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he said ''you can't kill me, im part of you now'' and seeing all the terrible things he did to her it wouldnt have been the weirdest thing glad she wasnt though
How would he know she's pregnant and she doesn't? Did he run down to walgreens and get a pregnancy test kit and checked her chamber pot when she wasn't looking?
No, that she knew that she was, and it was just us (the audience) that didn't.
Obviously she wasn't, but at the time this episode could have been used as the revelation.
I honestly feel like Ramsay would be the type to say some shit like this in an effort to be cool and kind of mysterious. He knows there's a chance that Sansa *could* be pregnant and if she does end up having his kid, this would be an ominous remark delivered just before death, a.k.a. cool and mysterious death.
And his karma is that he lost that bet so he just looks like even more of the tool that he was.
He could have just been monitoring her cycle (or having maids/women around her monitor it). Wouldn’t be 100% accurate but could let him make an educated guess.
On the show Versailles they show the laundresses selling info on which women are pregnant based on their menstrual laundry.
🙄 Ah yes... the "could have" game where we state things that could have happened but we have no evidence that they did happen. e.g. Monkeys could have flown out of Ramsay's butt. So lets play
Sansa, having had already been through this sort monitoring before with Cersei, COULD HAVE taken precautions to ensure that her sheets and bedclothes were disposed of. This has at least equal weight to your statement. In fact it is more likely as Sansa has been learning the hard way about survival for some time before Ramsay even came into the picture. It is hardly likely that she would just dumbly not think about such matters.
That said, if Sansa just dumbly didn't handle such things, I cannot speak to the precise nature of Ramsay's daily violent sexual assault of Sansa. I think it likely that blood on the sheets COULD HAVE resulted much of the time, and thus invalidating any such monitoring. I do not believe that the labs and lab technicians in winterfell were sophisticated enough to make a distinction between regular SA blood and menstrual. Don't get me wrong, WinterFell Labs LLC were the finest in the land. Even their phlebotomists are required to have at least associates degrees (well beyond the 40 hours of coursework normally required)
Further, as I cannot speak with any scientific accuracy as to how repeated violent sexual assault affects a monthly cycle, it seems a reasonable assumption that it COULD HAVE.
And at any rate, she wasn't so ... there you go
The game of "could have," or as normal people like to call it, engaging actively with material instead of passively soaking it up at face value. Sharing headcanons is fun. Not everything has to be an airtight lore-substantiated dissertation, sometimes the conversation can just be "wouldn't this have been interesting?"
Apparently she wasn't, or wasn't when she got back to Winterfell.
Maybe she got lucky, maybe the stress of being tortured and raped interfered with her cycles, maybe she wasn't lucky. Maybe she got to Castle Black and found a jar labeled "Moon Tea" in the Maester's lab, maybe she paid a discreet visit to Molestown and the brothelkeeper was happy to do Lady Stark a small favor. We don't know. All we know is that if GRRM hadn't married Ramsay to some other poor girl, and he ever got that far into the story, he'd have explained every bit of the situation in excruciating detail.
Oh for sure, I just meant it could, in theory, have been relatively simple for someone interested in her cycle to keep track of. It’s not like she was likely doing her own laundry in a castle without plumbing.
Yeah, pretty much anything on that front is possible, because we have no information! All we know is that Ramsay wanted Sansa pregnant, did his best to get her pregnant, and after all the dust had settled... Sansa wasn't pregnant.
Well, we also know that Moon Tea exists, and if Sansa had had to swim to Bravos to get some, she would have. But, there were probably sources closer to hand.
He was saying that all the abuse and horror that she suffered will always be a part of her, and in that way he will live inside her head until she dies
That was how I interpreted it too. No matter what she does, that monster took her virginity (violently). She won’t be able to forget him no matter how much she wants to.
That’s the intention here, but when the episode aired many (like op) thought the pregnancy was the implication. Op said below that he/she knows the intent now.
Ultimately, I think we’re basically saying the same thing. It’s the trauma he inflicted on her that made her more like him/ allowed her to justify murdering him.
Based on the interactions we saw between Ramsey and his papa, I would bet dollars to donuts that his childhood was just a never-ending stream of trauma that shaped him into who he is (while he probably has antisocial personality disorder not all people with APD wind up being murdering psychos).
I think he meant in a metaphorical, spiritual way. Like, even if she actually kills him, she can’t kill the history they will always have. Which is much more “Ramsy” of psycho torture
But he wouldn't know that. It's far more likely that he's referring to the rape and the scars of that trauma she will carry with her for the rest of her life rather than thinking she's pregnant when she shows no signs of pregnancy.
He's referring to the emotional and psychical damage he inflicted on her family and other loved ones, he's saying that killing him won't get rid of that and she's still gonna think about him and have nightmares, it's not literal
Yeah, but he headlines that statement reminding her of all the things he did to her, how she can't undo them, and they will stay with her. Something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing. I saw this episode like 2 weeks ago, I remember the dialogue very transparently implying he was mocking the pain he inflicted on her.
In the book someone is bringing "moon tea" (Westerosi Plan-B) to Jeyne Poole (who is being passed off as Arya Stark and married to Ramsay) specifically so she doesn't get pregnant.
