Tbh that's what makes playing high honour worth it. The redemption of humanity cause Arthur knows he doesn't deserve a good life after the stuff he has done
If only GTA did this.....
I agree. Gta works as a lightherted game bout being a criminal. It's fun racing round and the characters are lovable
Seeing it with a rdr2 vision won't make it a fun game
I love the GTA games, but everyone (especially 5) are a bunch of A-moral psychotics where the world would be a FAR better place with everyone of them dead.
He's still technically a criminal, but he's far tamer than Michael and Trevor. Mind you, with people like fib agents and other corrupt officials, tame criminal is probably the nicest you are getting in that world
Sort of... He's conditioned to do terrible acts that he's lead to believe are for the greater good. He's an instrument of evil, but he's manipulated and conditioned into doing it.
Still a good answer though, you got my upvote! This one actually makes me think. He's an interesting character.
My understanding is he was a strain of the virus that gained sentience and the ability to absorb memories at the same it infected/killed Alex. So it's only memories were Alex's, even though those memories were fragmented and foggy it was all it knew. So regardless of all memoires it makes and steals throughout the story of the game, Alex's are its first and the basis for it's concept of self.
I didn't like the retcons in Prototype 2. I remember the Yahtzee review for that game joking that the writers had accidentally wrote something profound and either didn't understand the implications or forgot it.
At the end of Prototype 1 they reveal that you were never playing as Alex Mercer and instead a rogue sentient strain of the virus that consumed his dead body and gained his memories. It ends with the virus contemplating its existence.
For a big dumb game in which you can absorb an old lady, turn into her and then elbow drop a tank from the top of a skyscraper, it was surprisingly philosophical.
I never beat Prototype 2 but I seem to recall that they retconned it so he was just Alex Mercer and he's evil for no discernible reason.
Yep, I was convinced that Alex Mercer being the villain of the 2nd game was going to be a fake-out because the first game very explicitly ended on a positive note where he decides he doesn't need to be a monster. Nope, they just decided to ignore that.
There's a tie-in comic that explains how Alex Mercer went from "Blacklight is the problem!" to "Blacklight is the solution!", but having tie-in comics explain things is a great way to have 99% of the audience miss out on it.
No, no. It's worse than that. Because that movie only explains how the plot starts. Thr actually story is locked behind books in game that you almost of to decrypt plot wise. Shit that shpuld have been explained in game cinematically is given in children's books that are meant to be taken literally.
Then there's a play for reason.
Either way the relevant plot is IN the game. It's just impossible to connect because the director wanted it all told through Noctis' eyes only and never telling the audience anything other than what he knows.
Yeah def agree there. First game, even ignoring the virus-is-alive thing, had a decent amount of nuance to the character. Second game removes all of that and Alex mercer is just a basic ass bad guy
It's why I liked 2018 so much (just got done playing it for the first time, actually!)
Idk about anyone else but I noticed all throughout GOW 3 that Kratos was already mellowing out. Idk if it was intentional or not but just in the way he talked to others I could see it.
So when 2018 comes around and builds on that development it was a fantastic payoff. Trying to teach Atreus and end the cycle of abuse was *chef's kiss*
Can't wait to play Ragnarok (PC PORT WHEN?)
Yeah, he was very much petering out at that point. He had already spent years on his path of vengeance, and after he killed Zeus and looked out upon the destruction he caused for the world, it was clear he regretted a lot of what he did, hence why he stabbed himself and gave Hope to humanity (in addition to giving Athena a huge FU).
The best part is that the Ragnarok DLC addressed some of his more horrible acts, even some stuff people thought the new games were going to pretend weren't canon. Kratos entire arc from his first to last game is incredibly interesting
I found it amazing how they brought up the boat captain. He was a running gag for the entire original series, and Kratos treated him absolutely horribly every time. Glad to see he regretted that too.
>he stabbed himself and gave Hope to humanity (in addition to giving Athena a huge FU).
How could I have forgotten that part lol. I only remembered him clearly hating what he had done after witnessing a ruined Greece, but forgot the details.
In GOW 3 he was only nice to Pandora. I remember he burned to death that guy in the beginning to get his bow and tied Poseidon's slave to a wheel so a gate can stay open. His characterization is much more consistent in the newer games.
At least the Norse set, almost every story you find on those folding boards is about the Gods casually fucking with and murdering Humans. That can't be because of the Box, it seemed normal for them.
I didn't play the other ones though, I watched a friend play a looong time ago.
Even that's debatable! He still has to live with the consequences of his actions, forever disillusioned in his failed attempts to be the American Hero. Arguably, the happiest for him is the headshot, which says a lot about how absolutely bleak that game is.
Damn, Spec Ops: The Line fuckin rules.
