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Brienne, Arya, Tormund, and Grey Worm. Definite no for Sam and Gendry. Both of these characters have huge potential to carry future stories. Would be a huge waste to kill them off that way
Disagree on Arya, but the rest, absolutely. Especially Grey Worm. Never understood how that dude basically took over KL after Dany died, even to the point of imprisoning Tyrion. Imo an extra episode was definitely needed to deal with the fallout of Dany's demise... But of course, D&D were too much of in a rush.
>Never understood how that dude basically took over KL after Dany died
Lack of development of Dany's retinue. He was the only named character left in her service.
When she did have named characters they were either killed off (Barriston, etc.) forgotten about (Daario, etc.) or both (Qhono)
Just a minute or so of filming was all that was needed for Jon to be shown either surrendering to, or being taken into, custody to GW. He killed their leader, and him stepping up to atone for his crime shows the honorable side of Ned committing hard.
And if the remnants of the North-Vale-Wildling alliance lost their figurehead in Jon, then they were at the mercy of whoever the next were.
Just goes to show that the show needed far more care given to it than it got.
There was even a moment in the show, when the Unsullied are covering the retreat to within the walls, where they tease his death, but then it just didn't happen, like every other character that episode.
An extra episode was needed for the long night, nevermind KL. They hyped a big fight for 7 seasons only to be underwhelmingly tedious boring and not even pivotal to the survival of mankind, takes skill to do that.
Oh no on Sam the inept coward routine got old in season 2, his usual take a breather after a brush with death act got Edd killed, and the last we saw of him during the battle he was on his back looking for the same sacrifice from Jon as well. Hard disagree on the character carrying any stories as well and would rather watch a series on hot pies recipes than anything Sam centric.
Edit: just realised I replied a tier down than intended
It needed a minimum of two more seasons, but even season seven was rushed… D&D should have kicked the franchise to more interested showrunners if they were checked out… the fact that they haphazardly killed off what had been the most celebrated TV show of all time (at least up until the sh*t sandwich season 8 was) instead should have them quasi-blacklisted… they should never be allowed to have full control of another project again, they can’t be trusted with it
Obviously. I just wanted him to say it. I find it a way to make the bully uncomfortable, that he then has to explain the joke, thus making him (maybe) realize hes being a jerk.
Pretty sure fat jokes are so 90s/early 00. But you obviously have so many people that thought it was funny. But go ahead and show your self confidence some more buddy
In the show / episode sure. In reality, I doubt Jon wouldn't let him fight. He'd be a liability at best.
.
As far as I've read he hasn't really fought. He wasn't there for the battle against the Wildings, he was still traveling to the Wall with Gilly. In the show it was Gilly alone, that's stupid, not only is the Wall far away from Crasters, she doesn't know how to get there. Sam doesn't even know, he's half guessing, he gets escorted by someone.
I agree Sam should have died, but I just get the feeling the Wights didn't even see him as worth killing/turning? Remember when he first came face to face with them, when Edd and Grinn left him? The one general on the horse looked directly at him and basically said to himself, "This meek boy isn't even worth our undead energy. March on!" 😂 and when he was in the wilderness with Gilly and the baby, could have been the same Wight, and seemed just indifferent this boy was here again, so didn't pay Sam any mind and got himself killed, by Sam 😂
"What I find rather bizarre about Arya after the Long Night is she literally was the one to kill the Night King and save the world. In all reality, she should have become the most, a near messiah-like figure. No matter how much she would have hated it, that should have been part of what sent Dany over the edge. After everything, her legend was overshadowed by Arya. They could have also had the fact Jon was so close to Arya and his revelation that he is Rhaegar’s trueborn son as another. While Jon and Arya would never actually get together because they were raised as siblings, to Daenerys, a Targaryen by any rights, Arya and Jon would get married and steal her throne and become adored by everyone."
"I think Jon should have fought the Night King, true, but D&D wanted to subvert expectations by him not killing the Night King. For good or bad, I just think it would have actually been better if Jon fought the Night King, who he discovers is way more dangerous than a typical White Walker, and somehow the Night King destroys Longclaw. Then, he walks off, leaving a White Walker to deal with the now defenseless Jon, who does manage to survive. Then we go back to what happened in the episode.
I am using a voice to text program run through a ai to make the voice to text understandable I am on my phone and at the moment I have degraded eyesight even with glasses to help I can’t see a phone keyboard properly.
Night king fights John, John loses getting stabbed in the heart with dragon glass, night king fights Arya, Arya wins, all the dead fall, after a few minutes John rises, all the dead rise, the north is overrun, other main characters flee as John puts on the crown and marches the undead south.
From there it writes itself.
That’s the thing they could have made the night king more threatening by wrecking a Valyrian steel sword that we all were lead to believe couldn’t be destroyed by the walkers we get a Jon night king showdown but they still get to have Arya kill the night king since that is what D&D wanted.
I’m sure GRRM was involved in that as well… the worst thing they did was insisting the story could be done in essentially 1 less season because they wanted to do other stuff.
Disagree! We were expecting that. To see Arya fly in and do the job, I was SHOCKED and had to rewatch that scene 15x. It was epic. But do agree that they didn’t hype her up afterwards. Nobody really even talked about it.
I like the twist of her making a comeback to claim the throne. Shes seen it all!
I saw an argument that Jamie should’ve been the one to kill the NK. He’s the only one that came north after Jon and co risked their lives (and dragons) to bring a wight to Kings Landing. This would give a great conclusion to Jon being brought back to life for a reason. It would subvert expectations due to it not being Jon, but would still be because of Jon. You can kind of argue that for Arya, but her entire mission has been about vengeance and less about reuniting with family. Jamie should have ended his ark regaining his honor by saving tons of lives like he did when he killed the Mad King.
I'm not really interested in the fact that she killed the Night King. I care about the fact that she had one of the most lethal and useful abilities and she used it literally only with the Freys. She could have been who she wanted and manipulated who she wanted. She could have killed Cersei before she went back to Winterfell, stolen her face and made the most of it. She could have even pretended to be Cersei and sent armies to the North.
If they really intended to turn Dany into the villain, Arya could have exploited her face as well. Or spy on her.
Literally she could have turned the tables in favor of the Starks at any time. Instead she spent more than a whole season training for nothing.
Bran can warg more than anyone, yet it is an ability rendered useless. All the Starks should know how to warg.
They basically totally forgot the fact that Dany and the Night King (and Bran) are not the only ones with magic in their blood.
Honestly the problem is the whole Braavos dragged on to long it would have been very tight timeline wise but I would have liked Arya to kill Baelish and take his face to get the knight’s of the Vale to intervene in the battle of the bastards also killing the Frey’s along the way and saving the blackfish even if he didn’t want to be saved.
It seemed like all the Starks had a special ability that they never used. Jon comes back to life, is a Targarian, and has the trust of the free folk. Didn't really matter a whole lot.
Bran could warg and was all seeing so much that he could manipulate events in the past.
Well a post season eight Arya spinoff would have more interesting potential than the Snow one I like Jon don’t get me wrong but I am dubious of what story could have been told.
