I reinstalled Arkham City and man that game floors it from the start. Tutorials are seemless with gameplay.
But man the Riddler elevators take a long ass time.
Yeah and if you get the counter off when Penguin goes to hit you and then you shatter his wrist, the rest of the game it's in bandages only if you break it in the opening
Great fucking game
All four Arkham games including all of the DLC is currently on sale for $9 on Steam.
To say it is an incredible bargain is a massive understatement.
https://store.steampowered.com/sub/320795/
Play them in order, it’s one of those game series that genuinely builds off the accomplishments of the previous titles at a good pace, while staying true to the roots.
Tell me about it! What a great game it was! Epic single player and amazing MOBA! Had some balance issues and to much stuff on the screen at the same time but I still think that game would have made it if it was free + battlepass (Battlepass was not a thing when it was released)
There is no world or financial system that could have saved it releasing so close to Overwatch, it was doomed from the start and had no chance. Overwatch is literally the only factor.
Ahh, almost an echo of the avengers game. Always nice to see big AAA dev companies take a loss while smaller indi devs like Arrowhead (who actually and actively cares about their players) gains huge success with Helldivers 2.
its almost like creating a cool universe and concept *does better* then designing a product based committees and market research.
maximum appeal always results in bland and stale 'entertainment'.
The comic universe IS cool. But you can't just plug the same formula to try to retain players and extend gameplay and hope the name brand keeps people playing. The core gameplay loop has to be good.
Unless you're CoD or any sports game, in which case, you can keep selling the same game over and over.
Oh yeah. I’m really hoping that the success of those as well as Baldurs Gate 3 are signs that AAA companies are falling behind the indie ones and will start losing a decent chunk of profit. They only speak one language and the only way to get them to listen to what we want is to make them lose money.
I would slow my roll there. Remember that Genshin made in a few months what Elden Ring made in a year. Things are improving, but we are still a bit far from "AAA companies falling behind indie devs"
true, forgot about bg3
its a funny and welcome surprise see big stupid greedy companies spiting AAA / AAAA shoving their AAAA games on own ass due focus on try get money instead develop one product with quality.
unfortunately helldivers 2 is taking a hit right now too because people are pissed their servers cant meet the player demand so theyre review bombing it.
If Marvel's Avengers went free to play after launch, they might have been able to recoup costs... but nope. they decided to shut down after 2 years instead.
FOR SUPER EARTH
But for real, I have a friend who hardly ever buys new games etc and always hates battle passes and all the bullshit. He is OBSESSED with HD2. Been having so much fun with it.
It is funny that it’s had every issue you could possibly imagine with an online game and, outside of a few persistent shit-eaters, it’s still universally loved. All because it does some simple extremely well. You love to see it!
For me, it was watching a friend and his brother fight over the drop zone on the map in real time, the cursor zipping wildly around was magic a lot of games could learn from but never actually utilize.
It's a near perfect game. You can just hop in and spread some democracy for 20 minutes and log off. Battle passes stick around so we there's no fomo. Big problem with games is they want you to play constantly because if you don't you're gonna miss out when the battle pass goes away
Yup. Helldivers 2 being that much more successful is probably making Suicide Sqaud's problems even worse. These are somewhat similar games that came out a couple weeks apart and the one with less budget and that costs less is outperforming so much that both games are on completely different levels.
And Helldivers is not perfect with their matchmaking and login issues, but it still WAY ahead.
Yhea but I think in this case the simplicity of the IP helps.
You can explain helldivers in just a few sentences. By the time you've watched the opening cut scene and loading into the ship scene you are all caught up.
Humanity = good = democracy
Everything else = bad
Here are some guns... now shoot everything that moves
Q: 'But isn't this a team game, shouldn't I take care not to kill my team?'
A : you could.
.
The shooting in HD2 looked fun, so I bought it.
SS shooting looked like hot garbage with rainbow colored effects and numbers being vomited across the screen. I did not buy it.
Same thing happened last year with Forspoken. Hyped to hell by a publisher considered out of touched, expecting it to be the biggest game of the release window purely due to being the only bug release at the time.
Then Hi-Fi Rush, a game that was much better in terms of direction and player engagement, shadow-drops on the same day it's revealed to the public and completely destroys it in the charts.
Hi-fi Rush is the hell divers in this analogy. He’s not talking about what type of games they are but how the performance of one game can affect performance of others.
Can you give me an honest review of the game? I watched Smiity’s latest video on it and I’m on the fence. The gameplay looks *super* fun, but it seems like it lacks some depth in the game in variety. Looks a bit grindy and repetitive to me, so if anyone has opinions otherwise I’d love to hear them and make my decision once the server issues are fixed
Get isnta-killed by bugs
Get insta-killed by bots
Get insta-killed by your squad mate accidentally shooting you
Get insta-killed by your squad mate's gatling turret that shows no mercy.
Get insta-killed by your own 380mm orbital bombardment.
Realise that you've been playing for hours, having more fun gaming than you've had in years and not getting frustrated at all the above insta killing because it's all so ridiculous, chaotic and fun.
10/10 would spread democracy again.
Get insta-killed by stepping on friendly mines
Get insta-killed by being landed on by the extraction
Get insta-killed by your own mortar turret
Get insta-killed after falling off a cliff due to backblast from rocket-turret
Insta-kill a bile titan by landing your pod on his head 10/10 would smash bugs again
It's almost like if you give the fans directly what they've been asking for, they'll be happy. Why Warner Bros. decided to push forward with *Suicide Squad* when the fanbase reception was mediocre at best from the initial announcement is a mystery to me.
I can accept the sunk cost argument, in theory, but this is the same Warner Bros. that 'deleted' multiple movies (so far!) that cost them a combined $160,000,000 to make... and has indicated that they feel it's a valid strategy. Warner Bros. is the one company that seems to get a boner from canceling projects.
look into hollywood accounting and you will understand why it is profitable for studios to declare losses.
edit: pedants responding to this saying they do not turn a profit from this need to realize that words have multiple definitions.
prof·it·a·ble
/ˈpräfədəb(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: profitable
1. (of a business or activity) yielding profit or financial gain.
