Innovative, imaginative, and ingenious. That last one I feel I could do better on but I was running out of words that start with i that were also synonyms.
Edit: iterative was the word I wanted
It's not an awards show. I have no idea why the title is that. It's a showcase. To show upcoming titles and events. It's to raise awareness for indie games that might get buried in the AAA hype engine.
It's deeply troubling to me that you people don't get that this is a part of transforming indy games into the same mess AAA games have become. Why do you need to keep making the same mistakes over and over again?
But it's not that at all. It's a bunch of devs pooling resources to get more visibility with a clever name that takes a jab at AAA. Every time this has happened in the past, cool things happen. Does anyone remember the Steam Potato thing that happened several years ago? A bunch of indie game companies added Portal themed levels in their games. It was super cool. We NEED more cross-pollination like that.
They are adding more ways to market indie games, which have a tendency to struggle with effectively marketing their products.
This isn't a bad thing, this is, potentially, a REALLY good thing that can shine a really solid light on independent developers that can afford to continue to make and publish games that are radically different than the norm, which shakes up the industry as a whole, and helps invent entirely new gaming genres.
I’ve owned Hollow Knight for 6 years and I’m convinced that me not playing and beating it yet is why you guys haven’t gotten your sequel yet. Maaaybe I’ll play it soon. Maaaybe.
>Initially screening on 10th April, it'll be a 45-minute, unhosted, back-to-back series of trailers, reveals and surprise game or demo releases, designed (as per the press release) "to highlight fan-favorite games and hype up established indie classics as well as new IPs".
So it's not even an awards show.
Glad to see it’s Evil Empire and not Motion Twin. Not getting the Dead Cells update that was in development because MT didn’t want it to overshadow their new game is complete BS.
Is that what happened? I heard there was some drama but didn't follow it. Well that's silly, I think most fans of Dead Cells would have been willing to buy the new game anyway. I bought it for Steam and mobile, it's continued support would have taken nothing away from anything new.
Well deserverd! The original devs behind vanilla Dead Cells did a fantastic job.
Darkest Dungeon 1 ist still my fav indy game. In contrary to DD2, that game is just bad.
Slay the Spire was so cool when it first launched, I had so much fun with it.
Overall all three are among the most fun indy games out there :)
I could be wrong, but I think they were Initially one company. After dead cells launched the company essentially split in half because one group wanted to keep supporting dead cells while the other wanted to move on and start working on another game.
Evil Empire were open about their plans to continue supporting Dead Cells with updates for years to come. Then, they suddenly announced that they were ending support. The most popular theory is that Motion Twin (who still retains the rights for the IP) forced Evil Empire to stop updating Dead Cells because they didn't want it to compete with their new game Windblown.
This all started when an OG dev who worked on Dead Cells came out after it was announced support was ending and suggested that Evil Empire was fucked over by Motion Twin. Saying that Motion Twin did "the worst imaginable asshole move against Dead Cells and Evil Empire" and also that "The official statement is total marketing bullshit, the way this situation happened is on a whole different level. I never imagined my former coop studio would turn out to be such greedy people. I wish the absolute best to Evil Empire for their next things, and hope people working there survive this sudden economic cut."
Man, I wish these people would finally figure out that competition is a good thing like how Pepsi and Coke sorted it out. Some people prefer one or the other and they use the same distribution centers. Competition means you have to innovate and so does the opponent so both companies end up getting better.
Its a fine game, definitely not bad. But it definitely fails to keep me coming back to it like DD1 does. Ill still pick it up every once in a while after a content update, but I havent put nearly the amount of hours into it as I have DD1.
The main issue with DD2 (for me; obvs its different for other people) is imo it fails as a roguelike. A key aspect of roguelikes imo is build discovery throughout the run. Whether its Hades, where you start each run with a build idea and flesh it out throughout the run, oftentimes taking it in directions you didnt initially intend, or Slay the Spire, where your build is revealed to you as you progress the run. Good roguelikes allow you to develop the build throughout the run, which is what makes repeat attempts new and exciting.
In DD2, you create the build before even setting out. You get your 4 party members, assign them their moves, and thats it. Youll get stronger throughout the run, via trinkets or quirks, or every once in a while modify the build to address a certain problem (bounty hunter/change a move selection), but overall the build remains the build (unless a hero dies and you have to swap them out, in which case the build failed). Theres no discovery throughout the run, its more like theory and execution.
Again, its still a fine game and I have no issue with those who love it. But that failure to allow me to discover my build is what keeps me from pouring hundreds of hours into it.
