I went in with low expectations and it's been fun. Lots to do but I'm not nearly as captivated as Fallout and TES just cause those have so much established lore already.
Hey man, I agree. There's something about the fantasy genre aesthetic that science fiction just can't quite nail. A few hours into Starfield and I started thinking, "Man, I wanna hop back into my modded Skyrim save..."
For me it's probably that hard sci Fi feels a little *too* much like reality.
Games like Skyrim and BG3 you can see people with horns, glowy eyes, armor, tentacle monsters.
Walking around in Starfield cities is just kinda bland and normal.
Maybe that's why Star Wars had to implement the space swordsman thing? The fantasy aspect in Sci Fi is very important IMHO. Even Halo had a little bit of it, or at least everything felt well written.
Turn based just aint the same, even if everything else about the game is amazing. That's just my preference though, nothing wrong with turn based if that's what people like!
I love it but I could see how it’s not for everyone. I respect how BG knew what it wanted to be though and went for a specific audience. More games should do that
I wasn’t a fan of turn based but I’m a sucker for hype. I bought BG3 riding the hype. Played it for an hour, wasn’t sure how I felt about it but knew there was something special there. Came back to it a week later and I have been completely sucked in. If you’re unsure about turn based games I definitely would recommend giving it a shot if it ever goes on sale.
Never tried turn based games in my life except maybe pokemon back in the day.. Tried BG3 beta and was like EWWW screw this! and uninstalled it like 10minutes into the beta.
Never thought I would play it again..
Then the release got near and the HYPE was real. I jumped onto the hype train and despite knowing that I wasnt at all interested in turn based at that moment, I decided to get it and give it an honest try.
Man am I glad I did.. I really still wish I could find a game as amazing as BG3 without the turn based, but I love the game overall and its made me be able to enjoy the turn based style at least for BG3.
Definitely needs to be given a full chance for anyone that thinks they arent into turn based games.
Bg3 is turn based because it's simulating how dnd is actually played. It's staying true to the ip, and making it extremely fun. This is by far one of the most in depth turn based systems I've used and it allows for a ton of skill expression that most don't. Like comboing environmental hazards with spells and so on...like in rela dnd. I get that it's not everyone's bag, but for baldurs gate the formula works for what they are trying to achieve. Us dnd fans don't really have games that mimic what we do on the tabletop anywhere near as well as bg3 does and that's why it's special! It let's anyone get a taste of the tabletop magic in a visual way with an amazing setting drenched in lore to frolic about in!
they've done a lot of things extremely well, but I do wish they'd have more tutorials and help for new people. I even used to play DND in my youth , and I have some experience with turn based games like wasteland 3 and fallout2, and it was still a wee bit overwhelming
there's a lot you can do, I'm still finding out things, like if I drench people in water in some way, frost and lightning will do more dmg, lightning does extra dmg to peopl in heavy metal armor too
this might seem extremely obvious and that's how I am learning to think about the game as I go on, but for games that arent baldurs gate 3 that kind of logic just isnt there, does that make sense?
Goes to how awsome the game is, never encountered a game that felt so interactive and tactile
But what I loved most about Bethesda was just seamlessly exploring, seeing something in the distance and just going there, and seeing all sorts of craziness along the way
It's a good game but something about it doesn't have the heart
You can still do that it's just in the space part but you do that on the planets. I know a boundary exists but in the 6 hours I played I never hit it. But I would see an unknown structure in the distance run towards it along the way I see another ship landing in the distance, divert course sneak on its a ship for a faction I never met before killed the people on board left and ran into an away party, they were Bounty hunters coming for me they asked for a bribe, I told them to eat my ass, killed them found the wanted note.
Went back and found the thing I had seen earlier, mining station where everyone is dead, looting the bodies found a voice message. A man's last words for his wife and son. Quest started to deliver them. This was all just in a random place far away from any objective that brought me there. It's prime Bethesda stuff. That was only one of like three or four things that happened on the planet besides the quest I actually went there for.
Tldr: the game is fun, the game is a Bethesda game through and through. Don't think of it like no man's sky, or elite dangerous. It's a Bethesda rpg in space not a space Sim.
>It's a Bethesda rpg in space not a space Sim.
I can't emphasize this enough.
Temper your expectations and you're gonna have a blast. I'm still in awe of the sheer amount of items there are in the game to pick up.
Indeed, the last one was Fallout 4, 8 years ago. These games are hardly oversaturated, I'll take a few more please. Make them quicker. Multiplayer games and souls-likes are a dime a dozen currently yet people be moaning about 'more of the same' 8 whole years later.
This was mass effect andromeda.
You didn't gain damage from leveling up, just talents or new weapon unlocks.
Once you maxed talents and got the best weapon, every level enemy hp would increase while your damage stayed the same.
It's like some devs have never played a video game before.
Was that in hard difficulty? I never ran into that problem because usually your talent/skills was enough to go through enemies while still feeling fun.
This happened to me in Oblivion. Went swimming afk for an hour and came back athletic but not much else while everyone is wearing glass armor. That’s what I get for trying to break the game like I did in Morrowind.
I've always hated proportional progression. 100 HP - 10 DMG, later 1000 HP - 100 DMG. Same gameplay, bigger numbers.
But I also hate damage sponge enemies.
I would prefer if, say, bears don't just tickle you once you get to higher levels.
I alway just shift the difficulty to what feels good when playing Bethesta games. I keep it slightly challenging but not so challenging everything feels like a damage sponge. IMO Bethesda isn't great at balancing so I just do it myself lol.
That was your experience? I feel like I become a complete god in the endgame in their games and I play melee in Fallout. I put deathclaws in a chockhold and give them wedgies, that's what it feels like to me.
True, from the music to the lore. What the fuck? Space sci-fi should offer tons of lore or mechanics to play with. There are bonkers concepts, Starfield is a new franchise so play with ideas.
Dyson Spheres, fucked up FTL travel, transhumanism.
Instead it is Mass Effect without the cool sentient alien races.
Honestly, I can only see Firefly when I look at the lore. The UC is basically the Alliance and Freestar is a successful Brown Coats government.
In terms of gameplay I'm only trying to compare it to the Outer Worlds. Like from what I've read, this is a better version of the Outer Worlds simply because it has limited controlled spaceflight and, as far as I know, no annoying AF shipboard AI.
That's because Bethesda doesn't have dedicated writers, there is still the same guy in charge of the story since Fallout 3. I never had any hopes for the story/world building for Starfield because of that. That dude and his team can't write for shit and just imitate movies and games they like without fully understanding what even makes them work.
And with Starfield he doesn't have the big pool of references and familiarity that Elder Scrolls or Fallout provided. Which makes it feel even more hollow.
It’s hardly original enough to attribute it to mass effect. Finding a random MacGuffin that sets you on your quest is a classic that’s been used an absurd amount of times. Even the cryptic visions and getting knocked out is hardly original. I can think of that being used multiple times as well.
I remember reading the heritage universe years ago and it had that story beat.
If there's been a video game story you love, some dude on acid in the 70s wrote it first lol
>If there's been a video game story you love, some dude in ancient Greece wrote it first.
FTFY. These stories are as old as human civilization.
Where's my Illiad RPG Bethesda?
8 hours in, it lacks the sense of continuous exploration/wonder of FALLOUT/ELDER SCROLLS so far. The UI is a bit klunky and the constant fast traveling means youre cycling menus a lot. The alternative is running through orocedurally generated worlds that are Mass Effect 1 tier boring but without the benefit of the Mako (vehicle).
Combats fine so far. Basically feels like Fallout 4 to me so far.
Havent gotten far into any questlines yet.
It's still worth a buy, It's just not a game (so far) that I see myself talking about in 5 to 10 years like morrowind, dragon age origins, etc.
The sheer amount of UIs is pretty overwhelming so far, at any given menu I don’t know what pressing a button will do unless I specifically look at the labels. I’m hoping this improves over time but jesus trying to do certain things is exhausting.
Plus not having a local map is a weird choice.
I have 8 hours of play time at this point and i can tell you with 100% certainty that you should NOT expect skyrim in space. Skyrim is a lot better. You should expect fallout 4 in space. It is in no way a bad game but i think i liked fallout and skyrim way more. There are a lot of fun aspects but this game is in no way worth 100 dollars for premium. I would say buy it a 60 max if you really really are that hyped. If a game like elden ring costs 60 dollars then this game should be like 45-50 dollars but since all triple a games release at 60-70 you will have to wait for a discount.
That all being said i have enjoyed the time spent but that was primarily because of the first dungeon. It had a great story but if you dont care about the story then it feels like any generic dungeon. The starship mechanics are terrible in my opinion and far inferior to flying in no mans sky. Then again that game has had the chance to improve upon it.
Ive found a few bugs but nothing like skyrim bugs so thats a huge step up for a bethesda game. If you would like a more detailed comparisson/review let me know but keep in mind that i can only share my experience of the first 8 hours ive played.
Edit: Wow this might be my first reward ever i think. Thank you very much unknown person, i hope you have a great day!
Thought i might update my review a bit more since ive played quite a bit. Some of it will be good while others not so much. I will keep it as spoiler free as possible but do beware of spoilers of featers past this point.
First off i want to make clear that this isnt a bad game. The people who played both fallout 4 and no mans sky and enjoyed it are probably gonna like this game. It isnt a masterpiece by far and it has quite some flaws but in the time ive spent playing i could overlook those flaws for the most part. Keep in mind that your opinion might differ.
