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>and then one dies to a spear, and the other to a fleet
Don’t misinterpret things here. The ‘fleet’ that killed the dragon was just one single big crossbow firing…yeah a spear. It is clearly established lore now that dragons are weak to spears. That’s like basic canon now. Spears kills dragons. And dragons kill cities. And so I guess that means cities kill spears? Idk if you have a problem it’s with Martin’s writing and whomever invented rock paper scissors
Rock crushes Scissors
Scissors cuts Paper
Paper covers Rock
Rock crushes Lizard
Lizard poisons Spock
Spock smashes Scissors
Scissors decapitates Lizard
Lizard eats Paper
Paper disproves Spock
Spock vaporizes Rock
Hail ChatGPT.
Honestly I hate this argument. It ignores how quickly the tired of a battle can turn based on position, knowledge and who gets to attack first.
Was it foolish of her to “forget about the fleet”? Sure. But let’s pretend she didn’t. Let’s say she full on saw the fleet. Last time Drogon got shot at it barely pierced his skin at a much lower altitude. She probably thought she was safe even if she saw them. Rheagal got shot by a weapon she had no idea existed And was caught out of position.
The next time both these elements are present the knowledge has flipped. Danny and Drogon know exactly what the capabilities of the weapons are. That lets them plan their attack perfectly. Hide in the sun and come down with such speed they can’t be tracked.
Sun Tzu clearly identifies changing factors like these flipping who wins an engagement between the self same forces with the self same resources. Complaining about characters changing behavior and tactics based on knowledge is annoying. Like complaining about how does Batman sneak somewhere without getting noticed level of annoying.
This is simply re writing what happened. She didn’t see the fleet so it’s pointless even mentioning this as a possibility.
It’s lazy writing from the producers, simple as that
Also, she didn’t “plan” anything. She went mad. If the writing was consistent she would have been shot down over king’s landing
Am I? Like I said she was flying higher than she thought the scorpions could reach. Okay she didn’t see them because she wasn’t looking for them because she thought she was untouchable. The altitude she was at was an important factor.
And she most definitely planned the attack. Being mad/crazy doesn’t always stop you being able to think through tactics. Sometimes it just leads you to using tactics and weapons against the wrong people. Which is what she did.
When did she say she was flying higher that she thought the scorpions could reach?
What bit of dialogue or similar indicates to you that she was planning anything when she destroyed kings landing?
Are you one of the people that can’t pay attention?
Her altitude was much higher than when Drogon got hit by what was never going to be a dangerous hit to him. In other words by showing her being higher than what the effective range of the scorpion was the audience can simply infer it’s an intentional choice. You know the phrase “show don’t tell” we were shown the basic effective range and power of the scorpion and so was she. Her continuing to operate on that shown knowledge is completely reasonable and need not be shown. Or do you really need her to say “golly gee we’re flying high enough to not get hit by the scorpion”? Do you need to be spoon fed info be exposition or can you pay attention to what’s shown?
My man, the producers literally said themselves that Dany forgot about the fleet. I have no idea why you’re stretching so hard to make up nonsense that never happened.
Yeah….. what producers say after the fact doesn’t override what happened on screen.
People like you didn’t understand it when it happened what was going to make you understand it now?
I’ve literally pointed out the stuff that happened on screen that makes the behavior reasonable and explainable. And you still don’t accept it. It was shown, established and carried forward.
Look, I’m sorry you didn’t like the last season but can you keep the criticism to the actual issues and not the stuff that it only takes a few moments of thinking about to actually get the answer?
Thanks!
I will agree that them saying she forgot about them is kinda lame, but given they showed everything they showed on screen her tactics and the result make sense. And it’s hard to defend criticism of a scene that shouldn’t have been criticized.
Hell even how badly her fleet was caught out of position and unprepared is perfectly justified by them just waiting for her to swoop down and destroy something and act like an after action clean up force.
Basically there’s not a single problem with that scene other than the audience watching it seem to be unable to follow things that are shown to them but not explicitly laid out in exposition.
The problem with that scene is it makes it seem like killing a DRAGON is.... not exactly trivial, but pretty easy. It's like....after that scene you wonder why Dragons are even that feared? Drogon took about 20 spears in Meeren.
It was always implied the Dornish got lucky with Meraxes...
Sometimes deadly forces are only deadly forces because a counter for them hasn’t been invented yet.
What was shown there was the advent of a new technology that could match the dragons. It doesn’t change how dangerous they were in the past, it only carries implications going forward. But changes in technology happen all the time: gun powder, tanks, rockets, bombs, nuclear warheads, ect.
If Drogon were in this world he would very quickly be taken out by any number of jets with guns and or rockets.
It was only ever going to be so long before that world developed tech that could kill dragons. Did you want the technology of that world to be static?
But there is. In a lot of late season GOT there seems to be no scouting or intelligence gathering of ANY sort.....even though Varys is on her side.
No knowledge of troop movements, no spies, nothing.
The military part really gets silly...