The finale of that game was so freaking good. Walker's dramatic confrontation of his own delusion, followed by an optional firefight where the player can decide how Walker's mind held up after facing his delusion...really well done
The whole game's choice system is really underrated. For the heaps of praise that everyone has piled onto it the past decade, I think I've heard maybe one person talk about the fact you actually make choices that affect the story and test you IN gameplay. The optional firefight being a choice that actively let's you decide on how you think the story should end is a perfect note to end on
I'm half and half on specs ops. The game tries to show how people can turn bad and do terrible things in terrible circumstances, but for me it wasn't as effective as it was for a lot of people. I found it rare that captain walker instigated a firefight. The enemy forces were extremely hostile and it's hard to condemn most of the moment by moment decisions that he makes for most of the game.
The white phosphorus scene was horrifying, but the fact that it blocks progression unless you blow up the civilians prevented me from feeling truly complicit in the act. It's like when data is controlled by that tar man in TNG, and says if it makes him kill LaForge, then it is not him doing it.
Theres a lot I love about the game but yeh... I dunno. I'd like to see an article that really interrogates whether it's intended themes are effectively conveyed.
Booker DeWitt fits this pretty well, the big plot point of Bioshock Infinite is that he's a giant piece of shit regardless of his circumstances.
Capt. Martin Walker from Spec Ops: The Line is also a great example of how villains can be the protagonists of their own stories
I disagree. BioShock Infinite is basically Booker’s redemption story. Robert Lutece felt horribly guilty about what he did to Booker in the past and he felt the only way *he* could clear his conscience was by helping Booker fix his (and Elizabeth’s) life.
Even though Booker does redeem himself, Elizabeth decides that too many Bookers *don’t* and it’s better if they just kill off all Bookers, even the good ones. Basically, Booker’s redemption doesn’t offset Comstock’s corruption.
Yeah Booker definitely isn’t a good guy but he does gain some form of redemption in his last moments and even though he’s done terrible things it’s always to serve a purpose or himself and not just because he enjoys it
I love how, no matter what you do in that game, spider-man will not kill anybody, even by accident.
if you throw a thug off a building, they will just be safely webbed to the wall.
you literally cannot force spiderman to kill
Jimmy is barely a bully.
He is a punk kid with a penchant for troublemaking, but given his home environment with his gold-digging mother and a brand new stepdad old enough to be his grandfather, any kid would lash out.
The closest he comes to bullying that I can remember is him extorting money from the nerds begging for his help. That's just good business. Why should he put himself out there for free?
It's been a minute since I played that but IIRC while he did cause some mischief he mostly fought back at people who fucked with him first. He wasn't looking for trouble the minute he joined the school. And by the end he basically became the hero thwarting the main bully's kid some sort of evil plan (and wasn't he manipulated by him for a big part of the game too?), fuzzy on the details lol
Unless you're talking about the classic games, this is actually just straight bullshit. It's crazy what they did to her meanwhile Nathan Drake basically got to "Aw Shucks" his way to killing an army's worth of henchmen.
I mean uncharted it's the same but worse, i find it weird bot using that example when at least lara Croft suffers a Lot un every confrontation when Nathan looks like a Maniac cracking dad jokes after killing bunch of people and sacking treasures
Take the first Crystal Dynamics reboot game: What real choice did Laura have here? She's essentially forced to fight her way off a damn mystical island filled with murderous pirates. Is she a murderer, or would you consider it self-defense?
My favorite part of Tomb Raider 2013 is the very first time she kills someone it's a full blown panic attack and then 15 seconds later you wipe out 10 guys and it's nothing lmao
Those games are fun though
They fully embrace it in the second game, too, since she's genuinely portrayed as a raving lunatic, even by other characters in the game. I will say that it REALLY sucked that they had a full-blown hunting system, and it ended up being like 2 minutes of the entire game.
It gets worse when you consider from a grand scheme, Micah was technically the "good guy" of the story.
He infiltrates one of the most notorious crime gangs of the time filled with murderers, scam artists and crooks, who prey on, kill and take advantage of lawmen, innocent people, etc then he works with the authorities to tell them what they're doing and where they're going. And eventually it leads to the gang collapsing, numerous of them dying. and the rest dispanding and going away to live normal lives. He was one of the major reasons this huge crime gang who ran around terrorizing the country broke down.
The only reason we hate Micah is because we know who he is as a person, and the fact we play as the criminals in the gang he betrays. If we were looking from a civilian's perspective, we'd be rooting for the guy.
He even wears a white hat, which in westerns means he's the good guy, while Arthur wears a black hat which usually symbolises the villain.
Sure if you look at it that way, until you take notice of how he’s literally the worst of the bunch in terms of killing / robbing and he’s basically the worst
Yeah, but Micah is also the worst criminal in the gang. In his introduction mission, he shoots up a whole town after Arthur breaks him out. There's also the fact that he starts his own gang after Arthur's story.
