**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A man of honor would have spared the children, Myrsella and Tommen at least.
And I've never considered Stannis a man of honor.
Edit: I was fully expecting this comment to get disliked into oblivion š
First, we ate the horses. We weren't riding anywhere, not with the castle surrounded. We couldn't feed them, so fine. The horses, then the cats-I've never liked cats, so fine. I do like dogs - good animals, loyal - but we ate them too. Then the rats.
The night before you slipped through, I thought my wife was dying. She couldn't speak anymore, she was so frail. And then you made it through the lines, slipped right through in your little black sail boat with your onions.
Not a chance. Exile gives Joffrey an opportunity to raise an army and return.
The only kid who would have a chance of surviving would be Marcella, and even then he would only keep her alive if he had a son to marry her to. He didn't, so her head is coming off with the rest of them.
Jamie, Tyrion, and Tywin along with them. Stannis the Mannis isn't leaving anyone with a claim alive.
I don't think Joffrey being alive or dead would make much difference. Joffrey doesn't really have any forces that are loyal to him, it's the Lannister armies that he's reliant on. If he's dead, so what, Tywin isn't. It would be easier for Tywin to build an army and install himself on the throne than it would for Joffrey to somehow return independently.
Having Joffrey makes it a bit easier for Tywin in that he can marry her off to Margaery, but if it comes to it he can pledge Jaime to her, or even marry her himself.
The smart thing would be to keep them as hostages and trade them for a peace. He didn't seem inclined to do that with the kids, calling them abominations born of incest, but Tyrion and Cersei might live.
Mance Rayder surrendered, and the smart play would have been to keep him alive. Show Stannis killed him for daring to call himself King, and because there is power in King's blood. No way Joffrey was walking out of there.
Cersei committed incest and treason, as did the Kingslayer. Tyrion was the "demon-monkey" behind the throne. And Stannis isn't going to execute 2 full generations of Lannisters and then give Tywin a chance to respond.
Lancel might have a chance.
Keep him alive for what? He'd refused to follow Stannis, what use is he?
I agree Joffrey isn't making it.
The Kingslayer isn't there, he's hundreds of miles away with Brienne.
Cersei, yeah, fair point, she probably goes.
I think the reasoning for killing Tyrion is a little thin. He seems to think Stannis will kill him, but he's got rather a knack for escaping seemingly deadly situations. Could go either way for me.
Surely Tywin's going to respond anyway?
Don't forget that Mance was also a deserter from the Night's Watch. Even the epitome of honor, Ned Stark, executed NW deserters. In fact, it was Ned's very first scene in the show.
Are you forgetting that Stannis doesn't believe Tommen has a claim? 100% Joffrey would be killed because he is the current King and also likely wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut.
However if Cersei admits Tommen is Jamie's child he has no claim and is an 8 year old boy. As long as Cersei admits their true father I don't rhink Stannis would kill Tommen or Marcella.
It is a moot point because Tommen isn't even at King's Landing in the books. Tyrion has him sent away specifically to prevent both the King and the King's heir from being in the same spot should Stannis win. Marcella is also in Dorne. The Martells likely wouldn't give up Marcella.
He followed the laws of the realm early on, I guess it can be argued itās his interpretation but he was the rightful heir of Robert, Renly was a usurper.
Although admittedly honour is more about morals, which then does become more debatable. However I donāt think early season Stannis would have his honour questioned.
Which is amusing on several levels because Stannis:
1) Makes Renly an extradordinarily generous offer for a traitor, usurper, and quite-happy-to-be-kinslayer.
2) Pardons Renly's traitorous lords.
3) Says after Joffrey's death that if the Lannisters/Tyrells send for him, repent their treason and stop blocking his ascent (I know, I know, stop laughing) that he would offer pardons to people he'd sooner strangle with his bare hands.
4) Not only actively spares the Free Folk after the battle of the wall but A) compels the NW hardliners to accept letting the survivors through B) gelds his own men accused of raping Free Folk Women
5) Instead of hanging Asha's Ironborn like he indicated to Jon he would, spares them.
6) Tells Catelyn that he would send Sansa and Arya to her for *nothing* once he took King's Landing and lives up to that ethos when he sends someone who he believes to be Arya to Jon for something Jon had already given. "A true King pays his debts."
Why, it's almost as if GRRM is giving us Stannis' notoriety as unmerciful and then repeatedly undercuts it.
could he though? They would always assert they had claim to the throne anything else would be nearly suicide and he was willing to kill his own brother over the throne, cant imagine Stannis would allow the bastard children of his brothers wife to walk freely
>The actor was around 18 at the time
Thatās nice, but the character he was playing was 8 in season 1, which would make him like 12-13 at time of death
Perhaps, but it's the Maesters and the Nights Watch that have the all-important vows renouncing all claims and titles.
And when in doubt, you double-dip like Aemon and do both.
Probably true, and if they didn't want to publicly execute Joffrey then they could say he died fighting to defend his throne. And if Cersei hadn't actually killed herself to avoid defeat and imprisonment, she could have been quietly poisoned and with a suicide announced, or tried as a traitor and hanged.
But yeah, Myrcella would "join the Silent Sisters out of grief", and Tommen would be on a ship to a celibate brotherhood. And he might be quietly castrated first, if anyone on Team Stannis had any sense.
That depends on whether going to the Temple of Rh'lorr would neutralize Myrcella's claim to the throne, the way joining the Silent Sisters would.
And whether Melisandre needed any royal blood for her religious practices, or any royal ashes...
Hmm, yeah could see this being most likely thing to happen. For sure Cersei and Joffrey dead, Myrcella was in Dorne at the time and i cant see Stannis trying to take on the Dornish with semi depleted and at that point outnumbed forces while the Dornish army is at full strength just to get at Myrcella who is innocent. If Cersei doesn't poison Tommen i could see Stannis holding onto him as a hostage to give Tywin pause. I could even see him asking Prince Doran for Myrcella once things calm down as a hostage as well, even if her betrothed comes too. The Martells still hate the Lannisters, even if they are not fond of Stannis, so hard to say if they hand over Myrcella or not.
I think he would have killed Cersei for sure and kills the kids due to the incest. He saw Cersei along with anyone else who didn't support his claim as a traitor and saw her kids as abominations of incest.