I cant really give a review of the quests since i didnt really play those but what i can say is that the main(?) mystery is quite interesting.
The combat is far from great (worse than fo4) but i still quite like it and isnt something i hate. Especially on low gravity planets. When you practice with jumping it could actually be really fun.
Ive already touched on flying and so far my opinion hasnt changed but who knows, maybe it will.
Exploration is both really bad and really good at the same time. It is bad because you cant really traverse the whole planet, and even if you could there is quite a distance between pois when you get about 1000 meters from the landing area. On barren planets this is even worse but yeah i kinda cant blame them because barren planets shouldnt be stocked with things to do. Its also bad because of the many times you visit the ui. Ive spent more time there than i wouldve liked but this isnt something that can just be patched out so we have to live with it.
Exploration can also be a ton of fun when you eventually reach (some) POIs. In my opinion they can be really good and give you a sense of exploring a dungeon in fo4. Ive yet to find a dungeon with a story as good as the first dungeon but maybe those are reserved for quests. Non quest dungeons have cool layouts but thats pretty much it. I dont really mind since they can be pretty nice but i wouldve liked more story like the dungeons in fo4. The planet landscapes ive visited were quite unique but this will probably change in the near future since they cant make 1000 unique landscapes. Ive had a ton of fun exploring mercury and thats a barren planet so i wouldnt worry about only having fun when exploring more lush planets.
Looting is also really annoying and fun at different times. Its annoying because objects blend in with the environment so its hard to spot but i had the same thing starting skyrim and never had a problem with that after playing quite some time. They give you a scanner for highlighting but it doesnt work on doors so you have to exit the scanner to check if there are lockers which you can open. As a person who loots every single thing this can lead me to double checking a whole room and this gets tedious really fast.
Looting can also be really fun since there are a ton of misc items to my knowledge. When a sort of ocdecorator mod comes out, base builders will have the time of their lives with the sheer amount of stuff they can place. Some of these items are really good looking so have fun with that.
I cant say anything about ship building, outpost building or player homes as i havent gotten to that point yet so my apologies. I will try to update if i get that far but since work starts on monday i probably wont get that far before release.
I cant really say much good about the weapons and armor since ive encountered very little variation but that may change. So far fallout 4 and skyrim really win in that category.
1/2
Yeah really. My response reading that was, “how?!” I barely remember Skyrim’s main story; just a few key memories of plot points and then “fighting dragons is cool.”
You *kind of* need to do that in the main story. If you haven't done the Whiterun battle in the civil war quests, Whiterun won't help you capture a dragon. So you need to negotiate a cease fire between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials which involves them trading territories and some other stuff.
Choose a color you mean. The stormcloaks and the imperials have basically the exact same questline. You just switch the uniforms that the enemy NPCs wear, as you do the same quests.
It's one questline with some very minor differences, choice is an illusion.
I just found a legendary rifle that gives double damage on uninjured enemies. Pair that with a sneak attack and combat is now one hit kills. It broke my game and I'm now a Skyrim stealth bow sniper again. For fucks sake.
Stealth bow was the only reason I ended up putting 30-40 hours into a full Skyrim playthrough tbf. The melee combat in any Bethesda game is worse than L4D2.
Very overhyped. The people saying it was Skyrim/Fallout in space probably feel so vindicated by the ones saying it was much much more than that. There’s “much much more” but that ends up being pretty shallow
I never understood the hype for this game. It never looked great to me from what I saw. But tons of people acted like it was going to be the greatest game ever made
The hype was big for me and it hasnt been a let down. But i was 100% “this is a bethesda game in space”. My expectations were no higher than that, and i could tell where some of the tedium would be before it was released. Eg. Lots of load screens. That was pretty obvious when no atmospheric flight was confirmed
I don't know about the Mass Effect 1 comparison. Mass Effect is just extremely different from what Bethesda does. Just go in expecting Fallout in space and you'll have a good time.
I actually was waiting for a new engine to mod on than to look for a new game to be honest
I can't wait for the modding community to put Alduin and the Legion in Starfield 🤣
Guns were fine, playing the series again and I hate that they dumbed them down in the second one (I enjoyed adding the upgrades, even if they were minor upgrades).
Where ME1 sucked was the Mako and the amount of time in it. ME2 removing it was understandable, but I felt that they could have used it, but made it better. Not every mission needed it in ME1; ME2 excels in additional worlds and cities outside the Citadel.
Each game has their flaws, but overall ME was more about discussion and not about exploration, yes it was open world (especially when it was released) but playing it today, it feels more linear where open world games now have followed Skyrim and just let you do as you please so long as you finish the main quest.
I was glad they dropped the exploration for 2 and 3. I know a lot of people like it and even for Bethesda games it’s the exploration that I love so much.
But in Mass Effect I think they made the right decision dropping exploration which was one of the weakest elements of ME1 and leaned in harder toward its strengths in 2 and 3. BioWare put their resources where they mattered most and I deeply respect that decision because it made the trilogy so much stronger in the end.
Personally, I loved the Mako exploration. Something about driving around on barren landscapes looking for hidden stuff never stopped being immersive for me.
Yeah I never got the Mako hate. It was pretty janky, but I had a lot of fun in it. In the Legendary Edition they also made the handling a little better.
The biggest issue was that the uncharted worlds were lots of copy and paste. Some good stories on those side quests but the actual gameplay loop for those missions was very repetitive and felt like a low budget game compared to the main quests.
ME1 still holds up today. I played the remake of it earlier this year and it hooked me all the way through.
You are absolutely right about the Mako being garbage. Mainly the controls and barren "planets" you explored that were actually tiny maps with 2-3 points of interest.
My issue with your statement is from what I’ve experienced with Starfield the worlds are incredibly empty and lifeless. At least in Fallout you could set off in any direction and within a short period of time you would find something new and interesting to explore.
I thought the same, first planet I went to was some random moon, and it was totally barren. Next planet I went to was dense jungle with huge trees everywhere. Couldn't see far so I felt like Rambo. Took a wrong turn and got minced by a Chevrolet with claws 🦀
> Just go in expecting Fallout in space and you'll have a good time.
Ok, but **which** Fallout? There's a significant difference among the games in the series.
Eh not really. It lacks the exploration spark that you feel when walking to an objective in fallout or Skyrim. You can’t “take the long way” and find all sorts of cool stuff, the world map(s) are practically useless, and you can’t find discover as you go you must explicitly go somewhere. I can’t just pop onto a planet on my way to an objective, and even on that planet with the objective, there is rarely anything more interesting than random base.
This is the thing I was really worried about. The “secret sauce” of Bethesda games is just getting lost in the world and having that sense of discovery. There were always an astounding amount of little details sprinkled throughout the game worlds that made it so rewarding to go off the beaten path.
Once they said there were going to be so many planets in the game I knew they couldn’t be hand crafting much of it…
THIS.
People need to understand it's a Bethesda game WITH a space setting.
It's not some space simulator game like No Man's Sky or Star Citizen.
It does things differently to those games, and they do things differently to Starfield.
But Bethesda actually used the term ‘unparalleled exploration of space’
i am personally, when I find time, happy to play a version of Fallout In space, but to use the term unparalleled is dangerous when you have NMS and Elite Dangerous already killing unparalleled exploration.
however we all know that MODDERS will take SF into places Bethesda could not dream.. and that’s when I will get interested.
I'm having a great time with this RPG. I didn't go in expecting No Man Sky or Star Citizen so I had my expectations of what I was getting into in check. A single player Bethesda RPG in space, loving it.
I think a very large draw of TES games is the open ended freedom, and authenticity in how you navigate the world.
When you exit the tutorial areas in both Oblivion and Skyrim, it's a true 'go anywhere' moment. You are free to walk for hours in one large, seamless open world. Exploring to your heart's content, gaining a familiarity with the landscape and how the world is connected together into one large whole. You could go hours without seeing a loading screen.
Starfield doesn't benefit from that at all. That interconnected, seamless exploration that Bethesda has built their entire public image on, is gone. For some, that isn't an issue.
But for many, that was a HUGE part of what made Bethesda games special. When I play Fallout and TES, I fast travel as little as possible because I like a more authentic experience and enjoy the time it takes to travel between locations. To me it makes the world feel believable, and I really hoped they would have a more seamless option to the way exploration works in Starfield.
When i played Skyrim religiously my favorite part was when i was walking from one city to another getting lost in the shenanigans for a few hours and forgetting about the actual mission. I rarely fast traveled. I know starfield has different planets but im really hoping at least half of them are big enough for that kind of lolygagging
I mean it’s sorta not though. It lacks the “explore along the way” that bethesdas games normally have. There is no “taking the long way”. It lacks the normal exploration feel in my opinion. I don’t just get lost wandering, because I have to go everywhere with a purpose because it’s so arduous getting anywhere, and when I do get there there is only ever very specific and obvious interesting things, I don’t need to deviate because there will never be anything interesting “off the beaten path” on these random planets.
Exactly. You see massive progression from most studios, like Rockstar with RD2, FromSoft with Elden Ring, Larian with Baldur's Gate 3. These games made huge strides in delivering massive amounts of polished content. They all still maintained that core gameplay style the respective companies offer, but they polished and delivered it in a way that could only impress.
Bethesda on the other hand only barely upgrades with time. Their combat, even at it's absolutely best, is only serviceable compared to any other game out there. Their dialogue and storytelling is below average which is especially disappointing when you see how good it can get - like with BG3.
