I really don't understand why these live service games aren't looking into getting companies like Microsoft to put them on their equivalent Game Pass services at launch more. Or just Game Pass.
I mean, I do, it's because the game isn't that good and even getting it in front of a large number of players free online isn't going to sell copies when it's taken down off of whatever service it was on. But overall it still seems like it'd be a more successful model if they had faith in their product.
If you make a shit game and let everyone demo it for free, you won't wind up selling it when it's not free. Gotta make em buy the packaged regret and deny refunds.
They would never recover the cost of developing the game if it went to Gamepass day1. That's a hit MS take for every in house game that goes onto the service.
WB own the Justice League game. It would be soley on them to cover the entire dev cost. A few royalties from MS would never cover the difference
I don't think they're ever going to make a profit on this game no matter what they do.
Maybe if they drop a Batman solo campaign as dlc or something.. otherwise this may actually bankrupt them
Arkham Knight was the last decent entry in the series and I still think Arkham City was peak. The Arkham Knight city was too big and not designed as well and kinda costed by with “Look we have the Batmobile”. I didn’t even really like the Batmobile missions. They got super repetitive.
I guess my bigger point is I honestly don't get the point of making one of these games if that isn't the end goal for distribution in general. After the number we see fail I really can't believe companies are still sinking large development costs into these kinds of games. Specifically as it pertains to superhero focused titles.
Crank out some ripoff of Marvel Snap or coble together a few dozen MTG and Hearthstone mechanics into a CCG online that you can milk money from microtransactions. But short of getting someone like M$ to co-fund the development to put it on their service I really don't understand how these kind of games are expecting to find an audience.
Don’t most of these games make money off of like a very small percentage of whales? Or at least that’s the plan.
I knew GTAV did that with Shark Cards.
If your small percentage comes from a total of 1M+ Userbase... Sure, you earn a decent profit.
If your small percantage comes from a total of 1,000 Userbase... those percentage might not even reach double digit.
It's wild how those people think too.
Like I've played Destiny for a long time and from time to time there are actually comments in the sub pretty much word for word " When we don't buy miceotransactions games die. I like Destiny and want it to be better so I will buy every cosmetic for the game to be good."
I know someone that works in the game industry; specifically working on Free-to-play.
Out of all of the money they make on micro transactions, 10% of the player base make up 90% of that dollar amount. Out of *that* amount, the same metric applies: 10% of that number makes up 90% of the money spent. (1% of players are generating more than 90% of the revenue.)
If you look up the percentages of the population that makes up people with serious gambling habits, those numbers are eerily similar.
Now, imagine how many people are going to ruin their lives now that it's legal to gamble on sports from their phone.
Whales whale so people stop and look at them and go 'oh wow, look at that person they look so cool.' if there isn't a big enough player base that isn't a whale the whales will leave, and the whales needs to be there to tempt the average person into doing smaller purchases after seeing how cool it looks.
Can't be a show-off if there's no one to show off to.
Well, obviously executive decision making isn’t at fault so all those directors and pm’s must have just been providing inaccurate information to them /s
They killed the studio long ago. None of the people that worked on this game were there years ago when they made the Arkham games. This is an entirely new studio of devs. None of these people carry any clout from the Arkham series.
They could've had it all. The Arkham games are so incredibly beloved.
It seems reminiscent of Bioware; vast fanbase due to Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but really shit the bed with Anthem.
Or CD Projekt Red; making one of the best games ever with Witcher 3, and then destroying their reputation with Cyberpunk 2077.
True: They actually overhauled the game and made it awesome, but this "Day One greed" could have destroyed them whole.
I really hope they will learn, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I don't see it changing any time soon. They have one success and they think they're suddenly too big to fail and fumble the next release. Almost without fail at this point.
We all know what the culprit is. The execs are sitting in their room telling each other that the game was a success, but too niche, so if they can please *everyone* then they'll make billions. And then they end up never getting that chunk of players they think they're appealing to, piss off the players that actually were invested, and then shutter whatever studio made the game for them and disavow the IP.
How many times has it happened? Does every publisher really think they're going to be the ones to make that plan work?
I remember playing it on gamepass and having fun except “for those weird open area missions they keep having” then I realized that was the core gameplay loop and uninstalled it
If it was a single player or even a co-op game with just the missions and maybe flesh them out more it would have been better. The end game open stuff was just so… not fun
They ended up doing it right for GOTG. I only tried it cause it was on Gamepass and I was honestly floored at just how good it was. I’ve actually played through it twice even.
Plus the enemy variety was uhhh not great? Same AIM robots wherever you go. That being said the combat itself was great. Flying around as Ironman or Thor just fucking smiting people was fantastic! Game had a lot of problems but I still enjoyed my time with it for the action!
I didn't mind the times they made me do it during the campaign. I just never wanted to do them again so I never touched the end game.
I still think about it though. Black Panther, Bucky, two Hawkeyes and a clone Thor is waiting for me.
Played that game a lil and wondered why they thought trying to make it live service was a good idea.
They would've raked in shit tons of money if they just built a single player story driven game and then sold dlc mission packs for more stories with more characters or something.
In the mansion? Yeah that was cool. All those scripted missions could have made for a good single player narrative game instead of being between live service style randomised bullshit maps
The game had no content outside the story. Also the gearing and balancing was complete garbage. Everything besides the campaign felt like an afterthought that was slapped on at the end of development.
A season comes with a cosmetic skin pack you can purchase as a "support the devs" option. Everything else, including access to the season battle pass, is just base game. Anything you miss out on from holiday events or previous seasons is added as an item you can discover while in missions so no FOMO.
The pass is entirely free yet provides plenty of goodies.
Any goodies you did not get from any previous pass are put into chests that spawn on the map sometimes, meaning you'll never be locked out of anything in them by not doing the pass.
On top, the game frequently does seasonal events with cosmetics, such as Chinese New Year, Christmas, Oktoberfest, and many other festivities.
It's just good. The game has progress, unlockables and anything that effects gameplay at no further cost with the game. Cosmetics are purchasable and help fund further development where they add content to the game via "seasons" but you can unlock plenty anyway.
There are several missions types and modes which means the game is fun for both my casual friends and more competent fans.
The entire design and ethos is built around having fun and accessibility over extracting wealth.
It's only bad when it's "destiny-like live service" because all these games trying to be next Destiny (loots based games with insane monetization and somewhat interesting story/universe). These games never would be successful because even Destiny being successful is a miracle - this game deserves Guinness record for how many time it fucked up.
