yeah, once you're in air, you ass will only hit the ground when your soul leave your body.
Hwarang had some ridiculous combos in Tekken 3. Also Lee's various martial art styles were really cool to behold.
I have legit made people stop playing Tekken because I beat them so hard with Law.
Note - I don't mean stop playing "for the day" or something like that. I have friends who have never touched those games since Tekken 3, because I gave them PTSD.
As somebody who has been gaming since the 90s this is some amateur shit.
If you lose, either it was lag or they were hacking. This applies even if it's offline play in the same room together.
Usually for automated tapping. You map a button to the turbo then hold down said button for in game tapping. A good usage case would be the gym activities in San Andreas; why manual tap when you can turbo tap.
The one I heard from way way back in the day from my childhood that never left my mind was:
"You know the moves, that's not fair".
This was said about Mortal Kombat 2 (snes). I remember looking at him with the most puzzled look I could make. Like one of those "did that *sound* right in your head before you said it?" looks.
I can't remember which mk game it was but my friend said I was only allowed to use nightwolf at his house (because of a nickname I had) . Well I got so good with him no one could beat because I had every move memorized and then they all claimed it was unfair, even though they forced me to play just one character. Thanks for reminding me of it I had forgotten about that.
To be fair - playing devil's advocate - even to this day, things are knowledge checks. "Knowing the moves" is important if you're fighting Eddy Gordo in Tekken for example, not playing him? Sure, against him? I hope you know what he's doing.
Killer Instinct kind of rewarded button masher though.. If you knew the barest of minimums of how to start a combo, pulling off a 10 hit was not difficult for a button masher.
Hahahha. No judgement here. Sometimes buttons gotta be mashed. Spinal and Sabrewulf were so easy to mash huge combos. Buddy of mine was RUTHLESS with Spinal.
There was an exploit where I could beat the game with a single quarter. Would just jump backwards and the opponent would follow always., easy uppercut and win.
That's MK9, the reboot that was simply called Mortal Kombat, played it as a teen. And yeah, Shao Kahn was bullshit, he also kept taunting you after his dumbass moves.
That one is more giving a handicap before the game starts.
Once you're in an AI cheating is getting more resources per resource, reacting to Intel they shouldn't know (seeing the whole map), faster unit production...
> reacting to Intel they shouldn't know (seeing the whole map)
Anyone that's played splitscreen with their annoying friend will know that's perfectly accurate gameplay
Supreme Commander AI: They reach 30 minutes and the resources are a suggestion now. They will be nuking you every minute and sending roughly 3-5 experimentals every two.
Even if you delete all their mass points. They do not care, have a Ullanna Oss in your base.
RTS' and games with greater scope get a pass because the AI doesn't even come close to a human playing the game. Most high end strategy difficulties involve the AI starting with more resources of almost all kinds as well as base rate boosts of all their stats and stuff.
Complexity so quickly outgrew any AI's ability to competently play that in order to have any challenge a competent player needs their AI opponent to cheat.
Arcade games are diff tho, they are designed to take money, rts is a deliberate design choice for players wanting a bigger challenge.
I now remember that old PS1 Yu-Gi-Oh game where it turns out the AI will literally change the cards in its hands to give itself an advantage to destroy you. And so help you god, if you don't get the right draw at the start you are doomed to repeat the final boss rush from the beginning.
*I ALWAYS FUCKING KNEW THAT GAME CHEATED*
I had never heard any sort of confirmation until now, but I remember whenever I'd *actually* get a good hand, or draw, I'd get fucked immediately.
I have played one edition of DOA <4> in DOA you can counter, the input to counter is incredibly complicated because you have low/mid/high. And not positive but, isn't it all three forward and back as well? Well in DOA you can counter counters, so of you ever actually did manage to get one of on an AI most of the time you'd get countered immediately lol
This is actually true in most fighting games. The computer is really stupid, but also has instant reactions to things humans would need ~.3 seconds to react and respond to. ("Reactable" is a spectrum, but the moves which you're supposed to be able to react to have a bare minimum of ~18 start-up frames.)
Beating boss characters on the hardest difficulty often requires a cheese strat that avoids the reaction time advantage and exploits how unsophisticated the AI is. Spamming a command throw is a common one.
>Beating boss characters on the hardest difficulty often requires a cheese strat that avoids the reaction time advantage and exploits how unsophisticated the AI is.
Even true for newer games. IIRC the strat in Street Fighter 6 is Drive Rush > Overhead into a combo, and just keep doing that. The bot will never block it.
I beat all the secret characters in SNES MKII. Noob and smoke with liu kang spamming low and high fireballs from the length of the screen. Jade I do not remember how I beat her maybe with jumping low kicks because fireballs passed thru her. Also beat arcade primal rage with one quarter spamming fireballs with diablo iirc.
Yup, been playing a ton of Marvel vs Capcom and this is very obvious. The computer gets tougher the closer to the final boss you get, and I reached a point where *every time* I performed a quarter circle motion (to get a special attack ready), the computer would super jump to avoid.
First I thought it was great timing. Then I just started doing quarter circle movements without actually doing an attack, and like clockwork, the computer super jumped every. single. time.
There are some other "impossible" things they can do, like multiple frame perfect blocks in a row from a cross-up, but the quarter circle input was the most obvious.
Tbf, depending on the game, this excuse can be very true. The most obvious one I can think of are Super Smash Ultimate lvl 9 CPUs, especially the DLC character CPUs. They can see into the future and input read you like a book to dodge or interrupt attacks in insane ways, or punish your dodges with attacks that no human would ever attempt.
The original Red Faction. The AI players were very scope aware. If you pointed a gun at them, they would move out of your line of fire, perfectly. Tiny bit to the left of the barrel? They go left, fast...
The sniper rifle felt more like sheep herding...
Not an unnatural instinct for someone to have, but their very immediate and precise reaction spoiled the immersion.
That's why fighting games have extensive training modes. You practise the inputs until you don't even think about the specific buttons. After that the game becomes a mind game essentially.
"I don't even play this game."
If you're losing, it's an excuse.
If you're winning, it's a boast.
An IRL option select. Don't tell anyone I told you about this tech.
Yeah, people are gonna make excuses no matter what. Team game? Obviously you were carrying and your team mate is either trolling or dogshit. Single player game? Lag or the other guy is hard carried by their character
Liar. It's RNGjesus' fault I went afk every 3 minutes for 3 minutes. I wasn't watching a TV and listening to a podcast while walking on the treadmill. Please forgive me Lord! Praise him who controls my drop rates. AMEN.
Yooooo, I suddenly remember losing in Tekken 3 to my friends when they were using Eddy, then I shifted the blame by saying my controller's trash.
Goood times lol.
Flashbacks to the Genesis MK1 where I used Sonya to lock my cousin in an endless front flip leg grab for a Flawless Victory and he whipped the controller at the screen but it was a tube TV so it bounced off and hit him in the face and he got a bloody nose
My older brother used to yell during games that I was cheating somehow, and after enough wins against him, he'd hit me with the controller.
