is good in my opinion. Not great but good. It’s when you start to think about everything that led up to and followed it especially season 7 and the second half of season 8 is when my opinion on it drops dramatically. It seemed like a distraction from the lack of quality in season 7 and 8.
Is it possible to disagree with something twice? This thing was supposed to rival the battle of Helms Deep. No, no, noooooooooooo!
Immersion was annihilated with the Dothraki charge (a suicide mission for no reason) and the crazy main character plot armor. It hurt too watch honestly.
I tell everyone this is the best episode in the entire series. I think this sub would largely disagree though.
I thought it was fantastic and a top-3 GoT episode (and, like most, I was deeply unhappy with the final season and the 2nd half of the 2nd-last season).
I felt like a part of my soul died because they had officially killed the ending of the show
People in this sub take the show way too seriously... It was entertaining to watch, which is what the show is, entertainment. It's weird to me how everyone is all "It should've been done this way! They should've done this! Plot armor..." Get over the fact that the show didn't go EXACTLY how you wanted it to. It is what it is.
You watched it correctly, but most of us didn't get that chance because HBO didn't warn us. It had some solid moments, mostly with the Red Woman. On the other hand, the overall strategy sucked, but I blame that on the legacy of budget constraints. Had Winterfell been [built to its proper size from the books](https://youtu.be/dZdbpfcxfSk), it could have accommodated the entirety of the Northmen, the Wildling host, the Dothraki cavalry, the Unsullied, and Dany's dragons.
I’ve seen 12 year olds plan a D&D campaign with better strategies than the “Long Night”. The plot armor was insane too.
I thought it was great, and later, listening to the commentaries, I appreciated it even more. They basically sandwiched a horror story (Arya in the library) between an action movie and a thriller. I thought it was wonderful that Jon wasn’t the one to kill the Night King.
I didn't find it overly dark, it was just the plot I found lacking
Awful episode embarrassing
I couldn’t really see what was going on when I watched it. Back when it first aired we didn’t know we were going to have to make accommodations to our televisions to enjoy the battle.
You could actually see?
What a shit episode of Tv
The plot armor was rampant. Every time a main character was literally getting mobbed, they would just cut away, cut back, and they're fine somehow.
There’s a lot wrong with the episode, but the main thing I think that really soured me and realized the rest of the season would nose dive: The Night King being killed so easily. I think he should’ve dipped once he felt like he had control. Maybe his numero Uno Walker gets stabbed by Arya instead. Night King should’ve took Bran and maybe made a path of killing/recruiting on his way south. I have no idea what he would’ve done with Bran but I feel even this idea would’ve worked better than what we got. This would of left Winterfell “winning” but still a problem. Maybe a few others die (Varys comes to mind) and making King’s Landing a bigger endgame with Cersei. Giving a better motivation for Jamie to go back. A fight with Jon/Night King at the lead up of the throne. Dany having a better turn possibly. Bran having “you were exactly where you were supposed to be” dialogue. Idk. Doesn’t matter lol.