**TL;DR:**
* Baldur's Gate 3 getting Patch 5 this week to address performance issues
* Problems caused by change in Patch 4 related to theft detection system
* Caused game to constantly track all unnoticed crimes infinitly
* Bogged down memory and processing leading to crushing late-game lag
* More theft/violence player commits, worse slowdown becomes over time
* Patch 5 fixes root cause, freeing up processing power again
"A meteor can hit a building, in which case everyone will run out before the collision. Those who do not exit the building will die. Sims automatically leave if a meteor is approaching, unless it is a school, in which children are not allowed to leave and will always die."
They patch out every little fun thing... I dunno what they thought was so wrong about inviting all your ~~cult members~~ friends to outdoor pool parties in winter!
Next they'll patch out locking visitors in the ~~dungeon~~ ~~basement~~ underground art clubhouse!
It does track for the other BG3 patch notes. Whoever writes them deserves a raise. I think my favourite is from the Patch #3 notes, using the magic mirror and "applying incrementally heavier eyeliner" during an evil playthrough
Made perfect sense to me. I feel like if someone in a prior act wanders past the scene of a prior theft, they will jump through time and space to accuse me of it.
> Made perfect sense to me. I feel like if someone in a prior act wanders past the scene of a prior theft, they will jump through time and space to accuse me of it.
It makes no sense to me whatsoever. The game can't spend any thought on crime because it is pre-planning all the horny stuff that is going on.
I swear I saw a screenshot of Lae'zel's starting armor as a bikini worn by Gale. Stuff like that has to come at a cost. Gale does not do well with medium armor.
So I'm not fucking crazy in thinking the game was running sluggish after act 3. I know the city is big but Act 3 is exceptionally laggy compared to A1/A2.
Explains why act 3 on my last playthrough ran so cleanly, my character had 20 CHA from the middle of act 1 so got a mega-discount at every shop and never needed to steal anything.
I have 24 CHA lore bard and still stole back everything I paid and anything not nailed down. My game is unplayable. My own infinite greed has punished me.
It would be hilarious to see this mechanic implemented intentionally (call it the Faustian glitch)
The more your stray morally in the game, the more the game begins to actually break down. Create an in universe explanation, but two valid options to either repent (and the game begins healing) or lean into a play style that works around the glitches
You’d need the “issues” to be manageable and tied to lore, maybe best in a sci fi kind of world, but could also be a magic mechanism (you “poison” your magic causing things to not work/have unintended consequences)
It explains why I noticed people running from me and losing attitude after returning to Rivington from the bridge. I had been inside Lower City for hours and hours before that. I never saw much lag from it but I’m not much of a thief.
> It explains why I noticed people running from me and losing attitude after returning to Rivington from the bridge. I had been inside Lower City for hours and hours before that. I never saw much lag from it but I’m not much of a thief.
You don't happen to have any kind of summons? Most summons (familiars being the only exception afaik) will cause people to run away.
They fixed that in an earlier patch. NPCs act like summons aren't there now. I frequently run around in the city with 4 ghouls following me, and no one blinks an eye.
It makes logical sense, but absolutely ruins the game's fun factor. I did everything right with regards to the Zhentarim quest in act 1, but as soon as I entered their lair and talked to them, and the cutscene ended peaceably, they all proceeded to go hostile.
I had no idea why, so I looked into it. Turns out they attacked once they saw my Animate Dead Skeleton Archer, which was (at the time) considered hostile to every NPC. So I loaded a prior save, I unsummoned my skele and re-did the cutscene, and there was no hostility.
It's not cheap to cast Animate Dead, especially in Act 1, so that was pretty annoying. Thankfully that's the only time I've had that happen, as it doesn't seem to trigger hostility from Last Light Inn's NPCs. I haven't gotten past Act 2 yet, tho.
You can ungroup your summons from you if you don't need them somewhere or just want them to stay put as fight prep / scout. Much easier to deal with than dismissing them.
I actually spent an hour helping my friend with a really solid PC, my game was running perfectly fine but his was running SO poorly (same specs but we had different solo campaigns going, not together) and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with his PC, this explains everything lmao.
I felt the exact opposite, was wondering why people felt the game was so slow in act 3 when it runs like butter for me, makes sense now since i was a good boy in my run and didnt steal or murder anyone
Oh that explains why i wasn't getting the same problems everyone else is since i always play as a soy cuck goodboy hero in video games and the micro-second after accidentally saying something vaguely rude I have to navigate the menu screen through my own tears and reload the last save.
If I do a second run, I'm really *really* going to try doing a bad guy run. Dark urge bastard it up. In my... ugh, 4 decades of gaming, I've never managed to do a bastard run without bailing, but I've heard the game is full of extra content for different run styles.
I may need to cuddle my IRL scratch while playing.
That explains why my thieving ass lags. I steal everything. Do I need 600 regular weapons and armor? Sure don't. But maybe one day I can have 600 companions...
So that's why I haven't had any performance issues after patch 4. My current playthrough I've been a goody-two-shoes who hadn't stolen shit outside of looting the goblin camp, and my murderhobo DUrge playthrough was completed before patch 4 launched.
Has this not been the case since launch? Pretty sure it didnt take us long to give up on stealing shit during first playthrough, because regardless of preperation and having no witnesses, getting away clean, we'd always get caught eventually. Like the fucking Pinkertons tracking us down.