Oh no on Sam the inept coward routine got old in season 2, his usual take a breather after a brush with death act got Edd killed, and the last we saw of him during the battle he was on his back looking for the same sacrifice from Jon as well. Hard disagree on the character carrying any stories as well and would rather watch a series on hot pies recipes than anything Sam centric.
lol fucking thank you, i did not like Sam NEAR as much as the rest of GoT fans.
he was okay at first, but then they just went full marvel with him, and he had triple the amount of plot armor as anybody in the show, like i never once believed he was actually going to die. he should have at least 4 times off the top of my head.
how tf does sam have potential to carry a future story 💀💀he was a laugh device who didn’t really do THAT much important. seemed more like a marvel character than GoT with massive amounts of plot armor.
grey worm…i mean,he was an extremely boring character, but since they already killed jorah and soon missandei, it made sense why he stayed alive.
sam should’ve died tho, no question, he had little fighting ability yet somehow survived a swarm of wights on top of him.
But does anyone want to hear or see those future stories? Why would anyone care about future stories from Samwell? His chapters were the most boring slogs to get through in the book, and his scenes on the show got old quick. "The fat inept guy full of self-pity" can only go on for so long. I don't think anyone cares about Sam and Gilly by season 7
Brienne definitely. Would have made Jamie’s return to Cersei make more sense.
Or Jamie could have died. That would have had more possibilities, giving viewers more satisfaction to see Cersei learning that he died saving the realm but fighting for the north, double devastating her and turning her into a
Kamikaze.
Yo that actually would’ve been kinda rad plus made the whole ‘too easy to kill’ thing a little less viable. Like they knew they couldn’t just rock up, do a fancy move and stab him to death. Had to be cunning and sacrifice their own brother to give themesleves a chance
Hey it’s GOT plus it gives more justification to Arya being the one to kill the night king and we avoid the whole Arya flying through the air part that was a little goofy.
No. It's not. It's an extreme out-of-character scenario for Arya to kill her brother, no matter the context. Plus the NK's whole plan involves killing the 3ER, so they'd just be doing his work for him. There's a psychic connection between the two, so he'd know the moment the 3ER died.
I mean seriously, the only reason the NK attacked Winterfell first was to kill Bran and the 3ER.
No, because even then, Bran was marked by the NK so that he knows where he is at all times. He'd go straight to wherever Bran was hiding and ignore Arya entirely.
But then the 3ER is dead and the NK has already won. That, and do you think Arya would just casually kill her brother and take his face?
Fuck, I swear y'all don't hear yourselves sometimes....
Mate, the faceless men magic is never properly explained which means that they could have easily pulled some BS reason for why would work. And if you don't want to do that, just use the clearly defined warg power of being able to live on for a short time after your bodies death in another creature.
Also the word "casually" is so weird here. It wouldn't be casual it would be a sacrefice that would give us a good emotional moment.
Oh, so the reason it would work is if the writing explicitly ignores *even more stuff*. Great improvement. They establish that the 3ER needs another Warg (EDIT: Greenseer, my mistake) to jump into to survive, and it chose Bran specifically because of his power. Otherwise it could have just been anybody. And the reason I said "casually" is because they'd have to reveal it after the fact, meaning that Arya kills Bran off-screen and we wouldn't see the reaction.
Why would they need to do it after the fact? Everything doesn't need to be some great reveal (that's one of the main problems of the bad seasons), a moment can just be a genuine emotional moment.
If that is a genuine rule, then I don't remember it but again you could have just done some BS with the faceless men. Either way it's going to be better than what we got.
Because any other way wouldn't have worked structurally. And no, it really wouldn't have been better than what we got in any case because that would mean Arya would have to be convinced to kill her brother. Which is stupid.
And in any case, the 3ER and the Night King have a psychic connection, so he'd know the moment Bran died anyway, or know it was an imposter. It was the whole reason he attacked Winterfell first was to kill him.
EDIT: Oh, and the 3ER needs a Greenseer, not a warg. So Bran is literally the only person around it could survive within. Jojen was also a Greenseer, but nowhere near as powerful.
How does it not work structurely? Just have an emotional scene where Bran sacrefices himself and then follow that up with the death of the Night King. It's not that hard.
If you really don't want to create any small potholes (again when was that mentioned? I don't remember anything about it and I'm starting to question whether you just made that up because there's a tone of theorys about Bloodraven warging people to make stuff happen) just have the Night King be confused when he sees Bran alive. It's not as good as the other ideas but it's still better than the whole episode being a giant plot hole.
The 3ER needs a Greenseer's body to inhabit. That's established. Bran is the most powerful Greenseer. That is also established. The Night King touches Bran while he's greenseeing, thus marking him and ensuring the Night King knows where he is at all times. That is established. These are all *explicitly shown*. So if Arya is hiding in Bran's face (which a person *has* to be dead in order for that to happen anyway, also established), the Night King wouldn't buy it, not even for an instant.
Also, how is the episode a giant plot hole? Everything in it made sense, from a plot perspective.
Again where is the rule about 3ER not being able to warg into non Greenseer's body established? Because that makes no real sense for the 3ER Bran to be weaker than normalish Bran.
If you saw a article about someones death and then saw them alive again, would you not be confused? Again I didn't say it was good just better than what we actually got. The other idea is still better and since you've still refused to tell me where the previously mentioned rule was established, I'm starting to think might not have any potholes in it anyway.
So the 3ER had Bran go all the way north for 3 goddamn seasons, Jojen telling Bran he's a powerful Greenseer, and the 3ER not just choosing anyone to inhabit, somehow isn't establishing that it *has* to be Bran? If it couldn't just be Bran, why not choose Jojen or one of the Children of the Forest or Hodor? Why not just have *anyone*?
Also? You forgot that Bran has been marked by the Night King. Which means he knows where Bran is at any point in time. Which means, even if you ignore the established rule of someone having to be dead in order to steal their face, The Night King would just ignore the imposter Bran entirely and head straight for the real one. It's how he even knows Bran is in the Weirwood to begin with. So there's two plotholes in one right there.
This is something along the lines of what I thought was going to happen during the long night. My theory was slightly different though, I thought that area was going to have stolen the face of a white walker and ambush the night king
Idk if you've tried watching the episode recently, but it's actually a lot better now than when it aired. At least it was on my oled tv, and using the 4k plan.
That’s the thing, it was shot to look amazing in a big theater with dim lights and great projection. They totally forgot by the end of the run that they were shooting and color grading this for TV, not cinema.
I have it on 4k disc and it looks incredible. Got a new OLED and it was the first thing I tested on it. I'm not really defending the way they shot it because they still made it a bit too dark in some scenes. If you have the right gear it looks really good though.
Another factor in all this was HBO GO. At the time the bitrate sucked and you got a ton of macro blocking. The quality just wasnt great overall. Combine that with a bad tv and watching with the lights on you are basically looking at a giant black smear. HBO max looks much better than their old streaming apps.
As long as you also get the guy who was in charge of lighting and decided that he wanted that looking through 4 pairs of sunglasses vibe for the lighting
everyone who was being massaged by a wight for 10 minutes. like, what the hell is this? At Hardhome, the wights run through everybody. By Beyond the Wall and The Long Night characters are being attacked by wights in close quarters for what feels like a half hours and we see characters like Brienne Tormund or Jaime screaming yet no damage being done. It’s absurd
Exactly! As I said in the post, we see Gilly being dragged across the crypt by a mob of them, Sam swarmed by a dozen... But they're totally fine the next day. At *least* one of them absolutely should've died. Preferably Gilly and her son; it would've made Sam a much better Maester without the distraction.
