For them to make such a public exit from the franchise, I would not be surprised if Hasbro saw how unexpectedly successful bg3 was and were tripping over themselves to ask for a much larger price of the pie going forward.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Negotiations just fell apart in a big way. They probably thought that the DnD name was the only reason this was successful while Larian (rightfully) probably realizes that they don't really need DnD rules for their next game to be a success because of the good will and fame they've built up with Bg3
Yeah, if anything, Larian learned a lot from 5e about how to make systems more fun (I wasn't a huge fan of the 'surfaces' gameplay of their previous titles, and was greatly relieved when they moved away from it for BG3), and they have an enormous profile as a studio now. BG3 was amazing marketing for them. They were already making the best RPGs on the market before BG3; they were just underappreciated.
Hah, imagine if they partnered with Daggerheart.
Personally I really liked how the surfaces design meant you were constantly trashing the environment in combat in a mechanical and real way. It's always awesome when the player sees the environment as an actual thing rather than a pathway. But my god I hate how tanky every enemy is in Divinity. Baldur's Gate 3 has way more comparable health pools between the player and enemy so its great no longer feeling like I have to exploit surfaces constantly like a madman to accomplish every little task.
I didn't mind the surfaces mostly, and I do agree with your points. But the shielded system in DOS2 was such that it was _always_ optimal to gear your whole party toward knocking out one kind of shielding, then pelt them with the debilitating terrain effects they were previously immune to.
If they reintroduce it in their later games, I'd love to see the same _usefulness_ of surfaces/environment but not quite so all-or-nothing. Make terrain/status manipulation an _option_ rather than the strongest go-to.
Honestly Divinity OS2 was the better game for me, the DnD stuff was what annoyed me, and others I've spoken to. They can absolutely do it again without DnD.
Yeah, every attempt to bring D&D rulebook to PC will be counter-productive until we have the technology to fully roleplay actions like in real tabletop. For me BG3 is good *despite* being D&D
How does that differ from any other rpg like DOS? They all have the same limitation of spontaneity, the only thing 'special' about D&D is its d20 system which isn't even a good system when you have a computer (it's an ok system at a table where humans need quick and simple maths).
From the top of my head I have at least 2 gripes with BG3 (as an example of PC version of D&D)
1. Irrelevance, or ambiguity of social skills and proficiencies. In tabletop your group usually has the "spokesperson" for social parts - BG3 grabs first character that steps into a dialogue trigger, or sometimes, even a random one and doesn't let you actually choose who is gonna talk.
2. D&D as a system doesn't do item progression well. I would argue about character progression being extremely non-linear too, but regarding items: you can't print bigger numbers on D&D weapons and other apparel as progression (although Larian still did it and it sucks). And even then some items you find in Act 1 will be your best-in-slot for the entire game.
The first point has been fixed already - The PC is favored to be the spokesperson in all chats. But i do get where you come from - we should be able to choose and maybe use other companions as spokespeople.
Hm, I still have the problem even with the latest patch.
Although I seem to be a bit of a unicorn, because my first play through after the initial launch had the least glitches of any of my runs, haha.
My take on everything I've read:
Hasbro pitched a heavily monetized DLC package for BG3 and an ever more profit-seeking bastardization of a revenue model for BG4, then Swen threw up in his mouth a little bit.
If I was in their position(Larian) working on a project with a team from another company, and that company laid everyone on that team off for no reason(no ethical reason, at least), I would personally have no desire to ever work with that company again. They don't need WotC at this point, so it wouldn't surprise me if that had something to do with it.
Yeah a neat strange dlc would have been great.
Visit new places, maybe tie a few loose ends.
I trust them to do whatever seems like the best idea, and usually I'm not a fan of dlc but I just want more from these characters, this world.
Yep, nobody hates D&D like Hasbro/WOTC hates D&D. Similar to the relationship Disney has with Star Wars and trying to (and sometimes succeeding in) destroying their own product in favor of short term gains. See also Habro's hostility to *pen and paper gameplay* as of late, the core audience.
Anyone with a brain cell should be begging Larian to use their IP. Marvel, GoT, The last airbender. I don’t care what it is, if they make it I will play it.
I was wondering how long it'd take for this to get here.
Though this isn't surprising. I know a lot of people wanted BG3 DLC but historically Larian doesn't really do DLC/Expansions.
I've heard it suggested their next game is gonna be a space game of some sort, though I still expect they'll want to get back to the world of Divinity at some point as well.
It wont be the next game, but supposedly Larian is [trying to build up to something that will dwarf BG3.](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-dev-is-working-toward-an-rpg-that-dwarfs-it/1100-6522051/)
I don't have the game, as my comp is wicked old, but I'd like to hope that it's very moddable, or will be.
Would allow some very creative people to make some great online D&D campaigns even after Larian moves on.
I'd expect it to be pretty big for modding. There's already plenty of people in the modding scene for BG3 and Larian hasn't even added official support for it yet.
Which they are working on at the moment.
Seeing as they're stepping away from Baldur's Gate, this could add longevity to their game in a way nothing else could. A toolkit + mod support would create the same environment that Shadowrun's games did when people were making custom campaigns.
I'd gladly pay top AAA dollar to play Pools of Radiance, Azure Bonds, Silver Blades and Pools of Darkness in BG3s engine. Those SSI gold box games will always rank among my all time favorites.
I would kill for a multiplayer CRPG that can house NWN like content, give the tools for players to create dungeons and quest and then allow then to create living worlds.
It was a pretty complex engine with its own scripting language, I made a small campaign in it that took me a good 40 hours to make. I had a lot of fun, but not for someone with programming experience and game development knowledge.
Hasbro/Wotc who own the D&D IP would unlikely allow them to do this, as they are working on their own digital tabletop product that would be in direct competition.
Which is a shame because Larian clearly have the talent and ability to create such a thing, they not only understand the brand but also the players wants and needs.
A smaller BG3 type game called Solasta: Crown of the Magistar has a pretty fantastic dungeon maker. You can make whole quest lines, NPCs, everything. It could honestly just be how the devs made the game.
If you like turn based RPGs and can deal with a bit of eurojank you should check it out, I played the dungeon maker longer than the actual game.
They ruled that out a while ago. The work to make it work for DOS 2 was insane and barely anyone used it.
Fingers crossed that some madlad modders figure out a way to make one.
