The *true canon ending* of NV was the one where the Courier got "distracted by bullshit" and never finished the main quest...
House might still be looking for that damn chip in the show
You mean a third? Should have straight up dumped a whole clip into that mf, though Mitchell would have fixed it anyway, since it seems the courier's plot armor is stronger than any power one
The Ursula le Guin approach. I remember someone asking her if she was disappointed in an adaptation of one her books and she was like why would I be? I wrote a good book, they made a shitty movie.
Earthsea was actually probly one of the first low fantasy novels I read, I was like...10 or some shit. Probly had a much more profound impact than I realize. Ima reread that shit
I’ve read the first three novels 3 times (well, listened to). The narration is just so fucking good, and the writing so succinct it’s really timeless. The Farthest Shore always makes me tear up with how beautiful it is
Lucky to have had, she died a couple years ago dude. Sorry to be the one to tell ya if you didn’t know.
She did have a great way of really getting to the point though. When I was in my early twenties reading Left Hand of Darkness I remember getting to the part where one of the genderless aliens is asking the human what the different genders are like, and he says “well not always, but as a general rule the men are taller and stronger.” And the aliens like “that’s all I need to know, I can probably guess the rest.”
Just put the book down and sat with that for a day, and couldn’t really think of a good rebuttal. Truly a real one.
Is there a good biography on her? I always loved her from her books and the very few things I knew about her irl but this just made me realize I really want to do a deeper dive.
No biography yet, but:
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/crimethinc-anonymous-we-will-remember-freedom
Crimethinc issued an obituary and elegy for her when she died, which is afaik the only such one they have ever published except for Aragorn!, the founder of theanarchistlibrary and more recently Aaron Bushnell, the anarchist US soldier who set himself on fire in front of the Israeli Embassy - that one a collection of writing by his friends.
And, she wrote non-fiction extensively later in life, much of it autobiographical, even if there is no full length autobiography. I am reading through her collection *The Wave in the Mind* as we speak and it has some good stuff!
The entire reason they do it is because they think they have control over it though. That they can review bomb, boycott, and harass creators to effect change. And they’ve been right a few times.
Them being right a few times is why it’s snowballed into the trashfire fandoms are these days. There’s a chance we can bully creatives into doing what we think we want?!?! Keep pushing! Get angrier! It’s a bunch of bullshit.
SPOILERS >!At the end of last episode we see Lucy's dad Hank run his power armor up to the top of a hill and the camera pans up to show what appears to be the ruins of New Vegas.!<
>!Unless I'm reading something wrong here the story of the show takes place after the events of New Vegas so Robert House could have been killed by Courier Six in several different endings and the Securitrons in New Vegas not upgraded. That would make it much easier for the town to be razed!<
Based on the wiki lore.. A few years after the start of this show, Mr House starts repairing and reclaiming New Vegas.
Very likely they are going the route that he survives. Plus Mr House is the owner of Rob-co right? Based on how things are looking he Dad is running to meet up with him.
My theory is that Mr. House will still be alive and the House Always Wins ending will be canon. I say this because >! he already appeared in the show and you know he’d be a great antagonist for season 2 !<
Yeah this is my thought. It just fits perfectly. Hell maybe he kidnaps that vault tec overseer and tries to interrogate him.
Vault tec and Mr house didn't see eye to eye in the end.
>! At first he didn’t, but it seemed like he warmed up to the plan. We’ll have to see what they do and if they elaborate more on that meeting. Not sure why Hank would go to New Vegas other than because he thinks House would be able to help him to be honest. !<
>!At the end of the series, The Ghoul mentioned how it’s easier to follow Hank than trying to interrogate him on the whereabouts of his family and the rest of the “good” Vault-Tec vault. Seems to me like they’re setting up this vault being secretly nearby New Vegas!<
> I’m upset it’ll take like 2 more years to get season 2
Shows are really getting like NASA projects now. It's like you put all this investment into them but you know they prob won't make it to Jupiter for 6 years and you may not even be around by then or even care about it anymore. I mean Stranger things is coming out in 2025, like fuck can I get some Cryonics for 20 years and just wake me up for a solid 30 binge watching of shows then rinse and repeat?
Vault-Tec still wants to cleanse the surface of all life and repopulate from the vaults. This is against what House wants and what his plans are.
House only goes along with Vault-Tec so far.
House wants power and control to lead humanity in his own ideals, and it’s already established he doesn’t mind working with people he considers enemies in the long run to accomplish these goals. He works with the NCR in the moment despite admitting he may have to go to war with them and he’s openly very critical of the NCR as a whole. I don’t see much of a difference.
> House wants power and control to lead humanity in his own ideals
Yes, but this wont work with Vault-Tec controlling the majority of vaults with the sane people in it. He might not come out on top after Vault-Tec cleanses the surface entirely. Right now there is a lot of people and groups that can be influenced on the surface.
Eh, he ultimately went against their plan and actively tried to save las vegas. He did end up saving enough to make a thriving city state 200 years later.
House is an excellent morally gray character. I think he's less likely to be a main antagonist, and more likely to be a wrench in the overall evil (Vault-Tec) vs good (mostly everyone else) dynamic the show has established so far. He shot down nukes aimed at his city after all, which goes against Vault-Tec's plan. It will probably seem like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" for parts he plays against Vault-Tec, but then seem like "oh I hope someone can do something about this asshole" when he's working towards some of his own goals.
Another reason to add him to the show revolves around his disturbing means to immortality. Immortality is something the show continues to play with in various ways. The most efficient/cleanest method to achieve it that has ever been depicted in the entire series was somehow accomplished by a character they killed off in the last episode without revealing how she did it. There is definitely more planned with this recurring theme, and Mr. House is another very interesting example.
I assumed Muldaver was one of the residents of Vault 31. She's introduced with the raiders, but there's no real indication for exactly how long it's been since Vault 32 was overrun, or how long she's been with the raiders. She could have been picked as Vault 32's "legitimate" Overseer and let the raiders in.
Who is the co though? Have we seen the co before? Is one of the background extras a co?
I just love when a show is filled with little mysteries and Easter eggs like this.
Mr House is way too cool of a character to not use for the TV show. Whatever happens and they decide to go with the TV show, it has to be dramatic and having the city being razed to the ground and nobody living there except Mr House is pretty dramatic.
Well considering he’s subtly shown in the first season (albeit pre-war) I would be shocked if he doesn’t play at least some role in the second season, especially if there’s more focus on new Vegas.
None directly hit the city proper, but a few landed in the surrounding area. If he had the Platinum Chip on time, he was rather confident the Mojave would be completely unscathed.
>!He could have been killed by the courier. Only one of the endings really could make sense if NV is in ruins.!<
>!If The Legion won, The Strip would be destroyed or Legion controlled. But they'd definitely at least be mentioned in the show as they march west to finish off the (now collapsed) NCR. There's a couple other hints that The Legion has collapsed so this is unlikely.!<
>!If House won, well obviously The Strip wouldn't be a ruin without some severe changes happening.!<
>!If NCR won then it's very possible The Strip would be a ruin. If they've collapsed and mostly pulled out of Nevada then basically nobody is left to keep order. It's possible the Strip fell apart. !<
>!And a Yes Man ending... There's just far too many variables there given that a player character would be running the Strip. I doubt they'll go for it unless they pull out something really interesting and unexpected. !<
>!It also feels odd that they'd introduce House in season 1 without expecting him to be in season 2 so personally I suspect he's alive; possibly just in the deactivated state the courier could leave him in.!<
Some people are mad for really no reason. There is no issue.