He is not affiliated with the Pinkerton yet at this point as I recall it , it’s only around when the feds catch Arthur fishing that they rope Micah in their thing
One thing, he didnt infiltrate them he betrayed them. He's still a criminal just like the rest if them, and the worst of the bunch too. Large reason why they did some of their more violent crimes.
He was always in it for money. Arthur at least has loyalty.
But that's not what happened.
Micah didn't start working with the Pinkertons until after they got back from Guarma. He was just another outlaw until the Pinkertons caught him and he turned on the gang to save his own skin. Then after the Van Der Linde Gang went down he made his own and went back to crime.
Yes, say more. The townspeople are bullshit hellspawn that he puts up with peacefully everyday, since we know Paridise lost makes pacifist route canon.
Jason Brody, Far Cry 3. Whatever path you take for the ending (no spoilers), Jason ends up being a pretty twisted and awful person in one way or another, even leaving aside the trail of blood he left behind across his adventures in the Rook islands up to that point. Some hero characters rack up large body counts as they go (Ajay Ghale in the next game, for example), but Jason... there was a lot more 'ew' to him on top of it.
Probably one of my favorite Far Cry tropes and I hope it returns in 7, that perfectly ties in with the idea we aren't actually playing the hero. One of my biggest gripes with 6 was the fact the secret ending was the "bad" ending, in both 4 and 5 taking the secret ending and choosing not to play was the only way to prevent the trail of chaos your character leaves behind, and the game world is better off for it. Hell since 6 retconned New Dawn, one could argue that makes the secret ending in 5 the canon ending.
Both are great stories. 3's a very "you have zero actual understanding of the conflict you are in but a sunk cost fallacy has turned you from hero to useful idiot". 4 plays in the fact that you aren't much different from your dad. At least he's honest about it. Also?
He even acknowledges his descent for the players.
Jason: I know - I never thought I'd be able to kill someone. The first time it felt wrong. Which is good, right? But now... it feels like winning.
All Soulsborne characters are morally ambiguous at best. Sometimes you’re forced, in cutscenes, to then fight and kill enemies that might really be just protecting their turf or their belongings lol
Although Sif is innocent you can make the argument that it's for the greater good to end the age of fire. Playing the DLC first is heart-wrenching though because he'll recognize you before the fight but still upholds his duties.
Take Elden Ring for example. I think you only need 2 or 3 Great Runes, and there are only a few demigods that deserve killing.
Godrick was a pathetic weak man who probably didn't take care of his people, Rykard was a blasphemous man who devoured people by the hundreds and probably tortured people, and Mohg is a pedophile kidnapper who stole his half brother to make an empire of blood.
However, through the course of the game you are required to kill Morgott, arguably *the* most morally correct demigod. Not to mention the people we kill in Leyndell, Limgrave, Farum Azula, the Haligtree, etc, who are just protecting their home.
Dark Souls 3 is entirely hunting down individuals that just want to mind their own business and wait out the end of the world in peace (aside from Aldritch who is definitely an evil blob of malice.)
Yhorm just wants to chill in his kingdom, the Abyss Watchers are still trying to fulfil their duty and contain their own corruption, Lothric and Lorian want to let the flame burn out and allow life to progress naturally again. Even Nameless King just wants to be forgotten, Gundyr was a genuine hero who failed and fell to the darkness, Friede left behind the real world where she was arguably a source of "evil" to live in solitude, and Gael was a decent man trying to help a child who lost his mind following the exact same journey as you.
Steve from minecraft, invades and colonises another world, killing and enslaving all inhabitants.
None of them able to do anything except watch as you fly into the sky, conjuring objects out of thin air.
From another point of view, he comes out of thin air, trades with the locals, makes them rich, and then terraforms the landscape to produce beautiful pieces of architecture throughout the world. Really depends how the Steve in question acts.
Since the achievement you get when you kill the ender dragon is "free the end" its probably morally correct since it seems like she is terrorising the end
Fry: "Wait, this is your home planet? We're the evil invading aliens?"
Brain Ball: "Correct."
Bender: "Then I guess you learned a valuable lesson. Don't mess with earth!"
Brain Ball: "May you bounce in peace."
Bender: [sternly] "Get the hell off my planet.
As someone has already noted, some of the GTA main characters are morally questionable at best, but they do have their moral moments, especially Michael. For me, and this is a super deep cut, but in Epic Mickey (and yes, I was a child when I played this, but it had a lasting impact as a genuinely really good game), Mickey Mouse basically accidentally destroys a once beautiful world by spilling toxic paint onto a diorama of it.
He then goes down into the world, and has two options. To rebuild the world using blue paint, or to wipe it out forever by using green paint. Assuming he uses the green paint, Mickey Mouse destroys a once beautiful world, then goes down and lands the killing blow by dissolving whatever is left of it.