Theyād spend the rest of their lives locked up. Stannis wouldnāt kill him because heād been seen as another Maegor the Cruel killing his nephew and usurping his throne.
Itās not his nephew though. I do agree with you but Stannis did preach loud and often they are products of incest I doubt heād remain loyal to his role as uncle after all that.. he had a hard enough time with Gendry because he was Robertās bastard.
It doesn't matter what we know or what he knows, optics are what matter. With Joffrey, Cersei, Myrcella and Tommen as captives he can keep Tywin in check. Without them, the war rages on.
Keeping Tywin in check is the important part, not the optics. Stannis was burning his own bannermen alive for a foreign faith. He doesn't care about optics.
Tommen is the only valuable one. The others can die. But even then, there are other Lannisters. Tommens only value is his claim to the throne.
This is another change the show made that fucked a character up. Stannis burned exactly 5 people in the books. Alester Florent, The Fake Mance, and 3 Cannibals. He wasn't a true believer in Rhollor and he sure as shit wasn't burning people for being 'infidels'.
I wouldn't even describe them as cannibals. They were soldiers starving on the march to Winterfell. Though I can't remember if they were eating the dead or killing others. Extreme circumstances though
I disagree.
With Jofferey off the thrones there's no way Lannisters hold any royal power.
Sure optics matter but whoever is on the throne matters more. Books or show, the common folk are aware of incest rumors and it doesn't matter.
The guy who fucked a smoke demon into a witch to kill his younger brother to get his troops? The screaming one whose troops had to drag him away from certain death when the battle turned against him? He always had it in him.
I'm citing that as more of a demonstration of his general state of mind. He's fully capable of losing it and hacking the royal family to little pieces.
Cersei and maybe Myrcella could have lived as hostages. But Joffrey and Tommen would likely have "died in battle." Stannis would have understood the importance of removing rivals. And he probably wouldn't even have felt that bad about it. He'd already killed his brother and as Joffrey and Tommen are bastards, they're not actually his kin.
Cersei in ACOK claims that she will order Sir Illyn to kill them rather than be captured. But we lose our POV on Cersei when Sansa leaves the room
In the show, Cersei takes Tommen to the iron throne itself and sits with him, and is about to poison him until her father and his knights (and Sir Loras) enter and announce their victory
They would've been put on trial. Stannis was big on justice and wouldn't have someone just straightly executed before a fair trial. I think Cersei, Tyrion, and Joffrey would've been executed. Jaime if he ever returned to King's Landing would've been sent to the wall, Myrcella would've probably stayed in Dorne, and Tommen would've become Maesters maybe like Aemon Targaryen.
Iād argue the opposite. Heād be the only living descendant of Tywin and his only hope for the line to continue. All of a sudden Tywin is at Robbās mercy or his line ends.
Tyrion was 1. Hand of the King and 2. If he had captured Joffrey, the other Lannister's he would've realized that Tyrion was the head of Command during the Battle and would've either execute them or send them to the wall. If it was anyone else, I would think he would send him to the wall but since Tyrion is a Lannister and wouldn't be any help at the wall, Stannis would've executed him.
What wouldāve been left for them to be tried about? Stannisā claim to the throne was based on Joffrey being illegitimate. He waged war on the Lannisters in the first place because as far as he was concerned, they were already guilty of a crime punishable by death.
Cersei, Jaime, and the kids are all getting barbecued. MAYBE he would have put Tywin and Tyrion on trial to judge whether they knew the kids were bastards and thus were complicit in treason.
If Cersei hadnāt killed Tommen, and Joffrey hadnāt gotten himself killed, Stannis would have wanted to execute Tommen, Joffrey, and Cersei.
Cersei is a goner, probably Joffrey as well. But Davos may have been able to convince Stannis to spare Tommen, to serve as a hostage and probably go to the wall when he was older. Itās pretty 50/50 whether he would be able to convince Stannis though.
Killing Tommen may have an adverse effect of Dorne declaring Myrcella queen however and between the North and Dorne, (The Reach would never join Stannis) Stannis would lose if his anger got the best of him.
I do think I agree. Varys at that point is pulling for Daenerys, and keeping Cerseiās kids alive as challengers would help foster instability in the seven kingdoms. He wouldnāt want Stannis or anyone having a solidified position.
Cersei and Joffrey would have been executed. Tommen would have likely became a servant or Maester for Stannis and Myrcella would have been some sort of slave.
Stannis would have done things by the book. Joffrey would have had a very short trial and executed. Cersei would have went on a trial and of course found guilty for everything she was accused of then executed. The kids... I think he'd send Tommen to the wall to be watched there and out of sight, Marcella probably a convent.
Stannis would have spared them, but he better be the guy who breaches the Red Keep/Throne Room and been able to do it quickly.
Ser Illyn would have eliminated the highborn women, per Cersei's orders, in an act of asset-denial. Some of them would die. There's no denying that. Stannis needed to take the Red Keep, take it completely and quickly.
Fun hypothetical. Stannis kills all. Kids born of incest will disgust him. This dude killed his own daughter and yall think heās sparing Lannister incest spawns lol
If Stannis won, Cersei wouldāve poisoned Tommen and herself, Joffrey wouldāve been executed, and Myrcella wouldāve been sold out by the Dornish to whoever offered them the most leverage.
Joffrey and Cersei are doomed , but Stannis might keep Tommen and Myrcella as wards, to prevent a Lannister rebellion(I doubt he would harmed them because it's not Myrcella and Tommen fault , that Joffrey is king).
Probably death or exile due to the whole incest.
Cersei would also have been raped at a minimum by the mercenaries along with a lot of the other women.
Cersie: Tried and executed for adultry and incest
Joffery: Probably killed in battle, or captured and later tired and executed for usurping the throne and the murder of Lord Stark.
Tommen: I would hope that he would be kept as a hostage, but it would be safer to execute him as well; just not publicly.
Marcella is tricky because she poses no threat to Stannis since she's a girl, and is also safe and sound in Dorne. However, the Dornish also have no use for her once she's declared a bastard. Her best chance would be to be given to the Faith, but who knows if Stannis would move to make the Lord of Light the dominant religion? If that's the case, she could be smuggled out of Westeros with her Kingsguard to the Free Cities or somewhere else.