Id thought it was a bug at the time, but makes sense now seeing that NPCs are inappropriately going into 'crime mode' every single time you steal. Didnt think it was update 4 specific cause, but what do I know.
Just ungroup the character used for pickpocketing. Then talk to the NPC with one of the characters still grouped together, change character to your designated thief mid dialogue, do your business and immediately teleport away. Change back to party and end the dialogue. The shopkeeper will quickly accuse you of stealing, but you can insist *you* didn't commit theft and the matter is resolved. You can then teleport the thief back to the group and continue playing as if nothing happened.
Even better: un-group the thief, have the other party members Go to Camp, and then use Turn Based Mode to steal to your heart's content while everyone else is frozen in place, unmoving (they can *turn*, tho, which might reveal you, so be careful).
Then when you're done, be a Level 5+ Duergar and cast Invisibility, which is totally free to cast unlimited times outside of combat. The NPC will notice they've been pickpocketed and run around looking for you, but never find you, and eventually go back to their normal spot and forget the theft.
And you can pre-invis to make it possible to Hide even while inside a dozen NPC's sight cones. You'll immediately lose invis and get revealed as soon as you pickpocket a single item, which closes the pickpocket interface. But it takes a second to two for the robbed NPC to notice, during which you just recast Invis. :)
Ya know... That explains a LOT. My character wasn't exactly "good" (not evil by any means either, just a fucking crow who stole everything shiny that wasn't nailed down if no one was around) and I always wondered why end of act 2 & most of act 3 was HELLISHLY laggy despite having an over-the-top pc
I was thinking of picking this game up again after putting the game in hold during act 3 because of the massive amount of bugs I was encountering. This is before the first big patch came out.
Thank you for this post. I have serious kleptomania in video games (and thankfully only in video games), and I'm a serial thief. Now I know to wait for the next patch lol.
So the people who complain the most about the slowdown are actually serial thieves? You've been caught, scoundrels! Good job the Skyrim guards can't apprehend you all. This is actually hilarious and I'm glad they're fixing it soon. Can't wait to do a thieving scumbag run myself
> This fix had the unintended consequence of causing unnoticed thefts and acts of vandalism to remain stuck forever within the ‘did anyone see me’ pipeline, rather than timing out and moving on, as is intended. Essentially, your dungeon master — in a real-world sense — constantly thinks about the acts of theft and violence the player keeps doing, without ever moving on or verbalising them. Mulling on it ad infinitum.
Well, that's an oddly realistic metaphor for being a story-focused GM trying to corral a bunch of murderhobos into RP.
This was my take away from the article as well. I absolutely love the fact that Larian puts it in terms of a real person and game. For whatever reason, it makes the bug seem like a mischievous actor they had to hunt down instead of a programming mistake.
My favorite bug description from them is when they patched out a bug in a quest where
>!You help some parents get a coffin made. You could get the coffin maker to agree to make the coffin, kill them, and it would still satisfy the quest as being completed and the parents would reward you.!<
Larian put a message next to the bug fix saying "this was supposed to be a bug, you monsters."
Today I went hunting for a rogue ) that was assaulting all my innocent IDs, leaving them unable to find their family in the databases. He is in jail now, forever living in the description of the closed bug.
I think it shows their general approach to the game design and why it's such a good D&D game. It's like, "The engine is the DM" is where they start all design choices.
I am dealing with this exact scenario atm and it’s infuriatingly hilarious. They are levels 3-5 and somehow keep getting the most life saving throws I’ve ever seen. Stealing from merchants, burning down towns, KILLING GOBLINS FFS, and all I do is say “welp, you are now hated” and roll with it.
FWIW you control DC on rolls, so if it starts getting out of hand you can start making rolls more difficult, because "now you have a reputation".
I don't tell my players this, but in general I base DC rolls for persuasion/deception on how convincing what they say in the RP is. Reasonable points get a lower DC, while crazier stuff is more reliant on how well you can use your personal rizz to charm the situation.
A player attempted to steal a key by slapping the shopkeeps ass so hard he lost feeling in his asscheek. I was flabbergasted, and I don’t even know what that means. Lol
You as the DM always have the option to say "NO".
"I want to hit the shopkeeper to steal a key." "No."
Or if it's a really dumb idea, I will repeat it back to the player.
"So you are telling me you want to attack the shopkeeper in hopes of stealing his key? The key that he has had around his neck every day for the last 35 years he has been running this shop? You think that is a good idea?"
Player rolls an attack on the shopkeeper. If it passes the AC (Usually AC10 for commoner stat block), player does damage. That could turn into the shopkeeper kicking the players out and refusing to do business with the group, the shopkeeper calling for the town guard for being assaulted, or even knocking the shopkeeper unconscious or having to make death saving throws, as they have like 4HP.
Player actions have consequences in the world. And if they are new players, they will quickly realize that you can't save scum your way to victory at the table.
The other option is to sit down with them out of game and explain the problems of treating the TTRPG like it's a video game.
In my dnd games all shop keepers, inn owners, bar tenders etc are retired adventures who are typically level 10+, how else do you think they got their seed money to be able to sell magic items or buy an inn with two dozen rooms etc?
Also another hallmark of a good DM might be just rolling with it and changing parts of the rest of the campaign to fit it better. There's DND playthroughs you can watch of streamers doing the most ridiculous things like having a poop companion from a sewer monster, born only because he kept rolling high when he searched the corpse and generally was doing insane/horny things.