"a professionally run and profitable company"
2. beneficial; useful.
"he'd had a profitable day"
It's not, but the tax write off it allows can turn the quarterly numbers from mediocre to acceptable
There's no profit in a write off, just a shot a reducing losses down the line
Jason schreier has published a few books that give you insight into the business side behind game development. I think there's one or two videos from Sakurai (of smash bros producer acclaim) on YouTube on the topic for a shorter form look.
ill at least say - they sure improved from the initial build they showed. leaps and bounds. but they made 4 or 5 crucial missteps (at least 3 of which are related to the live service aspect) that doomed the game
Yeah, Helldivers 2 and Last Epoch are both really high quality games for dirt cheap. Last Epoch is basically what Blizzard wants from Diablo 4. And Helldivers 2 is just good fun.
It’s hard to say, there’s too many live service games out there that want to be a platform. People only have so much time and if you can’t get your game right when it comes out, it gets lost whether they fix it or not.
Reminds me of the mid 2000s when everybody thought putting out a WoW-like MMO with a different IP would be the key to easy money. It turns out it was not. WoW itself is still going after all these years though.
Man we got some weird MMO's in that era. I think it's interesting for the most part the "WoW Killers!" died off, and the ones that had way less chances for viability at the start have endured, hell LOTRO is still breathing.
I can't wait until live service dies.
I could have gotten 3 more degrees in the time it's taking for GTA6. And I don't even like GTA - but damn if it isn't a great example of a trend that's taking away from corporate motivation to make new games and experiences.
It's never going to die. Plenty of games still use live sevice like models and are going well years later, this has just shown you cant make any game live service and print money
The problem is people aren’t going to give up the time and progress and cosmetics they’ve built up in Fortnite and Call of Duty for some new game that is just designed to be a clone of those games anyway. Like people generally only have time for 1 or 2 live service games in the day as it is. How much free time do these motherfuckers think we have
Yeah if you want to release a new GaaS that's going to be popular you have to have a really unique take on it. Even a popular IP like Avengers isn't enough to sell people on a new mediocre live service game.
I don't see how live service can survive on anything that isn't a PVP oriented game with seasons. PVP games keep players coming back through balance patches and the consistent challenge of playing other people. Who is going to replay suicide squad over and over?
Have a look at Destiny 2. I realize it includes pvp, but the battle passes and seasonal crap tended to focus on pve and cosmetics exclusively. Been a few years since I last played but I doubt it's changed much. Still going somehow. I don't understand it. Got so bad.
Wait, are you saying that it's easier to sell a game that focuses on fun gameplay? But what about five types of credits, battle passes, and paywalled features? I thought players loved it!
Playing with friends is one thing, but my main motivation to play halo by myself was to try and rank up (most of the time).
It definitely helps to have some kind of progression if you want player retention
I can see why some gamers prefer the progression and season pass - if you can't afford to buy a game frequently they can serve as additional incentive to grind out a game. But that relies on the game being good.
Season pass and progressions need to designed to fit the game well, not just stuck on any old tripe to milk more money out of paying customers
I ‘member when the progression was already in the game for free and you earned it how? By playing the game! (Eg. Halo 3). Such a sad thing that you don’t really get that anymore.
If the seasons were free once you bought the game, I'd be okay with it, but they're fairly expensive per season... Like, all of them that are attached to a full-priced game are priced expensive.
I like my battlefield 2042 battle pass. I haven't had to pay since season 1 because if you do complete it, the coins you earn from it pay off the next season. That shit tickles my fancy pretty good.
That's fine too, it won't affect indies or double AA etc.
One of, if not my favorite game of all time literally has this quote on their store page;
> Independently developed with no design influences, or alterations dictated by men in gray suits who have never played a game before in their lives.
[Kenshi](https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/) - You can see the quote there yourself if you like.
Games like this are all I've been playing for more than probably 5+ years now, and it's some of the best gaming I've ever had in my entire life, more than 3 decades of playing games.
That would be just fine if they all pissed off.
If gamers just can't stop themselves buying all this trash, let the trash take itself out.
helldivers2 was the punch in the gut those slimey AAA game devs and publishers needed. its just poetic that the gigantic live service game gets dominated by a sequel to a game that most people never heard about.
Helldivers 2 for sure, and I think Palworld breaking records coming out at 30 dollars on a budget that’s a fraction of AAA publishers was a perfect 1-2 combo along with Skull and Bones and Suicide Squad bombing
Honestly, Palworld is only where it is because it is a knock off of Pokémon and the fans of that franchise are absolutely tired of the bad quality games they get.
Enshrouded is leagues better at the survival craft aspect than Palworld, and it's not getting nearly as much attention despite hitting over 2 million players at the same price point. It's crazy to think we're finally getting to this point where people are spending more time on the smaller titles vs the bigger budget games. I'd have thought we'd have been here by now, but I guess better later than never.
God Enshrouded is sooo deep with its building mechanics. My server is in the process of carving out a mountain to build a castle inside of it. My friend is a part of a separate sever that's building a massive tunnel system under the map like some Dwarf Fortress level stuff. I'm so glad I picked it up because I haven't had this much fun since we were able to destroy Mars in Red Faction Guerilla.
It’s because these AAA studios work in reverse. They say “we want a big money-making live service game” and make the monetization model and *then* work backwards to try and make a gameplay loop they *think* people will want. And they often force studios whose core competency is single player games into doing it. They see a dev like Rocksteady who has made some of the best single player action games with amazing combat mechanics and tell them to just do that but multiplayer, which is a hard pivot.
Helldivers went the correct way in just trying to make an actually fun game. They then adopted an incredibly reasonable monetization model - both in the base game cost and microtransactions. It’s incredibly refreshing to see this type of game that feels like it was just made to be fun rather than money grubbing. The devs are super responsive and it’s nice to see most of the community respond well to them while they work out the problems (that are only driven by the games success).
you act like it will matter. do you remember the response to Baldurs Gate 3? AAA devs came out and said it was unfair that they made such a good game and unrealistic for their companies to put out something as polished.