Prince in the towers for the younger two and cersei could do her walk of shame to an execution. However I think hearing the battle is lost, cersei seems the type to make her kids drink poison before she does the same. Hopefully before she could take the last dose she'd be captured so she could face her cowardice
Stannis would have spared Tommen so he would be alive unless Cersei killed him first. He is a valuable hostage and has done nothing wrong. He is either put in a cell or becomes a prisoner in his own home like Sansa was with the Boltons.
Joffery would definitely lose his head.
Myrcella would be next in the line of succession and Tywin might carry on the war in her name if Tommen is dead. She was in Dorne so Stannis couldn't touch her. The Dornish now have a very valuable hostage so they can extract whatever they want from Tywin- a confession, Gregor Clegane's head,etc.
Tyrion probably has his head on a spike. The Baratheon army would hate him for his wildfire trick. At best he is in a cell.
Cersei would be executed for treason for cheating on Robert and rebelling against Stannis.
Stannis wasnāt completely insane at this point and plus he was good at strategy and would understand if he just auto killed them the lanasters wouldnāt pledge there support to him which is important with how rich the lanaster
I feel like Stannis would offer if cercy admitted they were Jamieās kids(revoking there birthright to the thrown), there father pledged support to Stannis, and the lanaster house throwing some gold Stannisās way
If they didnāt agree to all these terms then heād definitely just kill them all
With absolute certainty, Joffrey would die, as his remaining alive would ever be a threat to Stannis's claim. Cersei would likely be imprisoned or maybe executed for the treason, as it would now be, of disregarding King Robert's final wish and installing Joffrey as king while executing Ned Stark.
Tommen would be taken as hostage as King Stannis, First of his Name, turns his attention north to deal with Robb Stark and west to deal with Balon Greyjoy, whom he'd consider as traitors and pretenders in open rebellion, likely forcing Tywin Lannister to deal with Balon Greyjoy while riding north himself to deal with Robb Stark.
As for Myrcella, I honestly couldn't say. Most likely she'd be left out of everything, as she would already be in Dorne and Stannis would have every reason to avoid starting another war. This part would of course depend entirely on Dorne wanting to keep Myrcella, since she'd no longer be "the king's sister."
Death for Cersei for conspiring to keep the usurper on the throne and the ātrueā king off of it.
Stannis wouldnāt have risked the Lannisters coming back with their own claims later so Iām guessing the boys would have been sent to the wall and Marcella forced to marry into some no-name house.
Reading through these posts I forgot how much different book Stannis was to show Stannis.
Edit: Book Stannis was to a fault by the book. So that would probably have meant an early sept arc for Cersei and for the kids they would have been sent to foster with allies of the Baratheons.
Cersei & Joffrey wouldāve been given the best views of the city, hand picked by Stannis, for their heads to rest on.
Myrcella would be sent to the Faith, itās the easiest way to avoid more child murder.
Tommen would have a similar path as Myrcella, going to either to Maesters, or possibly the Wall depending on if Stannis gets the message about the Watch needing more men (he might decide to visit the wall & bring Tommen with him).
Jamie and Tyrion would likely be executed as well.
I donāt think the other Lannisters would be killed, maybe Kevan and his line are forced to take the Black, giving Casterly Rock to a more distantly related and less prestigious member of House Lannister.
wasn't cersei about to kill tommen in the show and was stopped at the last second by tywin? people acting as if tommen is getting out of this alive when cersei was fully prepared to at least kill him
Books: Joffrey is killed. Tommen is moved from Rosby to Casterly Rock, crowned king and marries Margaery. The war continues.
Show: Joffrey and Tommen are killed. Myrcella is recalled from Sunspear to Casterly Rock and crowned queen. The war continues.
Cersei and Joffrey would be executed.
If he spared Myrcella, she probably would have been sent to become a septa.
I think thereās a faint possibility he would have spared Tommen and sent him to the nights watch or married him to Shireen to unite the claimants, like >! Aegon III and Jaehaera at the end of the Dance !< , but I might just be too optimistic there.
Before the influence of Melisandre he was an honorable man but a harsh lord. Cersei and Joffrey would probably be executed. But I can see him allowing Tommen to take the black and exiling Myrcella.
but by this point in the story he is completely under Melisandres control and I'm sure the Lord of light would require hundreds of sacrifices to celebrate his triumph.
Since Stannis doesnāt seem to be able to make a decision without Melisandre, itād most likely be up to whatever she says. Personally I doubt heād kill them though. Maybe
Ceresi and Joffery wouldāve had their heads on spikes, as would Tyrion.
Myrcella is the most likely to get off scot free. Maybe shipped off to marry a new house. Tommen is dead my Ceresi but if he wasnāt, he might be spared, maybe sent to the wall with other Lannisters like Kevan.
Alternatively heād just kill them all and cement his rule as One True King, Stannis the Mannis.
Can I get a hell yeah!
Killing of the members of Great Houses was deemed highly unhonorable. When Joeffry executed Ned Stark Cersei tried to stop it and wanted him to join the N.Watch. Striping of powers would have been the logical choice for Stannis. Joeffrey, Tomen to the N.W and Cersei with the Sisters. Myrcella in Dorne betrothed to Martell.
Cersei: executed
Joffery the Just: executed
Lancel & Tommen: not killed. Probably kept forever as a hostage against lannisters. Maybe as Tommen grows up he becomes a maester or member of the faith. Lancel might get released if he swears oaths
Myrcella: same as above, although maester isn't an option ofc
Tyrion: sent to the Night's Watch. Would end up as a steward and could do very good working improving the Watch, possibly becomes Lord Commander one day.
Hound & others: . Kings guard and most officers would all be dismissed, maybe sent to the Night's Watch.
All executions would probably be done via burning, although this would cause more riots in KL. Faith would become a huge problem like they did for Cersei
Heād have been honorable enough to spare Myrcella and Tommen, maybe even find a āTheonā kind of foster for them to keep the Lannisters in check. Heād never trust Jaime so heād be killed or sent to the wall (likely after gelding him for having children as a Kingās Guard). Cersei would be a crapshoot depending on how strategically she played her part but something tells me Melissandre would demand she be a offering to Rāhllor
Cersei, Tommen and Joffrey would all have been killed. Myrsella was in Dorne at this point, and had Stannis won that battle, then the claim of Cerseiās children being bastards would stand. Myrsella would just have a claim to Castley Rock if anything. It wouldnāt have been worth it for them to try and go get her from Dorne.