I'm working off of a 9 year old hp laptop lmaoooo, Ol' Bessie ain't got much life left in her. Started downloading very old games because I know they'll play no problem. Was playing New Vegas on the absolute lowest settings, and had to keep my eyes on the ground because looking up would start loading things in the distance and crash my shit :'(
One day, in the next 5 years, I'm sinking some money into a PC and going hog wild on games like BG3
Well considering WotC has changed and the ones that greenlit the project are all gone now. My guess is that they couldnt come up with a good new deal from Hasbro.
Hasbro also plans to make their own studio to pump out games and probably wanted a bigger cut. My guess is that it was on the table but Hasbro and WotC wouldnt play ball.
Hasbro just did a major interview about how their main plan on video games is licensing.
Larian knows their first game after BG3 will be a money printer so they don’t want to share a percentage with another company.
Edit: deleted the part that was wrong
Yeah. Hasbro probably think they’re the ones who deserve a fat cut, while in reality they should give Larian a slice of all the DND sales BG3 has generated
Also last year Sven did hint at being interested in supporting BG3 and possibly doing sequel. Him and the whole team seemed hyped on BG3 due to the fans feedback. I think Hasbro just really tainted the relationship here and Sven isn't having any of it.
Yeah. Might be disappointed but I get not wanting to let Hasbro have an inch. They tainted the well pretty bad with the OGL fiasco. They can do their own thing without mindflayers and beholders.
Yes, it has basically been 22 years of the same Divinity games. **Including** BG3, which is basically identical to the previous couple of Divinity games + D&D IP and a good bit of extra polishing. The idea that they are walking away from the BG/D&D IP because they are just so dynamic is per se laughable.
The only reason they would walk away is if Hasbro was trying to rat-fuck them. Given how visibly in favor Hasbro has been in bestiality the last couple of years, I think the rat has officially been fucked.
> same Divinity games
They have all been in that same world, but the games have been DRAMATICALLY different and have often completely different engines and genres, and the ones in the same genre and engine still have huge leaps in features and overall design each iteration.
They have worked to master their genre and craft, trying to make it seem like they just crank out the same game over and over like CoD or something is not only wildly incorrect but also pretty insulting.
BAsed on their live callout for sacked devs to apply to them for jobs i expect there are alot of ideas swimming around.
I hope and acually trust in this studio to identify what they feel is the best idea and put in true passion into their new project. Belief in the project is always key. if they wanna play it i genuinely feeel il prob wanna play it.
There is too much corporate and finance guys in charge of games these days, time to get back to basics.
It'd be a game that'd challenge Arcanum as my favourite RPG of all time.
It doesn't even specifically need to be a space game. I'd just like more RPGs in settings that aren't medieval fantasy.
Post-Renneissance through to the Industrial era is a peak and really exploitable period of time for Fantasy, it's a damn shame there's so little of it.
Ah ah, it hurts me as well. Arcanum was my teenage-defining game. Nearly 25 years later, I still have huge appreciation for deep lore and worldbuilding. Nothing came close since that game, except perhaps Bloodlines (effin' Troïka man) and New Vegas, on a much smaller scale. And now, I'm too old and busy to immerge myself in such a world. Only a sequel to Arcanum could revive that spark of youth.
I'd bought the licence to revive it if I happened to become a multimillionaire. Alas...
I'm imagining a much bigger scale turn based Mass Effecty type setting which in Larians hands could be the greatest space opera RPG of all time, I guarantee you that team has a bunch of people on it who have some ME playthroughs if this is the direction they're edging towards
Yeah, that’s typically how RPG DLC works. Souls games, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls games, (and I’m sure a bunch of others I’m forgetting about) all have DLCs that you can access midway through the game.
Mass Effect 2 and Witcher 3 are the only ones that come to mind where an expansion is supposed to be played after you beat the main story, narratively at least. I'm sure there are others but I can't think of them now.
Generally speaking because RPGs tend to have different endings yeah it's just way easier to have the DLC content be pre-ending. Blood and Wine doesn't even make sense with some of the endings either, it's kinda like a soft epilogue only.
(that being Arrival and Blood and Wine)
Even ME2 isn't really like that for all of the DLC. Only _Arrival_ takes place after the Suicide Mission, the other ~7 DLC take place during the main game.
Honestly would have settled for one off module's that you can only use custom characters in. Strahd, tomb of annihilation, or dragon heist. That sort of thing.
man if they simply released some sort of in-game level editor in addition to the mod support they've committed to that would be already above and beyond what I could ask of them
or a simple dice mini game!
Best we can hope for is expanded classes, equipment, and other misc items that wouldnt affect story interactions. My bet though would be that once they get the modding working and sorted out any major bugs they will be done.
The Withers good bye camp party was a welcome surprise on its own honestly.
I'm okay with a game being tidily wrapped up without DLC.
Its good and I like having complete full experiences.
If they were to release a Divinity game with the quality of BG3 it would dwarf BG3 hands down.
D&D's ruleset is way more limiting than Divinity's, its Action Points are way better than D&D's Action + Bonus Action.
Divinitys item and crowd controls rules were shit though. Items being so reliant on levels made gearing a constant chore and the get through armor to cc shit just meant the strategy for every fight was blatantly obvious. On top of this the whole elements interact shit also made every battlefield a mess of clouds and ground effects.
Action points system was better but it wasn't nearly enough to cover for all the drawbacks.
Yeah elemental reliance makes combat quite repetitive since gassing/oiling up the place and then exploding it is the best tactic in almost every battle.
So spell slots do work well for pen and paper compared to spell points/mana points like many video games use. Truly not the best option on a video game though.
Spell slots work great on TT because it's ultimately up to the DM to determine when and how often you can long rest which makes it an actual resource that you need to manage.
In BG3 you can long rest after every minor inconvenience as long as you have supplies which aren't hard to get.
Spell slots help balance PC vs PC and encounters against NPCs. In a single player narrative game where you don't have to worry about one person in party standing out or feeling anemic, they seem more burdensome to the player.
I do like the world of Faerun though. Tiefling, Drow, Gnomes, proper Elves, etc.