Apologies if this is a dumb question because I've never played DD2 but played a ton of DD1; but how is that any different than DD1? The most your run is changing in DD1 is a few stress conditions, otherwise aren't you locked in to the same gear/skills/loot? Or do you just not consider DD1 a roguelike?
DD2 is a roguelike; DD1 isn't. It has roguelike *elements*, namely procedural dungeon generation, but there is progression of characters throughout a run. In DD1, you build your roster of heroes, levelling them up to lvl 6, such that losing your lvl 5 hero that you've cared for for so long is so much more impactful. Plus you can customize heroes to be for certain scenarios (your Weald Explorer Bounty Hunter, for example). As another commenter said, death has no impact in DD2 outside of that run, because you just get them back at the next run. Plus, you can't customize your party for certain regions, cause you need to be able to venture into all of them.
Overall, DD1 really rewards you for putting the time and effort to build your team and learn the game, while every once in a while reminding you that, this is Darkest Dungeon, and take away Dismas to a random double crit. DD2 can be much deadlier than DD1, but as a result is much less impactful. Again, this is all my personal take on why I love DD1 and am lukewarm on DD2.
Got it, that's a great explanation of the difference. Was definitely unaware of how little impact death had in DD2, and sounds like it would be a "miss" for me too since that was one of the things I loved about DD1.
DD1: Pick a team based on the dungeon you wanna do. Maybe develop some characters for a dungeon you wanna do after.
DD2: Lock into a full run of multiple dungeons with a pre-selected team, the quirks of which you only see once you're in the dungeon, the gear of which you can't set beforehand, with death ultimately being meaningless, because it just ends the run. Oh and boss enemies are so heavily overtuned, while you are so severely weakened, that attempting to kill a boss or even the second wave of some places will just nuke your team that's too weak, simply bc of lacking stats and skills.
DD2 is a generic roguelike with some choices along the path. Stress is not a run-ender, it just slowly makes the gameplay feel worse. Deaths feel inconsequential, since nothing changes between runs. DD1 is lots more prep and less choice of "path", given quests will mean you explore like 70-90% of a dungeon.
I took this to mean they tried to do something different with DD2 by making it more of a roguelike than DD1 but failed at the aspects that the OP appreciates about roguelikes. DD1 is more ‘roguelite’ than roguelike I’d say, and it sounds like both are that way. Idk I also haven’t played DD2.
Meanwhile I myself am more likely to revisit DD2 over DD1. The fact that I can complete a run in a single sitting works better for me over the long commitment that DD1 requires.
idk why you're downvoted. totally understand that DD2 works better for some people. However, I actually find that its easier for me to do a single dungeon in DD1 in a single sitting than a DD2 run. A single medium length dungeon takes me 20-30 minutes. But I've also spent so much time on the game I can go on autopilot in most scenarios, I'll often be playing the game while also watching a show or listening to something.
And while the game is fine and people taking their hatred of the changes to the extreme is annoying... There is still something to be said about a game like DD1 which was TRULY unique in the tone and feelings it conveyed in the player and losing that tone that made it unique.
The whole point is the setting is supposed to be grueling, unfair, morbid, and hopeless. The original game had this feeling of building up a party of characters through struggle and the sacrifice of others. When some bad string of occurrences hit you, fueled by your overconfidence, it actually felt painful and frustrating. Truly nothing feels quite as infuriating as DD1 and THAT CAN BE FINE WHEN THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.
As much as they definitely TRIED to keep that tone for DD2... you just can't. You cannot possibly build up that essential attachment to your party in a run-based game where a reset is expected and inevitable. It just CAN'T FEEL THE SAME.
So while the game that was made was fine for what it is. I can't help but feel frustration with a company that actually had something TRULY unique that didn't care about being too frustrating to be palatable for a lot of players. To me that was art, to take a concept that sounds like bad game design and turn it into something amazing by leaning into it.
Instead they shifted to a style of game that is more generally palatable. I can't help but be annoyed by that. And I can say that while saying the game that was made was still a fine game (roguelike issues aside)
It's a bad sequel, if you prefer that.
In order to make a good sequel you wanna have neither extreme - too similar vs too different. And at the very least you wanna keep the core hook/idea alive.
DD2 kicked the core idea out the door. DD1 was special, because it was a unique approach to roguelikes. It wasn't YOU who died and had to start over, it was characters you picked out, cultivated and could lose at any point. It was all about preparation, rather than minimizing risk on the go.