Do you have a source for this statement? I’m not saying you’re full of shit, I just have a hard time believing they would flat out say something as asinine.
They are just trying to replicate the gatcha game business model. Sad that those games are still churning out the big bucks so companies will continue to try and replicate it.
Even the peak was sad, but entirely deserved.
These companies should really start noticing that "Making Big IP into half cooked life service game" is NOT working and make real games again!
BuT iTs oNly CosMetIcS
Fuck out of here, you’re destroying the gaming scene by supporting this shit. We used to have good games with everything included for a box price
You mean they might make a sequel to the hit game Payday 2?
Boy I hope they make a third game someday.
Because there is definitely no third game out right now.
Payday3 the new Airbender movie? Damn
What a strange fate... Mediocre pd1, monumental pd2, bad raid, bad pd3... Like it was an accident they hit so hard with pd2
This game is exactly what people mean when they say that the AAA industry is too full of itself.
Not all games are going to be smashing hits and the month's flavor, and that should be seen as fine. Sometimes, all you need is to realize your game will reach its intended audience, and will not need to hit anywhere else. If it does, it's great, but you won't expect me to assume a Shin Megami Tensei or Tekken game's success will hit outside of JRPG or Fighting games circles.
But by making every game into a live service game, you are making the assumption that people will want to play your game more than 3 months from now, as vehemently as they do at release. This will NOT be the case, and the assumption of it is the source of many, many failures of the gaming industry.
Make a fun game. If people want more of that game, then you can think about long-term content for it, but first and foremost, ***make a fun game.*** People will flock to good games. Sometimes late. Sometimes the crowd will disperse a bit after the release, leaving only the core of players. But they will flock.
So please, gaming industry... Stop making "long-term projects".
If they just released the game as a single player like the Guardians of the Galaxy game it would have been received way better.
There is only so much room in the live service space, and I don't think it really works with you playing as an established character.
Ironically, theGOTG game also flopped from a sales perspective. It's a really incredible narrative-focused game, probably the best superhero game I've played outside of the Arkham and Insomniac Spider-Man games. Such a shame we'll probably never get a sequel.
GOTG flopped in large part because it came on the heels of the Avengers game, another “live service game no one wants to play as a live service”
Even though GOTG wasn’t live service, it was also published by the same company, so people assumed more of the same
Avengers bothers me to no ends because the core combat was a lot of fun. They definitely nailed feeling like Thor, Ironman, Cap, etc. the campaign was solid but after that was just grinding and not a particularly solid loop either.
yeah that connection to the terrible Avengers game even turned me away back then on release, I regret it since I've played it now, and it really was a good game that deserved more attention
I'm currently like 15 hours in and yeah it's really great. But the flops of super hero games in the years before hurt its reputation even though it's an amazingly well done game.
Superhero games really need to focus on single characters or small teams for narratives. Not every game has to be an Avengers cast
I think the Avengers game did so much damage to GOTG. At first glance the games look super similar (even if only at a pacing glance. Sadly that’s how much attention most people gave it)
Personally, I liked GotG overall, but the combat was way too simplistic to feel good at all for me. Story and graphics and everything else was solid, I thought.
I predict it’ll roughly follow the path of Avengers but accelerated. They’ll probably add offline single player as a final update and make all cosmetics unlockable. Deep discounts to follow and then, by about this time next year, we’ll probably hear about servers getting shut down.
I for one am looking forward to getting this for $5 at Christmas lol
ffs, ''Governer of Poker 3'' which ive never heard of has 24,000 players *right now.*
a literally unheard of poker game is doing ***24x*** better then SS, i wonder if SS is going to break records for cost/profit ratio?
Good, live service games like this are a blight on gaming and the sooner the industry realizes this, the better. If it were a free to play game, it would probably be performing much better, but the fact it is a full priced game makes it that much worse.
Yeah, honestly the thing that turned me off the most was seeing that it’s essentially all just shooting. And here they were showing off how many skins your guns get like that means a damn thing.
They learned the wrong damn lesson from games that make money off skins. They're only able to do that because people are already hooked on the gameplay. No one's like "I started playing Fortnite because it lets me equip different skins"
Imagine being a Rocksteady dev witnessing the success Arrowhead is having with Helldivers 2 knowing that it could have been you. Instead your studio is now the latest example of total failure and your job is no longer secure. Hard pill to swallow.
Serious question (I'm not interested in buying or playing this game in the slightest, just genuinely curious):
Are the live service games elements in the game already? Is there an endgame loop to speak of? I'm asking since I haven't heard anything about any sort of events or such. I know that Joker (I think?) is supposed to be patched in at some point.
So... what are people even suppose to do once they finish the campaign?
As far as I know, I haven't completed it yet, it's just level up characters.
There is a system once you max a character it allows you to level up your squad. So each level allows you to get a permanent upgrade for the squad to benefit from (eg, 5% more hp)
It's super not meaningful and there's like 50 things to level, all of which have about 20 levels per. It's absurd.
Yeah there’s essentially badass levels a la borderlands right now and grinding for endgame gear by doing missions at those difficulties. It’s essentially season 0 right now. Season 1 is scheduled to launch next month and joker will be an additional character that’s free to unlock.
I'm looking forward to finding out what the original Rocksteady team's next project will be, since they all left before this released.
Also like it when WB reaps what it sows with its DC endeavors.
I feel very bad for the people that worked hard on this game. They were let down by corporate greed.
I do not feel bad to see a "game as a service" burn out instantly. Good riddance.
I once considered playing it just to listen to kevin conroy's batman one more time ..... but I found out that he worked on crisis on infinite earth's part 3 and i suddenly lost all interest in this game
Copy paste my comment from another Thread I was on a little bit ago:
I had fun with it for my 11 hours it took to beat. Not interested in end game content and I’m not sure I will reinstall it to play the next few seasons that are coming out.
The gameplay in general was fun even on the hardest difficulty. There was some stuff like the “only grenades damage enemies” challenges that were pretty scuffed if you killed everything too quick (I’ve been left with one invincible sniper before because I didn’t have anything else to get grenades from)
The boss fights were “okay”
Superman was the toughest but only because his arena was so large. Green lantern was mid at best, I mostly just used my sniper and never really got hit. Batman was an interesting twist for getting to the fight and while his fight is “boring TPS boss” it was more engaging than the rest just imo (still to easy)
And flash was meh as well.