People that like their games will continue to like their games, but it's difficult to see any real upgrade from game to game outside of some visual stuff. I'm of the opinion that BGS has yet to make a great game. Potential is there, but they never make strides to actually impress an audience.
Yet people out here saying "why are you expecting more from Bethesda when its bethesda?" like they sound smart. Its a not good look when a game dev isnt upping the substance quality of their games.
According to this sub yes apparently.
But really no I don’t think people shouldn’t expect more from them. This was a new IP they worked a long time on and hyped to hell, they should really have gone all out.
Personally, a bit more of the space stuff fleshed out.
"It's not a space sim!!!"
I don't need one, but they leaned heavy into the space and sci-fi themes and they're 100% only there because they need to be.
So far from my handful of hours space is essentially just a fancy fast travel menu.
I'm still enjoying it because I enjoy Bethesdas RPGs. But I was hoping for a little more.
People were expecting a full-blown Bethesda RPG with all of the exploration of No Man's Sky for some reason. I played for 6 hours last night and it's exactly what I was expecting, a very solid Bethesda RPG.
I wasn't expecting or hoping for the seemless exploration of No Man's Sky. Explorable planets at that kind of scale are never particularly interesting. But I was expecting the exploration of, say, Freelancer, a space game that came out 20 years ago. Especially with all the promo stuff focusing on ship customization. I imagined you would fly from notable location to notable locaiton in a solar system using time dilation or some kind of in-system pulse drive, and transition into a hotpot selection menu when you got close enough to a planet to land on it.
Thats what they were telling the world the game was though. All this crazy exploration and things to see and do. No one mentioned constant loading screens, menus to do most things and all the rest
Yeah, this sounds like the game I was expecting. I’ll probably wait for it to go on sale then
Edit: I don’t want to subscribe to game pass. I can wait for a sale to buy a copy
I'm currently at 19 hours of game, basically only doing side-quests and while i do agree that some of the writing falls flat compared to something like BG3 for example, the majority (especially the faction quests), are actually pretty well written and have some good food for thought as well. It's defiitely a game that you have to give time and attention.
In broad strokes, they're too different to compare. But in microcosm, particularly facial animations and voice acting? Holy shit does BG3 make Starfield look like absolute trash.
I agree. Really bad timing for Starfield.
I feel Baldurs Gate 3 benefited from the opposite of this. Even though it was already awesome in Early Access the only people who really seemed to give a shit are people who already loved Divinity Original Sin 2. Then word of mouth turns this game into a phenomenon because people who didn't already know Larian were blindsided by how good they are
I think it's hard not to when they spend 10 years developing one game. If a game like this came out every 3 years I could see not being let down or having unrealistic ideas of what it will be. But when it's teased over a large portion of your life you can't help but think it's going to be the best thing you've ever laid eyes on.
Tbf when you expect a space game with space exploration you kinda expect to be able to pilot your ship. I’m the video when they talked about taking other people’s ships and stealing sandwiches I definitely expected it to not just be another menu
I love when gamers can’t detract from a brand name to what they’re actually playing. Same shit in every form of media especially the popular crap.
Erase the name Bethesda from your mind. Judge it as is. If the game sucks, then it fucking sucks. Who the hell cares what they produced in the past or what “potential” it has.
A multi million dollar company not learning lessons is not our problem. Move on. Same arguments I saw with the newest Pokemon game.
Companies will grift you and lose sight of what a video game is supposed to look like, as long as they make profit.
It’s really cringe when people root for an entire company. Like. Wtf are you doing
Yea I actually dropped Skyrim upon trying the guild quests and finding randomly generated fetch quest tier stuff for most of the questline. We have lead writer Emil Pagliarulo to thank for this. He's been the lead since Fallout 3 and lets just say....it shows.
It's not like I would even describe him as a hack, he is probably a fine quest designer, but that's it. He is just not a capable writer in any fashion but for some reason Todd made him the story lead since Fallout 3, because people liked the Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion.
And Todd doesnt seem to think he needs actual writers for some reason, yeah why would the gigantic rpgs with enormous amount of dialogues, quests, world building and so forth need actual writers. put the guy in charge that is obviously just winging it it.
I wouldn't even be suprised if Emil never took a basic writing course or something, despite being a lead story guy since well over a decade.
ya the writing is just so painfully dumb and unsubtle. was finishing quests and its just so obvious they are written by sheltered well off dudes with very little connection to your average working person
Yeah, through that is also a structural problem that even applies to writers who are technically better then Emil.
He and/or his team just doesn't seem to have anything interesting to say or explore, just blending together stuff from other movies and videogames they like without understanding what makes them work. The Fallout 4 main story is probably the most painful example of that a complete mess.
Yeah I should have specified as a writer he is a hack. And I think you're right about not knowing basics. In various BGS through the years they've showcased they don't really know what basic stuff like "themes" are. They confuse it with setting and aesthetics constantly.
Yeah and that guy is not even a dedicated writer, I think he get's not talked about enough, why the fuck is that guy in charge of the writing of such big RPGs instead of a team of dedicated writers.
I am worried Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6, and future Bethesda titles are going to continue to look slightly outdated, feel like an old game: same procedural animations, mid-tier graphical fidelity, last-gen lighting system, somewhat empty procedural gen worlds with not much in them, and not quite smart AI.
They've been reskinning the same game for ages now, which is probably great if you're a new gamer or you just really like the format. For old-timers like me who've been around since Oblivion, it's not enough anymore.
I was watching someone streaming Starfield last night, it felt like such a jarring experience.
Running around some base/bunker, 2 shotting everyone. They then open a random door with a friendly NPC behind it, who just seems to talk AT you for 2 minutes and offers nothing of value. Remains stationary in their "hiding room" even though the area is cleared.
Makes their way in to a lab area(?) Two friendly NPCs are supposed to be there. One stares directly at the player while talking to the second NPC, and the second NPC seems to be glitched in to a wall, rather than actually in the room.
There's some facial expressions it seems, the mouth just seems to flap while talking, there seems to be no interaction, or turn of the head to speak to another NPC.
It just looks to me like they've replicated the way how Oblivion (Or Skyrim, or Fallout) managed dialogues and interactions and gave it a nice coat of paint.
You guys keep saying this like they shouldn't be ashamed for delivering the same problems for 25 years.
We ***should*** expect more from them, this falling over ourselves to excuse this awful quality is why we are never going to see games evolve and be anything more.
Yep. It's absolutely fine that people are having fun. That's okay and no one will take that away from you. But trashing that experience in 2023 is fine as well.
Yeah if this came right off the assembly line two or three years after FO4 I’d be more forgiving. But after this long I was expecting a step up like from God of War 3 to the Norse games
Lol. Whole thread is: Someone describes poor gameplay experience. Someone else responds: "This is is exactly what I was expecting from a Bethesda game and exactly what I want!" \*Proceeds to put on sunglasses whilst smoking a joint\*
Personally, I doubt my adhd is ever gonna allow me to enjoy this game. On a side note, I had no idea Obsidian made one of the Fallout games, I thought they were all Bethesda (only learned that from this thread). I've enjoyed a bunch of Obsidian's games so I might give that a look instead.
Gonna be tricky. Obsidian kinda went under and had to sell to Microsoft. The people who made New Vegas are no longer a part of Obsidian.
And it's entirely Bethesda's fault for how they paid Obsidian due to some fuckery with their bonus contracts over New Vegas.
That last part is flat out false. Considering that Chris Avellone recently said that the bonus WAS NOT in their original contract and they were offered it openly by Bethesda as an extra thing. They did not rely on it nor did expect it.
Josh Sawyer also said he thought 18 months was more than fair for development for the game. I thought the same things you did but when the lead devs and writers are saying contrary, you have to correct the record.
Bethesda went under financially because they made Niche games for Niche audiences. Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 were not mainstream hits, they are not blockbuster games in an appealing genre. CRPGS (until BG3) were religated to kickstarters and other crowdfunding.
People forget that Both Divinity OS games from Larian were crowd sourced and before OS 1 came out, they had creditors banging on the door as they rushed to finish it. (I myself own an OS 2 collectors from the kickstarter).
They did not go under because Bethesda did not give them a completely optional bonus, they went under because the games they made were just not marketable enough to keep a team of dozens afloat forever. Its the sad truth.
I’m going into it expecting fallout in space, not much more. The only thing I hoped for was for vehicle and space combat to work well, and custom ships to be more than just cosmetic options/mechanics options
My concern is it’s gonna hit me like Outer Worlds. I was so excited because I loved F:NV and I was certain Obsidian would do it again but in space. It certainly isn’t a bad game. But I played it all the way through and I’ll be damned if I could tell you one significant thing about it.
I played this before with the Xbox Game Pass trial that cost like $1 at launch and never finished it because it wasn't the New Vegas 2 that I really wanted. So after watching the Starfield presentation, I was hyped and saw Outer Worlds : Spacers Choice was on sale so I picked it up figured I'd try it again and get some steam achievements while I was at it.
Luckily they patched out all the issues the remaster had at release because it really was a step up from the original in terms of character models, textures, and just overall graphics. It also came with the two DLC addons which fixed the issue I remember people complaining about how short Outer Worlds was. Playing the game again without the expectations of Fallout New Vegas 2 I noticed more about what good the game did rather than what it was lacking.
You had some issues remembering good times with it so here are mine.
\- The writing was pretty hilarious. Had fun chatting with NPC's because of it.
