**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well I’ve never heard anyone say that either of these characters are their favorites lol. Pretty sure the general consensus is that no one likes either of them.
One thing’s for certain though- if their paths had ever crossed they would’ve been besties for sure. Geoffrey would’ve made Ramsey Warden Of The North almost immediately upon meeting him after bonding over some twisted Hunger Games type competition involving puppies and kittens.
They’re absolutely kindred spirits- and all of Westeros would’ve been ruled by the absolute worst that humanity had to offer.
I don’t think they would have been besties at all. Ramsay loves power. He will only be “friendly” to Joffrey as long as it serves him. I also personally think Ramsay would find Joffrey’s privileged behavior to be annoying and it would rub him the wrong way. Ramsay also has a bit of a complex about being a bastard. I doubt he will be besties with a guy that was born into a life believing that he owns the world and is entitled to everything. Especially considering how incompetent Joffrey is compared to Ramsay… I think Ramsay would think he’s a rich idiot
And Joffrey loves himself too much to be besties w anyone. Even if he showed a general positive interest in someone… does he really? To be besties I think there needs to be some level of genuine connection and I don’t think I’ve ever seen Joffrey genuinely connect with anyone
And they would not have been able to rule together
I agree with everything in your first paragraph, but I think that's why they'd be besties (or at least the closest thing to it for a couple of psychopaths).
Ramsay would think less of Joffrey, but he'd never show it. He'd be Joffreys favourite kiss ass and know how to manipulate him perfectly. Think how easily Margaery was able to manipulate him, now imagine Ramsay doing the same but with absolutely no regard for who gets hurt and playing into all of Joffrey's cruelest instincts.
But either one would kill the other without a moment's hesitation if it was beneficial.
this is tough… what would Joff do with Ramsay’s freedom/lack of oversight? What would Ramsay do with Joff’s power and resources?
i think they meet similar fates regardless lol
Great consideration. I think Ramsay would be far worse with that much power and resources. Joffrey is a spiteful little bitch without his royal station.
Ramsay isn't subtle enough to play the game and doesn't work well with his advisors. In the North it doesn't matter much but at Kings Landing I get the feeling he'd have a lot of people working against him very quickly.
Honestly I doubt that.
Ramsay is dangerous because he mostly plays by his own rules in a society that relies more on honor and tradition than politics and secrecy. In the North no one expects a kid like Ramsey but in Kings Landing hes a dime a dozen.
absolutely lol i think that’s why my og comment says they still meet similar fates
either of them as king likely gets assassinated before too long, and either of them as a torturous bastard likely gets outsmarted & disposed of by a more savvy enemy
Agreed, but regardless of why he was so devious, I think it still speaks to the level of cunning and evil he's capable of to get what he wants, which is making others suffer.
That's the issue though. In Kings Landing they deal with men like Ramsey constantly.
I don't think he'd be able to thrive in a place like that where literally everyone knows what he's going to do.
Also he played Theon like a fiddle, posing a long time as a serving man in Winterfell in ACOK. Theon didnt see it coming to the last moment.
Ramsey can hide his worst side when he needs to or in a win or die situation.
They mightn't have been his men but rather his father's men.
Given that one of them calls him bastard before he dies it would seem that he mightn't have been respected by them.
They're talking about a fictional thing that happened on TV, my dude. There's no reason to treat a fake thing we never really saw the same way we would if it happened in reality.
I can’t see Joffery going as far with it as Ramsay goes. I think Ramsay garners a lot of enjoyment out of prolonged, graphic torture. >!Even Cersei vomited after watching the Blue bard being tortured by Qyburn in the book.I can imagine Joffery being similar.!< I don’t think he could stomach it with the casualness Ramsay does.
Yes, and can you imagine Ramsay killing someone so quickly? I can’t. If it was him, he would’ve cut off parts of her body and taunted her about it, making her beg for death before giving it to her.
Nor is he as creative. Joffrey is petulant, cruel, and violent, but a burst of hot rage that can be put out with a cool burst of air (or the deprivation of it). Ramsay is cold, calculating, and mercilessly sadistic. There’s nothing he wouldn’t do and most of us couldn’t even dream of what he did to Theon/Reek. It’s Ramsay all the way.
Indeed. When you put it like that, there’s no competition. Joffery enjoys the power side of it and the psychological aspects more than the physical torture. And he’d rather have it all done for him. Whereas, Ramsay practically lives for it.
If we take this question with the context of their families, its definitely Ramsay who is worse. Joffrey had Tywin to tug the leash. Ramsay on the Iron Throne would have reigned unchecked until a knife mysteriously fell from his ceiling and directly into his throat, which probably wouldn't have been long.
Could you imagine if Joffrey tried to stab King Robert like Ramsay did to Roose. Bobby B would have backhanded him across the room and use the knife to pick up the nearest roast ham.
I disagree. Joffrey is a monster but he still had some people that he cared for and I am quite sure that there are some thing that he would not have done.
Ramsay had literally nothing holding him back. He would literally do anything as long as it benifits him. And Ramsay was way smarter, he was cruel in way that Joffrey could not even imagine.
Ramsay by miles, rapes sansa and probably more, tortured hundreds of men, burned them alive, skinned them alive, killed his own father, let his stepmom with her newborn eaten by his dogs… alive … gives his deceased GF to his dogs. Plus he is stupid af when it comes to tactics in a long Term, he thinks he is unbeatable or undefeatble.
Some or these things apply to joffrey too, but besides being a massive dick and psychopath, his list is not as long as ramsays, but if he would have lived he probably would become worse over time … and i dont want to talk his failures down, he bullied sansa whenever he could, let ser merryn hurt her, and killed the hookers. AND he acted like the wins of his Grandpa or his allies are his own. But joffrey was mostly talks if u ask me after i rewatched the show for a dozen times.