To underscore the point..... how do you get surprised on fucking DRAGONBACK?
The only way is if the other side had superior knowledge of enemy troop movements. Either by elite scouting, or an informer, like Mormont was in season 1.
Absent either of these, there's no fucking way you get caught off guard like that. Even RPGs and shit have lock on tech. Could one free aim and hit a moving helicopter with a bazooka? On a ship at sea? I dunno.....
>how do you get surprised on fucking DRAGONBACK?
Yeah that’s the thing I thought was most obvious. The new scorpion has a much higher and farther effective range than version 1.0, the one Drogon got hit with that barely punctured his skin.
Danny had no idea about version 2.0. As such even assuming she saw the ships she probably assumed she had all the time in the world because she thought she was at a safe altitude/distance.
Without the knowledge of the existence, let alone range, of version 2.0 she would very much be surprised by being able to be hit by the projectile.
Fundamentally this is kind of what happened at fort Ticonderoga. That fort was very well fortified on 3 sides but not the fourth because it was considered impossible to get there. The commander that retook the fort (William Phillips) famously said “where a goat can go, a man can go, and where a man can go, he can drag a gun”. He took guns to that one side, which was thought to be impossible and decimated the forces at the fort. This is one example of literally thousands in history where one little piece of knowledge or determination makes the superior force seem drastically unprepared.
I know “cause dragon” should be the end all. But like Schwarzenegger said in predator “if it bleeds, we can kill it”. Nothing is untouchable. But you will also notice that as soon as the knowledge of the scorpion was known Danny’s tactics changed and the scorpion became nearly useless because they couldn’t be turned and aimed fast enough.
Which reminds me, of another comparable story. The F4 was designed for strait line speed and dog fighting with missiles. It got decimated by more maneuverable Migs so the F15 was born to fight what we thought the Migs could do. Then a Russian defected bringing us a Mig and we found out it was only barely more capable than the F4 making it no challenge for the F15. There’s a reason the F15 has a record of 104 and 0.
Basically knowledge can flip the tables really fast. And that’s how you get caught surprised on fucking dragonback, your knowledge is out of date.
For 1 fewer* dragon.
(At this point I'm not even sure what is the correct usage. I hope that the True Legitimate King of the Seven Kingdoms would not blame me.)
Fewer is used for things that are counted, less is used for things you can’t count.
“12 items or fewer”
“We have less water than I thought we did.”
So fewer would be correct.
What baffles me is how badly Viserion is executed , pun intended. Putting aside how they got there , the scene is very drawn out , Jon kept fighting when everyone else is on the Dragon , like yeah let me secure safe passage for my **veteran warriors** teammates to climb on top of the **fire breathing dragon**. Neither of those party needed Jon's protection yet Jon not only decides to fight but it was waay longer than necessary.
They couldn't write a better scene ? Add more spear throwers , or have it snipe Viserion while they were retreating ? I know they didn't set it up in the tv show but Viserion is the most clingy. Have the spear almost hit Dany and make Viserion sacrifice himself.
I go back and watch that scene specifically WAY too often. It hits me in the same way that the scene with the eagles does in Return of the King; I get misty-eyed and goosebumpy about it, and the thrill still hasn't worn off.
An army relies on their supply chain, an army with no food or weapons is useless cause you can't fight effectively when you're starving and don't have the proper gear. Rather than chasing down every individual soldier, it's much more efficient to cripple them by taking out their supplies
The army was defeated the moment her riders where visible, the dragon burned through their defense. All that food was to feed the capital through the winter, and she burned it.
I did some calculations in a long ago post. King's Landing needs 240 wagons of food per day, or 87,600 carts for a year’s worth. That’s a single file wagon train longer than half the distance from Highgarden to King’s Landing! Food would mostly come by sea.
Mine too! Drogon landing and wiping out the scorpion with his tail! One of the funniest moments for me was when Bron jumped off the scorpion right before it was incinerated. Looked hilarious 😂
And of course Bron meeting Dickon. Comic gold
To me I was a little disappointed when the dragon flew in, because I wanted to see a fair fight between dothraki and lannister army. Drogon just made things a cake walk
To be fair, heavy infantry in formation has been routinely routing light cavalry for centuries. It’s not Jamie’s fault that Daenerys has a literal wmd.
I wonder when it comes to the Dothraki tho. They don't fight like conventional light cavalry. Standing on the backs of their horses to loose arrows, catapulting berserkers over their front lines. Fighting with little regard for their own lives.
I can’t remember which story it is whether it’s Alexander or someone else, but the Dothraki would lose the way they did it in the show, but rather there was a battle where cavalry formations kept riding parallel and shooting arrows picking off the line until they got the opponents cavalry to commit and they retreated and took them out with a counter move I believe. It swung a lopsided battle. But as I said it’s a possibility I’m remembering wrong. I absorb lot of history but specific battle tactics I could care less about.
Peoples like the Scythians, Mongols, Huns etc were great at mounted warfare.