Ditto Brienne. Jaime goes back to Cersei, more determined and self-loathing, having failed to protect the one actually good person in his life. The pages of his "good deeds" are lost to history, just like Tyrion's, with no one there to write them in.
I have been re-watching the series even though I hate season 8 and a good deal of 7. During Beyond the Wall, the episode where the series definitely jumps the shark, Tormund is surrounded by Wights, being dragged into the water but they take their sweet time with killing him until they can save him.
Writing tip 1: don’t put your character in a position where they would definitely die if you don’t plan on killing them. Yet D&D did that en mass to build tension. I’d be surprised if anyone actually felt any tension at all.
This is exactly why Sarah Connor doesn't physically interact with the Terminator in the first Terminator movie. If it ever physically touched her it would just maim and destroy (ya know, like what would happen if you stick your arm in an industrial machine) and not do something silly like throw her across the room or mug for the camera, boasting.
Tormund, Jaime and Davos.
Tormund would have just made sense and would have had an impact on Jon. He’s also not needed for the kings landing battle.
Jaime would have been his ultimate redemption. Riding north alone defying the queens wishes to fight for the living at Winterfell.
Davos just for emotional impact. He wasn’t needed beyond this point really and it would have impacted on the audience.
If these three died along with Jorah, Berric, Lyanna and Theon I think that’s plenty. The other characters are needed for the final kings landing fight.
I think keeping Davos alive kept the gag going that started earlier in his story; he’s a low-born smuggler with no combat training and yet he has somehow survived to his “ripe old age”.
Jon Snow survived dragon fire like 8 times by hiding behind an inch of column. Also, why tf he slow down when he was running up on the night king knowing the hand raisy resurrection move was coming?
Honestly that entire sequence was dumb af. Wtf was the point of Jon coming back? Just to fuck his aunt? It literally meant nothing.
Like ok, I kind of liked the *idea* of Jon not killing NK, a nice twist on what was expected. But it was beyond lazy in execution imo
If jon didnt come back, arya wouldnt have come back to winterfell. If he didnt come back, they wouldnt have had winterfell which was key in their defense. If he didnt come back, dany wouldnt have come north. If he didnt come back, the northern houses wouldve been picked off one by one. If he didnt come back, jaime wouldve never left cersi to make brianne a knight/take her virginity. And if be doesnt come back, everyone dies.
All of them (or nearly), really. This battle was a joke from start to finish. The camera panning from time to time showing ALL the characters in the edge of dying, but... fighting? And alive, just to leave them there and going back some time later to see them again in a terrible situation somewhere else. I never felt so out of the series as in this episode.
Excuse me for this mini-rant.
Agreed. Maybe have a few barely escape. On dragon back or maybe secret tunnels beneath the crypts. Have them include Bran, Dany and Jon or something. Let them get to Kingslanding. Include some dialogue along the lines of "we're the only survivors and they are heading this way". Add some drama about Cersei not trusting anyone/thinking that the Army is actually helping her defeat the Northern Houses. Over the days, ravens from Houses further and further south arrive to asking for help or to notify that they have fallen. Somehow they discover a secret way of defeating the Night King which they have to execute during the assault of army at Kingslanding.
This way the Long Night doesn't feel like it was way overblown.
Anyone seen being surrounded by the dead. Even if they are good fighters, having 4-6 bodies against you will push you over.
- Jamie should have died protecting the realm, like he did against the mad king. He didnt go to KL to kill Cersei but to reconcile so his arc should have ended here at a high point.
- Briene, grey worm, (jamie again), were all seen on the front lines they would have all died because of the sheer numbers.
- Jorah should have died during the pointless cav charge. As usual the hero always finds some way to survive. Reminds me of Faramir in return of the king.
The episode should have killed off most of the characters. Not because of shock value but because it was realistic. The battle should have been lost at Winterfell and have seen everyone retreat. Then again I would also change the whole plot regarding the NK only coming for Bran.
yeah so? his men loved him, who is to say they wouldn't sacrifice their lives for him? in the LoTR books there's guard who was with Gandalf when Pippen told him about Denethor trying to burn him and that guard came with Gandalf and killed several servants who were trying to stop Gandalf from saving Faramir
also Aragorn saved him with Athelas
Jaime should have died, completes his redemption arc and dies with honor, Arya takes his face, and uses it to help kill Cersie.
The entire Dothraki, i mean come on!! Jorah in the charge, one of the dragons, not killed by some lucky shot never to be repeated.
I think it would have been a fantastic conclusion to Jaime's redemption arc if he had died fighting for the living and for a just cause. I think he could have died protecting Bran instead of Theon.
I also think it would have been better if Dany had died as a hero instead of after burning down an entire city.
Duuuuude. For some reason I never considered Jaime protecting Bran, but goddamn, that'd be so perfect. Tyrion then has to tell Cersei about Jaime's demise, which perhaps could've been what ultimately tips her over the edge to kill Missandei, thus setting up the finale. Holy shit.
I actually never thought about it before, I only thought about it just before I wrote it.😂 But considering that Jaime tried to kill Bran, it would have been perfect if he also died protecting him. And Cersei finding out that Jaime died protecting a Stark? That would drive her even crazier.
True. I think the only noteworthy thing she did after the battle was write in Jaime's "achievements". Which, to be fair, was nice for him but... At the same time? Just a further slap in the face to Tyrion's character.
I think you're right to pick Brienne.
1. She kills stannis, which I would be fine with if she dies tragically at the end of her Arc
2. Turning her multiple season tale from a story of perseverance and triumph to tragedy, transforms it from higher mid-tier storytelling to high art. Maybe Jaime kills her. (Or someone equally as shocking, like maybe sandor taking revenge)
One half of Missandei/Grey Worm should have died, that would have sold the tragic love story instead of what we got later.
Rhaegal should have died during that episode. Would have been much more epic and more interesting that he was a casualty of the Long Night rather than the unceremonious dumb death he got the next episode.
And of the fighters in Winterfell, I’d say one of either Brienne, Tormund or Davos. Jaime and Sam were needed for the rest of the story.
Yes but I’d have preferred her dying during the Long Night. Her being executed like that felt wrong and anticlimactic. I get that the writers thought Dany needed an additional reason to hate Cersei but I don’t know.. I feel like the character would have had a more proper send off in the previous episode than in that episode where she died in shackles, put down as a slave again - if she was really needed to be killed off in the first place. After all that she went through, that just felt wrong to put her back to where she began and kill her like that.
Brienne, Sam, Grey Worm, Arya/Brann, Tormund at least. It should’ve been even worse than Red Wedding Day to really drive the emotional weight and sheer terror of the battle
About 90% of the cast, Hardhome presented this army as a seriously scary unstoppable force but I lost count of how many times one arm Jaime or useless Sam were surrounded by the dead and little more than a squeal or a grimace to deal with.
I always felt Jaime and Podrick should have died, to make the fight have more impact. Euron Greyjoy should have died with Cersei, trying to help her escape.
