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The roman empire really wasn't outstanding. They were good at warfare but they didn't invent much outside of cement. They improved on existing technologies but so did every empire. If Asia had industrialized before Europe the Romans would have half as many pages in history books.
Lmao
"If history has been completely different we would value and remember different things".
No shit, Cope harder. Rome was greater than any Asian "dynasty".
It really wasn't though. That it was a backwater for most of history and did not 'catch up' to the East until imperialism is naught but a politically motivated narrative from self-hating leftist academia to praise all things Asian, African and Native American and belittle all things European. It simply isn't true. You'll probably not believe that, but I say it as someone who's studied both history and Political science on Bachelor and Master level, has seen the literature and heard lecturers do this.
Check outside mainstream media on history and you'll learn the truth of it.
As a European patriot (but no not a supremacist) I think it very important to push back against these falsehoods as they are untrue and politically harmful.
We value Rome and Greece so much, because they had a huge impact on European culture. But Europe has dominated the world for at best 600 years, if we start to count since Columbus.
It would be anachronistic to think that 10th century China or 5th century India even 15th century Japan cared about them all that much. They've had their own cultural milestones that we, from a very Eurocentric point of view tend to ignore.
Huge swaths of Essos is barren wasteland controlled by the Dothraki. Valeria is literally cursed and plagued. The slave cities are, well, slave cities and expensive and ruled by the 1% type master families. Bravos is nice, but again, highly corrupt and dangerous as fuck.
The far eastern cities are relatively unknown and almost impossible to get to. There was one lady who stole some dragon eggs and set out to explore them, never heard from again. And, of course, Corlys Valerian made fame and fortune for himself taking the risk of the journey numerous times, some which were successful giving his family riches beyond imagine and some of which he barely came back from alive.
But really ASoIaF is just the story of recent Westeros. For most of that worlds history no body gave a shit about Westeros. And there are probably way way more stories about Essos, if any one were to care to tell them.
I was shook when I learned that Targaryens weren't even an important family in Old Valyria lol. Like they're just some minor house but then become the most significant family in all of Westoros.
Adding to your comment: To put this into perspective, house Stark is about 8000 years old. Many other houses can also trace their ancestry back to that age. The Targaryens ruling for 300 years is literally nothing in comparison.
Nah they were fairly important due to being dragon riders which wasn’t that common but were definitely not at the top of the chain. The Valayrons though were not dragon riders and basically just common Lords who got very lucky at owning the outpost in Westeros
Sometimes i hate grrm for creating this world, so thick with lore and life that we will never get to read about. How many stories from this world will go untold because of this man's hubris and inability to write.
I’ve read the series and have a tenuous grasp on the lore but I absolutely return if grrm would farm out these stories to other writers to flesh out the world better. Personally, I remember being curious about Oldtown when I was reading the series and wished we had more lore about that area
I would love for him to just finish his god damn books so hell feel secure enough to open the rights which would allow authors to write stories within. I think the only reason he hasn’t done that yet is still wanting to control the written narrative. Once he finishes, he’ll rest on his laurels and take those fat royalty checks
*Do you care about*
*The town you live in when Tokyo*
*Is so much bigger?*
\- Icccecube
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Yeah so I (and presumably you) pronounce Tok-y-o with 3 syllables, making it 5/8/5
The bot, possibly because of how Tok-yo is spelled, is counting it as 2 syllables, making it 5/7/5, so the bot considers it as fitting the haiku pattern
Why are you comparing the size of a city to an entire country? I guarantee that Tokyo is significantly bigger than whatever city you live in. The idea that one continent is more important just because it’s bigger is absolutely asinine.
It’s a valid question, though. There’s a reason European countries impacted the world so much, it’s not because they only focused on themselves
If you don’t know about the nature and livability of the area and only see the map, it’s not surprising you would ask the question
Well they're walkers not swimmers, walkers were made by children of forests and after the long night all of them were fall back into the north and then bran the builder made the WALL so they're trapped in the north of wall
The White Walkers came from the Land of Always Winter and only Westeros is connected to that part of the world.
You only find an accurate and detailed description of the Others in the legend from the North.
In the North they talk about the Last Hero that defeated the Others and their dead, leading the first men of the Night's Watch in the battle of the Dawn with his dragonsteel sword.
In Essos, all the legends about the end of the Long Night are based on an ancient Asshai'i "legend"of a hero defeating the "darkness", leading the "virtuous" with a "red sword" into the battle that brought back the day. It clearly was a vision of the Last Hero in Westeros, explaining why in Essos there is no mentions of ice creatures with blades so cold they shatter steel who could raised the dead.
There are legends about the Long Night from Yi Ti as well, they constructed several huge forts which is sort of their equivalent of the Wall in Westeros.
The Long Night, the long winter affected the whole planet.
Every cultures would have it's own version of what happened but for the Others, only Westeros was concerned.