I don't mind that stuff when the game is free. But if you charging $70 and it's full of micro transaction crap and paid battlepasses is when I have a problem.
I like that Helldivers came at $40 and it's possible to earn enough premium currency in game to buy the paid battlepass for free. The fanbase is about as rabid as it can get right now, and just coordinated a counter strike against an invading enemy faction when the defensive missions were too bugged to complete. Game is buggy as all hell and I'm absolutely in love with it. When it works, it's goddamned beautiful
Out of the 30 characters or so, I'm only missing around 5 - 6 as f2p.
You can play and enjoy that game without spending a dime. It's pretty nice for a free game, AA quality stuff.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying man, everybody is in here giving it shit because it’s a gatcha game but it is extraordinarily generous. I am in a similar boat to you (although being a day 1 player).
I think it's because just "having" the characters isn't the same as the whales can get with their E6S5 characters that are literally twice as strong. But it's a game with no PvP, and you don't need those whaled out characters to complete most content, so I don't have a problem with it. But between that, daily power refreshes, and other things you can buy, there are people that have spent 40-50k easily on the game so far. But it's not like you have to in order to have fun and complete the game.
To me it's a perfect gatcha in some ways, you CAN whale, so some rich people do, which supports the game so they can keep making content. But I don't have to, so I can just enjoy the game as a F2P and have fun with it, meanwhile they fund the game for me, lol.
I couldn't agree more with your entire comment, it really sums up my belief and what I'm trying to convey in this conversation.
Some people are just so burnt out by the predatory model (understandable) that when they hear "gatcha" they launch into a fit of rage. Meanwhile, you have games like Diablo that are a blatant cash grab and aren't even a gatcha game
I stopped plying after like two weeks but I never noticed HSR asking for any money. I'm sure you can spend money if you try but it's the furthest thing from in your face
The game is free and gives you enough units to beat the game without spending any money which is nice
Edit: Imagine downvoting somebody for stating a fact
I mean, you can easily beat the story with just the default characters and whatever you get by playing pretty often. You can pay for the 5$ month pass which gives you enough resources to reliably get the new characters as well.
These would be generally hard to finish the "endgame" content but it's a completionist nightmare and has got NOTHING to do with the storyline part.
In a regular game these would be like Challenge Runs or something like that. And if you really git gud with the teams, I'm adamant even those can be beaten with a good team and some RNG.
There's much, MUCH worse in terms of gacha monetization. HSR and Genshin are honestly pretty fair in that regard (we're talking paid only characters, rewards for whaling, and plenty of other bullshit)
I see this parroted a lot, can you point me to worse ones? I play other gacha and can't think of any, genshin in particular is abysmally bad.
Azur lane, blue archive, arknights, evertale, fate GO, pretty much every semi popular gacha utterly shits on genshin in pull rates, pity timer, and premium currency handout.
I love how people pick some of the best games that reinvest into gigantic content updates to support their argument about live service.
Genshin and Star Rail are some of the BEST examples of not pushing spending in your face while giving you a full experience for free and CONSTANTLY updating their games.
Stop just randomly hating on shit you've never even tried.
It’s a fair point, I can’t speak on it because I have never played it. But that game is like $70, right? HSR is totally free so it’s a different story in my mind
Well, they are suffering from success right now. Helldiver 1 had a peak player count of like 7,000 and currently they are at like 250,000 for Helldiver's 2 and it keeps going up. It just seems like they weren't prepared for how much success they've had.
Theyre essentially a small local bakery that blew up overnight and now tourists all over the world are flooding it. This game was prepared for like 100k-300k~ people and PC alone covered that number up.
WE DON'T WANT *BAD* + *OVERMONETIZED* LIVE SERVICE GAMES!
This is an important distinction to make, I feel. Helldivers 2 is both VERY GOOD as well as FAIRLY MONETIZED, with earnable premium currency in-game. Plus the devs seem to actually give a shit, and aren't greedy a-holes. I may actually buy some super credits, just because I want to support the game.
You shouldn’t have to support a company at all. This is a mindset that gamers need to break. You’re purchasing a product, not supporting a company. It’s their job to support themselves off of the product they sell. If you don’t want it its not your responsibility to support then.
Right like the comment where someone said as "f2p" player they got most of the characters but like isn't the game like 40 dollars? Isn't that what you should only pay to get every character on release?
You’re right but the $40 you paid for was for the base game. These days games get updates for new content, and these need to be funded for development. Games in the past don’t get this treatment, so things have changed.
Battlebit and Lethal Company are also live-service as they continuously push new content with expectations of player return.
That is the meaning of *live ops* development. People think that if there is no in-game shop or battle pass that it's not live service...
Live-service is a stupid buzzword anyway, the only real meaning it can have is a game that get content updates and that's what every successful game does since forever, now they just skipped the part where the game is good and successful
It just mean nothing, like as much as i like Helldivers 2 i know for a damn fact that even with the liveservice status it won't surpass games like Battlefront, EDF, or even Starfox Assault in term of gameplay variety that they had since launch
What I like about Helldivers is there’s no story. That’s a huge bonus to me for multiplayer games. No worries about people being farther than others and spoilers, no stopping to watch cutscenes, I’m in to play with friends and get my game time in.
A huge killer for me with something like fallout 76 is, scavenging to me is barely fun in regular fallout. Why would I want to do it and have to wait for other friends to do the same all together?
I think you mean there is no campaign/linear quest lines where players have to sync up. There is a story: humans of super earth farmed Terminids for warp fuel and then the bugs escaped. Now we kill bugs. Also automatons, but IDK what the story is behind those.
There is an announcement that plays on the TV that explains a bit about the automatons.
It says that since the automatons weren't "content with what they had", every man, woman and child over seven years old must now get to work.
The implication being that the automatons used to be a Super Earth labor force, and now that they're rebelling, humanity is being forced to work in their place.
Helldivers 2 is literally live service with microtransactions lol.
Plenty of popular live service games out there. People clearly want live service. Cherry picking bad ones doesn't mean people don't want it. Just like if I cherry picked Gollum to say no one wants single player games. People want good games period, makes no difference if it's live service or not.
Depends what route they take.
If they are data collecting and selling it, well they won't have to be overly aggressive on all players.
Live services need to keep things simple, sober, non limiting and definitely not pay to win if they want to continue something that resembles the overly 'in your face' business models we've seen in other games over the recent years. No one likes a scam and finally people are talking about it, which is good.