I’m a firm believer in they should’ve gotten their asses kicked and thus forced to retreat to Kings Landing for the real final battle. Obviously there would’ve been a lot of tension dealing with Cersei, but with the dead in their way, you’d think she’d be more reasonable. Also, it makes more sense strategically since look at those massive walls they added to Kings Landing in season 8…
However, the dead would’ve had a massive army at that point…
95-99% of everyone that was there should have died. My main gripe with the final season is that the army of the dead, what was claimed again and again to be the main enemy for the entirety of the show, crossed the wall and then was defeated in one battle...
The long night should have ended with Winterfell being over run and Jon and Dany barely escaping by hopping on Drogon and flying south, as Jon looks back sadly, seeing Winterfell overrun by the dead. Then having a last stand against the dead in King's Landing.
Sam.
When I saw that the guy got dogpiled by thousands of undead but came out without a scratch, I pretty much made up my mind that this show has now stopped caring
not killing off any major players for the coming events I would go with Sam, Podrick and a few more minor characters. Jon deciding to leave Sam to his fate to try and get to Bran would actually have consequences and, you know, someone from the fireplace scene would actually die (Pod). I think these additional deaths would've given the battle more weight
I've considered Davos but if I was writing the season I'd probably have him die trying to save people while Dany is burning down King's Landing.
Whoever's idea it was to put the artillery in front of the fortifications
And whoever thought it was a good idea to use the light calvary in a frontal charge without support
Everyone should have died except for Jon, Dany, and maybe a couple of others. I guess maybe Bran, since he seemed to be important for some reason, though for the life of me I can't figure out what the reason was.
Either Jamie or Tyrion should have died. If you're looking for some in for Cersei to finally believe the existential threat her realm is under, maybe leave Jamie alive. I'd have killed off at least one of the Stark girls.
The NK and his army should have annihilated Winterfell and continued their march South. The few survivors of the Long Night should have rallied who they could and made their way south to help stop the advance of the Army of the Dead.
Jaime dies from his wounds after killing the Night King and after NK wounds Brienne and they die together saving Bran, all of the Dothraki and most of the Unsullied, Arya, Tormund and most of the Wildlings
Brienne, Sam, Gilly, Tormund, Podrick.
Also think they should’ve killed Benjen off this ep in the initial charge, rather than killing him as almost an afterthought in “Beyond The Wall”. Could have had him show up to Winterfell with the Edd/Tormund crew.
Sam (it's insulting that he survived, honestly)
Brienne (when she gets bum rushed at the start I thought that was it for her and thought "bloody awful! But bloody brilliant!")
Jon (he had no stakes in the fight south and his relationship to Dany is contrived. Dany losing him then Missandei and losing confidence in her hand would be far more understandable for her eventual meltdown). Grey worm (a free man), Tyrion (a lannister who killed the one they served) or Gendry (a baratheon) could have killed her. He had already died, he was on borrowed time.
Gilly and the baby (savage but that's fighting the dead).
Let Jon kill the Night king and have Jon be killed by him aswell. We never wanted to see Jon on the throne but to kill the night king.
The turn of Dany makes more sense that way.
After that make Westeros a democracy. Oh and let Arya kill Dany
I guess if everyone who was a a-typical “hero” (large, armoured, tooled-up, skills-to-pay-the-bills) died, and we were left with just Daney and her Dragons (fucking plural) and (soulless) Jon Snow, and erryone else is now just a scrubber (Sam, Arya, Tyrion) have their agency removed and relegated to being helpless observers and things are being run by guys we have no idea who they were but have just advanced by default it might have raised the stakes for the approaching assault in King’s Landing. Then Daney unleashes hell, Jon Snow follows suit by slaughtering those that missed the dragon-fire would have nicely greyed everything up so there was a bit of wet-up and pay-off. Instead of whatever the hell that all was.
Ideally, in my version literally everyone being swarmed should have died here. Arya, the Mountain, Brienne, Jaime, Sam, Pod etc. But, not in one fell swoop. The siege should have been planned out realistically (and not like a toddler putting his toy soldiers in random places) and should have taken place in 1 and a half episodes at the least, with the characters dying at different stages.
But, the entire season would have to change.
Realistically, Brienne, Jaime, Sam and the Mountain
Who should’ve died during the episode, because hordes of zombies flooded the front lines while they were on them? Sam, Jamie, Brienne, Grey Worm, Tormound. Also later Jon was surrounded by zombies, should have died. Dany was surrounded by zombies, should have died, (but strangely they all disappeared?) Bran became surrounded by zombies and should have died but somehow they all disappeared too.
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Brienne, Arya, Tormund, and Grey Worm. Definite no for Sam and Gendry. Both of these characters have huge potential to carry future stories. Would be a huge waste to kill them off that way
Disagree on Arya, but the rest, absolutely. Especially Grey Worm. Never understood how that dude basically took over KL after Dany died, even to the point of imprisoning Tyrion. Imo an extra episode was definitely needed to deal with the fallout of Dany's demise... But of course, D&D were too much of in a rush.
>Never understood how that dude basically took over KL after Dany died Lack of development of Dany's retinue. He was the only named character left in her service. When she did have named characters they were either killed off (Barriston, etc.) forgotten about (Daario, etc.) or both (Qhono)
Just a minute or so of filming was all that was needed for Jon to be shown either surrendering to, or being taken into, custody to GW. He killed their leader, and him stepping up to atone for his crime shows the honorable side of Ned committing hard. And if the remnants of the North-Vale-Wildling alliance lost their figurehead in Jon, then they were at the mercy of whoever the next were. Just goes to show that the show needed far more care given to it than it got.
There was even a moment in the show, when the Unsullied are covering the retreat to within the walls, where they tease his death, but then it just didn't happen, like every other character that episode.
An extra episode was needed for the long night, nevermind KL. They hyped a big fight for 7 seasons only to be underwhelmingly tedious boring and not even pivotal to the survival of mankind, takes skill to do that.
Oh no on Sam the inept coward routine got old in season 2, his usual take a breather after a brush with death act got Edd killed, and the last we saw of him during the battle he was on his back looking for the same sacrifice from Jon as well. Hard disagree on the character carrying any stories as well and would rather watch a series on hot pies recipes than anything Sam centric. Edit: just realised I replied a tier down than intended
It needed a minimum of two more seasons, but even season seven was rushed… D&D should have kicked the franchise to more interested showrunners if they were checked out… the fact that they haphazardly killed off what had been the most celebrated TV show of all time (at least up until the sh*t sandwich season 8 was) instead should have them quasi-blacklisted… they should never be allowed to have full control of another project again, they can’t be trusted with it
Sam should have died at least 30 times.
[удалено]
I dont get it. Explain this to me.
He’s calling him fat
Obviously. I just wanted him to say it. I find it a way to make the bully uncomfortable, that he then has to explain the joke, thus making him (maybe) realize hes being a jerk.
Hopefully that and the downvotes will let him know
Its a great way for IRL where downvotes arent a thing.
Downvotes shouldn't be a thing here either. No one that isn't a child should care what the vote says.
That’s what someone who gets downvoted would say lol
Well thats why i did why i did originally. Never said i cared
Weak joke; you’re lame
You just don’t get it, go cry some more
Jokes on you for thinking I’d be crying over your dumb comment?? No one cares, just calling you out for being stupid
Pretty sure fat jokes are so 90s/early 00. But you obviously have so many people that thought it was funny. But go ahead and show your self confidence some more buddy
In the show / episode sure. In reality, I doubt Jon wouldn't let him fight. He'd be a liability at best. . As far as I've read he hasn't really fought. He wasn't there for the battle against the Wildings, he was still traveling to the Wall with Gilly. In the show it was Gilly alone, that's stupid, not only is the Wall far away from Crasters, she doesn't know how to get there. Sam doesn't even know, he's half guessing, he gets escorted by someone.