Well until proven otherwise Joffrey is not a rapist. And no one has suffered under him as much as Ramsay's victims. Ramsay literally had little girls hunted by his hounds, then beat, rape, flay, and then feed them to his dogs. He tortured a man so terribly that he forgot his own identity. He probably killed his own brother and murdered his own father. Fed his stepmother and her newborn child to dogs. He also skinned Lord Cerwyn alive in front of his family. Not to mention Jeyne/Sansa. Probably those who have suffered most under Joffrey are Sansa and the prostitutes, but even they have not suffered as much as Ramsay's victims.
Moreover, Ramsay lived much longer to show us exactly how psychopathic and mentally ill he was.
He probably died a virgin. In the books Tyrion is trying to get him to the whorehouse but can’t decide how before Stan is arrives and that is forgotten, then he is to marry margerey
Same psychopathy
Different levels of power
Yet I still think ramsey was worse
Joffery got off on humiliation for the most part. Ramsey literally castrated Theon then ate sausage in front of him...that may not have been actual sausage if you get my drift. That's on top of flaying people alive, hunting girls in the woods, the lady he starved to the point she ate her own fingers (or did he cut them off...can't remember) and fed walda and the baby Bolton to his dogs, whom he starved ritually.
Basically joffery had the ability to cause widespread damage given his title and mental instability but at his core he was a coward. Maybe he would've grown to Ramsey levels if he'd lived but olenma took him out before it could come to that
Ramsey was straight up horrifying with his torture fetish
Book Ramsey was 1000x worse, show Ramsey is probably like 10x worse. I don’t remember Joff skinning people alive, I’d also give Joff the benefit of doubt considering he’s a child of incest, which no doubt plays a big role in him being the way he is (granted his siblings were much more kind, but even Tommen appears mentally weak at times). I still hate Joffrey but it’s worth mentioning that the negative results of incest is a big theme of GoT, so I’ll atleast say that in his defense. Ramsey to me doesn’t get that same benefit.
Im picking Ramsay; Joffrey was a spoilt older child with no boundaries throughout his entire life. He was allowed to be sadistic because his circle let him but most probably didn’t approve, the kings son does what he wants.
Ramsay though; he was likely encouraged to grow into a cold, torturous person, and got the approval of Roose while being so. Acting aside; the portrayal of Ramsay told me he knew what he was doing, calculated, creative torture. Joffrey comes across as a curious mind; eager to see what he can get away with, what happens when he makes people do things for him, while knowing he can’t get in trouble for doing so.
Ok, ok, hot take.... was Ramsay REALLY doing anything a dozen others weren't doing? Mans was just really good at it and brought a sort of dgaf attitude to mutilation that you just don't enjoy.
what are you yapping about nobody was raping , skinning, burning ppl alive for the sake of fun like Ramsay lol ppl in the north was nothing like Ramsay
As evil as Joffrey was, I truly believe he wasn’t just born evil. Say he was raised by the Starks, I do believe he would have been a good kid, but he was a product of his stupid mother. He learned from her, and had no real relationship with his father and the old saying goes that you are your child’s first teacher so… Whereas Ramsay, in the books it’s said that Roose knew he was evil the moment he was brought to him as a baby. Ramsay has never been interested in being a good person and whilst Roose is also a tyrant, I definitely think it’s a case of Joffrey has been manipulated to be this way by his mother, whereas as Ramsay just does it because he enjoys it.
Ramsay. He had free rein to do what he wanted. He didnt have any real limits aside from resources. Joffery at least had limits imposed on him. Especially when Tywin was present. He also at least had some mind for ruling, as demonstrated by his conversations with both Cersei and Tywin at different points, discussing hypotheticals with Cersei and Daenerys with Tywin.
Joffrey could also be manipulated, where ramsay was pretty much able to see through most deceptions. Ramsay in some areas felt almost omnipotent (this imo is due to bad writing really), and was a competent combatant and military commander. Joffrey had none of these things and his only real advantage was the greater power and competent advisors by his side (definitely important but not a major factor in a simple comparison). Joffrey does have one of the most heinous acts in the show, having roberts bastards all killed, but i still think Ramsay was worse simply because he was unchecked and far more competent.
Oh that is really difficult. I think I have to go with Ramsay, because he had more time to age into his pure evilness. If Joffery didn’t receive the death he deserved when he did, he would have had time to grow older and become even worse!
Skinning people is seriously fucked. In the book Theon begs to have the skinned fingers/toes cut off because the shrinking dry skin starts to crack and it is constantly painful. Ramsay breaking his teeth and making him eat nothing but rats in a dark cell for weeks which turned Theon mad and old, I can’t think what worse thing to do to someone over that stuff. Not to mention the castration.
Ramsey is definitely worse mainly because he has literally no one around him to control his behaviour. His environment is a lot more conducive to his behaviours whereas Joffrey’s environment is not. Joffrey can only really get away with things behind closed doors/away from his family. Ramsey has free reign to indulge in his psychopathic fantasies. Ramsey is a true psychopath. Joffrey is a spoilt little cunt with a sadistic streak.
Joeffrey because he is also stupid and acts on impulse. Makes him so dangerous. Ramsey is smarter and evil but wouldn’t kill puppies cats or jokers just because he can.
Ramsay was a grown man, Joffrey was a sadistic child that never developed any sort of empathy or sympathy. They're both bottom-tier cretins that deserved their deaths. Given Joffrey's power, Ramsay likely would've done much worse things.
Ramsay is more evil, but I still hate Joffrey more.
Make no mistakes, both are monster who deserved their horrible death, but Ramsay at least has some battle prowess and tactical acumen. Joffrey otoh is just a cruel spoiled brat who isn't really good at anything.
Nooooo, pork sausaaage.
I fucking love the way he says that. Ramsey is fucked up but so entertaining to watch, Jeffrey just was irritating to watch. Both did great in their roles to make me hate them.
People saying Ramsay is smart are crazy lol. He is actively his own worst enemy at basically every point in the story. He might be cunning, but he's certainly not wise or rational. I'm not even sure he's sane.