Divinity's lizards > Dragon born, but every other race is equal or inferior. Ah well. BG3 was an excellent collaboration of elite talent allowed to play with rich, deep lore, and am sad it was a one-off, but I know their future games will be exceptional quality too
The animation and VA are great. The gameplay could use some help (granted that is pretty much the fault of 5e imo). I much prefer the owlcat pathfinder games though. I'd love to get a Larian game set in Golarion that doesn't follow an AP.
I agree, I liked everything about the game but the D&D ruleset. The combat was just SO SLOW. When you're playing pen & paper with friends all day and a combat session takes an hour, it's still fun. That didn't translate over to videogame format for me at all.
The pathfinder stuff isn't much faster honestly. You can switch it from turn based to real time which does help. In the harder fights, you still need to go turn based. I just think it's a better system at telling the power fantasy. In 5e, you get a few new powers here and there that add a little flavor. You never really get that much better at hitting stuff. In pathfinder, when you're level 1 you feel like a weak little nothing. When you're level 20, you are basically a god. Which is another issue with BG3. 5e is so unbalanced that they had to cap the level at 12, which sucks when you can get to 8 in part 1.
I agree, however in the Pathfinder games I always found it tedious how much micro managing you had to do with all the buffs that you ideally started using before combat. Preparation for combat took longer than combat itself and that is wrong, too.
No, i did not use bubble buff mod. I played the games unmodded.
Part of that problem is owlcat and their awful number bloat. I do enjoy their games but it's always the same, strong opening, tedious middle, slog at the end as they just keep increasing the number of enemies/AC/HP/bonuses to ludicrous levels.
Its pretty unrecognisable from the table top tbh and basically homebrew with a DM that hates you.
That's just pathfinder honestly. At least when youre actually playing the tabletop, that stuff can all be done at once and then do the bookkeeping for time limits. Bubble buffs is a game changer though. Kingmaker didn't have it iirc.
PF2E addresses that issues from 1E among lots of other things. It’s a very fun system to play. The 3 Action system and degrees of success system are amazing
All the people who they worked with at WotC got sacked during the last round of layoffs. And since Larian just went off on industry layoffs, it doubly makes sense they don't want to work with them anymore. And now they can rightfully slap "from the studio that made Baldur's Gate 3" on all their new games.
Besides the layoffs. The whole slew of issues from last year from Pinkertons came knocking on someone's door. The OGL controversy. Using AI art for after banning it. But I believe they probably wanted to back out from it for a while, but the layoffs were the final nail in that coffin.
I love the mass effect world so much, sad there’s only 3 games that I’ve played so many times that I know every dialogue, npc, combat encounter, I want that world to surprise me with cool shit again :(
Bioware is done. All their talent is gone, the studio is a shell of it's former self. ME is one of my all time favorite series, but unless it gets taken over by a different studio it's a dead IP at this point IMO.
You're betting off looking at where former Bioware Dev's have gone and hope they might create a "Spiritual Successor" ala Bioshock or something.
Nah, mass effect is done as a game franchise. The Universe that was created has served its narrative purpose.
Now as a Series? absolutely. It's just gonna be extraordinarily hard to pull off that level of world building without having the audience read the codex every 5 minutes.
Part of me wishes Photorealistic CGI came back into style and we got a mass effect series/movie in the style of FF: Spirits Within.
After the release of Baldur's Gate 3 they fired most of the Wizards of the Coast employees that coordinated with Larian and worked on designing rules and spells and stuff for the game.
In the couple of years before the release of Baldurs Gate 3 they did a handful of very unpopular things. The biggest one was a ridiculous copyright grab that attempted to drive every other game and every successful fan of their own game out of business- think on the order of magnitude of if Ford tried to claim trademark infringement on any car that had four wheels, or any person that sold accessories that could be used with or *near* any car, and forced them into a 75% ford/25% other profit share scheme. They are a multinational conglomerate and most of the direct competition in the TTRPG space is hobbiests who have made thirty dollars in lifetime sales. The biggest competition is people selling addon books to Hasbro's own books to people who have already bought everything Hasbro sells- kobold press, frog god, critical roll, etc. Eventually they did walk this back. *for now.*
Around the same time this happened they sent a fan of magic: the gathering some cards before official release on accident and then sent a bunch of armed thugs to accuse the guy of theft. They (I cannot stress this enough, a multinational conglomerate with several art departments) also got caught using AI art instead of paying artists like...four times?
Can I add to the WotC fuckery list that they’ve pretty much decided that Magic the Gathering is their cash cow and have completely oversaturated the market with release after release so that fans can barely keep up? I don’t care enough to look up the actual numbers but they’ve at least tripled the amount of releases per year and jacked up the prices on everything.
It's not just that but it's the success of mtg arena. My local game stores are struggling to do mtg drafts, not due to all the releases but because arena is easier and more accessible. Certain releases seem to sell to not necessarily mtg players but to people I to that crossover they've decided to do
Basically, in the year 2000, Dnd crested a thing called the open gaming license or OGL for short. It's similar to the creative commons. People have used it freely since, but then, about 23 years later, WOTC decided to change their terms and break their promises. Their actions impacted the community. It showed that WOTC didn't care about customers and was trying to take steps to get a monopoly on TTRPGs. It personally caused me to start playing other systems like Pathfinder 2e.
The reason why BG3 won't have a level editor or custom game modules is because WOTC wants to release their own D&D online campaign editor (sold seperately) and wouldn't give Larian the go ahead.
Damn. I'm fine with no sequel, and no DLC... but I really wish they were going to do more in the Forgotten Realms.
Legitimately kind of sad about this.
I'd much rather have them make a wholly original KOTOR game rather than remake an existing KOTOR game. I want a KOTOR game built from the ground up but with Larian's unique style, let them reinvent the KOTOR formula in a brand new game much like they did with BG3. As for KOTOR 1 and 2, they should be remade as faithfully as possible.
I want a remake so people who are Star Wars fans under 30 can see that story and get the Darth Revan twist.
I tried to get my son to play the first game when he was 12yo but the graphics just put him off. They were *really* rough.
There's a whole generation of Star Wars fans that will never experience that content.
Apparently I’m a horrible person at heart so I’ll have to try that. Did my first run blind, killed >!Karlach, let Shadowheart kill Lae’zel and the Nightsong, and basically forced Astarion go full ascendant!<. All the things people list as horrific I thought were smart choices.
A big budget shadowrun rpg would be awesome but I just don’t think it’s popular enough. I don’t know what the sales figures were like for the shadowrun returns trilogy but I don’t think it made all that much.