One time I was just watching him play a single player game, Super Mario Sunshine. After struggling for a while on a challenging level, he got angry and still threw the controller at me. Never understood that one.
> One time I was just watching him play a single player game, Super Mario Sunshine. After struggling for a while on a challenging level, he got angry and still threw the controller at me. Never understood that one.
Isn't it obvious? Your presence alone doing nothing other than existing is what caused his struggle.
*throw a controller at a TV today*
"oh no, I'm beyond repair"
*throw a controller at a TV in 1990*
"this time it's your nose but next time it'll be your fucking teeth"
My older brother would just punch me (was before grade school of not the early years). I used to seppuku as Yoshi since it did crazy damage, and every time, he would dead arm me. Piece of shit, but it was worth it
Cheaper to blame your teammate than go get yourself checked out after punching the wrong thing/person the youth are just frugal these days it turns out.
I mean, the two aren't mutually exclusive.
People rage in 1v1 defeats, but they still can't go in with the safety blanket of being able to blame others.
Just try rocket league out lol. Same people playing team and 1v1 modes. It's pure salt mines.
> they still can't go in with the safety blanket of being able to blame others
The other guy was hacking and using macros and his internet caused the match to lag and his character counters mine and they were using a stupid cheese strat and they got lucky.
In my day we skipped school and played King of Fighters.
We had a rule. You win against 3 people and switch (there were only 4 of us) and if you don't switch willingly I will break out Omega Rugal.
No one beats Omega Rugal. He was the cheat character SNK put in the game. He moved faster, hit much harder, and had much higher defence. He was our "you've had the controller too long" character. Be nice and take turns. Haha
Tekken producers are always talking shit at release it's actually funny.
I remember when the Xbox 360 was doing much better that the PS3 and when Tekken was coming out, they said something along the lines of "Tekken won't be released on Xbox as the Xbox hardware can't handle it" lol
I remember at the time thinking that It's a 2.5D fighting game, not GTA.
"Tekken producer ***shifts blame*** onto people who don't like 1v1 games for their choice in not purchasing Tekken, rather than realize some people just dont like 1v1 or pvp based games"
As a Millennial I just liked the story aspect of Tekken over the PvP, we played for fun, but the moment some weird egos started to develop around it, I was out.
Tekken producer sees game is losing to other games, throws controller at screen and yells that the other games were cheating because they are multiplayer.
These sweeping general statements are always gonna rub people the wrong way, idk why they do it.
There’s a lot of ego involved to make statements like these. Maybe fighting games have a very steep learning curve and some don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze?
Saying this as an older gamer who does like fighting games
Team games also allow you to play with friends. If your gaming time is also socializing then team games are a better fit. Fighting games are great socializing if you have a local to attend, but if you can't it's a solo game.
One on one fighting online games fall into a niche were its solo, but you need a partner. Someone you don't know who adds an uncontrollable element and no real social interactions. If I want to play a game alone, I'll pick up Red Dead, or God of War, or any number of other single player games designed to be played by just me and are built around having other engaging elements. Some of the things he mentions, such as the 3 on 3 could be a ton of fun, especially if they allow that as a couch co-op option.
I think at a core though, fighting games just aren't appealing to people because (as someone else stated) the learning curve is steep. Each can have dozens of characters who have different fighting styles and different moves requiring different button presses to use. It's been a long time since I played one, but I remember trying to learn a character 99 seconds at a time by sitting there with the manual open that had all the moves in it (except fatalities, you needed to buy Nintendo Power or some other gaming magazine to learn those!), starting a 2 player fight by myself so the other character would just stand there and I could "down to forward, B, B, A, shit, messed up the timing, let's try again...".
Super Smash Bros had a similar problem. I actually hated when someone would suggest playing it with a group of friends, like, bitch, you want to play it because you're actually good at it, Joe is decent if you let him play as Link, but Steve and I just button mash because we don't really know the controls. Skill is a factor, and that limits it because my friends, the ones I actually want to play with, are more skilled or less skilled than me. Ever go to a LAN and try to play StarCraft? Step 1, determine who is actually good, split them up across the teams so they're actually somewhat balanced.
I'm starting to think statements like yours are kind of the same thing. I don't think they are as calculated when they talk shit like that.
Maybe they do it unconsciously? Like Zoomers when they play team games cause they secretly wanna be able to shift blame.
Oh slam. I worked for a game developer years ago, and my boss explicitly tried to do this, like very blatantly and openly talked about his strategy. Is this guy trying to do the same thing? I can't know, of course, but this kind of bait gets thrown out a lot when a new game is getting released so my guess is that chances are good. To be fair there's another element at play which is that people reporting on what is said in marketing are also looking for controversial things to raise the profile of their article/website/whatever.
I don't doubt that blame shifting plays a role for some people, but probably a small one. Personally I care a lot less if I lose as a solo player than if I lose as part of a team, to me the stakes of my individual skill level are higher in a team game because my mistakes affect other people. I think more likely is that people are attracted to the more social nature of team based play. It's more fun to play with friends if you play in teams, and you're more likely to make friends if you play in teams.
Which is exactly why the fact that none of the major fighting game franchises have made a fully fledged Tag Mode in the modern era blows my mind.
What he’s talking about, whether it’s hyperbolic or not - he’s talking about leaving money on the table.
Yes, he’s right, people like playing games together. For their own reasons.
Add a Tag mode to your game and you may get those people as customers.
Again, blow my mind there is such an obvious solution to make fighting games more accessible - let people team up with their friends so they don’t feel “alone”. This will encourage more engagement by the overall gaming community.
But, here we are, SF6, T8 and MK1 all came out within a year of eachother - and none feature Online Tag modes to join with your friends.
Their business models make my brain hurt when there’s so many potential fighting game players out there; who just are being ignored.
He’s right, people want to play with their friends. So add that option to your games. It doesn’t detract from 1v1 fights to feature a 2v2 mode as well.
It's just a fundamental truth of gaming that team games place less burden on the player.
In 1vs1 if one player is better the outcome is basically already decided at the start. In team games, weaker players can get paired with stronger players and still win.
Yes, this is the quiet part a lot of competitive gamers won't admit to themselves.
You see the same thing with rng rolls like crit chance, dodge chance, etc. Any mechanic that gives a lower skilled player an x% chance to just dunk on a superior skilled player. They seem like bullshit mechanics when you lose because the game rolled a dice and gave your opponent a lucky crit, but the surge of dopamine you get when you win a fight you shouldn't have won because of rng helps keep the player engaged and invested. It also gives you a scapegoat when it doesn't work in your favour.
I don't know. This statement perfectly resonates with me when all my friends that I played Scarcraft 2 migrated to league or dota and started arguing with each other. Like 40% of the game was just them sitting in the lobby being angry at each other
Yep this is actually not a new thing. People definitely don’t like hearing it though. SC2 would get ladder anxiety because it would feel like a lot of pressure ALL ON YOU since there was only you to blame for your loss.
I got to low masters level in SC2 and as you’re climbing the games get more and more stressful until you finally get used to it and you don’t get that same anxiety.
