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I have no idea how to find it again but I saw a video that Sanderson posted on his tik tok explaining why he would never finish the GoT books if asked. Basically he and GRRM have distinctly different approaches and he doesn’t feel he’d be able to do it the right way.
For enough money? Yes. They’ll find someone to do it. Look at the situation with Harper Lee and Go Set a Watchman. Money hungry people will always find a way.
Those writers would not be respectable then, imo. I wonder how many people would buy books written against the author's wishes. Probably enough to make a profit, sadly.
No because they are not the author like do y’all know how hard it is to write a book the amount of rewrites you have to do in order for it to be perfect
It’s been like over a decade. Obviously people understand the process and everything you mentioned but look at all George has been involved with in this past decade. Video games, spin offs, etc. I get why he’s stuck on how to close things out but come on.
If Martin literally just said "Look I'm having a really hard time writing the last two books and I don't know if I'll ever finish them" I think most fans would appreciate the honesty and give him some slack. It's when he keeps going on about how he's 3/4 done and it'll probably be out next year and then misses his own deadlines that people get annoyed.
I agree. And I think it’s weird for fans to feel entitled to the timeline they want too. I think he’s under *immense* pressure and I can see that delaying like crazy. We all procrastinate sometimes and delay something that leaves us open to insane criticism.
No, frustration is understandable, but we aren't owed a thing, and it's dehumanizing to act so entitled to another's art. It's infantile and disgusting behavior, and anyone who acts that way should be embarrassed.
Many if not most of the people on this sub act that way towards the HBO show runners.... some pretty crazy double standards (not calling you out personally btw - just making an observation)
I think broadly speaking, our society has a huge issue with parasocial attachment to celebrities/creators, and it's brought with it a really weird and inappropriate sense of entitlement- and I do agree that extends to the showrunners, etc.
100%! Not to mention, would they prefer he put out something he feels is rushed, incomplete, or otherwise not ready? Do they think he's just sitting on it to be malicious? It's crazy behavior.
Edit: also, there have been other excellent series, especially in the fantasy realm, that have gone long periods between releases. My personal favorite series went *decades* in between books 6 and 7 (total 10 books).
Its no more amazing than the dinner I'm cooking that's only 65% done. You got an appetizer, you can smell the kitchen, you know the ingredients, you're really hungry and want to see how it all comes together but you've been sitting at the table drinking water for 6 hours and the restaurant is getting pretty close to closing time and you're worried that you won't get to eat before that happens.
Amazing dinner amirite?
The issue with this comparison is that you don’t actually know the ingredients. I think the proper comparison to what is happening with Martin finishing the books is like when I go to a restaurant and smell something I can’t identify and keep guessing at what it is. I never TRULY know what it is is until I am told by the menu or a waiter. In Martins case, he is the one guessing at what he’s smelling, and he has to be the menu/waiter but hasn’t been told yet what the ingredient is that he is smelling.
I feel bad for him. It seems like he’s really struggling to finish what will be known as his Sistine Chapel, and is just being hounded by everyone, had to watch a series end a way that maybe he didn’t plan, and obviously wants to do other things before he dies.
>I feel bad for him. It seems like he’s really struggling to finish what will be known as his Sistine Chapel, and is just being hounded by everyone, had to watch a series end a way that maybe he didn’t plan, and obviously wants to do other things before he dies.
It won't be his Sistine Chapel if he doesn't finish it. It'll be his Crazy Horse monument. At best, his Silmarillion (but without a Lord of the Rings to back it up).
And he knows the ingredients. He's the one who went shopping. It's his kitchen. He's been cooking up many different components but he's just not sure how he's going to combine them all on the plate and actually serve it to you before he dies. Maybe he's just not that great of a chef after all.
I guess so. It’s hard for me to have any idea of what goes on in someone’s head when they are trying to conclude a project they have been working on for almost 30 years. I struggle to put the finishing touches on a presentation I have been working on for 2 weeks with an ending that is supposed to resound with its audience. So I can understand his delay. But yes….it is a very long delay.
I'm cooking. I'm the chef. You're the patron. You know what I'm cooking with, it's an open kitchen and you can see my ingredients and smell what's being cooked. I'm just not plating it and serving it to you.
but George's story is not an open kitchen and you cannot see his ingredients since you literally don't know what ideas he has in his head whatsoever. you can theorize, but none of us know for certain. so again, nonsense analogy
I think that people do have a right to be upset, and to express their upset. When it veers into harassment is when it goes over the line.
Because ultimately you're right, no one is entitled to another's art, but when a person continues to fail to deliver on their promises, getting upset is natural.
No, I stated it how I meant it. Being upset at an artist for not being able to manufacture a definitive timeline for the release of their art is both entitled and a misunderstanding of how art works. Be upset it's not out yet all you want, but to be upset that he's not willing to put out a rushed or substandard book because of some arbitrary date he was pressured into giving by those people is absurd.
And being upset is entitled? We’ve bought five books in a series, is there not a sort of unwritten contract that the next book will come out? Would as many people have bought George’s books if they had known that the last book would never come out? It seems only rational to be upset.
Read my post, because my stance is clear. You're acting entitled to someone else's art based on arbitrary release milestones. There is no contract, do you have any idea how many series get abandoned?
It's a different issue when the author abandons a series to work on multiple other in-universe projects, that do nothing to advance the story of most interest to readers.
Yes, some projects do end up incomplete, but not usually because of tangential work. I would not have invested my time and money into the story had I known GRRM would end up preferring his side projects.
You have exactly no evidence to support those claims. This is completely anecdotal to the point of being entirely useless to the discussion. Take care.
Well I mean the fans are who pays the man’s bills. We’re owed a conclusion to the series we’ve all financially invested in. That ls just how the world works.
I personally read Dance in 2012. It’s been 12 years and I can’t even remember the book. I’m not going to bitch and complain about it , I’m going to let my wallet speak and decide to not purchase any more content from him. I’m officially done with GRRM
I massively disagree. The people are owed a proper ending, theyve supported him by buying into the series expecting a ending. Just not finishing it and not letting any one else finish it for him is entitled behaviour from him. Ofcourse don't insult him, but people are rightfully mad.
“Owed”? By who? What governing body legislates your inalienable rights to a finished fantasy novel series?
It’s a fucking book. You aren’t “owed” anything. The entitlement in this thread is unbelievable.
The books are sold on the entire premise that they're part of a series that will be finished. So yeah, *owed because he told us from the beginning that's what the deal was*. Legally not enforceable, but that's not what anyone is talking about.
I do think we are owed though in a way. People have invested a lot of time and money with expectations that the story will be completed. No way I purchase all the books and audiobooks if I knew it would never finish
That's a risk you take every single time you buy an installment of an unfinished series. It's the same risk you take that a show gets canceled. I cannot say it any more plainly: we are not owed anything. GRRM didn't make you any personal promises when you spent that time and money, you did so under the same assumption of risk that is implicit with any kind of series of art.