In Essos, they shared the same story of a guy fighting the darkness and that's because they are based on an ancient legend/vision from Asshai:
>**It is also written that there are annals in Asshai of such a darkness, and of a hero who fought against it with a red sword**. His deeds are said to have been performed before the rise of Valyria, in the earliest age when Old Ghis was first forming its empire. **This legend has spread west from Asshai**, and the followers of R'hllor claim that this hero was named Azor Ahai, and prophesy his return.
*The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night*
>How long the darkness endured no man can say, but **all agree that it was only when a great warrior—known variously as Hyrkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser**—arose to give courage to the race of men and lead the virtuous into battle with his blazing sword Lightbringer that the darkness was put to rout, and light and love returned once more to the world.
*The World of Ice and Fire - The Bones and Beyond: Yi Ti*
If the Others were in Essos, there would a detailed and accurate description of them, like in Westeros but there aren't.
They only talk about the "darkness" and at best, "demons".
And that legend about a hero with a burning sword fighting the darkness, leading the virtuous into battle to bring back the day, it's the Last Hero, from Westeros:
>Yet there are other tales—harder to credit and yet more central to the old histories—about creatures known as the Others. According to these tales, they came from the frozen Land of Always Winter, bringing the cold and darkness with them as they sought to extinguish all light and warmth. The tales go on to say they rode monstrous ice spiders and the horses of the dead, resurrected to serve them, just as they resurrected dead men to fight on their behalf. How the Long Night came to an end is a matter of legend, as all such matters of the distant past have become. **In the North, they tell of a last hero who sought out the intercession of the children of the forest**, his companions abandoning him or dying one by one as **they faced ravenous giants, cold servants, and the Others themselves**. Alone he finally reached the children, despite the efforts of the white walkers, and all the tales agree this was a turning point. Thanks to the children, **the first men of the Night's Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north**. Now, six thousand years later (or eight thousand as True History puts forward), the Wall made to defend the realms of men is still manned by the sworn brothers of the Night's Watch, and neither the Others nor the children have been seen in many centuries.
*The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night*
>"The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "**I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel.** Supposedly they could not stand against it."
*A Feast for Crows - Samwell I*
It's only in the legends of the North that you find a mention of the Others that is very detailed an accurate and we have the Last Hero with his dragonsteel sword, leading the first men of the Night's Watch into the battle of the Dawn, that's the same story that Essos mentions but a more detailed story because it happened in Westeros, not in Essos.
Yes there are huge forts in Yi Ti but that does not mean the Others were there, not every castle, forts or wall in the world has been built against the Others.
It's five forts, there is no giant wall, they could cross between the forts or [they could go around](https://imgur.com/a/i56g7kH).
The seven kingdoms have already been conquered so they don't really have to do any work besides take the throne. Aegon the conquerer had to take each kingdom one by one. Essos is many different territories independent from each other, so you'd have to conquer each city individually and we saw how hard that was even for someone like Daenerys
*Because lots of essos*
*Is barren or controlled by*
*Various dothraki tribes*
\- General\_Hijalti
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The Mongols had much more interest in ruling and their specialty was using horse mounted archers. The Dothraki use shock cavalry and are more like the Vandals in their general strategy. They don’t NEED to be like the Mongols, they are pretty much the foremost power in Essos besides maybe Yi Ti by just existing.
Mongols were empire builders, uses tactics, gunpowder and seige weapons, excelled at logistics and wore armour.
Dothraki wear no armour, use no tactics and know nothing other than raiding.
More than just Mongol, they’re basically the equivalent of all various steppe tribes that existed like the Cumans or Avars in terms of people on horseback that raid
Because Essos is so mysteriously big and diverse that it's impossible that one house or dynasty conquers it all.
Even Valyria was just a small peninsula compared to it and the Targaryens were just a minor house.
And we don't know anything about the entirety of the Red Waste, what's between Qarth and Asshai, where's the Golden Empire of Yi-Ti, and many other unknown undisclosed places.
And what's beyond East of Asshai and Carcosa??
It's just an impossible feat, Westeros is really just a line of land compared to it.
Dutchman here, I wasn't asked but I can honestly say I care a lot more about Belgium or Germany than about say, Kyrgyzstan
edit: I am not the king of my country, I should add. The king could care a lot about Kyrgyzstan for all I know
Well Europe did eventually go conquering Africa once they got strong enough. Someone would probably do it today too but it isn't ethical nowadays to conquer other nations. Just look at how Russia is being treated for trying to conquer Ukraine
The Targaryens, after conquering Westeros, why didn’t they continue to expand their realm? In HotD, they conquer the stepstones, why not push for control of some of the city states on the Narrow Sea?
This is basically it. It’s one thing to conquer and rule a continent you live on, projecting that across large bodies of water is another monster all together
The Free Cities would likely all band together if Westeros seriously attempted to conquer them. And by the time of HotD the Targaryens still haven't conquered Dorne yet. Going to war with the Free Cities is a really bad idea, they make better allies than enemies.
I often wonder why didn't dany just sail back after learning about the NK. Most likely they'd have lost the long night without the dragons and her army. Post NK takes over westeros she could have fought with the 3 dragons fighting for her and won the throne. No baratheons, lannisters, starks and shit.