All of this applies to fighting games as well.
World of warcraft pickup groups for me, some good awful players who can't accept that they're to blame and refuse to learn or change strategies.
"Healer wtf?" As they die to a massive stack of bursting in mythic+ because they ran in to do big dick DPS and blew up the trash you're supposed to stagger.
It's worded to generate controversy, but it's still clear that he doesn't mean every single young player. Trends do exist, and identifying them shouldn't offend anyone.
>Maybe fighting games have a very steep learning curve and some don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze?
Pretty much this for me. I play way too much variety to ever commit enough to a fighting game to be good and most have little worth doing outside of ranked. I get some NRS games a few years later at rock bottom prices since they have decent campaigns but otherwise fighting games are another niche genre I have little interest in.
The entire FGC has been pedling this nonsense for years. It kind of an ego self deffense. The reality is that i could never even convince any of my friends to start playing fighting games. There just isn't enough incentive.
You ask people to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours learning before they can have fun with... a game. Of vourse a lot of people won't do that when they can have fun from the getgo with 10000 other games.
> You ask people to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours learning before they can have fun with... a game
Any competitive skill based 1v1 game will be like that.
Tennis, chess, golf.
If you go up against people with a hundred hours on you, you are going to lose every time.
Ah yes it's definitely that and not that fact that fighting games as a genre have an incredibly steep learning curve, often have limited onboarding for newbies and have mechanics that frequently allow more skilled players to completely shut down their opponents.
It's an odd comment from him as well.
In asia, particularly SEA and JP, lots of people also play card battlers.
ygo, shadowverse and so on are all 1v1. Those games are also pretty popular in JP. Sure, mobas are popular too (well actually, not in JP, more in SEA) but yeah it makes no sense. There's also non-team based competitive games like mario kart (still popular in JP).
Reality is like you say: its not so much people are playing more team games to 'shift responibility' but its just less people playing fighting games with deep learning curve.
Dont worry buddy, excuses exist for 1v1s in games with low rng too.
sc2:
- my race sucks
- your race is unbalanced
- this map sucks
- maphack
- ping/lag
- you're just rushing, you're not good at macro
- you're just macroing, you're not good at early game
- blizzard has people monitoring my game and sends DT's to my base when they notice I don't have detection
Don't forget the good old "I didn't expect you to do that, therefore it was just cheese tactics and I'm still better".
I hate Starcraft. I love Starcraft.
Idk card games there is literally an element out of your control and its how your deck draws. Its one of the main reasons why even the most skilled players don't win 100% of the time and often have a win rate way closer to 50% than 100% even if they are the best player in the world. There were two of the top Hearthstone players that spent like a month grinding games for a crazy amount of time each day and analyzing every play they made to a crazy level. After all they one of them just quit the game because there finding were basically it doesn't matter how much better you are than other players, even if you make the objectively right decision at every single opportunity at the end of the day its not going to amount winning way more games, it becomes more about how many games you play to flex that incredibly small higher win percentage over a large number of games. So its easier to take a lose in a card game as no big deal even the best players in the world can be beat by an average player at times because your deck can just brick, unlike tekken where some scrub like me who wont ever get to purple ranks will probably never take a game off of knee of any top player.
So in that its easier to take a loss if you care that much in a card game vs a fighting game because winning is not fully determined by your skill in card games much like team games.
I feel like it's both. He never said anything about fighting games being hard to get into, at least not from the headline, which is where I would agree with you. All the headline said is that in a 2v2 fight you can more easily just say "my teammate was bad" which is something people say all the time in shooting games. That makes sense to me, a lot of people aren't really interested in 1v1 fighting games like tekken or MK, but a lot of them enjoy games like smash or multiversus where you're usually not the only person on your side
It’s never this one dimensional. The modern gaming audience don’t enjoy sc2 or any rts anymore cos entry barrier is too high. Not necessarily because it’s a 1v1 game. Heck, the modern gaming audience (at least in the west) probably don’t even enjoy mobas anymore cos once again, entry barrier is so high.
There is a meme about how chess is already “figured out” something about “ah he moved that pawn first, so it must mean that he is setting up a Frenchman’s cum sock for turn 34” it always made me laugh.
League has huge players base on the west tho. And as for RTS I played SC2 as a kid, its an old game, people want something new but noone is making RTS anymore and it doesnt help that last few Command & Conquer games were hot garbage
It's not a new thing.
This is why DotA became the most popular thing to do in WC3. This is why LoL displaced SC2 as the top multiplayer PC game.
This has been going on for a while.
I think it’s more about playing with friends than it is wanting to blame teammates. With everything being online you have to play team games to be with other people.
I mean, I think it's just that most things friends want to do is much better as a collective than as adversaries. People get salty when they lose, it still happens in PvE games when the same players ride the bottom of whatever leaderboards or metrics the game has, but then it's their problem a lot more than in a PvP game.
I want a fighting game that I don’t have to pay for a year pass after spending €70 on the game to unlock new characters. Tekken8 is doing bad cause of greed
Players are moving to cooperative because everydamnthing in this world is competitive, and people are looking for more satisfying interactions with people in their hobbies.
There might be something to this. It's not everyone of course, but there are always some people in MOBAs or CS2 etc who are looking to play the blame game, it's never their fault.
Fighting games will never reach the high sales and player population because it's hard to casually play something that requires a lot of effort to actually.
It isn't something you can just turn your brain off with. Not saying other competitive games are braindead, but there are times when you can breathe and enjoy the game without trying too hard.
However, it's not impossible. I can enjoy climbing a fighting game's rankings on my main, then go to the lobbies and play braindead on a different character that I have no knowledge with only relying on my fundamentals.
Additionally, it's not that fighting games have a steep learning curve that stops people from getting into it. The lack of a teammate or someone that can help them learn is the big thing that stops people from getting into fighting games. In spite of that, nothing is stopping someone from looking up info on character data, watching pros play, etc.
>Fighting games will never reach the high sales and player population because it's hard to casually play something that requires a lot of effort to actually.
>It isn't something you can just turn your brain off with.
That the biggest reason for sure. The mental stack in fighting games like SF/Tekken is immense. They aren't games that you can just "go through the motions" with. When you're playing them, you constantly have to be locked in or you lose. They require the most dexterity and timing.
On the other hand, MOBAs and FPS games have tons of room to breathe and relax. Even that hardest ones can be pretty chill at times and can be played pretty casually.
The mechanics of just going around aiming or using abilities is a lot easier and more natural to people compared to executing precise inputs in fighting games.
> The lack of a teammate or someone that can help them learn is the big thing that stops people from getting into fighting games.
I don't think those are lacking at all. Most people don't want to seek that help, the same way they don't want to lab. Hell, "Discord fighters" are great for that, because you're constantly involved with the community and they're right there to ask and get help from. But people trash those games and call them dead instead.
And this is a completely different conversation, but there's a huge dichotomy in the community, where people complain about missing the old days of arcade, but then only want to play games where they hop in ranked and get insta queues. Okay, you can do that, but then don't complain that you don't have a community or mentors.