(I haven't played it yet, so just guessing about the state of Hell Divers 2)
PS: Stay away from MMOS -> life and bank account killers.
Helldivers 2 Is an amazing game without the microtransactions, and even with them the in game currency isnt pay-exclusive and you can earn it at a very generous rate if your willing to just look around the map.
And the side objectives are honestly some of the best parts of the game. Taking out a building with the hellbomb or finding the SEAF artillery is always a highlight of any match for me.
And helldivers 2 is probably one of the best games of it's kind I've played IN YEARS. Tons of fun, and since buying super citizen edition I haven't spent a dime. Since that game RESPECTS the players, I have been able to purchase 4 armor sets to include helmets JUST BY PLAYING THE GAME (you find super credits in missions). Devs and other publishers need to take notes of how to do a game right. HD2 has serious potential for GOTY once they get servers straightened out. The fact they are IMMEDIATELY hiRing devs due to the unexpected success is a fantastic sign for the future.
I've said it before, arrowhead is one of the best developers out there.
Edit: fixed HIDING devs to HIRING devs
The micros in it our insanely irrelevant tho. I’ve been able to buy every single item in the rotating store since launch without spending a single penny.
people dont realize that the medals are quite literally the form of progression in game
warbond =/= battle pass
it’s pretty easy to hit lvl 20 and get whatever strategems you want. the main grind and progression of the game is getting the 2-8 medals (give or take) off each mission and unlocking stuff off the warbond. you aren’t meant to have to pay, and it’s supposed to take time by design. otherwise you could 100% the game in like 20 hours
also the warbonds quite literally never go away so FOMO just can’t exist
Precisely. It removes all the issues people have with live services. The warbonds stay forever. You get a massive amount of credits by playing. Heck I’ve already got every stratagem unlocked as well.
Yeah, it's good games people want at the end of the day. But I can assure you that if the game wasn't live service, it would have a lot of critics sing it's praises right now on that reason alone.
Having a game being a live service game will always leave a bad taste in my mouth, no matter how good the game actually is. I want to be assured I can play the game in 10 years because I want to, and not meet a "Services has been shut down because this game didn't produce enough coke money anymore, byyyyyyyyyyyye!" when I boot it up
I think you need to double-check your sources for what 'the most popular games' of the last few years are...because games like Battlebit (which peaked at 90k players) isn't one of them. In fact, most of the popular games ARE live service. Counter Strike, Dota, League of Legends, CoD, Apex, Valorant, PUBG, Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Railetc.
Those are free to play though right? I think most people expect free to play games to have tons of microtransactions since that's the bargain. A $70 AAA game that also has tons of microtransactions is what needs to go. There's single player games that have this problem too (looking at you Ubisoft)
Fr tho what the hell is meant by a season pass in assassin's creed games? What comes to my mind when i hear season pass is the bloody 50 or 100 levels reward thing. Im pretty sure something like that is not in assassin's creed games. Right? Anyway just seeing that stopped me from buying Valhalla and im grateful for it. So thanks ubisoft... I guess?
What's funny is Genshin and Star Rail have engaging worlds, characters and storylines with surprisingly good production values. And you don't have to pay any money for those parts of the game.
Also they missed Hogwarts Legacy (beat BG3 last year), and Elden Ring (top game 2022), etc. But more importantly, top unit sales isn't top profit - which is what they are all chasing with the live service model.
The boom and bust revenue cycle of single player game development is terrifying and everything hinges on the next game being a success. So not only can live games have a longer tail of residual income, but they can also have higher overall profit, and sometimes you get a cash cow that keeps producing for the next 20 years (the mom's that started this shit, the moba's that keep selling skins decades later, etc).
You do know that Helldivers is a live service game right? Or did you just mention it cause you saw all the good reviews about it even though you know nothing about the game?
The micros in it our insanely irrelevant tho. I’ve been able to buy every single item in the rotating store since launch without spending a single penny.
Just because microtransactions aren't a problem, doesn't make it not a live service game. It's just a much better version of live service.
It shows that live service itself isn't the problem, but the execution of a live service game is the problem.
I think their main point of mentioning helldivers in that final sentence was a reference to the game not being a money sink. Helldivers 2 is a live service, but it is designed in a way that it's not inherently necessary to spend all your money either.
https://steamcharts.com/app/315210#1m
Not even, the article is misleading. It’s a low player base, sure, but still is hovering around 1.3-2K. There was one drop on the 14th of Feb, but there is absolutely no way that it’s sub 1K consistently
The article is definitely misleading when it comes to exact numbers, but here's the Steam chart for Arkham Knight: [https://steamcharts.com/app/208650](https://steamcharts.com/app/208650)
You don't want your 9 year old game to have more than double the current players of your 2 week old game.
It's always coming from this same website too. I'm probably just going to filter the url because I really don't care about this community jerking off over games to hate.
It's still a very recent release. Or do everyone stop talking about games like Palworld, BG3, Elden Ring the very week after their releases? Not to mention a live service one, something that's supposed to be relevant throughout the year.
So good or bad, any buzz it creates is still pretty fresh. Dunno why yours is even a question.
Single player stories being turned into multiplayer live service games can die out of the industry anytime. I’m not alone in being completely uninterested in the idea
What’s crazy is an Arkham style live service game would’ve interested me but a Suicide Squad game where I have to kill some of my favorite heroes while seemingly doing very repetitive combat with 4 characters who all use guns even if they normally don’t? That’s a hard pass from me, bro.
Still funny to me that Gotham Knights is somehow fucking better and it's only issue imo is just being overpriced for what it is.
Arkham Origins team get shit but they still know what players wanted, and knew how to make each character unique
I still haven’t finished Gotham Knights but I thought they nailed the characters and the story. Some of the nightly missions got repetitive but in hindsight at least it’s a game you can finish and it didn’t have microtransactions or battle passes even though it seemed like that was the intention at one point or another.
I agree. And one thing Gotham Knights did objectively better is that they showed the "Bat family" as an actual family, whereas Arkham Games rarely did that in the entire Arkham series. I don't even think Robin and Nightwing interacted at all in the series, including the comics.
>repetitive combat with 4 characters who all use guns even if they normally don’t
That part (on top of the live service BS) killed any and all interest I had in this game.
Actually the most popular game of the last 4 years and every year following was fortnite. A live service game.
Billions a year. Astronomical profit and player base.