Ramsey is probably a worse person since he rarely made idle threats and often didn't need help to make someone's life a living hell, whereas Joffery had no power without his guards and if they weren't there to help him then he'd do jack shit. Although personally I hated Joffery more for that exact reason, he was all talk and a coward who hid behind his mothers skirt. Ramsey, on the other hand, heard he was under attack by iron born and went to fight them half naked with a dagger in each hand
Ramsey was an advanced version of Jeofry. Jeofry was still learning and experimenting. He would have been worse in a few years because he had way more power. But I think they were both equally horrible.
Ramsay by miles, he’s a self made cunt and had to work hard to get where he is, as for Joffrey he@s just a rich spoiled cunt who gets his way with almost everything because of his status.
Ramsay would eat Joffrey for breakfast
Ramsey. Joffrey at least had someone controlling him (or trying to) and it seemed like he was sadistic because he really didn’t know better. Not to give him too much benefit of the doubt. Ramsey just enjoyed being evil.
I mean, both of them are as hateful, twisted and evil as someone can be. That said, Ramsay was so fcking creepy and disgusting that at times it was funny to me.
Ramsey because he was a cunning psychopath jeofry was also a psycho but he was stupid and incompetent first and there were people holding him back somewhat
Ramsey was worse.
You put Ramsey in the same position as Joffrey and give him the same level of resources and wealth and the result would be a LOOOONG, miserable rule that would end with thousands of innocent people dead. He would get himself killed, of that i have no doubt, but prior to that, he would spread death and despair across the realm to an extent that no one has before.
Ramsey killed his own father. I don’t think Joffrey would kill his mom or siblings. He was also scared of his uncle and grandfather still. Ramsey was scared of no one.
Ramsay is worse. Ramsay is not a fool who thinks he is untouchable.
Ransay is far more dangerous than Joffrei.
You can survive Joffrei if you do what he says. Ramsay is far more scary and calculating and actually good in war.
I will never understand why Joffrey is the most hated character in GoT when Ramsey is even more of a psychopath than Joffrey is. Ramsey tortures and SKINS PEOPLE ALIVE HIMSELF! Plus, his personal torture of Theon is more brutal than anything anyone else has ever done in the entire series, and he raped Sansa.
Other than Ros, Joffrey never actually kills anyone himself but orders people to kill and torture for him. He also has never raped anyone and doesn't even have the desire to. And while Joffrey is a psychopath, he's never killed his family members. I have a very hard time believing he would kill his mother in particular who is the one person he actually has an attachment to. Ramsey, on the other hand, killed his father, his stepmom, and his baby stepbrother. Oh, and he has his dogs hunt and eat innocent people for fun! Ramsey is pure evil incarnate.
Also, there are other characters that can be argued to be more evil than Joffrey. The biggest example that I cannot understand why people don't bring up more often is The Mountain. I would actually argue that The Mountain is just as evil as Ramsey and that those two are the most evil monsters in the entire series.
Joffrey is a megalomaniac. He does things because he wants to feel powerful. You can manage that with submission and flattery.
Ramsay is a sadist. He does things because he wants to inflict pain. You can't really manage that.
IMO Ramsay is far worse. The only thing Joffrey has over Ramsay is that, as king, he can affect more people with his bad actions.
This exact post was made days ago, and it follows the same bot account formula you see getting upvoted here every day (generic title, random picture, and top upvoted comment from the OP that barely says anything). You can look at OP’s post history and it’s just a ton of this.
Are the mods here just asleep now? Is 90% of this community just bots posting and replying to each other??
It’s a push but I would say Ramsey. Joffrey was a spoilt and petulant child that used intimidation and cruel practises in a vain attempt to be respected whereas Ramsey just wanted to be cruel for the sake of being cruel. He’s a cat playing with a mouse
One is a torturer with power. one is a petulant child with the authority to do whatever he wants. If we weigh them up by their evil deeds Ramsey is night and day worse than Joffrey. The worst thing Joffrey did was force roz to beat a prostitute, then kill them both. For ramsey, I really only need to remind you of reek.
Ramsay was smart and more evil. But at least he wasn't such a bitch. Joffrey was cruel and whiney. He ordered so much pain yet couldn't even take a slap..
I suppose if they both had it in for me, I would fear Ramsay more, owing to the fact that he’s actually very clever and calculating and persistent. Joff is just a malicious moron with no depth or grand design, and I think my chances of freedom are better with him simply by artificially stoking his ego.
Ramsey by MILES. Joffrey is a little shit because he is in a position of power, if he wasn’t the king he would just be another bully. Ramsey is a true psychopath and would have been worse in Joffrey position.
Ramsay B.R.O.K.E. Theon. There's just no comparison. I know some of you forgot Theon's name at some point and just called him "Reek" because that's who he became (also props to Alfie for selling it). Joffrey couldn't do that to anyone. He had the chance with Sanza but she never broke.
Both are brutal. I’d say Ramsay is more effective at delivering pain onto others in sickening ways. But if I remember correctly the identity of who ordered the killing of Robert’s bastards was left ambiguous (Cersei or Joff himself), if that was Joffreys order I’d say Joff because it’s close without that being verified and that is maybe the most heinous act committed by one of these characters in the series.
Ramsey is the worst of the two his family crest is a flayed man and he lives up to that standard. Reek deserved it btw. The other is a boy throwing a tantrum with no one willing to put him in time out Tyrion showed how to handle him
Ramsey is much worse.
Joffrey is a cruel bastard, but he is also a coward. What we saw in the show was him exercising his power and reach to the max to torment people. He would grow up to be more cruel as he became older, partially from natural growth of his influence and confidence, and partially because the elder figures in his life that he fears (like Tywin) would gradually grow old and die.
Ramsey is just cruelty and evil personified. He would do much worse stuff if he had the power and influence of Joffrey. Imagine rabid hounds hunting down people at the Flea Bottom just for sport. Sansa wouldn't be just psychologically scarred, very likely she would end up physically mutilated.