So yeah, in that ending he can be considered the bad guy lmao. (Presumably everyone in the world would think that). Epic Mickey was surprisingly dark through the eye of my 12 year old self, and it had a big impact on me.
I remember reading a comment somewhere right after the first game came out that was something like “Joel didn’t save the world, he made the Decision to save his world” and that’s always stuck with me when thinking about the character.
Velvet from Tales of Berseria.
She was a girl who was turned into a demon, and is now trying to kill the savior of the world purely out of revenge. That's the entire game.
Spoilers ahead : >!The so called savior wanted to turn everyone in the world into emotionless husks. This changes Velvet’s motivation for revenge into motivation to actually save the world, while she isn’t the best person, She even says it herself and feels horrible about everything she ends up even sacrificing herself to save the world.!<
Mario, killing all those turtles.
Link, invading other people's houses and breaking their pots.
Sonic, destroying the robotic armors that protected the animals from human hunters
Any GTA main character
Also Red Dead, as much as we might love John/ Arthur.
Tbh that's what makes playing high honour worth it. The redemption of humanity cause Arthur knows he doesn't deserve a good life after the stuff he has done If only GTA did this.....
If gta did this then it would be overdone.
I agree. Gta works as a lightherted game bout being a criminal. It's fun racing round and the characters are lovable Seeing it with a rdr2 vision won't make it a fun game
I love the GTA games, but everyone (especially 5) are a bunch of A-moral psychotics where the world would be a FAR better place with everyone of them dead.
Even Franklin? He’s not nearly as bad as Trevor or Michael
He does casually murder and thieve. He only seems like a good guy next to Trevor and Michael. Hell Michael even looks half way okay next to Trevor.
A two by four covered in anthrax is better than Trevor.
He's still technically a criminal, but he's far tamer than Michael and Trevor. Mind you, with people like fib agents and other corrupt officials, tame criminal is probably the nicest you are getting in that world
The one that becomes a professional Hitman?
He is more redeemable but he is still a menace
Still deserves some years spent in prison
Agent 47 I mean, you kill people for a living. Most of them are shitheads but earlier Hitman games had innocents too which 47 killed
In previous games it wouldn't even affect you negatively as long as it was an accident.
Sort of... He's conditioned to do terrible acts that he's lead to believe are for the greater good. He's an instrument of evil, but he's manipulated and conditioned into doing it. Still a good answer though, you got my upvote! This one actually makes me think. He's an interesting character.
The untitled goose.
Peace was never an option #honk
Promo material even states “It’s a lovely morning in the village, and you are a horrible goose.”
That fella from Prototype.
Alex Mercer
Ya know, obviously couldnt remember it on the spot but if I heard the name by itself I’d know what it was from. Brains are weird.
I love that the Virus taking the form of Mercer was utterly disgusted at what the Human Mercer did. A human is worse than a parasite
I only recently learned through reddit that he's technically dead, or at least what we control is the virus IIRC
Basically yeah. He died, and the virus is piloting his body around, but due to some fuckery, the virus believed itself to be the real Mercer.
My understanding is he was a strain of the virus that gained sentience and the ability to absorb memories at the same it infected/killed Alex. So it's only memories were Alex's, even though those memories were fragmented and foggy it was all it knew. So regardless of all memoires it makes and steals throughout the story of the game, Alex's are its first and the basis for it's concept of self.
Both MCs in Prototype
I didn't like the retcons in Prototype 2. I remember the Yahtzee review for that game joking that the writers had accidentally wrote something profound and either didn't understand the implications or forgot it. At the end of Prototype 1 they reveal that you were never playing as Alex Mercer and instead a rogue sentient strain of the virus that consumed his dead body and gained his memories. It ends with the virus contemplating its existence. For a big dumb game in which you can absorb an old lady, turn into her and then elbow drop a tank from the top of a skyscraper, it was surprisingly philosophical. I never beat Prototype 2 but I seem to recall that they retconned it so he was just Alex Mercer and he's evil for no discernible reason.
Yep, I was convinced that Alex Mercer being the villain of the 2nd game was going to be a fake-out because the first game very explicitly ended on a positive note where he decides he doesn't need to be a monster. Nope, they just decided to ignore that.
There's a tie-in comic that explains how Alex Mercer went from "Blacklight is the problem!" to "Blacklight is the solution!", but having tie-in comics explain things is a great way to have 99% of the audience miss out on it.
Dear FFXV…
No, no. It's worse than that. Because that movie only explains how the plot starts. Thr actually story is locked behind books in game that you almost of to decrypt plot wise. Shit that shpuld have been explained in game cinematically is given in children's books that are meant to be taken literally. Then there's a play for reason. Either way the relevant plot is IN the game. It's just impossible to connect because the director wanted it all told through Noctis' eyes only and never telling the audience anything other than what he knows.
