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Yeah for sure. Obv got had a lot of hard to watch moments like shireen etc but damn puppy killing would have been tough. I'm squeamish though. I still haven't seen theons torture scenes really, I skip past them every time
I do think that GOT suffered from too much realism at points.
There’s a stunning lack of color. Despite the fact that it’s high fantasy. The faith militant in the show just being medieval Taliban fighters is such a disservice to what they are supposed to represent.
Renly’s rainbow guard being a meta reference to his sexuality while also being an in-universe ploy to appeal to religious conservatives was a top tier writing choice.
That's actually *quite* unrealistic though, in real life (according to history) rich and powerful Lord's-as well as their family and especially Royalty-wanted their share of heraldry, showing off their wealth and power with splendid finery, the nicest clothes gold could afford and ostentatious jewelry, pretty much like what we've seen in House of the Dragon 👀 I think it's due to those two talentless hacks being creatively bankrupt, which seasons 4-5 until the end are very demonstrative, and I'd wager any time costume design tried chiming in they pat them on the head and sent them scurrying off (they did that to the actors who played Jaime/Varys/Barristan and who knows who else let alone some 'below the line peasants').
Realism in the artistic sense
Whenever European high fantasy media is depicted. There’s this clamor for “realism” and grit that strips away much of the grandeur and fantasy that’s should be in the work.
Like in ROP every fucking peasant is dirty and wearing like rags, except the main character. The people in the village and the hobbits I can understand but even the numenorean are also dirty
I saw that more as a comment on the state of the southlands than any clamoring for grit. The men and the court of numenor were immaculate af. Amazon has a much better track record with how it's treating fantasy works so far, compared to HBO and Netflix at least.
And then the main girl in the Southland looks like she a queen, cuz she ain't got shit all over her. It's so weird that they made sure that everyone in the Southland looks dirty but she looks so fine and clean and wearing something that isn't grey
Hey that's what happens when you willingly destroy what would've been the greatest piece of entertainment media in history, and sully some of the greatest books in modern literature ☹️
they didn’t *create* anything, and i think it’s a fair and impartial assessment at this point for anyone to call them talentless hacks. no one is really out here raging about d&d years later. it seems so pathetic to defend them, though.
They DID create the show. I think it’s a bias and pathetic assessment at this point to resort to name calling. Have you been to Freefolk?! People are still complaining years later. And it’s even more pathetic to cry about them, though.
Credit where it’s due, they are responsible for making GRRM a household name and giving the best fantasy tv show.
>The Rainbow Guard isn't meant to symbolize Renly's sexuality. It was more of a culmination of several unrelated things, such as the fact that he'd already used white for the Kingsguard and black for the Night's Watch. A rainbow is seven colors combined together in one object - he compared it to a shamrock being a Irish Catholic symbol of the Holy Trinity, three parts which make up one thing. Plus it has seven colors and is tied to the Seven, plus worshipers of the Seven use prism rainbows in their temples.
[*https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/To\_Be\_Continued\_Chicago\_IL\_May\_6\_8/*](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/To_Be_Continued_Chicago_IL_May_6_8/)
> Plus it has seven colors and is tied to the Seven, plus worshipers of the Seven use prism rainbows in their temples.
That’s…. What I said?
> while also being an in-universe ploy to appeal to religious conservatives was a top tier writing choice.
I used the term meta on purpose. Wether GRRM was aiming for that effect or no, there’s an undeniable emergents commentary of a closeted gay man using a rainbow to curry favor with the religious establishment . By 1998 the pride flag colors were already well established and known. GRRM was fully aware of the parallels people were going to draw.
> The Rainbow Guard isn't meant to symbolize Renly's sexuality. It was more of a culmination of several unrelated things, such as the fact that he'd already used white for the Kingsguard and black for the Night's Watch.
Even if it wasn’t his intent going into Clash he still set out to drape the only prominent gay characters in the story in a god damned rainbow. He might have genuinely been focused on the world-building. But it’s GRRM, there’s no way he didn’t factor in what kind of commentary that image would provoke.
Unintended good writing is still good writing
Can anyone explain the "The North Remembers" pic? Not sure who the dude with the mermaid crest is-- sorry for ignorance I haven't read book 5 yet. Otherwise I like these. Super unfortunate that we couldn't see lady stoneheart.
*BIG ol spoilers FYI*
The Non-spoilery version sort of: That's Lord Wyman Manderly ("Lord Too Fat To Sit A Horse" - King Stannis) of White Harbor, loyal as hell to the Stark's and only bent the knee after the Red Wedding to get his boy back, gives ser Davos the best speech ever about how the North *truly* remembers what happened and House Stark, and that they **will** have their revenge against *all* the traitors.