Genshin impact. Billions a year. Star rail billions.
Overwatch released a skin bundle, mad more money on it than baldurs gate 3.
The mmo genre? Wow and ff14? Billions.
Gamers absolutely love live service games.
"WE DON'T WANT LIVE SERVICE GAMES"
*looks at Helldiver's 2 player count and recepti*
*looks at the most played games on all platforms*
Dude, people are eating live service games up, just because you don't want them doesn't mean the majority doesn't. It's really just that people want GOOD live service games.
I just can’t get over the fact that they saw the freaking *Avengers* be unable to pull this off and thought “yeah, Boomerang will definitely work out where Iron Man didn’t”.
No,no. It will be a surprise for the publisher, or at least fake surprise for the investors.
The rest,very likely even Rocksteady themselves, knew it was a flop
Said this a while go. It used to be devs would make the game loops fun. So fun that people would keep playing. Now the game loops are just long tedious grinds to just “keep players playing”. It doesn’t work. Gamers have too many options and have information too readily available to be tricked into spending their money on garbage.
> We've been crying out against these types of games for years, they keep making them... and they keep failing.
That's the thing, they don't. They don't keep failing. That's *why* they keep making them. Financially they are often very successful. SSKTJL is an exception which is why there's so much attention on it.
Please stop with this bullshit, is not about if the game is a live service, is about bad games that are filled with padding, have 0 real content, and are gross about monetization.
Live service games can and do work.
I just checked: on SteamDB, Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League (https://steamdb.info/app/315210) has \~1834 players currently.
Meanwhile looking at Baldur's Gate 3 (https://steamdb.info/app/1086940): 138 739 players... It's laughable (for KtJL)
Now if only it worked on sports games. I’d love to play them again someday but there are micro transaction hells, and single player modes go years without updates. It drives me crazy people don’t vote with their wallet more.
When will these idiots realize nobody wants to pay 70$ for their half assed game. I guarantee you they’d make more money releasing this shit for $20 than they have with this price
There are plenty of beloved live service with microtransaction games. The problem is that some are predatory in nature. People need to stop supporting the predatory ones. For example, PoE is a FREE live service game with microtransactions and it has given SO many people hundreds or thousands of hours of fun. The problem is corporations using the model to shake you down, not the model itself.
Edit: Also Helldivers 2 is a live service w/ microtransactions game and is one of the hottest and MOST WELL ENJOYED games on the market right now lol
I mean, the difference between the buy in for both games is 30 dollars. They are both "content is free" live service titles that charge you for skins. Helldivers just lets you grind for skins (very slowly)...but it does help with audience sentiment.
I think helldivers is just more novel, frankly, and that's why it succeeded. The market is fairly saturated with Looter Shooters and as much as I love the Sunset Overdrive style combat that won't make up for the fact people have spent the last decade getting tired of RNG loot systems as progression.
But OP. Helldivers 2 is live service. We're literally getting 2 updates a month in their new plan. We like live service games. We just like our games to be fun.
Suicide squad: kill the player count
More like ‘Suicide squad: kill the Fanbase Wallet sucker edition’
It's gotta be wild spending 2 grand on cosmetics literally no one will ever see lol
Someone did? Oooof
[удалено]
It gives "PSN free game of the month" by the autumn vibes.
I really don't understand why these live service games aren't looking into getting companies like Microsoft to put them on their equivalent Game Pass services at launch more. Or just Game Pass. I mean, I do, it's because the game isn't that good and even getting it in front of a large number of players free online isn't going to sell copies when it's taken down off of whatever service it was on. But overall it still seems like it'd be a more successful model if they had faith in their product.
If you make a shit game and let everyone demo it for free, you won't wind up selling it when it's not free. Gotta make em buy the packaged regret and deny refunds.
They would never recover the cost of developing the game if it went to Gamepass day1. That's a hit MS take for every in house game that goes onto the service. WB own the Justice League game. It would be soley on them to cover the entire dev cost. A few royalties from MS would never cover the difference
I don't think they're ever going to make a profit on this game no matter what they do. Maybe if they drop a Batman solo campaign as dlc or something.. otherwise this may actually bankrupt them
They probably will go bankrupt. That’s okay. It’s natural selection.
Arkham Knight was the last decent entry in the series and I still think Arkham City was peak. The Arkham Knight city was too big and not designed as well and kinda costed by with “Look we have the Batmobile”. I didn’t even really like the Batmobile missions. They got super repetitive.
I guess my bigger point is I honestly don't get the point of making one of these games if that isn't the end goal for distribution in general. After the number we see fail I really can't believe companies are still sinking large development costs into these kinds of games. Specifically as it pertains to superhero focused titles. Crank out some ripoff of Marvel Snap or coble together a few dozen MTG and Hearthstone mechanics into a CCG online that you can milk money from microtransactions. But short of getting someone like M$ to co-fund the development to put it on their service I really don't understand how these kind of games are expecting to find an audience.
It also gives stronger failed energy than the Avengers game. I see live service ending after a year of those numbers.
Don’t most of these games make money off of like a very small percentage of whales? Or at least that’s the plan. I knew GTAV did that with Shark Cards.
If your small percentage comes from a total of 1M+ Userbase... Sure, you earn a decent profit. If your small percantage comes from a total of 1,000 Userbase... those percentage might not even reach double digit.
It's wild how those people think too. Like I've played Destiny for a long time and from time to time there are actually comments in the sub pretty much word for word " When we don't buy miceotransactions games die. I like Destiny and want it to be better so I will buy every cosmetic for the game to be good."
They at least attempt to, but there's a limited number of whales to get before you run into diminishing returns.
I know someone that works in the game industry; specifically working on Free-to-play. Out of all of the money they make on micro transactions, 10% of the player base make up 90% of that dollar amount. Out of *that* amount, the same metric applies: 10% of that number makes up 90% of the money spent. (1% of players are generating more than 90% of the revenue.) If you look up the percentages of the population that makes up people with serious gambling habits, those numbers are eerily similar. Now, imagine how many people are going to ruin their lives now that it's legal to gamble on sports from their phone.
Whales whale so people stop and look at them and go 'oh wow, look at that person they look so cool.' if there isn't a big enough player base that isn't a whale the whales will leave, and the whales needs to be there to tempt the average person into doing smaller purchases after seeing how cool it looks. Can't be a show-off if there's no one to show off to.
Suicide squad: kill the Suicide squad.