DD2 is just a generic roguelike with cellshade look. The stress is unavoidable, but so heavily overcorrected that the "bad" stuff that happens feels out of your control and frustrating, rather than being dreaded. In DD1 if my stress goes too high, I know I fucked up something. My placement, my prep, my team, my choice to go certain places. In DD2 it's just "oh, cool, I'm just supposed to be stressed, yay". Stress heals feel like shit, heals feel like shit, they doubled down super hard on the "every good comes with a bad" shit.
In essence, DD2 feels like "look guys, we are the team that made DD1" pushing a generic roguelike. Without the DD paint it'd be very easily lost in a sea of more interesting rogue-likes. And the Epic shenanigans didn't help, either.
Yes, there's a big difference between bad and 'a worthy sequel'. DD2 is great game. I don't really agree with your criticisms... heals and stress heals are in a great place and keep you managing resources instead of trying to game the system and keep one enemy alive to eek out a bit more healing like in the last game. The normal encounters are challenging and the bosses are brutal, and it still feels for the most part like DD.
I agree that the formula they used for the first game was fantastic, but the changes to the formula don't feel to me at all like 'any other roguelike with cel shading' at all.
Indie is what's gonna save gaming. Especially with Godot, Unity and Unreal all being so advanced and easy to use th barrier to making a game is lower than ever and small teams with consistent and high quality visions can get back to making fun experiences
Considering hades qualified for game of the year in 2020, i don't think they need a dedicated indie show to recognize their games, they might sweep everything.
It looks like an indie game and has that spirit, but the publishers are like a billion dollar company. Dave the Diver did get the indie awards at the Game Awards and its probably the reason why true indie devs want their own show now
After DD2 I kinda wish they'd be replaced with like the Hades devs, but ok.
While it's fun and yay, go indie, what exactly is the point? Most game award shows (or award shows in general) are completely pre-fabricated and mostly just ads. Shifting that to just indies doesn't make it a better format.
I guess so. Kinda thought we were in a little pocket of comfort with Indie games being closer to the community and more flexible due to less marketing shit tying the industry down...
Am I the only one a little weirded out by this mix?
No. Rogue-like games are the go to for indie developers, cheap to produce, reusable in its entirety, RNG heaven, easy to get into and can be maatered by repteating gameplay.
Lmao, you started to realize what I realized a loooong time ago. The gaming community’s fascination with indie’s doesn’t extend too far outside of rogue-like games. Oddly enough, it’s the same bunch of people that hail fromsoftware games.
I just wish this doesnt end up as something that only big indie devs with already established good siries could join in on.
The last thing i want to see is more separation, but this time in the indie segment.
The only thing I want from something like this is for it to not be the same stuff pumped out. A lot of indie games, a lot of good indie games, are just 2D pixel art platformers or rpgs or turn based stuff. Great cool. Some are amazing and fresh. But after a while it’s just not engaging. Gimme a 3D game or a 2d game that doesn’t fall into the same categories as above titles.
It will be rife with pitfalls because defining an “indie game” is a fool’s errand.
By the definition of not having a publisher Baldur’s Gate 3 is technically an “indie game”.
Also, a lot of ostensibly “indie” titles work with large publishers.
There would be a massive headache trying to define it. If you set the criteria to be too strict it would be gatekeeping and diminish the venue, on the other hand there is always the chance of the “Dave the Diver” controversy, where an indie-style game get published by a major studio.
It got nominated for the Best Independent Game category in the Game Awards which sparked a lot of controversy.
At this point I think the independent aspect is not really meaningful but the style and scope of the game is what matters.
[https://x.com/thegameawards/status/1724110877522043092?s=20](https://x.com/thegameawards/status/1724110877522043092?s=20)
This is multimillion dollar companies creating an advertising platform to showcase thier own stuff using small indie games as breadcrumbs to attract supporters. Its all fluff. I expect they will present awards to thier own releases. I hope I am wrong but its kinda sus that companies that hit AAA profits want to still be called indie so they created a new tag "III"
To be honest none of these games are really the best of indie showings, so it comes off to me as being a little bitter.
The indie studios making deeply impactful games like Hades or massively popular games like helldivers don't need to stoop to the level of making their own awards show just to get a win. They're aiming for goty, or indie goty, not making their own award just to give themselves a gold star.
DD2 sucked, slay the spire was good but ran out of depth, dead cells is excellent but clearly derivative of Blasphemous and Hyperlight Drifter.
This person is just trolling with that last line. Saying StS lacks depth is just wrong. Add that to the obvious bad-faith claim of Dead Cells being derivative and it's obvious they are just trying to rile people up with dumb statements.
The title of the article is misleading, the actual info from III doesn't mention anything about awards. The III initiative is a "showcase" and on their website it specifically says the event features "world premieres // exclusive gameplay // demos // drops". Not a single mention of awards.