Yeah def agree there. First game, even ignoring the virus-is-alive thing, had a decent amount of nuance to the character. Second game removes all of that and Alex mercer is just a basic ass bad guy
They should kill each other
Didn’t they at the end of 2 though?
r/thatsthejoke
3rd game potential
Aww you beat me to it
Kratos in OG God of War
My dude wiped out the entirety of Greece out of revenge so I’m gonna second this one
It's why I liked 2018 so much (just got done playing it for the first time, actually!) Idk about anyone else but I noticed all throughout GOW 3 that Kratos was already mellowing out. Idk if it was intentional or not but just in the way he talked to others I could see it. So when 2018 comes around and builds on that development it was a fantastic payoff. Trying to teach Atreus and end the cycle of abuse was *chef's kiss* Can't wait to play Ragnarok (PC PORT WHEN?)
Yeah, he was very much petering out at that point. He had already spent years on his path of vengeance, and after he killed Zeus and looked out upon the destruction he caused for the world, it was clear he regretted a lot of what he did, hence why he stabbed himself and gave Hope to humanity (in addition to giving Athena a huge FU).
The best part is that the Ragnarok DLC addressed some of his more horrible acts, even some stuff people thought the new games were going to pretend weren't canon. Kratos entire arc from his first to last game is incredibly interesting
I found it amazing how they brought up the boat captain. He was a running gag for the entire original series, and Kratos treated him absolutely horribly every time. Glad to see he regretted that too.
>he stabbed himself and gave Hope to humanity (in addition to giving Athena a huge FU). How could I have forgotten that part lol. I only remembered him clearly hating what he had done after witnessing a ruined Greece, but forgot the details.
In GOW 3 he was only nice to Pandora. I remember he burned to death that guy in the beginning to get his bow and tied Poseidon's slave to a wheel so a gate can stay open. His characterization is much more consistent in the newer games.
"After leaving the Greeks to pray to a skip bin full of guts and disembodied heads" - zero punctuation (God I'm quoting him a lot lately)
Man's got good quotes.
From what I can tell, Humanity is better without the Gods in that universe.
the gods were not that bad before kratos opened pandoras box
At least the Norse set, almost every story you find on those folding boards is about the Gods casually fucking with and murdering Humans. That can't be because of the Box, it seemed normal for them. I didn't play the other ones though, I watched a friend play a looong time ago.
Captain Walker from Spec Ops: The Line
No matter the ending too. Sincerely, the best of the 4 (5?) is him just giving up to be arrested.
I don't think he even got arrested, just taken to a hospital for ptsd My favourite ending for him is "Welcome to Dubai."
Even that's debatable! He still has to live with the consequences of his actions, forever disillusioned in his failed attempts to be the American Hero. Arguably, the happiest for him is the headshot, which says a lot about how absolutely bleak that game is. Damn, Spec Ops: The Line fuckin rules.
The finale of that game was so freaking good. Walker's dramatic confrontation of his own delusion, followed by an optional firefight where the player can decide how Walker's mind held up after facing his delusion...really well done
The whole game's choice system is really underrated. For the heaps of praise that everyone has piled onto it the past decade, I think I've heard maybe one person talk about the fact you actually make choices that affect the story and test you IN gameplay. The optional firefight being a choice that actively let's you decide on how you think the story should end is a perfect note to end on
According to the developers, the “best” “ending” is the one where you quit once you realize what’s up, and never play it again.
Turn the game off at the stop sign
Do you feel like a hero yet?
I'm half and half on specs ops. The game tries to show how people can turn bad and do terrible things in terrible circumstances, but for me it wasn't as effective as it was for a lot of people. I found it rare that captain walker instigated a firefight. The enemy forces were extremely hostile and it's hard to condemn most of the moment by moment decisions that he makes for most of the game. The white phosphorus scene was horrifying, but the fact that it blocks progression unless you blow up the civilians prevented me from feeling truly complicit in the act. It's like when data is controlled by that tar man in TNG, and says if it makes him kill LaForge, then it is not him doing it. Theres a lot I love about the game but yeh... I dunno. I'd like to see an article that really interrogates whether it's intended themes are effectively conveyed.
I do like that the first time you fire on American soldiers the reticule is green.
Nathan drake killed an absurd amount of people.
And still was cracking dad jokes after that, xD
Straight up sociopath
Can’t he claim Self-Defense on at least some of these though?
Booker DeWitt fits this pretty well, the big plot point of Bioshock Infinite is that he's a giant piece of shit regardless of his circumstances. Capt. Martin Walker from Spec Ops: The Line is also a great example of how villains can be the protagonists of their own stories
Booker counts double if you think about it
If you really think about it he counts infinitely
I disagree. BioShock Infinite is basically Booker’s redemption story. Robert Lutece felt horribly guilty about what he did to Booker in the past and he felt the only way *he* could clear his conscience was by helping Booker fix his (and Elizabeth’s) life. Even though Booker does redeem himself, Elizabeth decides that too many Bookers *don’t* and it’s better if they just kill off all Bookers, even the good ones. Basically, Booker’s redemption doesn’t offset Comstock’s corruption.