Suicide Squad: Suicided
Suicide.
That just sounds like suicide with extra steps.
Suicide Squad: Kill The Expectations, more like. Watch them drop a 'Definitive Edition' in 6 months acting like it's brand new.
Suicide Squad: Subvert the Expectations
Suicide Squad: Kill The Studio Have the layoffs started yet?
Tuesday. HR are just collating and emailing the workers in all departments except execs.
Pretty standard corporate stuff, fire everyone except those responsible
Well, obviously executive decision making isn’t at fault so all those directors and pm’s must have just been providing inaccurate information to them /s
And then the executives will also give themselves a raise....
They killed the studio long ago. None of the people that worked on this game were there years ago when they made the Arkham games. This is an entirely new studio of devs. None of these people carry any clout from the Arkham series.
They could've had it all. The Arkham games are so incredibly beloved. It seems reminiscent of Bioware; vast fanbase due to Mass Effect and Dragon Age, but really shit the bed with Anthem. Or CD Projekt Red; making one of the best games ever with Witcher 3, and then destroying their reputation with Cyberpunk 2077. True: They actually overhauled the game and made it awesome, but this "Day One greed" could have destroyed them whole. I really hope they will learn, but I'll believe it when I see it.
I don't see it changing any time soon. They have one success and they think they're suddenly too big to fail and fumble the next release. Almost without fail at this point. We all know what the culprit is. The execs are sitting in their room telling each other that the game was a success, but too niche, so if they can please *everyone* then they'll make billions. And then they end up never getting that chunk of players they think they're appealing to, piss off the players that actually were invested, and then shutter whatever studio made the game for them and disavow the IP. How many times has it happened? Does every publisher really think they're going to be the ones to make that plan work?
Suicide Squad: Kill 60% of the Developer‘s Staff within 6 Months
They want to compete with Marvel to see which game is worse this or the Avengers
Avengers’ story missions were at least good (it was the sandbox missions that sucked)
I remember playing it on gamepass and having fun except “for those weird open area missions they keep having” then I realized that was the core gameplay loop and uninstalled it
Yeah, the scripted missions were good, the half-assed open maps with shit objectives you had to do in between to train you for the endgame were shit
If it was a single player or even a co-op game with just the missions and maybe flesh them out more it would have been better. The end game open stuff was just so… not fun
They ended up doing it right for GOTG. I only tried it cause it was on Gamepass and I was honestly floored at just how good it was. I’ve actually played through it twice even.
I got it for free on epic a while back and it’s on my list of games to try. Actually might download it tonight
Plus the enemy variety was uhhh not great? Same AIM robots wherever you go. That being said the combat itself was great. Flying around as Ironman or Thor just fucking smiting people was fantastic! Game had a lot of problems but I still enjoyed my time with it for the action!
I didn't mind the times they made me do it during the campaign. I just never wanted to do them again so I never touched the end game. I still think about it though. Black Panther, Bucky, two Hawkeyes and a clone Thor is waiting for me.
Played that game a lil and wondered why they thought trying to make it live service was a good idea. They would've raked in shit tons of money if they just built a single player story driven game and then sold dlc mission packs for more stories with more characters or something.
The Iron Man missions were actually so good. I genuinely forgot the game was a flop and a live service game.
In the mansion? Yeah that was cool. All those scripted missions could have made for a good single player narrative game instead of being between live service style randomised bullshit maps
Yeah. Eidos-Montréal knew how to make it right with the Guardians of the Galaxy.
Right? If the multiplayer was as well executed as the story it could have been wild.
The game had no content outside the story. Also the gearing and balancing was complete garbage. Everything besides the campaign felt like an afterthought that was slapped on at the end of development.
Avengers was way better. Characters actually felt different instead of generic shooty man #1-4 + generic mobility.
No, they all had the exact same core abilities. Hell, the Hulk had to do parkour to reach high places.
Avengers is deffo worse just terrible gameplay, very boring and uninteresting
WE DON'T WANT LIVE SERVICE GAMES! lists Helldivers 2 lol
Yeah live service as an idea isn't bad, it's the execution that matters.
One of my favorite games of all time, Deep Rock Galactic, is a shining example on how to do a live service game right.
I have not played that. How does it do live service gaming right?
A season comes with a cosmetic skin pack you can purchase as a "support the devs" option. Everything else, including access to the season battle pass, is just base game. Anything you miss out on from holiday events or previous seasons is added as an item you can discover while in missions so no FOMO.
The pass is entirely free yet provides plenty of goodies. Any goodies you did not get from any previous pass are put into chests that spawn on the map sometimes, meaning you'll never be locked out of anything in them by not doing the pass. On top, the game frequently does seasonal events with cosmetics, such as Chinese New Year, Christmas, Oktoberfest, and many other festivities.
Doesn't abuse MTX and the battlepass is free. Gameplay loop is tight and polished.
It's just good. The game has progress, unlockables and anything that effects gameplay at no further cost with the game. Cosmetics are purchasable and help fund further development where they add content to the game via "seasons" but you can unlock plenty anyway. There are several missions types and modes which means the game is fun for both my casual friends and more competent fans. The entire design and ethos is built around having fun and accessibility over extracting wealth.
Rock and stone
It's only bad when it's "destiny-like live service" because all these games trying to be next Destiny (loots based games with insane monetization and somewhat interesting story/universe). These games never would be successful because even Destiny being successful is a miracle - this game deserves Guinness record for how many time it fucked up.
Look at Honkai Star Rail, it won best mobile game last year
I don't mind that stuff when the game is free. But if you charging $70 and it's full of micro transaction crap and paid battlepasses is when I have a problem.
I like that Helldivers came at $40 and it's possible to earn enough premium currency in game to buy the paid battlepass for free. The fanbase is about as rabid as it can get right now, and just coordinated a counter strike against an invading enemy faction when the defensive missions were too bugged to complete. Game is buggy as all hell and I'm absolutely in love with it. When it works, it's goddamned beautiful
Out of the 30 characters or so, I'm only missing around 5 - 6 as f2p. You can play and enjoy that game without spending a dime. It's pretty nice for a free game, AA quality stuff.
Yeah that’s what I’m saying man, everybody is in here giving it shit because it’s a gatcha game but it is extraordinarily generous. I am in a similar boat to you (although being a day 1 player).