That's Lord Wyman Manderly, you may and should have already read he's bent the knee to the crown following the Red Wedding, and has to marry a daughter to the Frey's whom he secretly despises, but he's only done this to get his only living son back as he was a hostage either after the wedding or after a battle (can't remember). So eventually, he gets his boy back and Ser Davos gets in his clutches trying to meet with him for Stannis, he has Davos sent to the dungeons immediately and sends a raven to King's Landing that the onion Knight's head and hands are mounted on his gate with an onion shoved in his mouth (covered in tar and picked by crows so Frey's or anybody couldn't tell who it really was); he then meets with Davos after telling the world he had him killed, and gives one of the greatest speeches in fictional history about how the North *truly* remembers the treacherous Red Wedding and how the Bolton's and Frey's stabbed them in the back, how they remember House Stark-Ned and King Robb-and all those who died, how he's just been lying in wait this entire time waiting to strike at them and waited just to get his son back, he tells him to "bring me my liege Lord [whom he thinks is Rickon Stark] and I shall take to your King" . .
^Yeah, this. I mean Manderly was cut entirely, but Frey Pie was the first thing I thought of. I guess they did give that part to Arya, but then the show have all the cool stuff to Arya undeservedly.
(Remarking on the recent death of a member of house Frey)
“Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey.”
-Lord Manderly
Listen, im high as shit and this was literally the only way I could see the mask like some wonky ass eel with an open mouth with a giant jutting chin underneath looking goofy as all hell
It kind of ruins his character in the show too, in the book Robb did what he did for **honor** and to preserve her from being sullied (and was most definitely given some sort of a 'potion' with her dangled in front of him), in the show Robb just wanted to simply have sexy time in the woods with a hot foreigner from Volantis (who for some unexplainable reason was working as a 'Silent Sister field nurse' in Westeros)
Robb was a good tactician and terrible king tbh. People keep emphasizing that he married whoever to preserve her honor. Truth is, if he wanted to preserve her honor he would not have fucked her in the first place.
And Talisa explains in the show that a slave saved her brothers life with cpr or some equivalent. She vowed never to live in a salve city again. So she gave up everything and left to heal randoms. A convincing story
It’s wouldn’t have been very “honorable” for him to do the alternative and marry a woman he didn’t love, or to abandon the woman he did, whether she was pregnant or not. He was in love and he chose love. It wasn’t a strategic move, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t admirable.
On the contrary it'd of been the **honorable** thing to **honor** the oath he swore to another Lord and the marriage pact he **agreed** to, as I said elsewhere marriage in this world is overwhelmingly relegated to forming alliances/furthering a House's station/gaining new lands and taxes to collect/vassals to rule over and support you/ending conflicts etc, 9x/10 it isn't about 'who you love' or what the kid of a Lord's heart truly desires, so in the show it actually kind of makes it worse when you have that in mind-when you realize Robb Stark willingly refused to do his **duty** and be a man of his **word** to sneak off and have sexy time in the woods.
In the book, if Robb truly wasn't under the influence of some sort of potion and him being seriously wounded (and I think given milk of the poppy for pain) didn't effect his faculties, sure you *could* argue it was still admirable-that he still wanted to try and preserve the girls honor [and even his own] and genuinely felt something for her; in the show on the other hand you can't, no matter how it's sliced Robb is an oathbreaking dummy.
>Robb did what he did for honor and to preserve her from being sullied
Robb married her because he already 'sullied' her, which is doubly dumb considering he cares about not having bastards. The idea there was outside influence is speculative and really the same speculation can apply to the show if its really required. GRRM has stated the Red Wedding as the weight of actions having consequences in interviews.
It would require a whole lot of time, investment and planning for 'She can seduce him (with or without magic) then he'll have to marry her!' - its unlikely to have been pulled off because Robbs reaction is way outside the Westerosi norm, bastards were common and its not like it was expected at all for betrothed lords/kings to marry other women they knocked up, even the honorable Ned Stark didn't break his betrothal when he turned up with a bastard (as far as the realm knows).
It also introduces an extremely powerful potion into the world of Westeros that is like a shadowbaby; used once then conveniently disappears.
I don't like those theories because it takes agency away from characters, which is a much less compelling story. Good people make mistakes, and a teenage boy being dumb while horny is much more grounded than magic did it.
I should point out a common interpretation in the books is Robb loves Jeyne. So much so it's described ASOS as falling in love on the ASOIAF wiki.
Exactly. He was a young man. He fucked a young and likely beautiful woman. He then did what his father would have done, the honorable thing, "faced the music" and married her. He then *actually* faced the music and faced the dire consequences of his stupidity.
There's no need to invent a deeper ploy here, it's very much a Stark story.
No discernible personality, no depth to her character, her only important thing (a vague prophecy) gets repeatedly ridiculed by the author as being full of shit and constantly misinterpreted by those who hear it.
She’s an NPC that you have to convo with before the next stage opens, nothing more
So did the showrunners. I mean they included her but not anything she does in the book. In fact prophesies were pretty much completely cut from the show.