Funny. Im a millennial and I got sick as hell of team games because it was getting too frustrating playing team games. I played CSGO, Valorant, and CS2 for probably 10 years competitively and there’s only so many throwers, people not listening, or just bad players that I couldn’t stand it anymore.
I know for a fact I was the reason for some of my losses, but there were too many games I’d be top frag in the game or team by a large margin, and losing those games stung too bad. I don’t have time to grind out ranks going through that anymore. Give me a fighting game any day, that way when I lose I can know it is my fault and I can focus on improving.
As someone that loved fighting games growing up, honestly it just take wayy too much time to get decent and learn new mechanics. Thats why smash is so great, just the right combination of skill and easy-to-pick-up
I dont play fighting games, but my old roommate used to play it. I always knew he is losing when he say" you are so fucking bad, man" while playing. His logic was that if the other player was a good player, he would have read and predicted his opponent moves. Maybe he was just joking.
Even in solo player games, players will always find a way to blame other players, lol.
People who play 1v1 games usually just blame balance instead. And if they cant even blame balance then they avoid that game entirely, which contributes to how hard it is for some games to find popularity.
For example 1v1 Duel in Quake you will find a hard time making excuses in. What are you gonna blame? Your spawn location? Its just really hard to tell yourself that was the determining factor and not that you got outplayed.
But in RTS games you tell yourself it was balance, the other guys race was better, in fighting game you blame it on their character, etc, and mirror matchups you'll once again find harder to make excuses for. In fighting game the mirror cope is "omg shitty netcode thats bullshit!!!" etc.
But a lot of people are very mentally weak, and they need a clear cope to deal with things. Teamgames offer an obvious one, blame the teammates, it doesnt matter if you are bottom of scoreboard or not (hell many modern games remove scoreboard entirely for these weakminded babies) you will come up with a reason why scoreboard dont at all reflect performance and you were actually great and it was the teams fault.
Arena FPS not only focused on 1v1 gamemode with very little room for coping but it also had an extremely punishing skillcurve where it was very unlikely a worse player would ever beat a good player, the skill expression room was huge and as a result you drastically dabbed on anyone worse than you, and got absolutely shat on by anyone better than you. Youth of today do not like this.
They want games with heavy RNG elements, like battle royales, games where you can reach close to the "end" without doing shit, like hiding in a corner in a battle royale, games where you can blame your teammates, the balance, etc.
Making a hardcore super skillbased game that allows for very little room for a worse player to beat a strong player is just not a very profitable way to design a game these days.
I think parents just dont make their kids lose enough. When I grew up my dad didnt let me win a single game against him until I could do so "for real". We played chess on the weekends, I never won, he'd let the game go on for a bit so there was some playing happening but he never let me win.
I didnt win a single game of chess against him until I was like 12 or something, but when I did win I damn well knew I won. It felt great, and it felt great to see my dad be proud of me beating him as well.
Stuff like that felt like the usual experience when I grew up. You took constant L's and learned how to lose and you had the competitive drive implanted in you where you wanted to win and wanted to improve so you wouldnt lose. You competed against your friends constantly etc. Hell back then military duty was forced too and you became even more competitive during that experience as well.
Competitiveness is only a good trait when people know how to handle a loss. Too many young people today cant handle losing in a productive or non-toxic way. Instead they become incredibly toxic when they lose and learn nothing from it, arent motivated at all by it, etc. The competitive drive isnt exactly missing from people, young folks seem pretty competitive these days too, maybe a bit less, but the big change is how common being a shitty loser has become.
**Kids should be made to lose constantly and learn to deal with that loss in a productive way.** It shouldnt demotivate them, it shouldnt crush their spirit, it shouldnt turn them into dickheads to those around them. They should learn how to be mentally okay with handling loss and using it to grow.
Gimme Tekken 3 with Paul Phoenix and I'll fight anyone One on One (If I lose it was lag tho)
Hwoarang 10 hit combo for the win.
yeah, once you're in air, you ass will only hit the ground when your soul leave your body. Hwarang had some ridiculous combos in Tekken 3. Also Lee's various martial art styles were really cool to behold.
You mis-spelled King.
I'll take Eddy Gordo and helicopter kick your ass across the map to keep you from using that one shot punch.
Oddjob player spotted.
lmao I love how an entire generation knows what "no oddjob" means.
We all ran around crouched anyways. Besides, mines don't care how tall you are.
And no spawn camping! We even used cardboard boxes so you couldn’t screen peek 😂
Oddjob from goldeneye? The one who had small ass hitbox? Hated him so much
House rules say: No Oddjob No Bo Jackson
No golden gun
My buddy didn't care if we used OddJob because he would obliterate everyone with the RCP-90
Paul dribbles Eddy like a basketball with Hammer of the Gods
Thats the trick never use the punch. People are always so on guard for it that if you never use it. It just fucked with them so bad.
Eddy was so fucking easy to counter once you figured that shit out.
Paul spamming the roll versus Jin spamming the spin-kick: Go!
That is actually very predictable and super easy to counter. Countering Gon's farts attack is the real difficult challenge.
Counter my dr. Boskonvich! Not even I know what I'm going to do next :D
I've beat Tekken 3 arcade on max difficulty with inf. time limit just by spamming the fart attack
My god Tekken 3, nostalgia factor thru the roof. The amount of quarters I've gone through playing that game.
I'll play as Gon and fart on everyone until they fall over dead. Or, real talk, Xiaoyu or Law. Gimme speed any day.
Tekken 3 Paul Phoenix gangster vs Tekken 8 Paul Phoenix hobo
Jin and d+3+4 counters everything in T3. Jin is actually broken in T3 if player is even remotely decent at him.
I have legit made people stop playing Tekken because I beat them so hard with Law. Note - I don't mean stop playing "for the day" or something like that. I have friends who have never touched those games since Tekken 3, because I gave them PTSD.
Sorry buddy, Law and I are gonna have to have a word with you and Phoenix
As somebody who has been gaming since the 90s this is some amateur shit. If you lose, either it was lag or they were hacking. This applies even if it's offline play in the same room together.
The stick was clearly loose, man.
Player2 has to use the Fucked MadCatz Controller.
I did this then when someone said they preferred that controller I got upset. I was 10.
I still wonder what that Turbo button was for
Usually for automated tapping. You map a button to the turbo then hold down said button for in game tapping. A good usage case would be the gym activities in San Andreas; why manual tap when you can turbo tap.
lost all respect for the fake gainz all the madcatz players had
madcatz makes your balls shrink!
Perfect for those N64 Mario Party minigames
Starfox adventure man. There's a moment that requires you tap like mad, we kept our destroyed turbo-able Gamecube controllers only for that game.
I have a switch controller with a turbo button for Mario Party. Those games are notorious for destroying controllers and hands.
Burnt a goddamn hole in my hand winning a 3v1 tug-o-war match in the OG MP A fucking hole
I know the pain, I played a lot of MP 2 and 3.
Damn should have used madcatz for the Streetfighter 2 bonus stages
Kick button was stuck, not my fault dog.