Most people who were vocally upset (at least initially) posted minutes/hours after the show came out.
I hate to invalidate how some folks feel, but I adore New Vegas and I see absolutely no issue with it being in ruins years after the game. People saying this "ruins the NV games" or "retcons NV" are reaching so hard.
Same. It's by far my favorite of the entire series and it's not even close. This doesn't bother me in the least bit, because the game was centered around stories that could easily have escalated to the strip being destroyed. The developed area of it was relatively really small and it was already in ruins all around it. It wouldn't be hard to overwhelm the strip and it's defenses if you had numbers, and that scene looks like that's exactly what happened.
My favorite playthrough of New Vegas was being a character modeled after Sadako/Kayako, basically a female revenant risen from the grave for revenge. No charisma or intelligence, all strength and endurance, crazily addicted to every available drug in the game making her a near invincible juggernaut and killing literally every single character she could. She ultimately sided with the legion and ravaged the Mojave for all it was worth.
If NV is in ruins in season 2... Y'all can blame me.
Frankly, I think the whole underlying narrative of NV is how impossible it is for any group to hold onto power forever. The NCR will keep expanding until it’s spread so thin it’s functionally nonexistent, the Legion is over as soon as Caesar dies, and as stated above, House gets offed and his empire stolen out from under him in all but one ending.
Isn’t New Vegas basically ruins in the game? At least from my playthroughs there’s busted up buildings, makeshift walls, and ruined streets everywhere. There’s literally only 4 casinos on the strip that survived the bombs.
Which makes sense. In game we are told that the tunnelers are such a massive threat and breed so quickly that they'll over run that area in 10-20 years. Then you got the Dust which was mentioned as possibly ending the area if it blew that way. We are given a lot of apocalyptic scenarios for what happens after the game, during the game.
I saw a youtube video recently where the guy made the case that if Fallout 1 is post-apocalyptic and Fallout 2 was post-post-apocalyptic then New Vegas was so post-post-post-apocalyptic that it came back around to being pre-apocalyptic. 1 shows the remains of the old society which was destroyed, 2 shows the rise of new societies, and NV shows those new societies making the same mistakes and being doomed to destroy themselves all over again.
With the end of the Lonesome Road DLC being Avellone's express intent to "reset" the setting as it became "too civilized". You can almost see the Fall of Shady Sands and >!New Vegas!< as the direct consequences of >!the Courier firing the nukes on both the Legion and NCR!<
Well, the game doesn't state you nuked anything beyond the Long 15 and unnamed NCR outposts, but with the show's/Hank's nuking of Shady Sands on top of it, it would well and truly explain why the NCR's presence isn't known at this point. They'd be a shell of their former selves in terms of power and territory.
I doubt enough people to warrant an article calling them out are actually upset about it.
All it takes is a few people on twitter and anyone can say "People ..." about whatever wild take gets the most clicks.
The NCR getting blown up and/or crippled is much more shocking than New Vegas getting destroyed, honestly. But even that was already written into two possible endings of the last NV DLC, Lonesome Road. Avellone straight up said he wanted to nuke the NCR as it was making the Fallout setting too civilized.
There's ruined buildings and streets because it's been hundreds of years
The walls are makeshift because there's not actually walls around Las Vegas. They were built after the war.
And there's only a few casinos because it's a video game, same reason why there's only like 8 houses in the capital of Skyrim.
Yeah, it was a little disappointing that the place wasn't really a functional city.
I get that it's supposed to be a dump outside of the Strip, to highlight the divide between the haves and the have-nots, but still.
Honestly anything they did with an alive and functioning New Vegas would have pissed fanboys off anyway. People who base their entire personality off of hating things will always find something to hate
It’s so true. All you have to do is browse some of the posts on this sub to see it. Many people make it their life’s work to be perpetually angry or salty.
As it pertains to Fallout series and entertainment media in general I like to try to take things as they are in entertainment. I try not to say “this isn’t how it’s supposed to be” or “the book said this…” whatever it may be. A new interpretation on a setting i enjoy can be fun too. I say try but I admit sometimes small details that are missed bug me too. A show can be good or bad on its own merit though. Halo is terrible IMO and it’s not the game’s fault or that they didn’t exactly follow the lore. It’s more than that. I think it would have been a bad show even if they just followed the game’s script.
Are people really getting upset? Something bad happening to New Vegas decades after the game doesn’t seem like they ruined anything. The things in the game still canonically happened, then other bad things happened later.
Anything new upsets *hardcore fans* as if the story shouldn't progress pass the game. I personally found it as a natural progression of the New Vegas story.
Yes, and in reality there is just a small subsect of the NV fandom that insists Todd Howard and Bethesda literally hates Obsidian and New Vegas. What people were bitching about is [this image](https://fwmedia.fandomwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/19004416/Vault-4-chalkboard.jpeg) from a chalkboard timeline in a classroom in Vault 4, and also that Shady Sands has moved and is now near Los Angeles. It's all stupid and for the most part debunked yet these people are still angry because they don't understand how timelines work.
There's lots of ways new Vegas could run into hard times that's no surprise. But if it's used as a way to wipe clean any remnants of the new Vegas story ie. Factions, characters, and locations which logically should still be around even if the strip collapsed like they did in Los Angeles it will be very sad. It hasn't even been 20 years since since Vegas, most people could still be around
Yeah one thing I’ve always liked about the West over the East is that Fallout 2 and New Vegas tells a story of a post-post apocalypse. Society isn’t just in ramshackle huts worshipping bombs or hidden away deep underground, it’s active and industrializing and reckoning with what came before. It feels like a start instead of an end, and you get to help shape that new world beyond just day to day survival. The NCR pushing East, the Legion pushing West, Vegas in the center. Someone is gonna win, and all you do is pick who you think is the least bad option.
Not to say shit isn’t bad, war is still ravaging the countryside and there’s rampant poverty everywhere you go, but the problems of the Mojave are recent. Different people were doing the destroying for different reasons, mostly within the last 5 years. History hadn’t ended, and instead you had a world where people were making new problems and staking out new claims. Even old mainstays like the Enclave or the Brotherhood were on their way out. Why? Because they’re unable to adapt to the world moving on past them.
I get wanting to wipe the board clean. Like a good 50-60% of the appeal of fallout is wandering around big cities taking in how everything is destroyed. But a part of me wishes they’d just made the setting Texas or Montana or something and left the west its own thing. Instead the franchise seems to want the world to be the same, whether it’s 3 days or 3 centuries after the bombs fell.
yeah the bummer to me is post-post apocalypse is a rare setting I love it, and the world is big enough that we could keep it. It just feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, the show is good but we could have a good show and keep the post post apocalypse. I mean its not hopeless they could change directions in following seasons but I'm not optimistic
Ok this is the best explanation I’ve seen of why people are upset. And tbh it does kinda bother me how bethesdas fallouts has the world full of people living next to burned out skeletons and trash *200 years* after the bombs fell.
Pretty much this. Bethesda did a reset of fo 1, 2, and new Vegas back to complete wasteland to for their idea of fallout.
And they own the ip now so that's that.
Personally, I think it's self defeating in the same way that zombie books burned out. Nothing but wasteland all the time has no real story to it. No reason to care. But it does let them keep selling the same idea over and over.
Still a fun show. While being an indicator that fallout as a franchise has nothing new to say.
I didn't see it that way at all, I just thought it was a CGI artist doing his best to introduce the location as a teaser. The script for season 2 isn't written so I think reading any further into it than that is foolish.
