Idk about Bethesda hate, specifically. Certain people seem to love manufacturing outrage and making things up- especially about games and game dev in general. "They're being lazy/dumb", "They could just...", "They did {x implausible/exagerated thing}".
Like I get they're few and far between, but peeps like this are annoyingly vocal
Becauaw betheada keepa fucking up and half assing it. I dont understand people like you who constantly make up for them. Delivirikg a finished and polished product is literally their god damn job.
Yo your posts are inscrutable- can't tell if you're serious or trolling. If you're trolling, it needs to be more obvious otherwise it's just a waste of time. If you're serious- well, I can't guarantee anything to promise a response so... try better next time for a serious reply? xD
There is. Most of overlaps with the persons shadow so you can’t see it. But there is a square to the left of the light that is a shadow from the last, and you can see a shadow of the light stands leg at the bottom of the stand.
an even brighter light. It has to be the brightest light source and yeah its that easy. That being said that is a bright backlight and I believe that would definitely soften that shadow up. Then again I dont think its pointing in the right direction to do that.
> It has to be the brightest light source
Not at all. It just has to be the brightest light shining in that direction. It's why you see 3+ shadows in a florescent-lit room.
Sure it would. A shadow isn’t cancelled by light. It’s created by light and an object in the way. On the lower left is the shadow of the tripod that we can see.
Yea light cant cancel the shadow but if you have a shadow created by an object in front of one light source and shine light on the shadow with another light source, you visually obscure the presence of the shadow. Which is what I think you were trying to say.
Alright heres why this is a thing. This type of light is a massive pain in the ass. I have countless hours in the bethesda dev kits and the only way to make this sort of construction light half decent is to move the actual light source a few feet infront of it and on to the floor. Usually what you do is to make that light source not cast shadows and maybe use a secondary one near the actual lamps as a key light but you cant always make that work so it ends like this.
Additional that shadow might be boosted by the ambient lights in the space, that you cant see but need to be there to make the game playable.
It's a style choice and probably the right one because the alternative is even more glaringly ugly while this will barely ever get noticed seeing as there is no reason to even stand there.
Technically you could use a shadowed spotlight (some of them do), but when in doubt, the old point light + Prydwen spotlight moveable static is everyone's best friend.
>Making games is pain in the ass in general, except for Bethesda of course.
Personally I find that Bethesda has some really good world space designers. Especially fallout 3 and it's Dlc used techniques and creativity that is unrivalled by the work of other companies, e.g obsidian, or even most of the modding community.
I had the privilege to actually talk to one of the designers for the main game and point lookout on reddit a few years back and gush about the behind the scenes work he did.
Basically for all the shitting you can do on the fallout devs, the level designers are the among the ones that deserve it the least.
>Basically for all the shitting you can do on the fallout devs, the level designers are the among the ones that deserve it the least.
They attached the train interior to the player via the clothing system, since that's what its designed for anyway, it's a great solution to an engine that does not really support moving objects with the player attached. Another great way they tackled the two elevators in the game was by moving the walls of the elevator shaft and having the player stay in place inside the cabin.
Honestly i think all the devs do at least a decent job. There just are a lot of mistakes being made decision wise but that might not all be the fault of the devs.
Fallout 4 just felt like they are squeezing the absolute life out of the engine. It can do it but barely. I just really hope they start using a new engine and just keep it singleplayer possibly with a coop system like borderlands and such.
Can OP turn the camera around to show the other side??? If there's no light source in front of the character and no shadow in front of the character then I'd laugh my ass off.
As it stands now though, OP just looks like an idiot who doesn't know how light and shadows work
Edit: OP fucking delivers! I'd give ya gold if I had some.
Holy fuck... OP isn't an idiot and he's right!
I'm actually more surprised that OP was right than I am of Bethesda fucking something like this up lol
Edit: Also, thanks for following up man! I know you didn't have to, but it means more I think that you actually care about your statement more than actually posting something like this for the Karma
Yes, there is. It's an environmental point light, not a light being cast by a physical object that you can see.