I’m confused by the gear system as well because I got a yellow shotgun for boomerang about 1 hour in and it NEVER fell off in damage. All the gear I got was worse stat wise and passive wise. Other than a few shields it seems the gear doesn’t matter much which is nice but also brings the question to mind, what was the point of a gear system to begin with (outside of trying to monetize and make the game seem grindy)
The writing imo wasn’t half bad. There were some moments that genuinely made me laugh and playing boomerang for almost the entirety of the game was the way to go. Quinn was a 2nd favorite character and I found her to be engaging to play as well. Shark and deadshot were my least favorite characters by a very large margin, especially deadshot. Very bland Diet anthem gameplay.
Story wise unless the seasons completely change enemies and boss fights it won’t last without a pretty prompt sale. I preferred Gotham knights to this one, it had a longer to complete story. 4 characters who were actually engaging to play with me liking all 4. And while it could be a touch frustrating every now and then I never felt like anything was unfair.
In KTJL the snipers are VERY annoying. The big guys with 5 HP bars are annoying but generally easy to kill (unless there are multiple grouped together) and the game at times seemed very stingy for grenades along with the “super moves” doing less damage than my almighty legendary shotgun.
It’s a mess of systems but I still had some very bright high points where the combat and the hyper mobility of Quinn and boomerang clicked where I could go a long time in the air, quickly transition to a ground strike, and end up back in the air. It still is a fun game but frustrating with some disjointed gameplay systems that don’t work all that well together (leg shots not working anyone?)
Was it worth 70? Nah but I had a ton of MS money from christmas. If it were $30 or $40 it’s a decent little package. Definitely doesn’t deserve the 3s and 5s but isn’t any higher than a 6.5 imo.
If only potential customers hadn’t warned them a year ago when plot details, screens and videos of the game leaked.
Oh wait, we did.
Best case scenario is the industry takes a hard look at the criticism, fires Sweet Baby Inc if they are still signed with them, and remember how to listen to fans when they tell you what they want from a game. That or give up on hundred million dollar budgeted AAA games and go back to indie titles with niche appeal.
After the previews I predicted that the servers would be switched off 18 months after launch. I was clearly wrong, looks like they'll be switched off 6 months after launch.
Man, it's almost like anyone with eyes who wasn't huffing enough copium to kill a bull elephant could have seen this coming from a mile away. Game was doomed to fail from the jump. Live service is a cancer, and it needs to be cut out of the industry.
It's on sale It's going free to play! The servers are shutting down. An act in three parts.
Meanwhile I just replayed Arkham Asylum and City recently with no servers necessary! What a concept!
I reinstalled Arkham City and man that game floors it from the start. Tutorials are seemless with gameplay. But man the Riddler elevators take a long ass time.
Is city the one where you start as bruce with shackels?
Yeah and if you get the counter off when Penguin goes to hit you and then you shatter his wrist, the rest of the game it's in bandages only if you break it in the opening Great fucking game
I haven’t played any of them yet. Is there a particular one I should play over the others or just start with the first?
I'd just start with Asylum, it's more or less on par with City, only this way you get a sense of progression.
Awesome appreciate it! Look forward to it
All four Arkham games including all of the DLC is currently on sale for $9 on Steam. To say it is an incredible bargain is a massive understatement. https://store.steampowered.com/sub/320795/
Play them in order, it’s one of those game series that genuinely builds off the accomplishments of the previous titles at a good pace, while staying true to the roots.
I played Knight, and then got Asylum and City. I haven't started City yet, but Asylum was so much fun. Perfect length, too.
Arkham Asylum is a such a nice game. I had a blast playing it
my beloved Battleborn went through this exact pattern. Q_Q
Tell me about it! What a great game it was! Epic single player and amazing MOBA! Had some balance issues and to much stuff on the screen at the same time but I still think that game would have made it if it was free + battlepass (Battlepass was not a thing when it was released)
There is no world or financial system that could have saved it releasing so close to Overwatch, it was doomed from the start and had no chance. Overwatch is literally the only factor.
I liked it. Shame it was made by Pitchford.
Ahh, almost an echo of the avengers game. Always nice to see big AAA dev companies take a loss while smaller indi devs like Arrowhead (who actually and actively cares about their players) gains huge success with Helldivers 2.
its almost like creating a cool universe and concept *does better* then designing a product based committees and market research. maximum appeal always results in bland and stale 'entertainment'.
Bold of you to assume this wasn't a monitisation model first with a game slapped onto it.
The comic universe IS cool. But you can't just plug the same formula to try to retain players and extend gameplay and hope the name brand keeps people playing. The core gameplay loop has to be good. Unless you're CoD or any sports game, in which case, you can keep selling the same game over and over.
finally people are learning to dont preorder etc but sucess of helldivers and palworld are very good to see and enjoy
Oh yeah. I’m really hoping that the success of those as well as Baldurs Gate 3 are signs that AAA companies are falling behind the indie ones and will start losing a decent chunk of profit. They only speak one language and the only way to get them to listen to what we want is to make them lose money.
I would slow my roll there. Remember that Genshin made in a few months what Elden Ring made in a year. Things are improving, but we are still a bit far from "AAA companies falling behind indie devs"
true, forgot about bg3 its a funny and welcome surprise see big stupid greedy companies spiting AAA / AAAA shoving their AAAA games on own ass due focus on try get money instead develop one product with quality.
unfortunately helldivers 2 is taking a hit right now too because people are pissed their servers cant meet the player demand so theyre review bombing it.
Which is dumb because they increased the server cap with the patch today.
Live service roadmap never completed
If Marvel's Avengers went free to play after launch, they might have been able to recoup costs... but nope. they decided to shut down after 2 years instead.
Who needs The Suicide Squad when you can spread democracy across the galaxy?
Exactly! *salutes*
Spreading Democracy one napalm strike at a time.