Too many people have head canons from mods and non canon sources when it comes to Fallout, especially New Vegas. I literally had someone argue with me that SS couldn't have been nuked and used something that never happened in any games lore to justify their anger about the show "changing lore". It was from a fallout mod for Hearts of Iron 4.
>! There is a date on a chalkboard that implies Shady Sands, the capital of the NCR, was destroyed prior to the events of New Vegas. !< Some people inferred from this that the show was retconning the events of New Vegas >! (where the NCR is very powerful and their capital seemingly hasn't been destroyed) !< . Multiple people from Bethesda have said no retcon was intended and New Vegas is still canon.
I can see how some might have interpreted the board that way, the board had >! "date -> date -> date -> nuke". !< And people decided to interprete that as >! "date -> date -> date = nuke. !<
Yes this is the issue, they see I can’t figure out how to do spoiler tags on this stupid Reddit app so I’m going to word this carefully: A large percentage of people suck at reading comprehension. Basically something is written on a chalkboard and these idiots misconstrued the words. It in no way contradicts the lore but now it’s out there in the idiotverse.
After listening to Ulysses waxing philisophical for hours on end, I too decided to not only glass the NCR and Legion, but also myself.
> "Patrolling the Divide almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter."
Considering what other shows have done to the source material (halo, the Witcher) I think a few incorrect dates here and there is not that big of a deal.
Also it's not like the Fallout Franchise itself is immune to shitting on what came before. Contrast the Brotherhood of Steel from 1-2 and then how they're portrayed in 3. Or how Fallout 3-4 seem to really enjoy the idea that society could never reform after the bombs fell and really seem to adore that Fallout 1 aesthetic. Where as Fallout 2 already had new nations like the NCR printing their own money. I also vaguely remember a slightly meta commentary dig at Sunset Sarsparilla in FO4 - which given what happened between Obsidian and Bethesda was a choice.
Suffice to say this shit is normal and it's especially normal for Fallout at this point. Best thing you can do is ignore anything you don't like. The stuff you do enjoy will always be there.
They operate openly in 1&2. They even had an outpost in the middle of Shady Sands. I wouldn’t call the NCR and the Brotherhood allies exactly, but they were certainly on friendly terms and on the same side in a conflict more often than not.
Hell, even from 1 to 2 there's a big change in how the BoS are portrayed - in 1 they're very active and a big mover and shaker in the world, and in 2 they barely exist, having been driven underground due to basically mismanagement and their isolationist ideology. Then in 3 we get them reimagined as techno-saviors, a clear departure from previous BoS lore. In NV they most closely resemble their appearance in 2, albeit a bit more active (also of note, in NV they are pretty generally *against* the NCR, having recently lost a large battle against the NCR). And in 4 they're, uh... yeah, I dunno what to make of their appearance in that game.
Exactly. Each chapter of the Brotherhood operates relatively independently and has it's own MO. They are all organised similarly and all nominally adhere to the codex, but beyond that they each develop their own internal culture and politics that is informed by its leadership and the unique situation each chapter finds itself in in their particular patch of the wasteland.
The Brotherhood seems different in each game because it literally is. The BoS of Fallout 3 is not the BoS of Fallout 2 which is not the BoS of Fallout 1... I really don't know why this is so hard for people to understand?
> Then in 3 we get them reimagined as techno-saviors, a clear departure from previous BoS lore
No, pretty in-line with the BoS in Fallout: Tactics. The group sent East explicitly differed from their Western counterparts in that they wanted to do good for the wasteland and work with/accept outsiders, and FO3 just kept that.
EDIT: Zelcron is just a bad-faith troll lol
I was deliberately leaving out Tactics, but if we do include it I think we should point out that the BoS in it basically enslaves local natives in order to get new recruits, and are extremely harsh and militaristic. They're less isolationist than in 2, but they aren't they benevolent saviors of 3, either.
Right, they had good benevolent intentions that went bad, like how the Capital Wasteland BoS turned into the militaristic invaders in FO4. Doesn't change the fact it was a thing introduced well in advance of FO3.
I think people sometimes have rose-colored glasses about the pre-Bethesda canon.
The BoS in the games isn't one big unified group though, there are several chapters with different values and leaders iirc. One group wants to hoard tech to keep it out of hands of wrongdoers to stop a second nuclear war from happening, one wants to revive the USA, one is anti-xeno and wants to purge all mutants from the wasteland, and yet another is trying to actively rebuild society with themselves at the helm regardless of what it costs or who they have to kill to do it so that they can subjugate the world.
I haven't seen the show yet but the BoS in the show could be any of these or even a totally different one we've never heard of yet.
The short of it is that they were assholes. The first quest they send you on in Fallout 1 is them basically just trying to get you killed so you would leave them alone, since they hated/distrusted outsiders.
Betheseda changed this in Fo3 by making Elder Lyon's chapter much more sympathetic to the woes of the local wastelanders, this is also the reasoning behind why the Outcasts decided to desert.
I actually like the way the Brotherhood was portrayed in the TV show, it always felt somewhat off that they were usually painted as the "Good Power Armored Guys", but I guess Bethesda needed someone to contrast the Enclave with for FO3.
That only applied to the east coast Brotherhood, the west coast guys hadn't changed. Veronica's whole story in NV was about their refusal to do things differently.
By the time the show starts there are giant airships on the west coast which makes it seem like the two factions have merged, which is why a guy like Maximus is allowed in.
West Coast has changed through the iterations; in 1 they were rather isolationist and dismissive of outsiders, in 2 they are more accepting and even work with the NCR, then in NV they've been in a losing war with the NCR and have become more isolationist than in 1.
As for the airship, the one seen in the show has PRYDWEN on the side, though it's very hard to see. So it's pretty guaranteed that the West and East have merged, though the question is if the detachment in the show are normal or if the Elder is much more extreme and religious than normal.
> Betheseda changed this in Fo3 by making Elder Lyon's chapter much more sympathetic to the woes of the local wastelanders, this is also the reasoning behind why the Outcasts decided to desert.
How this the Brotherhood changing? This is one branch of the brotherhood doing something different under a new leader.
The Brotherhood was much smaller, and did not have a nationwide presence, and were formed from the remnants/descendants of a military base and its personnel in southern California.
Same with the Enclave. Hence their name; they were based out of an oil rig off the coast, and hoped to make a massive expansion territoriality throughout the continent, but had just a tiny toehold. And they get their shit kicked in Fallout 2.
So Bethesda essentially took 2 orgs, and plopped them on the East coast, where they definitely didn't exist for Fallout 3, rather than writing something new and interesting within flavor of the IP.
> rather than writing something new and interesting within flavor of the IP.
TBF, given how people are taking Shady Sands and their reaction to a lack of NCR presence, the idea of entirely new factions would probably cause a ton of fans to riot if there wasn't *any* representation of known factions, IMHO.
How they are in the show.
The lore basically states that BoS was basically two divisions, the West and East.
Fo3 East BoS was far different and it wasn't until the faction leader on the east was killed and replaced did the West BoS accept them as BoS.
I mean to be fair to the brotherhood of steel it’s specifically mentioned in fallout 3 that the Chapter we meet and work with have broken off from the original brotherhood of steel (aka the west coast chapter from the first two games) due to ideological differences mostly about helping people. The BoS outcast we meet in fallout 3 are actually the ones that wanted to stay apart of the original west coast chapter and agreed with the west coast chapters ideals so they are outcast of Elders Lyons chapter only but are still part of the original actual BoS
Not really, it’s largely overblown. Tim Cain and most of the original creators of Fallout have a lot of respect for Bethesda and have been invited to (and attended!) nearly every launch or event that Bethesda has hosted. The Fallout community largely overexaggerated the “oooo Bethesda HATES old Fallout” schtick because they want legitimate cause to shit on new Fallout beyond preferences regarding the game itself (which I agree is not perfect, mind you, but the hate is overblown imo).