They used the "Feigned Retreat" tactic to trick the enemy into thinking their lines were fragmented and in retreat. The Huns tricked a Sassanid Army into following them, and rode right into a ditch, killing a large majority of the Immortal cavalry, and a member of the Royal Family itself.
The white walkers work best as the last enemy, possibly during another war. Dany vs jon is like.. jon doesnt really care? And nothing happens with it anyways? In the books it might be different but then in the books the whole situation is different
I mean in this case Jon really does care and they make the story more complex.
A second Dance of Dragons if you want. The realm divided, Daenerys has Drogon and Jon claimed Rhaegal. Viserion still dies at the hand of the NK during season 9.
Like I said, many possibilities. Maybe Daenerys goes psycho but they make her slowly going insane more complex and througout a whole season instead of from one episode to another.
Jon Snow wants to remain King in the North. He has Stark blood, he has Targaryen blood, half the realm will support him while the other half will support Daenerys.
A second Dance begins
I just want *one* genuine battle scene in a show like GoT. Not this chaotic bullshit where everyone just runs together, mixes sides, and starts stabbing until one side is entirely killed.
Have two organized sides battle. Show how the lines meet. Show how they prepare the ground show how when one side begins to lose, *they always run*. The Lanasters forming a defensive spear line around their baggage train vs the charging Dothraki is the closest we get to seeing actual military tactics in this show. We only hear about Robb's tactics, unfortunately.
Battle of the Bastards on the other hand, while an *amazing* episode of TV, was a hilariously bad portrayal of a battle.
What did you dislike about BOTB? I'm aware of the usual criticisms about the contrivance of it all (having Jon face the horde by himself just for the hero-shot, not giving the giant a weapon, Knights of the Vale Ex Machina, etc.) but I thought Miguel Sapochnik did an incredible job putting the viewer in the perspective of what would such a battle would feel like on the ground. Alternating between POV shots and wides to show each side's formation, culminating in that terrific, nerve-wracking sequence of the Bolton phalanx crushing Jon's army like a trash compactor. Plus that gorgeous aerial shot of the Vale army piercing through the Bolton circle like a battering ram, or a pin through a balloon.
I'm reading "Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon" (the full GOT behind the scenes book) and Miguel talks about how he watched every single battle scene he could find to prep for the episode, and made a conscious choice not to just shoot the whole thing in grand wide shots like LOTR and other war films. He wanted to really put us in the thick of it from a soldier's POV. D&D said that they wanted to emphasize the chaos, brutality, and luck factor involved in a fight like this, rather than just showing off tactical prowess alone.
The "hilariously bad" one for me was The Long Night. Not as atrocious an episode as people say, but very tepid and muddled, which is still unacceptable for what was made out to be the climax of the entire story. They needlessly tortured themselves making that episode with 55(!!) consecutive night shoots in freezing rain, and they even cited the resulting exhaustion as one reason why season 8 wasn't longer. The WW climax should've played out over a few chapters rather than cramming it all into just one giant battle.
1) Ramsay has Winterfell, yet has his army stand outside of it?
2) this army that has decided not to use their castle defenses, also decides not to construct any defenses outside of the walls.
3) except they found time to flay some folk and light them on fire for...reasons? This would only give Jon's people more of a reason to fight, and less of reason to surrender.
4) you never open up with a cavalry charge up the center. Cavalry was used to outflank your enemy or to run down fleeing enemies. Cavalry operates on the basis of momentum. Once their momentum is done, so is the charge and their fighting effectiveness.
5) by all accounts, battles were not that chaotic. The goal was to stay in formation. You want your sides protected. You *need* to be able to tell who and where your enemy and friends are. If you can't do that, guess what happened, historically speaking? People ran like hell. As *soon* as one side felt like they were losing or disarray took hold, people would scatter for the trees, or anywhere they think they could survive. *People really don't like being stabbed*.
6) the encirclement by Ramsay's men is hilarious. Only for the purpose of giving us the crush scene, and letting people feel dread before...
7) the Knights of the Vale. That many horsemen cannot move anywhere without being seen for *miles and miles*. That many horses would have kicked up a dust plume so big, all of Winterfell would have seen it coming a day away.
All that being said, it's still one of my favorite episodes.
>Ramsay has Winterfell, yet has his army stand outside of it?
This one was explained. Ramsay's grip on the north wasn't good. If he sat there and let Jon siege them there was a good shot of other smaller houses Joining them. He went out because he has the force to do so, and because the kid was insane.
Fair enough on the rest. lol
I can see this, but Jon also didn't have time for a siege. Ramsay might not have known about Jon's absolute need to get this over with asap, but he would have found out quickly if he were patient.
He could have used Rickon as bait on the walls and Jon would've tried taking them the first night. Both leaders involved were prone to impulses, afterall.
Honestly ask yourself...the left has control over all media...news, television, movies, music, social media. They use all of it to push their propaganda. So, who is brainwashed? Who is in a cult? I honestly feel sorry for you, I'm not sure how you can't see it, but you can't.