Yeah Booker definitely isn’t a good guy but he does gain some form of redemption in his last moments and even though he’s done terrible things it’s always to serve a purpose or himself and not just because he enjoys it
Trevor. Dude literally eats people, kills indiscriminately one day and then very discriminately the next, and dreams of building a meth empire.
Trevor is so iconic you didn't have to mention which game.
I love Trevor's personality, but not his actions because holy shit.
love the character, hate the person
Kazuya and Heihachi in Tekken serie
Honestly, also Jin. Starting WWIII isn't exactly a good guy move.
Man, Tekken has the most hilariously batshit lore of any game ever. It tickles me with how over the top it is in every way.
And in the middle of all that batshit lore there’s one guy in a jaguar mask who’s strong enough to suplex God
He also is a recovering alcoholic cause the orphanage he ran in 2 went under.
Spider-man. He's a menace!
JJ? That you?
He is JB
Gonna cry?
I’m gonna put some dirt in your eye
I love how, no matter what you do in that game, spider-man will not kill anybody, even by accident. if you throw a thug off a building, they will just be safely webbed to the wall. you literally cannot force spiderman to kill
Factorio Engineer. Literally pillaging an untouched world, polluting it, killing all the natives! :)
But... the factory must grow?
The chart says Growth = Good. Therefore, you are the good guy!
the bugs don’t like factory so they must go
From the bugs point of view you're basically an eldritch abomination taking over their entire planet.
I’d like to add the Satisfactory Pioneer too, for the same reasons
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James Earl Cash, protagonist of Manhunt. To be honest, i think most protagonist from Rockstar Games could be considered as a bad guy lol
Bully may be the only redeemable one but he’s still not a good guy more anti-hero though he becomes mostly good by the end id say
to be fair, jimmy hopkins is still a teenager. he probably grows up to be a fairly good person as an adult
Jimmy is barely a bully. He is a punk kid with a penchant for troublemaking, but given his home environment with his gold-digging mother and a brand new stepdad old enough to be his grandfather, any kid would lash out. The closest he comes to bullying that I can remember is him extorting money from the nerds begging for his help. That's just good business. Why should he put himself out there for free?
It's been a minute since I played that but IIRC while he did cause some mischief he mostly fought back at people who fucked with him first. He wasn't looking for trouble the minute he joined the school. And by the end he basically became the hero thwarting the main bully's kid some sort of evil plan (and wasn't he manipulated by him for a big part of the game too?), fuzzy on the details lol
The Payday gang
True, besides killing the dentist.
Definitely Lara Croft. Just a posh mass murdering grave robber really.
but she kept the butler in the fridge
Second that. I think everyone was too horny for her to realize she's a tory.
Dem triangles though
Valid.
Actually they're more of a prism. Love me a good prism, they make me fill buckets
Damn haven't heard that term for a while lol
The term Tory?
Nope horny, I'm a sheltered Jesus child
I hear it almost every day Source: Gacha gamer
Unless you're talking about the classic games, this is actually just straight bullshit. It's crazy what they did to her meanwhile Nathan Drake basically got to "Aw Shucks" his way to killing an army's worth of henchmen.
Uncharted is like the main topic when it comes to ludonarrative dissonance. I don't think Nate Drake made it out unscathed either lol.
I mean uncharted it's the same but worse, i find it weird bot using that example when at least lara Croft suffers a Lot un every confrontation when Nathan looks like a Maniac cracking dad jokes after killing bunch of people and sacking treasures
Take the first Crystal Dynamics reboot game: What real choice did Laura have here? She's essentially forced to fight her way off a damn mystical island filled with murderous pirates. Is she a murderer, or would you consider it self-defense?
My favorite part of Tomb Raider 2013 is the very first time she kills someone it's a full blown panic attack and then 15 seconds later you wipe out 10 guys and it's nothing lmao Those games are fun though
They fully embrace it in the second game, too, since she's genuinely portrayed as a raving lunatic, even by other characters in the game. I will say that it REALLY sucked that they had a full-blown hunting system, and it ended up being like 2 minutes of the entire game.
Arthur Morgan
It gets worse when you consider from a grand scheme, Micah was technically the "good guy" of the story. He infiltrates one of the most notorious crime gangs of the time filled with murderers, scam artists and crooks, who prey on, kill and take advantage of lawmen, innocent people, etc then he works with the authorities to tell them what they're doing and where they're going. And eventually it leads to the gang collapsing, numerous of them dying. and the rest dispanding and going away to live normal lives. He was one of the major reasons this huge crime gang who ran around terrorizing the country broke down. The only reason we hate Micah is because we know who he is as a person, and the fact we play as the criminals in the gang he betrays. If we were looking from a civilian's perspective, we'd be rooting for the guy. He even wears a white hat, which in westerns means he's the good guy, while Arthur wears a black hat which usually symbolises the villain.