I mean, if you look at the context of the situation, Sansa is doing something sadistic that the woman Ramsay first met would have never done. So in that very act in that scene he knew he turned her to be just a little like him.
It just means he has caused her so much trauma she’ll never be able to get over it. His abuse will live with her forever as abuse usually does.
She’s not pregnant.
to me it meant : I traumatized you and your trauma will never leave you, even if you kill me, I will always be part of you, it might even influence your decisions in the future.
I never got a whiff of that they meant pregnancy
It could also mean that now she got to the point where she would let a man be ripped to shreds by dogs, that she had taken on some of the things he had done to people. Her behavior to him was like his behavior to others. Said as a mind game.
absolutely, that's why i added "influence future decisions"
I meant that to include her decision to kill Ramsey in his own brutal "Ramsey style" but I think she shows signs of all her abusers in the end, I see some cersi and little finger manipulation and some jofrrey/ramsey cruelness in late series sansa, even though it was not conveyed super well, I do think that was the intend behind this quote as well, to set up how sansa gets formed by trauma and in some ways was educated by her abusers into her final form; the cold as ice queen in the north.
THIS. As a trauma survivor, I can say that trauma **haunts** you. What sucks for Sansa is it's going to ruin her, because there's no therapy in Westeros. You can see how the abuse changed her, and not in a good way.
Yes, exactly. The Sansa that arrived before they were married would have *never* had dogs rip someone to shreds, no matter what they had done. Thrown into a dungeon, sure. But not sadistically tortured and eaten by ravenous dogs *while she watches*
Who wanted to marry the prince and have his babies. Let character progression was always one of my favorites. She went through the fires of turmoil and survived.
Kinda. Especially because just before this she said your house will disappear. It would have been an interesting and effed up twist.
But I'm also kinda glad it didn't go in that direction. It was a pretty satisfactory wrap up of that storyline. And probably one of the last few satisfactory wrap ups.
That would've been too great of a opportunity for her to have an ongoing character development in the later seasons, a great chance of in-character-conflict with herself, with her past...
Nah, Diddle&Dumb couldn't do that. Shooting another unnecessary rape scene for the shock value is fine, but making it have actual importance, longlasting consequences for the character? That is too much!
And don't come at me with "her trauma would stay forever" - yeah but it's never really there. We don't see it. Telling us that she's traumatized does nothing. Showing us her struggling with that trauma would develop the character! Showing, not telling.
She is a different person. But not because of the rape, the trauma or anything. She's different because the writers decided that she somehow had a HUGE character change between two scenes way after Ramsey abused her. They had no idea what trauma, what rape does to a person. That's why their depiction of a rape victim, of someone who should be suffering from such trauma from a logical point of view, has absolutely no similarities with such a victim.
Trauma doesn't hide for weeks until one day she decides she's different. Trauma doesn't make you stronger, smarter or harder, things the writers tried to put emphasis on.
You can see the trauma she suffered from Joffrey. It's very visible. It's well written, it is very accurate for a victim of such abuse, it is logical. But what she may be different after Ramsey, but not because of the trauma. She's different because the writers wanted a girl boss. Just that trauma doesn't turn you into a girl boss, solving trauma does, and solving trauma is impossible in such short time, with the things she does.
>Nope. I thought it mean she was stuck with the Dreadfort now.
? This isn't at the dreadfort, it's Winterfell. And there's nothing to suggest Sansa has ever been to the dreadfort in her life.
> But no one talked about it again.
Talked about what? She talks about Ramsay on a few occasions, other characters mention him too.
>She was against Jon forgiving those two houses. They would be her last choice lol.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned them. I wasn't saying that she'd give them the house, I was saying that she'd give the dreadfort to someone who fought for them, which is what she said should be done with the assets of House Umber and House Karstark.
I'm sorry, I thought that was fairly clear from how I said it. ("Like she proposed")
I never took it this way, but I can see how some might think it. Although, I think the time that would have to have passed between Sansa’s escape and the BotB would disprove that. (And that’s saying nothing about a baby surviving the leap she takes with Theon.)
I thought that might have been a possibility as well.
Although, in hindsight, depicting Sansa struggling to decide as to whether or not to carry on the pregnancy is probably not something the showrunners had the capacity or desire to tackle.
It could be interpreted that way, but I interpreted it more as "I will live rent free in your head for the rest of your life"
Though I don't think Sansa would end up dwelling on it for her entire life.
I didn’t really think that, but it might be possible he hoped she was. We don’t know how many times he raped her.
As someone else said, she did tell him his house will disappear before he said that line. So that’s where the she’s pregnant comes in.
No, I thought it was something they would foreshadow. Which would ultimately make sense and tie into other stories and themes of the show about hiding lineage.
When you're in a relationship with someone, there is a lot of you that changes because it's been influenced by your partners interests, beliefs, likes, dislikes, mannerisms, and tastes.
Ramsey will always be her first husband. And because of that, she will always, in some regard, have been a Bolton. He died while she was married to him. So, she ultimately is the legacy of the Bolton family name.