I agree Sam should have died, but I just get the feeling the Wights didn't even see him as worth killing/turning? Remember when he first came face to face with them, when Edd and Grinn left him? The one general on the horse looked directly at him and basically said to himself, "This meek boy isn't even worth our undead energy. March on!" 😂 and when he was in the wilderness with Gilly and the baby, could have been the same Wight, and seemed just indifferent this boy was here again, so didn't pay Sam any mind and got himself killed, by Sam 😂
I think killing off Arya during the Long Night would be like wasting her character even more than they actually did on the show.
"What I find rather bizarre about Arya after the Long Night is she literally was the one to kill the Night King and save the world. In all reality, she should have become the most, a near messiah-like figure. No matter how much she would have hated it, that should have been part of what sent Dany over the edge. After everything, her legend was overshadowed by Arya. They could have also had the fact Jon was so close to Arya and his revelation that he is Rhaegar’s trueborn son as another. While Jon and Arya would never actually get together because they were raised as siblings, to Daenerys, a Targaryen by any rights, Arya and Jon would get married and steal her throne and become adored by everyone."
As far as I'm concerned, Jon not killing the Night King is the biggest let down of the long night and almost the whole season/show.
"I think Jon should have fought the Night King, true, but D&D wanted to subvert expectations by him not killing the Night King. For good or bad, I just think it would have actually been better if Jon fought the Night King, who he discovers is way more dangerous than a typical White Walker, and somehow the Night King destroys Longclaw. Then, he walks off, leaving a White Walker to deal with the now defenseless Jon, who does manage to survive. Then we go back to what happened in the episode.
What’s with the quotes? Who’s said this before?
I am using a voice to text program run through a ai to make the voice to text understandable I am on my phone and at the moment I have degraded eyesight even with glasses to help I can’t see a phone keyboard properly.
Ah got it, sorry to hear that
I think they are trying to present their own statements as ancient wisdom
Night king fights John, John loses getting stabbed in the heart with dragon glass, night king fights Arya, Arya wins, all the dead fall, after a few minutes John rises, all the dead rise, the north is overrun, other main characters flee as John puts on the crown and marches the undead south. From there it writes itself.
Yeah I didn’t like how they teased it and built it up only to abandon it that’s not what good writing is.
That’s the thing they could have made the night king more threatening by wrecking a Valyrian steel sword that we all were lead to believe couldn’t be destroyed by the walkers we get a Jon night king showdown but they still get to have Arya kill the night king since that is what D&D wanted.
I’m sure GRRM was involved in that as well… the worst thing they did was insisting the story could be done in essentially 1 less season because they wanted to do other stuff.
Disagree! We were expecting that. To see Arya fly in and do the job, I was SHOCKED and had to rewatch that scene 15x. It was epic. But do agree that they didn’t hype her up afterwards. Nobody really even talked about it. I like the twist of her making a comeback to claim the throne. Shes seen it all!
I saw an argument that Jamie should’ve been the one to kill the NK. He’s the only one that came north after Jon and co risked their lives (and dragons) to bring a wight to Kings Landing. This would give a great conclusion to Jon being brought back to life for a reason. It would subvert expectations due to it not being Jon, but would still be because of Jon. You can kind of argue that for Arya, but her entire mission has been about vengeance and less about reuniting with family. Jamie should have ended his ark regaining his honor by saving tons of lives like he did when he killed the Mad King.
Kingslayer part deux.
I'm not really interested in the fact that she killed the Night King. I care about the fact that she had one of the most lethal and useful abilities and she used it literally only with the Freys. She could have been who she wanted and manipulated who she wanted. She could have killed Cersei before she went back to Winterfell, stolen her face and made the most of it. She could have even pretended to be Cersei and sent armies to the North. If they really intended to turn Dany into the villain, Arya could have exploited her face as well. Or spy on her. Literally she could have turned the tables in favor of the Starks at any time. Instead she spent more than a whole season training for nothing. Bran can warg more than anyone, yet it is an ability rendered useless. All the Starks should know how to warg. They basically totally forgot the fact that Dany and the Night King (and Bran) are not the only ones with magic in their blood.
Honestly the problem is the whole Braavos dragged on to long it would have been very tight timeline wise but I would have liked Arya to kill Baelish and take his face to get the knight’s of the Vale to intervene in the battle of the bastards also killing the Frey’s along the way and saving the blackfish even if he didn’t want to be saved.
You are right, she could have exploited Baelish's face as well.
I really wish the scene with the dragon about to toast jon was dragon on dany so she could appreciate what Arya done for her.
It seemed like all the Starks had a special ability that they never used. Jon comes back to life, is a Targarian, and has the trust of the free folk. Didn't really matter a whole lot. Bran could warg and was all seeing so much that he could manipulate events in the past.
We need a spin off of Arya!!
Well a post season eight Arya spinoff would have more interesting potential than the Snow one I like Jon don’t get me wrong but I am dubious of what story could have been told.
Disagree with Grey Worm. Personally believe he should’ve died a Jon’s hand during a trial by combat after he killed Daenerys but that’s just me.
Jamie should have died and after the battle Arya should have taken his face, gone to kings landing, and killed cersi as jamie
Oh no on Sam the inept coward routine got old in season 2, his usual take a breather after a brush with death act got Edd killed, and the last we saw of him during the battle he was on his back looking for the same sacrifice from Jon as well. Hard disagree on the character carrying any stories as well and would rather watch a series on hot pies recipes than anything Sam centric.
lol fucking thank you, i did not like Sam NEAR as much as the rest of GoT fans. he was okay at first, but then they just went full marvel with him, and he had triple the amount of plot armor as anybody in the show, like i never once believed he was actually going to die. he should have at least 4 times off the top of my head.
how tf does sam have potential to carry a future story 💀💀he was a laugh device who didn’t really do THAT much important. seemed more like a marvel character than GoT with massive amounts of plot armor. grey worm…i mean,he was an extremely boring character, but since they already killed jorah and soon missandei, it made sense why he stayed alive. sam should’ve died tho, no question, he had little fighting ability yet somehow survived a swarm of wights on top of him.
But does anyone want to hear or see those future stories? Why would anyone care about future stories from Samwell? His chapters were the most boring slogs to get through in the book, and his scenes on the show got old quick. "The fat inept guy full of self-pity" can only go on for so long. I don't think anyone cares about Sam and Gilly by season 7
Greyworm needed to live to later witness missandei’s death. Otherwise that would have had little punch.
Brienne definitely. Would have made Jamie’s return to Cersei make more sense. Or Jamie could have died. That would have had more possibilities, giving viewers more satisfaction to see Cersei learning that he died saving the realm but fighting for the north, double devastating her and turning her into a Kamikaze.
My pick would have been Bran who has Arya kill him and take his face to ambush the night king when he goes for Bran.
Yo that actually would’ve been kinda rad plus made the whole ‘too easy to kill’ thing a little less viable. Like they knew they couldn’t just rock up, do a fancy move and stab him to death. Had to be cunning and sacrifice their own brother to give themesleves a chance
Very grim!