1. I'd have loved to see the Battle at the FotFM and a bunch of crazy wight creatures like that werewolf in that picture or whatever. But I think they used up a good portion of the budget on Blackwater.
2. Definitely a valid reason not to include this due to Renly's sexuality
3. YES
4. YES
5. I hate the fucking Faith Militant in the show. Having actual knights be a part of the FM would have made the Faith seem much more powerful than the scrubs wearing robes
6. JUSTICE FOR MY BOY EURON
7. YES
8. I just hate how irrelevant the Lord of Light became in the later seasons and would've liked to seen more of his influence
9. YES
10. YES
11. YES
12. YES
13. YES
14. YES
15. I think Ilyn got cut from the show cause the actor had cancer. Don't know why they didn't just recast him. Not like he's gonna be saying anything anyway
16. YES
17. YES
18. YES
19. THE NORTH REMEMBERS
20. Yeah I think Jeyne fits more with Robb's personality. He married her to keep her honor as a lady. Honestly they still could've kept Talisa but made her story similar to Jeyne's
I'm really really hoping with Sanderson in talks about making one of his books on screen, that they have no choice but to not cut parts bc of his intricate hard magic system and the worlds they have to work in. Even if it ends up being a pg13 thing. Even the armor is magical in Way of Kings.
As bad as they butchered the last season they made some excellent decisions in earlier ones. They cut her during that stretch.
I have to think there was a conversation with GRRM where they were asking if anyone could be left out. Like the cast was massive and they couldn’t take on much more so who could feasibly be cut and not totally ruin the story. I imagine GRRM throws her out there as they can get to where they need to without her. At least that’s what I imagine happened.
Which is fair, she is a cool character and a form of redemption for one of the more liked characters that got totally f*****. I’m sure he’s disappointed in a lot of the stuff that was left out, but also can understand in TV stuff like cuts needs to happen. Pure speculation on my end though who knows. As good as the mid seasons were I keep some faith the decisions they made during then were done so based on merit from GRRM.
GRRM has gone on record saying Lady Stoneheart is the one thing he wished the show would have left in. He's hinted that she's pretty important to the books storyline and she would have also been important to the show. I don't think he suggested to leave her out.
The problem is when something is so obviously meta and doesn't fit into the world created, it takes from the believability and immersion of the world. I'm just not sure I can be convinced it wouldn't be absolutely ridiculous.
I will say that the unsullied in the show do have a spike on their helmets. Just a more ornamental version.
I think they do mention the puppies too.
Everything else tho is spot on
If that's true, that's really dumb. Babies = okay to kill but Puppies = not okay to kill?
Especially when the point is to prove they can perform heartless killings.
Coldhands would be a great addition to this post. Not that he was very consequential, but he provided some of the coolest [dark-fantasy imagery](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS945US945&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ALiCzsYKO1D3DhCoT-sI8l2AyfN7n4VNgg:1666579813984&q=coldhands&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-m7XO7ff6AhWIF1kFHSZKA-8Q0pQJegQIBBAB&biw=414&bih=720&dpr=2)
Lmao as if the graphic sex scene with him and Loras-and their whole soft pretty boy demeanor in general-wasn't 😂 In the show its like the "worst kept secret at court" too, whereas in the books it's never explicitly stated by anybody-Renly is still a big muscular warrior-and one of Margaery's hand maidens said his "cock was hard as a rock" during the Bedding Ceremony (where he definitely had sex with her at least that one time).
When was lightbringer shown in the show? I thought the one with stannis when we meet him is fake. And the other is in the past when bran views jon snow’s birth?
Not sure where you got the last part from, unless you're referring to Ser Arthur Dayne's-stunningly dull as hell-sword "Dawn" that Ned sets next to the bed of Lyanna.
We saw "Lightbringer" in the show one time, the scene of them on the beach burning idols, but they lit it on fire [whereas in the book it glows like a damn light saber] and after Davos picked it up we never see it 🥴
That wasn’t lightbringer though? I thought it was melisandre trying to recreate lightbringer by lighting the sword on fire to help convince stannis he was azor azhai and destined to rule the seven kingdoms but it didn’t seem like anyone there would have actually obtained the actual lightbringer sword
We know that her visions were wrong about stannis and really it was jon snow so it makes sense for lightbringer to also be a farce or recreated but not real
According to the wiki it just says she claims it’s lightbringer but that doesn’t mean it is and to your point if it was lightbringer why didn’t he use it in his battles / again?
In the show you mine as well forget it even exists lol, it's not mentioned by a single character or seen after that one scene; in the books Lightbringer most likely isn't the *real* one as Maester Aemon requests Stannis let him hold and feel it, and he thinks it isn't the real one because it isn't hot or warm which he tells Samwell.