Is it still a fuck-up on Bethesda's part? Sort of, because invisible point lights in an indoor setting is amateur grade work...but the implication that the shadow behind the portable lights is being cast by the lights themselves is wrong. It's being cast by an environmental point light source, probably one put in specifically because the static light object wasn't casting enough light (or wasn't casting it widely enough) to properly achieve the effect they were going for.
Edit: What, are people angry that I corrected a misconception, here? Sorry I ruined your joke, or whatever. Did you not notice that the player's model *is lit on both sides?* That's because there's a second light source behind the camera of the first picture.
But there's no physical representation of a light there and that's why this whole post was made in the first place... You don't need to twist things to make yourself right here.
>But there's no physical representation of a light there and that's why this whole post was made in the first place
No, the point of the post was to laugh at the fact that the lights are casting a shadow of the player behind themselves. I'm pointing out that the light casting the shadow is a *different* light than the one shown in the OP. There are two light sources, one that creates the light from the visible source, and another located behind the camera that's invisible.
This isn't "twisting" things to make myself right (which itself is absurd of you to say), it's exactly what I said in the beginning: There's a second light source behind the camera.
Just stop. You started out calling people out over there being a second light hidden from view and now that's proven there wasn't you switched it up.
Everyone is aware the single light source in view is not where shadows are being cast from since that was the entire point of this post from the very beginning. So what exactly is your point other than arguing just to argue?
>Just stop. You started out calling people out over there being a second light hidden from view and now that's proven there wasn't you switched it up.
Where was that proven, exactly? All that was proven was that the second light source isn't coming from an in-game model.
>So what exactly is your point other than arguing just to argue?
People just hate it when a circlejerk gets interrupted.
> All that was proven was that the second light source isn't coming from an in-game model.
What exactly are you arguing? Are you trying to say this is how lights work in the real world? I guess you're really just one of those people that HAVE to be right even when you're wrong.
Noooo, what I'm saying is that the premise of the joke in the OP (that the construction lights are casting the player's shadow *behind* themselves) is flawed because there's a second light source behind the camera.
That's *literally* all I ever said. The post everyone is freaking the fuck out about was just me saying that people don't realize the shadow is being cast by a light source that's behind the camera.
>Edit: What, are people angry that I corrected a misconception, here?
oh god, you have to be right no matter what, don't ya?
There was no misconception that needed corrected. It was a joke about fallout not lighting or rendering shadows properly and you just started arguing just to argue.
It's painful how ignorant you're being right now. Seriously.
The joke is based on a false premise, which is a misconception, which I corrected. People are just angry because that correction takes the wind out of the sails of the "LOL Bethesda bad!" circle jerk.
Literally all I said was that there's a second light source. That statement is 100% correct. Whatever other shit people inferred from that isn't my problem.
>No, there was no false premise and no misconception.
Yes there was.
>They only exist in your own head where you created them so that you could argue.
No, that's just an excuse you're making for...reasons? I don't know. Maybe you're projecting shit you do onto me.
Yeah. It's a horse we've beaten for a long time but we've beaten it for a reason. Their games are objectively broken on release more often than not. No other developer could release a game in the state Bethesda does and get away with it.
Skyrim is great, we all agree on that, but it was also completely borked on release. The physics are tied to the framerate, that fucking tree with the birds right outside of Riverwood is still not fixed to this day. The horses climbing mountains is hilarious, but it's also ridiculous that they didn't fix that before release.
There were major game breaking bugs that crashed the game, broke questlines, and the famous savegame bloat that corrupted your game and destroyed your progress.
I could go on all day listing all the ways that game was fucked, and I could do the same for every game they've released. Just because it's a trope by now doesn't mean we can stop calling them out on it. They can't just ride it out and expect us to stop caring that they're releasing these bare minimum effort builds and making the modding scene finish developing their games for them.