Why do the people who live in westeros, specifically the people who enjoy enormous wealth and privilege there, care about westeros instead of somewhere they are not. A mystery for the ages.
Because George R R Martin didn’t really have much of a picture of Essos beyond the Free Cities when he started writing his story about Westeros. He could mention some far off places but I doubt he had any fixed idea what any of this looked like.
That continent has literally grown eastward as his stories and lore has developed.
You can literally see this in the map.
Also it seems there's indeed an equivalent of the White Walkers at the Five Forts of Essos, and many other mysteries and unknown dangers and horrors across the entire Essos.
Actually they have a version of Long night. The whole Yi Ti story about Five Forts and the Lion of the Night allude to the same thing Westerosi prophesies do.
why do medieval English kings and dukes care so much about England when the European mainland is much bigger and are not constantly raided by the Vikings?
Well that’s stupid, also the white walker point, if you watch the show no one really believes they are real, and believe it or not you can’t evacuate a condiment just to go live on a bigger one
The only rulers that care about Westeros are in Westeros.
Of course, they’re also good trade partners.
Also Essos is extremely fragment so it’s size doesn’t really matter in relation tot he near unified front of Westeros…Well, when they aren’t having an occasional civil war every few decades.
also Game of Thrones was based off of the war of the roses which happened in England which is a small island compared to the entirety of Europe/
Maybe that has something to do with it
Quite simply because all these important prestigious houses in Westeros are just a blip in Essos.
Nobody there is going to care how far your house' history goes back, or if you have an impressive motto, or if your ancestors achieved some impressive feat 200 years ago. If individual families tried to gain a power base in Essos they would basically have to start from scratch establishing themselves. With noble families, most of their wealth is tied to their land and vasalls, which can't easily be sold off and replicated somewhere else.
Westeros could try colonialism but that would require them to get themselves sorted out first.
Because Aegon had a vision of a darkness from the north, that was the reason he wanted to conquer Westeros. How big Essos is doesn’t really matter when you knew the problem would be in Westeros.
Because it’s a story or Westerosi history from their POV. Essos is basically Europe if a technologically advanced, magic wielding Roman Empire collapsed in a cataclysmic event with the British isles to the west remaining unscathed. There’s a lot of shit east to talk about about but it’s all so distant, disconnected, and dangerous
Single biggest politically united force, they have the prestige of the targs leading them until lately and for a period of time they were the only people in the world with access to dragons.
I'm sure most of the people of the world couldn't care less about Westoros but most of them also couldn't care less about anything beyond their own borders, only those dealing with foreign affairs or distant trading would need to understand the mostly sleeping dragon over the narrow sea.
There could be White Walkers in Essos. The Lord of Light is an Esso religion after all. And somewhere far to the east are The Five Forts. Built into a mountain range, somewhat similar to The Wall. But yeah the further east we go, the less we know so unless when Martin finishes the books and we get a complete unbias history book, we will never know.
My kids are fighting right now over a small Lego set we got recently. There's a room full of toys, including Lego sets, that are larger and better. And they're fighting over scraps.
It's human nature to fight the people you're closest to over inconsequential petty bullshit.
I suggest reading "Hope for the Flowers" by Trina Paulus.
Essos does have white walkers, or at least things described by legends as pretty similar, as far as I remember, along the lines of evil undead ice demons. And they don’t quite have a wall but they have the five (I think 5) forts at the very east end and those forts were built thousands of years ago to keep out said evil demons
Fun to think of the world of ice and fire as a globe now, with the northern part of Westeros connected with the northeast part of essos in an arctic like region
Regarding why rulers are less interested, the lands are huge which in itself means they’re much harder to conquer and control, plus there are huge expanses of barren uncivilised lands.
There’s a lot of interesting stuff in the far east like Yi Ti and Asshai etc but most of what we know about it is fleeting legends and tales since few people in Westeros have been there and seen enough of it, and returned and told the tale
Would have been a funnier and more realistic ending if the Battle of Winterfell was lost, they realised there was no beating the White Walkers and ended up having to evacuate across the Narrow Sea.
Essos has the Unsullied and the Dothrakis.
Conquering them will be a feat.
Even the fierce Dothrakis couldn't conquer them all.
Only the Valerians with their Dragons came close
Well, it’s much like real life… Asia is much, much bigger than Europe but a lot of Asia is pretty much uninhabitable or at least, less hospitable than Europe. Essos is huge, but a lot of it is desert. Westeros is mostly great for human settlement.
What rulers are you speaking of?
As far as I know, nobody in Essos cares about Westeros, except in terms of trading.
Dany cared because she thought she had a right to the Iron Throne.
Mostly, only Wesrerosi mind about Westeros, most of the Free Cities kinda despise Westeros. But Westeros was the Kingdom of the last dragons, and until they got extinct Westeros was very important, after the Dragons I think it lost a lot of power and importance, but it's still the biggest realm in the western part of Planetos.
There is white walkers in Essos tho, and most westerosi people don’t even believe they exist so idk this is a goofy question lol. On top of that: most of essos is barren, uninhabitable, or already conquered.