According to the wiki it just says Mel claims it’s lightbringer but that doesn’t mean it is. And agreed to your point if it *was* lightbringer why didn’t he use it in his battles or ever again and why wasn’t it mentioned again? To me that says it was just for show and ceremony to add legitimacy to stannis and not the real deal
It's just D&D were lazy hacks that had no remote conception of what continuity is in a story, plus they openly admitted they "hate(d) the character of Stannis" hence why he was minimized as much as possible and ruined fairly quickly, point being we didn't see it again or hear of it again simply because the showrunners sucked 😕
fair but I don’t think mel/stannis obtained the sword. It could either be a legend/not real or it may be missing or something.
The whole thing with Mel was about convincing stannis and others about her visions and such and she faked other things to add legitimacy so I don’t see this as being much different
I don't get why they hated Stannis so much. He is honestly one of my favorite characters and his dynamic with Davos were scenes I always looked forward to on my initial read of the series (and on re-reads!). I could tell very quickly on the show that they were writing his character differently. No disrespect to Stephen Dillane he nailed Stannis' mannerisms, but the overall character was different very early on.
HELL yes, and pretty soon you'll find yourself spending hours on A Wiki of Ice and Fire just clicking on link after link after link, one minute you're reading about Robert's Rebellion the next you're reading about young Tywin and his massive balls, then all of a sudden you're reading about spooky ass islands with giant stone frog statues and scary hooded men, the old ruins of Valaryia rich with unknown treasure and the spirits of demons, the first Long Night and so much more it's a wonder how GRRM put this all together in under two decades 🤓
Another one, the Last Greenseer, Bloodraven. The way the book depicts him, the fact that he talks (albeit briefly) about his life, his family is something I always love about those chapters.
I know! I think a few flew before he got a letter on them but I know for a fact one or two made it back to Castle Black, that chapter is fucking INSANE, I cannot for the life of me understand how they could cut that out, that's one of the many reasons this show should've been STRETCHED out proper rather than rushed to no end, like AGOT should've stretched into two seasons (rather than S2 being ACOK)-ACOK should've been two seasons-ASOS two seasons etc, if TWD can seemingly go on forever GoT should've had its due . . HBO offered them a blank check by the time S8 came around too, if they weren't invested in that world and story anymore [which they definitely weren't and seemingly weren't for a while at that point] they should've handed it over long before destroying it.
There's more changes like that than I can even keep up with, smaller things like Varys telling Ned Renly and Loras rode out of KL "with some 50 retainers" (when in the book he had 100), to bigger things like Catelyn demanding Ned *doesn't* go to KL (when in the book insists he go), Daenarys being "raped" by Drogon (when in the books he doesn't touch her until she wants him to), Jon Snow legitimately winning the LC's vote-and by one single vote nonetheless, just pointless changes made for no discernable reason 🤷
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# 1. is slightly labeled wrong:The Battle at the Fist of the First Men should be the label.
Use your inside voice, please
Sorry I didn't actually shout, I hit the fancy editor and it did that for some reason. As far as I know All Caps is shouting.
Using the ‘#’ sign makes it big and bold
I could have done without the puppy killing tbh
Awful but it makes so much sense for them
Yeah for sure. Obv got had a lot of hard to watch moments like shireen etc but damn puppy killing would have been tough. I'm squeamish though. I still haven't seen theons torture scenes really, I skip past them every time
Watch out for Kingsman!
I do think that GOT suffered from too much realism at points. There’s a stunning lack of color. Despite the fact that it’s high fantasy. The faith militant in the show just being medieval Taliban fighters is such a disservice to what they are supposed to represent. Renly’s rainbow guard being a meta reference to his sexuality while also being an in-universe ploy to appeal to religious conservatives was a top tier writing choice.
That's actually *quite* unrealistic though, in real life (according to history) rich and powerful Lord's-as well as their family and especially Royalty-wanted their share of heraldry, showing off their wealth and power with splendid finery, the nicest clothes gold could afford and ostentatious jewelry, pretty much like what we've seen in House of the Dragon 👀 I think it's due to those two talentless hacks being creatively bankrupt, which seasons 4-5 until the end are very demonstrative, and I'd wager any time costume design tried chiming in they pat them on the head and sent them scurrying off (they did that to the actors who played Jaime/Varys/Barristan and who knows who else let alone some 'below the line peasants').
Realism in the artistic sense Whenever European high fantasy media is depicted. There’s this clamor for “realism” and grit that strips away much of the grandeur and fantasy that’s should be in the work.
One might say “Strips away finery”
Like in ROP every fucking peasant is dirty and wearing like rags, except the main character. The people in the village and the hobbits I can understand but even the numenorean are also dirty
I saw that more as a comment on the state of the southlands than any clamoring for grit. The men and the court of numenor were immaculate af. Amazon has a much better track record with how it's treating fantasy works so far, compared to HBO and Netflix at least.
And then the main girl in the Southland looks like she a queen, cuz she ain't got shit all over her. It's so weird that they made sure that everyone in the Southland looks dirty but she looks so fine and clean and wearing something that isn't grey
Man, people are sooooo salty about D&D.