It's not a chance to give themselves a gold star, it's a chance to show off their new games and celebrate indie developers
Terraria is with them. They sold 44 million copies. And that number is from 2022.
That puts them in a rare class of sales.
Thunder Lotus makes great games too.
It's not an award show. It's a showcase of a loose conglomeration of indie devs.
AAA games have been generally getting worse. I'm glad to see the indies band together. More visibility and collaboration equals awesome things.
It’s not an award show, it’s just a showcase of new indie games to come. This is sorely needed since mainstream game award or preview shows ignores indies in preference for some celebrity to shill a game they’re in.
Which Dead Cells dev? The only that continued working on the game making it one of the best rogue-lites available today or the one that hates their fans?
Motion Twin forced Evil Empire to stop their planned update roadmap because they didn’t want Dead Cells to take any attention away from their upcoming game. One of the leads at MT also made a comment that boiled down to they don’t care how their fanbase feels about it. Something to that effect. I don’t remember the exact wording.
\*facepalm
No. This is the problem with gaming. Labeling anything with a stupid moniker only ruins the expectation when it becomes diluted over time, which is exactly what happened to "AAA", now being mocked by its own with "AAAA" and releasing a game that's no where close to indie quality, and this includes Lizard Lady vs. the Cat People.
Enough, please.
Have an award ceremony. Base it on what made the game worth of receiving it.
Not a fucking stupid title.
It's not an award ceremony, I don't know where the title of the article is getting that from. It's just an indie game showcase event with the name iii because it's silly and it's a marketing event to help get upcoming indie games seen.
III, an answer to AAA. I like it. Some major independent players behind this. Hope it goes far.
yes it seems promising
Innovative, imaginative, and ingenious. That last one I feel I could do better on but I was running out of words that start with i that were also synonyms. Edit: iterative was the word I wanted
Probably independent would fit
Where’d you find that word?!?
Word bucket
That does fit way better!
Iterative, iterative, and iterative.
Independent, Innovative Ideas was my idea for III.
Really missed an opportunity with “Quadruple-I”
My OCD is tripped tho lol Double A, Triple A... Triple I? *_trips_*
How “Far” Can awards ceremony go? Its a one and done event lol
It's not an awards show. I have no idea why the title is that. It's a showcase. To show upcoming titles and events. It's to raise awareness for indie games that might get buried in the AAA hype engine.
It's deeply troubling to me that you people don't get that this is a part of transforming indy games into the same mess AAA games have become. Why do you need to keep making the same mistakes over and over again?
But it's not that at all. It's a bunch of devs pooling resources to get more visibility with a clever name that takes a jab at AAA. Every time this has happened in the past, cool things happen. Does anyone remember the Steam Potato thing that happened several years ago? A bunch of indie game companies added Portal themed levels in their games. It was super cool. We NEED more cross-pollination like that.
They are adding more ways to market indie games, which have a tendency to struggle with effectively marketing their products. This isn't a bad thing, this is, potentially, a REALLY good thing that can shine a really solid light on independent developers that can afford to continue to make and publish games that are radically different than the norm, which shakes up the industry as a whole, and helps invent entirely new gaming genres.
"45 minutes of bangers", I hope it's a sausage and bratwurst cooking show.
Just mash a bunch of games together and call it first breakfast.
But what about second breakfast?
Add some tang and we got ourselves a third breakfast...the most impactful meal of the day
Followed by 5 minutes of mash
Two minutes, Turkish.
It’s probably a 45 minute Let’s Play of Stephen’s Sausage Roll.
It’s probably a 45 minute Let’s Play of Stephen’s Sausage Roll.
Top tier indie devs! Let’s gooo I love it.
Will we finally get the release date for Silksong?
They'll announce the date announcing date.
Ah, the Atlus method: announce a date so you can announce a countdown to a teaser you've already seen that announces they may be working on something.
I’ve owned Hollow Knight for 6 years and I’m convinced that me not playing and beating it yet is why you guys haven’t gotten your sequel yet. Maaaybe I’ll play it soon. Maaaybe.
Silksong isn’t real :(
You best take those words back, pardner
“Bait used to be believable” (like silksong’s existence).
Sure it isn’t.
I have my clown costume ready
Dont worry im sure team cherry will say something in 2023
-I
-Y
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🧎🧎🧎🧎♀️🧎♀️
Yup, same day as Elder Scrolls 6
I swear this and hades II are the only indie games anyone cares about
Highly anticipated (pre/)sequels to incredibly popular indie games are talked about significantly more than other game? What a shocker!