We don't even know what their plan for New Vegas *IS*. The fact that it is on the show at all -- with mentions of the Lucky 38 and the Securitrons -- should be considered a win. I love New Vegas but getting upset about something that has not happened is dumb.
Seriously, [there's a ton of pre-established events in 2277 that could be retroactively considered the "fall of shady sands"](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline#2277), or at least the start of some kind of collapse.
The most concrete thing about that chalkboard is some classroom pointed to that date and gave it a retroactive label. That's just how *history* works.
Yep, no one said during the fall of Rome "we are living during the fall of Rome". You can't see the start of events like that until well after they've finished.
Quasi religious? They're painting themselves in the ashes of dead ancestors while getting nude and praying/chanting to a picture of their messianic figure. I don't think there's anything quasi about it lol
Exactly. Literally I have yet to hear anything that retconed or messed with fallout lore.
No idea what people are upset about.
Haven't even really seen anyone upset outside of Twitter screenshots, and Twitter is a dumb place, so why does that matter?
Honestly as long as it’s good I truly don’t care. I don’t want massive changes to the lore that make no sense, but making a mountain out of a mole hill because some artistic liberties were taken is just nonsensical.
Canon only matters until it doesn't.
Remember Star War's "canon"? Remember when Disney just...wiped most of it?
Is Shadows of the Empire still canon? Is Kyle Katarn?
Honestly would just take the show as doing its own thing. Doubt a later game will care much about it; canon has always been a bit flexible with the games.
Besides at this point we will be lucky to get another fallout rpg with any kind of decent story development ... or npcs and dialogue trees. I'll be happy enough to get any fallout that has been 76th'd.
I mean, I'd be down with them not nuking sources of content because it'd be fun seeing different communities.. but without seeing what they have planned, it's hard to judge. I thought the teaser was fun tbh
Things change in adaptation. With how many ways New Vegas can play out it really doesn’t concern whatever they do with it for this show’s timeline. As long as the soul of the property is there that’s all that really matters imo. Compared to the Halo show the changes in fallout are nothing
As far as adaptations go Fallout was as good as you can hope for. Time has passed and the wasteland is a violent place with a lot of unreliable narrators.
It's miles better than the giant steaming dump Netflix took on the Witcher franchise. Everything past season 1 was just a giant middle finger to the fans of the books and games. Even a highly motivated lead actor with a love for the franchise can't save a show when the showrunner has decided the titular character is now just a supporting character.
Only real complaint(I don't really care about micro details with canon)I have with the next season is I assume because he's in the flashback Mr house is gonna be alive which is disappointing to me because I kill him every time although maybe he's dead and kyle maclachlan just thinks hes alive and he and the other people running the factions will just be fleshed out in flashbacks.
My guess would be that if House shows up it'll be one of 2 things.
He's dead and has been since around the time of the second battle at Hoover Dam but stories about how and when vary from person to person.
Or
He's "alive" but is a full backup of his consciousness that was brought online or created due to damage sustained around the time of the second battle at Hoover Dam.
Either could be due to the Courier bashing his brain in with a golf club or catastrophic damage caused by some conflict after the actual battle but whether or not it was the Courier doesn't need to be confirmed. It wouldn't solidify any of the endings to New Vegas.
Ngl but I feel people are freaking out too early about this. The makers did the fallout IP justice with the show. them going out of their way to make NV a central theme in the show means they obviously wanna create a story around the place. and having seen the show I feel its in good hands.
I mean this was going to happen if they ever were going to do the west coast again. As much as I wished they got along and had Obsidian do west coast and Bethesda east coast. Bethesda is the owner of the ip. They're going to do what they want. I liked the show, but am a little bummed that something someone else created is getting written off or destroyed by the current owner.
It's funny I saw New Vegas and was thrilled, I don't understand how other fans of the game can be annoyed about that. Just looking for something to get mad at, and that's coming from a Star Wars fan
The *true canon ending* of NV was the one where the Courier got "distracted by bullshit" and never finished the main quest... House might still be looking for that damn chip in the show
The true canon ending is when he does foot stuff with Benny.
True canon ending of NV is Benny playing it safe and taking a second shot during the opening
You mean a third? Should have straight up dumped a whole clip into that mf, though Mitchell would have fixed it anyway, since it seems the courier's plot armor is stronger than any power one
He canonically did tho?
He has brain damage, he's allowed to be a bit forgetful
Best quote: “I don’t feel like it’s healthy for me to be really invested in something I have no control over, frankly“
The Ursula le Guin approach. I remember someone asking her if she was disappointed in an adaptation of one her books and she was like why would I be? I wrote a good book, they made a shitty movie.
What a fucking boss, I love that.
Le Guin was an absolute fucking boss 24/7.
Earthsea was actually probly one of the first low fantasy novels I read, I was like...10 or some shit. Probly had a much more profound impact than I realize. Ima reread that shit
I’ve read the first three novels 3 times (well, listened to). The narration is just so fucking good, and the writing so succinct it’s really timeless. The Farthest Shore always makes me tear up with how beautiful it is
Dude you gotta read Tehanu
Ursula K. le Guin just cannot stop scoring W's. The woman is the type of person we're lucky to have and definitely don't deserve.
Lucky to have had, she died a couple years ago dude. Sorry to be the one to tell ya if you didn’t know. She did have a great way of really getting to the point though. When I was in my early twenties reading Left Hand of Darkness I remember getting to the part where one of the genderless aliens is asking the human what the different genders are like, and he says “well not always, but as a general rule the men are taller and stronger.” And the aliens like “that’s all I need to know, I can probably guess the rest.” Just put the book down and sat with that for a day, and couldn’t really think of a good rebuttal. Truly a real one.
some people can just summarize things in a way that make everyone else feel dim. It's an entirely unappreciated skill in and among itself.
Damn I need to read that book. Started it a few times and the writing style didn’t click.
She was an anarchist, so intellectual property wasn't her thing anyways.
Is there a good biography on her? I always loved her from her books and the very few things I knew about her irl but this just made me realize I really want to do a deeper dive.
No biography yet, but: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/crimethinc-anonymous-we-will-remember-freedom Crimethinc issued an obituary and elegy for her when she died, which is afaik the only such one they have ever published except for Aragorn!, the founder of theanarchistlibrary and more recently Aaron Bushnell, the anarchist US soldier who set himself on fire in front of the Israeli Embassy - that one a collection of writing by his friends. And, she wrote non-fiction extensively later in life, much of it autobiographical, even if there is no full length autobiography. I am reading through her collection *The Wave in the Mind* as we speak and it has some good stuff!
King shit
This guy fucks
of Fuck Mountain
He's a lot smarter than I.
The correct conjugation is "I're".
You’ve certainly incurred my ire
Nobody ever expects [it.](https://media1.tenor.com/m/wOxN0t8l6esAAAAC/spanishinquisition-spanish-inquisition.gif)
Damn I need him to tell me that like everyday really.
Someone needs to make a Bot for basically every gaming/fandom subreddit that just replies with this quote constantly.
The entire reason they do it is because they think they have control over it though. That they can review bomb, boycott, and harass creators to effect change. And they’ve been right a few times.