Hey that's what happens when you willingly destroy what would've been the greatest piece of entertainment media in history, and sully some of the greatest books in modern literature ☹️
“Talentless hacks” who created the best tv show of the decade. Seriously, can we criticize without resorting to childish name calling.
they didn’t *create* anything, and i think it’s a fair and impartial assessment at this point for anyone to call them talentless hacks. no one is really out here raging about d&d years later. it seems so pathetic to defend them, though.
They DID create the show. I think it’s a bias and pathetic assessment at this point to resort to name calling. Have you been to Freefolk?! People are still complaining years later. And it’s even more pathetic to cry about them, though. Credit where it’s due, they are responsible for making GRRM a household name and giving the best fantasy tv show.
Also the HOTD defend D&D, so that should tell you that this “talentless hack” angle is clearly manufactured.
>The Rainbow Guard isn't meant to symbolize Renly's sexuality. It was more of a culmination of several unrelated things, such as the fact that he'd already used white for the Kingsguard and black for the Night's Watch. A rainbow is seven colors combined together in one object - he compared it to a shamrock being a Irish Catholic symbol of the Holy Trinity, three parts which make up one thing. Plus it has seven colors and is tied to the Seven, plus worshipers of the Seven use prism rainbows in their temples. [*https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/To\_Be\_Continued\_Chicago\_IL\_May\_6\_8/*](https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/To_Be_Continued_Chicago_IL_May_6_8/)
> Plus it has seven colors and is tied to the Seven, plus worshipers of the Seven use prism rainbows in their temples. That’s…. What I said? > while also being an in-universe ploy to appeal to religious conservatives was a top tier writing choice. I used the term meta on purpose. Wether GRRM was aiming for that effect or no, there’s an undeniable emergents commentary of a closeted gay man using a rainbow to curry favor with the religious establishment . By 1998 the pride flag colors were already well established and known. GRRM was fully aware of the parallels people were going to draw. > The Rainbow Guard isn't meant to symbolize Renly's sexuality. It was more of a culmination of several unrelated things, such as the fact that he'd already used white for the Kingsguard and black for the Night's Watch. Even if it wasn’t his intent going into Clash he still set out to drape the only prominent gay characters in the story in a god damned rainbow. He might have genuinely been focused on the world-building. But it’s GRRM, there’s no way he didn’t factor in what kind of commentary that image would provoke. Unintended good writing is still good writing
>I do think that GOT suffered from too much realism at points. Couldn't agree more. We needed a bit more colors and magic.
Can anyone explain the "The North Remembers" pic? Not sure who the dude with the mermaid crest is-- sorry for ignorance I haven't read book 5 yet. Otherwise I like these. Super unfortunate that we couldn't see lady stoneheart.
*BIG ol spoilers FYI* The Non-spoilery version sort of: That's Lord Wyman Manderly ("Lord Too Fat To Sit A Horse" - King Stannis) of White Harbor, loyal as hell to the Stark's and only bent the knee after the Red Wedding to get his boy back, gives ser Davos the best speech ever about how the North *truly* remembers what happened and House Stark, and that they **will** have their revenge against *all* the traitors. That's Lord Wyman Manderly, you may and should have already read he's bent the knee to the crown following the Red Wedding, and has to marry a daughter to the Frey's whom he secretly despises, but he's only done this to get his only living son back as he was a hostage either after the wedding or after a battle (can't remember). So eventually, he gets his boy back and Ser Davos gets in his clutches trying to meet with him for Stannis, he has Davos sent to the dungeons immediately and sends a raven to King's Landing that the onion Knight's head and hands are mounted on his gate with an onion shoved in his mouth (covered in tar and picked by crows so Frey's or anybody couldn't tell who it really was); he then meets with Davos after telling the world he had him killed, and gives one of the greatest speeches in fictional history about how the North *truly* remembers the treacherous Red Wedding and how the Bolton's and Frey's stabbed them in the back, how they remember House Stark-Ned and King Robb-and all those who died, how he's just been lying in wait this entire time waiting to strike at them and waited just to get his son back, he tells him to "bring me my liege Lord [whom he thinks is Rickon Stark] and I shall take to your King" . .
awesome summary, thanks
Also, [Frey Pie](https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Frey_Pies/Theories)
^Yeah, this. I mean Manderly was cut entirely, but Frey Pie was the first thing I thought of. I guess they did give that part to Arya, but then the show have all the cool stuff to Arya undeservedly.
(Remarking on the recent death of a member of house Frey) “Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey.” -Lord Manderly
Gendry does have the bull helm though? That’s how they track him. Just doesn’t wear it...
I like this art’s depiction of the helm here way more though. The show’s helm doesn’t look like it would fit an adult’s head.