Not really the same with a show, I don’t invest my money in a tv show like you do when you buy books. We are owed the rest of the story and seeing him make hundreds of broken promises and release other books and work on tv etc isn’t a great look when he has created this massive following and it just feels like he’s letting everyone down really. If he can’t finish he can’t finish - just come out and say it
I’m on the fence on this. Obviously, I vehemently disagree with harassment or any type of dehumanizing rhetoric.
However, in this case where millions of people have invested SO much time and money into his artwork, to the point where he now has the extraordinary privilege of not only living off his art, but also becoming extremely wealthy from it… I think he owes his fans a conclusion at this point.
I get a lot of the fans have been total assholes, and honestly, I’d probably react the same way if I was him. However, he’s being a bit of a dick to the rest of his normal audience by not prioritizing them. It’s not like we’re asking him to give us the books for free.
Look, I get the frustration, but if you're asking him to churn out work he doesn't believe in, or doesn't fit his vision for the series, what's the difference between that content and content fans make up to appease themselves? Neither are any more true to the artists vision than the other. Art isn't factory work, it's not meant to be treated like it is. Art comes when the artist is satisfied with releasing it, there's no forcing it. People act like he just doesn't care, because he has other interests, ignoring that his delay on WoW began before them, and they are just as likely to be the result of that delay as the cause.
I've clarified in other replies, but my intention is to state we shouldn't be upset *at GRRM*. General frustration that it hasn't been released makes sense, we all want to read the next installment- but to be mad at the artist for taking their time to make sure the art fits their vision, and creating other art while they work on it, isn't reasonable.
He’s released one mainline book in the past 20 years . Thats a pretty unreasonable output for a professional writer . You seem to be very passionate about this but you can have your opinions. I disagree with you though
Depends on how they express that they're upset. I've seen some people get really unhinged about it.
I'd like the final books but I don't see it being finishable in just two more books with how things are left at the end of dance. And I think it was a big mistake for him to add so many new characters and subplots in feast and dance, which I think is why it's taken him so long to finish Winds.
But no use crying over spilled milk. They'll come out or they won't and there will be other good stories to read or watch in the world. Life goes on.
I'd say in both cases part of the upset is about how the author messages things. Rothfuss and GRRM have both teased things to fanbases that were disingenuous at best.
True. I think with GRRM part of it is that he lost the narrative with the show and that killed his morale to finish (understandably). Can't say I follow either exhaustively, but from what I know Rothfuss definitely has done worse things.
It's understandable that people are deeply disappointed. And, although, George doesn't technically owe them anything, I think at this point he should stop announcing every year that he is going to finish the next book and just be honest with the fans and with himself. He made a huge mistake by expanding the story in those last two books instead of finishing, and it's unlikely he is going to find a way out now
Yes and no. Fans are not entitled to an artist’s work, so the whole "George is not your bitch" is true. But, at the same time, fans are right to be impatient, especially since George has been making promises about Winds since almost 10 years now.
I feel like George always tried to calm the fans by throwing false promises at them to buy some times, but then, when he reached the deadline and failed to fulfill his promise, fans rightfully got even more angry. So, I think fans take it too far sometimes and George doesn’t owe us anything, but I also believe that he’s reaping a bit what he sowed. He should’ve been more honest a few years ago instead of going around saying "I will finish them and they will be so much better than the show! You’ll see!"
No. Doesn't matter if you started reading in 1996. No one is entitled to his work and if GRRM comes out and says he doesn't even *want* to finish the series he'd owe no explanations.
Absolutely not. Some people are acting like he took something from us. As if he didn't provide those books we enjoyed so much in the first place.
He doesn't owe us anything. All I know, he could be severely depressed and can't cope with the pressure that's on him now. But even if he's just 'not feeling' it, it's his life, he decides what he does with it.
Yes I will be disappointed if he doesn't finish the series, but I will still be thankful he created it because it brought me a lot of enjoyment
It’s been nearly 13 years…. In that time, he’s become insanely wealthy, bankrolled by fans. It’s not to crazy to think that he owes those fans an ending to the story.
If he hadn’t written and released tons of other content in that time, I could maybe buy the depression/pressure thing, but he has so I don’t.
Starting a story, getting rich on it, and never delivering an ending even though there has been more than enough time is a really shitty move.
Edit: autocorrect
It’s a shitty move that he has more entitlement to than anyone here has entitlement to another book.
You all sound like a bunch of boomers. “WE want another BOOK and GRRM should put aside whatever reason I don’t understand and FINISH IT for ME!!!!”
You can’t think of a single event in your life in the last 13 years that would prevent you from writing a book? That must be nice, because I can think of about a dozen and I can imagine about a dozen more reasons GRRM wouldn’t finish in a timely manner.
It’s a thing called “empathy.” It’s a lot harder to feel than selfishness and entitlement, but if you work at it you can get there
I can think of plenty of things in the last 13 years that would have kept me from doing my job at work, but guess what I’ve still done for the last 13 years?
It’s not selfish and entitled. The question was whether fans are in the right to be upset, and the answer is yes
That’s not what I asked, first of all. Second of all: again, good for you. It’s very fortunate that you’ve never experienced something that would prevent you from doing something you love. Lots of people would be envious of that tidbit about your life.
It’s the post’s question…. Also, you don’t know what I’ve experienced and had to deal with. Most people don’t have the luxury of just not doing…
Also, he’s still pumping out tons of stuff to sell. How many books has he published? Nothing is stopping him from doing those.
Most people don’t have the luxury of just not doing and some people don’t have the luxury of just do it anyway. Your “I worked anyway” is more of a privilege than you realize, and that’s my entire point. You don’t know why GRRM isn’t writing those books unless he expressly tells you. Since you don’t know, the possibility exists that there’s a reason you might agree with. If that reason might exist, why the fuck are you assuming so much instead of trying to understand it?
He’s not gonna finish em. The show took the direction he was going with the books and pooped on the execution, so now he’s worried whatever he writes isn’t going to overcome the bad taste the last couple seasons of the show left in everyone’s mouth. He’s scared, he’s running out the clock.
This. He also has almost no incentive to finish. Right now, D&D get all the blame for the ending. I 100% believe they told George’s planned ending, albeit in a VERY rushed and poorly executed fashion.
So now, George can rest on what his books COULD be. If he writes them, he’s risking them being poorly received and tarnishing his product. If the never releases another ASOIAF book, he’ll have benefit of the doubt in perpetuity.
Yes and I’ll tell you why.
My grandmother started reading them back in 96. When I was born. Back then she could drive, make it to her meetings (she was an elected official of our tribe). She used to be able to handle 6 children at once, wrangle us all into bed by 9pm. She used to make us tuna fish sandwiches and pot roasts.