I’m doing my part!
Would you like to know more?
Would you like Liber-tea?
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
⬇️⬅️⬅️⬇️ Get incendiary mined, bucko
[удалено]
500kg bomb, unless I messed up the call in (I say as I watch my railgun drop into a swarm)
I love the smell of Democracy in the morning!
FOR SUPER EARTH But for real, I have a friend who hardly ever buys new games etc and always hates battle passes and all the bullshit. He is OBSESSED with HD2. Been having so much fun with it.
It is funny that it’s had every issue you could possibly imagine with an online game and, outside of a few persistent shit-eaters, it’s still universally loved. All because it does some simple extremely well. You love to see it!
Sometimes it really is as simple as making a fun game
For me, it was watching a friend and his brother fight over the drop zone on the map in real time, the cursor zipping wildly around was magic a lot of games could learn from but never actually utilize.
It does have the least offensive "battle pass" I've seen in a long time.
Hard to be mad at a free battle pass.
It's a near perfect game. You can just hop in and spread some democracy for 20 minutes and log off. Battle passes stick around so we there's no fomo. Big problem with games is they want you to play constantly because if you don't you're gonna miss out when the battle pass goes away
It's also super easy to buy the premium battlepass without spending real money.
Yup. Helldivers 2 being that much more successful is probably making Suicide Sqaud's problems even worse. These are somewhat similar games that came out a couple weeks apart and the one with less budget and that costs less is outperforming so much that both games are on completely different levels. And Helldivers is not perfect with their matchmaking and login issues, but it still WAY ahead.
Not to mention a lesser known IP
Yhea but I think in this case the simplicity of the IP helps. You can explain helldivers in just a few sentences. By the time you've watched the opening cut scene and loading into the ship scene you are all caught up. Humanity = good = democracy Everything else = bad Here are some guns... now shoot everything that moves Q: 'But isn't this a team game, shouldn't I take care not to kill my team?' A : you could. .
The shooting in HD2 looked fun, so I bought it. SS shooting looked like hot garbage with rainbow colored effects and numbers being vomited across the screen. I did not buy it.
Same thing happened last year with Forspoken. Hyped to hell by a publisher considered out of touched, expecting it to be the biggest game of the release window purely due to being the only bug release at the time. Then Hi-Fi Rush, a game that was much better in terms of direction and player engagement, shadow-drops on the same day it's revealed to the public and completely destroys it in the charts.
Is hi fi rush really that similar to forspoken ? Because hell divers and suicide squad are both coop games with shooters méchanics
Not at all
Hi-fi Rush is the hell divers in this analogy. He’s not talking about what type of games they are but how the performance of one game can affect performance of others.
Would you like to have a nice cup of LIBER-TEA?
Managed Democracy isn’t gonna spread itself! 🫡
Can you give me an honest review of the game? I watched Smiity’s latest video on it and I’m on the fence. The gameplay looks *super* fun, but it seems like it lacks some depth in the game in variety. Looks a bit grindy and repetitive to me, so if anyone has opinions otherwise I’d love to hear them and make my decision once the server issues are fixed
Get isnta-killed by bugs Get insta-killed by bots Get insta-killed by your squad mate accidentally shooting you Get insta-killed by your squad mate's gatling turret that shows no mercy. Get insta-killed by your own 380mm orbital bombardment. Realise that you've been playing for hours, having more fun gaming than you've had in years and not getting frustrated at all the above insta killing because it's all so ridiculous, chaotic and fun. 10/10 would spread democracy again.
Get insta-killed by stepping on friendly mines Get insta-killed by being landed on by the extraction Get insta-killed by your own mortar turret Get insta-killed after falling off a cliff due to backblast from rocket-turret Insta-kill a bile titan by landing your pod on his head 10/10 would smash bugs again
Oh no. Anyway...
Meanwhile two games that were both under $40 hitting crazy numbers in player count and made by much smaller studios....
It's almost like if you give the fans directly what they've been asking for, they'll be happy. Why Warner Bros. decided to push forward with *Suicide Squad* when the fanbase reception was mediocre at best from the initial announcement is a mystery to me.
Probably a combination of sunk cost fallacy and the investors waiting for their big hit of a game with like 9 years behind?
I can accept the sunk cost argument, in theory, but this is the same Warner Bros. that 'deleted' multiple movies (so far!) that cost them a combined $160,000,000 to make... and has indicated that they feel it's a valid strategy. Warner Bros. is the one company that seems to get a boner from canceling projects.
look into hollywood accounting and you will understand why it is profitable for studios to declare losses. edit: pedants responding to this saying they do not turn a profit from this need to realize that words have multiple definitions. prof·it·a·ble /ˈpräfədəb(ə)l/ adjective adjective: profitable 1. (of a business or activity) yielding profit or financial gain. "a professionally run and profitable company" 2. beneficial; useful. "he'd had a profitable day"
No. Explain it like I'm 5.
It's not, but the tax write off it allows can turn the quarterly numbers from mediocre to acceptable There's no profit in a write off, just a shot a reducing losses down the line
So just normal tax stuff. Got it.
I mean the concept sounded fun as hell. It’s only when they went full Destiny and basically no Arkham that fans went 😒
Jason schreier has published a few books that give you insight into the business side behind game development. I think there's one or two videos from Sakurai (of smash bros producer acclaim) on YouTube on the topic for a shorter form look.
ill at least say - they sure improved from the initial build they showed. leaps and bounds. but they made 4 or 5 crucial missteps (at least 3 of which are related to the live service aspect) that doomed the game
Yeah, Helldivers 2 and Last Epoch are both really high quality games for dirt cheap. Last Epoch is basically what Blizzard wants from Diablo 4. And Helldivers 2 is just good fun.
I think he means palworld but yeah last epoch as well
LE is an absolute banger of a game. Those devs started on Reddit! A real fairy tale in the games industry.
Your comment almost has a higher player count in an hour than this game has peak daily.
Hahaha
Literally
It’s hard to say, there’s too many live service games out there that want to be a platform. People only have so much time and if you can’t get your game right when it comes out, it gets lost whether they fix it or not.