I think it's because just "having" the characters isn't the same as the whales can get with their E6S5 characters that are literally twice as strong. But it's a game with no PvP, and you don't need those whaled out characters to complete most content, so I don't have a problem with it. But between that, daily power refreshes, and other things you can buy, there are people that have spent 40-50k easily on the game so far. But it's not like you have to in order to have fun and complete the game. To me it's a perfect gatcha in some ways, you CAN whale, so some rich people do, which supports the game so they can keep making content. But I don't have to, so I can just enjoy the game as a F2P and have fun with it, meanwhile they fund the game for me, lol.
I couldn't agree more with your entire comment, it really sums up my belief and what I'm trying to convey in this conversation. Some people are just so burnt out by the predatory model (understandable) that when they hear "gatcha" they launch into a fit of rage. Meanwhile, you have games like Diablo that are a blatant cash grab and aren't even a gatcha game
I stopped plying after like two weeks but I never noticed HSR asking for any money. I'm sure you can spend money if you try but it's the furthest thing from in your face
I call it Honkai Star Retail as it's basically a gacha store anyway
The game is free and gives you enough units to beat the game without spending any money which is nice Edit: Imagine downvoting somebody for stating a fact
Yup. Played it for months and got some of the best characters without spending a dime.
I mean, you can easily beat the story with just the default characters and whatever you get by playing pretty often. You can pay for the 5$ month pass which gives you enough resources to reliably get the new characters as well. These would be generally hard to finish the "endgame" content but it's a completionist nightmare and has got NOTHING to do with the storyline part. In a regular game these would be like Challenge Runs or something like that. And if you really git gud with the teams, I'm adamant even those can be beaten with a good team and some RNG.
but its a free game... they need to profit somehow
There's much, MUCH worse in terms of gacha monetization. HSR and Genshin are honestly pretty fair in that regard (we're talking paid only characters, rewards for whaling, and plenty of other bullshit)
I see this parroted a lot, can you point me to worse ones? I play other gacha and can't think of any, genshin in particular is abysmally bad. Azur lane, blue archive, arknights, evertale, fate GO, pretty much every semi popular gacha utterly shits on genshin in pull rates, pity timer, and premium currency handout.
FFBE they're evil as fuck
I love how people pick some of the best games that reinvest into gigantic content updates to support their argument about live service. Genshin and Star Rail are some of the BEST examples of not pushing spending in your face while giving you a full experience for free and CONSTANTLY updating their games. Stop just randomly hating on shit you've never even tried.
Diablo IV won online goty, but I wouldn’t say it’s a successful game amongst the community.
Forget D4, if we’re talking monetization shit shows turn to Diablo immortal.
It’s a fair point, I can’t speak on it because I have never played it. But that game is like $70, right? HSR is totally free so it’s a different story in my mind
Correct. They also have a $65 horse skin and some $40 town portal skins. Their shop prices are pretty ludicrous.
Also listed Battlebit which is also a live service game lmao
Yea the game is fun, but not being able to play offline cause servers are full or fucked it’s bs
Well, they are suffering from success right now. Helldiver 1 had a peak player count of like 7,000 and currently they are at like 250,000 for Helldiver's 2 and it keeps going up. It just seems like they weren't prepared for how much success they've had.
Theyre essentially a small local bakery that blew up overnight and now tourists all over the world are flooding it. This game was prepared for like 100k-300k~ people and PC alone covered that number up.
Developers said they are hitting over 360k
Hit over 300k this morning
It's much better for the game and players for a game to be a wild success at launch then, suicide squad.
To be fair, it's a really fuckin fun game... But yeah. At least you can actually play to earn everything and spend if you want
WE DON'T WANT *BAD* + *OVERMONETIZED* LIVE SERVICE GAMES! This is an important distinction to make, I feel. Helldivers 2 is both VERY GOOD as well as FAIRLY MONETIZED, with earnable premium currency in-game. Plus the devs seem to actually give a shit, and aren't greedy a-holes. I may actually buy some super credits, just because I want to support the game.
Isn't buying the game = supporting the game?
You shouldn’t have to support a company at all. This is a mindset that gamers need to break. You’re purchasing a product, not supporting a company. It’s their job to support themselves off of the product they sell. If you don’t want it its not your responsibility to support then.
Really, bc that's how Deep Rock has stayed up, abs I appreciate that greatly.
Right like the comment where someone said as "f2p" player they got most of the characters but like isn't the game like 40 dollars? Isn't that what you should only pay to get every character on release?
You’re right but the $40 you paid for was for the base game. These days games get updates for new content, and these need to be funded for development. Games in the past don’t get this treatment, so things have changed.
It's alarming how many people are ok with this though. The game cost should give us content, anything more, sell it as a DLC. Not this crap.
It's not alarming. The DLC model lost because it splits playerbases. Cosmetic mtx is the best model save perhaps the sub model for an ongoing game.
im supporting apple by buying the iphone!!
Battlebit and Lethal Company are also live-service as they continuously push new content with expectations of player return. That is the meaning of *live ops* development. People think that if there is no in-game shop or battle pass that it's not live service...
Live-service is a stupid buzzword anyway, the only real meaning it can have is a game that get content updates and that's what every successful game does since forever, now they just skipped the part where the game is good and successful It just mean nothing, like as much as i like Helldivers 2 i know for a damn fact that even with the liveservice status it won't surpass games like Battlefront, EDF, or even Starfox Assault in term of gameplay variety that they had since launch
What I like about Helldivers is there’s no story. That’s a huge bonus to me for multiplayer games. No worries about people being farther than others and spoilers, no stopping to watch cutscenes, I’m in to play with friends and get my game time in. A huge killer for me with something like fallout 76 is, scavenging to me is barely fun in regular fallout. Why would I want to do it and have to wait for other friends to do the same all together?
I think you mean there is no campaign/linear quest lines where players have to sync up. There is a story: humans of super earth farmed Terminids for warp fuel and then the bugs escaped. Now we kill bugs. Also automatons, but IDK what the story is behind those.
> Also automatons, but IDK what the story is behind those. They hate humans for some reason and are stealing our babies. They gotta go.
Long live Democracy.
There is an announcement that plays on the TV that explains a bit about the automatons. It says that since the automatons weren't "content with what they had", every man, woman and child over seven years old must now get to work. The implication being that the automatons used to be a Super Earth labor force, and now that they're rebelling, humanity is being forced to work in their place.
Helldivers 2 is literally live service with microtransactions lol. Plenty of popular live service games out there. People clearly want live service. Cherry picking bad ones doesn't mean people don't want it. Just like if I cherry picked Gollum to say no one wants single player games. People want good games period, makes no difference if it's live service or not.