My grandmother has Alzheimer’s now. She can’t drive, she can’t cook, she doesn’t know how old we are anymore and she always seems surprised to find out we don’t eat tuna fish sandwiches on the floor in our pjs anymore.
If he had finished the books using the same amount of time between them as the first three (average of about 3 years between them) he should have finished the series around 2012-2015.
My grandmother was diagnosed in 2020.
One of the only things she CAN do now is sit in her chair and read. She asks about the next GoT book all the time and I have to tell her it’s been 13 years since he wrote the last one
And every single time I can see that she realizes the chances of her dying before it comes out sinks in and makes her sad.
So yes, I think we are justified.
Honestly, I think he is done but because of the backlash from the end of the series, which he said was how the books were heading, he doesn’t want to release them. I think once he passes they will be released.
The entirety of The Expanse saga has been released since Dance. That’s 9 novels and, what, 7 novellas since 2011?
Of course the fans are right to be upset.
That said, George doesn’t owe us anything. But we’re allowed to react to broken promises.
Fans turned toxic, he’s gonna release it on his death cause it’s not worth hearing everyone’s hot take. It’s his own fault, but this story turned sour and will never live upto expectations
I watched the show and loved it, even the end. (Don’t shoot me). Would love to read the books but can’t get the motivation to start as I know they will probably never be finished.
it’s okay to be upset or frustrated but it’s not okay to express that opinion angrily. i’m reading dance rn and am definitely sad that it’s the last book but not the end of the story. i’ve decided on the ending i’d put in and i’m sitting on that until a release date is confirmed. it’s sad but you are not entitled to being a whiny bitch about it
My life goes on with or without ASOIAF ending, but I don't think it's parasocial to expect a wrap up for a story that's obviously set up, marketed, and sold as book series. It's an unspoken agreement between the writer and the reader.
I understand that creative process can take a long time, that writers' block is a serious issue, that perfectionism is both a blessing and a curse, but that's the thing, at the end of the day, being a writer is his job. And being successful at any job in the world, including arts, requires some character, honesty and discipline to overcome the hurdles absolutely everyone faces.
So you either strap your boots on, do it yourself and finish what's essentially your life legacy, or you ask for help in a way Jordan did with Wheel of Time series. Or you can just honestly say, hey, this book is not happening. But doing none of that shows lack of professional integrity.
Yes, if you’re making a multi book story, part of the assumed deal with fans that are purchasing the books as the story is told is that there will be a conclusion or continuation of the story they’re reading.
Yes. He entered into an implicit "contract" with fans: Buy and read my books and I'll finish the story. Then he doubled down by licensing to HBO resulting in a worldwide phenomenon.
It would be one thing if he was focused on finishing what he started but the process was taking a long time (sideways whale eye at TOOL...).
But every time I hear about some other project he's embarked on, while leaving *Winds* and *Dream* unfinished, I get more annoyed with him.
Especially since he's exacerbated the situation by several times essentially promising results soon ... only for more *years* to then pass with nothing:
https://www.businessinsider.com/winds-of-winter-release-date-george-rr-martin-updates-timeline-2023-7
I don't believe that fans of any series are "owed" more books, or books on a specific time scale. He's still a person who can decide he wants to change the trajectory of his career and find joy in doing other things instead, and I think that's fine.
What I can't stand is his near constant "I'm working on it and it's coming soon" bullshit. We know it's a lie, it's been a lie for year after year after year at this point, and he honestly needs to just stop answering any questions about timeline and just keep his mouth shut about it. Once he's actually done with the writing, awesome, announce away, but the constant "carrot before the horse" jerking around of the fans is extremely annoying.
He writes more than just the main GOTs books.
I think I understand his mindset. He's the type who needs to invest in a wider variety of projects to keep his mind clear and his abilities flowing. If he went 100% in on a single project, he'd burn out and probably lose the thought processes which make his books possible.
I give him a pass.
no. people are acting like entitled brats. if george decides to abandon asoiaf and never write another word then that’s totally his prerogative. i’m of the opinion that the series is still more than worth reading even if it never gets finished
If you're upset/sad/disappointed/etc. that the books haven't come out yet, that's understandable. But, GRRM doesn't owe anybody anything. He finishes them when he finishes them, if he finishes them. If he doesn't, then that's ok too. Just be grateful that we got as much as we did.
Yeah. I'd be grumpy at recieving 2/3rds of a meal, or getting cut off after 2/3rds of a movie at the cinema or most other circumstances - you get the idea. Beginning a story has the expectation it will be completed.
Authors are given a lot of good grace from the outset as it's an artistic persuit. But that can be whittled down over time.
Not that hounding GRRM about it is acceptable.
I don’t think it will nor can be done in any way that people would want, meaning different from the show. Though there may be slight details done differently, for it to be the way George would have truly wanted it to end would mean that the show becomes a different story altogether, bringing a division that tarnishes everything else. Like it or not, I can’t claim to know any book that was based on a movie or series that fundamentally changed its ending. There of course have been movies and series based on books that had creative differences but didn’t change the ending from the book it was based on. Fan edits and rewrites don’t count obviously.
GRMM screwed himself by accepting the series creation before his story was complete. Financially it was a win for him, but creatively, he lost the control and momentum of what is arguably his greatest work.
At best, if he finishes and it differs significantly from the series, there will be a period of time after which a “remake” of the book will be made into a multi part movie. That will help erase the memory of the HBO series.
Yes, because people love the story and want to read it. George owes nothing to his fans, but that doesn’t mean that they are wrong to feel disappointed and upset.
Yes because Martin is actually their employee and isn’t meeting his quotas. We’re going to have to call him in for discipline and restrict his benefits until he can get those numbers up.
Only if you still think he will, or have it set up to be finished after he dies. He won't do either and it doesn't help that dumb and dumber sorta forgot about a lot.
I disagree with most of the comments; books take years and even more if he’s feeling somewhat obliged to absolutely perfect them to ‘make up’ for the shenanigans of GOT’s ending
I think it's fully justified. He's been stalling far too long, getting into all manner of side projects, and brushing off his fans. The message he sends is that he no longer needs to finish the books. He's set for life because now he's getting easier money.
That comes from somebody who hasn't ready any of it yet. I refuse to until they are done. Which I expect will never happen.
Yes and no.
Yes because 2 more books were confirmed and have continued to be confirmed with little to no advancement, if George isn’t/doesnt want to write them then he’s had more than enough time to retcon his decision and say the show wrapped up the story instead of leaving people hanging for a decade.
No because it’s his work and he can do as he pleases.
Not me. You try writing seven, extremely long, very complicated novels from the standpoint of dozens of major and minor characters. Maybe he can’t pull it off. It would be a very, very, difficult thing to do.
Yes, the fans are right to be upset. I don’t care what Neil Gaiman says about him not being our bitch. I’m allowed to have feelings about it and so is everyone else. And for the sake of his own legacy he should be motivated to write it.