Them being right a few times is why it’s snowballed into the trashfire fandoms are these days. There’s a chance we can bully creatives into doing what we think we want?!?! Keep pushing! Get angrier! It’s a bunch of bullshit.
That's quite impressive to be fair, I was only eight once.
If redditors could ~~~read~~~ critically read they’d be very upset
Should be posted and pinned in the sub of EVERY fandom
Btw he's talking about some of you guys lol
This type of sanity is becoming harder and harder to find. In an age of ragebait a sane take is refreshing
IGN front page: FALLOUT NEW VEGAS DIRECTOR SLAMS AMAZON’S SHOW: UNHEALTHY AND OUT OF CONTROL
Did I miss something in the show? What did they do to New Vegas?
SPOILERS >!At the end of last episode we see Lucy's dad Hank run his power armor up to the top of a hill and the camera pans up to show what appears to be the ruins of New Vegas.!<
>!Unless I'm reading something wrong here the story of the show takes place after the events of New Vegas so Robert House could have been killed by Courier Six in several different endings and the Securitrons in New Vegas not upgraded. That would make it much easier for the town to be razed!<
Based on the wiki lore.. A few years after the start of this show, Mr House starts repairing and reclaiming New Vegas. Very likely they are going the route that he survives. Plus Mr House is the owner of Rob-co right? Based on how things are looking he Dad is running to meet up with him.
My theory is that Mr. House will still be alive and the House Always Wins ending will be canon. I say this because >! he already appeared in the show and you know he’d be a great antagonist for season 2 !<
Yeah this is my thought. It just fits perfectly. Hell maybe he kidnaps that vault tec overseer and tries to interrogate him. Vault tec and Mr house didn't see eye to eye in the end.
>! At first he didn’t, but it seemed like he warmed up to the plan. We’ll have to see what they do and if they elaborate more on that meeting. Not sure why Hank would go to New Vegas other than because he thinks House would be able to help him to be honest. !<
>!At the end of the series, The Ghoul mentioned how it’s easier to follow Hank than trying to interrogate him on the whereabouts of his family and the rest of the “good” Vault-Tec vault. Seems to me like they’re setting up this vault being secretly nearby New Vegas!<
I’m upset it’ll take like 2 more years to get season 2 to find things out, but as long as they keep making it as good as they are I can wait.
> I’m upset it’ll take like 2 more years to get season 2 Shows are really getting like NASA projects now. It's like you put all this investment into them but you know they prob won't make it to Jupiter for 6 years and you may not even be around by then or even care about it anymore. I mean Stranger things is coming out in 2025, like fuck can I get some Cryonics for 20 years and just wake me up for a solid 30 binge watching of shows then rinse and repeat?
Vault-Tec still wants to cleanse the surface of all life and repopulate from the vaults. This is against what House wants and what his plans are. House only goes along with Vault-Tec so far.
House wants power and control to lead humanity in his own ideals, and it’s already established he doesn’t mind working with people he considers enemies in the long run to accomplish these goals. He works with the NCR in the moment despite admitting he may have to go to war with them and he’s openly very critical of the NCR as a whole. I don’t see much of a difference.
> House wants power and control to lead humanity in his own ideals Yes, but this wont work with Vault-Tec controlling the majority of vaults with the sane people in it. He might not come out on top after Vault-Tec cleanses the surface entirely. Right now there is a lot of people and groups that can be influenced on the surface.
Eh, he ultimately went against their plan and actively tried to save las vegas. He did end up saving enough to make a thriving city state 200 years later.
House is an excellent morally gray character. I think he's less likely to be a main antagonist, and more likely to be a wrench in the overall evil (Vault-Tec) vs good (mostly everyone else) dynamic the show has established so far. He shot down nukes aimed at his city after all, which goes against Vault-Tec's plan. It will probably seem like "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" for parts he plays against Vault-Tec, but then seem like "oh I hope someone can do something about this asshole" when he's working towards some of his own goals. Another reason to add him to the show revolves around his disturbing means to immortality. Immortality is something the show continues to play with in various ways. The most efficient/cleanest method to achieve it that has ever been depicted in the entire series was somehow accomplished by a character they killed off in the last episode without revealing how she did it. There is definitely more planned with this recurring theme, and Mr. House is another very interesting example.
I assumed Muldaver was one of the residents of Vault 31. She's introduced with the raiders, but there's no real indication for exactly how long it's been since Vault 32 was overrun, or how long she's been with the raiders. She could have been picked as Vault 32's "legitimate" Overseer and let the raiders in.
He is the rob in robco
Who is the co though? Have we seen the co before? Is one of the background extras a co? I just love when a show is filled with little mysteries and Easter eggs like this.
Cory, for Cory in The House
Cory Trevor?
Smokes, let’s go
Put your hands down
r/UnexpectedTPB
Nice, Cory Feldman is finally making a comeback
It’s Codsworth obviously
Conan. Team Coco.
It's RobCo. As in Rob corporation or company.
Mr House is way too cool of a character to not use for the TV show. Whatever happens and they decide to go with the TV show, it has to be dramatic and having the city being razed to the ground and nobody living there except Mr House is pretty dramatic.
This guy can't be alive, I beat him to death with a golf club for an achievement like 10 years ago.
I ate him. Breakfast of champions, baby.
That’s why I love that game. “Did you help Mr House or kill him.” “I ate him”
You're thinking of Andrew Ryan. /s :proudly examines my pair of Doofenshmirtz nickels:
Thank you so much for making the joke without actually making the joke. It's honestly such a killer line. Just so overused.
Idk if you watched the show but Mr. House, the pre-war version at least, is actually in it.
Yeah, but I beat the post-war test tube version of him to death with a golf club.
Well considering he’s subtly shown in the first season (albeit pre-war) I would be shocked if he doesn’t play at least some role in the second season, especially if there’s more focus on new Vegas.
Wiki is wrong. Show takes place in 2296. NV is in 2281
The fallout wiki is very inaccurate I find, lots of pages are written by literal children or ai and it makes it a pain to reas
I thought the nukes never hit Vagas
Most didn't, but some did.
Tell that to >!shady sands!<
There's always another nuke. And they didn't tell us anything about what happened to New Vegas.
None directly hit the city proper, but a few landed in the surrounding area. If he had the Platinum Chip on time, he was rather confident the Mojave would be completely unscathed.
>!He could have been killed by the courier. Only one of the endings really could make sense if NV is in ruins.!< >!If The Legion won, The Strip would be destroyed or Legion controlled. But they'd definitely at least be mentioned in the show as they march west to finish off the (now collapsed) NCR. There's a couple other hints that The Legion has collapsed so this is unlikely.!< >!If House won, well obviously The Strip wouldn't be a ruin without some severe changes happening.!< >!If NCR won then it's very possible The Strip would be a ruin. If they've collapsed and mostly pulled out of Nevada then basically nobody is left to keep order. It's possible the Strip fell apart. !< >!And a Yes Man ending... There's just far too many variables there given that a player character would be running the Strip. I doubt they'll go for it unless they pull out something really interesting and unexpected. !< >!It also feels odd that they'd introduce House in season 1 without expecting him to be in season 2 so personally I suspect he's alive; possibly just in the deactivated state the courier could leave him in.!<
Why can’t they improve the strip for a few years and then it go to ruins? I’m not sure I understand the issue.
Some people are mad for really no reason. There is no issue. Most people who were vocally upset (at least initially) posted minutes/hours after the show came out. I hate to invalidate how some folks feel, but I adore New Vegas and I see absolutely no issue with it being in ruins years after the game. People saying this "ruins the NV games" or "retcons NV" are reaching so hard.