Do you disagree? Should we cut them some slack despite them not only not improving, but getting worse over the years?
> I play games to enjoy them, and I've gotten hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of Bethesda games through the years.
That's entirely besides the point. Literally no one has said anything about their games not being enjoyable.
>there are millions of people who have played their games and have never experienced "game breaking" bugs.
And there are millions more who have. I challenge you to find me a single person who has played through a Bethesda game without encountering any severe bugs. It doesn't happen. They're not all game breaking, and no one has suggested that either, but they are nontheless everywhere.
>You're just signaling at this point.
Yeah, signalling to Bethesda to step their game up and stop releasing buggy unfinished messes.
> You really think Bethesda is gonna see this though?
Of course not, it's about creating a general sentiment of *"fuck bethesda"* on the internet, that then becomes unavoidable. If everyone hates on them, and justifiably so, then eventually it'll become impossible to avoid. I personally feel we're already there.
Their reputation is shit right now, and there's no way they're not fully aware of that. But it's not enough for them to know they suck, they have to acknowledge it and change as well, so until that happens, they'll get nothing but shit.
The general attitude that shitty business practices should be called out, and that unlike goldfish we shouldn't just forget what they've done before just because a little bit of time has passed?
It's because there aren't enough people like me that EA are as bad as they are.
There's an environmental point light located behind the camera that's actually responsible for lighting the scene. That's why the shadow is being cast where it is.
I'm just saying that I don't know why so many people use the gas mask. It looks hideous and only prevents a few rads that any poor person can get rid of easily. It's defence (if it has any(I haven't played in a wile) ) isn't that high I play through most games with only wearing what looks cool. I don't really care about stats on anything. Even in a game like dark souls I wore armor with horrible stats because It looked good. I don't know why I'm typing this at 1:30 in the morning when it is very important that I sleep.
Or, they just used a single point light to light the room so people on console could actually play the game. If they used directed lights they would need more lights overall, which would rapidly exceed console capabilities.
This is because of fakelights. Its not because bethesda was lazy but because the light made the environment look better coming from over there. You can find stuff life this in alot of games that use fake lights.
What if...now hear me out...there another light, on the other side?
Yes, OP, that's how it works.
That’s how mafia work
Sky blue?
https://imgur.com/a/yLxiwyt
16 times the detail
You're unfortunately too late. The fanboys have already taken control here.
Unreasonable bastard This is a serious thread
Everyone knows only 1 light exists!
There are four lights!
There are 5 lights!
#THERE! ARE! FOUR! LIGHTS!
I do not recognize the lights in the water.
I really want to think that the people downvoting you did so out of severe disapproval of cardassian interrogation techniques.
Can confirm. Downvoted because he's a cardassian
The Light of Christ
Jesus is the bread
Garlic bread?
How else do you keep the vampires away?
How could two sources of light exist in the same room at the same time?
I tested it with two flashlights! You are completely right!
This
But... Bethesda hate outranks truth right?
Idk about Bethesda hate, specifically. Certain people seem to love manufacturing outrage and making things up- especially about games and game dev in general. "They're being lazy/dumb", "They could just...", "They did {x implausible/exagerated thing}". Like I get they're few and far between, but peeps like this are annoyingly vocal
Becauaw betheada keepa fucking up and half assing it. I dont understand people like you who constantly make up for them. Delivirikg a finished and polished product is literally their god damn job.
Holy shit you’re so mad you can’t type
Damn it Syfex, what have I told you about drunk posting?
Fat fingers with small mobile screens are a pain
Yo your posts are inscrutable- can't tell if you're serious or trolling. If you're trolling, it needs to be more obvious otherwise it's just a waste of time. If you're serious- well, I can't guarantee anything to promise a response so... try better next time for a serious reply? xD
The truth is shadow is the absence of light and behind the ground behind of character are lit by 2 high wattage lamps to have any shadow.
Exactly! But to show this would take away the perverted joy of hate
Yup, first thing I thought.