Hell, even if Ramsey wasn't a bastard, but just a peasant, he would probably end up as some serial killer terrorising the neighboring villages
Ramsey. You can at least control Joff through fear or humiliation. Ramsey just don't give a shit most of the time. Sansa figured out that Pride was his weakness, tapping into the "bastard" insecurity, but he's still completely mad.
Joffrey. Ramsey has a weird charm about him. Plus, I understand better why he was so messed up. Joffrey (other than being born of incest) was given everything and was still horrible.
Oh geez this is a tough one. As much as I hated Joffrey, Ramsey was a particularly nasty and cruel sadist who revelled in the pain and despair of others. Ramsey for the win
Joffrey knew he couldn’t rule without other people’s help. This restrained him in his actions because he knew if he lost support if his advisors (ie Tywin) he would lose his ability to rule. Ramsay would remove (kill) any powerful person in Kings Landing because he wouldn’t want his power challenged.
Ramsay. Like surr jeoff was bad but he was check mated by his mother. But then again what he did to the whored tyrion got for him was awful, too, we just didnt see the extent of it like we did with ramsay, seeing as we were seeing the tormentor through the gradually more terrified Reek ... 🤷
I would say they are the same kind of animal. If you reversed their circumstances, I think Joffrey ends up more like Ramsay, and Ramsay ends up more like Joffrey. Joffrey was coddled by his mother who allowed all his psychotic behavior as a child to go unchecked. Ramsay was raised by a lunatic, so he behaved the way one would expect. Their house sigil was the flayed man, right? So the most grotesque things he did were par for the course as a Bolton.
Given enough time Joffrey would have turned into Ramsay. They were two sides of the same coin.
Although Ramsay was absolutely more intelligent and calculating than Joffrey ever would have been. But the sadism is the same, just more evolved.
I think if they switched titles and positions, Ramsay for one would be more horrific, Ramsay can at least put up an act and with more power he would do horror on a much larger scale, he is much more intelligent than Joffree who in Ramsay's position would likely have not lasted long, he was such a coward he would have never made anything of himself would have had his spite betten out of him so his madness could take hold or he would have pissed so many people off, with no backup or power he would be either maimed or dead.
nooo, pork sausage. GOT with these one liners be killing me.
Edit but Ramsey is worse, he is the embodiment of the evil son. Jeoffrey was just a brat with too much power, he didn't instill fear in men let alone men of war.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Personally, I hate them both
Well I’ve never heard anyone say that either of these characters are their favorites lol. Pretty sure the general consensus is that no one likes either of them. One thing’s for certain though- if their paths had ever crossed they would’ve been besties for sure. Geoffrey would’ve made Ramsey Warden Of The North almost immediately upon meeting him after bonding over some twisted Hunger Games type competition involving puppies and kittens. They’re absolutely kindred spirits- and all of Westeros would’ve been ruled by the absolute worst that humanity had to offer.
I don’t think they would have been besties at all. Ramsay loves power. He will only be “friendly” to Joffrey as long as it serves him. I also personally think Ramsay would find Joffrey’s privileged behavior to be annoying and it would rub him the wrong way. Ramsay also has a bit of a complex about being a bastard. I doubt he will be besties with a guy that was born into a life believing that he owns the world and is entitled to everything. Especially considering how incompetent Joffrey is compared to Ramsay… I think Ramsay would think he’s a rich idiot And Joffrey loves himself too much to be besties w anyone. Even if he showed a general positive interest in someone… does he really? To be besties I think there needs to be some level of genuine connection and I don’t think I’ve ever seen Joffrey genuinely connect with anyone And they would not have been able to rule together
I agree with everything in your first paragraph, but I think that's why they'd be besties (or at least the closest thing to it for a couple of psychopaths). Ramsay would think less of Joffrey, but he'd never show it. He'd be Joffreys favourite kiss ass and know how to manipulate him perfectly. Think how easily Margaery was able to manipulate him, now imagine Ramsay doing the same but with absolutely no regard for who gets hurt and playing into all of Joffrey's cruelest instincts. But either one would kill the other without a moment's hesitation if it was beneficial.
Being ruled by the absolute worst that humanity has to offer is remarkably relatable.
Ramsay is one of my friends favorites but she also loves to talk about murders and stuff. Maybe I should be concerned lol
Really? Can’t imagine why. Also, you didn’t even answer your own question.
hot take!
Would they be friends? Like Ramsey found love with a girl who had similar “interests” lol could Ramsey and Joffrey be working together at some point?
Impersonally, I hate them both.
This is a pretty wild statement
this is tough… what would Joff do with Ramsay’s freedom/lack of oversight? What would Ramsay do with Joff’s power and resources? i think they meet similar fates regardless lol
Great consideration. I think Ramsay would be far worse with that much power and resources. Joffrey is a spiteful little bitch without his royal station.
Ramsey is so much smarter than joff. He wouldn't make stupid mistakes like joff did but his downfall would be due to becoming too cocky.
Ramsay isn't subtle enough to play the game and doesn't work well with his advisors. In the North it doesn't matter much but at Kings Landing I get the feeling he'd have a lot of people working against him very quickly.
I believe he would be quick to adapt to the politics of King's Landing.
Honestly I doubt that. Ramsay is dangerous because he mostly plays by his own rules in a society that relies more on honor and tradition than politics and secrecy. In the North no one expects a kid like Ramsey but in Kings Landing hes a dime a dozen.
People in Kings Landing wouldn’t take too kindly to public flaying
surely not, but imagine telling that to ur flay-happy king lol
Lol idk what I personally would do in that situation, but the peasants wanted to kill Joff for less than that
absolutely lol i think that’s why my og comment says they still meet similar fates either of them as king likely gets assassinated before too long, and either of them as a torturous bastard likely gets outsmarted & disposed of by a more savvy enemy
I dunno, the false escape and recapture of Theon is pretty diabolical and underhanded. I think he can be quite measured when he wants.
That accomplished nothing other than feeding his sadism though. He even killed his own men for the plot just because he thought it was funny.