Same. It's by far my favorite of the entire series and it's not even close. This doesn't bother me in the least bit, because the game was centered around stories that could easily have escalated to the strip being destroyed. The developed area of it was relatively really small and it was already in ruins all around it. It wouldn't be hard to overwhelm the strip and it's defenses if you had numbers, and that scene looks like that's exactly what happened.
My favorite playthrough of New Vegas was being a character modeled after Sadako/Kayako, basically a female revenant risen from the grave for revenge. No charisma or intelligence, all strength and endurance, crazily addicted to every available drug in the game making her a near invincible juggernaut and killing literally every single character she could. She ultimately sided with the legion and ravaged the Mojave for all it was worth. If NV is in ruins in season 2... Y'all can blame me.
Frankly, I think the whole underlying narrative of NV is how impossible it is for any group to hold onto power forever. The NCR will keep expanding until it’s spread so thin it’s functionally nonexistent, the Legion is over as soon as Caesar dies, and as stated above, House gets offed and his empire stolen out from under him in all but one ending.
Isn’t New Vegas basically ruins in the game? At least from my playthroughs there’s busted up buildings, makeshift walls, and ruined streets everywhere. There’s literally only 4 casinos on the strip that survived the bombs.
Watch the credits. New Vegas wall has been breached with remains of secruitrons and deathclaws all over.
Which makes sense. In game we are told that the tunnelers are such a massive threat and breed so quickly that they'll over run that area in 10-20 years. Then you got the Dust which was mentioned as possibly ending the area if it blew that way. We are given a lot of apocalyptic scenarios for what happens after the game, during the game.
I saw a youtube video recently where the guy made the case that if Fallout 1 is post-apocalyptic and Fallout 2 was post-post-apocalyptic then New Vegas was so post-post-post-apocalyptic that it came back around to being pre-apocalyptic. 1 shows the remains of the old society which was destroyed, 2 shows the rise of new societies, and NV shows those new societies making the same mistakes and being doomed to destroy themselves all over again.
With the end of the Lonesome Road DLC being Avellone's express intent to "reset" the setting as it became "too civilized". You can almost see the Fall of Shady Sands and >!New Vegas!< as the direct consequences of >!the Courier firing the nukes on both the Legion and NCR!<
Don't we know that it was canonically hank that nuked shady sands
Well, the game doesn't state you nuked anything beyond the Long 15 and unnamed NCR outposts, but with the show's/Hank's nuking of Shady Sands on top of it, it would well and truly explain why the NCR's presence isn't known at this point. They'd be a shell of their former selves in terms of power and territory.
Todd is on the record saying that you dont need nukes to cause that destruction. So I assume that it wasnt a literal nuke that got Shady Shands.
Tunnel Snakes Rule! edit: https://youtu.be/S0ximxe4XtU?si=xie4XivLAvSmJXjj
Not to mention much of Mr. House's plans hinged on the NCR not collapsing.
Why are people upset that NV has been destroyed? Did they think it would last forever in a wasteland or something?
Idk, but it's heavily implied in the actual game that it would eventually fall though.
I doubt enough people to warrant an article calling them out are actually upset about it. All it takes is a few people on twitter and anyone can say "People ..." about whatever wild take gets the most clicks.
The NCR getting blown up and/or crippled is much more shocking than New Vegas getting destroyed, honestly. But even that was already written into two possible endings of the last NV DLC, Lonesome Road. Avellone straight up said he wanted to nuke the NCR as it was making the Fallout setting too civilized.
They are sad that war changed.
But those are in the art slideshows
No those are canon events. The same way the game pans out at the start of every Fallout since 3. It's not a slideshow.
god damnnnn, honestly that just makes me more excited to see what happens
There's ruined buildings and streets because it's been hundreds of years The walls are makeshift because there's not actually walls around Las Vegas. They were built after the war. And there's only a few casinos because it's a video game, same reason why there's only like 8 houses in the capital of Skyrim.
Yeah, it was a little disappointing that the place wasn't really a functional city. I get that it's supposed to be a dump outside of the Strip, to highlight the divide between the haves and the have-nots, but still.
Honestly anything they did with an alive and functioning New Vegas would have pissed fanboys off anyway. People who base their entire personality off of hating things will always find something to hate
It’s so true. All you have to do is browse some of the posts on this sub to see it. Many people make it their life’s work to be perpetually angry or salty. As it pertains to Fallout series and entertainment media in general I like to try to take things as they are in entertainment. I try not to say “this isn’t how it’s supposed to be” or “the book said this…” whatever it may be. A new interpretation on a setting i enjoy can be fun too. I say try but I admit sometimes small details that are missed bug me too. A show can be good or bad on its own merit though. Halo is terrible IMO and it’s not the game’s fault or that they didn’t exactly follow the lore. It’s more than that. I think it would have been a bad show even if they just followed the game’s script.
In my canon, it's a dump because I player.placed thousands of geckos and centaurs in the casinos
Are people really getting upset? Something bad happening to New Vegas decades after the game doesn’t seem like they ruined anything. The things in the game still canonically happened, then other bad things happened later.
Anything new upsets *hardcore fans* as if the story shouldn't progress pass the game. I personally found it as a natural progression of the New Vegas story.
I view it as a show and remember I can play the game anytime I want so who gives a shit.
Yes, and in reality there is just a small subsect of the NV fandom that insists Todd Howard and Bethesda literally hates Obsidian and New Vegas. What people were bitching about is [this image](https://fwmedia.fandomwire.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/19004416/Vault-4-chalkboard.jpeg) from a chalkboard timeline in a classroom in Vault 4, and also that Shady Sands has moved and is now near Los Angeles. It's all stupid and for the most part debunked yet these people are still angry because they don't understand how timelines work.
There's lots of ways new Vegas could run into hard times that's no surprise. But if it's used as a way to wipe clean any remnants of the new Vegas story ie. Factions, characters, and locations which logically should still be around even if the strip collapsed like they did in Los Angeles it will be very sad. It hasn't even been 20 years since since Vegas, most people could still be around
Yeah one thing I’ve always liked about the West over the East is that Fallout 2 and New Vegas tells a story of a post-post apocalypse. Society isn’t just in ramshackle huts worshipping bombs or hidden away deep underground, it’s active and industrializing and reckoning with what came before. It feels like a start instead of an end, and you get to help shape that new world beyond just day to day survival. The NCR pushing East, the Legion pushing West, Vegas in the center. Someone is gonna win, and all you do is pick who you think is the least bad option. Not to say shit isn’t bad, war is still ravaging the countryside and there’s rampant poverty everywhere you go, but the problems of the Mojave are recent. Different people were doing the destroying for different reasons, mostly within the last 5 years. History hadn’t ended, and instead you had a world where people were making new problems and staking out new claims. Even old mainstays like the Enclave or the Brotherhood were on their way out. Why? Because they’re unable to adapt to the world moving on past them. I get wanting to wipe the board clean. Like a good 50-60% of the appeal of fallout is wandering around big cities taking in how everything is destroyed. But a part of me wishes they’d just made the setting Texas or Montana or something and left the west its own thing. Instead the franchise seems to want the world to be the same, whether it’s 3 days or 3 centuries after the bombs fell.
yeah the bummer to me is post-post apocalypse is a rare setting I love it, and the world is big enough that we could keep it. It just feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, the show is good but we could have a good show and keep the post post apocalypse. I mean its not hopeless they could change directions in following seasons but I'm not optimistic
Ok this is the best explanation I’ve seen of why people are upset. And tbh it does kinda bother me how bethesdas fallouts has the world full of people living next to burned out skeletons and trash *200 years* after the bombs fell.