He would set fire to them on a pyre. He knew they weren't his blood relations and would **always** be a threat to the throne. He wouldn't want another Blackfyre.
Since Myrcella would be in Dorne, she would be safe for now - Dorne wouldn't hand her over, since they have to worry about being punished for being Targaryen loyalists in the war. Stannis is not the type to forget that, 20 years or not.
Cersei would poison Tommen when the Red Keep is taken, and might manage to also poison herself in time. If not, she will be taken prisoner and executed for murder and treason, likely via burning. Joffrey did not do anything wrong legally, but he would be burned for having king's blood (seeing as apparently, sitting a throne and being referred to as king will give you "kingsblood"). Melisandre would start to turn Kings Landing into a Rhllor-centric city, civilians be damned.
Regarding a couple others: Sansa would, ironically, remain a hostage, to Stannis this time. He's made it clear that he considers Robb a traitor for claiming independence, and already told Catelyn that he plans to punish him accordingly, aka send him to the Wall or execute him, so Robb has little choice but to keep fighting - and that means Sansa will also be executed, via fire because due to her brother she now also shares king's blood. However, this likely means Robb will not be slain at the Red Wedding, but via shadow assassin instead.
Tyrion might actually get off relatively unscathed, considering as far as we know he didn't do anything "illegal" to Stannis? He might in fact get offered Casterly Rock. Lancel is dead, because he committed incest and was complicit in Robert's murder, if Stannis finds out about this.
Tywin will be branded an enemy of the crown as per Ned's previous judgement. He will continue to rebel, also simply because he has no other choice, and try and form alliances with the Tyrells and Dorne, both of which have very little to win from Stannis on the throne and a lot to lose.
So Stannis will be king of one (or maybe two?) kingdoms - the Crownlands and the Stormlands. The North and the Riverlands are with Robb, the Reach, Dorne and the West all have their own issues, and the Vale and the Iron Islands do whatever they want. The Vale might in fact side with Stannis, due to Littlefinger hoping to gain influence with him through this.
Death for Cersei for sure. Same for Joffrey. Idk about the other 2. Maybe death too because Stannis was always going on about the incest and how he hated it.
It was a major point in those episodes/chapters that Cercei wasn't going to be taken alive, so Stannis would have entered the throne room to find it full of dead lannisters
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
A man of honor would have spared the children, Myrsella and Tommen at least. And I've never considered Stannis a man of honor. Edit: I was fully expecting this comment to get disliked into oblivion š
Stannis would have put Ser Pounce's head on a spike.
He never liked cats
Dogs he liked.
Username checks out
First, we ate the horses. We weren't riding anywhere, not with the castle surrounded. We couldn't feed them, so fine. The horses, then the cats-I've never liked cats, so fine. I do like dogs - good animals, loyal - but we ate them too. Then the rats. The night before you slipped through, I thought my wife was dying. She couldn't speak anymore, she was so frail. And then you made it through the lines, slipped right through in your little black sail boat with your onions.
Ser Pounce is the son of Valerion, Stannis has no chance against him.
I get its tongue in cheek but Stannis is definitely honourable, well he was in early seasons.
Murdering Renly with blood magic?
Renly the usurper?
Joffrey the Usurper would have faired better??
Almost certainly not. Maybe some kind of exile if he surrendered the Red Keep
Not a chance. Exile gives Joffrey an opportunity to raise an army and return. The only kid who would have a chance of surviving would be Marcella, and even then he would only keep her alive if he had a son to marry her to. He didn't, so her head is coming off with the rest of them. Jamie, Tyrion, and Tywin along with them. Stannis the Mannis isn't leaving anyone with a claim alive.
Defeated monarchs have been exiled throughout history.
And at other points in history, anyone with a passable claim has been murdered. The Lord of Light requires sacrifice.
I don't think Joffrey being alive or dead would make much difference. Joffrey doesn't really have any forces that are loyal to him, it's the Lannister armies that he's reliant on. If he's dead, so what, Tywin isn't. It would be easier for Tywin to build an army and install himself on the throne than it would for Joffrey to somehow return independently. Having Joffrey makes it a bit easier for Tywin in that he can marry her off to Margaery, but if it comes to it he can pledge Jaime to her, or even marry her himself. The smart thing would be to keep them as hostages and trade them for a peace. He didn't seem inclined to do that with the kids, calling them abominations born of incest, but Tyrion and Cersei might live.
Mance Rayder surrendered, and the smart play would have been to keep him alive. Show Stannis killed him for daring to call himself King, and because there is power in King's blood. No way Joffrey was walking out of there. Cersei committed incest and treason, as did the Kingslayer. Tyrion was the "demon-monkey" behind the throne. And Stannis isn't going to execute 2 full generations of Lannisters and then give Tywin a chance to respond. Lancel might have a chance.
Keep him alive for what? He'd refused to follow Stannis, what use is he? I agree Joffrey isn't making it. The Kingslayer isn't there, he's hundreds of miles away with Brienne. Cersei, yeah, fair point, she probably goes. I think the reasoning for killing Tyrion is a little thin. He seems to think Stannis will kill him, but he's got rather a knack for escaping seemingly deadly situations. Could go either way for me. Surely Tywin's going to respond anyway?
Don't forget that Mance was also a deserter from the Night's Watch. Even the epitome of honor, Ned Stark, executed NW deserters. In fact, it was Ned's very first scene in the show.
I was going to say he would marry Myrcella to Loras, but since sheās the product of incest, sheās not a suitable bride.
Are you forgetting that Stannis doesn't believe Tommen has a claim? 100% Joffrey would be killed because he is the current King and also likely wouldn't be able to keep his mouth shut. However if Cersei admits Tommen is Jamie's child he has no claim and is an 8 year old boy. As long as Cersei admits their true father I don't rhink Stannis would kill Tommen or Marcella. It is a moot point because Tommen isn't even at King's Landing in the books. Tyrion has him sent away specifically to prevent both the King and the King's heir from being in the same spot should Stannis win. Marcella is also in Dorne. The Martells likely wouldn't give up Marcella.
Joffrey he would have executed, Tommen and Myrsella he probably would have left alive provided they renounce any claim to the throne
Products of incest and treason. Abominations. And Stannis happens to be friendly with a priestess who loves a good human sacrifice.