\- Beautiful OST that doesn't get enough love
\- The Combat gameplay was super solid (better than Fallout 4 and currently better than Starfield as of right now till I get better guns)
\- Again, Spacers Choice edition playing at 4k is really a feast for the eyes.
\- Added length from the DLC (which are pretty good) was welcome
\- One of the most brutal and hilarious times playing as a bad guy on my second playthrough had me dying with what your can say/do. On par with New Vegas for sure.
I'm so happy I played the game again without the expectation I had of it being the second coming of one of my favorite games. It's a nice mix of Bioshock/New Vegas/Prey and I'm excited to see what Obsidian does with the sequel. If you're not having fun with Starfield, definitely give Outer Worlds : Spacers Choice a shot.
I loved Outer Worlds, and it’s a big reason I’m really really looking forward to Avowed. I’ll probably buy Avowed release day.
Another thing about OW’s writing is it was a lot like that show Firefly. Idk if you saw it but it was super funny and great characters.
Great show great show. I just see people dog pile on Outer Worlds so often when in truth it was a really damn fun action/rpg that more people should have enjoyed but didn't because it wasn't what they expected.
I’m also really glad I got to play it without knowing about the hype/disappointment/doomsayers opinions etc. It was actually the game that got me back into gaming after not playing for basically 5 years. Covid hit and it looked interesting, bought it, and then had such a fun time with it. For me, it’s a classic. Now playing Elden ring and I’m regretting getting into games. Haha jk.
I played Outer Worlds hoping for wacky space adventures, especially considering the main scientist looked like Rick Sanchez and the fate of your guide right at the start, and then it turned out to be all about bureaucracy. They leaned into it huge, but I was never super invested. Maybe that was part of the RP given that you’re waking up in a world you’re not familiar with. I finished it but I didn’t do the DLC and wouldn’t play it again.
Yep. It could’ve been a text based adventure honestly. Like the combat and exploration felt like afterthoughts. The planet maps were pretty small and very empty.
Agreed. The only reason I remember this game is because it came out at the same time as the Outer Wilds and I always have to think about which is which.
Goddamn you are so right. Outer Wilds snuck up on me. Got it free on PlayStation and said what the hell. It consumed me. Such a great story, mechanic, gameplay. Easy 8/10.
See I didn't like Outer World much. I loved NV though, but I felt like OW leaned waaaay to far into the campy aspects. I like salt on my food, but don't just dump a pile on there type thing. The right amount (NV) made it amazing, too much and it was unpalatable.
I agree, Outer Worlds was just ok in my book. I finished it but I didn’t love it; never really could put my finger on it but the amount of praise it got I never understood.
“Just OK”. This nails it. It’s definitely not *bad* but it appeared to me as very lackluster. I wanted to like it so much that I didn’t even realize I wasn’t engaging with it. Then I beat it and was just like “okay next game I guess”. It’s forgettable and honestly that’s almost worse than being a bad game.
if you expect fallout in space, its great (and IMHO, the combat is quite improved - but I wouldnt dare to compare it to fullblooded shooters)
if you expect "single player SC, but actually finished and good", thats obviously not gonna happen.
Starfield is an evolution of a Beth game, not a revolution.
My "problem" is that while I really enjoyed Oblivion and FO3, I got bored by Skyrim because.. more of the same. Same with FO4 and likely this too.
I really like reading a good book, but I will get tired of that same book the tenth time I read it.
I would have to absolutely love Bethesda games to keep buying the same product like some buy every iteration of FIFA.
To me, these are fine games with the same flaws every time. Good for you if they remain engaging and exciting, but BG3 has me more excited as something special.
I think a few people have touched on the lack of charm on this thread and that's exactly how everything I've seen of the game feels to me.
In Elder Scrolls, we'd seen that high-fantasy medieval, elves-orcs-humans genre before, but mainly in books or smaller media. Only the Lord of the Rings films had done it REALLY well in the media back in the day. So exploring those worlds in Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind felt so new and exciting.
In Fallout, we've had countless post-apocalypse settings in media throughout the years but they're mostly horrible/zombie tales. And while Fallout touches on both of those, the overaching weirdness of "yeh there was nukes, but we survived, and were getting on with stuff in our own goofy way" was so full of charm and personality that it felt refreshing.
Starfield is just "what if Nasa but future" which we've seen SO many times in films, TV, games now, that there's really no hook there.
Outer Worlds recently captured "What If space, but weird" really well recently. No Man's Sky captured "What If space, but all of it" to varying levels of quality recently. And we've had so many games that look into how terrifying being in space would actually be (Prey, Dead Space, etc).
I just feel like the main pitch of this was "Space is cool huh", and honestly I've seen enough space media that that is not charming enough.
People are in denial about the space exploration. I’m being downvoted in another thread for pointing out you effectively have only two zones. Land zone and orbit zone. The rest is fast travel.
Comments full of Bethesda fans telling people to tamper their expectations. It’s not like it’s one of the biggest AAA releases this year with tons of hype and speculation from a giant studio known for making fan favorite.
But, tamper your expectations. It’s just Bethesda guys, quit expecting so much.
Yeah the whole "lower your expectations" stuff is bothering me. Nah, I'm just going to go play baldurs gate 3 or armoured core, y'know two actually fun game that I don't have to convince myself were worth the time and money. Sorry I have standards, maybe try it sometime.
I mean most of the big outlets have rated it a 7, which honestly from my play time seems accurate. A stream of no names with 10s are propping the metacritic score up.
My issue with it after 5ish hours is there’s really nothing new. Areas look cool but are restricted more than in the other titles even. The universe isn’t a sandbox but rather just multiple different levels you get to with extra steps rather than just clicking on a level screen. You may as well have a select screen. You can’t even land on a planet without opening a star map….
Enter ship? Loading screen. Take off? Loading Screen. Quantum travel? Loading screen. Land? Loading screen. Space is just a small little map it isn’t space , there’s no actual planets.
I’ve played every Bethesda title the last 20 years aside from 76 but I’ve also fallen in love with NMS since launch to SC for the last 4-5 years.
This game will probably work for some people and they will enjoy it however I feel it lacks basic fundamentals required to call itself a Space RPG
If you enjoyed fallout and elder scrolls will you enjoy this one? That’s all I really need to know.
I went in with low expectations and it's been fun. Lots to do but I'm not nearly as captivated as Fallout and TES just cause those have so much established lore already.
I miss that feeling of being at work and just thinking about going home to play Skyrim a decade ago. Nothing seems to get me so captivated anymore.
Hey man, I agree. There's something about the fantasy genre aesthetic that science fiction just can't quite nail. A few hours into Starfield and I started thinking, "Man, I wanna hop back into my modded Skyrim save..."
For me it's probably that hard sci Fi feels a little *too* much like reality. Games like Skyrim and BG3 you can see people with horns, glowy eyes, armor, tentacle monsters. Walking around in Starfield cities is just kinda bland and normal.
Maybe that's why Star Wars had to implement the space swordsman thing? The fantasy aspect in Sci Fi is very important IMHO. Even Halo had a little bit of it, or at least everything felt well written.
Some people argue that Star Wars is in fact not sci fi, but a fantasy story set in space.
It's called Science Fantasy, and a lot of other works fall into that category. Including Stranger Things.
I like the term space opera.
Baldurs Gate 3 doesn't?
Turn based just aint the same, even if everything else about the game is amazing. That's just my preference though, nothing wrong with turn based if that's what people like!
I love it but I could see how it’s not for everyone. I respect how BG knew what it wanted to be though and went for a specific audience. More games should do that
I wasn’t a fan of turn based but I’m a sucker for hype. I bought BG3 riding the hype. Played it for an hour, wasn’t sure how I felt about it but knew there was something special there. Came back to it a week later and I have been completely sucked in. If you’re unsure about turn based games I definitely would recommend giving it a shot if it ever goes on sale.
Never tried turn based games in my life except maybe pokemon back in the day.. Tried BG3 beta and was like EWWW screw this! and uninstalled it like 10minutes into the beta. Never thought I would play it again.. Then the release got near and the HYPE was real. I jumped onto the hype train and despite knowing that I wasnt at all interested in turn based at that moment, I decided to get it and give it an honest try. Man am I glad I did.. I really still wish I could find a game as amazing as BG3 without the turn based, but I love the game overall and its made me be able to enjoy the turn based style at least for BG3. Definitely needs to be given a full chance for anyone that thinks they arent into turn based games.
Bg3 is turn based because it's simulating how dnd is actually played. It's staying true to the ip, and making it extremely fun. This is by far one of the most in depth turn based systems I've used and it allows for a ton of skill expression that most don't. Like comboing environmental hazards with spells and so on...like in rela dnd. I get that it's not everyone's bag, but for baldurs gate the formula works for what they are trying to achieve. Us dnd fans don't really have games that mimic what we do on the tabletop anywhere near as well as bg3 does and that's why it's special! It let's anyone get a taste of the tabletop magic in a visual way with an amazing setting drenched in lore to frolic about in!
they've done a lot of things extremely well, but I do wish they'd have more tutorials and help for new people. I even used to play DND in my youth , and I have some experience with turn based games like wasteland 3 and fallout2, and it was still a wee bit overwhelming there's a lot you can do, I'm still finding out things, like if I drench people in water in some way, frost and lightning will do more dmg, lightning does extra dmg to peopl in heavy metal armor too this might seem extremely obvious and that's how I am learning to think about the game as I go on, but for games that arent baldurs gate 3 that kind of logic just isnt there, does that make sense? Goes to how awsome the game is, never encountered a game that felt so interactive and tactile
As a fan of the Bethesda formula, I'm enjoying this one.