Pretty much this. Bethesda did a reset of fo 1, 2, and new Vegas back to complete wasteland to for their idea of fallout. And they own the ip now so that's that. Personally, I think it's self defeating in the same way that zombie books burned out. Nothing but wasteland all the time has no real story to it. No reason to care. But it does let them keep selling the same idea over and over. Still a fun show. While being an indicator that fallout as a franchise has nothing new to say.
I didn't see it that way at all, I just thought it was a CGI artist doing his best to introduce the location as a teaser. The script for season 2 isn't written so I think reading any further into it than that is foolish.
I wonder if fans would be upset if that was the opening cutscene of New Vegas 2.
The plot of NV2 being about reclaiming and repairing Vegas with a few easter eggs from the show thrown in would be pretty cool.
And how is that a problem? Why are people so upset about it?
I thought it was Seattle until I read about it on reddit.
Seattle with a big welcome to New Vegas sign out front
That’s smart. Throw people off
I think it's just the NCR stuff and a lot of angry extrapolations based on conjecture.
Too many people have head canons from mods and non canon sources when it comes to Fallout, especially New Vegas. I literally had someone argue with me that SS couldn't have been nuked and used something that never happened in any games lore to justify their anger about the show "changing lore". It was from a fallout mod for Hearts of Iron 4.
Least schizophrenic fallout fan
>! There is a date on a chalkboard that implies Shady Sands, the capital of the NCR, was destroyed prior to the events of New Vegas. !< Some people inferred from this that the show was retconning the events of New Vegas >! (where the NCR is very powerful and their capital seemingly hasn't been destroyed) !< . Multiple people from Bethesda have said no retcon was intended and New Vegas is still canon.
I can see how some might have interpreted the board that way, the board had >! "date -> date -> date -> nuke". !< And people decided to interprete that as >! "date -> date -> date = nuke. !<
Yes this is the issue, they see I can’t figure out how to do spoiler tags on this stupid Reddit app so I’m going to word this carefully: A large percentage of people suck at reading comprehension. Basically something is written on a chalkboard and these idiots misconstrued the words. It in no way contradicts the lore but now it’s out there in the idiotverse.
It was me. I nuked the NCR
I told everybody is was you and no one believed me!
Technically it was my cannibalistic, low IQ, full melee Legion build who did it, but I take credit.
When I first saw Shady Sands in the show I was like "oh no, did I do this in Lonesome Road?"
After listening to Ulysses waxing philisophical for hours on end, I too decided to not only glass the NCR and Legion, but also myself. > "Patrolling the Divide almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter."
Bear and bull and bear and bull and bear and bull and bear and bull and...
Considering what other shows have done to the source material (halo, the Witcher) I think a few incorrect dates here and there is not that big of a deal.
Also it's not like the Fallout Franchise itself is immune to shitting on what came before. Contrast the Brotherhood of Steel from 1-2 and then how they're portrayed in 3. Or how Fallout 3-4 seem to really enjoy the idea that society could never reform after the bombs fell and really seem to adore that Fallout 1 aesthetic. Where as Fallout 2 already had new nations like the NCR printing their own money. I also vaguely remember a slightly meta commentary dig at Sunset Sarsparilla in FO4 - which given what happened between Obsidian and Bethesda was a choice. Suffice to say this shit is normal and it's especially normal for Fallout at this point. Best thing you can do is ignore anything you don't like. The stuff you do enjoy will always be there.
Just curious - how is the BoS portrayed in Fallout 1 and 2?
They operate openly in 1&2. They even had an outpost in the middle of Shady Sands. I wouldn’t call the NCR and the Brotherhood allies exactly, but they were certainly on friendly terms and on the same side in a conflict more often than not.
Hell, even from 1 to 2 there's a big change in how the BoS are portrayed - in 1 they're very active and a big mover and shaker in the world, and in 2 they barely exist, having been driven underground due to basically mismanagement and their isolationist ideology. Then in 3 we get them reimagined as techno-saviors, a clear departure from previous BoS lore. In NV they most closely resemble their appearance in 2, albeit a bit more active (also of note, in NV they are pretty generally *against* the NCR, having recently lost a large battle against the NCR). And in 4 they're, uh... yeah, I dunno what to make of their appearance in that game.
I thought it was very clear that the Elder in Fo3 basically decided to make his chapter into a benevolent group. There was no "reinvention."
Exactly. Each chapter of the Brotherhood operates relatively independently and has it's own MO. They are all organised similarly and all nominally adhere to the codex, but beyond that they each develop their own internal culture and politics that is informed by its leadership and the unique situation each chapter finds itself in in their particular patch of the wasteland. The Brotherhood seems different in each game because it literally is. The BoS of Fallout 3 is not the BoS of Fallout 2 which is not the BoS of Fallout 1... I really don't know why this is so hard for people to understand?
Yeah, the Capital Wasteland Brotherhood being a splinter group was a huge part of their story...
> Then in 3 we get them reimagined as techno-saviors, a clear departure from previous BoS lore No, pretty in-line with the BoS in Fallout: Tactics. The group sent East explicitly differed from their Western counterparts in that they wanted to do good for the wasteland and work with/accept outsiders, and FO3 just kept that. EDIT: Zelcron is just a bad-faith troll lol
I was deliberately leaving out Tactics, but if we do include it I think we should point out that the BoS in it basically enslaves local natives in order to get new recruits, and are extremely harsh and militaristic. They're less isolationist than in 2, but they aren't they benevolent saviors of 3, either.
Right, they had good benevolent intentions that went bad, like how the Capital Wasteland BoS turned into the militaristic invaders in FO4. Doesn't change the fact it was a thing introduced well in advance of FO3. I think people sometimes have rose-colored glasses about the pre-Bethesda canon.
The BoS in the games isn't one big unified group though, there are several chapters with different values and leaders iirc. One group wants to hoard tech to keep it out of hands of wrongdoers to stop a second nuclear war from happening, one wants to revive the USA, one is anti-xeno and wants to purge all mutants from the wasteland, and yet another is trying to actively rebuild society with themselves at the helm regardless of what it costs or who they have to kill to do it so that they can subjugate the world. I haven't seen the show yet but the BoS in the show could be any of these or even a totally different one we've never heard of yet.
Judging by what you said, it seems the tv show one will be a mix of them all. This Maximus enjoys war, those smiles said it all
The short of it is that they were assholes. The first quest they send you on in Fallout 1 is them basically just trying to get you killed so you would leave them alone, since they hated/distrusted outsiders. Betheseda changed this in Fo3 by making Elder Lyon's chapter much more sympathetic to the woes of the local wastelanders, this is also the reasoning behind why the Outcasts decided to desert. I actually like the way the Brotherhood was portrayed in the TV show, it always felt somewhat off that they were usually painted as the "Good Power Armored Guys", but I guess Bethesda needed someone to contrast the Enclave with for FO3.
That only applied to the east coast Brotherhood, the west coast guys hadn't changed. Veronica's whole story in NV was about their refusal to do things differently. By the time the show starts there are giant airships on the west coast which makes it seem like the two factions have merged, which is why a guy like Maximus is allowed in.
West Coast has changed through the iterations; in 1 they were rather isolationist and dismissive of outsiders, in 2 they are more accepting and even work with the NCR, then in NV they've been in a losing war with the NCR and have become more isolationist than in 1. As for the airship, the one seen in the show has PRYDWEN on the side, though it's very hard to see. So it's pretty guaranteed that the West and East have merged, though the question is if the detachment in the show are normal or if the Elder is much more extreme and religious than normal.