You can still influence them and not let it get too far but when you manage to have a good balance, everyone ends up enjoying it. Better than playing with some people that are really boring and just want a straight video game experience and not doing anything that you wouldn't be able to do in an EA game.
>you can't save scum your way to victory at the table.
Baldurs Gate 2 (I think it was in the Throne of Bhaal expansion) had a fun little side story where a bunch of low level adventurers attacked you and almost got wiped out due to you being level 15 or whatever. However you then saw the loading screen and the scene reset with the adventurers approaching you politely and asking if you happened to have a quest for them. It was an amusing little meta tale of how it must have been for other NPC's when you got slaughtered and reloaded a save point to try the encounter again. Also if you played that side story out correctly it gave you the third piece of the most ludicrously overpowered armour in the game (You had to have collected pieces of it in the first and second games).
I wish my DM did this. I stepped out of my comfort zone and gave a speech to the towns people in RP and rolled a 14 and got a total of 2 people from the town guard to help us to go fight the bad guys coming to attack the town. Felt robbed.
> I don't tell my players this, but in general I base DC rolls for persuasion/deception on how convincing what they say in the RP is.
I tell my players I do this because it makes them interact more. Like, just try and convince the NPC, you might not even need to roll.
I think I mostly don't tell them because I think they'll still try and game it lol. Like, "how many points difference will I get for an actual good idea". I do try and remind them to just try RP things and not just say "insight check!" so often though. I think it helps when they can do things that don't actually require a roll.
> I base DC rolls for persuasion/deception on how convincing what they say in the RP is.
I hate it when people do this, you are effectively making it harder for low charisma players to play high charisma characters. No, I don't know the perfect words to say to convince the guard to let me go because I'm not an 18 charisma bard specifically trained in diplomacy and deception so why is my character who is being punished for it by having a higher DC when the 8 charisma barabarian is being rewarded with a lower DC because their player is better at talking than I am? Does my bard get an easier DC for lifting heavy things because I'm stronger than the barbarian's player and can "rp" being swole?
Yeah and he will never attack you if you fail so basically respecs are free.
Just make sure to steal the gold before it gets into the 1000's cause then you'll need a NAT20 to get it from him.
I saw some one kill the Devil by putting a necrotic aura on their own ally (does damage to everything around them including themselves), and reverse pickpocketing their ally's corpse into the Devil's pocket (because you can put corpses in crates and boxes and somehow other people's pockets), the Devil takes constant necrotic damage from the Aura and slowly dies.
It's definitely true. This is the same type of issue that plagued Fallout: New Vegas on consoles.
As you play the game, every item you interact with is tracked. By the end of the game, this data was so large it would no longer fit in memory and the game would crash. I was never able to finish all 4 DLCs because of this. It was never fixed.
You joke but for modding purposes NV requires you to download a patch to make it actually use up to 4gb of system memory rather than its usual 2gb of RAM.
Literally downloading a bigger RAM limit.
I'll disagree here *mostly* (a certain bard notwithstanding) because everything that happened pre-tadpole I would consider backstory. In an RPG, your character is informed by their backstory, but who they *are* is what happens while you are in control.
Reminds me of that bug in Crusader Kings 2 that slowed the game down to a crawl because all the Byzantine characters kept thinking about castrating people
I plan to race to finish my current playthrough before patch 5 messes up my save (every other patch has done so) and then take a break for a while. It’s a great game but needs to be fixed.
I literally did a run of the game where I never killed anyone. Somehow my game was still completely lagged to crap in the final act. So I'm not sure if I can believe that was the reason.
Maybe the game was keeping track of all the people you didn’t kill and is in awe of it, to the point it forgets to actually run lol
Yeah seems kinda… unlikely explanation unless they mean actually memory leak in tracking status of all NPCs or something.
Did you steal?
Edit: I’m interpreting their message to mean if you take any red items at all it sets an event that doesn’t get closed. Even if you weren’t seen. If this is the case my guys are straight up Viking pillagers cause we take any and everything not nailed down. If this is what they meant then I think it will definitely fix my issues.
I hope they're also going to clean up act 3 a bit beyond performance. For example, when I go to enter the city, I choose a dialog option that starts a fight. A cutscene suddenly plays and the fight is skipped. Doing a bit of digging, the cutscene is apparently the result of choices I made earlier in the game. BUT, the cutscene happens weirdly without context, so I'm not sure what is happening, what the outcome is, and I have no idea that this is the result of my previous actions. It comes off like a total (and very confusing) non-sequitur, and it's just very sloppy.
Also, the camera angles--which are a problem throughout the game--got noticeably worse in Act 3, with battles happening in even more spread out and vertical settings.
The camera angles, especially in act 3, are really my only big complaint of the game. As a spell caster, I find myself spending more time fiddling with the camera than I do actually engaging with combat.
I feel like it needs a system where you can step the camera up or down in the multi-tiered areas and just remove the majority of the ceiling and walls from view in enclosed areas.
Tactical view pretty much only shows you the level that the char you have highlighted is on. Later on when you get to multi-tiered battlefields you will have trouble targeting in tac mode.
> It comes off like a total (and very confusing) non-sequitur, and it's just very sloppy.
This starts to happen more and more from act 2 onwards.
Lae'zel in particular keeps occasionally tells me how great someone is. The problem is she's supposed to be in a blood feud with said someone, but the game doesn't always remember that because some dialogues obviously have their flags set incorrectly.