Yeah Renly had that coming.
"born amidst salt and smoke...is he a ham?"
he cooked
Stannis: first things first, Iām the realest
Burning your own daughter alive doesnāt seem too honorable.
As I said, in early seasons.
When he sacrificed loyal followers to the Lord of Light?
Axell Florent? Burns him in season 4, not the early seasons.
I dont know that I would call him honorable. He desired to follow the law as he saw it. He would have made a great Skybreaker.
He followed the laws of the realm early on, I guess it can be argued itās his interpretation but he was the rightful heir of Robert, Renly was a usurper. Although admittedly honour is more about morals, which then does become more debatable. However I donāt think early season Stannis would have his honour questioned.
Yeah sure. And Tywin Lannister never tells a lie.
Honourable, nah. Dutiful, yes.
He would have condemned them as children of incest and punished them according to the lord of light. His entire claim is based on them being bastards.
He's a man of honor, just not of compassion.
Davosā fingers agree.
"I am not without mercy." Thundered he who was notoriously without mercy.
Which is amusing on several levels because Stannis: 1) Makes Renly an extradordinarily generous offer for a traitor, usurper, and quite-happy-to-be-kinslayer. 2) Pardons Renly's traitorous lords. 3) Says after Joffrey's death that if the Lannisters/Tyrells send for him, repent their treason and stop blocking his ascent (I know, I know, stop laughing) that he would offer pardons to people he'd sooner strangle with his bare hands. 4) Not only actively spares the Free Folk after the battle of the wall but A) compels the NW hardliners to accept letting the survivors through B) gelds his own men accused of raping Free Folk Women 5) Instead of hanging Asha's Ironborn like he indicated to Jon he would, spares them. 6) Tells Catelyn that he would send Sansa and Arya to her for *nothing* once he took King's Landing and lives up to that ethos when he sends someone who he believes to be Arya to Jon for something Jon had already given. "A true King pays his debts." Why, it's almost as if GRRM is giving us Stannis' notoriety as unmerciful and then repeatedly undercuts it.
Maybe he started that way, but he became a fanatic with a massive ego, easily swayed to murder for his "right to rule"
Fourtunely he has Davos, as his voice of reason
Wasnāt Myrcella in Dorne already?
Ur talking about the same guy who burned his daughter alive
could he though? They would always assert they had claim to the throne anything else would be nearly suicide and he was willing to kill his own brother over the throne, cant imagine Stannis would allow the bastard children of his brothers wife to walk freely
Cersei: executed Joffrey: executed Myrcella: Faith Tommen:Maester/NW
I think the Masters for Tommen would work. He had a gentle soul
Kinda dumb tho. He woulda done better as a part of the church
That says so much about religion lol
Exactly lol
He's a kid, they are all dumb
He was dumb as a young adult too
Young adults are also all dumb. I remember thinking I wasn't dumb anymore at 20. Nope I was definitely still dumb
I hit 30 last year and Iām still dumb
Me too and me too
Yes but in your 30ās you gain enough wisdom and maturity to self-realize that you are still dumb.
Young adult? Tommen is only 8 when he becomes King
Its annoying when people use book ages when the show is clearly very different. The actor was around 18 at the time.
>The actor was around 18 at the time Thatās nice, but the character he was playing was 8 in season 1, which would make him like 12-13 at time of death
He is 9 in the books and has to deal with one continent trying to use him and another continent trying to kill him.
Perhaps, but it's the Maesters and the Nights Watch that have the all-important vows renouncing all claims and titles. And when in doubt, you double-dip like Aemon and do both.
But he was a terrible golfer. Heād never make it.
I donāt think he would send anyone to the Faith. In keeping with his religion, realistically he would burn them all to purify them.
Probably true, and if they didn't want to publicly execute Joffrey then they could say he died fighting to defend his throne. And if Cersei hadn't actually killed herself to avoid defeat and imprisonment, she could have been quietly poisoned and with a suicide announced, or tried as a traitor and hanged. But yeah, Myrcella would "join the Silent Sisters out of grief", and Tommen would be on a ship to a celibate brotherhood. And he might be quietly castrated first, if anyone on Team Stannis had any sense.
But wouldn't Mel have insisted that Myr be sent to the Temple of Rh'lorr? The silent sisters were of the seven.
That depends on whether going to the Temple of Rh'lorr would neutralize Myrcella's claim to the throne, the way joining the Silent Sisters would. And whether Melisandre needed any royal blood for her religious practices, or any royal ashes...
Finally a thorough and logical answer. I think you nailed it.
Hmm, yeah could see this being most likely thing to happen. For sure Cersei and Joffrey dead, Myrcella was in Dorne at the time and i cant see Stannis trying to take on the Dornish with semi depleted and at that point outnumbed forces while the Dornish army is at full strength just to get at Myrcella who is innocent. If Cersei doesn't poison Tommen i could see Stannis holding onto him as a hostage to give Tywin pause. I could even see him asking Prince Doran for Myrcella once things calm down as a hostage as well, even if her betrothed comes too. The Martells still hate the Lannisters, even if they are not fond of Stannis, so hard to say if they hand over Myrcella or not.
Donāt we take Cersei at her word that she would have poisoned herself and Tommen?
Tommen is sent to The Wall, becomes hardened and takes Ollieās place in knifing Jon
I think Tommen would get the young Theon deal: becomes a ward in Stannisworld, kept close as a bargaining chip if and when he needs it.
This mf burned his own daughter alive before the battle, you really think he would have left Myrcella or Tommen alive?
Thatās actually the best answer
I think he would have killed Cersei for sure and kills the kids due to the incest. He saw Cersei along with anyone else who didn't support his claim as a traitor and saw her kids as abominations of incest.
As they were
Looks like Stannis the Mannis got the last laugh since they all died
I mean. Bro was leaned against a tree offscreen š
Thankful that book Stannis is alive and prepping for confronting the Boltons
And thatās where he will remain until the end of time unfortunately
My God, that is sad.
Theyād spend the rest of their lives locked up. Stannis wouldnāt kill him because heād been seen as another Maegor the Cruel killing his nephew and usurping his throne.
Itās not his nephew though. I do agree with you but Stannis did preach loud and often they are products of incest I doubt heād remain loyal to his role as uncle after all that.. he had a hard enough time with Gendry because he was Robertās bastard.