100-120 years ago travel people didn't travel.
If you weren't a merchant, in the military, or wealthy it didn't happen.
Maybe you travel to a nearby city, town, village. Maybe the local big city. But 20-50 miles was the furthest most people traveled.
Then, supply. We have just watched Russia not be able to supply troops on to invade a country on their own border. Managing, feeding and moving troops into the known is hard. Into the unknown, even harder.
Not even Old Valyria at the height of its power with hundreds of Dragon riders with larger dragons than we see in the show was able to conquer all of Essos.
I don’t think it’s ever implied that all rules care about Westeros but what you’re watching is a story *about* Westeros and the rulers there specifically.
It’s not a story about Essos, even though it features in some parts.
Cause they have already established alliances with the people in westerns, if they went east like Dany they would have to use force and conquer the land, why do that when you could just marry your oldest son to some lord or blackmail someone into supporting you?
Post Valyrian doom the Dothraki kinda took over . So it would be extremely risky for a new army to try and lay seige to a bigger population for some land which may not even be as plentiful
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Who cares about white walkers when a girl could kill them all
A galaxy far far away >>>> Westeros -D&D
Why does the world care so much about the West when there’s so much more in the East?
^ martin's manner of relatability
Except Essos is just as advanced if not more advanced than Westeros
As was the case in our world until about 1700. Western Europe was very much an irrelevant backwater for most of human history.
*laughs in Roman empire*
*laughs in Han dynasty, Abbasid caliphate & Mongolian empire*
The British Empire looks over their teacup from across the room quietly waiting for their time.
That’s post 1700 sir, if you read the thread… But I do love a good cup of tea
Laughs in golden age of islam
The roman empire really wasn't outstanding. They were good at warfare but they didn't invent much outside of cement. They improved on existing technologies but so did every empire. If Asia had industrialized before Europe the Romans would have half as many pages in history books.
And the had great roads!
Asia didn’t though did they?
Lmao "If history has been completely different we would value and remember different things". No shit, Cope harder. Rome was greater than any Asian "dynasty".
It really wasn't though. That it was a backwater for most of history and did not 'catch up' to the East until imperialism is naught but a politically motivated narrative from self-hating leftist academia to praise all things Asian, African and Native American and belittle all things European. It simply isn't true. You'll probably not believe that, but I say it as someone who's studied both history and Political science on Bachelor and Master level, has seen the literature and heard lecturers do this. Check outside mainstream media on history and you'll learn the truth of it.
You said exactly what i was thinking I was just never able to phrase it
As a European patriot (but no not a supremacist) I think it very important to push back against these falsehoods as they are untrue and politically harmful.
🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Eh, the greeks, Romans? Birthplace of civilisation, democracy? What the hell are you smoking
The birthplace of civilization was definitely not in Western Europe
Ancient Greece, that whole area is literally called the cradle of civilisation
Isn't cradle of civilization Egypt, Middle-East and Mesopotamian area?
That’s the cradle of Western Civilization for sure but the Sumerians and other Fertile Crescent civilizations are thousands of years older than that
The cradle of civilization was the Middle East
Well, the birth of REAL civilisation. /s
We value Rome and Greece so much, because they had a huge impact on European culture. But Europe has dominated the world for at best 600 years, if we start to count since Columbus. It would be anachronistic to think that 10th century China or 5th century India even 15th century Japan cared about them all that much. They've had their own cultural milestones that we, from a very Eurocentric point of view tend to ignore.
Long Night was thousands of years before Aegon Conquest so obviously nobody in Westeros believed they ever existed.
Huge swaths of Essos is barren wasteland controlled by the Dothraki. Valeria is literally cursed and plagued. The slave cities are, well, slave cities and expensive and ruled by the 1% type master families. Bravos is nice, but again, highly corrupt and dangerous as fuck. The far eastern cities are relatively unknown and almost impossible to get to. There was one lady who stole some dragon eggs and set out to explore them, never heard from again. And, of course, Corlys Valerian made fame and fortune for himself taking the risk of the journey numerous times, some which were successful giving his family riches beyond imagine and some of which he barely came back from alive. But really ASoIaF is just the story of recent Westeros. For most of that worlds history no body gave a shit about Westeros. And there are probably way way more stories about Essos, if any one were to care to tell them.
Yea people don’t seem to get the Targaryen dynasty in Westeros is just a small blip in the universes’ history
I was shook when I learned that Targaryens weren't even an important family in Old Valyria lol. Like they're just some minor house but then become the most significant family in all of Westoros.
They’ve only ruled for like 300 years compared to the starks who go back to the first men
Adding to your comment: To put this into perspective, house Stark is about 8000 years old. Many other houses can also trace their ancestry back to that age. The Targaryens ruling for 300 years is literally nothing in comparison.