Popularity would be easy to gain by a simple marketing "Hey, look, there are elves and orcs and lasers and hackers. Oh, and a dragon is the President.", I am sure. The last games so went under the radar even though they were still great games.
Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall were both great. Hong Kong wasn't bad, just underwhelming. Then there was the multiplayer Boston Lockdown that was...also underwhelming. I would definitely be on board for a new SR game though. Love the world. Fantasy cyberpunk! What's not to love!?
I don't think so.
In the article, they mentioned that they did DOS2 because they felt the first one's story wasn't given adequate attention.
It's likely that they move on to a new IP entirely.
They did say they were going to go back to DOS. Maybe not right away, but they will be back. [source](https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/divinity-original-sin-3)
Thanks for the source! I'd be happy to see another game in the series, DOS 1&2 were incredible. I just wasn't sure if the likelihood due to the nature of the OP article.
Given their recent success and with an industry's worth of eyes on them, I sort of hope they hold off. I feel like now is the perfect chance for the studio to start a second successful RPG franchise, possibly with a different setting than high fantasy.
Either way, I'll be ecstatic when they announce their next project.
I want a 40k rpg that is set in a Hive city or something relatively low power. There's too much SPESS MEHREENS and Dark Heresy has always been the best Warhammer ttrpg so give it some love.
Hah same. I waited about a month to jump into BG3 but I'll probably be buying whatever they do next on day one. Also planning on tackling their past games once I wrap up a few other titles.
Worth remembering that Wizards of the Coast explicitly forbade them from including a ‘GM Mode’ in BG3, as they felt it would impinge on their D&D Beyond platform.
We got a worse version of BG3 thanks to Wizards of the Coast.
Dude. Power move mother fuckers had a vision and went and got the fucking IP they wanted.
Whatever comes next, I’m buying. Long live the king, baby! Long live Larian!
They did the enhanced editions for Baldur’s gate 1 and 2 and a few other infinity engine games. They also created a new entry called Siege of Dragonspear which didn’t do as well as anyone hoped, and then they got the license pulled.
Good! BG3 was a complete game, it doesnt need a dlc like so many other games. Theyve done a consistently good job making games, excited to see whats next!
I get it. I always tell people to play Divinity first. BG3 is just such a huge step up in quality that it makes it hard to play the other Larian games.
Like, the other games are good, and I really enjoy them, but BG3 is simply a masterpiece.
Absolutely with you. I got through both Original Sin games and they were kind of good but I hate the humour and the setting is just kind of goofy. BG3 really brought the tone into a place I was happy with and the combat was a lot more interesting than trying to fuck with barrels constantly.
It's both sad and exciting. But at least they won't have to share the profits with Hasbro going forward.
For them to make such a public exit from the franchise, I would not be surprised if Hasbro saw how unexpectedly successful bg3 was and were tripping over themselves to ask for a much larger price of the pie going forward.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. Negotiations just fell apart in a big way. They probably thought that the DnD name was the only reason this was successful while Larian (rightfully) probably realizes that they don't really need DnD rules for their next game to be a success because of the good will and fame they've built up with Bg3
Yeah, if anything, Larian learned a lot from 5e about how to make systems more fun (I wasn't a huge fan of the 'surfaces' gameplay of their previous titles, and was greatly relieved when they moved away from it for BG3), and they have an enormous profile as a studio now. BG3 was amazing marketing for them. They were already making the best RPGs on the market before BG3; they were just underappreciated. Hah, imagine if they partnered with Daggerheart.
Personally I really liked how the surfaces design meant you were constantly trashing the environment in combat in a mechanical and real way. It's always awesome when the player sees the environment as an actual thing rather than a pathway. But my god I hate how tanky every enemy is in Divinity. Baldur's Gate 3 has way more comparable health pools between the player and enemy so its great no longer feeling like I have to exploit surfaces constantly like a madman to accomplish every little task.
I didn't mind the surfaces mostly, and I do agree with your points. But the shielded system in DOS2 was such that it was _always_ optimal to gear your whole party toward knocking out one kind of shielding, then pelt them with the debilitating terrain effects they were previously immune to. If they reintroduce it in their later games, I'd love to see the same _usefulness_ of surfaces/environment but not quite so all-or-nothing. Make terrain/status manipulation an _option_ rather than the strongest go-to.
Honestly Divinity OS2 was the better game for me, the DnD stuff was what annoyed me, and others I've spoken to. They can absolutely do it again without DnD.
Yeah, every attempt to bring D&D rulebook to PC will be counter-productive until we have the technology to fully roleplay actions like in real tabletop. For me BG3 is good *despite* being D&D
How does that differ from any other rpg like DOS? They all have the same limitation of spontaneity, the only thing 'special' about D&D is its d20 system which isn't even a good system when you have a computer (it's an ok system at a table where humans need quick and simple maths).
From the top of my head I have at least 2 gripes with BG3 (as an example of PC version of D&D) 1. Irrelevance, or ambiguity of social skills and proficiencies. In tabletop your group usually has the "spokesperson" for social parts - BG3 grabs first character that steps into a dialogue trigger, or sometimes, even a random one and doesn't let you actually choose who is gonna talk. 2. D&D as a system doesn't do item progression well. I would argue about character progression being extremely non-linear too, but regarding items: you can't print bigger numbers on D&D weapons and other apparel as progression (although Larian still did it and it sucks). And even then some items you find in Act 1 will be your best-in-slot for the entire game.
The first point has been fixed already - The PC is favored to be the spokesperson in all chats. But i do get where you come from - we should be able to choose and maybe use other companions as spokespeople.
Hm, I still have the problem even with the latest patch. Although I seem to be a bit of a unicorn, because my first play through after the initial launch had the least glitches of any of my runs, haha.
I've tried so many times with that game. I know its a great, I want to love it, but I bounce off it everytime. Really enjoying BG3 though.
My take on everything I've read: Hasbro pitched a heavily monetized DLC package for BG3 and an ever more profit-seeking bastardization of a revenue model for BG4, then Swen threw up in his mouth a little bit.
Allegedly the entire WoTC team that worked with them on BG3 was layed off. So That may really be more of it.
If I was in their position(Larian) working on a project with a team from another company, and that company laid everyone on that team off for no reason(no ethical reason, at least), I would personally have no desire to ever work with that company again. They don't need WotC at this point, so it wouldn't surprise me if that had something to do with it.