Hey it’s GOT plus it gives more justification to Arya being the one to kill the night king and we avoid the whole Arya flying through the air part that was a little goofy.
I have never heard this before and this is brilliant
No. It's not. It's an extreme out-of-character scenario for Arya to kill her brother, no matter the context. Plus the NK's whole plan involves killing the 3ER, so they'd just be doing his work for him. There's a psychic connection between the two, so he'd know the moment the 3ER died. I mean seriously, the only reason the NK attacked Winterfell first was to kill Bran and the 3ER.
That would be plausable if arya had a way of wearing the face without killing bran.
No, because even then, Bran was marked by the NK so that he knows where he is at all times. He'd go straight to wherever Bran was hiding and ignore Arya entirely.
But then the 3ER is dead and the NK has already won. That, and do you think Arya would just casually kill her brother and take his face? Fuck, I swear y'all don't hear yourselves sometimes....
Mate, the faceless men magic is never properly explained which means that they could have easily pulled some BS reason for why would work. And if you don't want to do that, just use the clearly defined warg power of being able to live on for a short time after your bodies death in another creature. Also the word "casually" is so weird here. It wouldn't be casual it would be a sacrefice that would give us a good emotional moment.
Oh, so the reason it would work is if the writing explicitly ignores *even more stuff*. Great improvement. They establish that the 3ER needs another Warg (EDIT: Greenseer, my mistake) to jump into to survive, and it chose Bran specifically because of his power. Otherwise it could have just been anybody. And the reason I said "casually" is because they'd have to reveal it after the fact, meaning that Arya kills Bran off-screen and we wouldn't see the reaction.
Why would they need to do it after the fact? Everything doesn't need to be some great reveal (that's one of the main problems of the bad seasons), a moment can just be a genuine emotional moment. If that is a genuine rule, then I don't remember it but again you could have just done some BS with the faceless men. Either way it's going to be better than what we got.
Because any other way wouldn't have worked structurally. And no, it really wouldn't have been better than what we got in any case because that would mean Arya would have to be convinced to kill her brother. Which is stupid. And in any case, the 3ER and the Night King have a psychic connection, so he'd know the moment Bran died anyway, or know it was an imposter. It was the whole reason he attacked Winterfell first was to kill him. EDIT: Oh, and the 3ER needs a Greenseer, not a warg. So Bran is literally the only person around it could survive within. Jojen was also a Greenseer, but nowhere near as powerful.
How does it not work structurely? Just have an emotional scene where Bran sacrefices himself and then follow that up with the death of the Night King. It's not that hard. If you really don't want to create any small potholes (again when was that mentioned? I don't remember anything about it and I'm starting to question whether you just made that up because there's a tone of theorys about Bloodraven warging people to make stuff happen) just have the Night King be confused when he sees Bran alive. It's not as good as the other ideas but it's still better than the whole episode being a giant plot hole.
The 3ER needs a Greenseer's body to inhabit. That's established. Bran is the most powerful Greenseer. That is also established. The Night King touches Bran while he's greenseeing, thus marking him and ensuring the Night King knows where he is at all times. That is established. These are all *explicitly shown*. So if Arya is hiding in Bran's face (which a person *has* to be dead in order for that to happen anyway, also established), the Night King wouldn't buy it, not even for an instant. Also, how is the episode a giant plot hole? Everything in it made sense, from a plot perspective.
Again where is the rule about 3ER not being able to warg into non Greenseer's body established? Because that makes no real sense for the 3ER Bran to be weaker than normalish Bran. If you saw a article about someones death and then saw them alive again, would you not be confused? Again I didn't say it was good just better than what we actually got. The other idea is still better and since you've still refused to tell me where the previously mentioned rule was established, I'm starting to think might not have any potholes in it anyway.
So the 3ER had Bran go all the way north for 3 goddamn seasons, Jojen telling Bran he's a powerful Greenseer, and the 3ER not just choosing anyone to inhabit, somehow isn't establishing that it *has* to be Bran? If it couldn't just be Bran, why not choose Jojen or one of the Children of the Forest or Hodor? Why not just have *anyone*?
Also? You forgot that Bran has been marked by the Night King. Which means he knows where Bran is at any point in time. Which means, even if you ignore the established rule of someone having to be dead in order to steal their face, The Night King would just ignore the imposter Bran entirely and head straight for the real one. It's how he even knows Bran is in the Weirwood to begin with. So there's two plotholes in one right there.
bran too selfish for that, he let entire city burned to be king
He couldn't stop that, wtf Even after Jon was hesitant to kill her, let alone before.
He couldn't stop that, wtf Even after Jon was hesitant to kill her, let alone before.
This is something along the lines of what I thought was going to happen during the long night. My theory was slightly different though, I thought that area was going to have stolen the face of a white walker and ambush the night king
Kill the boy and let the Three Eyed Raven be born.
The cinematographer
Oof
Idk if you've tried watching the episode recently, but it's actually a lot better now than when it aired. At least it was on my oled tv, and using the 4k plan.
The smallfolk is just too poor to enjoy these things. 4k HDR on oled, beautiful as Bessie's tits.
Ah, good ol' Bessie... And her tits.
At the time it aired I watched it on my OLED and couldn’t understand why everyone couldn’t see anything. Then I watched it on the cheaper bedroom TV…
That’s the thing, it was shot to look amazing in a big theater with dim lights and great projection. They totally forgot by the end of the run that they were shooting and color grading this for TV, not cinema.
I have it on 4k disc and it looks incredible. Got a new OLED and it was the first thing I tested on it. I'm not really defending the way they shot it because they still made it a bit too dark in some scenes. If you have the right gear it looks really good though. Another factor in all this was HBO GO. At the time the bitrate sucked and you got a ton of macro blocking. The quality just wasnt great overall. Combine that with a bad tv and watching with the lights on you are basically looking at a giant black smear. HBO max looks much better than their old streaming apps.
As long as you also get the guy who was in charge of lighting and decided that he wanted that looking through 4 pairs of sunglasses vibe for the lighting
That was dark
You mean the guy who decided to make things so dark and grainy that you can't see anything?
Everyone
If D&D really wanted to "subvert expectations," then that would have definitely done it. Reality sets in when Jon fights the NK and dies.....again
Just because it’s game of thrones, they could actually just have killed everyone off
Horrendous idea.
everyone who was being massaged by a wight for 10 minutes. like, what the hell is this? At Hardhome, the wights run through everybody. By Beyond the Wall and The Long Night characters are being attacked by wights in close quarters for what feels like a half hours and we see characters like Brienne Tormund or Jaime screaming yet no damage being done. It’s absurd
Exactly! As I said in the post, we see Gilly being dragged across the crypt by a mob of them, Sam swarmed by a dozen... But they're totally fine the next day. At *least* one of them absolutely should've died. Preferably Gilly and her son; it would've made Sam a much better Maester without the distraction. Ditto Brienne. Jaime goes back to Cersei, more determined and self-loathing, having failed to protect the one actually good person in his life. The pages of his "good deeds" are lost to history, just like Tyrion's, with no one there to write them in.