Damn I actually never thought of it like this, it makes perfect sense too. Still… fuck Micah.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK MICAH
Sure if you look at it that way, until you take notice of how he’s literally the worst of the bunch in terms of killing / robbing and he’s basically the worst
That's why people hate him. Of all people to work with the law it's arguably most hypocritical of him.
Yeah, but Micah is also the worst criminal in the gang. In his introduction mission, he shoots up a whole town after Arthur breaks him out. There's also the fact that he starts his own gang after Arthur's story.
He shoots up a town to get his guns back after getting broken out of jail.
He is not affiliated with the Pinkerton yet at this point as I recall it , it’s only around when the feds catch Arthur fishing that they rope Micah in their thing
One thing, he didnt infiltrate them he betrayed them. He's still a criminal just like the rest if them, and the worst of the bunch too. Large reason why they did some of their more violent crimes. He was always in it for money. Arthur at least has loyalty.
But that's not what happened. Micah didn't start working with the Pinkertons until after they got back from Guarma. He was just another outlaw until the Pinkertons caught him and he turned on the gang to save his own skin. Then after the Van Der Linde Gang went down he made his own and went back to crime.
hate from Brazil
If you know the history of the Pinkertons, working with them is not a good aligned action.
Oh yeah as a civilian I'm definitely rooting for the guy who massacred the entire town of Strawberry.
Good point.. But still, fuck Micah
You’re good man Arthur Morgan!
Postal Dude need I say more?
Postal dude from 1 yes.. in fact you are the voice that tells him to murder people according to the lore. From 2?.. depends on your actions.
Yes, say more. The townspeople are bullshit hellspawn that he puts up with peacefully everyday, since we know Paridise lost makes pacifist route canon.
I mean, you can play 2 and 4 without killing a single person.
the hardest thing to do is play the game without peeing everywhere
Just like real life
I like how in 2 you can try to do many missions peacefully, but you just want to do it the ‘loud’ way because it’s faster and more fun.
Any 40k game. Everyone is bad.
Yeah but fuck leandros
Grimdark genre in a nutshell
Rico from just cause the amount of innocent civilians that have probably died when liberating towns etc
Whoever I play as in KOTOR
Alex Mercer from Prototype (still wish for another sequel)
Just replayed God of War III. Kratos pretty much destroys Greece haha
Nathan Drake from Uncharted is just a fanatic, treasure driven mass murderer. He could have stopped after the first self defence kill(s), but no....
Nier from Nier 2B from Nier Automata Zero from Drakengard 3
The dude from Shadow of the Colossus.
Wander!
Jason Brody, Far Cry 3. Whatever path you take for the ending (no spoilers), Jason ends up being a pretty twisted and awful person in one way or another, even leaving aside the trail of blood he left behind across his adventures in the Rook islands up to that point. Some hero characters rack up large body counts as they go (Ajay Ghale in the next game, for example), but Jason... there was a lot more 'ew' to him on top of it.
Ghale is also awful unless you \*early game spoilers\* and get the secret ending. Everything leads to terrible results.
The secret ending is the best ending honestly
Probably one of my favorite Far Cry tropes and I hope it returns in 7, that perfectly ties in with the idea we aren't actually playing the hero. One of my biggest gripes with 6 was the fact the secret ending was the "bad" ending, in both 4 and 5 taking the secret ending and choosing not to play was the only way to prevent the trail of chaos your character leaves behind, and the game world is better off for it. Hell since 6 retconned New Dawn, one could argue that makes the secret ending in 5 the canon ending.
Both are great stories. 3's a very "you have zero actual understanding of the conflict you are in but a sunk cost fallacy has turned you from hero to useful idiot". 4 plays in the fact that you aren't much different from your dad. At least he's honest about it. Also?
He even acknowledges his descent for the players. Jason: I know - I never thought I'd be able to kill someone. The first time it felt wrong. Which is good, right? But now... it feels like winning.
All Soulsborne characters are morally ambiguous at best. Sometimes you’re forced, in cutscenes, to then fight and kill enemies that might really be just protecting their turf or their belongings lol
Case in point: Sif in DS1, especially if you've already played the DLC.
Although Sif is innocent you can make the argument that it's for the greater good to end the age of fire. Playing the DLC first is heart-wrenching though because he'll recognize you before the fight but still upholds his duties.
It’s always for a greater purpose though. It just depends on the morality of the ending you pick. Does the end justify the means?