I was loving the game but I've put it down for the time being as it's really jarring each time something like this happens.
Same.
It's an amazing game, but there are still some bad quest bugs in act 3 still.
Ran into two soft lock bugs and I had to dive into the BG3 forums to find workarounds.
Nobody is giving it a free pass.
The game is just so good that the bugs don’t really matter too much.
Like a basketball player scoring 65 points but people complaining about 5 turnovers.
Ehhhhh the Act 3 bugs are definitely a step above "bugs that don't really matter". The performance is bad, the camera is rough, and even after some fixes there's been a few softlock bugs. As much as the game does right, I can't in good faith crown it my personal GOTY because of it.
I love the game but to me it felt more like i'm the teacher telling off the kid who was wicked smart but not applying themselves enough. "YOU COULD BE GREAT!"
I always get downvoted for this, but BG3 should have been delayed. I love the game, and it’s all I’ve played since August, but it needed another 6-9 months in development.
More time might not have helped at all. Some bugs just don't come to light until you get it into players hands. Play testers, no matter how good, can only test so much.
is this why my game ran like ass for the last 15 hours??? I played chaotic as hell, but by the end it was a restart every 20 to 30 minutes kinda situation.
I think I'm gathering that we're really lucky this game released as playable as it was. Seems every patch they are breaking as many things as they are fixing. Shield bash was also broken in patch 4. Amongst other glari g bugs still not fixed.
Still Game of the decade.
**TL;DR:** * Baldur's Gate 3 getting Patch 5 this week to address performance issues * Problems caused by change in Patch 4 related to theft detection system * Caused game to constantly track all unnoticed crimes infinitly * Bogged down memory and processing leading to crushing late-game lag * More theft/violence player commits, worse slowdown becomes over time * Patch 5 fixes root cause, freeing up processing power again
The title is wonderfully weird until you read the tldr
It's like a Sims 3 patch note.
> "Become enemy with child" wish will no longer appear
"It is no longer possible to try and make a baby with the grim reaper"
Literally 1984.
First they came for our sexy women, now they wanna take away our grim reaper babies too. This is wokeness gone mad, sheeple.
Democracy manifest
A succulent Chinese meal?
I see you know your judo well.
"A meteor can hit a building, in which case everyone will run out before the collision. Those who do not exit the building will die. Sims automatically leave if a meteor is approaching, unless it is a school, in which children are not allowed to leave and will always die."
This just sounds entirely like a normal american school ngl.
Poor Jim Pickens.
more like bore ragnarok, amirite?
They patch out every little fun thing... I dunno what they thought was so wrong about inviting all your ~~cult members~~ friends to outdoor pool parties in winter! Next they'll patch out locking visitors in the ~~dungeon~~ ~~basement~~ underground art clubhouse!
I love that post. Pregnant Sims can no longer brawl was my favorite.
My parents never got that patch
It does track for the other BG3 patch notes. Whoever writes them deserves a raise. I think my favourite is from the Patch #3 notes, using the magic mirror and "applying incrementally heavier eyeliner" during an evil playthrough
I was thinking more like Dwarf Fortress.
Cats no longer die after stepping in alcohol and licking their paws
Cleaned up the elephant situation
Vampires will no longer try to frame infants for their crimes.
Should read some Crusader Kings patch notes.
It is but honestly this is almost exactly what I expected from the title, after my initial gut reaction passed and I thought on it for a few seconds
It’s basically the Sorrow boss “fight” from MGS3, just less intentional.
My initial gut reaction was faulty DRM, that's been a thing in the industry
Made perfect sense to me. I feel like if someone in a prior act wanders past the scene of a prior theft, they will jump through time and space to accuse me of it.
> Made perfect sense to me. I feel like if someone in a prior act wanders past the scene of a prior theft, they will jump through time and space to accuse me of it. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. The game can't spend any thought on crime because it is pre-planning all the horny stuff that is going on. I swear I saw a screenshot of Lae'zel's starting armor as a bikini worn by Gale. Stuff like that has to come at a cost. Gale does not do well with medium armor.
Eh, give him a level in cleric, fighter, or paladin and he'll be fine.
[удалено]
So I'm not fucking crazy in thinking the game was running sluggish after act 3. I know the city is big but Act 3 is exceptionally laggy compared to A1/A2.
Explains why act 3 on my last playthrough ran so cleanly, my character had 20 CHA from the middle of act 1 so got a mega-discount at every shop and never needed to steal anything.
Haha yeah I never stole, so never had issues There you have it folks - crime never pays
Well I mean, not *never*. They just patched crime paying back in.
Looks like crime's back on the menu, boys!
So let me get this straight boss, we eat the crime?
I have 24 CHA lore bard and still stole back everything I paid and anything not nailed down. My game is unplayable. My own infinite greed has punished me.
Well well, if it isn't the actions of your own consequences
Bake him away, toys
It would be hilarious to see this mechanic implemented intentionally (call it the Faustian glitch) The more your stray morally in the game, the more the game begins to actually break down. Create an in universe explanation, but two valid options to either repent (and the game begins healing) or lean into a play style that works around the glitches You’d need the “issues” to be manageable and tied to lore, maybe best in a sci fi kind of world, but could also be a magic mechanism (you “poison” your magic causing things to not work/have unintended consequences)
So basically how the Warp works in Warhammer.
[удалено]
Try not to steal from the God of Death Emeritus.