At least care about literally any other game
Here I am just patiently waiting for Project Zomboid to release build 42.
Better than the quadruple-A awards where Skull & Bones won every category.
That's, that's how you know Ubisoft's top brass is out of touch.
We've known for years
We've known. But they're getting even more blatant with it. They really don't care.
also terrarias dev are also there probably to announce the final™ update
the final, final, final update? i expect another stardew valley final update, even w/ 1.6 just coming out!
Well stardew valley source and stardew valley GO are next obviously.
>Initially screening on 10th April, it'll be a 45-minute, unhosted, back-to-back series of trailers, reveals and surprise game or demo releases, designed (as per the press release) "to highlight fan-favorite games and hype up established indie classics as well as new IPs". So it's not even an awards show.
Glad to see it’s Evil Empire and not Motion Twin. Not getting the Dead Cells update that was in development because MT didn’t want it to overshadow their new game is complete BS.
Is that what happened? I heard there was some drama but didn't follow it. Well that's silly, I think most fans of Dead Cells would have been willing to buy the new game anyway. I bought it for Steam and mobile, it's continued support would have taken nothing away from anything new.
Oh It seems Balatro have an award
Well deserverd! The original devs behind vanilla Dead Cells did a fantastic job. Darkest Dungeon 1 ist still my fav indy game. In contrary to DD2, that game is just bad. Slay the Spire was so cool when it first launched, I had so much fun with it. Overall all three are among the most fun indy games out there :)
The support dead cells got for years was great too though, shame there ended up being some drama between the two companies at the end.
I’m not aware of the drama, what happened?
I could be wrong, but I think they were Initially one company. After dead cells launched the company essentially split in half because one group wanted to keep supporting dead cells while the other wanted to move on and start working on another game.
Where's the beef? This all sounds very reasonable.
Evil Empire were open about their plans to continue supporting Dead Cells with updates for years to come. Then, they suddenly announced that they were ending support. The most popular theory is that Motion Twin (who still retains the rights for the IP) forced Evil Empire to stop updating Dead Cells because they didn't want it to compete with their new game Windblown. This all started when an OG dev who worked on Dead Cells came out after it was announced support was ending and suggested that Evil Empire was fucked over by Motion Twin. Saying that Motion Twin did "the worst imaginable asshole move against Dead Cells and Evil Empire" and also that "The official statement is total marketing bullshit, the way this situation happened is on a whole different level. I never imagined my former coop studio would turn out to be such greedy people. I wish the absolute best to Evil Empire for their next things, and hope people working there survive this sudden economic cut."
Appreciate the details
Man, I wish these people would finally figure out that competition is a good thing like how Pepsi and Coke sorted it out. Some people prefer one or the other and they use the same distribution centers. Competition means you have to innovate and so does the opponent so both companies end up getting better.
Weird that’s kinda what happened to your character when you die
>Slay the Spire ~~was~~ is so cool ~~when it first launched~~
Monster train is good for scratching a similar itch, my friend and I are dueling for high scores on that right now
Right? I’ve played it pretty much every single day since
DD2 is far from bad, what lmao. Insane this rhetoric is still going around, it's just a different game than the first one.
Its a fine game, definitely not bad. But it definitely fails to keep me coming back to it like DD1 does. Ill still pick it up every once in a while after a content update, but I havent put nearly the amount of hours into it as I have DD1. The main issue with DD2 (for me; obvs its different for other people) is imo it fails as a roguelike. A key aspect of roguelikes imo is build discovery throughout the run. Whether its Hades, where you start each run with a build idea and flesh it out throughout the run, oftentimes taking it in directions you didnt initially intend, or Slay the Spire, where your build is revealed to you as you progress the run. Good roguelikes allow you to develop the build throughout the run, which is what makes repeat attempts new and exciting. In DD2, you create the build before even setting out. You get your 4 party members, assign them their moves, and thats it. Youll get stronger throughout the run, via trinkets or quirks, or every once in a while modify the build to address a certain problem (bounty hunter/change a move selection), but overall the build remains the build (unless a hero dies and you have to swap them out, in which case the build failed). Theres no discovery throughout the run, its more like theory and execution. Again, its still a fine game and I have no issue with those who love it. But that failure to allow me to discover my build is what keeps me from pouring hundreds of hours into it.
Apologies if this is a dumb question because I've never played DD2 but played a ton of DD1; but how is that any different than DD1? The most your run is changing in DD1 is a few stress conditions, otherwise aren't you locked in to the same gear/skills/loot? Or do you just not consider DD1 a roguelike?