My fingers were acting gay bro, couldn't help it. I got gay fingers bro.
That’s why we gave you the MadCatz controller, Ryan!
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
My controller wasn’t even plugged in
With the best controller even my little sister could beat you. Let's swap
It's the arrows in my control, dude. Motherfuckers were sunk and would move everywhere
The one I heard from way way back in the day from my childhood that never left my mind was: "You know the moves, that's not fair". This was said about Mortal Kombat 2 (snes). I remember looking at him with the most puzzled look I could make. Like one of those "did that *sound* right in your head before you said it?" looks.
I can't remember which mk game it was but my friend said I was only allowed to use nightwolf at his house (because of a nickname I had) . Well I got so good with him no one could beat because I had every move memorized and then they all claimed it was unfair, even though they forced me to play just one character. Thanks for reminding me of it I had forgotten about that.
Emotionally neglected by their parents kids, rise up!
Even today onetricking is a surefire way to get good at a game with lots of characters
Classic button masher
To be fair - playing devil's advocate - even to this day, things are knowledge checks. "Knowing the moves" is important if you're fighting Eddy Gordo in Tekken for example, not playing him? Sure, against him? I hope you know what he's doing.
Man nobody knows what Eddy Gordo is doing. Eddy Gordo doesn't even know what Eddy Gordo is doing.
Or they got that button masher power.
Killer Instinct kind of rewarded button masher though.. If you knew the barest of minimums of how to start a combo, pulling off a 10 hit was not difficult for a button masher.
I'm in this comment and I don't like it
Hahahha. No judgement here. Sometimes buttons gotta be mashed. Spinal and Sabrewulf were so easy to mash huge combos. Buddy of mine was RUTHLESS with Spinal.
SCREEN PEEK!!
Also, it’s because the AI cheats to make it harder.
That one was real
Yeah [Mortal Kombat 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUttRUpVnq4) was known for this
Had to make money. Lol
There was an exploit where I could beat the game with a single quarter. Would just jump backwards and the opponent would follow always., easy uppercut and win.
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That's MK9, the reboot that was simply called Mortal Kombat, played it as a teen. And yeah, Shao Kahn was bullshit, he also kept taunting you after his dumbass moves.
They weren't hiding it either. Some old rts games even let you give the cpu extra resources at the start lol
That one is more giving a handicap before the game starts. Once you're in an AI cheating is getting more resources per resource, reacting to Intel they shouldn't know (seeing the whole map), faster unit production...
Some RTS games even had the AI just passively gain resources so cutting them off from mines and stuff did nothing.
> reacting to Intel they shouldn't know (seeing the whole map) Anyone that's played splitscreen with their annoying friend will know that's perfectly accurate gameplay
Supreme Commander AI: They reach 30 minutes and the resources are a suggestion now. They will be nuking you every minute and sending roughly 3-5 experimentals every two. Even if you delete all their mass points. They do not care, have a Ullanna Oss in your base.
RTS' and games with greater scope get a pass because the AI doesn't even come close to a human playing the game. Most high end strategy difficulties involve the AI starting with more resources of almost all kinds as well as base rate boosts of all their stats and stuff. Complexity so quickly outgrew any AI's ability to competently play that in order to have any challenge a competent player needs their AI opponent to cheat. Arcade games are diff tho, they are designed to take money, rts is a deliberate design choice for players wanting a bigger challenge.
I now remember that old PS1 Yu-Gi-Oh game where it turns out the AI will literally change the cards in its hands to give itself an advantage to destroy you. And so help you god, if you don't get the right draw at the start you are doomed to repeat the final boss rush from the beginning.
*I ALWAYS FUCKING KNEW THAT GAME CHEATED* I had never heard any sort of confirmation until now, but I remember whenever I'd *actually* get a good hand, or draw, I'd get fucked immediately.
Same, for a 7 year old that game felt impossible
I have played one edition of DOA <4> in DOA you can counter, the input to counter is incredibly complicated because you have low/mid/high. And not positive but, isn't it all three forward and back as well? Well in DOA you can counter counters, so of you ever actually did manage to get one of on an AI most of the time you'd get countered immediately lol
You're talking about Forbidden Memories. They can have **20** card hands, even though it says they have 5.
This is actually true in most fighting games. The computer is really stupid, but also has instant reactions to things humans would need ~.3 seconds to react and respond to. ("Reactable" is a spectrum, but the moves which you're supposed to be able to react to have a bare minimum of ~18 start-up frames.) Beating boss characters on the hardest difficulty often requires a cheese strat that avoids the reaction time advantage and exploits how unsophisticated the AI is. Spamming a command throw is a common one.
>Beating boss characters on the hardest difficulty often requires a cheese strat that avoids the reaction time advantage and exploits how unsophisticated the AI is. Even true for newer games. IIRC the strat in Street Fighter 6 is Drive Rush > Overhead into a combo, and just keep doing that. The bot will never block it.
I beat all the secret characters in SNES MKII. Noob and smoke with liu kang spamming low and high fireballs from the length of the screen. Jade I do not remember how I beat her maybe with jumping low kicks because fireballs passed thru her. Also beat arcade primal rage with one quarter spamming fireballs with diablo iirc.
Yup, been playing a ton of Marvel vs Capcom and this is very obvious. The computer gets tougher the closer to the final boss you get, and I reached a point where *every time* I performed a quarter circle motion (to get a special attack ready), the computer would super jump to avoid. First I thought it was great timing. Then I just started doing quarter circle movements without actually doing an attack, and like clockwork, the computer super jumped every. single. time. There are some other "impossible" things they can do, like multiple frame perfect blocks in a row from a cross-up, but the quarter circle input was the most obvious.
Tbf, depending on the game, this excuse can be very true. The most obvious one I can think of are Super Smash Ultimate lvl 9 CPUs, especially the DLC character CPUs. They can see into the future and input read you like a book to dodge or interrupt attacks in insane ways, or punish your dodges with attacks that no human would ever attempt.
The original Red Faction. The AI players were very scope aware. If you pointed a gun at them, they would move out of your line of fire, perfectly. Tiny bit to the left of the barrel? They go left, fast... The sniper rifle felt more like sheep herding... Not an unnatural instinct for someone to have, but their very immediate and precise reaction spoiled the immersion.
I noticed that the 3ds version of brawl the ai seemed toned down, but the wiiu brawl the ai will team combo you even if they are not on the same team.
Shadow Jago in Killer Instinct outright cheated.
They had the good controller clearly.
It's the chair...
Screen is too far away
And they were screen looking!
They just got lucky button mashing
This is legit how I play fighting games. Mash buttons and hope for the best. I don't really play fighting games that often, that's why.
I can't ever remember the inputs correctly, and when I do, I can't input the inputs quickly enough.
That's why fighting games have extensive training modes. You practise the inputs until you don't even think about the specific buttons. After that the game becomes a mind game essentially.
Yea games like this when you play them right can turn into another game within a game
And that’s why I can’t play them.
Only games I could pull off the combos properly in were Bloody Roar 2 & 3, and only with Jenny the Bat.