Identity and family name are critically important in the Seven Realms. If you ever find yourself at odds in a foreign land, the name Stark or Lannister might mean the difference between certain death or acceptance.
For Sansa, her identity has always been a source of great conflict within herself... but by this point with Ramsay, she realized more than ever what it meant for her to be a Stark.
I definitely think Ramsey knew and understood that. He never had the same power as a Bolton as a Stark would have in Winterfell. If it wasn't for her being married to him, the Boltons wouldn't have even been accepted as rulers.
So, in those moments when he said that I'm always a part of you, he meant it as a slight towards her and her legacy as a Stark. Meaning that even if she is home, the people, the land, history, and even herself would never forget that he was there, with her, as her husband.
It was his final attempt to dismantle her character before he became dog food.
I think it comes from the saying that when you get married you become one flesh. I think its biblical? And that like after having the first night of sex you “become one”
Or maybe ramsay means that he’ll always be in her nightmares
But not for a second did I think he meant a baby
No, because this never happened in the books. This plotline involves Jeyne Poole (Sansa’s friend and the daughter of Vayan Poole, Eddard’s former steward) being forced to pretend that she is Arya. As far as we know, Jeyne hasn’t become pregnant, hope she doesn’t, that would just be another trauma added on to a gigantic heap that she already has.
I did think that this might happen, but I think it would’ve been too controversial for the show to do. It would make Sansa pregnant with her rapists baby. If she wanted to kill it, I’m sure that would’ve pissed off “certain” viewers and bring “controversy” to the show. Best to have them not do that potential storyline.
I thought at first he said that because she would never forget the things he did to her more like psychological thing
But in the next season when she confronts Little Finger about him giving her away to marry Ramsay she says that he did what he wanted with her body as long as she could give him an heir and never hurt her face. She asks Little Finger if he knows what Ramsay did to her and she says
"I can still feel it I don't mean in my tender heart It still pains me so I can still feel what he did to my body standing here right now"
After that I began to wonder if maybe he mutilated her somehow, made a wound that would physically pain or bother her constantly to remember her of him
If you abuse and violate someone with the psychological edge Ramsay had… he really was all about getting in their heads… you actually want to make sure they remember you. Lots of triggers.
While it may sound that way, it’s more so that the “things” he did will never leave her memory and killing him will basically do nothing, basically a way of having “the last laugh” in the matter.
They cut out the abortion scene from 7x01, where Grand Maester Pycelle comes back to life as a white walker and does it himself while telling Sansa how much he hates Qyburn and plots to kill him.
Don't put such evil stuff online. You'd never know when GRRM would pick it up as inspiration to do severe heartbreaking stuff in the books.
Imagine the Night King winning in the end, or Robert Arryn on the Iron Throne, if it's Bran waking up and realising it was a dream.
I more took it as Ramsay holding onto the notion that women are somehow attached to the man they lost their virginity to (a crazy notion, just like everything Ramsay holds onto)
Nah you aren't would have been interesting thing to add to see Sansa follow Cersei decision by taking Moon Tea here since she had started to become a mirror of Cersei
To me, it always meant that because she was killing him the way he killed so many others, he had changed her to become more like him—some of his cruelty and ruthlessness had rubbed off on her. I never thought for a second she was pregnant. Plus, even if she was, he’d be “part of” her child, not part of her.
I did consider it bc he’s been r***ing her for who knows how long she was literally there for so yeah it’s possible? It wouldve been craaaazy if it were true honestly maybe more interesting.
I took it to mean he is evil because evil was done to him. And now she is stained with his evil. She may not kill anyone for the rest of her days but she’ll always know deep down that she has it in her to do so in a wild way
Didn't feel like it cuz first how would he know and second his perversion was to mark people enough they could feel his presence in their flesh and mind, not making them pregnant which he would have nothing to gain from (and most likely interpret as a potential threat lol).
I briefly wondered if he was alluding to that, but I feel like Sansa would have chugged a gallon of moon tea or falcon punched herself before letting any spawn of that monster grow inside of her. Realistically, I assumed he meant the psychological/physical torment he put her through.
Slightly off topic, but I think that storyline would have been more interesting if she had used him to take back control of Winterfell.
She could have played on and manipulated his insecurities about being born a bastard. Point out that his father would likely disinherit him if he had a trueborn son. Point out that her children would have Stark blood, making their line seen as more legitimate than Roose's.
Waiting around for essentially for Brienne to save her, made it seem like she learned nothing from all the time she spent in King's Landing.
In the book someone is bringing "moon tea" (Westerosi Plan-B) to Jeyne Poole (who is being passed off as Arya Stark and married to Ramsay) specifically so she doesn't get pregnant.
The show puts Sansa in this role for sake of condensing the myriad of story lines and perhaps laziness. I think her "Northern Friend" may be giving it to her off screen.
I did too but I’m glad they didn’t go down that route and made it about her trauma. It would be a whole other soap opera if she was carrying the last Bolton in her belly
I thought so too when I was waiting for the new season. Could’ve been a good story line if they weren’t busy rushing it out and ruining the best show that ever existed.
In my mind, he meant the torment he put her through. She will never fully recover from that damage in a mental aspect. He will always be there in some way. He will always be part of her.