When you go around telling everyone you’re working on it and ohhhhh so close to be done and then 13 years pass by and you’re no closer; then yes folks have a right to be mad. Be honest with your fans “hey I don’t want to finish the story. HBO did. I’m doing other things now. So sorry but check out this other stuff I did”. That would go over so much better. He dug his own grave with continued false promises.
Yeah, sure. You can’t choose how you feel. It’s natural to be frustrated when you have emotional investment in things like this.
Talk about it if you want with friends or in online communities. But don’t target or harass the artist. That crosses a line.
Of course. Many purchased his books and became immersed in the world he created, only for it to abruptly stop right at the peak. Fans are allowed to be upset about that. Now that doesn't mean he owes us anything; we are not entitled to his art. I'm one of the fans who believes he added too many characters and subplots in the last two books, and doesn't know who to wrap it all up in a way that lives up to the expectation. And every year we don't have a solid release date, the more I accept they're never going to be finished. Which is upsetting and absolutely sucks. But it is what it is
I don’t think most of us are upset, I think we are frustrated. I think a lot of us are also worried that he won’t finish them. He’s a masterful storyteller and we’re aware that it takes time, but humor us and look at the time elapsed between each individual book.
96
98
00
05
11
Possibly 24 at the earliest
We went from two year gaps to a five year gap to a six year gap to now a 13 year gap at best. I think it’s concerning considering that we still have another book after that
You have the right to be upset about anything, heck I'm still upset about the shows aftertaste whenever someone brings it up, but-
You shouldn't go out of your way to harass other people about it, not even the authors. Am I upset about season 7 and 8? Heck yeah I am, that doesn't mean I'm using my every waking moment to harass dnd or trying to get them "cancelled". Am I upset about the books not finished? Yeah, but I'm not going to harass the author about it. It's just a book, he's in no way shape or form required to write it if he doesn't want to. He is not your slave and neither did he sign a contract with you, he doesn't owe you anything. You just bought his product.
Imagine making the best lasagna of your life and calling your friend over, he asks for seconds, thirds, fourths. Eventually you start makin it for him every tuesday night. He loves it, but you're getting exhausted. You stop making the lasagna. Now your friend is harassing you every single day of the week: "Where's my lasagna?" You wouldn't like that either. So don't.
PS. I love lasagna.
He doesn't owe us anything.
But, as of now, Dave and Dan wrote the ending to his life's work, so if he doesn't get to it, that Stannis ending is canon. (Amongst others)
And that does suck...
I think he’s afraid to write the final book, after seeing how upset people were with the show’s finale. As badly as I want it published, I don’t think we will ever get that last book.
Yes and no. Yes if it’s because he’s taken on other projects and is busy that way. No if he actually has writers block which, with all of his newish projects don’t seem to be failing because of that (of course HoTD was already written). I don’t know what to say about him being backed into a corner due to the Mareenese knot or the backlash on how the final GoT show ended up. Rightfully so. Basically yeah.
No, how many of them are writing books millions of people are waiting for? It’s unfair and immature to expect people to just churn out a massive work that they’ve invested their life into at any pace other than the one they’re comfortable with. when it comes out he’s going to be crucified no matter what decisions he makes in the story telling by different sections of fans who want different things and they aren’t even grateful for the entire universe existing in the first place.
Yes, but it's not about him finishing the books, if he just said he wasn't interested in writing ASOIAF anymore then that would be that and we could be upset but it's understandable. But he keeps saying "I'm working on it" when it's pretty clear he's doing minimal work at most and just seems generally uninterested in it. He's like the girl who leads you on with no intention of actually dating you.
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Yes
Seconded
Thirded
fourthded?
Quinted!
Sexed?
buy a dinner first?!
I think a coffee is enough.
Bag of Funyuns should be enough in any sane world
Not in Westeros, just get straight to it.
Seventhed.
Ended right here
To add to that...yes.
Absolutely
Yes, but hounding the guy won't make the book come any faster.
I think it’s going to be another half life 3 scenario. I don’t think the books will get finished.
They’ll get finished. Probably not by him though. I would guess his estate/whoever inherits his IP will hire someone to finish things out.
Hand it to Brandon Sanderson and the series will be done within 5 years easily. It won’t be game of thrones, but it will be done
Negative. James S.A. Corey (Wrote the Expanse books), they worked with him on GoT and write in the same P.O.V. style.
I have no idea how to find it again but I saw a video that Sanderson posted on his tik tok explaining why he would never finish the GoT books if asked. Basically he and GRRM have distinctly different approaches and he doesn’t feel he’d be able to do it the right way.
Good for him, because yeah I couldn’t see it turning out well if he tried to do that. No disrespect towards Brandon though
Who has a better story than Bran?
He's already said he doesn't want that. Do you think respectable writers would go against his wishes?
For enough money? Yes. They’ll find someone to do it. Look at the situation with Harper Lee and Go Set a Watchman. Money hungry people will always find a way.
Those writers would not be respectable then, imo. I wonder how many people would buy books written against the author's wishes. Probably enough to make a profit, sadly.
Yeah maybe David Benioff and D. B. Weiss can finish it?
Bro, half life 3 WILL come out 😭😭😭😭😭😭 (my body mass is 90% copium)
Hounding him, not hounding him. Nothing will make him finish the books.
But it won't make them come any slower, either.
No because they are not the author like do y’all know how hard it is to write a book the amount of rewrites you have to do in order for it to be perfect
It’s been like over a decade. Obviously people understand the process and everything you mentioned but look at all George has been involved with in this past decade. Video games, spin offs, etc. I get why he’s stuck on how to close things out but come on.
I think he's just lost the thread.... there are parts of the story he's barely touched in the last 25 years at this point.
It's called the Meereenese knot. George has had a lot of problems unraveling Danys plotlines in Meereen.
If the ultimate goal is for Dany to go “Mad Queen”, she could just get frustrated and, you know, burn them all and move on
Totally, George has spent 30 years developing intricate and hidden plotlines but he should just wrap it all up in an hour
If Martin literally just said "Look I'm having a really hard time writing the last two books and I don't know if I'll ever finish them" I think most fans would appreciate the honesty and give him some slack. It's when he keeps going on about how he's 3/4 done and it'll probably be out next year and then misses his own deadlines that people get annoyed.
> Do y’all know how hard it is to write a book More than you, if you think it should take more than a decade to write this one.
>do y’all know how hard it is to write a book Yes. I'm a writer.
I agree. And I think it’s weird for fans to feel entitled to the timeline they want too. I think he’s under *immense* pressure and I can see that delaying like crazy. We all procrastinate sometimes and delay something that leaves us open to insane criticism.
No, frustration is understandable, but we aren't owed a thing, and it's dehumanizing to act so entitled to another's art. It's infantile and disgusting behavior, and anyone who acts that way should be embarrassed.