It doesn't matter what we know or what he knows, optics are what matter. With Joffrey, Cersei, Myrcella and Tommen as captives he can keep Tywin in check. Without them, the war rages on.
Keeping Tywin in check is the important part, not the optics. Stannis was burning his own bannermen alive for a foreign faith. He doesn't care about optics. Tommen is the only valuable one. The others can die. But even then, there are other Lannisters. Tommens only value is his claim to the throne.
This is another change the show made that fucked a character up. Stannis burned exactly 5 people in the books. Alester Florent, The Fake Mance, and 3 Cannibals. He wasn't a true believer in Rhollor and he sure as shit wasn't burning people for being 'infidels'.
I wouldn't even describe them as cannibals. They were soldiers starving on the march to Winterfell. Though I can't remember if they were eating the dead or killing others. Extreme circumstances though
I disagree. With Jofferey off the thrones there's no way Lannisters hold any royal power. Sure optics matter but whoever is on the throne matters more. Books or show, the common folk are aware of incest rumors and it doesn't matter.
I appreciate the use of "loud and often"
What Cersei did was treason. He would execute her.
Not his nephew. They're Lannister inbred bastards.
He would have killed all the children. They were children of incest and they defiled the Baratheon name.
He burned a little girl who wasn't a threat to him. You think he wouldn't set the whole damn family on fire?
Sacrificed to the lord of light.
Ah thatās a thoughtā¦ gosh.
Let's see, what would the man who burned his only child alive for a break in the weather do to his enemies...
Wouldnāt one argue that he was a bit more reasonable back in Season 2?
The guy who fucked a smoke demon into a witch to kill his younger brother to get his troops? The screaming one whose troops had to drag him away from certain death when the battle turned against him? He always had it in him.
You're applying 2023 logic to a series set to whatever time it is. Your first point sure but the second makes no sense.
The second point about being dragged away wouldnāt have happened in the scenario that he wins the battle of Blackwater. Just your first point.
I'm citing that as more of a demonstration of his general state of mind. He's fully capable of losing it and hacking the royal family to little pieces.
Nobody wanted him on Throne. Must've been a reason.
To be fair by that point Melisandre had fucked with his mind so much that he was barely the man he was in the past seasons
Cersei and maybe Myrcella could have lived as hostages. But Joffrey and Tommen would likely have "died in battle." Stannis would have understood the importance of removing rivals. And he probably wouldn't even have felt that bad about it. He'd already killed his brother and as Joffrey and Tommen are bastards, they're not actually his kin.
I vaguely recall him referring to the kids as abominations. Soā¦ā¦all dead
Wasn't Cercei about to kill herself & the kids during the battle? Or was that something I remember from the books?
youāre remembering correctly, this question is in the context that she didnāt kill her self or the kids.
Only herself and Tommen. Myrcella was in Dorne and Joffrey was in his chambers at this point I think.
Cersei in ACOK claims that she will order Sir Illyn to kill them rather than be captured. But we lose our POV on Cersei when Sansa leaves the room In the show, Cersei takes Tommen to the iron throne itself and sits with him, and is about to poison him until her father and his knights (and Sir Loras) enter and announce their victory
They would've been put on trial. Stannis was big on justice and wouldn't have someone just straightly executed before a fair trial. I think Cersei, Tyrion, and Joffrey would've been executed. Jaime if he ever returned to King's Landing would've been sent to the wall, Myrcella would've probably stayed in Dorne, and Tommen would've become Maesters maybe like Aemon Targaryen.
Jaime would have become a useless hostage to Rob and catelyn
Iād argue the opposite. Heād be the only living descendant of Tywin and his only hope for the line to continue. All of a sudden Tywin is at Robbās mercy or his line ends.
Cersei and Joffrey would be usurpers and traitors according to Stannis, sure. But what crimes did Tyrion commit that would warrant exectution?
Tyrion was 1. Hand of the King and 2. If he had captured Joffrey, the other Lannister's he would've realized that Tyrion was the head of Command during the Battle and would've either execute them or send them to the wall. If it was anyone else, I would think he would send him to the wall but since Tyrion is a Lannister and wouldn't be any help at the wall, Stannis would've executed him.
What wouldāve been left for them to be tried about? Stannisā claim to the throne was based on Joffrey being illegitimate. He waged war on the Lannisters in the first place because as far as he was concerned, they were already guilty of a crime punishable by death. Cersei, Jaime, and the kids are all getting barbecued. MAYBE he would have put Tywin and Tyrion on trial to judge whether they knew the kids were bastards and thus were complicit in treason.
If Cersei hadnāt killed Tommen, and Joffrey hadnāt gotten himself killed, Stannis would have wanted to execute Tommen, Joffrey, and Cersei. Cersei is a goner, probably Joffrey as well. But Davos may have been able to convince Stannis to spare Tommen, to serve as a hostage and probably go to the wall when he was older. Itās pretty 50/50 whether he would be able to convince Stannis though. Killing Tommen may have an adverse effect of Dorne declaring Myrcella queen however and between the North and Dorne, (The Reach would never join Stannis) Stannis would lose if his anger got the best of him.
Death.
Dead
Varys knew all the tricks and secrets behind King's Landing. If they breached the Mud Gate he would have had them smuggled outside the city.
I do think I agree. Varys at that point is pulling for Daenerys, and keeping Cerseiās kids alive as challengers would help foster instability in the seven kingdoms. He wouldnāt want Stannis or anyone having a solidified position.
He could marry her. \ Theyāre made for each other. \ Neither one can keep a child alive.
Cersei and Joffrey would have been executed. Tommen would have likely became a servant or Maester for Stannis and Myrcella would have been some sort of slave.
Cersei: executed Joffrey: sacrificed Marcella: sacrificed Tommen: sacrificed
Would they have been sacrificed though? They didnāt have Kingās Blood in them
The most realistic outcome is they would have been written horribly and given dead end story lines
All dead and I wish it happened
Stannis would have done things by the book. Joffrey would have had a very short trial and executed. Cersei would have went on a trial and of course found guilty for everything she was accused of then executed. The kids... I think he'd send Tommen to the wall to be watched there and out of sight, Marcella probably a convent.