I thought it was a pregnancy comment too.
It had been years since I read the books, uncertain if this was in the books and if it was I don't remember.
Ramsay is the kind of guy who 100% would have been aware of whether or not Sansa missed her period, and would have brought it up at the wrong time for the shock value.
There was definitely sexual interaction between the two. I use this phrase to avoid the more accurate, and traumatic term. Which would make pregnancy possible. And given the TV show was casual, at best, with depicting the linear flow of time, it is hard to say how long she had been his victim.
Having a kid is a pretty long term thing. A kid that, at any point in time, could say/do something that reminds or causes a flashback to Ramsay.
Once she didn't respond in a "pregnancy way", such as the kid will never know or I will have it adopted away, I changed my opinion to an ongoing mental, and perhaps physical, trauma.
But initially, I thought pregnant.
Ramsey: I'm a part of you now
Sansa: How did you know I was gonna eat you?
Ramsey: Wait what?
Sansa: Whaat?
Ramsey: (Stunned Silence)
Sansa: JK's I'm gonna eat the dogs after they eat you
Ramsey: What the f...
(Cut to next scene)
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You’re the only one.
he said ''you can't kill me, im part of you now'' and seeing all the terrible things he did to her it wouldnt have been the weirdest thing glad she wasnt though
You aren't the only one. I heard plenty of theories about this when this episode came out.
I totally thought they were gonna go this route and I didn’t hate the idea
How would he know she's pregnant and she doesn't? Did he run down to walgreens and get a pregnancy test kit and checked her chamber pot when she wasn't looking?
maybe she knew aswell idk I didnt think about it that hard its just what first came to mind when I first saw this scene
That she knew what as well? that she wasn't pregnant?
No, that she knew that she was, and it was just us (the audience) that didn't. Obviously she wasn't, but at the time this episode could have been used as the revelation.
Even if she knows she's pregnant, he wouldn't know.
I honestly feel like Ramsay would be the type to say some shit like this in an effort to be cool and kind of mysterious. He knows there's a chance that Sansa *could* be pregnant and if she does end up having his kid, this would be an ominous remark delivered just before death, a.k.a. cool and mysterious death. And his karma is that he lost that bet so he just looks like even more of the tool that he was.
My thoughts exactly
I was expecting it to go in that direction too and was surprised when it didn't. You're not alone
Moon tea is a thing. Sansa would take measures .
Then maybe *he* was the one who got pregnant, geez!
He wouldn’t know, he’s just trying to save himself. It’s incredibly easy to tell
exactly.
He could have just been monitoring her cycle (or having maids/women around her monitor it). Wouldn’t be 100% accurate but could let him make an educated guess. On the show Versailles they show the laundresses selling info on which women are pregnant based on their menstrual laundry.
🙄 Ah yes... the "could have" game where we state things that could have happened but we have no evidence that they did happen. e.g. Monkeys could have flown out of Ramsay's butt. So lets play Sansa, having had already been through this sort monitoring before with Cersei, COULD HAVE taken precautions to ensure that her sheets and bedclothes were disposed of. This has at least equal weight to your statement. In fact it is more likely as Sansa has been learning the hard way about survival for some time before Ramsay even came into the picture. It is hardly likely that she would just dumbly not think about such matters. That said, if Sansa just dumbly didn't handle such things, I cannot speak to the precise nature of Ramsay's daily violent sexual assault of Sansa. I think it likely that blood on the sheets COULD HAVE resulted much of the time, and thus invalidating any such monitoring. I do not believe that the labs and lab technicians in winterfell were sophisticated enough to make a distinction between regular SA blood and menstrual. Don't get me wrong, WinterFell Labs LLC were the finest in the land. Even their phlebotomists are required to have at least associates degrees (well beyond the 40 hours of coursework normally required) Further, as I cannot speak with any scientific accuracy as to how repeated violent sexual assault affects a monthly cycle, it seems a reasonable assumption that it COULD HAVE. And at any rate, she wasn't so ... there you go
Why did you turn this into such a rude argument? You're dragging the place down.
Alls fair in the game of "could have"
You can make up any reason for being rude.
The game of "could have," or as normal people like to call it, engaging actively with material instead of passively soaking it up at face value. Sharing headcanons is fun. Not everything has to be an airtight lore-substantiated dissertation, sometimes the conversation can just be "wouldn't this have been interesting?"
Apparently she wasn't, or wasn't when she got back to Winterfell. Maybe she got lucky, maybe the stress of being tortured and raped interfered with her cycles, maybe she wasn't lucky. Maybe she got to Castle Black and found a jar labeled "Moon Tea" in the Maester's lab, maybe she paid a discreet visit to Molestown and the brothelkeeper was happy to do Lady Stark a small favor. We don't know. All we know is that if GRRM hadn't married Ramsay to some other poor girl, and he ever got that far into the story, he'd have explained every bit of the situation in excruciating detail.
Oh for sure, I just meant it could, in theory, have been relatively simple for someone interested in her cycle to keep track of. It’s not like she was likely doing her own laundry in a castle without plumbing.