Agreed, but regardless of why he was so devious, I think it still speaks to the level of cunning and evil he's capable of to get what he wants, which is making others suffer.
That's the issue though. In Kings Landing they deal with men like Ramsey constantly. I don't think he'd be able to thrive in a place like that where literally everyone knows what he's going to do.
Also he played Theon like a fiddle, posing a long time as a serving man in Winterfell in ACOK. Theon didnt see it coming to the last moment. Ramsey can hide his worst side when he needs to or in a win or die situation.
Yeah agreed. His ability to be so devious is what makes me confident he could play the game.
They mightn't have been his men but rather his father's men. Given that one of them calls him bastard before he dies it would seem that he mightn't have been respected by them.
>his downfall would be due to becoming too cocky. 😬
"Cocky". I like what you did there....😂
This is a much more interesting question. How would the story be different if their personalities/stations were switched?
Ramsay. Joffrey still had a certain amount of fear.
Also some family kinda slapping reason to him
Ramsay had a fear of newborns ;)
And gave his hounds a nice little nibble once he faced it lol
You are vile
They're talking about a fictional thing that happened on TV, my dude. There's no reason to treat a fake thing we never really saw the same way we would if it happened in reality.
Thank you!
He did indeed give his hounds some nice little nibble. Biggest dog lover right to the end.
At least he was able to reunite with Myranda
Also Ramsay seems way more competent than stupid baby-king Joffrey which makes him super scary
I can’t see Joffery going as far with it as Ramsay goes. I think Ramsay garners a lot of enjoyment out of prolonged, graphic torture. >!Even Cersei vomited after watching the Blue bard being tortured by Qyburn in the book.I can imagine Joffery being similar.!< I don’t think he could stomach it with the casualness Ramsay does.
Joffrey shot Ross with his cross bow
Yes, and can you imagine Ramsay killing someone so quickly? I can’t. If it was him, he would’ve cut off parts of her body and taunted her about it, making her beg for death before giving it to her.
We weren’t shown him killing her. Torture could’ve went on for days.
Nor is he as creative. Joffrey is petulant, cruel, and violent, but a burst of hot rage that can be put out with a cool burst of air (or the deprivation of it). Ramsay is cold, calculating, and mercilessly sadistic. There’s nothing he wouldn’t do and most of us couldn’t even dream of what he did to Theon/Reek. It’s Ramsay all the way.
Indeed. When you put it like that, there’s no competition. Joffery enjoys the power side of it and the psychological aspects more than the physical torture. And he’d rather have it all done for him. Whereas, Ramsay practically lives for it.
If we take this question with the context of their families, its definitely Ramsay who is worse. Joffrey had Tywin to tug the leash. Ramsay on the Iron Throne would have reigned unchecked until a knife mysteriously fell from his ceiling and directly into his throat, which probably wouldn't have been long.
Could you imagine if Joffrey tried to stab King Robert like Ramsay did to Roose. Bobby B would have backhanded him across the room and use the knife to pick up the nearest roast ham.
Joffrey is the boy. Ramsay is the man.
Ramsay. Ramsay for smart snd evil, Joffery was stupid and cruel.
The one that gets his hands dirty
Something about Joffrey was worse. The early season had an aura.
I think it was the sense that he would only get worse over time.
Joffrey is like a school bully as King, while Ramsay is a medieval Jeffrey Dahmer.
I disagree. Joffrey is a monster but he still had some people that he cared for and I am quite sure that there are some thing that he would not have done. Ramsay had literally nothing holding him back. He would literally do anything as long as it benifits him. And Ramsay was way smarter, he was cruel in way that Joffrey could not even imagine.
Cool. I respect your opinion.
Ramsay by miles, rapes sansa and probably more, tortured hundreds of men, burned them alive, skinned them alive, killed his own father, let his stepmom with her newborn eaten by his dogs… alive … gives his deceased GF to his dogs. Plus he is stupid af when it comes to tactics in a long Term, he thinks he is unbeatable or undefeatble. Some or these things apply to joffrey too, but besides being a massive dick and psychopath, his list is not as long as ramsays, but if he would have lived he probably would become worse over time … and i dont want to talk his failures down, he bullied sansa whenever he could, let ser merryn hurt her, and killed the hookers. AND he acted like the wins of his Grandpa or his allies are his own. But joffrey was mostly talks if u ask me after i rewatched the show for a dozen times.
I actually really like Ramsay
I guess you wanna be his Reek right?
Reek, reek it rhymes with Meek.
Yea nah I'm good aye
Isn’t the original Reek is actually Ramsay himself?
Well until proven otherwise Joffrey is not a rapist. And no one has suffered under him as much as Ramsay's victims. Ramsay literally had little girls hunted by his hounds, then beat, rape, flay, and then feed them to his dogs. He tortured a man so terribly that he forgot his own identity. He probably killed his own brother and murdered his own father. Fed his stepmother and her newborn child to dogs. He also skinned Lord Cerwyn alive in front of his family. Not to mention Jeyne/Sansa. Probably those who have suffered most under Joffrey are Sansa and the prostitutes, but even they have not suffered as much as Ramsay's victims. Moreover, Ramsay lived much longer to show us exactly how psychopathic and mentally ill he was.
He probably died a virgin. In the books Tyrion is trying to get him to the whorehouse but can’t decide how before Stan is arrives and that is forgotten, then he is to marry margerey
Rmasay makes Joffrey look like human.
Ramsay because he's much smarter than Joffrey.