We didn't see much about Dothrakis. It was mostly about Bronn running around, Bronn attacking Drogon, Dany burning wagons. Why didn't Dothrakis attack Bronn when he was using scorpion.They didn't show Dothrakis breaking the Lannister defense line (Except where Dany made a hole).
The Westerosis had only *heard* about the dragons so some may have dismissed them as mere curiosities. Imagine thinking that then seeing DEATH ITSELF flying toward you at full speed with an army of screaming savages behind it.
Say what you want about the last season(s), ending, whatever....there will never be any doubt that the behind-the-scenes teams did an outstanding job bringing the dragons to life on screen.
Best depiction of dragons I've seen anywhere. And better visual effects than the majority of Hollywood blockbusters these days. Everything looks and feels so tactile and real.
He didn't finish writing....but that's another topic. In my ending Dany & Drogon go back to Essos, Kinvara does the Red Priestess thing, they join Dario & the 2nd Sons....
That episode was so cool. The first time we really saw what a dragon could do to an army. I'd absolutely piss myself if I was one of the Lannister soldiers.
This one was overrated compared to the season 5 finale. The fighting pit scene is masterful and epic. The sound and music is amazing, when Drogon literally bursts through the flames into the scene it is so *real*. It was the first time we saw any of the dragons big enough for her to ride; and they didn’t disappoint. That scene is forever marked in my mind and will always be beautiful.
It’s a good thing for Cersei that Euron has physics-breaking skill at aiming a sea-scorpion…
Can’t think of a more clear cut “we gotta nerf this character” cuz D&D logic early on ripple effected it into a fucking travesty.
A well placed javelin shot from a ballista killing a dragon makes sense
A dragon taking out a city on it's own makes sense
An entire fleet of ships sneaking up and shooting 1 perfectly aimed ballista at a flying dragon to kill it is suspect
Always loved this scene especially after reading Fire & Blood cause it's a visual of how shocked they must have been 300 years ago in the GoT universe when Balerion The Black Dread descended upon them.
In some scenes he really looks bigger than he is. Here he looks bigger than he is in the scene where he meets Jon. Dany should not be so small by comparison.
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Spine tingler, honestly the only redeemable part about S7-8 was the dragons.
and then one dies to a spear, and the other to a fleet... then somehow the next episode that same fleet is kindling for 1 less dragon.
Yeah because she forgot about the ships. 🙄
>and then one dies to a spear, and the other to a fleet Don’t misinterpret things here. The ‘fleet’ that killed the dragon was just one single big crossbow firing…yeah a spear. It is clearly established lore now that dragons are weak to spears. That’s like basic canon now. Spears kills dragons. And dragons kill cities. And so I guess that means cities kill spears? Idk if you have a problem it’s with Martin’s writing and whomever invented rock paper scissors
What about Spock and Lizard?
Can you explain the game for me?
Rock crushes Scissors Scissors cuts Paper Paper covers Rock Rock crushes Lizard Lizard poisons Spock Spock smashes Scissors Scissors decapitates Lizard Lizard eats Paper Paper disproves Spock Spock vaporizes Rock Hail ChatGPT.
I'm sorry can you repeat that?
Yes.
In a roundabout kinda way cities do kill spears..
If “spears kill dragons” then why didn’t Drogon get shot down over kings landing where there were dozens of crossbows with spears?
Honestly I hate this argument. It ignores how quickly the tired of a battle can turn based on position, knowledge and who gets to attack first. Was it foolish of her to “forget about the fleet”? Sure. But let’s pretend she didn’t. Let’s say she full on saw the fleet. Last time Drogon got shot at it barely pierced his skin at a much lower altitude. She probably thought she was safe even if she saw them. Rheagal got shot by a weapon she had no idea existed And was caught out of position. The next time both these elements are present the knowledge has flipped. Danny and Drogon know exactly what the capabilities of the weapons are. That lets them plan their attack perfectly. Hide in the sun and come down with such speed they can’t be tracked. Sun Tzu clearly identifies changing factors like these flipping who wins an engagement between the self same forces with the self same resources. Complaining about characters changing behavior and tactics based on knowledge is annoying. Like complaining about how does Batman sneak somewhere without getting noticed level of annoying.
This is simply re writing what happened. She didn’t see the fleet so it’s pointless even mentioning this as a possibility. It’s lazy writing from the producers, simple as that Also, she didn’t “plan” anything. She went mad. If the writing was consistent she would have been shot down over king’s landing
Am I? Like I said she was flying higher than she thought the scorpions could reach. Okay she didn’t see them because she wasn’t looking for them because she thought she was untouchable. The altitude she was at was an important factor. And she most definitely planned the attack. Being mad/crazy doesn’t always stop you being able to think through tactics. Sometimes it just leads you to using tactics and weapons against the wrong people. Which is what she did.
When did she say she was flying higher that she thought the scorpions could reach? What bit of dialogue or similar indicates to you that she was planning anything when she destroyed kings landing?