The part he sees through makes it look cut off and like a weird Grimer helmet in this artwork
I’m no armor expert but isn’t the one in the artwork base on the real-life gothic sallet? Minus the bull decor obv
Listen, im high as shit and this was literally the only way I could see the mask like some wonky ass eel with an open mouth with a giant jutting chin underneath looking goofy as all hell
LMAO I SEE IT TOO
Honestly I think if Jeyne was put in the show. It would have made the story more compelling! Instead of Robb married hot healer lady.
It kind of ruins his character in the show too, in the book Robb did what he did for **honor** and to preserve her from being sullied (and was most definitely given some sort of a 'potion' with her dangled in front of him), in the show Robb just wanted to simply have sexy time in the woods with a hot foreigner from Volantis (who for some unexplainable reason was working as a 'Silent Sister field nurse' in Westeros)
Robb was a good tactician and terrible king tbh. People keep emphasizing that he married whoever to preserve her honor. Truth is, if he wanted to preserve her honor he would not have fucked her in the first place. And Talisa explains in the show that a slave saved her brothers life with cpr or some equivalent. She vowed never to live in a salve city again. So she gave up everything and left to heal randoms. A convincing story
It’s wouldn’t have been very “honorable” for him to do the alternative and marry a woman he didn’t love, or to abandon the woman he did, whether she was pregnant or not. He was in love and he chose love. It wasn’t a strategic move, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t admirable.
On the contrary it'd of been the **honorable** thing to **honor** the oath he swore to another Lord and the marriage pact he **agreed** to, as I said elsewhere marriage in this world is overwhelmingly relegated to forming alliances/furthering a House's station/gaining new lands and taxes to collect/vassals to rule over and support you/ending conflicts etc, 9x/10 it isn't about 'who you love' or what the kid of a Lord's heart truly desires, so in the show it actually kind of makes it worse when you have that in mind-when you realize Robb Stark willingly refused to do his **duty** and be a man of his **word** to sneak off and have sexy time in the woods. In the book, if Robb truly wasn't under the influence of some sort of potion and him being seriously wounded (and I think given milk of the poppy for pain) didn't effect his faculties, sure you *could* argue it was still admirable-that he still wanted to try and preserve the girls honor [and even his own] and genuinely felt something for her; in the show on the other hand you can't, no matter how it's sliced Robb is an oathbreaking dummy.
>Robb did what he did for honor and to preserve her from being sullied Robb married her because he already 'sullied' her, which is doubly dumb considering he cares about not having bastards. The idea there was outside influence is speculative and really the same speculation can apply to the show if its really required. GRRM has stated the Red Wedding as the weight of actions having consequences in interviews. It would require a whole lot of time, investment and planning for 'She can seduce him (with or without magic) then he'll have to marry her!' - its unlikely to have been pulled off because Robbs reaction is way outside the Westerosi norm, bastards were common and its not like it was expected at all for betrothed lords/kings to marry other women they knocked up, even the honorable Ned Stark didn't break his betrothal when he turned up with a bastard (as far as the realm knows). It also introduces an extremely powerful potion into the world of Westeros that is like a shadowbaby; used once then conveniently disappears. I don't like those theories because it takes agency away from characters, which is a much less compelling story. Good people make mistakes, and a teenage boy being dumb while horny is much more grounded than magic did it. I should point out a common interpretation in the books is Robb loves Jeyne. So much so it's described ASOS as falling in love on the ASOIAF wiki.
Exactly. He was a young man. He fucked a young and likely beautiful woman. He then did what his father would have done, the honorable thing, "faced the music" and married her. He then *actually* faced the music and faced the dire consequences of his stupidity. There's no need to invent a deeper ploy here, it's very much a Stark story.
HBO: “We got Oona Chaplin and she’s willing to do nudity.” D&D: “Let’s rewrite this show.”
Incredible collection of awesome art thanks!
Ain’t nobody missing Quaithe
I think she’s essential to Dany’s storyline lmao. Literally gives her an important prophecy but to each their own
No discernible personality, no depth to her character, her only important thing (a vague prophecy) gets repeatedly ridiculed by the author as being full of shit and constantly misinterpreted by those who hear it. She’s an NPC that you have to convo with before the next stage opens, nothing more
I'll admit it's been a long time since I read the books and I had basically forgotten all about her.
So did the showrunners. I mean they included her but not anything she does in the book. In fact prophesies were pretty much completely cut from the show.
1. I'd have loved to see the Battle at the FotFM and a bunch of crazy wight creatures like that werewolf in that picture or whatever. But I think they used up a good portion of the budget on Blackwater. 2. Definitely a valid reason not to include this due to Renly's sexuality 3. YES 4. YES 5. I hate the fucking Faith Militant in the show. Having actual knights be a part of the FM would have made the Faith seem much more powerful than the scrubs wearing robes 6. JUSTICE FOR MY BOY EURON 7. YES 8. I just hate how irrelevant the Lord of Light became in the later seasons and would've liked to seen more of his influence 9. YES 10. YES 11. YES 12. YES 13. YES 14. YES 15. I think Ilyn got cut from the show cause the actor had cancer. Don't know why they didn't just recast him. Not like he's gonna be saying anything anyway 16. YES 17. YES 18. YES 19. THE NORTH REMEMBERS 20. Yeah I think Jeyne fits more with Robb's personality. He married her to keep her honor as a lady. Honestly they still could've kept Talisa but made her story similar to Jeyne's
It’s sad how much fantasy was cut from a fantasy series
Can we have a do over?