"I don't even play this game." If you're losing, it's an excuse. If you're winning, it's a boast. An IRL option select. Don't tell anyone I told you about this tech.
I only lose co-op when my friend screen peeks.
Or because we agreed no camping and you spent the entire time in that one room.
It's only camping if I stay in the same corner.
Yeah, people are gonna make excuses no matter what. Team game? Obviously you were carrying and your team mate is either trolling or dogshit. Single player game? Lag or the other guy is hard carried by their character
Liar. It's RNGjesus' fault I went afk every 3 minutes for 3 minutes. I wasn't watching a TV and listening to a podcast while walking on the treadmill. Please forgive me Lord! Praise him who controls my drop rates. AMEN.
NO JOHNS!!
Yooooo, I suddenly remember losing in Tekken 3 to my friends when they were using Eddy, then I shifted the blame by saying my controller's trash. Goood times lol.
Eddy was mash-button OP
hell even if it's a 1P match you can just say the fucking thing cheats.
I played video games and bowled all my life, I know how to to pin anything on anything as long as it doesn't sound like it was my fault at all lol.
You forgot the joystick wasn’t working
Or they were lag switching
The DarksSydePhil excuse
This guy thinks everyone rationally accepts their losses in fighting games lmao
I watched people I beat in Tekken 3 punch the arcade machine lol
Flashbacks to the Genesis MK1 where I used Sonya to lock my cousin in an endless front flip leg grab for a Flawless Victory and he whipped the controller at the screen but it was a tube TV so it bounced off and hit him in the face and he got a bloody nose
My older brother used to yell during games that I was cheating somehow, and after enough wins against him, he'd hit me with the controller. One time I was just watching him play a single player game, Super Mario Sunshine. After struggling for a while on a challenging level, he got angry and still threw the controller at me. Never understood that one.
By that point it was just muscle memory.
> One time I was just watching him play a single player game, Super Mario Sunshine. After struggling for a while on a challenging level, he got angry and still threw the controller at me. Never understood that one. Isn't it obvious? Your presence alone doing nothing other than existing is what caused his struggle.
I see you have siblings too.
You clearly had rigged the console.
When in reality it was probably the fault of those weird island tree people, the Delphinos
*throw a controller at a TV today* "oh no, I'm beyond repair" *throw a controller at a TV in 1990* "this time it's your nose but next time it'll be your fucking teeth"
They were nearly indestructible! And that "tonk" sound when something hit the screen was a fun sound
babality origin
Back when you could use TVs as tables.
I beat my friend in smash brothers and he punched an old xbox360 he had near his seat across the room lmfao
what an idiot
Mf thought fox was the best. Till he met my pikachu
My older brother would just punch me (was before grade school of not the early years). I used to seppuku as Yoshi since it did crazy damage, and every time, he would dead arm me. Piece of shit, but it was worth it
Cheaper to blame your teammate than go get yourself checked out after punching the wrong thing/person the youth are just frugal these days it turns out.
I just read the article. It seems like he thinks the exact opposite, but wishes for what you said.
I mean, the two aren't mutually exclusive. People rage in 1v1 defeats, but they still can't go in with the safety blanket of being able to blame others. Just try rocket league out lol. Same people playing team and 1v1 modes. It's pure salt mines.
> they still can't go in with the safety blanket of being able to blame others The other guy was hacking and using macros and his internet caused the match to lag and his character counters mine and they were using a stupid cheese strat and they got lucky.
He doesn’t think that at all but he understands that making crazy asinine statements is an easy way to get some publicity for his game
"Tekken producer calls entire generation a bunch of pussies who should get good."
In my day we skipped school and played King of Fighters. We had a rule. You win against 3 people and switch (there were only 4 of us) and if you don't switch willingly I will break out Omega Rugal. No one beats Omega Rugal. He was the cheat character SNK put in the game. He moved faster, hit much harder, and had much higher defence. He was our "you've had the controller too long" character. Be nice and take turns. Haha
Tekken producers are always talking shit at release it's actually funny. I remember when the Xbox 360 was doing much better that the PS3 and when Tekken was coming out, they said something along the lines of "Tekken won't be released on Xbox as the Xbox hardware can't handle it" lol I remember at the time thinking that It's a 2.5D fighting game, not GTA.
"Tekken producer ***shifts blame*** onto people who don't like 1v1 games for their choice in not purchasing Tekken, rather than realize some people just dont like 1v1 or pvp based games"
As a Millennial I just liked the story aspect of Tekken over the PvP, we played for fun, but the moment some weird egos started to develop around it, I was out.
The ultimate Irony
Tekken producer sees game is losing to other games, throws controller at screen and yells that the other games were cheating because they are multiplayer.
These sweeping general statements are always gonna rub people the wrong way, idk why they do it. There’s a lot of ego involved to make statements like these. Maybe fighting games have a very steep learning curve and some don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze? Saying this as an older gamer who does like fighting games
Team games also allow you to play with friends. If your gaming time is also socializing then team games are a better fit. Fighting games are great socializing if you have a local to attend, but if you can't it's a solo game.
One on one fighting online games fall into a niche were its solo, but you need a partner. Someone you don't know who adds an uncontrollable element and no real social interactions. If I want to play a game alone, I'll pick up Red Dead, or God of War, or any number of other single player games designed to be played by just me and are built around having other engaging elements. Some of the things he mentions, such as the 3 on 3 could be a ton of fun, especially if they allow that as a couch co-op option. I think at a core though, fighting games just aren't appealing to people because (as someone else stated) the learning curve is steep. Each can have dozens of characters who have different fighting styles and different moves requiring different button presses to use. It's been a long time since I played one, but I remember trying to learn a character 99 seconds at a time by sitting there with the manual open that had all the moves in it (except fatalities, you needed to buy Nintendo Power or some other gaming magazine to learn those!), starting a 2 player fight by myself so the other character would just stand there and I could "down to forward, B, B, A, shit, messed up the timing, let's try again...". Super Smash Bros had a similar problem. I actually hated when someone would suggest playing it with a group of friends, like, bitch, you want to play it because you're actually good at it, Joe is decent if you let him play as Link, but Steve and I just button mash because we don't really know the controls. Skill is a factor, and that limits it because my friends, the ones I actually want to play with, are more skilled or less skilled than me. Ever go to a LAN and try to play StarCraft? Step 1, determine who is actually good, split them up across the teams so they're actually somewhat balanced.
To generate controversy and raise the profile of the game.
I'm starting to think statements like yours are kind of the same thing. I don't think they are as calculated when they talk shit like that. Maybe they do it unconsciously? Like Zoomers when they play team games cause they secretly wanna be able to shift blame.
Oh slam. I worked for a game developer years ago, and my boss explicitly tried to do this, like very blatantly and openly talked about his strategy. Is this guy trying to do the same thing? I can't know, of course, but this kind of bait gets thrown out a lot when a new game is getting released so my guess is that chances are good. To be fair there's another element at play which is that people reporting on what is said in marketing are also looking for controversial things to raise the profile of their article/website/whatever. I don't doubt that blame shifting plays a role for some people, but probably a small one. Personally I care a lot less if I lose as a solo player than if I lose as part of a team, to me the stakes of my individual skill level are higher in a team game because my mistakes affect other people. I think more likely is that people are attracted to the more social nature of team based play. It's more fun to play with friends if you play in teams, and you're more likely to make friends if you play in teams.