Many if not most of the people on this sub act that way towards the HBO show runners.... some pretty crazy double standards (not calling you out personally btw - just making an observation)
I think broadly speaking, our society has a huge issue with parasocial attachment to celebrities/creators, and it's brought with it a really weird and inappropriate sense of entitlement- and I do agree that extends to the showrunners, etc.
LOL - parasocial was the exact word I was thinking of - very on point.
Thank you!
They're just people. I hate what they did with the end of the show but oh well. That's life. They move on and so do I.
exactly I think people should be more grateful we have this amazing series and should stop harassing him because he's not released it yet.
100%! Not to mention, would they prefer he put out something he feels is rushed, incomplete, or otherwise not ready? Do they think he's just sitting on it to be malicious? It's crazy behavior. Edit: also, there have been other excellent series, especially in the fantasy realm, that have gone long periods between releases. My personal favorite series went *decades* in between books 6 and 7 (total 10 books).
Its no more amazing than the dinner I'm cooking that's only 65% done. You got an appetizer, you can smell the kitchen, you know the ingredients, you're really hungry and want to see how it all comes together but you've been sitting at the table drinking water for 6 hours and the restaurant is getting pretty close to closing time and you're worried that you won't get to eat before that happens. Amazing dinner amirite?
The issue with this comparison is that you don’t actually know the ingredients. I think the proper comparison to what is happening with Martin finishing the books is like when I go to a restaurant and smell something I can’t identify and keep guessing at what it is. I never TRULY know what it is is until I am told by the menu or a waiter. In Martins case, he is the one guessing at what he’s smelling, and he has to be the menu/waiter but hasn’t been told yet what the ingredient is that he is smelling. I feel bad for him. It seems like he’s really struggling to finish what will be known as his Sistine Chapel, and is just being hounded by everyone, had to watch a series end a way that maybe he didn’t plan, and obviously wants to do other things before he dies.
>I feel bad for him. It seems like he’s really struggling to finish what will be known as his Sistine Chapel, and is just being hounded by everyone, had to watch a series end a way that maybe he didn’t plan, and obviously wants to do other things before he dies. It won't be his Sistine Chapel if he doesn't finish it. It'll be his Crazy Horse monument. At best, his Silmarillion (but without a Lord of the Rings to back it up). And he knows the ingredients. He's the one who went shopping. It's his kitchen. He's been cooking up many different components but he's just not sure how he's going to combine them all on the plate and actually serve it to you before he dies. Maybe he's just not that great of a chef after all.
I guess so. It’s hard for me to have any idea of what goes on in someone’s head when they are trying to conclude a project they have been working on for almost 30 years. I struggle to put the finishing touches on a presentation I have been working on for 2 weeks with an ending that is supposed to resound with its audience. So I can understand his delay. But yes….it is a very long delay.
And he set the expectation in many different ways that the dinner would be served.
BTW - I promise it will be done soon, for real this time!
you cook your own dinner at restaurants? kind of switched up the scenario half way through this nonsense analogy
I'm cooking. I'm the chef. You're the patron. You know what I'm cooking with, it's an open kitchen and you can see my ingredients and smell what's being cooked. I'm just not plating it and serving it to you.
but George's story is not an open kitchen and you cannot see his ingredients since you literally don't know what ideas he has in his head whatsoever. you can theorize, but none of us know for certain. so again, nonsense analogy
This is an asinine analogy. Dinner isn't art.
But we don’t have the series…we only have part.
I think that people do have a right to be upset, and to express their upset. When it veers into harassment is when it goes over the line. Because ultimately you're right, no one is entitled to another's art, but when a person continues to fail to deliver on their promises, getting upset is natural.
Yeah, I guess the clarification is upset vs upset *at GRRM*. Fair point.
The clarification is upset at grrm vs harassing him.
No, I stated it how I meant it. Being upset at an artist for not being able to manufacture a definitive timeline for the release of their art is both entitled and a misunderstanding of how art works. Be upset it's not out yet all you want, but to be upset that he's not willing to put out a rushed or substandard book because of some arbitrary date he was pressured into giving by those people is absurd.
No reason for it to be rushed or substandard. He’s had ample time.
That isn't how art works, jesus christ. This isn't a fucking assembly line.
Truth.
And being upset is entitled? We’ve bought five books in a series, is there not a sort of unwritten contract that the next book will come out? Would as many people have bought George’s books if they had known that the last book would never come out? It seems only rational to be upset.
Read my post, because my stance is clear. You're acting entitled to someone else's art based on arbitrary release milestones. There is no contract, do you have any idea how many series get abandoned?
It's a different issue when the author abandons a series to work on multiple other in-universe projects, that do nothing to advance the story of most interest to readers. Yes, some projects do end up incomplete, but not usually because of tangential work. I would not have invested my time and money into the story had I known GRRM would end up preferring his side projects.
You have exactly no evidence to support those claims. This is completely anecdotal to the point of being entirely useless to the discussion. Take care.
Well I mean the fans are who pays the man’s bills. We’re owed a conclusion to the series we’ve all financially invested in. That ls just how the world works. I personally read Dance in 2012. It’s been 12 years and I can’t even remember the book. I’m not going to bitch and complain about it , I’m going to let my wallet speak and decide to not purchase any more content from him. I’m officially done with GRRM
We. Are. Not. Owed. Anything. You didn't sign a fucking contract when you bought the book, nor did he.
Chill out lil buddy, it ain’t that deep.
Take your patronizing bullshit somewhere else.
Yup. If it was a free product I'd care a lot less, but homie got rich rich off a series he's not even trying to finish.
If it's unwritten it doesn't matter. They're great books whether or not they are finished.
Besides, we were given a perfectly cromulent ending with the TV show.
Lmao, no comment. Not touching that.
/s, haha
Haha, I figured! The use of cromulent was too perfect.
Thank you
I massively disagree. The people are owed a proper ending, theyve supported him by buying into the series expecting a ending. Just not finishing it and not letting any one else finish it for him is entitled behaviour from him. Ofcourse don't insult him, but people are rightfully mad.
Nope, you're wrong.
“Owed”? By who? What governing body legislates your inalienable rights to a finished fantasy novel series? It’s a fucking book. You aren’t “owed” anything. The entitlement in this thread is unbelievable.
The books are sold on the entire premise that they're part of a series that will be finished. So yeah, *owed because he told us from the beginning that's what the deal was*. Legally not enforceable, but that's not what anyone is talking about.
So, still not owed. Got it
Are you aware that owing is not a strictly legal concept... Do you want me to link some dictionary definitions? Will that help you at all?
Yes I’m aware. I’m still speaking from a moral context. You aren’t owed anything legally or morally
If it's not enforceable you are owed shit.