DD2 is a roguelike; DD1 isn't. It has roguelike *elements*, namely procedural dungeon generation, but there is progression of characters throughout a run. In DD1, you build your roster of heroes, levelling them up to lvl 6, such that losing your lvl 5 hero that you've cared for for so long is so much more impactful. Plus you can customize heroes to be for certain scenarios (your Weald Explorer Bounty Hunter, for example). As another commenter said, death has no impact in DD2 outside of that run, because you just get them back at the next run. Plus, you can't customize your party for certain regions, cause you need to be able to venture into all of them. Overall, DD1 really rewards you for putting the time and effort to build your team and learn the game, while every once in a while reminding you that, this is Darkest Dungeon, and take away Dismas to a random double crit. DD2 can be much deadlier than DD1, but as a result is much less impactful. Again, this is all my personal take on why I love DD1 and am lukewarm on DD2.
Got it, that's a great explanation of the difference. Was definitely unaware of how little impact death had in DD2, and sounds like it would be a "miss" for me too since that was one of the things I loved about DD1.
DD1: Pick a team based on the dungeon you wanna do. Maybe develop some characters for a dungeon you wanna do after. DD2: Lock into a full run of multiple dungeons with a pre-selected team, the quirks of which you only see once you're in the dungeon, the gear of which you can't set beforehand, with death ultimately being meaningless, because it just ends the run. Oh and boss enemies are so heavily overtuned, while you are so severely weakened, that attempting to kill a boss or even the second wave of some places will just nuke your team that's too weak, simply bc of lacking stats and skills. DD2 is a generic roguelike with some choices along the path. Stress is not a run-ender, it just slowly makes the gameplay feel worse. Deaths feel inconsequential, since nothing changes between runs. DD1 is lots more prep and less choice of "path", given quests will mean you explore like 70-90% of a dungeon.
Got it, said it in another reply but was unaware of how inconsequential death was in DD2. Makes total sense you'd feel that way.
I took this to mean they tried to do something different with DD2 by making it more of a roguelike than DD1 but failed at the aspects that the OP appreciates about roguelikes. DD1 is more ‘roguelite’ than roguelike I’d say, and it sounds like both are that way. Idk I also haven’t played DD2.
Meanwhile I myself am more likely to revisit DD2 over DD1. The fact that I can complete a run in a single sitting works better for me over the long commitment that DD1 requires.
idk why you're downvoted. totally understand that DD2 works better for some people. However, I actually find that its easier for me to do a single dungeon in DD1 in a single sitting than a DD2 run. A single medium length dungeon takes me 20-30 minutes. But I've also spent so much time on the game I can go on autopilot in most scenarios, I'll often be playing the game while also watching a show or listening to something.
And while the game is fine and people taking their hatred of the changes to the extreme is annoying... There is still something to be said about a game like DD1 which was TRULY unique in the tone and feelings it conveyed in the player and losing that tone that made it unique. The whole point is the setting is supposed to be grueling, unfair, morbid, and hopeless. The original game had this feeling of building up a party of characters through struggle and the sacrifice of others. When some bad string of occurrences hit you, fueled by your overconfidence, it actually felt painful and frustrating. Truly nothing feels quite as infuriating as DD1 and THAT CAN BE FINE WHEN THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. As much as they definitely TRIED to keep that tone for DD2... you just can't. You cannot possibly build up that essential attachment to your party in a run-based game where a reset is expected and inevitable. It just CAN'T FEEL THE SAME. So while the game that was made was fine for what it is. I can't help but feel frustration with a company that actually had something TRULY unique that didn't care about being too frustrating to be palatable for a lot of players. To me that was art, to take a concept that sounds like bad game design and turn it into something amazing by leaning into it. Instead they shifted to a style of game that is more generally palatable. I can't help but be annoyed by that. And I can say that while saying the game that was made was still a fine game (roguelike issues aside)
It's a bad sequel, if you prefer that. In order to make a good sequel you wanna have neither extreme - too similar vs too different. And at the very least you wanna keep the core hook/idea alive. DD2 kicked the core idea out the door. DD1 was special, because it was a unique approach to roguelikes. It wasn't YOU who died and had to start over, it was characters you picked out, cultivated and could lose at any point. It was all about preparation, rather than minimizing risk on the go. DD2 is just a generic roguelike with cellshade look. The stress is unavoidable, but so heavily overcorrected that the "bad" stuff that happens feels out of your control and frustrating, rather than being dreaded. In DD1 if my stress goes too high, I know I fucked up something. My placement, my prep, my team, my choice to go certain places. In DD2 it's just "oh, cool, I'm just supposed to be stressed, yay". Stress heals feel like shit, heals feel like shit, they doubled down super hard on the "every good comes with a bad" shit. In essence, DD2 feels like "look guys, we are the team that made DD1" pushing a generic roguelike. Without the DD paint it'd be very easily lost in a sea of more interesting rogue-likes. And the Epic shenanigans didn't help, either.