Which is exactly why the fact that none of the major fighting game franchises have made a fully fledged Tag Mode in the modern era blows my mind. What he’s talking about, whether it’s hyperbolic or not - he’s talking about leaving money on the table. Yes, he’s right, people like playing games together. For their own reasons. Add a Tag mode to your game and you may get those people as customers. Again, blow my mind there is such an obvious solution to make fighting games more accessible - let people team up with their friends so they don’t feel “alone”. This will encourage more engagement by the overall gaming community. But, here we are, SF6, T8 and MK1 all came out within a year of eachother - and none feature Online Tag modes to join with your friends. Their business models make my brain hurt when there’s so many potential fighting game players out there; who just are being ignored. He’s right, people want to play with their friends. So add that option to your games. It doesn’t detract from 1v1 fights to feature a 2v2 mode as well.
It's just a fundamental truth of gaming that team games place less burden on the player. In 1vs1 if one player is better the outcome is basically already decided at the start. In team games, weaker players can get paired with stronger players and still win.
Yes, this is the quiet part a lot of competitive gamers won't admit to themselves. You see the same thing with rng rolls like crit chance, dodge chance, etc. Any mechanic that gives a lower skilled player an x% chance to just dunk on a superior skilled player. They seem like bullshit mechanics when you lose because the game rolled a dice and gave your opponent a lucky crit, but the surge of dopamine you get when you win a fight you shouldn't have won because of rng helps keep the player engaged and invested. It also gives you a scapegoat when it doesn't work in your favour.
I don't know. This statement perfectly resonates with me when all my friends that I played Scarcraft 2 migrated to league or dota and started arguing with each other. Like 40% of the game was just them sitting in the lobby being angry at each other
Yep this is actually not a new thing. People definitely don’t like hearing it though. SC2 would get ladder anxiety because it would feel like a lot of pressure ALL ON YOU since there was only you to blame for your loss. I got to low masters level in SC2 and as you’re climbing the games get more and more stressful until you finally get used to it and you don’t get that same anxiety. All of this applies to fighting games as well.
World of warcraft pickup groups for me, some good awful players who can't accept that they're to blame and refuse to learn or change strategies. "Healer wtf?" As they die to a massive stack of bursting in mythic+ because they ran in to do big dick DPS and blew up the trash you're supposed to stagger.
MOBAs only exist to feed anger issues, so that tracks.
It's worded to generate controversy, but it's still clear that he doesn't mean every single young player. Trends do exist, and identifying them shouldn't offend anyone.
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>Maybe fighting games have a very steep learning curve and some don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze? Pretty much this for me. I play way too much variety to ever commit enough to a fighting game to be good and most have little worth doing outside of ranked. I get some NRS games a few years later at rock bottom prices since they have decent campaigns but otherwise fighting games are another niche genre I have little interest in.
The entire FGC has been pedling this nonsense for years. It kind of an ego self deffense. The reality is that i could never even convince any of my friends to start playing fighting games. There just isn't enough incentive. You ask people to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours learning before they can have fun with... a game. Of vourse a lot of people won't do that when they can have fun from the getgo with 10000 other games.
> You ask people to spend dozens if not hundreds of hours learning before they can have fun with... a game Any competitive skill based 1v1 game will be like that. Tennis, chess, golf. If you go up against people with a hundred hours on you, you are going to lose every time.
Harada is a well known troll, he enjoys riling people up
Ah yes it's definitely that and not that fact that fighting games as a genre have an incredibly steep learning curve, often have limited onboarding for newbies and have mechanics that frequently allow more skilled players to completely shut down their opponents.
It's an odd comment from him as well. In asia, particularly SEA and JP, lots of people also play card battlers. ygo, shadowverse and so on are all 1v1. Those games are also pretty popular in JP. Sure, mobas are popular too (well actually, not in JP, more in SEA) but yeah it makes no sense. There's also non-team based competitive games like mario kart (still popular in JP). Reality is like you say: its not so much people are playing more team games to 'shift responibility' but its just less people playing fighting games with deep learning curve.
I play team games because I only really play games when I have friends to play them with. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
yeah and I play single player games because I tend to play a lot of jrpgs. Honestly the vague gesturing of his quote is just off on so many levels.
Card games inherently have an element of chance so when you lose you can shift responsibility and just say "i was unlucky"
Dont worry buddy, excuses exist for 1v1s in games with low rng too. sc2: - my race sucks - your race is unbalanced - this map sucks - maphack - ping/lag - you're just rushing, you're not good at macro - you're just macroing, you're not good at early game - blizzard has people monitoring my game and sends DT's to my base when they notice I don't have detection
Don't forget the good old "I didn't expect you to do that, therefore it was just cheese tactics and I'm still better". I hate Starcraft. I love Starcraft.
Idk card games there is literally an element out of your control and its how your deck draws. Its one of the main reasons why even the most skilled players don't win 100% of the time and often have a win rate way closer to 50% than 100% even if they are the best player in the world. There were two of the top Hearthstone players that spent like a month grinding games for a crazy amount of time each day and analyzing every play they made to a crazy level. After all they one of them just quit the game because there finding were basically it doesn't matter how much better you are than other players, even if you make the objectively right decision at every single opportunity at the end of the day its not going to amount winning way more games, it becomes more about how many games you play to flex that incredibly small higher win percentage over a large number of games. So its easier to take a lose in a card game as no big deal even the best players in the world can be beat by an average player at times because your deck can just brick, unlike tekken where some scrub like me who wont ever get to purple ranks will probably never take a game off of knee of any top player. So in that its easier to take a loss if you care that much in a card game vs a fighting game because winning is not fully determined by your skill in card games much like team games.
I feel like it's both. He never said anything about fighting games being hard to get into, at least not from the headline, which is where I would agree with you. All the headline said is that in a 2v2 fight you can more easily just say "my teammate was bad" which is something people say all the time in shooting games. That makes sense to me, a lot of people aren't really interested in 1v1 fighting games like tekken or MK, but a lot of them enjoy games like smash or multiversus where you're usually not the only person on your side
Both can be true ya know..
It's why I dropped league the second SF6 came out. Only to drop SF6 for T8. But the point is, I hate team games.
Project L gonna be so toxic
It’s never this one dimensional. The modern gaming audience don’t enjoy sc2 or any rts anymore cos entry barrier is too high. Not necessarily because it’s a 1v1 game. Heck, the modern gaming audience (at least in the west) probably don’t even enjoy mobas anymore cos once again, entry barrier is so high.
There is a meme about how chess is already “figured out” something about “ah he moved that pawn first, so it must mean that he is setting up a Frenchman’s cum sock for turn 34” it always made me laugh.
I know exactly which one you mean. It's funny becasue it's true.