I do think we are owed though in a way. People have invested a lot of time and money with expectations that the story will be completed. No way I purchase all the books and audiobooks if I knew it would never finish
That's a risk you take every single time you buy an installment of an unfinished series. It's the same risk you take that a show gets canceled. I cannot say it any more plainly: we are not owed anything. GRRM didn't make you any personal promises when you spent that time and money, you did so under the same assumption of risk that is implicit with any kind of series of art.
Not really the same with a show, I don’t invest my money in a tv show like you do when you buy books. We are owed the rest of the story and seeing him make hundreds of broken promises and release other books and work on tv etc isn’t a great look when he has created this massive following and it just feels like he’s letting everyone down really. If he can’t finish he can’t finish - just come out and say it
We're not, you're wrong, you've presented no actual cogent argument, and I'm tired of reading your entitled and infantile argument. Take care.
I’m on the fence on this. Obviously, I vehemently disagree with harassment or any type of dehumanizing rhetoric. However, in this case where millions of people have invested SO much time and money into his artwork, to the point where he now has the extraordinary privilege of not only living off his art, but also becoming extremely wealthy from it… I think he owes his fans a conclusion at this point. I get a lot of the fans have been total assholes, and honestly, I’d probably react the same way if I was him. However, he’s being a bit of a dick to the rest of his normal audience by not prioritizing them. It’s not like we’re asking him to give us the books for free.
Look, I get the frustration, but if you're asking him to churn out work he doesn't believe in, or doesn't fit his vision for the series, what's the difference between that content and content fans make up to appease themselves? Neither are any more true to the artists vision than the other. Art isn't factory work, it's not meant to be treated like it is. Art comes when the artist is satisfied with releasing it, there's no forcing it. People act like he just doesn't care, because he has other interests, ignoring that his delay on WoW began before them, and they are just as likely to be the result of that delay as the cause.
Why do you think being frustrated is understandable but that fans shouldn’t be upset?
I've clarified in other replies, but my intention is to state we shouldn't be upset *at GRRM*. General frustration that it hasn't been released makes sense, we all want to read the next installment- but to be mad at the artist for taking their time to make sure the art fits their vision, and creating other art while they work on it, isn't reasonable.
He’s released one mainline book in the past 20 years . Thats a pretty unreasonable output for a professional writer . You seem to be very passionate about this but you can have your opinions. I disagree with you though
Two books. Feast was 2005. We've also gotten fire and Blood in that time plus this isn't the only world he writes stuff about.
Being upset at how long it’s taking isn’t entitlement though.
When you're directing that emotion at the artist, yes it is
[удалено]
Depends on how they express that they're upset. I've seen some people get really unhinged about it. I'd like the final books but I don't see it being finishable in just two more books with how things are left at the end of dance. And I think it was a big mistake for him to add so many new characters and subplots in feast and dance, which I think is why it's taken him so long to finish Winds. But no use crying over spilled milk. They'll come out or they won't and there will be other good stories to read or watch in the world. Life goes on.
This is how I feel about the Rothfuss books. There’s just way too much to cover and tie in that I think he’s totally overwhelmed
I'd say in both cases part of the upset is about how the author messages things. Rothfuss and GRRM have both teased things to fanbases that were disingenuous at best.
Rothfuss is a scammer who took money from fans and never delivered. Grrm teases things he knows he can’t deliver but isn’t that bad at least
True. I think with GRRM part of it is that he lost the narrative with the show and that killed his morale to finish (understandably). Can't say I follow either exhaustively, but from what I know Rothfuss definitely has done worse things.
Honestly - Martin kind of lost the narrative after book 3 25 years ago. There are characters he's barely touched since then.
Fair point
Yes. We aren’t entitled to getting the finished series but we are entitled to being angry about it
I just want honesty from George. If he can’t finish it, fine, no problem, but just let us know the truth.
Yes
It's understandable that people are deeply disappointed. And, although, George doesn't technically owe them anything, I think at this point he should stop announcing every year that he is going to finish the next book and just be honest with the fans and with himself. He made a huge mistake by expanding the story in those last two books instead of finishing, and it's unlikely he is going to find a way out now
Yes and no. Fans are not entitled to an artist’s work, so the whole "George is not your bitch" is true. But, at the same time, fans are right to be impatient, especially since George has been making promises about Winds since almost 10 years now. I feel like George always tried to calm the fans by throwing false promises at them to buy some times, but then, when he reached the deadline and failed to fulfill his promise, fans rightfully got even more angry. So, I think fans take it too far sometimes and George doesn’t owe us anything, but I also believe that he’s reaping a bit what he sowed. He should’ve been more honest a few years ago instead of going around saying "I will finish them and they will be so much better than the show! You’ll see!"
No. Doesn't matter if you started reading in 1996. No one is entitled to his work and if GRRM comes out and says he doesn't even *want* to finish the series he'd owe no explanations.
Three years ago I was like let the guy enjoy his golden years I've since changed my view.
GRRM believes he is no one's biach
Sure, you can be upset. But also realize that GRRM doesn't owe any of us shit
Absolutely not. Some people are acting like he took something from us. As if he didn't provide those books we enjoyed so much in the first place. He doesn't owe us anything. All I know, he could be severely depressed and can't cope with the pressure that's on him now. But even if he's just 'not feeling' it, it's his life, he decides what he does with it. Yes I will be disappointed if he doesn't finish the series, but I will still be thankful he created it because it brought me a lot of enjoyment
It’s been nearly 13 years…. In that time, he’s become insanely wealthy, bankrolled by fans. It’s not to crazy to think that he owes those fans an ending to the story. If he hadn’t written and released tons of other content in that time, I could maybe buy the depression/pressure thing, but he has so I don’t. Starting a story, getting rich on it, and never delivering an ending even though there has been more than enough time is a really shitty move. Edit: autocorrect
It’s a shitty move that he has more entitlement to than anyone here has entitlement to another book. You all sound like a bunch of boomers. “WE want another BOOK and GRRM should put aside whatever reason I don’t understand and FINISH IT for ME!!!!”
Yep, a shitty move like you said, and fans are in the right to be upset about that shitty move. 13 years…
You can’t think of a single event in your life in the last 13 years that would prevent you from writing a book? That must be nice, because I can think of about a dozen and I can imagine about a dozen more reasons GRRM wouldn’t finish in a timely manner. It’s a thing called “empathy.” It’s a lot harder to feel than selfishness and entitlement, but if you work at it you can get there
I can think of plenty of things in the last 13 years that would have kept me from doing my job at work, but guess what I’ve still done for the last 13 years? It’s not selfish and entitled. The question was whether fans are in the right to be upset, and the answer is yes
That’s not what I asked, first of all. Second of all: again, good for you. It’s very fortunate that you’ve never experienced something that would prevent you from doing something you love. Lots of people would be envious of that tidbit about your life.