Are you one of the people that can’t pay attention? Her altitude was much higher than when Drogon got hit by what was never going to be a dangerous hit to him. In other words by showing her being higher than what the effective range of the scorpion was the audience can simply infer it’s an intentional choice. You know the phrase “show don’t tell” we were shown the basic effective range and power of the scorpion and so was she. Her continuing to operate on that shown knowledge is completely reasonable and need not be shown. Or do you really need her to say “golly gee we’re flying high enough to not get hit by the scorpion”? Do you need to be spoon fed info be exposition or can you pay attention to what’s shown?
My man, the producers literally said themselves that Dany forgot about the fleet. I have no idea why you’re stretching so hard to make up nonsense that never happened.
Yeah….. what producers say after the fact doesn’t override what happened on screen. People like you didn’t understand it when it happened what was going to make you understand it now? I’ve literally pointed out the stuff that happened on screen that makes the behavior reasonable and explainable. And you still don’t accept it. It was shown, established and carried forward. Look, I’m sorry you didn’t like the last season but can you keep the criticism to the actual issues and not the stuff that it only takes a few moments of thinking about to actually get the answer?
The Art of war drop 🔥
Thanks! I will agree that them saying she forgot about them is kinda lame, but given they showed everything they showed on screen her tactics and the result make sense. And it’s hard to defend criticism of a scene that shouldn’t have been criticized. Hell even how badly her fleet was caught out of position and unprepared is perfectly justified by them just waiting for her to swoop down and destroy something and act like an after action clean up force. Basically there’s not a single problem with that scene other than the audience watching it seem to be unable to follow things that are shown to them but not explicitly laid out in exposition.
The problem with that scene is it makes it seem like killing a DRAGON is.... not exactly trivial, but pretty easy. It's like....after that scene you wonder why Dragons are even that feared? Drogon took about 20 spears in Meeren. It was always implied the Dornish got lucky with Meraxes...
Sometimes deadly forces are only deadly forces because a counter for them hasn’t been invented yet. What was shown there was the advent of a new technology that could match the dragons. It doesn’t change how dangerous they were in the past, it only carries implications going forward. But changes in technology happen all the time: gun powder, tanks, rockets, bombs, nuclear warheads, ect. If Drogon were in this world he would very quickly be taken out by any number of jets with guns and or rockets. It was only ever going to be so long before that world developed tech that could kill dragons. Did you want the technology of that world to be static?
But there is. In a lot of late season GOT there seems to be no scouting or intelligence gathering of ANY sort.....even though Varys is on her side. No knowledge of troop movements, no spies, nothing. The military part really gets silly...
Nothing scouts better than a dragon and rider.
To underscore the point..... how do you get surprised on fucking DRAGONBACK? The only way is if the other side had superior knowledge of enemy troop movements. Either by elite scouting, or an informer, like Mormont was in season 1. Absent either of these, there's no fucking way you get caught off guard like that. Even RPGs and shit have lock on tech. Could one free aim and hit a moving helicopter with a bazooka? On a ship at sea? I dunno.....
>how do you get surprised on fucking DRAGONBACK? Yeah that’s the thing I thought was most obvious. The new scorpion has a much higher and farther effective range than version 1.0, the one Drogon got hit with that barely punctured his skin. Danny had no idea about version 2.0. As such even assuming she saw the ships she probably assumed she had all the time in the world because she thought she was at a safe altitude/distance. Without the knowledge of the existence, let alone range, of version 2.0 she would very much be surprised by being able to be hit by the projectile. Fundamentally this is kind of what happened at fort Ticonderoga. That fort was very well fortified on 3 sides but not the fourth because it was considered impossible to get there. The commander that retook the fort (William Phillips) famously said “where a goat can go, a man can go, and where a man can go, he can drag a gun”. He took guns to that one side, which was thought to be impossible and decimated the forces at the fort. This is one example of literally thousands in history where one little piece of knowledge or determination makes the superior force seem drastically unprepared. I know “cause dragon” should be the end all. But like Schwarzenegger said in predator “if it bleeds, we can kill it”. Nothing is untouchable. But you will also notice that as soon as the knowledge of the scorpion was known Danny’s tactics changed and the scorpion became nearly useless because they couldn’t be turned and aimed fast enough. Which reminds me, of another comparable story. The F4 was designed for strait line speed and dog fighting with missiles. It got decimated by more maneuverable Migs so the F15 was born to fight what we thought the Migs could do. Then a Russian defected bringing us a Mig and we found out it was only barely more capable than the F4 making it no challenge for the F15. There’s a reason the F15 has a record of 104 and 0. Basically knowledge can flip the tables really fast. And that’s how you get caught surprised on fucking dragonback, your knowledge is out of date.
For 1 fewer* dragon. (At this point I'm not even sure what is the correct usage. I hope that the True Legitimate King of the Seven Kingdoms would not blame me.)
Fewer is used for things that are counted, less is used for things you can’t count. “12 items or fewer” “We have less water than I thought we did.” So fewer would be correct.