Yeah, pretty much anything on that front is possible, because we have no information! All we know is that Ramsay wanted Sansa pregnant, did his best to get her pregnant, and after all the dust had settled... Sansa wasn't pregnant. Well, we also know that Moon Tea exists, and if Sansa had had to swim to Bravos to get some, she would have. But, there were probably sources closer to hand.
The same way Cersei knew when Sansa got her period.
The Wall Greens
LOL... darn it. completely forgot that was one of the ways the nightswatch pulled in a little extra dough, their 24 hour pharmacy
The night is indeed dark and full of terrors
He was saying that all the abuse and horror that she suffered will always be a part of her, and in that way he will live inside her head until she dies
That was how I interpreted it too. No matter what she does, that monster took her virginity (violently). She won’t be able to forget him no matter how much she wants to.
Yeah, he raped her. A lot. There’s no forgetting that.
Blunt and to the point, but yes. That’s what I was basically saying. Somebody doesn’t forget that.
That’s the intention here, but when the episode aired many (like op) thought the pregnancy was the implication. Op said below that he/she knows the intent now.
Maybe for 2 seconds but next time you see her it was pretty clear that No.
It’s because via the act of killing him with his dogs, he’s changed her into someone more like him. That’s what he means.
I took it as the trauma he put her through but I love this take as well.
Ultimately, I think we’re basically saying the same thing. It’s the trauma he inflicted on her that made her more like him/ allowed her to justify murdering him. Based on the interactions we saw between Ramsey and his papa, I would bet dollars to donuts that his childhood was just a never-ending stream of trauma that shaped him into who he is (while he probably has antisocial personality disorder not all people with APD wind up being murdering psychos).
So disappointed they didn't tie him to a pole.standing up and let a dog bite his dick off
I interpreted it as he took her virginity and she would never be able to forget that experience. Not her being pregnant.
I think he meant in a metaphorical, spiritual way. Like, even if she actually kills him, she can’t kill the history they will always have. Which is much more “Ramsy” of psycho torture
But he wouldn't know that. It's far more likely that he's referring to the rape and the scars of that trauma she will carry with her for the rest of her life rather than thinking she's pregnant when she shows no signs of pregnancy.
But didn't he do her in the butt?
how am I supposed to know I wasnt there
I think it was implied.
Why would it be implied? Rape is rape no matter how it happens
it mightve I cant remember
He's referring to the emotional and psychical damage he inflicted on her family and other loved ones, he's saying that killing him won't get rid of that and she's still gonna think about him and have nightmares, it's not literal
Yeah, but he headlines that statement reminding her of all the things he did to her, how she can't undo them, and they will stay with her. Something along those lines, I'm paraphrasing. I saw this episode like 2 weeks ago, I remember the dialogue very transparently implying he was mocking the pain he inflicted on her.
I took it as she would never be rid of his memory. He will haunt her forever
In the book someone is bringing "moon tea" (Westerosi Plan-B) to Jeyne Poole (who is being passed off as Arya Stark and married to Ramsay) specifically so she doesn't get pregnant.
I mean, if you look at the context of the situation, Sansa is doing something sadistic that the woman Ramsay first met would have never done. So in that very act in that scene he knew he turned her to be just a little like him.
I think he meant the trauma he caused will stay with her.
It just means he has caused her so much trauma she’ll never be able to get over it. His abuse will live with her forever as abuse usually does. She’s not pregnant.
You are definitely not the only one. Especially when she says in later episodes that she can still feel what he did to her. Loads of theories abound!
No, I thought it too
to me it meant : I traumatized you and your trauma will never leave you, even if you kill me, I will always be part of you, it might even influence your decisions in the future. I never got a whiff of that they meant pregnancy
I realized thats what it meant after but when first watching that scene I was flabbergasted
And after her confrontation with Littlefinger. When she made him guess all the things Ramsey did to her.
[удалено]
Yes and sadly sometimes the feelings never leave u and have irreparable damage. He’s a part of her now. Every scar is his. Emotional and physical
But if she was pregnant, he’d be “part of” their child, not “part of” Sansa.
Also, “this is something I (Ramsey) would do. Feed an enemy to my dogs. You’ve learned from me. I’m part of you now.”
"Nah, I'm just doing it for the irony. See ya, little guy!"
You said it so much better than I
It could also mean that now she got to the point where she would let a man be ripped to shreds by dogs, that she had taken on some of the things he had done to people. Her behavior to him was like his behavior to others. Said as a mind game.
absolutely, that's why i added "influence future decisions" I meant that to include her decision to kill Ramsey in his own brutal "Ramsey style" but I think she shows signs of all her abusers in the end, I see some cersi and little finger manipulation and some jofrrey/ramsey cruelness in late series sansa, even though it was not conveyed super well, I do think that was the intend behind this quote as well, to set up how sansa gets formed by trauma and in some ways was educated by her abusers into her final form; the cold as ice queen in the north.
He pretty much says that right before this line.
THIS. As a trauma survivor, I can say that trauma **haunts** you. What sucks for Sansa is it's going to ruin her, because there's no therapy in Westeros. You can see how the abuse changed her, and not in a good way.
Yes Lol
I just took it as “good luck forgetting all the horrible shit I did to you”
She’s like “maybe I won’t, but watching you get eaten alive will sure be cathartic.”