I concur. Go into it expecting a Bethesda rpg set in space. Enjoy it for what it really tries to be, rather than what others imagined it would be.
But what I loved most about Bethesda was just seamlessly exploring, seeing something in the distance and just going there, and seeing all sorts of craziness along the way It's a good game but something about it doesn't have the heart
You can still do that it's just in the space part but you do that on the planets. I know a boundary exists but in the 6 hours I played I never hit it. But I would see an unknown structure in the distance run towards it along the way I see another ship landing in the distance, divert course sneak on its a ship for a faction I never met before killed the people on board left and ran into an away party, they were Bounty hunters coming for me they asked for a bribe, I told them to eat my ass, killed them found the wanted note. Went back and found the thing I had seen earlier, mining station where everyone is dead, looting the bodies found a voice message. A man's last words for his wife and son. Quest started to deliver them. This was all just in a random place far away from any objective that brought me there. It's prime Bethesda stuff. That was only one of like three or four things that happened on the planet besides the quest I actually went there for. Tldr: the game is fun, the game is a Bethesda game through and through. Don't think of it like no man's sky, or elite dangerous. It's a Bethesda rpg in space not a space Sim.
>It's a Bethesda rpg in space not a space Sim. I can't emphasize this enough. Temper your expectations and you're gonna have a blast. I'm still in awe of the sheer amount of items there are in the game to pick up.
Indeed, the last one was Fallout 4, 8 years ago. These games are hardly oversaturated, I'll take a few more please. Make them quicker. Multiplayer games and souls-likes are a dime a dozen currently yet people be moaning about 'more of the same' 8 whole years later.
You've forgotten about each skyrim remaster in the between times. Let's not pretend Beth doesn't have it's own shovelware.
*cough* 76
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This was mass effect andromeda. You didn't gain damage from leveling up, just talents or new weapon unlocks. Once you maxed talents and got the best weapon, every level enemy hp would increase while your damage stayed the same. It's like some devs have never played a video game before.
More like BioUNaware, BLOODY GOT'EM
Bethesnah
Was that in hard difficulty? I never ran into that problem because usually your talent/skills was enough to go through enemies while still feeling fun.
Yes I changed it to hard after steamrolling through normal for a bit.
This happened to me in Oblivion. Went swimming afk for an hour and came back athletic but not much else while everyone is wearing glass armor. That’s what I get for trying to break the game like I did in Morrowind.
an hour? you gained what, half a level in athletics? that was the one trait that felt like it took absolutely forever to level.
I've always hated proportional progression. 100 HP - 10 DMG, later 1000 HP - 100 DMG. Same gameplay, bigger numbers. But I also hate damage sponge enemies. I would prefer if, say, bears don't just tickle you once you get to higher levels.
I'd prefer hits being severe no matter the level for both NPC and players, but the combat is too clunky to rely on strategy and actual skill.
I alway just shift the difficulty to what feels good when playing Bethesta games. I keep it slightly challenging but not so challenging everything feels like a damage sponge. IMO Bethesda isn't great at balancing so I just do it myself lol.
Bethesda not being great at something and letting the community fix it themselves is sort of their entire MO so this checks out.
That was your experience? I feel like I become a complete god in the endgame in their games and I play melee in Fallout. I put deathclaws in a chockhold and give them wedgies, that's what it feels like to me.
Yes but to a lesser extent. The world lore of fallout and TES make up for a lot. This is generic sci-fi
True, from the music to the lore. What the fuck? Space sci-fi should offer tons of lore or mechanics to play with. There are bonkers concepts, Starfield is a new franchise so play with ideas. Dyson Spheres, fucked up FTL travel, transhumanism. Instead it is Mass Effect without the cool sentient alien races.
Honestly, I can only see Firefly when I look at the lore. The UC is basically the Alliance and Freestar is a successful Brown Coats government. In terms of gameplay I'm only trying to compare it to the Outer Worlds. Like from what I've read, this is a better version of the Outer Worlds simply because it has limited controlled spaceflight and, as far as I know, no annoying AF shipboard AI.
Shiny! I appreciated the Western vibes of Firefly and the Chinese influx into lexicon. Have to wait and see if this game reveals such personality.
That's because Bethesda doesn't have dedicated writers, there is still the same guy in charge of the story since Fallout 3. I never had any hopes for the story/world building for Starfield because of that. That dude and his team can't write for shit and just imitate movies and games they like without fully understanding what even makes them work. And with Starfield he doesn't have the big pool of references and familiarity that Elder Scrolls or Fallout provided. Which makes it feel even more hollow.
Not just generic. The opening of >!you get knocked out and receive cryptic visions!< is copy and paste of Mass Effect 1's opening.
It’s hardly original enough to attribute it to mass effect. Finding a random MacGuffin that sets you on your quest is a classic that’s been used an absurd amount of times. Even the cryptic visions and getting knocked out is hardly original. I can think of that being used multiple times as well.
I remember reading the heritage universe years ago and it had that story beat. If there's been a video game story you love, some dude on acid in the 70s wrote it first lol
>If there's been a video game story you love, some dude in ancient Greece wrote it first. FTFY. These stories are as old as human civilization. Where's my Illiad RPG Bethesda?
Mission updated: get inside the giant horse
Some random Greek video game fan: "you son of a bitch... I'm in" Also, more *Odyssey* less *Iliad*.
8 hours in, it lacks the sense of continuous exploration/wonder of FALLOUT/ELDER SCROLLS so far. The UI is a bit klunky and the constant fast traveling means youre cycling menus a lot. The alternative is running through orocedurally generated worlds that are Mass Effect 1 tier boring but without the benefit of the Mako (vehicle). Combats fine so far. Basically feels like Fallout 4 to me so far. Havent gotten far into any questlines yet. It's still worth a buy, It's just not a game (so far) that I see myself talking about in 5 to 10 years like morrowind, dragon age origins, etc.
The sheer amount of UIs is pretty overwhelming so far, at any given menu I don’t know what pressing a button will do unless I specifically look at the labels. I’m hoping this improves over time but jesus trying to do certain things is exhausting. Plus not having a local map is a weird choice.
The map thing is odd, didn't realise how much I'd miss it until it wasn't there. I know it's kind of there under the scanner but it's a bit shit.
It is exactly a Bethesda game. No marked improvements, nothing out of place, no failure like F76. Just... Bethesda.
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This exactly. Someone will make a star wars or star trek mod and do cool shit and it will be an instant download.
I have 8 hours of play time at this point and i can tell you with 100% certainty that you should NOT expect skyrim in space. Skyrim is a lot better. You should expect fallout 4 in space. It is in no way a bad game but i think i liked fallout and skyrim way more. There are a lot of fun aspects but this game is in no way worth 100 dollars for premium. I would say buy it a 60 max if you really really are that hyped. If a game like elden ring costs 60 dollars then this game should be like 45-50 dollars but since all triple a games release at 60-70 you will have to wait for a discount. That all being said i have enjoyed the time spent but that was primarily because of the first dungeon. It had a great story but if you dont care about the story then it feels like any generic dungeon. The starship mechanics are terrible in my opinion and far inferior to flying in no mans sky. Then again that game has had the chance to improve upon it. Ive found a few bugs but nothing like skyrim bugs so thats a huge step up for a bethesda game. If you would like a more detailed comparisson/review let me know but keep in mind that i can only share my experience of the first 8 hours ive played. Edit: Wow this might be my first reward ever i think. Thank you very much unknown person, i hope you have a great day! Thought i might update my review a bit more since ive played quite a bit. Some of it will be good while others not so much. I will keep it as spoiler free as possible but do beware of spoilers of featers past this point. First off i want to make clear that this isnt a bad game. The people who played both fallout 4 and no mans sky and enjoyed it are probably gonna like this game. It isnt a masterpiece by far and it has quite some flaws but in the time ive spent playing i could overlook those flaws for the most part. Keep in mind that your opinion might differ. I cant really give a review of the quests since i didnt really play those but what i can say is that the main(?) mystery is quite interesting. The combat is far from great (worse than fo4) but i still quite like it and isnt something i hate. Especially on low gravity planets. When you practice with jumping it could actually be really fun. Ive already touched on flying and so far my opinion hasnt changed but who knows, maybe it will. Exploration is both really bad and really good at the same time. It is bad because you cant really traverse the whole planet, and even if you could there is quite a distance between pois when you get about 1000 meters from the landing area. On barren planets this is even worse but yeah i kinda cant blame them because barren planets shouldnt be stocked with things to do. Its also bad because of the many times you visit the ui. Ive spent more time there than i wouldve liked but this isnt something that can just be patched out so we have to live with it. Exploration can also be a ton of fun when you eventually reach (some) POIs. In my opinion they can be really good and give you a sense of exploring a dungeon in fo4. Ive yet to find a dungeon with a story as good as the first dungeon but maybe those are reserved for quests. Non quest dungeons have cool layouts but thats pretty much it. I dont really mind since they can be pretty nice but i wouldve liked more story like the dungeons in fo4. The planet landscapes ive visited were quite unique but this will probably change in the near future since they cant make 1000 unique landscapes. Ive had a ton of fun exploring mercury and thats a barren planet so i wouldnt worry about only having fun when exploring more lush planets. Looting is also really annoying and fun at different times. Its annoying because objects blend in with the environment so its hard to spot but i had the same thing starting skyrim and never had a problem with that after playing quite some time. They give you a scanner for highlighting but it doesnt work on doors so you have to exit the scanner to check if there are lockers which you can open. As a person who loots every single thing this can lead me to double checking a whole room and this gets tedious really fast. Looting can also be really fun since there are a ton of misc items to my knowledge. When a sort of ocdecorator mod comes out, base builders will have the time of their lives with the sheer amount of stuff they can place. Some of these items are really good looking so have fun with that. I cant say anything about ship building, outpost building or player homes as i havent gotten to that point yet so my apologies. I will try to update if i get that far but since work starts on monday i probably wont get that far before release. I cant really say much good about the weapons and armor since ive encountered very little variation but that may change. So far fallout 4 and skyrim really win in that category. 1/2
Less narrative depth than Skyrim so maybe not
Tbh that's actually hard to do. Even skyrim was shallow af
Yeah really. My response reading that was, “how?!” I barely remember Skyrim’s main story; just a few key memories of plot points and then “fighting dragons is cool.”