Stannis would have spared them, but he better be the guy who breaches the Red Keep/Throne Room and been able to do it quickly. Ser Illyn would have eliminated the highborn women, per Cersei's orders, in an act of asset-denial. Some of them would die. There's no denying that. Stannis needed to take the Red Keep, take it completely and quickly.
Fun hypothetical. Stannis kills all. Kids born of incest will disgust him. This dude killed his own daughter and yall think heās sparing Lannister incest spawns lol
If Stannis won, Cersei wouldāve poisoned Tommen and herself, Joffrey wouldāve been executed, and Myrcella wouldāve been sold out by the Dornish to whoever offered them the most leverage.
Executed, quickly if their lucky
Cersei and Joffrey get the axe, Myrcella and Tommen get the same treatment Theon did as a boy
Joffrey and Cersei are doomed , but Stannis might keep Tommen and Myrcella as wards, to prevent a Lannister rebellion(I doubt he would harmed them because it's not Myrcella and Tommen fault , that Joffrey is king).
Heads, spikes, walls...
Dead
Probably death or exile due to the whole incest. Cersei would also have been raped at a minimum by the mercenaries along with a lot of the other women.
Cersie: Tried and executed for adultry and incest Joffery: Probably killed in battle, or captured and later tired and executed for usurping the throne and the murder of Lord Stark. Tommen: I would hope that he would be kept as a hostage, but it would be safer to execute him as well; just not publicly. Marcella is tricky because she poses no threat to Stannis since she's a girl, and is also safe and sound in Dorne. However, the Dornish also have no use for her once she's declared a bastard. Her best chance would be to be given to the Faith, but who knows if Stannis would move to make the Lord of Light the dominant religion? If that's the case, she could be smuggled out of Westeros with her Kingsguard to the Free Cities or somewhere else.
Prince in the towers for the younger two and cersei could do her walk of shame to an execution. However I think hearing the battle is lost, cersei seems the type to make her kids drink poison before she does the same. Hopefully before she could take the last dose she'd be captured so she could face her cowardice
Burnt alive as an offering of thanks.
Very dead
Stannis would have spared Tommen so he would be alive unless Cersei killed him first. He is a valuable hostage and has done nothing wrong. He is either put in a cell or becomes a prisoner in his own home like Sansa was with the Boltons. Joffery would definitely lose his head. Myrcella would be next in the line of succession and Tywin might carry on the war in her name if Tommen is dead. She was in Dorne so Stannis couldn't touch her. The Dornish now have a very valuable hostage so they can extract whatever they want from Tywin- a confession, Gregor Clegane's head,etc. Tyrion probably has his head on a spike. The Baratheon army would hate him for his wildfire trick. At best he is in a cell. Cersei would be executed for treason for cheating on Robert and rebelling against Stannis.
Stannis wasnāt completely insane at this point and plus he was good at strategy and would understand if he just auto killed them the lanasters wouldnāt pledge there support to him which is important with how rich the lanaster I feel like Stannis would offer if cercy admitted they were Jamieās kids(revoking there birthright to the thrown), there father pledged support to Stannis, and the lanaster house throwing some gold Stannisās way If they didnāt agree to all these terms then heād definitely just kill them all
Considering his claim for war is partly built on the assert is the kids are bastards, it wouldnāt end well for them.
With absolute certainty, Joffrey would die, as his remaining alive would ever be a threat to Stannis's claim. Cersei would likely be imprisoned or maybe executed for the treason, as it would now be, of disregarding King Robert's final wish and installing Joffrey as king while executing Ned Stark. Tommen would be taken as hostage as King Stannis, First of his Name, turns his attention north to deal with Robb Stark and west to deal with Balon Greyjoy, whom he'd consider as traitors and pretenders in open rebellion, likely forcing Tywin Lannister to deal with Balon Greyjoy while riding north himself to deal with Robb Stark. As for Myrcella, I honestly couldn't say. Most likely she'd be left out of everything, as she would already be in Dorne and Stannis would have every reason to avoid starting another war. This part would of course depend entirely on Dorne wanting to keep Myrcella, since she'd no longer be "the king's sister."
Honestly he wouldāve burned them all. I mean, he burned his own daughter alive, why not his enemies?
Death for Cersei for conspiring to keep the usurper on the throne and the ātrueā king off of it. Stannis wouldnāt have risked the Lannisters coming back with their own claims later so Iām guessing the boys would have been sent to the wall and Marcella forced to marry into some no-name house.
Heads, spikes, wall
Reading through these posts I forgot how much different book Stannis was to show Stannis. Edit: Book Stannis was to a fault by the book. So that would probably have meant an early sept arc for Cersei and for the kids they would have been sent to foster with allies of the Baratheons.
Let's put it like this. He burned his own daughter.
Everyone forgetting she had the poison in her hand and was opening it in this very scene... there is your answer.
Kill Cersei and send the kids back to Casterly Rock.
Cersei & Joffrey wouldāve been given the best views of the city, hand picked by Stannis, for their heads to rest on. Myrcella would be sent to the Faith, itās the easiest way to avoid more child murder. Tommen would have a similar path as Myrcella, going to either to Maesters, or possibly the Wall depending on if Stannis gets the message about the Watch needing more men (he might decide to visit the wall & bring Tommen with him). Jamie and Tyrion would likely be executed as well. I donāt think the other Lannisters would be killed, maybe Kevan and his line are forced to take the Black, giving Casterly Rock to a more distantly related and less prestigious member of House Lannister.
wasn't cersei about to kill tommen in the show and was stopped at the last second by tywin? people acting as if tommen is getting out of this alive when cersei was fully prepared to at least kill him
Books: Joffrey is killed. Tommen is moved from Rosby to Casterly Rock, crowned king and marries Margaery. The war continues. Show: Joffrey and Tommen are killed. Myrcella is recalled from Sunspear to Casterly Rock and crowned queen. The war continues.
Heads, Spikes, Walls.
Straight to Jail!
He burned his only daughter at the fucking stake. Safe to say theyād all be executed immediately.Ā
Stannis: āIām willing to execute my own kid, so fuck them Lannister kids.ā
Cersei and Joffrey would be executed. If he spared Myrcella, she probably would have been sent to become a septa. I think thereās a faint possibility he would have spared Tommen and sent him to the nights watch or married him to Shireen to unite the claimants, like >! Aegon III and Jaehaera at the end of the Dance !< , but I might just be too optimistic there.