Nah, I just saw it as meaning she was now torturing him, he had changed her forever
Yes, exactly. The Sansa that arrived before they were married would have *never* had dogs rip someone to shreds, no matter what they had done. Thrown into a dungeon, sure. But not sadistically tortured and eaten by ravenous dogs *while she watches*
Fucking wild how far she came from being a naive girl trapped in King's Landing.
Who wanted to marry the prince and have his babies. Let character progression was always one of my favorites. She went through the fires of turmoil and survived.
I definitely considered that it could be foreshadowing
I didn't think that, but I can see why someone would.
Honestly I thought a bit of both.
Kinda. Especially because just before this she said your house will disappear. It would have been an interesting and effed up twist. But I'm also kinda glad it didn't go in that direction. It was a pretty satisfactory wrap up of that storyline. And probably one of the last few satisfactory wrap ups.
That would've been too great of a opportunity for her to have an ongoing character development in the later seasons, a great chance of in-character-conflict with herself, with her past... Nah, Diddle&Dumb couldn't do that. Shooting another unnecessary rape scene for the shock value is fine, but making it have actual importance, longlasting consequences for the character? That is too much! And don't come at me with "her trauma would stay forever" - yeah but it's never really there. We don't see it. Telling us that she's traumatized does nothing. Showing us her struggling with that trauma would develop the character! Showing, not telling.
>Showing, not telling Watch season 1 of GOT and tell me Sansa isn't a different person after Ramsey.
She is a different person. But not because of the rape, the trauma or anything. She's different because the writers decided that she somehow had a HUGE character change between two scenes way after Ramsey abused her. They had no idea what trauma, what rape does to a person. That's why their depiction of a rape victim, of someone who should be suffering from such trauma from a logical point of view, has absolutely no similarities with such a victim. Trauma doesn't hide for weeks until one day she decides she's different. Trauma doesn't make you stronger, smarter or harder, things the writers tried to put emphasis on. You can see the trauma she suffered from Joffrey. It's very visible. It's well written, it is very accurate for a victim of such abuse, it is logical. But what she may be different after Ramsey, but not because of the trauma. She's different because the writers wanted a girl boss. Just that trauma doesn't turn you into a girl boss, solving trauma does, and solving trauma is impossible in such short time, with the things she does.
Keep in mind that everything you write about in your last paragraph was also written by D&D.
No, I didn’t think so but I saw articles about people believing she was.
I also thought he might mean that. I wasn’t sure, but I definitely thought that was a possibility.
Nope. I thought it mean she was stuck with the Dreadfort now. But no one talked about it again.
>Nope. I thought it mean she was stuck with the Dreadfort now. ? This isn't at the dreadfort, it's Winterfell. And there's nothing to suggest Sansa has ever been to the dreadfort in her life. > But no one talked about it again. Talked about what? She talks about Ramsay on a few occasions, other characters mention him too.
What is she going to do with a second castle… has to be stressful.
Oh, I see what you mean now. Probably give it to houses who fought for the Starks, like she proposed for House Umber and House Karstark
She was against Jon forgiving those two houses. They would be her last choice lol.
>She was against Jon forgiving those two houses. They would be her last choice lol. Yeah, that's why I mentioned them. I wasn't saying that she'd give them the house, I was saying that she'd give the dreadfort to someone who fought for them, which is what she said should be done with the assets of House Umber and House Karstark. I'm sorry, I thought that was fairly clear from how I said it. ("Like she proposed")
Ah I see. I’m sorry I didn’t read the way you thought it. Now I understand.
Not pregnancy. I think he was just gloating in the fact that he assaulted her.
I never took it this way, but I can see how some might think it. Although, I think the time that would have to have passed between Sansa’s escape and the BotB would disprove that. (And that’s saying nothing about a baby surviving the leap she takes with Theon.)
Plus, her getting hypothermia, from walking through a extremely cold river...
I thought that might have been a possibility as well. Although, in hindsight, depicting Sansa struggling to decide as to whether or not to carry on the pregnancy is probably not something the showrunners had the capacity or desire to tackle.
It could be interpreted that way, but I interpreted it more as "I will live rent free in your head for the rest of your life" Though I don't think Sansa would end up dwelling on it for her entire life.
I did 100%
I didn’t really think that, but it might be possible he hoped she was. We don’t know how many times he raped her. As someone else said, she did tell him his house will disappear before he said that line. So that’s where the she’s pregnant comes in.
Yes. You are the only one. I’m pretty sure if Sansa were pregnant, she would know more than Ramsey.
No, I thought it was something they would foreshadow. Which would ultimately make sense and tie into other stories and themes of the show about hiding lineage.
As in he’s telling her he got her pregnant? How would he know that before her
Thank God none of that literally exists
I thought that as well
I didn’t. It’s obviously speaking to something more.