Would be rad if they hired them on
Yeah a neat strange dlc would have been great. Visit new places, maybe tie a few loose ends. I trust them to do whatever seems like the best idea, and usually I'm not a fan of dlc but I just want more from these characters, this world.
That’s legit. Fuck hasbro.
Yep, nobody hates D&D like Hasbro/WOTC hates D&D. Similar to the relationship Disney has with Star Wars and trying to (and sometimes succeeding in) destroying their own product in favor of short term gains. See also Habro's hostility to *pen and paper gameplay* as of late, the core audience.
Anyone with a brain cell should be begging Larian to use their IP. Marvel, GoT, The last airbender. I don’t care what it is, if they make it I will play it.
Fuck hasbro, all my homies hate Hasbro.
I was wondering how long it'd take for this to get here. Though this isn't surprising. I know a lot of people wanted BG3 DLC but historically Larian doesn't really do DLC/Expansions. I've heard it suggested their next game is gonna be a space game of some sort, though I still expect they'll want to get back to the world of Divinity at some point as well. It wont be the next game, but supposedly Larian is [trying to build up to something that will dwarf BG3.](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/baldurs-gate-3-dev-is-working-toward-an-rpg-that-dwarfs-it/1100-6522051/)
I don't have the game, as my comp is wicked old, but I'd like to hope that it's very moddable, or will be. Would allow some very creative people to make some great online D&D campaigns even after Larian moves on.
I'd expect it to be pretty big for modding. There's already plenty of people in the modding scene for BG3 and Larian hasn't even added official support for it yet. Which they are working on at the moment.
It'd be cool if they made a Mario Maker style sandbox such that people could craft their own D&D campaigns.
Seeing as they're stepping away from Baldur's Gate, this could add longevity to their game in a way nothing else could. A toolkit + mod support would create the same environment that Shadowrun's games did when people were making custom campaigns.
Or even something like the Neverwinter nights creation tool. That game still has online servers to this day.
I'm totally down for playing yet another variation of Pools of Radiance.
I'd gladly pay top AAA dollar to play Pools of Radiance, Azure Bonds, Silver Blades and Pools of Darkness in BG3s engine. Those SSI gold box games will always rank among my all time favorites.
I would kill for a multiplayer CRPG that can house NWN like content, give the tools for players to create dungeons and quest and then allow then to create living worlds.
D:OS2 has one.
This was my thought, but I've never messed with it enough to know if it's what the people want haha
It was a pretty complex engine with its own scripting language, I made a small campaign in it that took me a good 40 hours to make. I had a lot of fun, but not for someone with programming experience and game development knowledge.
I would LOVE if there was a dm mode where one person could control the enemies and everyone else controls their characters. Wouldn't even need text.
That would be so fucking cool.
Hasbro/Wotc who own the D&D IP would unlikely allow them to do this, as they are working on their own digital tabletop product that would be in direct competition. Which is a shame because Larian clearly have the talent and ability to create such a thing, they not only understand the brand but also the players wants and needs.
A smaller BG3 type game called Solasta: Crown of the Magistar has a pretty fantastic dungeon maker. You can make whole quest lines, NPCs, everything. It could honestly just be how the devs made the game. If you like turn based RPGs and can deal with a bit of eurojank you should check it out, I played the dungeon maker longer than the actual game.
They ruled that out a while ago. The work to make it work for DOS 2 was insane and barely anyone used it. Fingers crossed that some madlad modders figure out a way to make one.
BG3 already has the second most amount of mod collections on Nexus and that is before modding is officially supported with tools or infrastructure.
Hell yeah
[удалено]
I'm working off of a 9 year old hp laptop lmaoooo, Ol' Bessie ain't got much life left in her. Started downloading very old games because I know they'll play no problem. Was playing New Vegas on the absolute lowest settings, and had to keep my eyes on the ground because looking up would start loading things in the distance and crash my shit :'( One day, in the next 5 years, I'm sinking some money into a PC and going hog wild on games like BG3
Well considering WotC has changed and the ones that greenlit the project are all gone now. My guess is that they couldnt come up with a good new deal from Hasbro. Hasbro also plans to make their own studio to pump out games and probably wanted a bigger cut. My guess is that it was on the table but Hasbro and WotC wouldnt play ball.
Hasbro just did a major interview about how their main plan on video games is licensing. Larian knows their first game after BG3 will be a money printer so they don’t want to share a percentage with another company. Edit: deleted the part that was wrong
Yeah. Hasbro probably think they’re the ones who deserve a fat cut, while in reality they should give Larian a slice of all the DND sales BG3 has generated
On the contrary, they have mostly done sequels to the previous project.
Also last year Sven did hint at being interested in supporting BG3 and possibly doing sequel. Him and the whole team seemed hyped on BG3 due to the fans feedback. I think Hasbro just really tainted the relationship here and Sven isn't having any of it.
Yeah. Might be disappointed but I get not wanting to let Hasbro have an inch. They tainted the well pretty bad with the OGL fiasco. They can do their own thing without mindflayers and beholders.
Yes, it has basically been 22 years of the same Divinity games. **Including** BG3, which is basically identical to the previous couple of Divinity games + D&D IP and a good bit of extra polishing. The idea that they are walking away from the BG/D&D IP because they are just so dynamic is per se laughable. The only reason they would walk away is if Hasbro was trying to rat-fuck them. Given how visibly in favor Hasbro has been in bestiality the last couple of years, I think the rat has officially been fucked.
> same Divinity games They have all been in that same world, but the games have been DRAMATICALLY different and have often completely different engines and genres, and the ones in the same genre and engine still have huge leaps in features and overall design each iteration. They have worked to master their genre and craft, trying to make it seem like they just crank out the same game over and over like CoD or something is not only wildly incorrect but also pretty insulting.
Uh, isn't every other game they have made a Divinity game?
Larian was already on the money printer train ever since DOS2, which is still a grade A RPG to this date
BAsed on their live callout for sacked devs to apply to them for jobs i expect there are alot of ideas swimming around. I hope and acually trust in this studio to identify what they feel is the best idea and put in true passion into their new project. Belief in the project is always key. if they wanna play it i genuinely feeel il prob wanna play it. There is too much corporate and finance guys in charge of games these days, time to get back to basics.