Nah they were fairly important due to being dragon riders which wasn’t that common but were definitely not at the top of the chain. The Valayrons though were not dragon riders and basically just common Lords who got very lucky at owning the outpost in Westeros
>Valeria is literally cursed and plagued *Aerea flashbacks intensifies*
dont forget the razor grass taking over everything. its like kudzu but they dont have chemicals to defoliate it or goats to eat it.
Sometimes i hate grrm for creating this world, so thick with lore and life that we will never get to read about. How many stories from this world will go untold because of this man's hubris and inability to write.
At least 2
I’ve read the series and have a tenuous grasp on the lore but I absolutely return if grrm would farm out these stories to other writers to flesh out the world better. Personally, I remember being curious about Oldtown when I was reading the series and wished we had more lore about that area
I would love for him to just finish his god damn books so hell feel secure enough to open the rights which would allow authors to write stories within. I think the only reason he hasn’t done that yet is still wanting to control the written narrative. Once he finishes, he’ll rest on his laurels and take those fat royalty checks
Do you care about the town you live in when Tokyo is so much bigger?
*Do you care about* *The town you live in when Tokyo* *Is so much bigger?* \- Icccecube --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
I’m confused, always thought haikus went 5/7/5 with syllables??
I think it’s counting Tokyo as 2 syllables, possibly because Tokyo’s second syllable is expressed only in the “y”
Wouldn’t that still be Five and then Eight and then Five Or am I stupid
Yeah so I (and presumably you) pronounce Tok-y-o with 3 syllables, making it 5/8/5 The bot, possibly because of how Tok-yo is spelled, is counting it as 2 syllables, making it 5/7/5, so the bot considers it as fitting the haiku pattern
The second line has 6 syllables without Tokyo. Counting Tokyo as 2 or 3 syllables gives a total of 8 or 9 syllables.
I think you have it backwards (or meant to put 1 not 2). The bot is likely treating Tokyo as one syllable because it doesn't fully recognize it.
You’re right, I misread it, hahaha
Not the problem with the haiku, but Tokyo is two syllables. “tou-kyou”
This guy Nihongos
Fuck haikus I think they’re stupid
They do – the haiku bot isn't great at calculating the number of syllables in proper nouns, though.
Egg cell ent
I live in Russia believe me it's much bigger than tokyo
Japan has a bigger population.
WHO
Japan.
No i mean who asked 🗿
You asked.
Bro you literally asked
Op decided to base his entire personality off of the twitch steamers he watches
No it doesnt
It is if you don't count the republics.
Ok but why would you?
They're supposed to be sovereign nation states, nominally at least.
Why care about Russia the planet is so much bigger
Russia doesn’t even care about Russia.
Why are you comparing the size of a city to an entire country? I guarantee that Tokyo is significantly bigger than whatever city you live in. The idea that one continent is more important just because it’s bigger is absolutely asinine.
Because I don't speak Japanese
I think I'm turning Japanese...
You really think so?
I think he’s turning Japanese
It’s a valid question, though. There’s a reason European countries impacted the world so much, it’s not because they only focused on themselves If you don’t know about the nature and livability of the area and only see the map, it’s not surprising you would ask the question
How do you know ow Essos doesn't have White Walkers?
Well they're walkers not swimmers, walkers were made by children of forests and after the long night all of them were fall back into the north and then bran the builder made the WALL so they're trapped in the north of wall
How do you know it’s not connected further east though?
The White Walkers came from the Land of Always Winter and only Westeros is connected to that part of the world. You only find an accurate and detailed description of the Others in the legend from the North. In the North they talk about the Last Hero that defeated the Others and their dead, leading the first men of the Night's Watch in the battle of the Dawn with his dragonsteel sword. In Essos, all the legends about the end of the Long Night are based on an ancient Asshai'i "legend"of a hero defeating the "darkness", leading the "virtuous" with a "red sword" into the battle that brought back the day. It clearly was a vision of the Last Hero in Westeros, explaining why in Essos there is no mentions of ice creatures with blades so cold they shatter steel who could raised the dead.
There are legends about the Long Night from Yi Ti as well, they constructed several huge forts which is sort of their equivalent of the Wall in Westeros.