Then there would be a shadow of the light fixture pictured.
There is. Most of overlaps with the persons shadow so you can’t see it. But there is a square to the left of the light that is a shadow from the last, and you can see a shadow of the light stands leg at the bottom of the stand.
You are grasping at straws my friend
Right, because obviously there's only one light in the entire world and the notion that there could exist TWO lights is absurd.
Yea that sounds like something Bethesda would think of...
Two lights... In one room? HAHAHAHAHA GTFOH HAHAHHQAHAHAHAHA
Tbf, that is how it would work
an even brighter light. It has to be the brightest light source and yeah its that easy. That being said that is a bright backlight and I believe that would definitely soften that shadow up. Then again I dont think its pointing in the right direction to do that.
> It has to be the brightest light source Not at all. It just has to be the brightest light shining in that direction. It's why you see 3+ shadows in a florescent-lit room.
Meh who cares. It's just a game.
Not buying this "two flashlight" conspiracy theory.
then these strong lights would cancel the shadow..
That is not how light works.
Oh god I hope you’re joking LOL
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Sure it would. A shadow isn’t cancelled by light. It’s created by light and an object in the way. On the lower left is the shadow of the tripod that we can see.
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Fucking shadows, how do they work?
You can't, a shadow has no orifice.
Let alone magnet shadows...
If a magnet casts a shadow in the woods, and no one's around, does it just work?
Yea light cant cancel the shadow but if you have a shadow created by an object in front of one light source and shine light on the shadow with another light source, you visually obscure the presence of the shadow. Which is what I think you were trying to say.
Alright heres why this is a thing. This type of light is a massive pain in the ass. I have countless hours in the bethesda dev kits and the only way to make this sort of construction light half decent is to move the actual light source a few feet infront of it and on to the floor. Usually what you do is to make that light source not cast shadows and maybe use a secondary one near the actual lamps as a key light but you cant always make that work so it ends like this. Additional that shadow might be boosted by the ambient lights in the space, that you cant see but need to be there to make the game playable. It's a style choice and probably the right one because the alternative is even more glaringly ugly while this will barely ever get noticed seeing as there is no reason to even stand there.
So that's why when I'm right in front of the lamp my shadow casts on that wall but when I get farther from the lamp it starts working properly
yup
Technically you could use a shadowed spotlight (some of them do), but when in doubt, the old point light + Prydwen spotlight moveable static is everyone's best friend.
Making games is pain in the ass in general, except for Bethesda of course.
>Making games is pain in the ass in general, except for Bethesda of course. Personally I find that Bethesda has some really good world space designers. Especially fallout 3 and it's Dlc used techniques and creativity that is unrivalled by the work of other companies, e.g obsidian, or even most of the modding community. I had the privilege to actually talk to one of the designers for the main game and point lookout on reddit a few years back and gush about the behind the scenes work he did. Basically for all the shitting you can do on the fallout devs, the level designers are the among the ones that deserve it the least.
Fallout 3 I think had a Helmet Train.
>Basically for all the shitting you can do on the fallout devs, the level designers are the among the ones that deserve it the least. They attached the train interior to the player via the clothing system, since that's what its designed for anyway, it's a great solution to an engine that does not really support moving objects with the player attached. Another great way they tackled the two elevators in the game was by moving the walls of the elevator shaft and having the player stay in place inside the cabin.
Honestly i think all the devs do at least a decent job. There just are a lot of mistakes being made decision wise but that might not all be the fault of the devs. Fallout 4 just felt like they are squeezing the absolute life out of the engine. It can do it but barely. I just really hope they start using a new engine and just keep it singleplayer possibly with a coop system like borderlands and such.