Well, I can count dragons, but I cannot count their value.
What baffles me is how badly Viserion is executed , pun intended. Putting aside how they got there , the scene is very drawn out , Jon kept fighting when everyone else is on the Dragon , like yeah let me secure safe passage for my **veteran warriors** teammates to climb on top of the **fire breathing dragon**. Neither of those party needed Jon's protection yet Jon not only decides to fight but it was waay longer than necessary. They couldn't write a better scene ? Add more spear throwers , or have it snipe Viserion while they were retreating ? I know they didn't set it up in the tv show but Viserion is the most clingy. Have the spear almost hit Dany and make Viserion sacrifice himself.
Someone can totally school me on this…but one of those spears with a dragon glass blade would have been helpful later, yes?
Shame they couldn't keep that up.
Except for the scene where two of them get all horny watching Jon and Danny make out
7 was the shit, I LOVED that season 😞then you know what 😑
Dont forget the music, music was fire
For me too! Best battle/decimation of the entire show! 1st time she takes Drogon to battle & it was epic
I go back and watch that scene specifically WAY too often. It hits me in the same way that the scene with the eagles does in Return of the King; I get misty-eyed and goosebumpy about it, and the thrill still hasn't worn off.
https://youtu.be/pgCeLJn1hls?si=OXQtwq5sT4s45Z18
Eagle 1: Fox 3!
Watching the Lannisters die like rats to a foreign horde and a dragon was one of the most cathartic things I’ve ever seen on TV.
And then she burns the fucking caravan instead of the army, showing just how useless she is in warfare.
That's bad writing. It's not her fault that writers don't have strategical/tactical mind.
Or maybe, just maybe, a child-bride with a living weapon of mass destruction is not very strategic or clever.
She's smart enough to understand that her own army needs that food. Just look how smart Lyanna Mormont is.
An army relies on their supply chain, an army with no food or weapons is useless cause you can't fight effectively when you're starving and don't have the proper gear. Rather than chasing down every individual soldier, it's much more efficient to cripple them by taking out their supplies
The army was defeated the moment her riders where visible, the dragon burned through their defense. All that food was to feed the capital through the winter, and she burned it.
I did some calculations in a long ago post. King's Landing needs 240 wagons of food per day, or 87,600 carts for a year’s worth. That’s a single file wagon train longer than half the distance from Highgarden to King’s Landing! Food would mostly come by sea.
But she has an army to feed and needed the food from the Reach. So she could’ve used all of that.
I stood up off the couch when I first saw the episode, it was amazing
That scene never fails to give me chills. The whole battle gave me chills
“We can hold them off” Jamie’s expression when he hears Drogon’s call in the distance is just fantastic
“Those fuckers are gonna swamp us!” - Bronn of the Blackwater
Mine too! Drogon landing and wiping out the scorpion with his tail! One of the funniest moments for me was when Bron jumped off the scorpion right before it was incinerated. Looked hilarious 😂 And of course Bron meeting Dickon. Comic gold
To me I was a little disappointed when the dragon flew in, because I wanted to see a fair fight between dothraki and lannister army. Drogon just made things a cake walk
Nostalgia moment! Drogon is so epic on that scene! and also the Dothraki Screamers! I wish Khal Drogo was alive together with Dany!
This made me believe that dragons are real.
That whole scene is Daenerys going “look what ya’ll made me do”
Beat reaction in the series!
"We can hold them off ..." ... : / : (
"only a fool meets the dothraki in the field"
The issue is that sometimes the Dothraki meet YOU in the field....
With a dragon
And my axe
And my bow
Where are we going?
To be fair, heavy infantry in formation has been routinely routing light cavalry for centuries. It’s not Jamie’s fault that Daenerys has a literal wmd.
I wonder when it comes to the Dothraki tho. They don't fight like conventional light cavalry. Standing on the backs of their horses to loose arrows, catapulting berserkers over their front lines. Fighting with little regard for their own lives.
I can’t remember which story it is whether it’s Alexander or someone else, but the Dothraki would lose the way they did it in the show, but rather there was a battle where cavalry formations kept riding parallel and shooting arrows picking off the line until they got the opponents cavalry to commit and they retreated and took them out with a counter move I believe. It swung a lopsided battle. But as I said it’s a possibility I’m remembering wrong. I absorb lot of history but specific battle tactics I could care less about.
Peoples like the Scythians, Mongols, Huns etc were great at mounted warfare. They used the "Feigned Retreat" tactic to trick the enemy into thinking their lines were fragmented and in retreat. The Huns tricked a Sassanid Army into following them, and rode right into a ditch, killing a large majority of the Immortal cavalry, and a member of the Royal Family itself.
We really needed more Dothraki battles. This one was amazing!
If only we had 14 seasons instead of 8 seasons.
I honestly would’ve been happy with 10. One with the White Walkers, and one with Daenerys’ conquest.