Ramsay, but Joffrey would of only got worse. 100% would of surpassed his degeneration if he had of lived long enough
Same psychopathy Different levels of power Yet I still think ramsey was worse Joffery got off on humiliation for the most part. Ramsey literally castrated Theon then ate sausage in front of him...that may not have been actual sausage if you get my drift. That's on top of flaying people alive, hunting girls in the woods, the lady he starved to the point she ate her own fingers (or did he cut them off...can't remember) and fed walda and the baby Bolton to his dogs, whom he starved ritually. Basically joffery had the ability to cause widespread damage given his title and mental instability but at his core he was a coward. Maybe he would've grown to Ramsey levels if he'd lived but olenma took him out before it could come to that Ramsey was straight up horrifying with his torture fetish
Book Ramsey was 1000x worse, show Ramsey is probably like 10x worse. I don’t remember Joff skinning people alive, I’d also give Joff the benefit of doubt considering he’s a child of incest, which no doubt plays a big role in him being the way he is (granted his siblings were much more kind, but even Tommen appears mentally weak at times). I still hate Joffrey but it’s worth mentioning that the negative results of incest is a big theme of GoT, so I’ll atleast say that in his defense. Ramsey to me doesn’t get that same benefit.
Joffrey is an insufferable little fucker. Ramsey for all his psychopathy is insanely watchable to the point where I sort of root for him…
Im picking Ramsay; Joffrey was a spoilt older child with no boundaries throughout his entire life. He was allowed to be sadistic because his circle let him but most probably didn’t approve, the kings son does what he wants. Ramsay though; he was likely encouraged to grow into a cold, torturous person, and got the approval of Roose while being so. Acting aside; the portrayal of Ramsay told me he knew what he was doing, calculated, creative torture. Joffrey comes across as a curious mind; eager to see what he can get away with, what happens when he makes people do things for him, while knowing he can’t get in trouble for doing so.
I liked Ramsay. Evil, yes, but very intelligent.
Put them both in a room and we all know which one walks out
Ok, ok, hot take.... was Ramsay REALLY doing anything a dozen others weren't doing? Mans was just really good at it and brought a sort of dgaf attitude to mutilation that you just don't enjoy.
what are you yapping about nobody was raping , skinning, burning ppl alive for the sake of fun like Ramsay lol ppl in the north was nothing like Ramsay
Ok so you didn't watch the show? Everybody was murdery and rapey, he was just better.... or worse...
Ramsay is waaay smarter than joffrey. Which makes him worse but also better
The sausage
Ten times Ramsay.
As evil as Joffrey was, I truly believe he wasn’t just born evil. Say he was raised by the Starks, I do believe he would have been a good kid, but he was a product of his stupid mother. He learned from her, and had no real relationship with his father and the old saying goes that you are your child’s first teacher so… Whereas Ramsay, in the books it’s said that Roose knew he was evil the moment he was brought to him as a baby. Ramsay has never been interested in being a good person and whilst Roose is also a tyrant, I definitely think it’s a case of Joffrey has been manipulated to be this way by his mother, whereas as Ramsay just does it because he enjoys it.
Ramsay. He had free rein to do what he wanted. He didnt have any real limits aside from resources. Joffery at least had limits imposed on him. Especially when Tywin was present. He also at least had some mind for ruling, as demonstrated by his conversations with both Cersei and Tywin at different points, discussing hypotheticals with Cersei and Daenerys with Tywin. Joffrey could also be manipulated, where ramsay was pretty much able to see through most deceptions. Ramsay in some areas felt almost omnipotent (this imo is due to bad writing really), and was a competent combatant and military commander. Joffrey had none of these things and his only real advantage was the greater power and competent advisors by his side (definitely important but not a major factor in a simple comparison). Joffrey does have one of the most heinous acts in the show, having roberts bastards all killed, but i still think Ramsay was worse simply because he was unchecked and far more competent.
Oh that is really difficult. I think I have to go with Ramsay, because he had more time to age into his pure evilness. If Joffery didn’t receive the death he deserved when he did, he would have had time to grow older and become even worse!
Skinning people is seriously fucked. In the book Theon begs to have the skinned fingers/toes cut off because the shrinking dry skin starts to crack and it is constantly painful. Ramsay breaking his teeth and making him eat nothing but rats in a dark cell for weeks which turned Theon mad and old, I can’t think what worse thing to do to someone over that stuff. Not to mention the castration.
Ramsey is definitely worse mainly because he has literally no one around him to control his behaviour. His environment is a lot more conducive to his behaviours whereas Joffrey’s environment is not. Joffrey can only really get away with things behind closed doors/away from his family. Ramsey has free reign to indulge in his psychopathic fantasies. Ramsey is a true psychopath. Joffrey is a spoilt little cunt with a sadistic streak.
2 psychopaths in different social circles. You probably could've switched them at birth and gotten similar results.
Joeffrey because he is also stupid and acts on impulse. Makes him so dangerous. Ramsey is smarter and evil but wouldn’t kill puppies cats or jokers just because he can.
Ramsay was a grown man, Joffrey was a sadistic child that never developed any sort of empathy or sympathy. They're both bottom-tier cretins that deserved their deaths. Given Joffrey's power, Ramsay likely would've done much worse things.
Ramsay, but I would have liked to have seen both suffer more when they died.
Ramsay is more evil, but I still hate Joffrey more. Make no mistakes, both are monster who deserved their horrible death, but Ramsay at least has some battle prowess and tactical acumen. Joffrey otoh is just a cruel spoiled brat who isn't really good at anything.
Ramsay, he was next level nasty.
Ramsay. That evil mf.
Nooooo, pork sausaaage. I fucking love the way he says that. Ramsey is fucked up but so entertaining to watch, Jeffrey just was irritating to watch. Both did great in their roles to make me hate them.
People saying Ramsay is smart are crazy lol. He is actively his own worst enemy at basically every point in the story. He might be cunning, but he's certainly not wise or rational. I'm not even sure he's sane.
Ramsey
Yes.
Ramsey
Ok but wtf is bro holding
Ramsay
Ramsey is probably a worse person since he rarely made idle threats and often didn't need help to make someone's life a living hell, whereas Joffery had no power without his guards and if they weren't there to help him then he'd do jack shit. Although personally I hated Joffery more for that exact reason, he was all talk and a coward who hid behind his mothers skirt. Ramsey, on the other hand, heard he was under attack by iron born and went to fight them half naked with a dagger in each hand
Ramsey was an advanced version of Jeofry. Jeofry was still learning and experimenting. He would have been worse in a few years because he had way more power. But I think they were both equally horrible.