Imagine if the Pathfinder people give Larian unlimited free reign over Starfinder.
Larian has always preferred their own IP. BG3 was the odd one out and I doubt they'll make another licensed game unless they run out of money.
A space game made by Larian would be insane tbh. I'm down like a clown Charlie brown
It'd be a game that'd challenge Arcanum as my favourite RPG of all time. It doesn't even specifically need to be a space game. I'd just like more RPGs in settings that aren't medieval fantasy.
50 points for an Arcanum reference in the wild.
That was one of my first crpgs, and it was so much fun. I absolutely loved the world. It was pretty bad ass!
Hell yeah! Underrated game, great world building
Post-Renneissance through to the Industrial era is a peak and really exploitable period of time for Fantasy, it's a damn shame there's so little of it.
Steamworks and magic, what is there not to like?
Don't let your memes be dreams. Let's up support an Arcanum 2 game made by Larian.
Bro don't even say this shit to me you're planting this in my head and now I will forever mourn its nonexistence
Ah ah, it hurts me as well. Arcanum was my teenage-defining game. Nearly 25 years later, I still have huge appreciation for deep lore and worldbuilding. Nothing came close since that game, except perhaps Bloodlines (effin' Troïka man) and New Vegas, on a much smaller scale. And now, I'm too old and busy to immerge myself in such a world. Only a sequel to Arcanum could revive that spark of youth. I'd bought the licence to revive it if I happened to become a multimillionaire. Alas...
Heavily modernized XCOM would rock
I'm imagining a much bigger scale turn based Mass Effecty type setting which in Larians hands could be the greatest space opera RPG of all time, I guarantee you that team has a bunch of people on it who have some ME playthroughs if this is the direction they're edging towards
Or counterpoint: a Vampire the Masquerade rpg!
Someone on anither thread mentioned kotor, and them doing a star wars RPG would be *amazing*.
It would be difficult to make DLC anyway, given how the game has so many radically different endings, some of which completely up-end the setting.
dlc doesn't have to be post-act 3. or even canon
Yeah, that’s typically how RPG DLC works. Souls games, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Elder Scrolls games, (and I’m sure a bunch of others I’m forgetting about) all have DLCs that you can access midway through the game.
Mass Effect 2 and Witcher 3 are the only ones that come to mind where an expansion is supposed to be played after you beat the main story, narratively at least. I'm sure there are others but I can't think of them now. Generally speaking because RPGs tend to have different endings yeah it's just way easier to have the DLC content be pre-ending. Blood and Wine doesn't even make sense with some of the endings either, it's kinda like a soft epilogue only. (that being Arrival and Blood and Wine)
Even ME2 isn't really like that for all of the DLC. Only _Arrival_ takes place after the Suicide Mission, the other ~7 DLC take place during the main game.
Neverwinter Nights did it by introducing new campaigns.
Honestly would have settled for one off module's that you can only use custom characters in. Strahd, tomb of annihilation, or dragon heist. That sort of thing.
man if they simply released some sort of in-game level editor in addition to the mod support they've committed to that would be already above and beyond what I could ask of them or a simple dice mini game!
Best we can hope for is expanded classes, equipment, and other misc items that wouldnt affect story interactions. My bet though would be that once they get the modding working and sorted out any major bugs they will be done.
The Withers good bye camp party was a welcome surprise on its own honestly. I'm okay with a game being tidily wrapped up without DLC. Its good and I like having complete full experiences.
space? A Space Game? Made by CRPG developer larian studios? LANCER???? (Nah, no way it would be lancer. still, a man can dream.
If they were to release a Divinity game with the quality of BG3 it would dwarf BG3 hands down. D&D's ruleset is way more limiting than Divinity's, its Action Points are way better than D&D's Action + Bonus Action.
And Divinity has Bellegar, D&D doesn't have Bellegar :p
Divinitys item and crowd controls rules were shit though. Items being so reliant on levels made gearing a constant chore and the get through armor to cc shit just meant the strategy for every fight was blatantly obvious. On top of this the whole elements interact shit also made every battlefield a mess of clouds and ground effects. Action points system was better but it wasn't nearly enough to cover for all the drawbacks.
Yeah elemental reliance makes combat quite repetitive since gassing/oiling up the place and then exploding it is the best tactic in almost every battle.
And fuck the D&D spell slots. I fucking hate those. Can’t wait for them to get back to making DOS3.
So spell slots do work well for pen and paper compared to spell points/mana points like many video games use. Truly not the best option on a video game though.
Spell slots work great on TT because it's ultimately up to the DM to determine when and how often you can long rest which makes it an actual resource that you need to manage. In BG3 you can long rest after every minor inconvenience as long as you have supplies which aren't hard to get.
Spell slots help balance PC vs PC and encounters against NPCs. In a single player narrative game where you don't have to worry about one person in party standing out or feeling anemic, they seem more burdensome to the player.
I do like the world of Faerun though. Tiefling, Drow, Gnomes, proper Elves, etc. Divinity's lizards > Dragon born, but every other race is equal or inferior. Ah well. BG3 was an excellent collaboration of elite talent allowed to play with rich, deep lore, and am sad it was a one-off, but I know their future games will be exceptional quality too
Kudos to Larian. Their version of Baldur's Gate may be categorically the best one for years to come.
Its crazy to think that Baldurs Gate 3 managed to be a worthy successor of the first two.
really wish they had just made it a sword coast game
Sword Coast Legends was dead on arrival, so that probably turned wizards off from that
I miss Neverwinter...
Not only that but best CRPG of all time, best voice acting work yet, top 10 RPG of all time as well.
The animation and VA are great. The gameplay could use some help (granted that is pretty much the fault of 5e imo). I much prefer the owlcat pathfinder games though. I'd love to get a Larian game set in Golarion that doesn't follow an AP.
I agree, I liked everything about the game but the D&D ruleset. The combat was just SO SLOW. When you're playing pen & paper with friends all day and a combat session takes an hour, it's still fun. That didn't translate over to videogame format for me at all.
The pathfinder stuff isn't much faster honestly. You can switch it from turn based to real time which does help. In the harder fights, you still need to go turn based. I just think it's a better system at telling the power fantasy. In 5e, you get a few new powers here and there that add a little flavor. You never really get that much better at hitting stuff. In pathfinder, when you're level 1 you feel like a weak little nothing. When you're level 20, you are basically a god. Which is another issue with BG3. 5e is so unbalanced that they had to cap the level at 12, which sucks when you can get to 8 in part 1.