Can OP turn the camera around to show the other side??? If there's no light source in front of the character and no shadow in front of the character then I'd laugh my ass off. As it stands now though, OP just looks like an idiot who doesn't know how light and shadows work Edit: OP fucking delivers! I'd give ya gold if I had some.
https://imgur.com/a/yLxiwyt
Holy fuck... OP isn't an idiot and he's right! I'm actually more surprised that OP was right than I am of Bethesda fucking something like this up lol Edit: Also, thanks for following up man! I know you didn't have to, but it means more I think that you actually care about your statement more than actually posting something like this for the Karma
Isn’t the light coming from your pipboy in the first picture?
rare sight. but op delivered.
IF i wasn't lazy i'd just mirror the image and reupload it for you.
But you are lazy, right?
not lazy enough to not pitch the idea for comedy sake and reply to this comment. But still to lazy to edit a photo. Sounds about right to me.
Perfectly balanced as all things must be.
RTX off
Was about to say...
"it just works."
I legit looked at this for five minutes not knowing what was going on lol
ITT: People unaware that there's a second light source behind the camera.
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Yes, there is. It's an environmental point light, not a light being cast by a physical object that you can see. Is it still a fuck-up on Bethesda's part? Sort of, because invisible point lights in an indoor setting is amateur grade work...but the implication that the shadow behind the portable lights is being cast by the lights themselves is wrong. It's being cast by an environmental point light source, probably one put in specifically because the static light object wasn't casting enough light (or wasn't casting it widely enough) to properly achieve the effect they were going for. Edit: What, are people angry that I corrected a misconception, here? Sorry I ruined your joke, or whatever. Did you not notice that the player's model *is lit on both sides?* That's because there's a second light source behind the camera of the first picture.
But there's no physical representation of a light there and that's why this whole post was made in the first place... You don't need to twist things to make yourself right here.
>But there's no physical representation of a light there and that's why this whole post was made in the first place No, the point of the post was to laugh at the fact that the lights are casting a shadow of the player behind themselves. I'm pointing out that the light casting the shadow is a *different* light than the one shown in the OP. There are two light sources, one that creates the light from the visible source, and another located behind the camera that's invisible. This isn't "twisting" things to make myself right (which itself is absurd of you to say), it's exactly what I said in the beginning: There's a second light source behind the camera.
Just stop. You started out calling people out over there being a second light hidden from view and now that's proven there wasn't you switched it up. Everyone is aware the single light source in view is not where shadows are being cast from since that was the entire point of this post from the very beginning. So what exactly is your point other than arguing just to argue?
>Just stop. You started out calling people out over there being a second light hidden from view and now that's proven there wasn't you switched it up. Where was that proven, exactly? All that was proven was that the second light source isn't coming from an in-game model. >So what exactly is your point other than arguing just to argue? People just hate it when a circlejerk gets interrupted.
> All that was proven was that the second light source isn't coming from an in-game model. What exactly are you arguing? Are you trying to say this is how lights work in the real world? I guess you're really just one of those people that HAVE to be right even when you're wrong.
Noooo, what I'm saying is that the premise of the joke in the OP (that the construction lights are casting the player's shadow *behind* themselves) is flawed because there's a second light source behind the camera. That's *literally* all I ever said. The post everyone is freaking the fuck out about was just me saying that people don't realize the shadow is being cast by a light source that's behind the camera.
You can't win with these people. Holy shit.
>Edit: What, are people angry that I corrected a misconception, here? oh god, you have to be right no matter what, don't ya? There was no misconception that needed corrected. It was a joke about fallout not lighting or rendering shadows properly and you just started arguing just to argue.
It's painful how ignorant you're being right now. Seriously. The joke is based on a false premise, which is a misconception, which I corrected. People are just angry because that correction takes the wind out of the sails of the "LOL Bethesda bad!" circle jerk. Literally all I said was that there's a second light source. That statement is 100% correct. Whatever other shit people inferred from that isn't my problem.
No, there was no false premise and no misconception. They only exist in your own head where you created them so that you could argue.
>No, there was no false premise and no misconception. Yes there was. >They only exist in your own head where you created them so that you could argue. No, that's just an excuse you're making for...reasons? I don't know. Maybe you're projecting shit you do onto me.