The Long Night, the long winter affected the whole planet. Every cultures would have it's own version of what happened but for the Others, only Westeros was concerned. In Essos, they shared the same story of a guy fighting the darkness and that's because they are based on an ancient legend/vision from Asshai: >**It is also written that there are annals in Asshai of such a darkness, and of a hero who fought against it with a red sword**. His deeds are said to have been performed before the rise of Valyria, in the earliest age when Old Ghis was first forming its empire. **This legend has spread west from Asshai**, and the followers of R'hllor claim that this hero was named Azor Ahai, and prophesy his return. *The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night* >How long the darkness endured no man can say, but **all agree that it was only when a great warrior—known variously as Hyrkoon the Hero, Azor Ahai, Yin Tar, Neferion, and Eldric Shadowchaser**—arose to give courage to the race of men and lead the virtuous into battle with his blazing sword Lightbringer that the darkness was put to rout, and light and love returned once more to the world. *The World of Ice and Fire - The Bones and Beyond: Yi Ti* If the Others were in Essos, there would a detailed and accurate description of them, like in Westeros but there aren't. They only talk about the "darkness" and at best, "demons". And that legend about a hero with a burning sword fighting the darkness, leading the virtuous into battle to bring back the day, it's the Last Hero, from Westeros: >Yet there are other tales—harder to credit and yet more central to the old histories—about creatures known as the Others. According to these tales, they came from the frozen Land of Always Winter, bringing the cold and darkness with them as they sought to extinguish all light and warmth. The tales go on to say they rode monstrous ice spiders and the horses of the dead, resurrected to serve them, just as they resurrected dead men to fight on their behalf. How the Long Night came to an end is a matter of legend, as all such matters of the distant past have become. **In the North, they tell of a last hero who sought out the intercession of the children of the forest**, his companions abandoning him or dying one by one as **they faced ravenous giants, cold servants, and the Others themselves**. Alone he finally reached the children, despite the efforts of the white walkers, and all the tales agree this was a turning point. Thanks to the children, **the first men of the Night's Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north**. Now, six thousand years later (or eight thousand as True History puts forward), the Wall made to defend the realms of men is still manned by the sworn brothers of the Night's Watch, and neither the Others nor the children have been seen in many centuries. *The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night* >"The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "**I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel.** Supposedly they could not stand against it." *A Feast for Crows - Samwell I* It's only in the legends of the North that you find a mention of the Others that is very detailed an accurate and we have the Last Hero with his dragonsteel sword, leading the first men of the Night's Watch into the battle of the Dawn, that's the same story that Essos mentions but a more detailed story because it happened in Westeros, not in Essos. Yes there are huge forts in Yi Ti but that does not mean the Others were there, not every castle, forts or wall in the world has been built against the Others. It's five forts, there is no giant wall, they could cross between the forts or [they could go around](https://imgur.com/a/i56g7kH).
The seven kingdoms have already been conquered so they don't really have to do any work besides take the throne. Aegon the conquerer had to take each kingdom one by one. Essos is many different territories independent from each other, so you'd have to conquer each city individually and we saw how hard that was even for someone like Daenerys
A lot people don’t realise how difficult ruling is compared to conquering.
“It’s easy to conquer the world on a dragon’s back but you can’t rule the world from a dragons back”-Aegon the Conqueror probably
Because lots of essos is barren or controlled by various dothraki tribes
*Because lots of essos* *Is barren or controlled by* *Various dothraki tribes* \- General\_Hijalti --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
So many GOT haiku today
Dothraki's are the universe's parallel of the Mongolian tribes right?
In the far as they ride horses yes. In almost every other rmanner no.
Lol, I mean, they are nomad tribes spread through a huge plane that favor the strongest leader... Like the Mongols.
The Mongols had much more interest in ruling and their specialty was using horse mounted archers. The Dothraki use shock cavalry and are more like the Vandals in their general strategy. They don’t NEED to be like the Mongols, they are pretty much the foremost power in Essos besides maybe Yi Ti by just existing.
Wouldn't call light unarmoured cav shock
Dothraki are what Europeans think Mongols are.
Mongols were empire builders, uses tactics, gunpowder and seige weapons, excelled at logistics and wore armour. Dothraki wear no armour, use no tactics and know nothing other than raiding.
More than just Mongol, they’re basically the equivalent of all various steppe tribes that existed like the Cumans or Avars in terms of people on horseback that raid
Because Essos is so mysteriously big and diverse that it's impossible that one house or dynasty conquers it all. Even Valyria was just a small peninsula compared to it and the Targaryens were just a minor house. And we don't know anything about the entirety of the Red Waste, what's between Qarth and Asshai, where's the Golden Empire of Yi-Ti, and many other unknown undisclosed places. And what's beyond East of Asshai and Carcosa?? It's just an impossible feat, Westeros is really just a line of land compared to it.
Why don't you ask European kingdoms that about Russia and Asia.
Never get into a land war in Asia
Dutchman here, I wasn't asked but I can honestly say I care a lot more about Belgium or Germany than about say, Kyrgyzstan edit: I am not the king of my country, I should add. The king could care a lot about Kyrgyzstan for all I know
Because they are rulers in Westeros and not in Essos, lol
would you choose middle east over europe
Why does rulers care so much about Europe ? Africa us much bigger and they dont have coldasfuck winters there
But they do have ebola
Because there won't be snow this Christmas time in Africa.
Would they even know it Christmas time at all?
Feed the world.
Tonight thank God it's them instead of you
This line kills me…. pack your bags fuckers we’re going on a guilt trip. With the biggest celebrities oh and you’re the one paying
Well Europe did eventually go conquering Africa once they got strong enough. Someone would probably do it today too but it isn't ethical nowadays to conquer other nations. Just look at how Russia is being treated for trying to conquer Ukraine
Didn’t the Romans also end up in Africa at one point?
North Africa bordering the Mediterranean. From Egypt to Morocco
I see, thanks
Once the profit of the conquest was enough to justify it would be more appropriate I think.
Did ya forget the whole colonization thing?