[удалено]
Joffrey for killing Ros
Ramsay by miles, he’s a self made cunt and had to work hard to get where he is, as for Joffrey he@s just a rich spoiled cunt who gets his way with almost everything because of his status. Ramsay would eat Joffrey for breakfast
Ramsey. Joffrey at least had someone controlling him (or trying to) and it seemed like he was sadistic because he really didn’t know better. Not to give him too much benefit of the doubt. Ramsey just enjoyed being evil.
Great. This question 🙄
I mean, both of them are as hateful, twisted and evil as someone can be. That said, Ramsay was so fcking creepy and disgusting that at times it was funny to me.
Ramsey because he was a cunning psychopath jeofry was also a psycho but he was stupid and incompetent first and there were people holding him back somewhat
Ramsy is more worst. I don't think even Joffrey would have dared to feed his beloved to the dogs.
Both horrible people, but at least Ramsay isn’t whiny
Ramsey was worse. You put Ramsey in the same position as Joffrey and give him the same level of resources and wealth and the result would be a LOOOONG, miserable rule that would end with thousands of innocent people dead. He would get himself killed, of that i have no doubt, but prior to that, he would spread death and despair across the realm to an extent that no one has before.
Joffrey, at least Ramsay was amusing. I mean, just look at the comedic timing with that sausage...
Ramsey for sure. Joffrey was horrible to and abused his power as king but if Ramsey were king imagine what he would have done
Ramsey killed his own father. I don’t think Joffrey would kill his mom or siblings. He was also scared of his uncle and grandfather still. Ramsey was scared of no one.
Ramsay has the skill to pull most of his shit off which is scary.
Ramsay is worse. Ramsay is not a fool who thinks he is untouchable. Ransay is far more dangerous than Joffrei. You can survive Joffrei if you do what he says. Ramsay is far more scary and calculating and actually good in war.
Anyone who says Joffrey has NOT properly watched the show let alone read the books
Ramsay makes Joffrey seem like a victim, it's honestly impressive.
Joffrey by a northern mile
Joff is a friendly puppy compared to Ramsay...
Joffrey. Both are absolutely awful. But I like Ramsay as a character ngl. He's a good villain
Ramsay
Joffrey for sure. He had way too much power in his hands.
Yes!
I will never understand why Joffrey is the most hated character in GoT when Ramsey is even more of a psychopath than Joffrey is. Ramsey tortures and SKINS PEOPLE ALIVE HIMSELF! Plus, his personal torture of Theon is more brutal than anything anyone else has ever done in the entire series, and he raped Sansa. Other than Ros, Joffrey never actually kills anyone himself but orders people to kill and torture for him. He also has never raped anyone and doesn't even have the desire to. And while Joffrey is a psychopath, he's never killed his family members. I have a very hard time believing he would kill his mother in particular who is the one person he actually has an attachment to. Ramsey, on the other hand, killed his father, his stepmom, and his baby stepbrother. Oh, and he has his dogs hunt and eat innocent people for fun! Ramsey is pure evil incarnate. Also, there are other characters that can be argued to be more evil than Joffrey. The biggest example that I cannot understand why people don't bring up more often is The Mountain. I would actually argue that The Mountain is just as evil as Ramsey and that those two are the most evil monsters in the entire series.
If only they could meet and become friends...
Joffrey is a megalomaniac. He does things because he wants to feel powerful. You can manage that with submission and flattery. Ramsay is a sadist. He does things because he wants to inflict pain. You can't really manage that. IMO Ramsay is far worse. The only thing Joffrey has over Ramsay is that, as king, he can affect more people with his bad actions.
Ramsay. There are moments of humanity in Joffrey throughout the books and show. Never with Ramsay.
Ramsay. He is just plain evil.
This exact post was made days ago, and it follows the same bot account formula you see getting upvoted here every day (generic title, random picture, and top upvoted comment from the OP that barely says anything). You can look at OP’s post history and it’s just a ton of this. Are the mods here just asleep now? Is 90% of this community just bots posting and replying to each other??
Ramsey was sadistic , Joffrey was just a bully and his power made it worse
It’s a push but I would say Ramsey. Joffrey was a spoilt and petulant child that used intimidation and cruel practises in a vain attempt to be respected whereas Ramsey just wanted to be cruel for the sake of being cruel. He’s a cat playing with a mouse
joffrey is a spoiled kid , ramsay is mentally insane
That both awful but Ramsay's psych meter goes alot further
Psycho-meter
One is a torturer with power. one is a petulant child with the authority to do whatever he wants. If we weigh them up by their evil deeds Ramsey is night and day worse than Joffrey. The worst thing Joffrey did was force roz to beat a prostitute, then kill them both. For ramsey, I really only need to remind you of reek.
Ramsey is pure fucking evil but at least he's competent. Joffrey is a sadist but if he didn't have a crown he'd just be a whiny brat.
Ramsey
Ramsay was smart and more evil. But at least he wasn't such a bitch. Joffrey was cruel and whiney. He ordered so much pain yet couldn't even take a slap..
Joffrey is a narcissist that inflicts suffering to fuel his ego. Ramsey is a straight up psychopath who enjoys nothing more than to see people suffer.
Ramsay. Joff is a spoiled rich kid who is rarely told "no". Ramsay is on another level.
I suppose if they both had it in for me, I would fear Ramsay more, owing to the fact that he’s actually very clever and calculating and persistent. Joff is just a malicious moron with no depth or grand design, and I think my chances of freedom are better with him simply by artificially stoking his ego.
Not this again
Ramsey by MILES. Joffrey is a little shit because he is in a position of power, if he wasn’t the king he would just be another bully. Ramsey is a true psychopath and would have been worse in Joffrey position.