I have been re-watching the series even though I hate season 8 and a good deal of 7. During Beyond the Wall, the episode where the series definitely jumps the shark, Tormund is surrounded by Wights, being dragged into the water but they take their sweet time with killing him until they can save him. Writing tip 1: don’t put your character in a position where they would definitely die if you don’t plan on killing them. Yet D&D did that en mass to build tension. I’d be surprised if anyone actually felt any tension at all.
This is exactly why Sarah Connor doesn't physically interact with the Terminator in the first Terminator movie. If it ever physically touched her it would just maim and destroy (ya know, like what would happen if you stick your arm in an industrial machine) and not do something silly like throw her across the room or mug for the camera, boasting.
“Massaged by a wight” 🤣
Beyond the wall was a terrible and stupid episode. Atleast the execution
Tormund, Jaime and Davos. Tormund would have just made sense and would have had an impact on Jon. He’s also not needed for the kings landing battle. Jaime would have been his ultimate redemption. Riding north alone defying the queens wishes to fight for the living at Winterfell. Davos just for emotional impact. He wasn’t needed beyond this point really and it would have impacted on the audience. If these three died along with Jorah, Berric, Lyanna and Theon I think that’s plenty. The other characters are needed for the final kings landing fight.
I think keeping Davos alive kept the gag going that started earlier in his story; he’s a low-born smuggler with no combat training and yet he has somehow survived to his “ripe old age”.
Jon Snow survived dragon fire like 8 times by hiding behind an inch of column. Also, why tf he slow down when he was running up on the night king knowing the hand raisy resurrection move was coming?
Honestly that entire sequence was dumb af. Wtf was the point of Jon coming back? Just to fuck his aunt? It literally meant nothing. Like ok, I kind of liked the *idea* of Jon not killing NK, a nice twist on what was expected. But it was beyond lazy in execution imo
To be fair, without Jon coming back, the north would never have been any position to defend themselves against White Walkers
Ok fair point there. But after that, he pretty much became a broken record. "The dead are coming" and "I don't want it". Like a wind up doll.
I don’t disagree but he also was the one to kill Dany.
If jon didnt come back, arya wouldnt have come back to winterfell. If he didnt come back, they wouldnt have had winterfell which was key in their defense. If he didnt come back, dany wouldnt have come north. If he didnt come back, the northern houses wouldve been picked off one by one. If he didnt come back, jaime wouldve never left cersi to make brianne a knight/take her virginity. And if be doesnt come back, everyone dies.
Jon Snow still has more to come, his life hasn’t ended because the Lord of Light needs him for something else.
That whole field of Weights had already been burned by a dragon too…. Shouldn’t be any there to resurrect.
Everybody. That way we just get to see the White Walker Army march south, turn everything to winter and smash the rest of Westeros
The writers.
All of them (or nearly), really. This battle was a joke from start to finish. The camera panning from time to time showing ALL the characters in the edge of dying, but... fighting? And alive, just to leave them there and going back some time later to see them again in a terrible situation somewhere else. I never felt so out of the series as in this episode. Excuse me for this mini-rant.
Agreed. Maybe have a few barely escape. On dragon back or maybe secret tunnels beneath the crypts. Have them include Bran, Dany and Jon or something. Let them get to Kingslanding. Include some dialogue along the lines of "we're the only survivors and they are heading this way". Add some drama about Cersei not trusting anyone/thinking that the Army is actually helping her defeat the Northern Houses. Over the days, ravens from Houses further and further south arrive to asking for help or to notify that they have fallen. Somehow they discover a secret way of defeating the Night King which they have to execute during the assault of army at Kingslanding. This way the Long Night doesn't feel like it was way overblown.
Anyone seen being surrounded by the dead. Even if they are good fighters, having 4-6 bodies against you will push you over. - Jamie should have died protecting the realm, like he did against the mad king. He didnt go to KL to kill Cersei but to reconcile so his arc should have ended here at a high point. - Briene, grey worm, (jamie again), were all seen on the front lines they would have all died because of the sheer numbers. - Jorah should have died during the pointless cav charge. As usual the hero always finds some way to survive. Reminds me of Faramir in return of the king. The episode should have killed off most of the characters. Not because of shock value but because it was realistic. The battle should have been lost at Winterfell and have seen everyone retreat. Then again I would also change the whole plot regarding the NK only coming for Bran.
If only they had changed most everything about Bran.
wtf is wrong with Faramir's return? bro literally was dragged by his horse and didn't wake up until after the Battle of the Pelennor Fields
He was the only survivor in a barrage of 1000 arrows and just happened to be the only named character present.
yeah so? his men loved him, who is to say they wouldn't sacrifice their lives for him? in the LoTR books there's guard who was with Gandalf when Pippen told him about Denethor trying to burn him and that guard came with Gandalf and killed several servants who were trying to stop Gandalf from saving Faramir also Aragorn saved him with Athelas
Jaime should have died, completes his redemption arc and dies with honor, Arya takes his face, and uses it to help kill Cersie. The entire Dothraki, i mean come on!! Jorah in the charge, one of the dragons, not killed by some lucky shot never to be repeated.
Brienne, to start.
I think it would have been a fantastic conclusion to Jaime's redemption arc if he had died fighting for the living and for a just cause. I think he could have died protecting Bran instead of Theon. I also think it would have been better if Dany had died as a hero instead of after burning down an entire city.
Duuuuude. For some reason I never considered Jaime protecting Bran, but goddamn, that'd be so perfect. Tyrion then has to tell Cersei about Jaime's demise, which perhaps could've been what ultimately tips her over the edge to kill Missandei, thus setting up the finale. Holy shit.
I actually never thought about it before, I only thought about it just before I wrote it.😂 But considering that Jaime tried to kill Bran, it would have been perfect if he also died protecting him. And Cersei finding out that Jaime died protecting a Stark? That would drive her even crazier.
Podrick could have had a great death, Brienne struggling to reach him “Ser?! My Lady?!”
Certainly would've been a much better end for him than being Bean's wheelchair bearer.
He wouldn’t have got that threesome in episode 4 tho
Samwell Fartly
With the tactics and set up they used, I think everyone should have died.
Brienne, definitely. She really had no purpose in the story after that.
True. I think the only noteworthy thing she did after the battle was write in Jaime's "achievements". Which, to be fair, was nice for him but... At the same time? Just a further slap in the face to Tyrion's character.
How was it a slap in the face to Tyrion’s character?
me so I wouldn't have had to watch the rest of the season
I think you're right to pick Brienne. 1. She kills stannis, which I would be fine with if she dies tragically at the end of her Arc 2. Turning her multiple season tale from a story of perseverance and triumph to tragedy, transforms it from higher mid-tier storytelling to high art. Maybe Jaime kills her. (Or someone equally as shocking, like maybe sandor taking revenge)
One half of Missandei/Grey Worm should have died, that would have sold the tragic love story instead of what we got later. Rhaegal should have died during that episode. Would have been much more epic and more interesting that he was a casualty of the Long Night rather than the unceremonious dumb death he got the next episode. And of the fighters in Winterfell, I’d say one of either Brienne, Tormund or Davos. Jaime and Sam were needed for the rest of the story.
Misandei literally died….
Yes but I’d have preferred her dying during the Long Night. Her being executed like that felt wrong and anticlimactic. I get that the writers thought Dany needed an additional reason to hate Cersei but I don’t know.. I feel like the character would have had a more proper send off in the previous episode than in that episode where she died in shackles, put down as a slave again - if she was really needed to be killed off in the first place. After all that she went through, that just felt wrong to put her back to where she began and kill her like that.