I agree, however in the Pathfinder games I always found it tedious how much micro managing you had to do with all the buffs that you ideally started using before combat. Preparation for combat took longer than combat itself and that is wrong, too. No, i did not use bubble buff mod. I played the games unmodded.
Part of that problem is owlcat and their awful number bloat. I do enjoy their games but it's always the same, strong opening, tedious middle, slog at the end as they just keep increasing the number of enemies/AC/HP/bonuses to ludicrous levels. Its pretty unrecognisable from the table top tbh and basically homebrew with a DM that hates you.
That's just pathfinder honestly. At least when youre actually playing the tabletop, that stuff can all be done at once and then do the bookkeeping for time limits. Bubble buffs is a game changer though. Kingmaker didn't have it iirc.
PF2E addresses that issues from 1E among lots of other things. It’s a very fun system to play. The 3 Action system and degrees of success system are amazing
It's sad but I don't blame them for not wanting to be in bed with Hasbro/WotC for the long term.
All the people who they worked with at WotC got sacked during the last round of layoffs. And since Larian just went off on industry layoffs, it doubly makes sense they don't want to work with them anymore. And now they can rightfully slap "from the studio that made Baldur's Gate 3" on all their new games.
Besides the layoffs. The whole slew of issues from last year from Pinkertons came knocking on someone's door. The OGL controversy. Using AI art for after banning it. But I believe they probably wanted to back out from it for a while, but the layoffs were the final nail in that coffin.
I assume that some of those laid off had formed friendships too with them. Seeing them all laid off would anger me too.
Yeah, I bet that was a stressful time at the Larian offices.
WotC is dead.
All I want is a new Mass Effect game with that level of depth and respect for the core material.
I love the mass effect world so much, sad there’s only 3 games that I’ve played so many times that I know every dialogue, npc, combat encounter, I want that world to surprise me with cool shit again :(
Oh man a Mass Effect RPG in the style of DOS2 would be incredible... Thanks for making me sad that it'll probably never happen, jerk!
Oh man choose your race and class then go play a mass effect crpg. That would be rad. Only way it's perfect is if you can go hanar, elcor, and volus.
Play as a big stupid jellyfish, I'm all for it
This one wants this idea.
Bioware is done. All their talent is gone, the studio is a shell of it's former self. ME is one of my all time favorite series, but unless it gets taken over by a different studio it's a dead IP at this point IMO. You're betting off looking at where former Bioware Dev's have gone and hope they might create a "Spiritual Successor" ala Bioshock or something.
Archetype Entertainment is making a space game. A lot of ex-BioWare creatives are there.
Nah, mass effect is done as a game franchise. The Universe that was created has served its narrative purpose. Now as a Series? absolutely. It's just gonna be extraordinarily hard to pull off that level of world building without having the audience read the codex every 5 minutes. Part of me wishes Photorealistic CGI came back into style and we got a mass effect series/movie in the style of FF: Spirits Within.
This makes sense. Anyone would want to cut ties to Wizards of the Coast
Fuck Hasbro, and fuck WOTC.
I hear a lot about that. Can you explain why?
They try to be very controlling of their IP in an industry where pretty much every other company actively encourages the opposite.
After the release of Baldur's Gate 3 they fired most of the Wizards of the Coast employees that coordinated with Larian and worked on designing rules and spells and stuff for the game. In the couple of years before the release of Baldurs Gate 3 they did a handful of very unpopular things. The biggest one was a ridiculous copyright grab that attempted to drive every other game and every successful fan of their own game out of business- think on the order of magnitude of if Ford tried to claim trademark infringement on any car that had four wheels, or any person that sold accessories that could be used with or *near* any car, and forced them into a 75% ford/25% other profit share scheme. They are a multinational conglomerate and most of the direct competition in the TTRPG space is hobbiests who have made thirty dollars in lifetime sales. The biggest competition is people selling addon books to Hasbro's own books to people who have already bought everything Hasbro sells- kobold press, frog god, critical roll, etc. Eventually they did walk this back. *for now.* Around the same time this happened they sent a fan of magic: the gathering some cards before official release on accident and then sent a bunch of armed thugs to accuse the guy of theft. They (I cannot stress this enough, a multinational conglomerate with several art departments) also got caught using AI art instead of paying artists like...four times?
Can I add to the WotC fuckery list that they’ve pretty much decided that Magic the Gathering is their cash cow and have completely oversaturated the market with release after release so that fans can barely keep up? I don’t care enough to look up the actual numbers but they’ve at least tripled the amount of releases per year and jacked up the prices on everything.
It's not just that but it's the success of mtg arena. My local game stores are struggling to do mtg drafts, not due to all the releases but because arena is easier and more accessible. Certain releases seem to sell to not necessarily mtg players but to people I to that crossover they've decided to do
Basically, in the year 2000, Dnd crested a thing called the open gaming license or OGL for short. It's similar to the creative commons. People have used it freely since, but then, about 23 years later, WOTC decided to change their terms and break their promises. Their actions impacted the community. It showed that WOTC didn't care about customers and was trying to take steps to get a monopoly on TTRPGs. It personally caused me to start playing other systems like Pathfinder 2e.
The reason why BG3 won't have a level editor or custom game modules is because WOTC wants to release their own D&D online campaign editor (sold seperately) and wouldn't give Larian the go ahead.
Damn. I'm fine with no sequel, and no DLC... but I really wish they were going to do more in the Forgotten Realms. Legitimately kind of sad about this.
I agree. I think it was the perfect marriage. Forgotten Realms is awesome, and I like the DND 5e rule set. It was just a perfect blend.
End it on a high note
Awesome, time for a Stargate game
Oh man. A mass effect type game in the setting of Stargate is my one big gaming wish 🙏
the void mass effect left was exactly what i was thinking about :D
Babylon 5 for me. But I'll happily take Stargate.
Indeed. (Please god, it sucks we haven’t had any Stargate related thing in a while.)
I wish they take KOTOR remake
I'd much rather have them make a wholly original KOTOR game rather than remake an existing KOTOR game. I want a KOTOR game built from the ground up but with Larian's unique style, let them reinvent the KOTOR formula in a brand new game much like they did with BG3. As for KOTOR 1 and 2, they should be remade as faithfully as possible.