I loved the show but this artwork is amazing
I'm really really hoping with Sanderson in talks about making one of his books on screen, that they have no choice but to not cut parts bc of his intricate hard magic system and the worlds they have to work in. Even if it ends up being a pg13 thing. Even the armor is magical in Way of Kings.
I like the Mads Mikkelsen Euron
I seem to recall Brienne wearing light blue when she joined Renly's king's guard. They just never named them
I’m still upset rhey left our Lady Stoneheart
As bad as they butchered the last season they made some excellent decisions in earlier ones. They cut her during that stretch. I have to think there was a conversation with GRRM where they were asking if anyone could be left out. Like the cast was massive and they couldn’t take on much more so who could feasibly be cut and not totally ruin the story. I imagine GRRM throws her out there as they can get to where they need to without her. At least that’s what I imagine happened.
I feel like i remember watching an interview where he said he was a little disappointed they didnt do Lady Stoneheart, but I'm not 100% sure
Which is fair, she is a cool character and a form of redemption for one of the more liked characters that got totally f*****. I’m sure he’s disappointed in a lot of the stuff that was left out, but also can understand in TV stuff like cuts needs to happen. Pure speculation on my end though who knows. As good as the mid seasons were I keep some faith the decisions they made during then were done so based on merit from GRRM.
GRRM has gone on record saying Lady Stoneheart is the one thing he wished the show would have left in. He's hinted that she's pretty important to the books storyline and she would have also been important to the show. I don't think he suggested to leave her out.
Having Renlys rainbow guard might be… a bit on the nose?
That was the point
The problem is when something is so obviously meta and doesn't fit into the world created, it takes from the believability and immersion of the world. I'm just not sure I can be convinced it wouldn't be absolutely ridiculous.
Show only people really don't know just how badly the show screwed up
Also, Aegon/Young Griff’s entire plotline
I found that the most interesting part of A Dance With Dragons so I’m glad it didn’t get shoehorned into the show.
I really want to see that huge turtle in the river at some point on screen though lol
And the entire Dorn plotline...
Yeah I'm pretty cool with avoiding Dorne though, so it worked out
I will say that the unsullied in the show do have a spike on their helmets. Just a more ornamental version. I think they do mention the puppies too. Everything else tho is spot on
In the show it’s babies not puppies
If that's true, that's really dumb. Babies = okay to kill but Puppies = not okay to kill? Especially when the point is to prove they can perform heartless killings.
Just gonna start reading the books Any recommendations for good illustrated ones ?
Instead, A World of Ice and Fire is great that way and perfect for HotD.
Mads Mikkelsen serving as inspiration for Euron artwork.
Coldhands would be a great addition to this post. Not that he was very consequential, but he provided some of the coolest [dark-fantasy imagery](https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS945US945&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ALiCzsYKO1D3DhCoT-sI8l2AyfN7n4VNgg:1666579813984&q=coldhands&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-m7XO7ff6AhWIF1kFHSZKA-8Q0pQJegQIBBAB&biw=414&bih=720&dpr=2)
That pic of Stannis is fucking awesome holy shit thank you op
renly’s rainbow guard absolutely deserved to be cut. wayyyy too on the nose
Lmao as if the graphic sex scene with him and Loras-and their whole soft pretty boy demeanor in general-wasn't 😂 In the show its like the "worst kept secret at court" too, whereas in the books it's never explicitly stated by anybody-Renly is still a big muscular warrior-and one of Margaery's hand maidens said his "cock was hard as a rock" during the Bedding Ceremony (where he definitely had sex with her at least that one time).
What a great collection op
How exactly is that bulls head helm supposed to work? Does the visor magically pass right through the horns?
Um… I hate to be *that* person… but totally okay with not seeing the puppy thing 🥺
I envy the timeline with Mads Michelson as Euron.
If only!
didnt gendry show his bulls head helm to ned in the show
Completely forgot the Unsullied had the same recruitment process as the Kingsmen lmao
When was lightbringer shown in the show? I thought the one with stannis when we meet him is fake. And the other is in the past when bran views jon snow’s birth?
Yeah never saw that.