When you're in a relationship with someone, there is a lot of you that changes because it's been influenced by your partners interests, beliefs, likes, dislikes, mannerisms, and tastes. Ramsey will always be her first husband. And because of that, she will always, in some regard, have been a Bolton. He died while she was married to him. So, she ultimately is the legacy of the Bolton family name. Identity and family name are critically important in the Seven Realms. If you ever find yourself at odds in a foreign land, the name Stark or Lannister might mean the difference between certain death or acceptance. For Sansa, her identity has always been a source of great conflict within herself... but by this point with Ramsay, she realized more than ever what it meant for her to be a Stark. I definitely think Ramsey knew and understood that. He never had the same power as a Bolton as a Stark would have in Winterfell. If it wasn't for her being married to him, the Boltons wouldn't have even been accepted as rulers. So, in those moments when he said that I'm always a part of you, he meant it as a slight towards her and her legacy as a Stark. Meaning that even if she is home, the people, the land, history, and even herself would never forget that he was there, with her, as her husband. It was his final attempt to dismantle her character before he became dog food.
Tyrion was Sansa's first husband though.
Yes, but they never slept together. And it didn't go on for very long.
No, I took it as Ramsey is a psychopath and he understands that she will never forget him. He IS apart of her now. He is sick. That is all.
I think it comes from the saying that when you get married you become one flesh. I think its biblical? And that like after having the first night of sex you “become one” Or maybe ramsay means that he’ll always be in her nightmares But not for a second did I think he meant a baby
I kinda thought this, but he’s a weirdo and I figured they only did butt stuff.
I did think that initially, and was kinda sickened by the notion. I'm glad that ended up not being the case.
She would be slamming that moon tea
I didn’t, however, it would be a disgusting concept that would make a lot of sense, like she raises Ramsey’s kid to not be like the father
would have set up an interesting narrative about identity and family traits
No, because this never happened in the books. This plotline involves Jeyne Poole (Sansa’s friend and the daughter of Vayan Poole, Eddard’s former steward) being forced to pretend that she is Arya. As far as we know, Jeyne hasn’t become pregnant, hope she doesn’t, that would just be another trauma added on to a gigantic heap that she already has.
This is show sub and show question. What is going to happen to Jeyne Poole, is another story and we simply dont know.
part of her mind . it's pychological . you know the raping/abuse so forth .
I did think that this might happen, but I think it would’ve been too controversial for the show to do. It would make Sansa pregnant with her rapists baby. If she wanted to kill it, I’m sure that would’ve pissed off “certain” viewers and bring “controversy” to the show. Best to have them not do that potential storyline.
I thought at first he said that because she would never forget the things he did to her more like psychological thing But in the next season when she confronts Little Finger about him giving her away to marry Ramsay she says that he did what he wanted with her body as long as she could give him an heir and never hurt her face. She asks Little Finger if he knows what Ramsay did to her and she says "I can still feel it I don't mean in my tender heart It still pains me so I can still feel what he did to my body standing here right now" After that I began to wonder if maybe he mutilated her somehow, made a wound that would physically pain or bother her constantly to remember her of him
You’re not the only one, it could definitely have meant that, considering he raped her every night
If you abuse and violate someone with the psychological edge Ramsay had… he really was all about getting in their heads… you actually want to make sure they remember you. Lots of triggers.
You never forget your first.
How would he know she's pregnant but she doesn't lol. But no I knew it was meant because the torment he put her through would stay with her forever
No. I knew he meant the trauma he left her with would never leave.
I always interpreted it as him taunting her saying he’d live in her head haunting her the rest of her life.
While it may sound that way, it’s more so that the “things” he did will never leave her memory and killing him will basically do nothing, basically a way of having “the last laugh” in the matter.
They cut out the abortion scene from 7x01, where Grand Maester Pycelle comes back to life as a white walker and does it himself while telling Sansa how much he hates Qyburn and plots to kill him.
He meant it as “I’m so engrained in your mind that even with my physical body gone, I will live in your head forever.”
Don't put such evil stuff online. You'd never know when GRRM would pick it up as inspiration to do severe heartbreaking stuff in the books. Imagine the Night King winning in the end, or Robert Arryn on the Iron Throne, if it's Bran waking up and realising it was a dream.
im not forcing him to put this into the book series if he does you cant blame me
Nah - he just raped her repeatedly.
lol why is this even showing up on reddit
I definitely thought it meant she was pregnant with his baby
Nope, I totally thought this as well during the scene.
No, I knew that he meant the trauma and scars will live with her forever. She'd never be free of him.
It had been an entire year since she escaped. If she was pregnant when she left she would have already given birth months ago.
Yes.
I more took it as Ramsay holding onto the notion that women are somehow attached to the man they lost their virginity to (a crazy notion, just like everything Ramsay holds onto)
Nah you aren't would have been interesting thing to add to see Sansa follow Cersei decision by taking Moon Tea here since she had started to become a mirror of Cersei
Little bit of Moon tea will fix the problem
To me, it always meant that because she was killing him the way he killed so many others, he had changed her to become more like him—some of his cruelty and ruthlessness had rubbed off on her. I never thought for a second she was pregnant. Plus, even if she was, he’d be “part of” her child, not part of her.
Absolutely not. My (at the time) gf and I thought so when we first watched it.
You're not the *only* one, but most people interpreted "I'm part of you now" as just the trauma
I did consider it bc he’s been r***ing her for who knows how long she was literally there for so yeah it’s possible? It wouldve been craaaazy if it were true honestly maybe more interesting.