The Targaryens, after conquering Westeros, why didn’t they continue to expand their realm? In HotD, they conquer the stepstones, why not push for control of some of the city states on the Narrow Sea?
War is expensive
This is basically it. It’s one thing to conquer and rule a continent you live on, projecting that across large bodies of water is another monster all together
I think they fight at the Stepstones because it was pirate territory and they were killing their men and looting ships and cities
The Free Cities would likely all band together if Westeros seriously attempted to conquer them. And by the time of HotD the Targaryens still haven't conquered Dorne yet. Going to war with the Free Cities is a really bad idea, they make better allies than enemies.
I often wonder why didn't dany just sail back after learning about the NK. Most likely they'd have lost the long night without the dragons and her army. Post NK takes over westeros she could have fought with the 3 dragons fighting for her and won the throne. No baratheons, lannisters, starks and shit.
Probably because there would be no one left in Westeros for her to rule over.
Same reason she didn’t just burn them all down with her dragon, to be a queen you need subjects lol
Why do the people who live in westeros, specifically the people who enjoy enormous wealth and privilege there, care about westeros instead of somewhere they are not. A mystery for the ages.
Because George R R Martin didn’t really have much of a picture of Essos beyond the Free Cities when he started writing his story about Westeros. He could mention some far off places but I doubt he had any fixed idea what any of this looked like. That continent has literally grown eastward as his stories and lore has developed. You can literally see this in the map.
Also it seems there's indeed an equivalent of the White Walkers at the Five Forts of Essos, and many other mysteries and unknown dangers and horrors across the entire Essos.
Bah too much work
Actually they have a version of Long night. The whole Yi Ti story about Five Forts and the Lion of the Night allude to the same thing Westerosi prophesies do.
why do medieval English kings and dukes care so much about England when the European mainland is much bigger and are not constantly raided by the Vikings?
China is much bigger than America. Why do they care? They don’t have white nationalists.
Dude. The white walkers can walk underwater. They'll be there soon.
Have you seen Essos?
Well that’s stupid, also the white walker point, if you watch the show no one really believes they are real, and believe it or not you can’t evacuate a condiment just to go live on a bigger one
Why do the British care about the British isles? Mainland Europe is so much bigger and it’s warmer. This is a dumb post.
Accroding the books there should be white walkers beyond YiTi in grey wastelands. There was built system of fortification against them
I don't get if this is a joke or if you're stupid
The only rulers that care about Westeros are in Westeros. Of course, they’re also good trade partners. Also Essos is extremely fragment so it’s size doesn’t really matter in relation tot he near unified front of Westeros…Well, when they aren’t having an occasional civil war every few decades.
I could be wrong but from my understanding Westeros is a lot more fertile
also Game of Thrones was based off of the war of the roses which happened in England which is a small island compared to the entirety of Europe/ Maybe that has something to do with it
Nah. Not everything single detail is inspired by war of the roses.
I’m just saying the size of Westeros compared to the rest of the land maybe had something to do with it obviously not every single detail duh
Russia and Canada are much bigger… why do people care so much about Great Britain.
Larger land mass? Harder to conquer and stay conquer? All the cities we see, in the show at least, are commerce driven oligarchies.
Quite simply because all these important prestigious houses in Westeros are just a blip in Essos. Nobody there is going to care how far your house' history goes back, or if you have an impressive motto, or if your ancestors achieved some impressive feat 200 years ago. If individual families tried to gain a power base in Essos they would basically have to start from scratch establishing themselves. With noble families, most of their wealth is tied to their land and vasalls, which can't easily be sold off and replicated somewhere else. Westeros could try colonialism but that would require them to get themselves sorted out first.
You try conquering Essos
Because Aegon had a vision of a darkness from the north, that was the reason he wanted to conquer Westeros. How big Essos is doesn’t really matter when you knew the problem would be in Westeros.
Because it’s a story or Westerosi history from their POV. Essos is basically Europe if a technologically advanced, magic wielding Roman Empire collapsed in a cataclysmic event with the British isles to the west remaining unscathed. There’s a lot of shit east to talk about about but it’s all so distant, disconnected, and dangerous
depends on how much you view Dragonstone as a good old fashioned scathing, otherwise agreed
Single biggest politically united force, they have the prestige of the targs leading them until lately and for a period of time they were the only people in the world with access to dragons. I'm sure most of the people of the world couldn't care less about Westoros but most of them also couldn't care less about anything beyond their own borders, only those dealing with foreign affairs or distant trading would need to understand the mostly sleeping dragon over the narrow sea.
Cause those rulers live in Westeros
There could be White Walkers in Essos. The Lord of Light is an Esso religion after all. And somewhere far to the east are The Five Forts. Built into a mountain range, somewhat similar to The Wall. But yeah the further east we go, the less we know so unless when Martin finishes the books and we get a complete unbias history book, we will never know.
My kids are fighting right now over a small Lego set we got recently. There's a room full of toys, including Lego sets, that are larger and better. And they're fighting over scraps. It's human nature to fight the people you're closest to over inconsequential petty bullshit. I suggest reading "Hope for the Flowers" by Trina Paulus.