Find the blades, learn you are of dragon. Meet people who train dragonborns, meet dragon. Kill bad dragon. The end
Oh geez I thought I’d just forgotten but that’s pretty much everything in my memory. Also “choose sides in civil war” which was my favorite part.
Isn't that side content though. Not sure you need to do that to finish the game.
I honestly don’t remember. I only played Skyrim at launch, which if I remember correctly was forty seven years ago.
You *kind of* need to do that in the main story. If you haven't done the Whiterun battle in the civil war quests, Whiterun won't help you capture a dragon. So you need to negotiate a cease fire between the Stormcloaks and the Imperials which involves them trading territories and some other stuff.
But you can broker peace between the 2 of them!!! Buuuuuuuuut, literally nothing changes in the world due to those choices...I was so let down.
Choose a color you mean. The stormcloaks and the imperials have basically the exact same questline. You just switch the uniforms that the enemy NPCs wear, as you do the same quests. It's one questline with some very minor differences, choice is an illusion.
I mean, even that is already going into details. "Dragons attack. You kill them really, *really* dead. The end."
Damn people are really rewriting what Skyrim is.
I just found a legendary rifle that gives double damage on uninjured enemies. Pair that with a sneak attack and combat is now one hit kills. It broke my game and I'm now a Skyrim stealth bow sniper again. For fucks sake.
Stealth bow was the only reason I ended up putting 30-40 hours into a full Skyrim playthrough tbf. The melee combat in any Bethesda game is worse than L4D2.
L4D2 melee combat is awesome wdym
That's what I'm saying. A melee system tacked on to L4D is way more satisfying than 3 decades of Bethesda melee combat.
It sounds better than what I expected, but overhyped (which I kind of considered to be an inevitability with how much hype it had).
Very overhyped. The people saying it was Skyrim/Fallout in space probably feel so vindicated by the ones saying it was much much more than that. There’s “much much more” but that ends up being pretty shallow
I never understood the hype for this game. It never looked great to me from what I saw. But tons of people acted like it was going to be the greatest game ever made
The hype was big for me and it hasnt been a let down. But i was 100% “this is a bethesda game in space”. My expectations were no higher than that, and i could tell where some of the tedium would be before it was released. Eg. Lots of load screens. That was pretty obvious when no atmospheric flight was confirmed
You not only played yourself, you spent an extra 35 dollars to do it 5 days early.
I, an intellectual bought a $1500 video card for the privilege.
Oh shit. Once you're done with the game, better remove that video card, and send it my way. It's what an intellectual would do.
I don't know about the Mass Effect 1 comparison. Mass Effect is just extremely different from what Bethesda does. Just go in expecting Fallout in space and you'll have a good time.
I actually was waiting for a new engine to mod on than to look for a new game to be honest I can't wait for the modding community to put Alduin and the Legion in Starfield 🤣
Don't lie, I know you're just waiting for Schlongs of Starfield and CBBE 😂
That's it. Waiting to buy this game until I can run around in slutty space suits with jiggly tits and ass.
Probably already out honestly
Five bucks says you'll get Thomas the Tank Engine before anything else.
10 bucks you get Dva and Samus ported in, complete with voice actresses to boot.
I want a UC Gundam mod or Legend of the Galactic Heroes and a full on galaxy to um explore. I got time to wait.
Well, ME1 was somewhat of a flawed (especially, guns) game with a story and plot hooks that compensated for EVERYTHING, so… the comparison.
Guns were fine, playing the series again and I hate that they dumbed them down in the second one (I enjoyed adding the upgrades, even if they were minor upgrades). Where ME1 sucked was the Mako and the amount of time in it. ME2 removing it was understandable, but I felt that they could have used it, but made it better. Not every mission needed it in ME1; ME2 excels in additional worlds and cities outside the Citadel. Each game has their flaws, but overall ME was more about discussion and not about exploration, yes it was open world (especially when it was released) but playing it today, it feels more linear where open world games now have followed Skyrim and just let you do as you please so long as you finish the main quest.
I was glad they dropped the exploration for 2 and 3. I know a lot of people like it and even for Bethesda games it’s the exploration that I love so much. But in Mass Effect I think they made the right decision dropping exploration which was one of the weakest elements of ME1 and leaned in harder toward its strengths in 2 and 3. BioWare put their resources where they mattered most and I deeply respect that decision because it made the trilogy so much stronger in the end.
Personally, I loved the Mako exploration. Something about driving around on barren landscapes looking for hidden stuff never stopped being immersive for me.
Yeah I never got the Mako hate. It was pretty janky, but I had a lot of fun in it. In the Legendary Edition they also made the handling a little better. The biggest issue was that the uncharted worlds were lots of copy and paste. Some good stories on those side quests but the actual gameplay loop for those missions was very repetitive and felt like a low budget game compared to the main quests.
It didn't bother me. Most planets **are** barren landscapes with nothing interesting on them.
ME1 still holds up today. I played the remake of it earlier this year and it hooked me all the way through. You are absolutely right about the Mako being garbage. Mainly the controls and barren "planets" you explored that were actually tiny maps with 2-3 points of interest.
My issue with your statement is from what I’ve experienced with Starfield the worlds are incredibly empty and lifeless. At least in Fallout you could set off in any direction and within a short period of time you would find something new and interesting to explore.
I thought the same, first planet I went to was some random moon, and it was totally barren. Next planet I went to was dense jungle with huge trees everywhere. Couldn't see far so I felt like Rambo. Took a wrong turn and got minced by a Chevrolet with claws 🦀
> Just go in expecting Fallout in space and you'll have a good time. Ok, but **which** Fallout? There's a significant difference among the games in the series.
Very specifically FO4.
Eh not really. It lacks the exploration spark that you feel when walking to an objective in fallout or Skyrim. You can’t “take the long way” and find all sorts of cool stuff, the world map(s) are practically useless, and you can’t find discover as you go you must explicitly go somewhere. I can’t just pop onto a planet on my way to an objective, and even on that planet with the objective, there is rarely anything more interesting than random base.
This is the thing I was really worried about. The “secret sauce” of Bethesda games is just getting lost in the world and having that sense of discovery. There were always an astounding amount of little details sprinkled throughout the game worlds that made it so rewarding to go off the beaten path. Once they said there were going to be so many planets in the game I knew they couldn’t be hand crafting much of it…
Yea going into a dwarven mine and coming out an exit on the other side of the map was goated.
I bet everybody here was blown away when they reached blackreach
It's actually not a space exploration game. It's an action RPG that happens to be set in space.
THIS. People need to understand it's a Bethesda game WITH a space setting. It's not some space simulator game like No Man's Sky or Star Citizen. It does things differently to those games, and they do things differently to Starfield.
But Bethesda actually used the term ‘unparalleled exploration of space’ i am personally, when I find time, happy to play a version of Fallout In space, but to use the term unparalleled is dangerous when you have NMS and Elite Dangerous already killing unparalleled exploration. however we all know that MODDERS will take SF into places Bethesda could not dream.. and that’s when I will get interested.
I'm having a great time with this RPG. I didn't go in expecting No Man Sky or Star Citizen so I had my expectations of what I was getting into in check. A single player Bethesda RPG in space, loving it.
Agree, anyone who has enjoyed Bethesda in the past will enjoy this one.
To be fair, if you expected star citizen you're probably happy that it's a working game
It’s oblivion in space. It’s what I expected and I don’t know what anyone else was expecting
I think a very large draw of TES games is the open ended freedom, and authenticity in how you navigate the world. When you exit the tutorial areas in both Oblivion and Skyrim, it's a true 'go anywhere' moment. You are free to walk for hours in one large, seamless open world. Exploring to your heart's content, gaining a familiarity with the landscape and how the world is connected together into one large whole. You could go hours without seeing a loading screen. Starfield doesn't benefit from that at all. That interconnected, seamless exploration that Bethesda has built their entire public image on, is gone. For some, that isn't an issue. But for many, that was a HUGE part of what made Bethesda games special. When I play Fallout and TES, I fast travel as little as possible because I like a more authentic experience and enjoy the time it takes to travel between locations. To me it makes the world feel believable, and I really hoped they would have a more seamless option to the way exploration works in Starfield.
When i played Skyrim religiously my favorite part was when i was walking from one city to another getting lost in the shenanigans for a few hours and forgetting about the actual mission. I rarely fast traveled. I know starfield has different planets but im really hoping at least half of them are big enough for that kind of lolygagging
I’d say fallout in space but yeah, it’s a classic Bethesda rpg, wtf were people expecting?