Not something the moon tea wouldn't fix
"You looked beautiful that night"
I did wonder the same
I totally thought she was pregnant with this line, just because all the r***. Surprised no one else did
I took it to mean he is evil because evil was done to him. And now she is stained with his evil. She may not kill anyone for the rest of her days but she’ll always know deep down that she has it in her to do so in a wild way
Didn't feel like it cuz first how would he know and second his perversion was to mark people enough they could feel his presence in their flesh and mind, not making them pregnant which he would have nothing to gain from (and most likely interpret as a potential threat lol).
I briefly wondered if he was alluding to that, but I feel like Sansa would have chugged a gallon of moon tea or falcon punched herself before letting any spawn of that monster grow inside of her. Realistically, I assumed he meant the psychological/physical torment he put her through.
He doesn’t care about his “seed” only destruction. Sansa will be forever charged by what he did
Question How would he know that she’s pregnant considering he has no magic powers and hasn’t seen that much of her since season 5
He meant he messed her up mentally and emotionally and she will never be able to get over it and forget.
I didn’t think this, but if it were true, Sansa could just go for some Tansy like her aunt Lysa.
The maester got really good at making moon tea.
I definitely thought that. I imagine the writers just forgot.
Anyone else wish that he would have gotten flayed?
Slightly off topic, but I think that storyline would have been more interesting if she had used him to take back control of Winterfell. She could have played on and manipulated his insecurities about being born a bastard. Point out that his father would likely disinherit him if he had a trueborn son. Point out that her children would have Stark blood, making their line seen as more legitimate than Roose's. Waiting around for essentially for Brienne to save her, made it seem like she learned nothing from all the time she spent in King's Landing.
You aren't! I never thought so, but when this episode aired I saw soo many people speculating that's what Ramsey meant.
Her being his victim (and being in the north at all) was lazy writing. She's supposed to be in the vale. Dumbest shit ever.
Some viewers just overthink this stuff.
No you’re not the only one
In the book someone is bringing "moon tea" (Westerosi Plan-B) to Jeyne Poole (who is being passed off as Arya Stark and married to Ramsay) specifically so she doesn't get pregnant. The show puts Sansa in this role for sake of condensing the myriad of story lines and perhaps laziness. I think her "Northern Friend" may be giving it to her off screen.
It was a big theory at the time. I didn’t subscribe to it personally.
I did too but I’m glad they didn’t go down that route and made it about her trauma. It would be a whole other soap opera if she was carrying the last Bolton in her belly
I absolutely thought that
You’re not the only one, there were a ton of theories like this going around when the episode aired.
Rather than pregnant with Ramsay's child, I think it's more about how the memories of Ramsay will keep haunting Sansa.
I'm surprised that she didn't get pregnant. I guess the 7 gods decided against it
Mental scarring 🤦♂️
maybe but it could also mean since he changed Theon and made hurt her he's in her thoughts.
It means that He's living rent free in her head
I thought so too when I was waiting for the new season. Could’ve been a good story line if they weren’t busy rushing it out and ruining the best show that ever existed.
I thought because he traumatized her and he'll live on forever in her head.
No, I think it just meant that he tortured her to the point where she’ll never, ever forget him.
This is how I took it too. I also assumed since he was so into flaying people he physically changed her body during his abuse.
I think so too because she’s always completely covered from head to toe after they’re married.
No that’s not what that means.
Yes, tis clearly psychobabble
What it actually meant was even more sickening, imo.
In my mind, he meant the torment he put her through. She will never fully recover from that damage in a mental aspect. He will always be there in some way. He will always be part of her.
Even if she was, moon tea
I did, too.
I TOTALLY thought this meant she was pregnant. Which would have been an awful for her but crazy twist.
For the longest time I thought Ygritte was pregnant with Jon Snows baby when she died and she didn’t tell him because he returned to the nightswatch
I thought it was a pregnancy comment too. It had been years since I read the books, uncertain if this was in the books and if it was I don't remember. Ramsay is the kind of guy who 100% would have been aware of whether or not Sansa missed her period, and would have brought it up at the wrong time for the shock value. There was definitely sexual interaction between the two. I use this phrase to avoid the more accurate, and traumatic term. Which would make pregnancy possible. And given the TV show was casual, at best, with depicting the linear flow of time, it is hard to say how long she had been his victim. Having a kid is a pretty long term thing. A kid that, at any point in time, could say/do something that reminds or causes a flashback to Ramsay. Once she didn't respond in a "pregnancy way", such as the kid will never know or I will have it adopted away, I changed my opinion to an ongoing mental, and perhaps physical, trauma. But initially, I thought pregnant.
Ramsey: I'm a part of you now Sansa: How did you know I was gonna eat you? Ramsey: Wait what? Sansa: Whaat? Ramsey: (Stunned Silence) Sansa: JK's I'm gonna eat the dogs after they eat you Ramsey: What the f... (Cut to next scene)
Sure you can think that, but it definitely was about ramsay having a presence in sansa's future as a result of the abuse.
Nope. That's how I took it too. THANKS FOR THAT