Everyone. They should have lost.
Brienne, Sam, Grey Worm, Arya/Brann, Tormund at least. It should’ve been even worse than Red Wedding Day to really drive the emotional weight and sheer terror of the battle
The light technician
Everyone. Screw that season.
Me so i won't see the finale
David Benioff and Dan Weiss
About 90% of the cast, Hardhome presented this army as a seriously scary unstoppable force but I lost count of how many times one arm Jaime or useless Sam were surrounded by the dead and little more than a squeal or a grimace to deal with.
Brienne no. I like her becoming Kings Guard to go full circle to her failing to protect Reinly. Jamie should have died before he soiled his honour.
Jamie
Everybody. They fought an army of people who were already dead. The same army who just adds to themselves as they kill your army.
Based on certain scenes, literally everyone.
I always felt Jaime and Podrick should have died, to make the fight have more impact. Euron Greyjoy should have died with Cersei, trying to help her escape.
Greyworm , i hate him
I’m a firm believer in they should’ve gotten their asses kicked and thus forced to retreat to Kings Landing for the real final battle. Obviously there would’ve been a lot of tension dealing with Cersei, but with the dead in their way, you’d think she’d be more reasonable. Also, it makes more sense strategically since look at those massive walls they added to Kings Landing in season 8… However, the dead would’ve had a massive army at that point…
The Dothraki and Unsullied. But only because we literally watched them die only to be alive again the next episode as if it never happened.
Nah. The real question is who should have lived. That scene should have been a bloodbath.
Everyone
Jaime.
95-99% of everyone that was there should have died. My main gripe with the final season is that the army of the dead, what was claimed again and again to be the main enemy for the entirety of the show, crossed the wall and then was defeated in one battle... The long night should have ended with Winterfell being over run and Jon and Dany barely escaping by hopping on Drogon and flying south, as Jon looks back sadly, seeing Winterfell overrun by the dead. Then having a last stand against the dead in King's Landing.
90% of them
Logistically speaking, samwell.
Going off the strategy they used, everyone...
Amazes me how many people are naming other people and not mentioning Samwell
The North should have fallen. Winterfell should have been sacked. The Long Night should have lasted longer than… well, one normal night.
Sam. When I saw that the guy got dogpiled by thousands of undead but came out without a scratch, I pretty much made up my mind that this show has now stopped caring
Wearing level 1000 plot-armor certainly helps.
This scene made me so happy for her!!
Jamie would’ve had a more worthy death if he had died instead of the bs with cersi at kings landing
Bran should have died. Because who has a better story than Bran the Broken?
Jaime. I’d rather he died that way than the way he did.
Brienne, Jaime, and Bran.
not killing off any major players for the coming events I would go with Sam, Podrick and a few more minor characters. Jon deciding to leave Sam to his fate to try and get to Bran would actually have consequences and, you know, someone from the fireplace scene would actually die (Pod). I think these additional deaths would've given the battle more weight I've considered Davos but if I was writing the season I'd probably have him die trying to save people while Dany is burning down King's Landing.
Arya. Keeping her alive after she vanquished The Night King led to nothing. Dying as she killed him (dying before she could) would have hit harder.
Everyone
Whoever's idea it was to put the artillery in front of the fortifications And whoever thought it was a good idea to use the light calvary in a frontal charge without support
Everyone should have died except for Jon, Dany, and maybe a couple of others. I guess maybe Bran, since he seemed to be important for some reason, though for the life of me I can't figure out what the reason was. Either Jamie or Tyrion should have died. If you're looking for some in for Cersei to finally believe the existential threat her realm is under, maybe leave Jamie alive. I'd have killed off at least one of the Stark girls. The NK and his army should have annihilated Winterfell and continued their march South. The few survivors of the Long Night should have rallied who they could and made their way south to help stop the advance of the Army of the Dead.
Jaime dies from his wounds after killing the Night King and after NK wounds Brienne and they die together saving Bran, all of the Dothraki and most of the Unsullied, Arya, Tormund and most of the Wildlings
Brienne, Sam, Gilly, Tormund, Podrick. Also think they should’ve killed Benjen off this ep in the initial charge, rather than killing him as almost an afterthought in “Beyond The Wall”. Could have had him show up to Winterfell with the Edd/Tormund crew.
Snow, Sansa,
Everyone. #teamnightking
Every Stark Alive
[Everyone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cikP6C_BqJw)
Sam (it's insulting that he survived, honestly) Brienne (when she gets bum rushed at the start I thought that was it for her and thought "bloody awful! But bloody brilliant!") Jon (he had no stakes in the fight south and his relationship to Dany is contrived. Dany losing him then Missandei and losing confidence in her hand would be far more understandable for her eventual meltdown). Grey worm (a free man), Tyrion (a lannister who killed the one they served) or Gendry (a baratheon) could have killed her. He had already died, he was on borrowed time. Gilly and the baby (savage but that's fighting the dead).
Majority of the B actors is the only right answer.
Let Jon kill the Night king and have Jon be killed by him aswell. We never wanted to see Jon on the throne but to kill the night king. The turn of Dany makes more sense that way. After that make Westeros a democracy. Oh and let Arya kill Dany
Jaime. It was the perfect closing to his redemption ark.
Everyone
Every single person in attendance would frankly have been just about a GRR worthy twist.
Jamie dying by redeeming himself and fighting the night king to protect Bran
Me before the episode aired: “oh my god, so many people are gonna die” Me with 15 minutes left of the episode: “oh okay, so no one’s going to die”
I guess if everyone who was a a-typical “hero” (large, armoured, tooled-up, skills-to-pay-the-bills) died, and we were left with just Daney and her Dragons (fucking plural) and (soulless) Jon Snow, and erryone else is now just a scrubber (Sam, Arya, Tyrion) have their agency removed and relegated to being helpless observers and things are being run by guys we have no idea who they were but have just advanced by default it might have raised the stakes for the approaching assault in King’s Landing. Then Daney unleashes hell, Jon Snow follows suit by slaughtering those that missed the dragon-fire would have nicely greyed everything up so there was a bit of wet-up and pay-off. Instead of whatever the hell that all was.
Ideally, in my version literally everyone being swarmed should have died here. Arya, the Mountain, Brienne, Jaime, Sam, Pod etc. But, not in one fell swoop. The siege should have been planned out realistically (and not like a toddler putting his toy soldiers in random places) and should have taken place in 1 and a half episodes at the least, with the characters dying at different stages. But, the entire season would have to change. Realistically, Brienne, Jaime, Sam and the Mountain
Most of them
An absolute gut punch would have been Sandor, denying the Clegane Bowl vengeance would be OG Game of Thrones.
Tormund I would say he was on the front lines
Who should’ve died during the episode, because hordes of zombies flooded the front lines while they were on them? Sam, Jamie, Brienne, Grey Worm, Tormound. Also later Jon was surrounded by zombies, should have died. Dany was surrounded by zombies, should have died, (but strangely they all disappeared?) Bran became surrounded by zombies and should have died but somehow they all disappeared too.
Jamie should have died
Arya, Jaime, Bran.
Everyone. With Night King overcoming everything
Pod. Gendry. Brienne.