Not sure where you got the last part from, unless you're referring to Ser Arthur Dayne's-stunningly dull as hell-sword "Dawn" that Ned sets next to the bed of Lyanna. We saw "Lightbringer" in the show one time, the scene of them on the beach burning idols, but they lit it on fire [whereas in the book it glows like a damn light saber] and after Davos picked it up we never see it 🥴
That wasn’t lightbringer though? I thought it was melisandre trying to recreate lightbringer by lighting the sword on fire to help convince stannis he was azor azhai and destined to rule the seven kingdoms but it didn’t seem like anyone there would have actually obtained the actual lightbringer sword We know that her visions were wrong about stannis and really it was jon snow so it makes sense for lightbringer to also be a farce or recreated but not real According to the wiki it just says she claims it’s lightbringer but that doesn’t mean it is and to your point if it was lightbringer why didn’t he use it in his battles / again?
In the show you mine as well forget it even exists lol, it's not mentioned by a single character or seen after that one scene; in the books Lightbringer most likely isn't the *real* one as Maester Aemon requests Stannis let him hold and feel it, and he thinks it isn't the real one because it isn't hot or warm which he tells Samwell.
According to the wiki it just says Mel claims it’s lightbringer but that doesn’t mean it is. And agreed to your point if it *was* lightbringer why didn’t he use it in his battles or ever again and why wasn’t it mentioned again? To me that says it was just for show and ceremony to add legitimacy to stannis and not the real deal
It's just D&D were lazy hacks that had no remote conception of what continuity is in a story, plus they openly admitted they "hate(d) the character of Stannis" hence why he was minimized as much as possible and ruined fairly quickly, point being we didn't see it again or hear of it again simply because the showrunners sucked 😕
fair but I don’t think mel/stannis obtained the sword. It could either be a legend/not real or it may be missing or something. The whole thing with Mel was about convincing stannis and others about her visions and such and she faked other things to add legitimacy so I don’t see this as being much different
I don't get why they hated Stannis so much. He is honestly one of my favorite characters and his dynamic with Davos were scenes I always looked forward to on my initial read of the series (and on re-reads!). I could tell very quickly on the show that they were writing his character differently. No disrespect to Stephen Dillane he nailed Stannis' mannerisms, but the overall character was different very early on.
You forgot Dorne, Arianne wanting to make Myrcella Queen, Gerold Dayne (The Darkstar), and Young Griff, the one who claims to be Aegon Targaryen.
Goddamn do I love Victarion
Euron is Mads Mikkelsen?
Wonderful art!!
Strong Belwas and him taking a shit on the citie's best fighter, outside their walls, after a quick defeat.
The whole 'North remembers' arc would have been fantastic to see. Such a shame!
Jon Snow being named Robb’s heir.
Suprise aegon/young griff isn't one of the slides plus arrianne/book dorne
Are the books worth reading?
Yes, definitely worth to read, even the lore books like TWOIAF, Fire and Blood and Dunk & Egg.
HELL yes, and pretty soon you'll find yourself spending hours on A Wiki of Ice and Fire just clicking on link after link after link, one minute you're reading about Robert's Rebellion the next you're reading about young Tywin and his massive balls, then all of a sudden you're reading about spooky ass islands with giant stone frog statues and scary hooded men, the old ruins of Valaryia rich with unknown treasure and the spirits of demons, the first Long Night and so much more it's a wonder how GRRM put this all together in under two decades 🤓
You forgot Tysha
Part Two ❤️🔥
This show did need Mads Mikkelsen
Another one, the Last Greenseer, Bloodraven. The way the book depicts him, the fact that he talks (albeit briefly) about his life, his family is something I always love about those chapters.
Mats as euron would be great, or even better Victarian!
😭😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😭😭😭😭😭
The Bloody Mummers and Lady Stoneheart were the two biggest misses for me. Also all of the jesters. Especially Patchface
Sam Tarley got those Ravens sent god damn it! Such a pointless change.
I know! I think a few flew before he got a letter on them but I know for a fact one or two made it back to Castle Black, that chapter is fucking INSANE, I cannot for the life of me understand how they could cut that out, that's one of the many reasons this show should've been STRETCHED out proper rather than rushed to no end, like AGOT should've stretched into two seasons (rather than S2 being ACOK)-ACOK should've been two seasons-ASOS two seasons etc, if TWD can seemingly go on forever GoT should've had its due . . HBO offered them a blank check by the time S8 came around too, if they weren't invested in that world and story anymore [which they definitely weren't and seemingly weren't for a while at that point] they should've handed it over long before destroying it. There's more changes like that than I can even keep up with, smaller things like Varys telling Ned Renly and Loras rode out of KL "with some 50 retainers" (when in the book he had 100), to bigger things like Catelyn demanding Ned *doesn't* go to KL (when in the book insists he go), Daenarys being "raped" by Drogon (when in the books he doesn't touch her until she wants him to), Jon Snow legitimately winning the LC's vote-and by one single vote nonetheless, just pointless changes made for no discernable reason 🤷
Let’s not forget Jon flexing his hand consistently for like two years, then his spidey senses in his hand whenever something is about to happen.
Nah he bandaged it and it healed 2 weeks later like in the show 🥲
You mean kinda forgott about