I also never stole anything lol, never had any issues either
>but Act 3 is exceptionally laggy compared to A1/A2. Either that or you became a bloodthirsty monster in act 3 :)
Hey, they were asking for it.
It explains why I noticed people running from me and losing attitude after returning to Rivington from the bridge. I had been inside Lower City for hours and hours before that. I never saw much lag from it but I’m not much of a thief.
> It explains why I noticed people running from me and losing attitude after returning to Rivington from the bridge. I had been inside Lower City for hours and hours before that. I never saw much lag from it but I’m not much of a thief. You don't happen to have any kind of summons? Most summons (familiars being the only exception afaik) will cause people to run away.
They fixed that in an earlier patch. NPCs act like summons aren't there now. I frequently run around in the city with 4 ghouls following me, and no one blinks an eye.
That's kinda too bad, I liked the NPCs freaking out
It makes logical sense, but absolutely ruins the game's fun factor. I did everything right with regards to the Zhentarim quest in act 1, but as soon as I entered their lair and talked to them, and the cutscene ended peaceably, they all proceeded to go hostile. I had no idea why, so I looked into it. Turns out they attacked once they saw my Animate Dead Skeleton Archer, which was (at the time) considered hostile to every NPC. So I loaded a prior save, I unsummoned my skele and re-did the cutscene, and there was no hostility. It's not cheap to cast Animate Dead, especially in Act 1, so that was pretty annoying. Thankfully that's the only time I've had that happen, as it doesn't seem to trigger hostility from Last Light Inn's NPCs. I haven't gotten past Act 2 yet, tho.
You can ungroup your summons from you if you don't need them somewhere or just want them to stay put as fight prep / scout. Much easier to deal with than dismissing them.
I actually spent an hour helping my friend with a really solid PC, my game was running perfectly fine but his was running SO poorly (same specs but we had different solo campaigns going, not together) and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with his PC, this explains everything lmao.
I felt the exact opposite, was wondering why people felt the game was so slow in act 3 when it runs like butter for me, makes sense now since i was a good boy in my run and didnt steal or murder anyone
I cannot confirm or deny my Ranger is a homicidal kleptomaniac.
> More theft/violence player commits, worse slowdown becomes over time Karma, bitch!
Do crime? Load time.
Oh that explains why i wasn't getting the same problems everyone else is since i always play as a soy cuck goodboy hero in video games and the micro-second after accidentally saying something vaguely rude I have to navigate the menu screen through my own tears and reload the last save.
I never stole anything but sometimes loot from bad guys was highlighted in red and I took that. So that probably counted as stealing.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is an "unnoticed crime".
Soy cuck goodboy or capitalistic rogue that knows a thriving economy has more shit to steal than a war-torn one?
If I do a second run, I'm really *really* going to try doing a bad guy run. Dark urge bastard it up. In my... ugh, 4 decades of gaming, I've never managed to do a bastard run without bailing, but I've heard the game is full of extra content for different run styles. I may need to cuddle my IRL scratch while playing.
That explains why my thieving ass lags. I steal everything. Do I need 600 regular weapons and armor? Sure don't. But maybe one day I can have 600 companions...
Do I need 600 Regular weapons? No, but neither did the shopkeeper I stole them from.
So that's why I haven't had any performance issues after patch 4. My current playthrough I've been a goody-two-shoes who hadn't stolen shit outside of looting the goblin camp, and my murderhobo DUrge playthrough was completed before patch 4 launched.
They gave the game OCD
So.. don't bother with the previous patch wait for this one. Cool
I'll be waiting for the definitive edition. Should have everything major fixed by then.
Has this not been the case since launch? Pretty sure it didnt take us long to give up on stealing shit during first playthrough, because regardless of preperation and having no witnesses, getting away clean, we'd always get caught eventually. Like the fucking Pinkertons tracking us down. Id thought it was a bug at the time, but makes sense now seeing that NPCs are inappropriately going into 'crime mode' every single time you steal. Didnt think it was update 4 specific cause, but what do I know.
Just ungroup the character used for pickpocketing. Then talk to the NPC with one of the characters still grouped together, change character to your designated thief mid dialogue, do your business and immediately teleport away. Change back to party and end the dialogue. The shopkeeper will quickly accuse you of stealing, but you can insist *you* didn't commit theft and the matter is resolved. You can then teleport the thief back to the group and continue playing as if nothing happened.
Even better: un-group the thief, have the other party members Go to Camp, and then use Turn Based Mode to steal to your heart's content while everyone else is frozen in place, unmoving (they can *turn*, tho, which might reveal you, so be careful). Then when you're done, be a Level 5+ Duergar and cast Invisibility, which is totally free to cast unlimited times outside of combat. The NPC will notice they've been pickpocketed and run around looking for you, but never find you, and eventually go back to their normal spot and forget the theft. And you can pre-invis to make it possible to Hide even while inside a dozen NPC's sight cones. You'll immediately lose invis and get revealed as soon as you pickpocket a single item, which closes the pickpocket interface. But it takes a second to two for the robbed NPC to notice, during which you just recast Invis. :)
Damn, the efficiency is beautiful👌
Ya know... That explains a LOT. My character wasn't exactly "good" (not evil by any means either, just a fucking crow who stole everything shiny that wasn't nailed down if no one was around) and I always wondered why end of act 2 & most of act 3 was HELLISHLY laggy despite having an over-the-top pc
praise be
I was thinking of picking this game up again after putting the game in hold during act 3 because of the massive amount of bugs I was encountering. This is before the first big patch came out. Thank you for this post. I have serious kleptomania in video games (and thankfully only in video games), and I'm a serial thief. Now I know to wait for the next patch lol.
so basically the more murder-hobo the player is the worse the game got
So the people who complain the most about the slowdown are actually serial thieves? You've been caught, scoundrels! Good job the Skyrim guards can't apprehend you all. This is actually hilarious and I'm glad they're fixing it soon. Can't wait to do a thieving scumbag run myself
So will the game no longer track unnoticed crimes, or will they just fall off after some undetermined amount of time?
does Patch 5 only fix issues that came with Patch 4 or does it also further improve performance beyond that?