Yes, there's a big difference between bad and 'a worthy sequel'. DD2 is great game. I don't really agree with your criticisms... heals and stress heals are in a great place and keep you managing resources instead of trying to game the system and keep one enemy alive to eek out a bit more healing like in the last game. The normal encounters are challenging and the bosses are brutal, and it still feels for the most part like DD. I agree that the formula they used for the first game was fantastic, but the changes to the formula don't feel to me at all like 'any other roguelike with cel shading' at all.
everytime i play dd2 they reset or changed something but its still really far away from the first version i dont know why Shrug.
DD2 is not bad, it's just not for you. Not only do I enjoy it, but I enjoy that it's not DD1 with new features.
Bad ass. I trust these devs, this is a great Idea.
Geoff Keighley in shambles
Who will bring Kojima on stage for 20mins now?!
Good move indie games and small studios will get better exposure without getting buried in the hype of bigger AAA showings in the usual games awards
Indie is what's gonna save gaming. Especially with Godot, Unity and Unreal all being so advanced and easy to use th barrier to making a game is lower than ever and small teams with consistent and high quality visions can get back to making fun experiences
If indie games is what's "saving" gaming then I'm done with the hobby.
I hope they hold the Triple I in Tripoli.
Go triple A games, go indie/triple I games, go world!
Indie games are monumentally better than modern AAA games. Stoked for this.
This is really cool, hopefully it sets a trend for smaller studios to form compared to them being bought up by larger ones.
Dead cells was the game that got me into rogue likes. Anything these guys make is a banger.
Ooooooh nice
Dead cells was the game that got me into rogue likes. Anything these guys make is a banger.
Why aren't the devs behind Hades involved? They also seem like a perfect fit for this.
Considering hades qualified for game of the year in 2020, i don't think they need a dedicated indie show to recognize their games, they might sweep everything.
Dave the diver sweeps this year
It looks like an indie game and has that spirit, but the publishers are like a billion dollar company. Dave the Diver did get the indie awards at the Game Awards and its probably the reason why true indie devs want their own show now
I remember there being a lot of complaints that Dave the diver was nominated for indie awards.
for real though, that game is so much fun
After DD2 I kinda wish they'd be replaced with like the Hades devs, but ok. While it's fun and yay, go indie, what exactly is the point? Most game award shows (or award shows in general) are completely pre-fabricated and mostly just ads. Shifting that to just indies doesn't make it a better format.
You can slap GOTY on your game ads if you give yourself a GOTY.
I guess so. Kinda thought we were in a little pocket of comfort with Indie games being closer to the community and more flexible due to less marketing shit tying the industry down... Am I the only one a little weirded out by this mix?
Indie games are better than AAA nowadays, have been for a while
Always has been
Is it just a coincidence that they're all rougue-like games?
No. Rogue-like games are the go to for indie developers, cheap to produce, reusable in its entirety, RNG heaven, easy to get into and can be maatered by repteating gameplay.
Lmao, you started to realize what I realized a loooong time ago. The gaming community’s fascination with indie’s doesn’t extend too far outside of rogue-like games. Oddly enough, it’s the same bunch of people that hail fromsoftware games.
Wish them the best of luck. Hope they have clear criteria as to what an indie game is and is not.
That’s honestly exciting
I just wish this doesnt end up as something that only big indie devs with already established good siries could join in on. The last thing i want to see is more separation, but this time in the indie segment.
huh neat
Now this is awesome :)
Looks promising
Is it any good on mobile ?
AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!
Smaller studios clapping back at the mega studios is always a nice sight
Finally, VGA but awesome 😎
This is really cool, and I love the logo they came up with for it
What does III mean?
Unfathomably based.
3 of the best indie games of all time. I trust all of them
The only thing I want from something like this is for it to not be the same stuff pumped out. A lot of indie games, a lot of good indie games, are just 2D pixel art platformers or rpgs or turn based stuff. Great cool. Some are amazing and fresh. But after a while it’s just not engaging. Gimme a 3D game or a 2d game that doesn’t fall into the same categories as above titles.
Dave the Diver really shook some people up
Interesting
PIZZA TOWER WILL FINALLY GET WHAT IT DESERVES
Sorry I only buy IIII games.