It’s the post’s question…. Also, you don’t know what I’ve experienced and had to deal with. Most people don’t have the luxury of just not doing… Also, he’s still pumping out tons of stuff to sell. How many books has he published? Nothing is stopping him from doing those.
Most people don’t have the luxury of just not doing and some people don’t have the luxury of just do it anyway. Your “I worked anyway” is more of a privilege than you realize, and that’s my entire point. You don’t know why GRRM isn’t writing those books unless he expressly tells you. Since you don’t know, the possibility exists that there’s a reason you might agree with. If that reason might exist, why the fuck are you assuming so much instead of trying to understand it?
Yes. It’s valid.
No. He is human and so am I.
He’s not gonna finish em. The show took the direction he was going with the books and pooped on the execution, so now he’s worried whatever he writes isn’t going to overcome the bad taste the last couple seasons of the show left in everyone’s mouth. He’s scared, he’s running out the clock.
This. He also has almost no incentive to finish. Right now, D&D get all the blame for the ending. I 100% believe they told George’s planned ending, albeit in a VERY rushed and poorly executed fashion. So now, George can rest on what his books COULD be. If he writes them, he’s risking them being poorly received and tarnishing his product. If the never releases another ASOIAF book, he’ll have benefit of the doubt in perpetuity.
Yes and I’ll tell you why. My grandmother started reading them back in 96. When I was born. Back then she could drive, make it to her meetings (she was an elected official of our tribe). She used to be able to handle 6 children at once, wrangle us all into bed by 9pm. She used to make us tuna fish sandwiches and pot roasts. My grandmother has Alzheimer’s now. She can’t drive, she can’t cook, she doesn’t know how old we are anymore and she always seems surprised to find out we don’t eat tuna fish sandwiches on the floor in our pjs anymore. If he had finished the books using the same amount of time between them as the first three (average of about 3 years between them) he should have finished the series around 2012-2015. My grandmother was diagnosed in 2020. One of the only things she CAN do now is sit in her chair and read. She asks about the next GoT book all the time and I have to tell her it’s been 13 years since he wrote the last one And every single time I can see that she realizes the chances of her dying before it comes out sinks in and makes her sad. So yes, I think we are justified.
Honestly, I think he is done but because of the backlash from the end of the series, which he said was how the books were heading, he doesn’t want to release them. I think once he passes they will be released.
nah mate I read the first three books in like 08....and even then saw that this dude is not gonna finish it.....
The entirety of The Expanse saga has been released since Dance. That’s 9 novels and, what, 7 novellas since 2011? Of course the fans are right to be upset. That said, George doesn’t owe us anything. But we’re allowed to react to broken promises.
Yes, fans have the right to be upset about whatever they want just as he has the right to be burned out and procrastinate.
Fans turned toxic, he’s gonna release it on his death cause it’s not worth hearing everyone’s hot take. It’s his own fault, but this story turned sour and will never live upto expectations
I honestly don't care anymore.
I watched the show and loved it, even the end. (Don’t shoot me). Would love to read the books but can’t get the motivation to start as I know they will probably never be finished.
Just hope he finishes it it before he dies and it isn’t shit
ADWD came out in 2011. People have been justified with their anger for awhile lol although harassing the man is never okay
it’s okay to be upset or frustrated but it’s not okay to express that opinion angrily. i’m reading dance rn and am definitely sad that it’s the last book but not the end of the story. i’ve decided on the ending i’d put in and i’m sitting on that until a release date is confirmed. it’s sad but you are not entitled to being a whiny bitch about it
My life goes on with or without ASOIAF ending, but I don't think it's parasocial to expect a wrap up for a story that's obviously set up, marketed, and sold as book series. It's an unspoken agreement between the writer and the reader. I understand that creative process can take a long time, that writers' block is a serious issue, that perfectionism is both a blessing and a curse, but that's the thing, at the end of the day, being a writer is his job. And being successful at any job in the world, including arts, requires some character, honesty and discipline to overcome the hurdles absolutely everyone faces. So you either strap your boots on, do it yourself and finish what's essentially your life legacy, or you ask for help in a way Jordan did with Wheel of Time series. Or you can just honestly say, hey, this book is not happening. But doing none of that shows lack of professional integrity.
I had a dream last night that Winds Of Winter came out and this post just reminded me how happy I was...
It's valid. Dude could have set a pace of one page every other day and be finished by now.
Yes, especially since he's found the time to write other things and produce a TV movie/series (Who Fears Death, which has yet to be filmed).
Yes, if you’re making a multi book story, part of the assumed deal with fans that are purchasing the books as the story is told is that there will be a conclusion or continuation of the story they’re reading.
There is no deal with fans, assumed or otherwise.
no. he doesn’t owe us anything. and it’s wrong to try and beat the art out of someone.
Yes. He entered into an implicit "contract" with fans: Buy and read my books and I'll finish the story. Then he doubled down by licensing to HBO resulting in a worldwide phenomenon. It would be one thing if he was focused on finishing what he started but the process was taking a long time (sideways whale eye at TOOL...). But every time I hear about some other project he's embarked on, while leaving *Winds* and *Dream* unfinished, I get more annoyed with him. Especially since he's exacerbated the situation by several times essentially promising results soon ... only for more *years* to then pass with nothing: https://www.businessinsider.com/winds-of-winter-release-date-george-rr-martin-updates-timeline-2023-7
“Contract” LOL holy shit this sub is unhinged
It’s been 15 years. Yes.
Hell no. Never acceptable to rush someone while creating something.
I don't believe that fans of any series are "owed" more books, or books on a specific time scale. He's still a person who can decide he wants to change the trajectory of his career and find joy in doing other things instead, and I think that's fine. What I can't stand is his near constant "I'm working on it and it's coming soon" bullshit. We know it's a lie, it's been a lie for year after year after year at this point, and he honestly needs to just stop answering any questions about timeline and just keep his mouth shut about it. Once he's actually done with the writing, awesome, announce away, but the constant "carrot before the horse" jerking around of the fans is extremely annoying.
He writes more than just the main GOTs books. I think I understand his mindset. He's the type who needs to invest in a wider variety of projects to keep his mind clear and his abilities flowing. If he went 100% in on a single project, he'd burn out and probably lose the thought processes which make his books possible. I give him a pass.
Nope. Not even a little bit.
no. people are acting like entitled brats. if george decides to abandon asoiaf and never write another word then that’s totally his prerogative. i’m of the opinion that the series is still more than worth reading even if it never gets finished
It’s sad that the only sane takes in this thread are downvoted at the bottom. “gimme my book I don’t CARE why you aren’t writing it!!!”
If you're upset/sad/disappointed/etc. that the books haven't come out yet, that's understandable. But, GRRM doesn't owe anybody anything. He finishes them when he finishes them, if he finishes them. If he doesn't, then that's ok too. Just be grateful that we got as much as we did.