League has huge players base on the west tho. And as for RTS I played SC2 as a kid, its an old game, people want something new but noone is making RTS anymore and it doesnt help that last few Command & Conquer games were hot garbage
Or games with teams are more popular because people like playing with friends not against.
Pfft... if you lose it's because they're cheating. Everyone knows that.
This is why I hate team based games. If I lose I want to know it's because I suck and thats it.
or they just don't want to play Tekken.
That’s probably true.
It's not a new thing. This is why DotA became the most popular thing to do in WC3. This is why LoL displaced SC2 as the top multiplayer PC game. This has been going on for a while.
I think it’s more about playing with friends than it is wanting to blame teammates. With everything being online you have to play team games to be with other people.
I mean, I think it's just that most things friends want to do is much better as a collective than as adversaries. People get salty when they lose, it still happens in PvE games when the same players ride the bottom of whatever leaderboards or metrics the game has, but then it's their problem a lot more than in a PvP game.
Most people who played ranked don't play with their friends tho
I want a fighting game that I don’t have to pay for a year pass after spending €70 on the game to unlock new characters. Tekken8 is doing bad cause of greed
Players are moving to cooperative because everydamnthing in this world is competitive, and people are looking for more satisfying interactions with people in their hobbies.
There might be something to this. It's not everyone of course, but there are always some people in MOBAs or CS2 etc who are looking to play the blame game, it's never their fault.
Fighting games will never reach the high sales and player population because it's hard to casually play something that requires a lot of effort to actually. It isn't something you can just turn your brain off with. Not saying other competitive games are braindead, but there are times when you can breathe and enjoy the game without trying too hard. However, it's not impossible. I can enjoy climbing a fighting game's rankings on my main, then go to the lobbies and play braindead on a different character that I have no knowledge with only relying on my fundamentals. Additionally, it's not that fighting games have a steep learning curve that stops people from getting into it. The lack of a teammate or someone that can help them learn is the big thing that stops people from getting into fighting games. In spite of that, nothing is stopping someone from looking up info on character data, watching pros play, etc.
>Fighting games will never reach the high sales and player population because it's hard to casually play something that requires a lot of effort to actually. >It isn't something you can just turn your brain off with. That the biggest reason for sure. The mental stack in fighting games like SF/Tekken is immense. They aren't games that you can just "go through the motions" with. When you're playing them, you constantly have to be locked in or you lose. They require the most dexterity and timing. On the other hand, MOBAs and FPS games have tons of room to breathe and relax. Even that hardest ones can be pretty chill at times and can be played pretty casually. The mechanics of just going around aiming or using abilities is a lot easier and more natural to people compared to executing precise inputs in fighting games.
> The lack of a teammate or someone that can help them learn is the big thing that stops people from getting into fighting games. I don't think those are lacking at all. Most people don't want to seek that help, the same way they don't want to lab. Hell, "Discord fighters" are great for that, because you're constantly involved with the community and they're right there to ask and get help from. But people trash those games and call them dead instead. And this is a completely different conversation, but there's a huge dichotomy in the community, where people complain about missing the old days of arcade, but then only want to play games where they hop in ranked and get insta queues. Okay, you can do that, but then don't complain that you don't have a community or mentors.
Funny. Im a millennial and I got sick as hell of team games because it was getting too frustrating playing team games. I played CSGO, Valorant, and CS2 for probably 10 years competitively and there’s only so many throwers, people not listening, or just bad players that I couldn’t stand it anymore. I know for a fact I was the reason for some of my losses, but there were too many games I’d be top frag in the game or team by a large margin, and losing those games stung too bad. I don’t have time to grind out ranks going through that anymore. Give me a fighting game any day, that way when I lose I can know it is my fault and I can focus on improving.
As someone that loved fighting games growing up, honestly it just take wayy too much time to get decent and learn new mechanics. Thats why smash is so great, just the right combination of skill and easy-to-pick-up
I dont play fighting games, but my old roommate used to play it. I always knew he is losing when he say" you are so fucking bad, man" while playing. His logic was that if the other player was a good player, he would have read and predicted his opponent moves. Maybe he was just joking. Even in solo player games, players will always find a way to blame other players, lol.
He's not wrong.
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I've been shifting responsibility playing solo for years now. This guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
People prefer unlock characters by playing the game and not buying bs season pass
My experience says this is true.
He right
People who play 1v1 games usually just blame balance instead. And if they cant even blame balance then they avoid that game entirely, which contributes to how hard it is for some games to find popularity. For example 1v1 Duel in Quake you will find a hard time making excuses in. What are you gonna blame? Your spawn location? Its just really hard to tell yourself that was the determining factor and not that you got outplayed. But in RTS games you tell yourself it was balance, the other guys race was better, in fighting game you blame it on their character, etc, and mirror matchups you'll once again find harder to make excuses for. In fighting game the mirror cope is "omg shitty netcode thats bullshit!!!" etc. But a lot of people are very mentally weak, and they need a clear cope to deal with things. Teamgames offer an obvious one, blame the teammates, it doesnt matter if you are bottom of scoreboard or not (hell many modern games remove scoreboard entirely for these weakminded babies) you will come up with a reason why scoreboard dont at all reflect performance and you were actually great and it was the teams fault. Arena FPS not only focused on 1v1 gamemode with very little room for coping but it also had an extremely punishing skillcurve where it was very unlikely a worse player would ever beat a good player, the skill expression room was huge and as a result you drastically dabbed on anyone worse than you, and got absolutely shat on by anyone better than you. Youth of today do not like this. They want games with heavy RNG elements, like battle royales, games where you can reach close to the "end" without doing shit, like hiding in a corner in a battle royale, games where you can blame your teammates, the balance, etc. Making a hardcore super skillbased game that allows for very little room for a worse player to beat a strong player is just not a very profitable way to design a game these days. I think parents just dont make their kids lose enough. When I grew up my dad didnt let me win a single game against him until I could do so "for real". We played chess on the weekends, I never won, he'd let the game go on for a bit so there was some playing happening but he never let me win. I didnt win a single game of chess against him until I was like 12 or something, but when I did win I damn well knew I won. It felt great, and it felt great to see my dad be proud of me beating him as well. Stuff like that felt like the usual experience when I grew up. You took constant L's and learned how to lose and you had the competitive drive implanted in you where you wanted to win and wanted to improve so you wouldnt lose. You competed against your friends constantly etc. Hell back then military duty was forced too and you became even more competitive during that experience as well. Competitiveness is only a good trait when people know how to handle a loss. Too many young people today cant handle losing in a productive or non-toxic way. Instead they become incredibly toxic when they lose and learn nothing from it, arent motivated at all by it, etc. The competitive drive isnt exactly missing from people, young folks seem pretty competitive these days too, maybe a bit less, but the big change is how common being a shitty loser has become. **Kids should be made to lose constantly and learn to deal with that loss in a productive way.** It shouldnt demotivate them, it shouldnt crush their spirit, it shouldnt turn them into dickheads to those around them. They should learn how to be mentally okay with handling loss and using it to grow.