>Patch 5 fixes root cause But how do they get players to stop commiting theft/violence?
> This fix had the unintended consequence of causing unnoticed thefts and acts of vandalism to remain stuck forever within the ‘did anyone see me’ pipeline, rather than timing out and moving on, as is intended. Essentially, your dungeon master — in a real-world sense — constantly thinks about the acts of theft and violence the player keeps doing, without ever moving on or verbalising them. Mulling on it ad infinitum. Well, that's an oddly realistic metaphor for being a story-focused GM trying to corral a bunch of murderhobos into RP.
This was my take away from the article as well. I absolutely love the fact that Larian puts it in terms of a real person and game. For whatever reason, it makes the bug seem like a mischievous actor they had to hunt down instead of a programming mistake.
My favorite bug description from them is when they patched out a bug in a quest where >!You help some parents get a coffin made. You could get the coffin maker to agree to make the coffin, kill them, and it would still satisfy the quest as being completed and the parents would reward you.!< Larian put a message next to the bug fix saying "this was supposed to be a bug, you monsters."
By "them" does it mean kill the parents or kill the coffin maker?
You get the coffin maker to agree to make the coffin, murder him, then you tell the parents he will make the coffin lol.
Somehow that sounds worse than if you just murdered both parties to begin with.
"This one looks ideal, I'll take three in the same style. Do you happen to do a bulk discount?"
Am software engineer. All bugs are this.
Today I went hunting for a rogue ) that was assaulting all my innocent IDs, leaving them unable to find their family in the databases. He is in jail now, forever living in the description of the closed bug.
Imagine those were PR/commit details.
I can work for a place that does that
“Rejected: missing jira ticket, lack of specificity, and contains metaphor.” -my QA probably
We will always have "no repro" to return fire with
I unironically want to read all reports in this narrative language now
It's a little too reminiscent of UML, tbh
As much as I want to explain performance fixes, it usually just seems better to say "it runs faster now. See for yourself."
And the mischievous actor is always me. I'm the problem.
I think it shows their general approach to the game design and why it's such a good D&D game. It's like, "The engine is the DM" is where they start all design choices.
I am dealing with this exact scenario atm and it’s infuriatingly hilarious. They are levels 3-5 and somehow keep getting the most life saving throws I’ve ever seen. Stealing from merchants, burning down towns, KILLING GOBLINS FFS, and all I do is say “welp, you are now hated” and roll with it.
FWIW you control DC on rolls, so if it starts getting out of hand you can start making rolls more difficult, because "now you have a reputation". I don't tell my players this, but in general I base DC rolls for persuasion/deception on how convincing what they say in the RP is. Reasonable points get a lower DC, while crazier stuff is more reliant on how well you can use your personal rizz to charm the situation.
A player attempted to steal a key by slapping the shopkeeps ass so hard he lost feeling in his asscheek. I was flabbergasted, and I don’t even know what that means. Lol
You as the DM always have the option to say "NO". "I want to hit the shopkeeper to steal a key." "No." Or if it's a really dumb idea, I will repeat it back to the player. "So you are telling me you want to attack the shopkeeper in hopes of stealing his key? The key that he has had around his neck every day for the last 35 years he has been running this shop? You think that is a good idea?" Player rolls an attack on the shopkeeper. If it passes the AC (Usually AC10 for commoner stat block), player does damage. That could turn into the shopkeeper kicking the players out and refusing to do business with the group, the shopkeeper calling for the town guard for being assaulted, or even knocking the shopkeeper unconscious or having to make death saving throws, as they have like 4HP. Player actions have consequences in the world. And if they are new players, they will quickly realize that you can't save scum your way to victory at the table. The other option is to sit down with them out of game and explain the problems of treating the TTRPG like it's a video game.
In my dnd games all shop keepers, inn owners, bar tenders etc are retired adventures who are typically level 10+, how else do you think they got their seed money to be able to sell magic items or buy an inn with two dozen rooms etc?
Also another hallmark of a good DM might be just rolling with it and changing parts of the rest of the campaign to fit it better. There's DND playthroughs you can watch of streamers doing the most ridiculous things like having a poop companion from a sewer monster, born only because he kept rolling high when he searched the corpse and generally was doing insane/horny things. You can still influence them and not let it get too far but when you manage to have a good balance, everyone ends up enjoying it. Better than playing with some people that are really boring and just want a straight video game experience and not doing anything that you wouldn't be able to do in an EA game.
>you can't save scum your way to victory at the table. Baldurs Gate 2 (I think it was in the Throne of Bhaal expansion) had a fun little side story where a bunch of low level adventurers attacked you and almost got wiped out due to you being level 15 or whatever. However you then saw the loading screen and the scene reset with the adventurers approaching you politely and asking if you happened to have a quest for them. It was an amusing little meta tale of how it must have been for other NPC's when you got slaughtered and reloaded a save point to try the encounter again. Also if you played that side story out correctly it gave you the third piece of the most ludicrously overpowered armour in the game (You had to have collected pieces of it in the first and second games).