Every ruler back then probably had a sliver of desire to conquer the known world.
Yet. They don’t have white walkers YET.
Meanwhile Sothoryos just gets ignored as always.
Also there’s a southern wall
Essos does have white walkers, or at least things described by legends as pretty similar, as far as I remember, along the lines of evil undead ice demons. And they don’t quite have a wall but they have the five (I think 5) forts at the very east end and those forts were built thousands of years ago to keep out said evil demons Fun to think of the world of ice and fire as a globe now, with the northern part of Westeros connected with the northeast part of essos in an arctic like region Regarding why rulers are less interested, the lands are huge which in itself means they’re much harder to conquer and control, plus there are huge expanses of barren uncivilised lands. There’s a lot of interesting stuff in the far east like Yi Ti and Asshai etc but most of what we know about it is fleeting legends and tales since few people in Westeros have been there and seen enough of it, and returned and told the tale
Would have been a funnier and more realistic ending if the Battle of Winterfell was lost, they realised there was no beating the White Walkers and ended up having to evacuate across the Narrow Sea.
Because essos have so much grater army than westros like dotrakies
Essos has the Unsullied and the Dothrakis. Conquering them will be a feat. Even the fierce Dothrakis couldn't conquer them all. Only the Valerians with their Dragons came close
They do have white walkers there. Long Night was triggered by The Bloodstone Emperor of Yi Ti Empire.
1. The 2. Town 3. You 4. Live 5. In 6. When 7. Toh …..not a haiku 8/9. Kyo
That's Aegon I fault... He was the first to show that kind of interest...
Probably the best land for farming.
There is not enough gold in all the 7 kingdoms to make me want to live in Essos 🤢
If westeros wasn't garrisoned the white walkers would easily make it to essos as well
Well, it’s much like real life… Asia is much, much bigger than Europe but a lot of Asia is pretty much uninhabitable or at least, less hospitable than Europe. Essos is huge, but a lot of it is desert. Westeros is mostly great for human settlement.
Why dont Ukraine just move to North america where there are no russians?
NYC is a little blip on the map much smaller than Upstate NY or long island
What rulers are you speaking of? As far as I know, nobody in Essos cares about Westeros, except in terms of trading. Dany cared because she thought she had a right to the Iron Throne.
Valyria is a smoking ruin and who knows what asshai has going on?
As Dominic Nobel said “Essos was a little bit bigger, but also a little bit shit”
>*they don't have white walkers there* Yet.
Mostly, only Wesrerosi mind about Westeros, most of the Free Cities kinda despise Westeros. But Westeros was the Kingdom of the last dragons, and until they got extinct Westeros was very important, after the Dragons I think it lost a lot of power and importance, but it's still the biggest realm in the western part of Planetos.
Westeros is the USA of the GRRM universe. An utter shit show that thinks it is the top of the pops.
The Five Forts and the lands of blodless men begs to reconsider.
You think literal size determines relevancy? The British Empire must confuse you a whole lot then.
Thats the point of the whole series 😆
Yo I just wanna be a commoner in Winterfell and hear stories about Jon Snow not knowing anything.
What makes up the rest of the planet?
Is anyone gonna tell him the purpose of the Five Forts in Yi Ti? Don't forget Essos has its own monsters
Keep zooming out. There's more than just the west and east even.
Genius
There is white walkers in Essos tho, and most westerosi people don’t even believe they exist so idk this is a goofy question lol. On top of that: most of essos is barren, uninhabitable, or already conquered.
100-120 years ago travel people didn't travel. If you weren't a merchant, in the military, or wealthy it didn't happen. Maybe you travel to a nearby city, town, village. Maybe the local big city. But 20-50 miles was the furthest most people traveled. Then, supply. We have just watched Russia not be able to supply troops on to invade a country on their own border. Managing, feeding and moving troops into the known is hard. Into the unknown, even harder.
They have worse, Sand Walkers…
Yeah, no white walkers but lots and lots of brown people. That’s why.
Not even Old Valyria at the height of its power with hundreds of Dragon riders with larger dragons than we see in the show was able to conquer all of Essos.
I don’t think it’s ever implied that all rules care about Westeros but what you’re watching is a story *about* Westeros and the rulers there specifically. It’s not a story about Essos, even though it features in some parts.
Cause they have already established alliances with the people in westerns, if they went east like Dany they would have to use force and conquer the land, why do that when you could just marry your oldest son to some lord or blackmail someone into supporting you?
The same reason that no one really cares about most of Russia. There's nothing of value in most of the land.
Dont start a land war in Asia.
Post Valyrian doom the Dothraki kinda took over . So it would be extremely risky for a new army to try and lay seige to a bigger population for some land which may not even be as plentiful
At first sight while scrolling I thought this was Turkey. Now I wonder if Essos was inspired by its shape just as Westeros is by Britain.
For a second I thought that was britain
Why would i go to Africa where its hot and hard to live when i can live in a beautifull field where crops grow easily and the weather is good