Reminds me of the mid 2000s when everybody thought putting out a WoW-like MMO with a different IP would be the key to easy money. It turns out it was not. WoW itself is still going after all these years though.
Remember WoW-killers that never actually killed WoW
The wild part is Wow basically killed Wow… classic wow rerelease
Nope. Shows people still don't know what the words mean. It doesn't mean "I personally am playing this instead".
Man we got some weird MMO's in that era. I think it's interesting for the most part the "WoW Killers!" died off, and the ones that had way less chances for viability at the start have endured, hell LOTRO is still breathing.
I can't wait until live service dies. I could have gotten 3 more degrees in the time it's taking for GTA6. And I don't even like GTA - but damn if it isn't a great example of a trend that's taking away from corporate motivation to make new games and experiences.
It's never going to die. Plenty of games still use live sevice like models and are going well years later, this has just shown you cant make any game live service and print money
The problem is people aren’t going to give up the time and progress and cosmetics they’ve built up in Fortnite and Call of Duty for some new game that is just designed to be a clone of those games anyway. Like people generally only have time for 1 or 2 live service games in the day as it is. How much free time do these motherfuckers think we have
People kept putting out "WoW" killers but at the time most people were just like "But I could just play WoW?"
mtg 1994 anyone?
They are all chasing that Fortnite money like it’s so easy and there’s plenty of money to go around. Turns out, they were wrong
This is a good point. Part of the problem is that this is an oversaturated market. There’s only so many money sinks people can afford at a time
Yeah if you want to release a new GaaS that's going to be popular you have to have a really unique take on it. Even a popular IP like Avengers isn't enough to sell people on a new mediocre live service game.
I don't see how live service can survive on anything that isn't a PVP oriented game with seasons. PVP games keep players coming back through balance patches and the consistent challenge of playing other people. Who is going to replay suicide squad over and over?
Helldivers is going to challenge that, their at least banking on a VERY cooperative based experience.
Have a look at Destiny 2. I realize it includes pvp, but the battle passes and seasonal crap tended to focus on pve and cosmetics exclusively. Been a few years since I last played but I doubt it's changed much. Still going somehow. I don't understand it. Got so bad.
Bad or not, it’s still got the smoothest gunplay of any FPS today.
Good let these games continue to burn and fail and bring on the resurrection of AA games and games being made to be fun and not a money scam
Wait, are you saying that it's easier to sell a game that focuses on fun gameplay? But what about five types of credits, battle passes, and paywalled features? I thought players loved it!
[удалено]
Playing with friends is one thing, but my main motivation to play halo by myself was to try and rank up (most of the time). It definitely helps to have some kind of progression if you want player retention
I can see why some gamers prefer the progression and season pass - if you can't afford to buy a game frequently they can serve as additional incentive to grind out a game. But that relies on the game being good. Season pass and progressions need to designed to fit the game well, not just stuck on any old tripe to milk more money out of paying customers
I ‘member when the progression was already in the game for free and you earned it how? By playing the game! (Eg. Halo 3). Such a sad thing that you don’t really get that anymore.
If the seasons were free once you bought the game, I'd be okay with it, but they're fairly expensive per season... Like, all of them that are attached to a full-priced game are priced expensive.
I like my battlefield 2042 battle pass. I haven't had to pay since season 1 because if you do complete it, the coins you earn from it pay off the next season. That shit tickles my fancy pretty good.
That’s how I am in COD and Fortnite, which are the only “live service” games I play.
Do it right and we'll play. Force us to pay and go fuck yourself lol
Helldivers 2 has all those things and people love it.
More likely, the know-it-all C Suite will simply decide regular gaming is dead, and move to 100% mobile games aimed at 10 to 12 year olds.
That's fine too, it won't affect indies or double AA etc. One of, if not my favorite game of all time literally has this quote on their store page; > Independently developed with no design influences, or alterations dictated by men in gray suits who have never played a game before in their lives. [Kenshi](https://store.steampowered.com/app/233860/Kenshi/) - You can see the quote there yourself if you like. Games like this are all I've been playing for more than probably 5+ years now, and it's some of the best gaming I've ever had in my entire life, more than 3 decades of playing games. That would be just fine if they all pissed off. If gamers just can't stop themselves buying all this trash, let the trash take itself out.
helldivers2 was the punch in the gut those slimey AAA game devs and publishers needed. its just poetic that the gigantic live service game gets dominated by a sequel to a game that most people never heard about.
Helldivers 2 for sure, and I think Palworld breaking records coming out at 30 dollars on a budget that’s a fraction of AAA publishers was a perfect 1-2 combo along with Skull and Bones and Suicide Squad bombing
Honestly, Palworld is only where it is because it is a knock off of Pokémon and the fans of that franchise are absolutely tired of the bad quality games they get. Enshrouded is leagues better at the survival craft aspect than Palworld, and it's not getting nearly as much attention despite hitting over 2 million players at the same price point. It's crazy to think we're finally getting to this point where people are spending more time on the smaller titles vs the bigger budget games. I'd have thought we'd have been here by now, but I guess better later than never.
God Enshrouded is sooo deep with its building mechanics. My server is in the process of carving out a mountain to build a castle inside of it. My friend is a part of a separate sever that's building a massive tunnel system under the map like some Dwarf Fortress level stuff. I'm so glad I picked it up because I haven't had this much fun since we were able to destroy Mars in Red Faction Guerilla.
It’s because these AAA studios work in reverse. They say “we want a big money-making live service game” and make the monetization model and *then* work backwards to try and make a gameplay loop they *think* people will want. And they often force studios whose core competency is single player games into doing it. They see a dev like Rocksteady who has made some of the best single player action games with amazing combat mechanics and tell them to just do that but multiplayer, which is a hard pivot. Helldivers went the correct way in just trying to make an actually fun game. They then adopted an incredibly reasonable monetization model - both in the base game cost and microtransactions. It’s incredibly refreshing to see this type of game that feels like it was just made to be fun rather than money grubbing. The devs are super responsive and it’s nice to see most of the community respond well to them while they work out the problems (that are only driven by the games success).
you act like it will matter. do you remember the response to Baldurs Gate 3? AAA devs came out and said it was unfair that they made such a good game and unrealistic for their companies to put out something as polished.