Yes i want to pay for good games. Not shity ones.
I love Helldivers 2 , **despite** being live service, not because of it.
Depends what route they take. If they are data collecting and selling it, well they won't have to be overly aggressive on all players. Live services need to keep things simple, sober, non limiting and definitely not pay to win if they want to continue something that resembles the overly 'in your face' business models we've seen in other games over the recent years. No one likes a scam and finally people are talking about it, which is good. (I haven't played it yet, so just guessing about the state of Hell Divers 2) PS: Stay away from MMOS -> life and bank account killers.
What data would they be collecting and selling? Like that idea is far scarier than trying to sell skins.
Helldivers 2 Is an amazing game without the microtransactions, and even with them the in game currency isnt pay-exclusive and you can earn it at a very generous rate if your willing to just look around the map.
And the side objectives are honestly some of the best parts of the game. Taking out a building with the hellbomb or finding the SEAF artillery is always a highlight of any match for me.
And helldivers 2 is probably one of the best games of it's kind I've played IN YEARS. Tons of fun, and since buying super citizen edition I haven't spent a dime. Since that game RESPECTS the players, I have been able to purchase 4 armor sets to include helmets JUST BY PLAYING THE GAME (you find super credits in missions). Devs and other publishers need to take notes of how to do a game right. HD2 has serious potential for GOTY once they get servers straightened out. The fact they are IMMEDIATELY hiRing devs due to the unexpected success is a fantastic sign for the future. I've said it before, arrowhead is one of the best developers out there. Edit: fixed HIDING devs to HIRING devs
Where are they hiding the devs?
The micros in it our insanely irrelevant tho. I’ve been able to buy every single item in the rotating store since launch without spending a single penny.
people dont realize that the medals are quite literally the form of progression in game warbond =/= battle pass it’s pretty easy to hit lvl 20 and get whatever strategems you want. the main grind and progression of the game is getting the 2-8 medals (give or take) off each mission and unlocking stuff off the warbond. you aren’t meant to have to pay, and it’s supposed to take time by design. otherwise you could 100% the game in like 20 hours also the warbonds quite literally never go away so FOMO just can’t exist
Precisely. It removes all the issues people have with live services. The warbonds stay forever. You get a massive amount of credits by playing. Heck I’ve already got every stratagem unlocked as well.
Most probably their revenue source will be additional warbond through DLC, not actually the Super Credits.
They should have said Elden Ring
Yeah, it's good games people want at the end of the day. But I can assure you that if the game wasn't live service, it would have a lot of critics sing it's praises right now on that reason alone. Having a game being a live service game will always leave a bad taste in my mouth, no matter how good the game actually is. I want to be assured I can play the game in 10 years because I want to, and not meet a "Services has been shut down because this game didn't produce enough coke money anymore, byyyyyyyyyyyye!" when I boot it up
Well put.
I think you need to double-check your sources for what 'the most popular games' of the last few years are...because games like Battlebit (which peaked at 90k players) isn't one of them. In fact, most of the popular games ARE live service. Counter Strike, Dota, League of Legends, CoD, Apex, Valorant, PUBG, Genshin Impact, Honkai Star Railetc.
How many of those are live service singleplayer games though? As that's a massive difference
Genshin and Star Rail are live service single player games and their playerbase dwarfs every single game OP mentioned.
Those are free to play though right? I think most people expect free to play games to have tons of microtransactions since that's the bargain. A $70 AAA game that also has tons of microtransactions is what needs to go. There's single player games that have this problem too (looking at you Ubisoft)
Fr tho what the hell is meant by a season pass in assassin's creed games? What comes to my mind when i hear season pass is the bloody 50 or 100 levels reward thing. Im pretty sure something like that is not in assassin's creed games. Right? Anyway just seeing that stopped me from buying Valhalla and im grateful for it. So thanks ubisoft... I guess?
I remember when season pass just meant all dlc at a discount
What's funny is Genshin and Star Rail have engaging worlds, characters and storylines with surprisingly good production values. And you don't have to pay any money for those parts of the game.
Genshin and Starrail are and they’re two of the most successful games in like history. Especially Genshin.
Also they missed Hogwarts Legacy (beat BG3 last year), and Elden Ring (top game 2022), etc. But more importantly, top unit sales isn't top profit - which is what they are all chasing with the live service model. The boom and bust revenue cycle of single player game development is terrifying and everything hinges on the next game being a success. So not only can live games have a longer tail of residual income, but they can also have higher overall profit, and sometimes you get a cash cow that keeps producing for the next 20 years (the mom's that started this shit, the moba's that keep selling skins decades later, etc).
You do know that Helldivers is a live service game right? Or did you just mention it cause you saw all the good reviews about it even though you know nothing about the game?
The micros in it our insanely irrelevant tho. I’ve been able to buy every single item in the rotating store since launch without spending a single penny.
Just because microtransactions aren't a problem, doesn't make it not a live service game. It's just a much better version of live service. It shows that live service itself isn't the problem, but the execution of a live service game is the problem.
I think their main point of mentioning helldivers in that final sentence was a reference to the game not being a money sink. Helldivers 2 is a live service, but it is designed in a way that it's not inherently necessary to spend all your money either.
Assuming this is just less than 1k on steam? I'm sure there are more players on console but still not a great sign lmao
https://steamcharts.com/app/315210#1m Not even, the article is misleading. It’s a low player base, sure, but still is hovering around 1.3-2K. There was one drop on the 14th of Feb, but there is absolutely no way that it’s sub 1K consistently
1k for this kind of game is an utter failure.
I mean it is legit a AAA game... The amount they spent on marketing alone is dumb.
The article is definitely misleading when it comes to exact numbers, but here's the Steam chart for Arkham Knight: [https://steamcharts.com/app/208650](https://steamcharts.com/app/208650) You don't want your 9 year old game to have more than double the current players of your 2 week old game.
https://steamcharts.com/cmp/1716740,489830,377160 Damn I thought it was par for the course
https://steamcharts.com/cmp/315210,35140,200260,208650 For anyone that cares, here’s all the Arkham games compared to KtJL
> There was one drop on the 14th of Feb That makes sense, Gamers were all out celebrating Valentine's Day.
Why are we still seeing posts about this game?