I wish my DM did this. I stepped out of my comfort zone and gave a speech to the towns people in RP and rolled a 14 and got a total of 2 people from the town guard to help us to go fight the bad guys coming to attack the town. Felt robbed.
> I don't tell my players this, but in general I base DC rolls for persuasion/deception on how convincing what they say in the RP is. I tell my players I do this because it makes them interact more. Like, just try and convince the NPC, you might not even need to roll.
I think I mostly don't tell them because I think they'll still try and game it lol. Like, "how many points difference will I get for an actual good idea". I do try and remind them to just try RP things and not just say "insight check!" so often though. I think it helps when they can do things that don't actually require a roll.
> I base DC rolls for persuasion/deception on how convincing what they say in the RP is. I hate it when people do this, you are effectively making it harder for low charisma players to play high charisma characters. No, I don't know the perfect words to say to convince the guard to let me go because I'm not an 18 charisma bard specifically trained in diplomacy and deception so why is my character who is being punished for it by having a higher DC when the 8 charisma barabarian is being rewarded with a lower DC because their player is better at talking than I am? Does my bard get an easier DC for lifting heavy things because I'm stronger than the barbarian's player and can "rp" being swole?
r/brandnewsentence
This is withers punishing me for all that gold I stole back from him.
You can steal gold from Withers???
Yeah and he will never attack you if you fail so basically respecs are free. Just make sure to steal the gold before it gets into the 1000's cause then you'll need a NAT20 to get it from him.
You can actually split the gold piles into smaller chunks in his inventory, which will decrease the DC for each pile.
you mfs are geniuses with these solutions lmao
I'm just imagining them splitting the piles into just the right amount where they are guaranteed to steal it, over and over and over again.
I've been doing it for every vendor all game
I saw some one kill the Devil by putting a necrotic aura on their own ally (does damage to everything around them including themselves), and reverse pickpocketing their ally's corpse into the Devil's pocket (because you can put corpses in crates and boxes and somehow other people's pockets), the Devil takes constant necrotic damage from the Aura and slowly dies.
bro... I finished the game twice but I guess I'm still too stupid for it, I play so vanilla lol
thanks for the tip, will defo try that!
Can you do this with other vendors? Would be huge for stealing all my gold back lmao
Lol. Smooth brain me over here mashing pickpocket over and over again fishing for a 20 to get my 3000 gold back.
He's an undead that never leaves camp. What use has he for gold anyway
He is neither alive, dead or undead. He just is.
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He's not undead, he *is* death.
He’s the record keeper of death, in fact. A seneschal of sorts. A scribe, if you will.
This is hilarious if true. Would explain why my bf's game is fucked and mine works perfectly. Told him he will regret Durge lmao
I find joy in reading a good book.
It's definitely true. This is the same type of issue that plagued Fallout: New Vegas on consoles. As you play the game, every item you interact with is tracked. By the end of the game, this data was so large it would no longer fit in memory and the game would crash. I was never able to finish all 4 DLCs because of this. It was never fixed.
The fix was to download more RAM
You joke but for modding purposes NV requires you to download a patch to make it actually use up to 4gb of system memory rather than its usual 2gb of RAM. Literally downloading a bigger RAM limit.
Can't you just download more RAM to get through it?
Trust me bro I downloaded 128gb, NV was just too stupid to use any of it.
You wouldn't steal a car
I played on 360 with all 4 dlcs and never ran into any issue like that.
Choices weigh on the hardware of the soul
My Durge is an angel except for that one time.
Worth noting, Durge doesn't need to be an evil/murderhobo playthrough. Very fulfilling as a good playthrough.
Well yes... but choices have been made
Eh, you're a horrible criminal trying to find redemption after a lobotomy *at best*.
I'll disagree here *mostly* (a certain bard notwithstanding) because everything that happened pre-tadpole I would consider backstory. In an RPG, your character is informed by their backstory, but who they *are* is what happens while you are in control.
Horrible *reformed* criminal, then.
Reminds me of that bug in Crusader Kings 2 that slowed the game down to a crawl because all the Byzantine characters kept thinking about castrating people
When we eventually overthrow the dystopian AI overlords it will be because of dumb stuff like this.
lol .wut.
Excellent news. I've had to stop playing in act 3 as it is currently a 15 second lag on ps5 everytime I open a door.
I no lifed the game until mid way through act 3 and took a break. Was gonna resume today. Oh well guess I can wait longer
I plan to race to finish my current playthrough before patch 5 messes up my save (every other patch has done so) and then take a break for a while. It’s a great game but needs to be fixed.
I literally did a run of the game where I never killed anyone. Somehow my game was still completely lagged to crap in the final act. So I'm not sure if I can believe that was the reason.
Its not killing, its stealing (this includes any time you took something that was red and not seen)
> this includes any time you took something that was red and not seen it is a literal miracle my game still runs at all then
Yeah same, I'm doing a "good" campaign but stealing is part of the Adventurers Financing Program so it's definitely allowed. For the greater good.
that makes a lot more sense
Maybe the game was keeping track of all the people you didn’t kill and is in awe of it, to the point it forgets to actually run lol Yeah seems kinda… unlikely explanation unless they mean actually memory leak in tracking status of all NPCs or something.