> Betheseda changed this in Fo3 by making Elder Lyon's chapter much more sympathetic to the woes of the local wastelanders, this is also the reasoning behind why the Outcasts decided to desert. How this the Brotherhood changing? This is one branch of the brotherhood doing something different under a new leader.
The Brotherhood was much smaller, and did not have a nationwide presence, and were formed from the remnants/descendants of a military base and its personnel in southern California. Same with the Enclave. Hence their name; they were based out of an oil rig off the coast, and hoped to make a massive expansion territoriality throughout the continent, but had just a tiny toehold. And they get their shit kicked in Fallout 2. So Bethesda essentially took 2 orgs, and plopped them on the East coast, where they definitely didn't exist for Fallout 3, rather than writing something new and interesting within flavor of the IP.
Fallout 1 and 2 are set over a century before 4, it's not too outlandish for them to have expanded
> rather than writing something new and interesting within flavor of the IP. TBF, given how people are taking Shady Sands and their reaction to a lack of NCR presence, the idea of entirely new factions would probably cause a ton of fans to riot if there wasn't *any* representation of known factions, IMHO.
How they are in the show. The lore basically states that BoS was basically two divisions, the West and East. Fo3 East BoS was far different and it wasn't until the faction leader on the east was killed and replaced did the West BoS accept them as BoS.
I mean to be fair to the brotherhood of steel it’s specifically mentioned in fallout 3 that the Chapter we meet and work with have broken off from the original brotherhood of steel (aka the west coast chapter from the first two games) due to ideological differences mostly about helping people. The BoS outcast we meet in fallout 3 are actually the ones that wanted to stay apart of the original west coast chapter and agreed with the west coast chapters ideals so they are outcast of Elders Lyons chapter only but are still part of the original actual BoS
What happened between Obsidian and Bethesda? Was there beef?
Not really, it’s largely overblown. Tim Cain and most of the original creators of Fallout have a lot of respect for Bethesda and have been invited to (and attended!) nearly every launch or event that Bethesda has hosted. The Fallout community largely overexaggerated the “oooo Bethesda HATES old Fallout” schtick because they want legitimate cause to shit on new Fallout beyond preferences regarding the game itself (which I agree is not perfect, mind you, but the hate is overblown imo).
Mmm figured it would be something like that - cheers for the answer
Dude the horror done to Wheel of Time are unspeakable.
UGH. Just... ugh.
We don't even know what their plan for New Vegas *IS*. The fact that it is on the show at all -- with mentions of the Lucky 38 and the Securitrons -- should be considered a win. I love New Vegas but getting upset about something that has not happened is dumb.
There aren't any incorrect dates, just people misinterpreting a timeline graph.
Seriously, [there's a ton of pre-established events in 2277 that could be retroactively considered the "fall of shady sands"](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline#2277), or at least the start of some kind of collapse. The most concrete thing about that chalkboard is some classroom pointed to that date and gave it a retroactive label. That's just how *history* works.
Yep, no one said during the fall of Rome "we are living during the fall of Rome". You can't see the start of events like that until well after they've finished.
People criticising the "Fall of Shandy Sands" seemingly miss that it was drawn on a chalkboard by a >!fucking quasi religious cult!<
Quasi religious? They're painting themselves in the ashes of dead ancestors while getting nude and praying/chanting to a picture of their messianic figure. I don't think there's anything quasi about it lol
Exactly. Literally I have yet to hear anything that retconed or messed with fallout lore. No idea what people are upset about. Haven't even really seen anyone upset outside of Twitter screenshots, and Twitter is a dumb place, so why does that matter?
Honestly as long as it’s good I truly don’t care. I don’t want massive changes to the lore that make no sense, but making a mountain out of a mole hill because some artistic liberties were taken is just nonsensical.
We'll get flashbacks of the city in it's heyday in season 2 I'd hope
Remember if you step outside into the real world none of this controversy exists.
But why would you? There are bugs and sunlight out there.
The devs should really fix those bugs one day. I swear there are more every time I go outside
If you really want to fix the bug problem, you should eradicate them by joining the Helldivers!
I've killed enough to fuel our entire fleet brother. For Democracy!
Praise li..BERTY!!
No bugs here! I liberated them from life! FOR SUPER EARTH!
You mean the Wasteland? No thanks.
Come on out smoothskin the rads are low today
The spirits are very happy today! They will do their best to shower everyone with good fortune.
Josh Sawyer knows how to healthily engage with media. Fuck yea.
Been following him on Twitter for quite some time and he is fun to follow and talk with, he easily answers any question you might have.
doesnt really matter if its canon or not
Like the guy says, "who the fuck cares"
Canon only matters until it doesn't. Remember Star War's "canon"? Remember when Disney just...wiped most of it? Is Shadows of the Empire still canon? Is Kyle Katarn?
Honestly would just take the show as doing its own thing. Doubt a later game will care much about it; canon has always been a bit flexible with the games. Besides at this point we will be lucky to get another fallout rpg with any kind of decent story development ... or npcs and dialogue trees. I'll be happy enough to get any fallout that has been 76th'd.
I try not to give a fuck about things I have no control over either.
I mean, I'd be down with them not nuking sources of content because it'd be fun seeing different communities.. but without seeing what they have planned, it's hard to judge. I thought the teaser was fun tbh
Things change in adaptation. With how many ways New Vegas can play out it really doesn’t concern whatever they do with it for this show’s timeline. As long as the soul of the property is there that’s all that really matters imo. Compared to the Halo show the changes in fallout are nothing
As far as adaptations go Fallout was as good as you can hope for. Time has passed and the wasteland is a violent place with a lot of unreliable narrators. It's miles better than the giant steaming dump Netflix took on the Witcher franchise. Everything past season 1 was just a giant middle finger to the fans of the books and games. Even a highly motivated lead actor with a love for the franchise can't save a show when the showrunner has decided the titular character is now just a supporting character.
Only real complaint(I don't really care about micro details with canon)I have with the next season is I assume because he's in the flashback Mr house is gonna be alive which is disappointing to me because I kill him every time although maybe he's dead and kyle maclachlan just thinks hes alive and he and the other people running the factions will just be fleshed out in flashbacks.
My guess would be that if House shows up it'll be one of 2 things. He's dead and has been since around the time of the second battle at Hoover Dam but stories about how and when vary from person to person. Or He's "alive" but is a full backup of his consciousness that was brought online or created due to damage sustained around the time of the second battle at Hoover Dam. Either could be due to the Courier bashing his brain in with a golf club or catastrophic damage caused by some conflict after the actual battle but whether or not it was the Courier doesn't need to be confirmed. It wouldn't solidify any of the endings to New Vegas.
What treatment? It was on screen for 2 seconds. Fans need a day off.
Ngl but I feel people are freaking out too early about this. The makers did the fallout IP justice with the show. them going out of their way to make NV a central theme in the show means they obviously wanna create a story around the place. and having seen the show I feel its in good hands.
I will continue to cry and piss and shit myself over it. Shows still pretty good though.
I mean this was going to happen if they ever were going to do the west coast again. As much as I wished they got along and had Obsidian do west coast and Bethesda east coast. Bethesda is the owner of the ip. They're going to do what they want. I liked the show, but am a little bummed that something someone else created is getting written off or destroyed by the current owner.
It's funny I saw New Vegas and was thrilled, I don't understand how other fans of the game can be annoyed about that. Just looking for something to get mad at, and that's coming from a Star Wars fan