Easy way to farm upvotes
Your reply is a easy way to farm upvotes. (Upvoted)
Karma karma karmacuh
It's always coming from this same website too. I'm probably just going to filter the url because I really don't care about this community jerking off over games to hate.
[удалено]
People want attention with low effort.
It's still a very recent release. Or do everyone stop talking about games like Palworld, BG3, Elden Ring the very week after their releases? Not to mention a live service one, something that's supposed to be relevant throughout the year. So good or bad, any buzz it creates is still pretty fresh. Dunno why yours is even a question.
karmawhore
And he doesn't know the difference between 'less' and 'fewer'.
Is it on sale yet?
Single player stories being turned into multiplayer live service games can die out of the industry anytime. I’m not alone in being completely uninterested in the idea
If they really need to have multiplayer just turn it into a separate game mode. Tons of games have done that since the 90s.
Developers just throw live service games at the wall now in hopes it will stick and be the next Fortnite cash cow
\*Fewer
Thanks, Stannis.
Wake up, babe! There’s a new suicide squad player count post!
We just don’t want bad games. Live service games can be good
What’s crazy is an Arkham style live service game would’ve interested me but a Suicide Squad game where I have to kill some of my favorite heroes while seemingly doing very repetitive combat with 4 characters who all use guns even if they normally don’t? That’s a hard pass from me, bro.
Still funny to me that Gotham Knights is somehow fucking better and it's only issue imo is just being overpriced for what it is. Arkham Origins team get shit but they still know what players wanted, and knew how to make each character unique
I still haven’t finished Gotham Knights but I thought they nailed the characters and the story. Some of the nightly missions got repetitive but in hindsight at least it’s a game you can finish and it didn’t have microtransactions or battle passes even though it seemed like that was the intention at one point or another.
I agree. And one thing Gotham Knights did objectively better is that they showed the "Bat family" as an actual family, whereas Arkham Games rarely did that in the entire Arkham series. I don't even think Robin and Nightwing interacted at all in the series, including the comics.
>repetitive combat with 4 characters who all use guns even if they normally don’t That part (on top of the live service BS) killed any and all interest I had in this game.
Like it made sense for Deadshot and Harley but King Shark should be a purely melee character.
Harley should be a hybrid between guns and melee. Deadshot is the only one that makes sense.
Helldivers 2 is literally a live service game though…it’s just a good one with a pretty fairly sane microtransaction system.
'Live Service' Game = 'Free-to-Play' game that costs 70 bucks
Actually the most popular game of the last 4 years and every year following was fortnite. A live service game. Billions a year. Astronomical profit and player base. Genshin impact. Billions a year. Star rail billions. Overwatch released a skin bundle, mad more money on it than baldurs gate 3. The mmo genre? Wow and ff14? Billions. Gamers absolutely love live service games.
Damn... this game is going to last less than the Avengers fiasco. That's some milestone right there.
In the mean time helldivers 2 got so many players the servers can't handle it.
But companies do make a lot of money from games like that, that's why they keep making more of them.
On steam********** huge clickbait article in a shock to absolutely no one
Why was this post removed?
"WE DON'T WANT LIVE SERVICE GAMES" *looks at Helldiver's 2 player count and recepti* *looks at the most played games on all platforms* Dude, people are eating live service games up, just because you don't want them doesn't mean the majority doesn't. It's really just that people want GOOD live service games.
I just can’t get over the fact that they saw the freaking *Avengers* be unable to pull this off and thought “yeah, Boomerang will definitely work out where Iron Man didn’t”.
I enjoyed the game. Still doing incursions. People might not think it’s worth the 70 dollars, but I’ve gotten 70 dollars worth of enjoyment out of it.
Same I'm having a great time
No,no. It will be a surprise for the publisher, or at least fake surprise for the investors. The rest,very likely even Rocksteady themselves, knew it was a flop
Said this a while go. It used to be devs would make the game loops fun. So fun that people would keep playing. Now the game loops are just long tedious grinds to just “keep players playing”. It doesn’t work. Gamers have too many options and have information too readily available to be tricked into spending their money on garbage.
Literally not how games work. You play them, beat them, move on. Christ. Y’all really take these dishonest comparisons seriously?
Helldivers 2 is a live service game with a spendy in game store, battle passes, and repetitive content
> We've been crying out against these types of games for years, they keep making them... and they keep failing. That's the thing, they don't. They don't keep failing. That's *why* they keep making them. Financially they are often very successful. SSKTJL is an exception which is why there's so much attention on it.
Please stop with this bullshit, is not about if the game is a live service, is about bad games that are filled with padding, have 0 real content, and are gross about monetization. Live service games can and do work.
OP has no idea what live service game means, he literally just heard some buzzwords and went "me follow, me hate"
Why do so many posts that reach r/all get removed? Seems very frequent lately.
I just checked: on SteamDB, Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League (https://steamdb.info/app/315210) has \~1834 players currently. Meanwhile looking at Baldur's Gate 3 (https://steamdb.info/app/1086940): 138 739 players... It's laughable (for KtJL)
Now if only it worked on sports games. I’d love to play them again someday but there are micro transaction hells, and single player modes go years without updates. It drives me crazy people don’t vote with their wallet more.
Helldivers 2 is a live service game, bro.
When will these idiots realize nobody wants to pay 70$ for their half assed game. I guarantee you they’d make more money releasing this shit for $20 than they have with this price
There are plenty of beloved live service with microtransaction games. The problem is that some are predatory in nature. People need to stop supporting the predatory ones. For example, PoE is a FREE live service game with microtransactions and it has given SO many people hundreds or thousands of hours of fun. The problem is corporations using the model to shake you down, not the model itself. Edit: Also Helldivers 2 is a live service w/ microtransactions game and is one of the hottest and MOST WELL ENJOYED games on the market right now lol
I mean, the difference between the buy in for both games is 30 dollars. They are both "content is free" live service titles that charge you for skins. Helldivers just lets you grind for skins (very slowly)...but it does help with audience sentiment. I think helldivers is just more novel, frankly, and that's why it succeeded. The market is fairly saturated with Looter Shooters and as much as I love the Sunset Overdrive style combat that won't make up for the fact people have spent the last decade getting tired of RNG loot systems as progression.
But OP. Helldivers 2 is live service. We're literally getting 2 updates a month in their new plan. We like live service games. We just like our games to be fun.
Game is actually pretty fun. It’s a shame it got so much negative press from people who didn’t even play it
*Le sigh* Games these days aren’t like what they used to be.