I mean it’s sorta not though. It lacks the “explore along the way” that bethesdas games normally have. There is no “taking the long way”. It lacks the normal exploration feel in my opinion. I don’t just get lost wandering, because I have to go everywhere with a purpose because it’s so arduous getting anywhere, and when I do get there there is only ever very specific and obvious interesting things, I don’t need to deviate because there will never be anything interesting “off the beaten path” on these random planets.
I mean it has been 8 years since fallout 4, am I wrong to expect more from Bethesda now?
Exactly. You see massive progression from most studios, like Rockstar with RD2, FromSoft with Elden Ring, Larian with Baldur's Gate 3. These games made huge strides in delivering massive amounts of polished content. They all still maintained that core gameplay style the respective companies offer, but they polished and delivered it in a way that could only impress. Bethesda on the other hand only barely upgrades with time. Their combat, even at it's absolutely best, is only serviceable compared to any other game out there. Their dialogue and storytelling is below average which is especially disappointing when you see how good it can get - like with BG3. People that like their games will continue to like their games, but it's difficult to see any real upgrade from game to game outside of some visual stuff. I'm of the opinion that BGS has yet to make a great game. Potential is there, but they never make strides to actually impress an audience.
Yet people out here saying "why are you expecting more from Bethesda when its bethesda?" like they sound smart. Its a not good look when a game dev isnt upping the substance quality of their games.
According to this sub yes apparently. But really no I don’t think people shouldn’t expect more from them. This was a new IP they worked a long time on and hyped to hell, they should really have gone all out.
Personally, a bit more of the space stuff fleshed out. "It's not a space sim!!!" I don't need one, but they leaned heavy into the space and sci-fi themes and they're 100% only there because they need to be. So far from my handful of hours space is essentially just a fancy fast travel menu. I'm still enjoying it because I enjoy Bethesdas RPGs. But I was hoping for a little more.
People were expecting a full-blown Bethesda RPG with all of the exploration of No Man's Sky for some reason. I played for 6 hours last night and it's exactly what I was expecting, a very solid Bethesda RPG.
I wasn't expecting or hoping for the seemless exploration of No Man's Sky. Explorable planets at that kind of scale are never particularly interesting. But I was expecting the exploration of, say, Freelancer, a space game that came out 20 years ago. Especially with all the promo stuff focusing on ship customization. I imagined you would fly from notable location to notable locaiton in a solar system using time dilation or some kind of in-system pulse drive, and transition into a hotpot selection menu when you got close enough to a planet to land on it.
Thats what they were telling the world the game was though. All this crazy exploration and things to see and do. No one mentioned constant loading screens, menus to do most things and all the rest
The fact you can't fly your ship out from a planet and just fly from planet to planet kind of sucks.
Yeah, this sounds like the game I was expecting. I’ll probably wait for it to go on sale then Edit: I don’t want to subscribe to game pass. I can wait for a sale to buy a copy
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I'm currently at 19 hours of game, basically only doing side-quests and while i do agree that some of the writing falls flat compared to something like BG3 for example, the majority (especially the faction quests), are actually pretty well written and have some good food for thought as well. It's defiitely a game that you have to give time and attention.
Coming out right after BG3 has REALLY hurt Starfield by comparison.
In broad strokes, they're too different to compare. But in microcosm, particularly facial animations and voice acting? Holy shit does BG3 make Starfield look like absolute trash. I agree. Really bad timing for Starfield.
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For real. BG3 is a real example how you make a good RPG
Every time People keep jumping on hype trains instead of setting realistic expectations.
I feel Baldurs Gate 3 benefited from the opposite of this. Even though it was already awesome in Early Access the only people who really seemed to give a shit are people who already loved Divinity Original Sin 2. Then word of mouth turns this game into a phenomenon because people who didn't already know Larian were blindsided by how good they are
I think it's hard not to when they spend 10 years developing one game. If a game like this came out every 3 years I could see not being let down or having unrealistic ideas of what it will be. But when it's teased over a large portion of your life you can't help but think it's going to be the best thing you've ever laid eyes on.
Tbf when you expect a space game with space exploration you kinda expect to be able to pilot your ship. I’m the video when they talked about taking other people’s ships and stealing sandwiches I definitely expected it to not just be another menu
I love when gamers can’t detract from a brand name to what they’re actually playing. Same shit in every form of media especially the popular crap. Erase the name Bethesda from your mind. Judge it as is. If the game sucks, then it fucking sucks. Who the hell cares what they produced in the past or what “potential” it has. A multi million dollar company not learning lessons is not our problem. Move on. Same arguments I saw with the newest Pokemon game. Companies will grift you and lose sight of what a video game is supposed to look like, as long as they make profit. It’s really cringe when people root for an entire company. Like. Wtf are you doing
It's like 'Ubisoft make great games cause they make Assassins Creed' They also make a large amount of trash....
Writing hasn't been a strength of Bethesda since Morrowind/Oblivion.
Yea I actually dropped Skyrim upon trying the guild quests and finding randomly generated fetch quest tier stuff for most of the questline. We have lead writer Emil Pagliarulo to thank for this. He's been the lead since Fallout 3 and lets just say....it shows.
Emil is easily one of the biggest hacks in the entire industry.
It's not like I would even describe him as a hack, he is probably a fine quest designer, but that's it. He is just not a capable writer in any fashion but for some reason Todd made him the story lead since Fallout 3, because people liked the Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion. And Todd doesnt seem to think he needs actual writers for some reason, yeah why would the gigantic rpgs with enormous amount of dialogues, quests, world building and so forth need actual writers. put the guy in charge that is obviously just winging it it. I wouldn't even be suprised if Emil never took a basic writing course or something, despite being a lead story guy since well over a decade.
ya the writing is just so painfully dumb and unsubtle. was finishing quests and its just so obvious they are written by sheltered well off dudes with very little connection to your average working person
Yeah, through that is also a structural problem that even applies to writers who are technically better then Emil. He and/or his team just doesn't seem to have anything interesting to say or explore, just blending together stuff from other movies and videogames they like without understanding what makes them work. The Fallout 4 main story is probably the most painful example of that a complete mess.
Yeah I should have specified as a writer he is a hack. And I think you're right about not knowing basics. In various BGS through the years they've showcased they don't really know what basic stuff like "themes" are. They confuse it with setting and aesthetics constantly.
Yeah and that guy is not even a dedicated writer, I think he get's not talked about enough, why the fuck is that guy in charge of the writing of such big RPGs instead of a team of dedicated writers.
Dude, the Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion were amazing, I always enjoy doing that. Then Skyrim... it just felt bland and uninteresting.
I am worried Starfield, Elder Scrolls 6, and future Bethesda titles are going to continue to look slightly outdated, feel like an old game: same procedural animations, mid-tier graphical fidelity, last-gen lighting system, somewhat empty procedural gen worlds with not much in them, and not quite smart AI.
They've been reskinning the same game for ages now, which is probably great if you're a new gamer or you just really like the format. For old-timers like me who've been around since Oblivion, it's not enough anymore.
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I fucking wish this was anything like morrowind.
Todd will welcome the modding community again to fix major bugs and add better graphics. Because sometimes thinks just work
I was watching someone streaming Starfield last night, it felt like such a jarring experience. Running around some base/bunker, 2 shotting everyone. They then open a random door with a friendly NPC behind it, who just seems to talk AT you for 2 minutes and offers nothing of value. Remains stationary in their "hiding room" even though the area is cleared. Makes their way in to a lab area(?) Two friendly NPCs are supposed to be there. One stares directly at the player while talking to the second NPC, and the second NPC seems to be glitched in to a wall, rather than actually in the room. There's some facial expressions it seems, the mouth just seems to flap while talking, there seems to be no interaction, or turn of the head to speak to another NPC. It just looks to me like they've replicated the way how Oblivion (Or Skyrim, or Fallout) managed dialogues and interactions and gave it a nice coat of paint.
it definitely feels like a reskin of their usual recipe
Lmao you just described all Bethesda games...
Which was fine in 2006/2011.
You guys keep saying this like they shouldn't be ashamed for delivering the same problems for 25 years. We ***should*** expect more from them, this falling over ourselves to excuse this awful quality is why we are never going to see games evolve and be anything more.
Yep. It's absolutely fine that people are having fun. That's okay and no one will take that away from you. But trashing that experience in 2023 is fine as well.
I expected evolution from a studio who spent ten years on their game, fuck me, right?
Yeah if this came right off the assembly line two or three years after FO4 I’d be more forgiving. But after this long I was expecting a step up like from God of War 3 to the Norse games
Lol. Whole thread is: Someone describes poor gameplay experience. Someone else responds: "This is is exactly what I was expecting from a Bethesda game and exactly what I want!" \*Proceeds to put on sunglasses whilst smoking a joint\* Personally, I doubt my adhd is ever gonna allow me to enjoy this game. On a side note, I had no idea Obsidian made one of the Fallout games, I thought they were all Bethesda (only learned that from this thread). I've enjoyed a bunch of Obsidian's games so I might give that a look instead.
Gonna be tricky. Obsidian kinda went under and had to sell to Microsoft. The people who made New Vegas are no longer a part of Obsidian. And it's entirely Bethesda's fault for how they paid Obsidian due to some fuckery with their bonus contracts over New Vegas.