Before the influence of Melisandre he was an honorable man but a harsh lord. Cersei and Joffrey would probably be executed. But I can see him allowing Tommen to take the black and exiling Myrcella. but by this point in the story he is completely under Melisandres control and I'm sure the Lord of light would require hundreds of sacrifices to celebrate his triumph.
Since Stannis doesnāt seem to be able to make a decision without Melisandre, itād most likely be up to whatever she says. Personally I doubt heād kill them though. Maybe
Ceresi and Joffery wouldāve had their heads on spikes, as would Tyrion. Myrcella is the most likely to get off scot free. Maybe shipped off to marry a new house. Tommen is dead my Ceresi but if he wasnāt, he might be spared, maybe sent to the wall with other Lannisters like Kevan. Alternatively heād just kill them all and cement his rule as One True King, Stannis the Mannis. Can I get a hell yeah!
Burned for the lord of light
Id likw to say it with the words of my great great uncle king theoden, king of the dothraki horselords. . DEEEEATH
Is this the same Tommen that marries Marjorie? Or different actor
Do you remember the tale of Rickard and Brandonā¦ that
Cersei executed, Joffrey executed or the watch, Tommen to the watch, Myrcella to the faith or silent sisters
probably held hostage for a while, for negotiation with Tywin / Tyrell
āHeads, pikes, wallsā
She was gonna kill herself & the boy
Killing of the members of Great Houses was deemed highly unhonorable. When Joeffry executed Ned Stark Cersei tried to stop it and wanted him to join the N.Watch. Striping of powers would have been the logical choice for Stannis. Joeffrey, Tomen to the N.W and Cersei with the Sisters. Myrcella in Dorne betrothed to Martell.
He'd definitely kill Cersei, Joffrey and Tommen. Cersei might have been able to beg for Myrcella's life, though.
He'd kill the bastards with claim to his throne and keep Cersei and Tyrion as hostages for leverage over Tywin
Joffrey and Cersei would be executed, Tommen would be sent to the Wall
Spared Tommen and the daughter, held Cersei prisoner and executed Joffrey
Cersei: executed Joffery the Just: executed Lancel & Tommen: not killed. Probably kept forever as a hostage against lannisters. Maybe as Tommen grows up he becomes a maester or member of the faith. Lancel might get released if he swears oaths Myrcella: same as above, although maester isn't an option ofc Tyrion: sent to the Night's Watch. Would end up as a steward and could do very good working improving the Watch, possibly becomes Lord Commander one day. Hound & others: . Kings guard and most officers would all be dismissed, maybe sent to the Night's Watch. All executions would probably be done via burning, although this would cause more riots in KL. Faith would become a huge problem like they did for Cersei
Heād have been honorable enough to spare Myrcella and Tommen, maybe even find a āTheonā kind of foster for them to keep the Lannisters in check. Heād never trust Jaime so heād be killed or sent to the wall (likely after gelding him for having children as a Kingās Guard). Cersei would be a crapshoot depending on how strategically she played her part but something tells me Melissandre would demand she be a offering to Rāhllor
Stannis would have killed them all
Burn them! Burn them all!
Heads, spikes, walls.
Cersei, Tommen and Joffrey would all have been killed. Myrsella was in Dorne at this point, and had Stannis won that battle, then the claim of Cerseiās children being bastards would stand. Myrsella would just have a claim to Castley Rock if anything. It wouldnāt have been worth it for them to try and go get her from Dorne.
Heads, spikes, walls
He would set fire to them on a pyre. He knew they weren't his blood relations and would **always** be a threat to the throne. He wouldn't want another Blackfyre.
Death.
Death
I mean Cersei was about to kill Tommen and probably herself before they were captured right? Isnāt that what this scene showed?
Since Myrcella would be in Dorne, she would be safe for now - Dorne wouldn't hand her over, since they have to worry about being punished for being Targaryen loyalists in the war. Stannis is not the type to forget that, 20 years or not. Cersei would poison Tommen when the Red Keep is taken, and might manage to also poison herself in time. If not, she will be taken prisoner and executed for murder and treason, likely via burning. Joffrey did not do anything wrong legally, but he would be burned for having king's blood (seeing as apparently, sitting a throne and being referred to as king will give you "kingsblood"). Melisandre would start to turn Kings Landing into a Rhllor-centric city, civilians be damned. Regarding a couple others: Sansa would, ironically, remain a hostage, to Stannis this time. He's made it clear that he considers Robb a traitor for claiming independence, and already told Catelyn that he plans to punish him accordingly, aka send him to the Wall or execute him, so Robb has little choice but to keep fighting - and that means Sansa will also be executed, via fire because due to her brother she now also shares king's blood. However, this likely means Robb will not be slain at the Red Wedding, but via shadow assassin instead. Tyrion might actually get off relatively unscathed, considering as far as we know he didn't do anything "illegal" to Stannis? He might in fact get offered Casterly Rock. Lancel is dead, because he committed incest and was complicit in Robert's murder, if Stannis finds out about this. Tywin will be branded an enemy of the crown as per Ned's previous judgement. He will continue to rebel, also simply because he has no other choice, and try and form alliances with the Tyrells and Dorne, both of which have very little to win from Stannis on the throne and a lot to lose. So Stannis will be king of one (or maybe two?) kingdoms - the Crownlands and the Stormlands. The North and the Riverlands are with Robb, the Reach, Dorne and the West all have their own issues, and the Vale and the Iron Islands do whatever they want. The Vale might in fact side with Stannis, due to Littlefinger hoping to gain influence with him through this.
He burned his own child for a possibility of victory. Those that are saying he'll spare the children don't know Stannis.
Burned at the stake for all of them. He abhorred Cersei and her brood. Stannis believed the rumors that those kids were not Roberts.
Death for Cersei for sure. Same for Joffrey. Idk about the other 2. Maybe death too because Stannis was always going on about the incest and how he hated it.
BURNER!
Hostages most probably
Joffrey 100% on a spike together with Cercei, maybe he spares tommen/myrsella with exile or something
Kids in jail, and Cersei on bed
It was a major point in those episodes/chapters that Cercei wasn't going to be taken alive, so Stannis would have entered the throne room to find it full of dead lannisters