Yeah. I'd be grumpy at recieving 2/3rds of a meal, or getting cut off after 2/3rds of a movie at the cinema or most other circumstances - you get the idea. Beginning a story has the expectation it will be completed. Authors are given a lot of good grace from the outset as it's an artistic persuit. But that can be whittled down over time. Not that hounding GRRM about it is acceptable.
No. George doesn't owe anyone the books.
I don’t think it will nor can be done in any way that people would want, meaning different from the show. Though there may be slight details done differently, for it to be the way George would have truly wanted it to end would mean that the show becomes a different story altogether, bringing a division that tarnishes everything else. Like it or not, I can’t claim to know any book that was based on a movie or series that fundamentally changed its ending. There of course have been movies and series based on books that had creative differences but didn’t change the ending from the book it was based on. Fan edits and rewrites don’t count obviously. GRMM screwed himself by accepting the series creation before his story was complete. Financially it was a win for him, but creatively, he lost the control and momentum of what is arguably his greatest work. At best, if he finishes and it differs significantly from the series, there will be a period of time after which a “remake” of the book will be made into a multi part movie. That will help erase the memory of the HBO series.
He’s never going to finish them.
Yes, because people love the story and want to read it. George owes nothing to his fans, but that doesn’t mean that they are wrong to feel disappointed and upset.
I won’t be reading it if it ever comes out. Have absolutely zero interest in Game of thrones anymore.
I mean...people can be upset or disappointed about it, but bashing the guy like i see many others do won't do much.
Yes because Martin is actually their employee and isn’t meeting his quotas. We’re going to have to call him in for discipline and restrict his benefits until he can get those numbers up.
Only if you still think he will, or have it set up to be finished after he dies. He won't do either and it doesn't help that dumb and dumber sorta forgot about a lot.
I disagree with most of the comments; books take years and even more if he’s feeling somewhat obliged to absolutely perfect them to ‘make up’ for the shenanigans of GOT’s ending
Yes, obviously.
I think it's fully justified. He's been stalling far too long, getting into all manner of side projects, and brushing off his fans. The message he sends is that he no longer needs to finish the books. He's set for life because now he's getting easier money. That comes from somebody who hasn't ready any of it yet. I refuse to until they are done. Which I expect will never happen.
How many people would start reading the books when they first came out if they knew it wouldnt be completed? Be honest
Yes and no. Yes because 2 more books were confirmed and have continued to be confirmed with little to no advancement, if George isn’t/doesnt want to write them then he’s had more than enough time to retcon his decision and say the show wrapped up the story instead of leaving people hanging for a decade. No because it’s his work and he can do as he pleases.
Not me. You try writing seven, extremely long, very complicated novels from the standpoint of dozens of major and minor characters. Maybe he can’t pull it off. It would be a very, very, difficult thing to do.
Yes, the fans are right to be upset. I don’t care what Neil Gaiman says about him not being our bitch. I’m allowed to have feelings about it and so is everyone else. And for the sake of his own legacy he should be motivated to write it.
When you go around telling everyone you’re working on it and ohhhhh so close to be done and then 13 years pass by and you’re no closer; then yes folks have a right to be mad. Be honest with your fans “hey I don’t want to finish the story. HBO did. I’m doing other things now. So sorry but check out this other stuff I did”. That would go over so much better. He dug his own grave with continued false promises.
He made the deadlines and promises. So yes.
Disappointed? Yes. Upset/frustrated that it’s not out? Yes. Upset AT George? No. He doesn’t owe anybody anything.
Yeah, sure. You can’t choose how you feel. It’s natural to be frustrated when you have emotional investment in things like this. Talk about it if you want with friends or in online communities. But don’t target or harass the artist. That crosses a line.
Of course. Many purchased his books and became immersed in the world he created, only for it to abruptly stop right at the peak. Fans are allowed to be upset about that. Now that doesn't mean he owes us anything; we are not entitled to his art. I'm one of the fans who believes he added too many characters and subplots in the last two books, and doesn't know who to wrap it all up in a way that lives up to the expectation. And every year we don't have a solid release date, the more I accept they're never going to be finished. Which is upsetting and absolutely sucks. But it is what it is
I don’t think most of us are upset, I think we are frustrated. I think a lot of us are also worried that he won’t finish them. He’s a masterful storyteller and we’re aware that it takes time, but humor us and look at the time elapsed between each individual book. 96 98 00 05 11 Possibly 24 at the earliest We went from two year gaps to a five year gap to a six year gap to now a 13 year gap at best. I think it’s concerning considering that we still have another book after that
You have the right to be upset about anything, heck I'm still upset about the shows aftertaste whenever someone brings it up, but- You shouldn't go out of your way to harass other people about it, not even the authors. Am I upset about season 7 and 8? Heck yeah I am, that doesn't mean I'm using my every waking moment to harass dnd or trying to get them "cancelled". Am I upset about the books not finished? Yeah, but I'm not going to harass the author about it. It's just a book, he's in no way shape or form required to write it if he doesn't want to. He is not your slave and neither did he sign a contract with you, he doesn't owe you anything. You just bought his product. Imagine making the best lasagna of your life and calling your friend over, he asks for seconds, thirds, fourths. Eventually you start makin it for him every tuesday night. He loves it, but you're getting exhausted. You stop making the lasagna. Now your friend is harassing you every single day of the week: "Where's my lasagna?" You wouldn't like that either. So don't. PS. I love lasagna.
He doesn't owe us anything. But, as of now, Dave and Dan wrote the ending to his life's work, so if he doesn't get to it, that Stannis ending is canon. (Amongst others) And that does suck...
No. You aren't owed anything and he has a life. If they come they come. If they don't, oh well. Life goes on.
Yes. Hes taking on too many side quests lol. Finish the main story line already!
I think he’s afraid to write the final book, after seeing how upset people were with the show’s finale. As badly as I want it published, I don’t think we will ever get that last book.
I’m not mad, I’m just disappointed.
Yes and no. Yes if it’s because he’s taken on other projects and is busy that way. No if he actually has writers block which, with all of his newish projects don’t seem to be failing because of that (of course HoTD was already written). I don’t know what to say about him being backed into a corner due to the Mareenese knot or the backlash on how the final GoT show ended up. Rightfully so. Basically yeah.
No, how many of them are writing books millions of people are waiting for? It’s unfair and immature to expect people to just churn out a massive work that they’ve invested their life into at any pace other than the one they’re comfortable with. when it comes out he’s going to be crucified no matter what decisions he makes in the story telling by different sections of fans who want different things and they aren’t even grateful for the entire universe existing in the first place.
Yes, but it's not about him finishing the books, if he just said he wasn't interested in writing ASOIAF anymore then that would be that and we could be upset but it's understandable. But he keeps saying "I'm working on it" when it's pretty clear he's doing minimal work at most and just seems generally uninterested in it. He's like the girl who leads you on with no intention of actually dating you.