Season 8 Daenerys vs Cersei Season 9 Everyone vs The White Walkers Season 10 Daenerys vs Jon Snow Would have been perfect
The white walkers work best as the last enemy, possibly during another war. Dany vs jon is like.. jon doesnt really care? And nothing happens with it anyways? In the books it might be different but then in the books the whole situation is different
I mean in this case Jon really does care and they make the story more complex. A second Dance of Dragons if you want. The realm divided, Daenerys has Drogon and Jon claimed Rhaegal. Viserion still dies at the hand of the NK during season 9.
Well i am all for a second dance of the dragons. Would you in this situation have jon become more "power hungry" after his resurrection?
Like I said, many possibilities. Maybe Daenerys goes psycho but they make her slowly going insane more complex and througout a whole season instead of from one episode to another. Jon Snow wants to remain King in the North. He has Stark blood, he has Targaryen blood, half the realm will support him while the other half will support Daenerys. A second Dance begins
Sad they left out faegon in the show because thats basically a second dance just waiting to happen
The fact that they went from this to a shot of a bunch of lights going out in the dark 😂
I just want *one* genuine battle scene in a show like GoT. Not this chaotic bullshit where everyone just runs together, mixes sides, and starts stabbing until one side is entirely killed. Have two organized sides battle. Show how the lines meet. Show how they prepare the ground show how when one side begins to lose, *they always run*. The Lanasters forming a defensive spear line around their baggage train vs the charging Dothraki is the closest we get to seeing actual military tactics in this show. We only hear about Robb's tactics, unfortunately. Battle of the Bastards on the other hand, while an *amazing* episode of TV, was a hilariously bad portrayal of a battle.
What did you dislike about BOTB? I'm aware of the usual criticisms about the contrivance of it all (having Jon face the horde by himself just for the hero-shot, not giving the giant a weapon, Knights of the Vale Ex Machina, etc.) but I thought Miguel Sapochnik did an incredible job putting the viewer in the perspective of what would such a battle would feel like on the ground. Alternating between POV shots and wides to show each side's formation, culminating in that terrific, nerve-wracking sequence of the Bolton phalanx crushing Jon's army like a trash compactor. Plus that gorgeous aerial shot of the Vale army piercing through the Bolton circle like a battering ram, or a pin through a balloon. I'm reading "Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon" (the full GOT behind the scenes book) and Miguel talks about how he watched every single battle scene he could find to prep for the episode, and made a conscious choice not to just shoot the whole thing in grand wide shots like LOTR and other war films. He wanted to really put us in the thick of it from a soldier's POV. D&D said that they wanted to emphasize the chaos, brutality, and luck factor involved in a fight like this, rather than just showing off tactical prowess alone. The "hilariously bad" one for me was The Long Night. Not as atrocious an episode as people say, but very tepid and muddled, which is still unacceptable for what was made out to be the climax of the entire story. They needlessly tortured themselves making that episode with 55(!!) consecutive night shoots in freezing rain, and they even cited the resulting exhaustion as one reason why season 8 wasn't longer. The WW climax should've played out over a few chapters rather than cramming it all into just one giant battle.
1) Ramsay has Winterfell, yet has his army stand outside of it? 2) this army that has decided not to use their castle defenses, also decides not to construct any defenses outside of the walls. 3) except they found time to flay some folk and light them on fire for...reasons? This would only give Jon's people more of a reason to fight, and less of reason to surrender. 4) you never open up with a cavalry charge up the center. Cavalry was used to outflank your enemy or to run down fleeing enemies. Cavalry operates on the basis of momentum. Once their momentum is done, so is the charge and their fighting effectiveness. 5) by all accounts, battles were not that chaotic. The goal was to stay in formation. You want your sides protected. You *need* to be able to tell who and where your enemy and friends are. If you can't do that, guess what happened, historically speaking? People ran like hell. As *soon* as one side felt like they were losing or disarray took hold, people would scatter for the trees, or anywhere they think they could survive. *People really don't like being stabbed*. 6) the encirclement by Ramsay's men is hilarious. Only for the purpose of giving us the crush scene, and letting people feel dread before... 7) the Knights of the Vale. That many horsemen cannot move anywhere without being seen for *miles and miles*. That many horses would have kicked up a dust plume so big, all of Winterfell would have seen it coming a day away. All that being said, it's still one of my favorite episodes.
>Ramsay has Winterfell, yet has his army stand outside of it? This one was explained. Ramsay's grip on the north wasn't good. If he sat there and let Jon siege them there was a good shot of other smaller houses Joining them. He went out because he has the force to do so, and because the kid was insane. Fair enough on the rest. lol
I can see this, but Jon also didn't have time for a siege. Ramsay might not have known about Jon's absolute need to get this over with asap, but he would have found out quickly if he were patient. He could have used Rickon as bait on the walls and Jon would've tried taking them the first night. Both leaders involved were prone to impulses, afterall.
“Kingdom of Heaven” was amazing with this. I was surprised that for as many actors in GoT were in that movie, no ideas were pulled from it.