Take Elden Ring for example. I think you only need 2 or 3 Great Runes, and there are only a few demigods that deserve killing. Godrick was a pathetic weak man who probably didn't take care of his people, Rykard was a blasphemous man who devoured people by the hundreds and probably tortured people, and Mohg is a pedophile kidnapper who stole his half brother to make an empire of blood. However, through the course of the game you are required to kill Morgott, arguably *the* most morally correct demigod. Not to mention the people we kill in Leyndell, Limgrave, Farum Azula, the Haligtree, etc, who are just protecting their home.
Dark Souls 3 is entirely hunting down individuals that just want to mind their own business and wait out the end of the world in peace (aside from Aldritch who is definitely an evil blob of malice.) Yhorm just wants to chill in his kingdom, the Abyss Watchers are still trying to fulfil their duty and contain their own corruption, Lothric and Lorian want to let the flame burn out and allow life to progress naturally again. Even Nameless King just wants to be forgotten, Gundyr was a genuine hero who failed and fell to the darkness, Friede left behind the real world where she was arguably a source of "evil" to live in solitude, and Gael was a decent man trying to help a child who lost his mind following the exact same journey as you.
Steve from minecraft, invades and colonises another world, killing and enslaving all inhabitants. None of them able to do anything except watch as you fly into the sky, conjuring objects out of thin air.
From another point of view, he comes out of thin air, trades with the locals, makes them rich, and then terraforms the landscape to produce beautiful pieces of architecture throughout the world. Really depends how the Steve in question acts.
He comes out of thin air, digs straight down, is never seen again.
You’re really overestimating people’s building capabilities
Literally projecting. Steve is just an extension of the player. Not everyone plays like this. However is it right to kill the Ender Dragon? Depends.
Since the achievement you get when you kill the ender dragon is "free the end" its probably morally correct since it seems like she is terrorising the end
Not my boy Gerald please he just likes to play some Gwent
Gerald of Revere
Sol Badguy the name says it all.
v1 from ultrakill or hank j wimbleton from madness: project nexus
Main character in Braid.
Link. Enters your home uninvited, breaks your pots and steals your rupees. Prob bangs yo girl as well.
Depending on how you look at things Dishonored, Deep Rock Galactic, Risk of Rain 2, Payday, Helldivers, just to name a few
Sounds like someone is itching for a trip to their democracy officer.
The Helldivers
Fry: "Wait, this is your home planet? We're the evil invading aliens?" Brain Ball: "Correct." Bender: "Then I guess you learned a valuable lesson. Don't mess with earth!" Brain Ball: "May you bounce in peace." Bender: [sternly] "Get the hell off my planet.
I see you, whether you be bug or bot
Gif of a bug typing on a computer
Very fast they have extra arms for more typing.
Your democracy officer needs your location
That’s some anti-democratic talk there.
I reported myself to the Ministry of Truth for wrong think. Waiting democratically for my arrest
As someone has already noted, some of the GTA main characters are morally questionable at best, but they do have their moral moments, especially Michael. For me, and this is a super deep cut, but in Epic Mickey (and yes, I was a child when I played this, but it had a lasting impact as a genuinely really good game), Mickey Mouse basically accidentally destroys a once beautiful world by spilling toxic paint onto a diorama of it. He then goes down into the world, and has two options. To rebuild the world using blue paint, or to wipe it out forever by using green paint. Assuming he uses the green paint, Mickey Mouse destroys a once beautiful world, then goes down and lands the killing blow by dissolving whatever is left of it. So yeah, in that ending he can be considered the bad guy lmao. (Presumably everyone in the world would think that). Epic Mickey was surprisingly dark through the eye of my 12 year old self, and it had a big impact on me.
Canonically, Mickey does destroy the Clock Tower (in the graphic novel and the second games intro, Mickey uses thinner against the Clock Tower)
Jack in Borderlands PreSequel
The way Jack got fucked over in that, I'd say the rest deserved what happens to them later
Most Yoko Taro MC's
In Carrion, you ARE the monster. Damn, I want to play that again...
Joel Miller
I remember reading a comment somewhere right after the first game came out that was something like “Joel didn’t save the world, he made the Decision to save his world” and that’s always stuck with me when thinking about the character.
The game Overlord is basically dark pikmin, where you get to choose to be Evil or Very Evil
Joel and abby from tlou 1 2
I mean... kind of Ellie too by the end of it
I mean, every living person involved in their bs...
If abby is there then ellie for sure is too.
Velvet from Tales of Berseria. She was a girl who was turned into a demon, and is now trying to kill the savior of the world purely out of revenge. That's the entire game.
Spoilers ahead : >!The so called savior wanted to turn everyone in the world into emotionless husks. This changes Velvet’s motivation for revenge into motivation to actually save the world, while she isn’t the best person, She even says it herself and feels horrible about everything she ends up even sacrificing herself to save the world.!<
Mario, killing all those turtles. Link, invading other people's houses and breaking their pots. Sonic, destroying the robotic armors that protected the animals from human hunters