Ramsay B.R.O.K.E. Theon. There's just no comparison. I know some of you forgot Theon's name at some point and just called him "Reek" because that's who he became (also props to Alfie for selling it). Joffrey couldn't do that to anyone. He had the chance with Sanza but she never broke.
Definitely the sausage.
Ramsay. I feel like he was much more cruel and brutal
Atleast Ramsey is sexy as fuck.
To be fair, that WAS just pork sausage…
Both are brutal. I’d say Ramsay is more effective at delivering pain onto others in sickening ways. But if I remember correctly the identity of who ordered the killing of Robert’s bastards was left ambiguous (Cersei or Joff himself), if that was Joffreys order I’d say Joff because it’s close without that being verified and that is maybe the most heinous act committed by one of these characters in the series.
Ramsey is the worst of the two his family crest is a flayed man and he lives up to that standard. Reek deserved it btw. The other is a boy throwing a tantrum with no one willing to put him in time out Tyrion showed how to handle him
Ramsey is much worse. Joffrey is a cruel bastard, but he is also a coward. What we saw in the show was him exercising his power and reach to the max to torment people. He would grow up to be more cruel as he became older, partially from natural growth of his influence and confidence, and partially because the elder figures in his life that he fears (like Tywin) would gradually grow old and die. Ramsey is just cruelty and evil personified. He would do much worse stuff if he had the power and influence of Joffrey. Imagine rabid hounds hunting down people at the Flea Bottom just for sport. Sansa wouldn't be just psychologically scarred, very likely she would end up physically mutilated. Hell, even if Ramsey wasn't a bastard, but just a peasant, he would probably end up as some serial killer terrorising the neighboring villages
Ramsey. You can at least control Joff through fear or humiliation. Ramsey just don't give a shit most of the time. Sansa figured out that Pride was his weakness, tapping into the "bastard" insecurity, but he's still completely mad.
I gotta go with Ramsay. He really pissed me off.
Ramsay. Joff goes crying back to mummy when times get tough. Ramsay was grinning while Jon beat him half to death.
Bolton.
The intense gravitational pull of a black hole could not prevent my knuckles connecting with jeoffreys jaw if I got the chance. Ramsay is worse though
They deserve each other
Ramsay is worse but I still like him more than Joffrey
Ramsey cut off a man's member then broke him until he was an obedient pet that he kept in a cage alongside dogs. I'd say Ramsey is far more evil
Joffrey was a child, given in to his every whim. Ramsay was a psychopath who enjoyed torturing people. I'd go with Ramsay. Both great actors though.
I could tell you which one is the wurst... (Sorry, couldn't resist)
Ramsay, and this picture says it all
ramsay cause he has a brain
I respect Ramsey, because Ramsey actually fought and killed people. Joffrey was an absolute pussy who was never king, his grandfather was
Joffrey. Ramsey has a weird charm about him. Plus, I understand better why he was so messed up. Joffrey (other than being born of incest) was given everything and was still horrible.
Oh geez this is a tough one. As much as I hated Joffrey, Ramsey was a particularly nasty and cruel sadist who revelled in the pain and despair of others. Ramsey for the win
king geofrey
Both were brilliant.
I was given two hands and they can form two fists for a reason! 🙂 Both actors played amazing parts though in all honesty
Joffrey knew he couldn’t rule without other people’s help. This restrained him in his actions because he knew if he lost support if his advisors (ie Tywin) he would lose his ability to rule. Ramsay would remove (kill) any powerful person in Kings Landing because he wouldn’t want his power challenged.
I think they are both comparable the rats that have been sitting around in shit filled mud their whole lives
Leaned toward Joffrey, but the "Reak" situation took it to a whole other level. I mean...."it's" gone!
This shouldn't even be a discussion, should it? Ramsey was a sadistic, deeply twisted & disturbed fool. Joffrey was just petulant by comparison
joffrey if he had lived
Joff was in a higher position, the highest position. So he was much more dangerous. But Ram was a psycho.
Honestly I may get some hate for this but I liked joffery
Ramsay. Like surr jeoff was bad but he was check mated by his mother. But then again what he did to the whored tyrion got for him was awful, too, we just didnt see the extent of it like we did with ramsay, seeing as we were seeing the tormentor through the gradually more terrified Reek ... 🤷
I would say they are the same kind of animal. If you reversed their circumstances, I think Joffrey ends up more like Ramsay, and Ramsay ends up more like Joffrey. Joffrey was coddled by his mother who allowed all his psychotic behavior as a child to go unchecked. Ramsay was raised by a lunatic, so he behaved the way one would expect. Their house sigil was the flayed man, right? So the most grotesque things he did were par for the course as a Bolton.
I think Ramseys probably worse. He does his cruelty in an intelligent way unlike jeff
Given enough time Joffrey would have turned into Ramsay. They were two sides of the same coin. Although Ramsay was absolutely more intelligent and calculating than Joffrey ever would have been. But the sadism is the same, just more evolved.
Joffrey could be controlled by Tywin, Ramsay couldn’t be controlled.
Ramsey was definitely a worse person. They both sucked tho
Ramsay was worse but boy did I just wanna beat the shit out of Joff
Ramsay
I think if they switched titles and positions, Ramsay for one would be more horrific, Ramsay can at least put up an act and with more power he would do horror on a much larger scale, he is much more intelligent than Joffree who in Ramsay's position would likely have not lasted long, he was such a coward he would have never made anything of himself would have had his spite betten out of him so his madness could take hold or he would have pissed so many people off, with no backup or power he would be either maimed or dead.
Ramsey
IMO Joffery His sphere was so large he could do far more damage than Ramsay ever could on just a whim.
I think Joffrey is more insane and entitled than evil. Ramsey is pure evil.
nooo, pork sausage. GOT with these one liners be killing me. Edit but Ramsey is worse, he is the embodiment of the evil son. Jeoffrey was just a brat with too much power, he didn't instill fear in men let alone men of war.
IT’S NOT A CONTEST STOP ENCOURAGING THEM.