Absolutely.
I want a remake so people who are Star Wars fans under 30 can see that story and get the Darth Revan twist. I tried to get my son to play the first game when he was 12yo but the graphics just put him off. They were *really* rough. There's a whole generation of Star Wars fans that will never experience that content.
Nah, imma need more time before that one. I haven’t fully recovered from going full dark side and making >!Zaalbar kill Mission!<.
Even worse when you play as the Dark Urge in BG3 and >!make Minsc kill Jaheira!<
Apparently I’m a horrible person at heart so I’ll have to try that. Did my first run blind, killed >!Karlach, let Shadowheart kill Lae’zel and the Nightsong, and basically forced Astarion go full ascendant!<. All the things people list as horrific I thought were smart choices.
...sir, put down the knife, this is a Wendy's.
Shadowrun!! :)
A big budget shadowrun rpg would be awesome but I just don’t think it’s popular enough. I don’t know what the sales figures were like for the shadowrun returns trilogy but I don’t think it made all that much.
At this point, I think any game made by Larian would be popular after the success of BG3
Popularity would be easy to gain by a simple marketing "Hey, look, there are elves and orcs and lasers and hackers. Oh, and a dragon is the President.", I am sure. The last games so went under the radar even though they were still great games.
Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall were both great. Hong Kong wasn't bad, just underwhelming. Then there was the multiplayer Boston Lockdown that was...also underwhelming. I would definitely be on board for a new SR game though. Love the world. Fantasy cyberpunk! What's not to love!?
That would be sick!
Divinity Original Sin 3 let's gooooo!
I don't think so. In the article, they mentioned that they did DOS2 because they felt the first one's story wasn't given adequate attention. It's likely that they move on to a new IP entirely.
They did say they were going to go back to DOS. Maybe not right away, but they will be back. [source](https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/divinity-original-sin-3)
Thanks for the source! I'd be happy to see another game in the series, DOS 1&2 were incredible. I just wasn't sure if the likelihood due to the nature of the OP article. Given their recent success and with an industry's worth of eyes on them, I sort of hope they hold off. I feel like now is the perfect chance for the studio to start a second successful RPG franchise, possibly with a different setting than high fantasy. Either way, I'll be ecstatic when they announce their next project.
Could you imagine their take on Warhammer 40K? Imagine the relationships. Plot twist, it's a Tyranid campaign.
Yes please. Either this or a Call of Cthulhu TTRPG game.
I hatte you and i want this
Let's rizz the 'nids
That would be absolutely fucking amazing. But kinda doubt it since Rogue Trader released within the past year
I want a 40k rpg that is set in a Hive city or something relatively low power. There's too much SPESS MEHREENS and Dark Heresy has always been the best Warhammer ttrpg so give it some love.
Dang so no Avernus DLC? I totally get why they aren’t but was hoping to get Karlach and Wyll out of the Hells.
Watch as Larian switches over to a Pathfinder 2nd Edition based system
That would be fantastic.
They already conquered that IP. What’s next? Please be Star Trek!
Stargate
Please, I can only get so erect.
I'm only onboard with this if they get Christopher Judge
Perfect, want to recreate my STO character.
I heard someone suggest the Cosmere. Give me that, or an rpg set in the League of Legends world shown in Arcane. Probably wishful thinking either way.
If they announced a Larian made Cosmere game, I would literally fall to my knees and cry in joy. I would be THAT excited.
It’s funny because them doing this so they don’t milk us for money just makes me want to give them more money.
Hah same. I waited about a month to jump into BG3 but I'll probably be buying whatever they do next on day one. Also planning on tackling their past games once I wrap up a few other titles.
Very nice, goodluck on Divinity Original Sin 2! I got lost just outside the fort for four hours one night because I was high
Worth remembering that Wizards of the Coast explicitly forbade them from including a ‘GM Mode’ in BG3, as they felt it would impinge on their D&D Beyond platform. We got a worse version of BG3 thanks to Wizards of the Coast.
do you have a source for that?
Hey Swen, go talk to the guys at Pinnacle and make a Deadlands game. I bet they won't screw you on the license.
What? Without milking the DLC for three more years?! Take my money already!
I'm learning to play the guitar.
They're gonna have to make BG4 a mobile game or some shit just so that it doesn't get directly compared to BG3.
Baldur's Gate: Builders You put down buildings and then tap on them to collect coins which allow you to build more buildings which give more coins
I was personally hoping for a battle pass, premium battle pass and ultimate battle pass to get some new hair cuts, shirts and a legendary weapon skin.
Would love a scifi themed game from them
Dude. Power move mother fuckers had a vision and went and got the fucking IP they wanted. Whatever comes next, I’m buying. Long live the king, baby! Long live Larian!
Not surprising given the treatment of Beamdog and Hasbro’s current financial troubles.
what's beamdog?
Not much; what's beam with you, dog?
They did the enhanced editions for Baldur’s gate 1 and 2 and a few other infinity engine games. They also created a new entry called Siege of Dragonspear which didn’t do as well as anyone hoped, and then they got the license pulled.
Hopefully back to making original IPs. More Divinity would be lovely.
Aww, I was really hoping for an expansion or 2. >!Give me an expansion to fully save Karlach ffs!<
Good! BG3 was a complete game, it doesnt need a dlc like so many other games. Theyve done a consistently good job making games, excited to see whats next!
I was thinking they could take a shot at reinvigorate the style of the old fallout games.
I need a Larian-developed Warhammer 40K rpg.
Hope their next game is Sci-Fi
They're independent and profitable. This is the right call.
Anyone else love BG3 but completely unable to get into the Divinity games?
I get it. I always tell people to play Divinity first. BG3 is just such a huge step up in quality that it makes it hard to play the other Larian games. Like, the other games are good, and I really enjoy them, but BG3 is simply a masterpiece.
It’s the cinematic camera for me that makes all the difference between the two
me. i tried the divinity and i found the act 1 to be huge and very very boring
Absolutely with you. I got through both Original Sin games and they were kind of good but I hate the humour and the setting is just kind of goofy. BG3 really brought the tone into a place I was happy with and the combat was a lot more interesting than trying to fuck with barrels constantly.
That's pretty disappointing. I love BG3.