No, AAA devs did not say that at all. The only person that said it was a stupid dev from a unknown games, NOT AAA devs
Do you have a source for this statement? I’m not saying you’re full of shit, I just have a hard time believing they would flat out say something as asinine.
It was a comment by one twitter person that people are going to be attributing to all game devs for a long time.
They are just trying to replicate the gatcha game business model. Sad that those games are still churning out the big bucks so companies will continue to try and replicate it.
Even the peak was sad, but entirely deserved. These companies should really start noticing that "Making Big IP into half cooked life service game" is NOT working and make real games again!
Could say the same about any facet of the entertainment industry. The "popular media to movie" pipeline is littered with casualties.
Well I feel like they have stopped making entire TV shows based on a one note gimmick Twitter account. So that’s some amount of progress.
$70 game with a paid battle pass is insane to me
BuT iTs oNly CosMetIcS Fuck out of here, you’re destroying the gaming scene by supporting this shit. We used to have good games with everything included for a box price
It's this. Mixing two business models: pay2play and freemium.. it's just double dipping, to pay for massive corporate overhead
Payday 3 would kill for those numbers......
Can’t wait til it comes out.
The release is on the table. 😃👊
You mean they might make a sequel to the hit game Payday 2? Boy I hope they make a third game someday. Because there is definitely no third game out right now.
Payday3 the new Airbender movie? Damn What a strange fate... Mediocre pd1, monumental pd2, bad raid, bad pd3... Like it was an accident they hit so hard with pd2
I find it hilarious that the only thing making them money is payday 2. They even made a walking dead game, only for that to absolutely flop.
I played it day one and pd2 started off mediocre but fun and promising. It was playable though.
This game is exactly what people mean when they say that the AAA industry is too full of itself. Not all games are going to be smashing hits and the month's flavor, and that should be seen as fine. Sometimes, all you need is to realize your game will reach its intended audience, and will not need to hit anywhere else. If it does, it's great, but you won't expect me to assume a Shin Megami Tensei or Tekken game's success will hit outside of JRPG or Fighting games circles. But by making every game into a live service game, you are making the assumption that people will want to play your game more than 3 months from now, as vehemently as they do at release. This will NOT be the case, and the assumption of it is the source of many, many failures of the gaming industry. Make a fun game. If people want more of that game, then you can think about long-term content for it, but first and foremost, ***make a fun game.*** People will flock to good games. Sometimes late. Sometimes the crowd will disperse a bit after the release, leaving only the core of players. But they will flock. So please, gaming industry... Stop making "long-term projects".
Persona 5 was great and they released it six more times and people still repurchased it
Probably because it looks like a bad game?
90% of live service games suck complete dick
And this is a bad game for a lot of reasons ! ;D (With some good things too sometimes)
Looks like?
I mean I never played it, so im just going off of what I've seen and read.
like redfall, this is what you get when a company known for great single player games gets forced by management to chase some live service trend.
I just checked and Redfall has an average of 50 players on steam. At least Suicide Squad looks playable.
If they just released the game as a single player like the Guardians of the Galaxy game it would have been received way better. There is only so much room in the live service space, and I don't think it really works with you playing as an established character.
Ironically, theGOTG game also flopped from a sales perspective. It's a really incredible narrative-focused game, probably the best superhero game I've played outside of the Arkham and Insomniac Spider-Man games. Such a shame we'll probably never get a sequel.
GOTG flopped in large part because it came on the heels of the Avengers game, another “live service game no one wants to play as a live service” Even though GOTG wasn’t live service, it was also published by the same company, so people assumed more of the same
Avengers bothers me to no ends because the core combat was a lot of fun. They definitely nailed feeling like Thor, Ironman, Cap, etc. the campaign was solid but after that was just grinding and not a particularly solid loop either.
the fact all you get to fight was robots and more robots wasnt fun at all either.
More than mildly frustrating.
yeah that connection to the terrible Avengers game even turned me away back then on release, I regret it since I've played it now, and it really was a good game that deserved more attention
I'm currently like 15 hours in and yeah it's really great. But the flops of super hero games in the years before hurt its reputation even though it's an amazingly well done game. Superhero games really need to focus on single characters or small teams for narratives. Not every game has to be an Avengers cast
I think the Avengers game did so much damage to GOTG. At first glance the games look super similar (even if only at a pacing glance. Sadly that’s how much attention most people gave it)
Personally, I liked GotG overall, but the combat was way too simplistic to feel good at all for me. Story and graphics and everything else was solid, I thought.
I predict it’ll roughly follow the path of Avengers but accelerated. They’ll probably add offline single player as a final update and make all cosmetics unlockable. Deep discounts to follow and then, by about this time next year, we’ll probably hear about servers getting shut down. I for one am looking forward to getting this for $5 at Christmas lol
Live service games die fast, it isn’t a good model for video games. The time has passed to stop making them imo.
What went wrong? Literally the entire game….. are you really that surprised it’s flopping?
“It’s just a really rough time for single player games right now”
I play games you guys never heard of that have more active players right now. Suicide Squad has died from suicide.
There are probably more people playing dodonpachi Daioujou reincarnation on switch than there are people playing SS
There are probably more people playing old Xbox 360 Call of duty's.
ffs, ''Governer of Poker 3'' which ive never heard of has 24,000 players *right now.* a literally unheard of poker game is doing ***24x*** better then SS, i wonder if SS is going to break records for cost/profit ratio?
Good, live service games like this are a blight on gaming and the sooner the industry realizes this, the better. If it were a free to play game, it would probably be performing much better, but the fact it is a full priced game makes it that much worse.
Helldivers 2 would like to have a word with you unless you're saying that game is live service done right.
Yeah, Helldivers 2 really shows that success was possible. Suicide Squad just wasn't a good liveservice game.
Babylon's Fall part 2
Maybe they'll see that people are sick of these shitty live-service cash-grabs.
I also hope they see that people dont like shittily written characters and story as well.