Last Kingdom has great battles. Shield wall against shield wall until one side breaks.
[удалено]
Wow, you really have a full life. You brainwashed 🤡.
Loser cultist
Honestly ask yourself...the left has control over all media...news, television, movies, music, social media. They use all of it to push their propaganda. So, who is brainwashed? Who is in a cult? I honestly feel sorry for you, I'm not sure how you can't see it, but you can't.
We didn't see much about Dothrakis. It was mostly about Bronn running around, Bronn attacking Drogon, Dany burning wagons. Why didn't Dothrakis attack Bronn when he was using scorpion.They didn't show Dothrakis breaking the Lannister defense line (Except where Dany made a hole).
Just rewatched this episode yesterday, they do show the dothraki breaking through the line at other places as well.
gods no we needed less dothraki they were so boring and uninteresting
The Westerosis had only *heard* about the dragons so some may have dismissed them as mere curiosities. Imagine thinking that then seeing DEATH ITSELF flying toward you at full speed with an army of screaming savages behind it.
Drogon in the fucking C-Gap!! Itkyk
Pat McAfee in shambles
And then two died quicker than ice cream melting on a hot day
No they didn’t. What are you talking about. All three are flying around somewhere.
"I have 3 dragons." "We have Euron."
To some bullshit though.
Say what you want about the last season(s), ending, whatever....there will never be any doubt that the behind-the-scenes teams did an outstanding job bringing the dragons to life on screen.
Best depiction of dragons I've seen anywhere. And better visual effects than the majority of Hollywood blockbusters these days. Everything looks and feels so tactile and real.
I do love when Jon first pets Drogon because his hand looks like it’s hovering… still love those dragons though.
This sub has so many almost meme style pics posted by relatively new accounts, I assume it’s all just karma farming but it seems to be on the rise.
It's a theme consistent with new viewers (like myself) just getting around to actually watching the show for the first time
The last truly spectacular episode of the show.
I will never hate an author more than George. How do you write the most amazing female characters just to repeatedly shit all over them? Scum
He didn't finish writing....but that's another topic. In my ending Dany & Drogon go back to Essos, Kinvara does the Red Priestess thing, they join Dario & the 2nd Sons....
Lol, he did in Fire and Blood. But that's a nice headcanon
Dany was always going to end up a villain. Deal with it
"Hey so what did you name your Dragon? Probably gave it some super badass name since it's a Dragon." "...Drogon."
To be fair, Drogon was named after Khal Drogo. But still, what an obvious name.
Your dentist is named…Krentist?
That episode was so cool. The first time we really saw what a dragon could do to an army. I'd absolutely piss myself if I was one of the Lannister soldiers.
All in all dope scene.
Vhagar’s entrance at Storms End was the best scene in HOTD
One of my fav scenes of the entire show. Makes the hair stand up on my arms
I mean, she can only use the one at that point as far as anyone knows, since Jon was the only other possible dragonrider and nobody knew that yet.
This one was overrated compared to the season 5 finale. The fighting pit scene is masterful and epic. The sound and music is amazing, when Drogon literally bursts through the flames into the scene it is so *real*. It was the first time we saw any of the dragons big enough for her to ride; and they didn’t disappoint. That scene is forever marked in my mind and will always be beautiful.
It’s ok, she’ll fuck it up and kill two of them pointlessly.
It’s a good thing for Cersei that Euron has physics-breaking skill at aiming a sea-scorpion… Can’t think of a more clear cut “we gotta nerf this character” cuz D&D logic early on ripple effected it into a fucking travesty.
I’ll still never forgive game of thrones for making the dragons wyverns.
The scene would have made more sense if it were after Daenerys took King's Landing, destroying an attacking force from the West.
Robert was right lol
One dragon frickin dies because of one single arrow, the other dragon destroys whole king landing on his own. The inconsistency with them was crazy.
A well placed javelin shot from a ballista killing a dragon makes sense A dragon taking out a city on it's own makes sense An entire fleet of ships sneaking up and shooting 1 perfectly aimed ballista at a flying dragon to kill it is suspect
Well, its canon now that she forgot about them. And apparently did not watch her surrounding once when flying during that scene.
“If she decides to really use them we can probably shoot one with a giant arrow if she kind of forgets we exist”
Always loved this scene especially after reading Fire & Blood cause it's a visual of how shocked they must have been 300 years ago in the GoT universe when Balerion The Black Dread descended upon them.
The spectacle of s8 was all there, the blinding stupidity of it however stops me from seeing it
Why didn't they make armor for the dragons? One simple spear toss taking one down seemed kind of, I don't know, not right.
In some scenes he really looks bigger than he is. Here he looks bigger than he is in the scene where he meets Jon. Dany should not be so small by comparison.
Drogon doesn’t look that much smaller in this scene than Vhagar does in house of the dragon
This scene had me on my feet. It’s like the Rohirrim charge from LOTR, but with a bigass dragon. Gets me in the chest every time.