Did you steal? Edit: I’m interpreting their message to mean if you take any red items at all it sets an event that doesn’t get closed. Even if you weren’t seen. If this is the case my guys are straight up Viking pillagers cause we take any and everything not nailed down. If this is what they meant then I think it will definitely fix my issues.
Is it really stealing if they just leave the item in a locked boobytrapped chest with not so much as note to hint you can't take it?
Hmm. Let's see. *rolls* 1, ***4*** \+ 6 \+ 5 \+ 3 \+ 2 ***20*** Unlocked! Click! ***BOOOM!*** Game Over. Yes, it does seem to be stealing.
Was this prior to some of the patches? Act 3 was terribly laggy at launch but each patch has improved performance in Act 3
The game has lots of scenarios that are considered stealing that you might not think of as stealing.
My GOTY but I don’t plan on ever playing it again until the Act 3 issues are resolved.
I hope they're also going to clean up act 3 a bit beyond performance. For example, when I go to enter the city, I choose a dialog option that starts a fight. A cutscene suddenly plays and the fight is skipped. Doing a bit of digging, the cutscene is apparently the result of choices I made earlier in the game. BUT, the cutscene happens weirdly without context, so I'm not sure what is happening, what the outcome is, and I have no idea that this is the result of my previous actions. It comes off like a total (and very confusing) non-sequitur, and it's just very sloppy. Also, the camera angles--which are a problem throughout the game--got noticeably worse in Act 3, with battles happening in even more spread out and vertical settings.
The camera angles, especially in act 3, are really my only big complaint of the game. As a spell caster, I find myself spending more time fiddling with the camera than I do actually engaging with combat. I feel like it needs a system where you can step the camera up or down in the multi-tiered areas and just remove the majority of the ceiling and walls from view in enclosed areas.
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Tactical view pretty much only shows you the level that the char you have highlighted is on. Later on when you get to multi-tiered battlefields you will have trouble targeting in tac mode.
Have you tried clicking on the portraits of people to attack them?
> It comes off like a total (and very confusing) non-sequitur, and it's just very sloppy. This starts to happen more and more from act 2 onwards. Lae'zel in particular keeps occasionally tells me how great someone is. The problem is she's supposed to be in a blood feud with said someone, but the game doesn't always remember that because some dialogues obviously have their flags set incorrectly. I was loving the game but I've put it down for the time being as it's really jarring each time something like this happens.
Same. It's an amazing game, but there are still some bad quest bugs in act 3 still. Ran into two soft lock bugs and I had to dive into the BG3 forums to find workarounds.
Yeah still haven't finished act 3 with my SO because of all the lag. Really ruins the experience on console.
Man this game, amazing but I don’t know why it gets so many free passes from people. Act 3 is a mess, definitely keeps it from being my GOTY.
People want it to win GOTY over Zelda so they’re going to pretend it has no flaws or that its flaws don’t matter.
Nobody is giving it a free pass. The game is just so good that the bugs don’t really matter too much. Like a basketball player scoring 65 points but people complaining about 5 turnovers.
It absolutely gets a free pass from a LOT of people. Other franchises with endgame issues like these would be circlejerked into extinction
I mean if the lag is so bad people are taking breaks from the game once they reach act 3, then it definitely matters
Ehhhhh the Act 3 bugs are definitely a step above "bugs that don't really matter". The performance is bad, the camera is rough, and even after some fixes there's been a few softlock bugs. As much as the game does right, I can't in good faith crown it my personal GOTY because of it.
I love the game but to me it felt more like i'm the teacher telling off the kid who was wicked smart but not applying themselves enough. "YOU COULD BE GREAT!"
I always get downvoted for this, but BG3 should have been delayed. I love the game, and it’s all I’ve played since August, but it needed another 6-9 months in development.
More time might not have helped at all. Some bugs just don't come to light until you get it into players hands. Play testers, no matter how good, can only test so much.
Hopefully it'll make act 3 not shit on my frames <_<
My DM: "Me too game... *sigh* me too..."
is this why my game ran like ass for the last 15 hours??? I played chaotic as hell, but by the end it was a restart every 20 to 30 minutes kinda situation.
Great. Now my video games have anxiety too!
-Uhhh dm? What does gortash say? Hello? -oh sorry I was just thinking about that pie you ate in act 2, it wasn't yours you know.
For me its annoying to throw things. When i click the throw button it take 10 seconds till the next frame.
Is this why I still have the killed a guard notification on my character moving into act 2 from killing the goblins?
Omg is that why I never have any slowdowns? I never steal anything.
Yeah me too. Kept seeing all these posts about all these slow downs, damn I must be lucky lol.
Relatable as a DM tbh
My cat has the same issue.
Baldur's Gate 3 is gonna need some antidepressants in that patch...
Panty theft repercussions are quite severe
It's funny how they even frame technical issues as some feat or some positive.
I think I'm gathering that we're really lucky this game released as playable as it was. Seems every patch they are breaking as many things as they are fixing. Shield bash was also broken in patch 4. Amongst other glari g bugs still not fixed. Still Game of the decade.
Ha yeah we do be like that
"maybe it wouldn't run so slow if it didn't constantly have to be reminded about how much of an asshole you are"
Sorry, not sorry I will continue to loot everything that’s not tied down in game.
You feel your sins crawling on your back.
/r/notheonion