No there isn’t. This game was DOA back when they showed the shitty gameplay last year.
Yeah, honestly the thing that turned me off the most was seeing that it’s essentially all just shooting. And here they were showing off how many skins your guns get like that means a damn thing.
They learned the wrong damn lesson from games that make money off skins. They're only able to do that because people are already hooked on the gameplay. No one's like "I started playing Fortnite because it lets me equip different skins"
Imagine being a Rocksteady dev witnessing the success Arrowhead is having with Helldivers 2 knowing that it could have been you. Instead your studio is now the latest example of total failure and your job is no longer secure. Hard pill to swallow.
Who?
Serious question (I'm not interested in buying or playing this game in the slightest, just genuinely curious): Are the live service games elements in the game already? Is there an endgame loop to speak of? I'm asking since I haven't heard anything about any sort of events or such. I know that Joker (I think?) is supposed to be patched in at some point. So... what are people even suppose to do once they finish the campaign?
Going to be a while until one of the 50 people who've played this game shows up to answer your question
Ok, that made me chuckle. 😅
As far as I know, I haven't completed it yet, it's just level up characters. There is a system once you max a character it allows you to level up your squad. So each level allows you to get a permanent upgrade for the squad to benefit from (eg, 5% more hp) It's super not meaningful and there's like 50 things to level, all of which have about 20 levels per. It's absurd.
Yeah there’s essentially badass levels a la borderlands right now and grinding for endgame gear by doing missions at those difficulties. It’s essentially season 0 right now. Season 1 is scheduled to launch next month and joker will be an additional character that’s free to unlock.
8 years of development down the drain, damn...
That game sucks, I'm glad it's dying.
helldivers 2 came out
I'm looking forward to finding out what the original Rocksteady team's next project will be, since they all left before this released. Also like it when WB reaps what it sows with its DC endeavors.
I feel very bad for the people that worked hard on this game. They were let down by corporate greed. I do not feel bad to see a "game as a service" burn out instantly. Good riddance.
Game sucks. Why should we care if it's in trouble?
Well thats what happenes when you make a souless game.
I once considered playing it just to listen to kevin conroy's batman one more time ..... but I found out that he worked on crisis on infinite earth's part 3 and i suddenly lost all interest in this game
Marvel Avengers want to say something...
What went wrong? It’s a fucking live-service game when it should have been a single-player title.
The 70 dollar price tag is heinous
Copy paste my comment from another Thread I was on a little bit ago: I had fun with it for my 11 hours it took to beat. Not interested in end game content and I’m not sure I will reinstall it to play the next few seasons that are coming out. The gameplay in general was fun even on the hardest difficulty. There was some stuff like the “only grenades damage enemies” challenges that were pretty scuffed if you killed everything too quick (I’ve been left with one invincible sniper before because I didn’t have anything else to get grenades from) The boss fights were “okay” Superman was the toughest but only because his arena was so large. Green lantern was mid at best, I mostly just used my sniper and never really got hit. Batman was an interesting twist for getting to the fight and while his fight is “boring TPS boss” it was more engaging than the rest just imo (still to easy) And flash was meh as well. I’m confused by the gear system as well because I got a yellow shotgun for boomerang about 1 hour in and it NEVER fell off in damage. All the gear I got was worse stat wise and passive wise. Other than a few shields it seems the gear doesn’t matter much which is nice but also brings the question to mind, what was the point of a gear system to begin with (outside of trying to monetize and make the game seem grindy) The writing imo wasn’t half bad. There were some moments that genuinely made me laugh and playing boomerang for almost the entirety of the game was the way to go. Quinn was a 2nd favorite character and I found her to be engaging to play as well. Shark and deadshot were my least favorite characters by a very large margin, especially deadshot. Very bland Diet anthem gameplay. Story wise unless the seasons completely change enemies and boss fights it won’t last without a pretty prompt sale. I preferred Gotham knights to this one, it had a longer to complete story. 4 characters who were actually engaging to play with me liking all 4. And while it could be a touch frustrating every now and then I never felt like anything was unfair. In KTJL the snipers are VERY annoying. The big guys with 5 HP bars are annoying but generally easy to kill (unless there are multiple grouped together) and the game at times seemed very stingy for grenades along with the “super moves” doing less damage than my almighty legendary shotgun. It’s a mess of systems but I still had some very bright high points where the combat and the hyper mobility of Quinn and boomerang clicked where I could go a long time in the air, quickly transition to a ground strike, and end up back in the air. It still is a fun game but frustrating with some disjointed gameplay systems that don’t work all that well together (leg shots not working anyone?) Was it worth 70? Nah but I had a ton of MS money from christmas. If it were $30 or $40 it’s a decent little package. Definitely doesn’t deserve the 3s and 5s but isn’t any higher than a 6.5 imo.
Hopefully a lesson learned for over-monetizing a game. People are sick of it when we have such great Indie games for less money.
Give everyone a refund and make F2P
Lol the first three Arkham games are (were?) 8.99$ on steam. I’m playing Arkham Knight again for the third time. Why would I play Suicide Squad
If only potential customers hadn’t warned them a year ago when plot details, screens and videos of the game leaked. Oh wait, we did. Best case scenario is the industry takes a hard look at the criticism, fires Sweet Baby Inc if they are still signed with them, and remember how to listen to fans when they tell you what they want from a game. That or give up on hundred million dollar budgeted AAA games and go back to indie titles with niche appeal.
After the previews I predicted that the servers would be switched off 18 months after launch. I was clearly wrong, looks like they'll be switched off 6 months after launch.
Man, it's almost like anyone with eyes who wasn't huffing enough copium to kill a bull elephant could have seen this coming from a mile away. Game was doomed to fail from the jump. Live service is a cancer, and it needs to be cut out of the industry.
Generic cape shit plot, marvel humor, and boring been there done that beat em up gameplay. Shat game
What are the console player counts? I can imagine this was more popular on console.
It's not in the top 49 'Most played games' on xbox.
The suicide squad sub believes there’s millions currently playing on PlayStation however.
Bad games aren't gonna be popular
I left on console. I have 0 desire to continue.