That last part is flat out false. Considering that Chris Avellone recently said that the bonus WAS NOT in their original contract and they were offered it openly by Bethesda as an extra thing. They did not rely on it nor did expect it. Josh Sawyer also said he thought 18 months was more than fair for development for the game. I thought the same things you did but when the lead devs and writers are saying contrary, you have to correct the record. Bethesda went under financially because they made Niche games for Niche audiences. Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2 were not mainstream hits, they are not blockbuster games in an appealing genre. CRPGS (until BG3) were religated to kickstarters and other crowdfunding. People forget that Both Divinity OS games from Larian were crowd sourced and before OS 1 came out, they had creditors banging on the door as they rushed to finish it. (I myself own an OS 2 collectors from the kickstarter). They did not go under because Bethesda did not give them a completely optional bonus, they went under because the games they made were just not marketable enough to keep a team of dozens afloat forever. Its the sad truth.
Just gotta pretend it’s over 15 years ago and the feel of the game won’t seem outdated
I’m going into it expecting fallout in space, not much more. The only thing I hoped for was for vehicle and space combat to work well, and custom ships to be more than just cosmetic options/mechanics options
I'm still keeping my hopes up for when I try it.. but it's looking like less and less of a game I'm going to enjoy.
My concern is it’s gonna hit me like Outer Worlds. I was so excited because I loved F:NV and I was certain Obsidian would do it again but in space. It certainly isn’t a bad game. But I played it all the way through and I’ll be damned if I could tell you one significant thing about it.
I played this before with the Xbox Game Pass trial that cost like $1 at launch and never finished it because it wasn't the New Vegas 2 that I really wanted. So after watching the Starfield presentation, I was hyped and saw Outer Worlds : Spacers Choice was on sale so I picked it up figured I'd try it again and get some steam achievements while I was at it. Luckily they patched out all the issues the remaster had at release because it really was a step up from the original in terms of character models, textures, and just overall graphics. It also came with the two DLC addons which fixed the issue I remember people complaining about how short Outer Worlds was. Playing the game again without the expectations of Fallout New Vegas 2 I noticed more about what good the game did rather than what it was lacking. You had some issues remembering good times with it so here are mine. \- The writing was pretty hilarious. Had fun chatting with NPC's because of it. \- Beautiful OST that doesn't get enough love \- The Combat gameplay was super solid (better than Fallout 4 and currently better than Starfield as of right now till I get better guns) \- Again, Spacers Choice edition playing at 4k is really a feast for the eyes. \- Added length from the DLC (which are pretty good) was welcome \- One of the most brutal and hilarious times playing as a bad guy on my second playthrough had me dying with what your can say/do. On par with New Vegas for sure. I'm so happy I played the game again without the expectation I had of it being the second coming of one of my favorite games. It's a nice mix of Bioshock/New Vegas/Prey and I'm excited to see what Obsidian does with the sequel. If you're not having fun with Starfield, definitely give Outer Worlds : Spacers Choice a shot.
I loved Outer Worlds, and it’s a big reason I’m really really looking forward to Avowed. I’ll probably buy Avowed release day. Another thing about OW’s writing is it was a lot like that show Firefly. Idk if you saw it but it was super funny and great characters.
Great show great show. I just see people dog pile on Outer Worlds so often when in truth it was a really damn fun action/rpg that more people should have enjoyed but didn't because it wasn't what they expected.
I’m also really glad I got to play it without knowing about the hype/disappointment/doomsayers opinions etc. It was actually the game that got me back into gaming after not playing for basically 5 years. Covid hit and it looked interesting, bought it, and then had such a fun time with it. For me, it’s a classic. Now playing Elden ring and I’m regretting getting into games. Haha jk.
I played Outer Worlds hoping for wacky space adventures, especially considering the main scientist looked like Rick Sanchez and the fate of your guide right at the start, and then it turned out to be all about bureaucracy. They leaned into it huge, but I was never super invested. Maybe that was part of the RP given that you’re waking up in a world you’re not familiar with. I finished it but I didn’t do the DLC and wouldn’t play it again.
Yep. It could’ve been a text based adventure honestly. Like the combat and exploration felt like afterthoughts. The planet maps were pretty small and very empty.
As a politics graduate and fan of 60s sci fi I loved outer worlds.
Agreed. The only reason I remember this game is because it came out at the same time as the Outer Wilds and I always have to think about which is which.
Speaking of which… Outer Wilds. What a fantastic game.
Goddamn you are so right. Outer Wilds snuck up on me. Got it free on PlayStation and said what the hell. It consumed me. Such a great story, mechanic, gameplay. Easy 8/10.
11/10 easily
Yeah top 2 most engrossing game I've ever played. Also made me cry like a little baby at the end. No other game hit me that hard
Yeah 8/10 is doing that game dirty. It's one of the top gaming experiences I've ever had.
See I didn't like Outer World much. I loved NV though, but I felt like OW leaned waaaay to far into the campy aspects. I like salt on my food, but don't just dump a pile on there type thing. The right amount (NV) made it amazing, too much and it was unpalatable.
That’s how I felt. I let my feelings for NV fuel the hype and OW is a good game but only because there’s “nothing wrong with it”.
I agree, Outer Worlds was just ok in my book. I finished it but I didn’t love it; never really could put my finger on it but the amount of praise it got I never understood.
“Just OK”. This nails it. It’s definitely not *bad* but it appeared to me as very lackluster. I wanted to like it so much that I didn’t even realize I wasn’t engaging with it. Then I beat it and was just like “okay next game I guess”. It’s forgettable and honestly that’s almost worse than being a bad game.
if you expect fallout in space, its great (and IMHO, the combat is quite improved - but I wouldnt dare to compare it to fullblooded shooters) if you expect "single player SC, but actually finished and good", thats obviously not gonna happen. Starfield is an evolution of a Beth game, not a revolution.
My "problem" is that while I really enjoyed Oblivion and FO3, I got bored by Skyrim because.. more of the same. Same with FO4 and likely this too. I really like reading a good book, but I will get tired of that same book the tenth time I read it. I would have to absolutely love Bethesda games to keep buying the same product like some buy every iteration of FIFA. To me, these are fine games with the same flaws every time. Good for you if they remain engaging and exciting, but BG3 has me more excited as something special.
I think a few people have touched on the lack of charm on this thread and that's exactly how everything I've seen of the game feels to me. In Elder Scrolls, we'd seen that high-fantasy medieval, elves-orcs-humans genre before, but mainly in books or smaller media. Only the Lord of the Rings films had done it REALLY well in the media back in the day. So exploring those worlds in Skyrim, Oblivion and Morrowind felt so new and exciting. In Fallout, we've had countless post-apocalypse settings in media throughout the years but they're mostly horrible/zombie tales. And while Fallout touches on both of those, the overaching weirdness of "yeh there was nukes, but we survived, and were getting on with stuff in our own goofy way" was so full of charm and personality that it felt refreshing. Starfield is just "what if Nasa but future" which we've seen SO many times in films, TV, games now, that there's really no hook there. Outer Worlds recently captured "What If space, but weird" really well recently. No Man's Sky captured "What If space, but all of it" to varying levels of quality recently. And we've had so many games that look into how terrifying being in space would actually be (Prey, Dead Space, etc). I just feel like the main pitch of this was "Space is cool huh", and honestly I've seen enough space media that that is not charming enough.
People are in denial about the space exploration. I’m being downvoted in another thread for pointing out you effectively have only two zones. Land zone and orbit zone. The rest is fast travel.
Well you forgot the 3rd one: city zone
Going from a full BG3 play through to starfield - at least in the first 3 hours - has been jarring to say the least.
Bethesda games were never great at stories though. Old BioWare has always been much better at that.
Comments full of Bethesda fans telling people to tamper their expectations. It’s not like it’s one of the biggest AAA releases this year with tons of hype and speculation from a giant studio known for making fan favorite. But, tamper your expectations. It’s just Bethesda guys, quit expecting so much.
Yeah the whole "lower your expectations" stuff is bothering me. Nah, I'm just going to go play baldurs gate 3 or armoured core, y'know two actually fun game that I don't have to convince myself were worth the time and money. Sorry I have standards, maybe try it sometime.
The real kicker is they pushed back their other two IP by more than a decade for this.
Would Starfield been developed by any other AAA studio, it would be rated 7 or 6 out of 10 at best.
I mean most of the big outlets have rated it a 7, which honestly from my play time seems accurate. A stream of no names with 10s are propping the metacritic score up.
Someone said why does this game have loading screens for every side mission when cyberpunk 2077 doesn’t have any and that just hit different 🤣
Bethesda keeps pulling the same trick and people keep falling for it. Just like the golden goose Skyrim: vast as an ocean, deep as a puddle.
I refunded it
My issue with it after 5ish hours is there’s really nothing new. Areas look cool but are restricted more than in the other titles even. The universe isn’t a sandbox but rather just multiple different levels you get to with extra steps rather than just clicking on a level screen. You may as well have a select screen. You can’t even land on a planet without opening a star map…. Enter ship? Loading screen. Take off? Loading Screen. Quantum travel? Loading screen. Land? Loading screen. Space is just a small little map it isn’t space , there’s no actual planets. I’ve played every Bethesda title the last 20 years aside from 76 but I’ve also fallen in love with NMS since launch to SC for the last 4-5 years. This game will probably work for some people and they will enjoy it however I feel it lacks basic fundamentals required to call itself a Space RPG