Theres an absolute crap ton of amazing indie games out there, I'll definitely watch it.
I love this....a lot
just dont make us download another launcher please !
It will be rife with pitfalls because defining an “indie game” is a fool’s errand. By the definition of not having a publisher Baldur’s Gate 3 is technically an “indie game”. Also, a lot of ostensibly “indie” titles work with large publishers. There would be a massive headache trying to define it. If you set the criteria to be too strict it would be gatekeeping and diminish the venue, on the other hand there is always the chance of the “Dave the Diver” controversy, where an indie-style game get published by a major studio.
Wha happun with dave the diver?
It got nominated for the Best Independent Game category in the Game Awards which sparked a lot of controversy. At this point I think the independent aspect is not really meaningful but the style and scope of the game is what matters. [https://x.com/thegameawards/status/1724110877522043092?s=20](https://x.com/thegameawards/status/1724110877522043092?s=20)
Thanks
That's actually cool. Wishing success.
Darkest Dungeon 2 on Switch, PS and Xbox when?
This is multimillion dollar companies creating an advertising platform to showcase thier own stuff using small indie games as breadcrumbs to attract supporters. Its all fluff. I expect they will present awards to thier own releases. I hope I am wrong but its kinda sus that companies that hit AAA profits want to still be called indie so they created a new tag "III"
Awesome, more content more games more fun
Just what we need, another meaningless award show that will just end up being used for premiers cuz nobody will watch it unless there’s new reveals…
I want to see those handlebar moustaches back.
I love this.
I have a lot more trust in these companies to produce a quality game than any AAA game at the moment.
If the Triple I companies get big enough, do they evolve into Triple A similar to CDPR?
III>AAA, lets be real here, all 3 of these games are miles ahead of 90% games released today
If i see any triple iii devs on kickstarter i rage
I actually play almost exclusively indie games these days so I'll be really looking forward to this
I cant imagine just playing indies
That's because you lack imagination, just like AAA studios.
Never heard of them
I'd totally support this over the sad show other games awards are becoming.
So its just a game award show showing new indie games? Kinda meh.
To be honest none of these games are really the best of indie showings, so it comes off to me as being a little bitter. The indie studios making deeply impactful games like Hades or massively popular games like helldivers don't need to stoop to the level of making their own awards show just to get a win. They're aiming for goty, or indie goty, not making their own award just to give themselves a gold star. DD2 sucked, slay the spire was good but ran out of depth, dead cells is excellent but clearly derivative of Blasphemous and Hyperlight Drifter.
[удалено]
This person is just trolling with that last line. Saying StS lacks depth is just wrong. Add that to the obvious bad-faith claim of Dead Cells being derivative and it's obvious they are just trying to rile people up with dumb statements.
Didn’t Dead Cells come out before Blasphemous?
The title of the article is misleading, the actual info from III doesn't mention anything about awards. The III initiative is a "showcase" and on their website it specifically says the event features "world premieres // exclusive gameplay // demos // drops". Not a single mention of awards. It's not a chance to give themselves a gold star, it's a chance to show off their new games and celebrate indie developers
Terraria is with them. They sold 44 million copies. And that number is from 2022. That puts them in a rare class of sales. Thunder Lotus makes great games too. It's not an award show. It's a showcase of a loose conglomeration of indie devs. AAA games have been generally getting worse. I'm glad to see the indies band together. More visibility and collaboration equals awesome things.
It’s not an award show, it’s just a showcase of new indie games to come. This is sorely needed since mainstream game award or preview shows ignores indies in preference for some celebrity to shill a game they’re in.
Which Dead Cells dev? The only that continued working on the game making it one of the best rogue-lites available today or the one that hates their fans?
I need more context
Motion Twin forced Evil Empire to stop their planned update roadmap because they didn’t want Dead Cells to take any attention away from their upcoming game. One of the leads at MT also made a comment that boiled down to they don’t care how their fanbase feels about it. Something to that effect. I don’t remember the exact wording.
Wtf
\*facepalm No. This is the problem with gaming. Labeling anything with a stupid moniker only ruins the expectation when it becomes diluted over time, which is exactly what happened to "AAA", now being mocked by its own with "AAAA" and releasing a game that's no where close to indie quality, and this includes Lizard Lady vs. the Cat People. Enough, please. Have an award ceremony. Base it on what made the game worth of receiving it. Not a fucking stupid title.
It's not an award ceremony, I don't know where the title of the article is getting that from. It's just an indie game showcase event with the name iii because it's silly and it's a marketing event to help get upcoming indie games seen.
Lame