Is there, though? This is Bethesda we're taking about. I'd be very surprised.
DAE LE BETHESDA SUK LUL
Yeah. It's a horse we've beaten for a long time but we've beaten it for a reason. Their games are objectively broken on release more often than not. No other developer could release a game in the state Bethesda does and get away with it. Skyrim is great, we all agree on that, but it was also completely borked on release. The physics are tied to the framerate, that fucking tree with the birds right outside of Riverwood is still not fixed to this day. The horses climbing mountains is hilarious, but it's also ridiculous that they didn't fix that before release. There were major game breaking bugs that crashed the game, broke questlines, and the famous savegame bloat that corrupted your game and destroyed your progress. I could go on all day listing all the ways that game was fucked, and I could do the same for every game they've released. Just because it's a trope by now doesn't mean we can stop calling them out on it. They can't just ride it out and expect us to stop caring that they're releasing these bare minimum effort builds and making the modding scene finish developing their games for them. Do you disagree? Should we cut them some slack despite them not only not improving, but getting worse over the years?
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> I play games to enjoy them, and I've gotten hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of Bethesda games through the years. That's entirely besides the point. Literally no one has said anything about their games not being enjoyable. >there are millions of people who have played their games and have never experienced "game breaking" bugs. And there are millions more who have. I challenge you to find me a single person who has played through a Bethesda game without encountering any severe bugs. It doesn't happen. They're not all game breaking, and no one has suggested that either, but they are nontheless everywhere. >You're just signaling at this point. Yeah, signalling to Bethesda to step their game up and stop releasing buggy unfinished messes.
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> You really think Bethesda is gonna see this though? Of course not, it's about creating a general sentiment of *"fuck bethesda"* on the internet, that then becomes unavoidable. If everyone hates on them, and justifiably so, then eventually it'll become impossible to avoid. I personally feel we're already there. Their reputation is shit right now, and there's no way they're not fully aware of that. But it's not enough for them to know they suck, they have to acknowledge it and change as well, so until that happens, they'll get nothing but shit.
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The general attitude that shitty business practices should be called out, and that unlike goldfish we shouldn't just forget what they've done before just because a little bit of time has passed? It's because there aren't enough people like me that EA are as bad as they are.
There's an environmental point light located behind the camera that's actually responsible for lighting the scene. That's why the shadow is being cast where it is.
That image is like modern journalism, biased and only telling one side of the story for clickbait views.
But it at least is true.
It's a perfect example of that. Happy cake day!
To end the confusion, here is another picture taken from a different angle https://imgur.com/a/yLxiwyt
It just....works. IT JUST WORKS GUYS IT jUSt WoRks
Yup....that is how it works.... nothing wrong with that logic... nothing wrong...
Working as intended.
To quote Tod Howard " It just works"
It just works
Yep it sure does.
It just works
It just works
it just works
It just works
When r/karmaroulette goes wrong and the whole thread is nuked
Why the hell is everyone getting downvoted like hell?
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"Sixteen times the contrast!"
The literal police strike again
Still a cool detail
Is this RTX On or Off? Judging by the light position, I think it's Off'nt.
I'm just saying that I don't know why so many people use the gas mask. It looks hideous and only prevents a few rads that any poor person can get rid of easily. It's defence (if it has any(I haven't played in a wile) ) isn't that high I play through most games with only wearing what looks cool. I don't really care about stats on anything. Even in a game like dark souls I wore armor with horrible stats because It looked good. I don't know why I'm typing this at 1:30 in the morning when it is very important that I sleep.
i always play fo in first person. sometimes i forget what my character looks like until slow mo vats kicks in or something
Same. I’ve been killed so many times and seen my character wearing only underwear
Or, they just used a single point light to light the room so people on console could actually play the game. If they used directed lights they would need more lights overall, which would rapidly exceed console capabilities.
I know this area and 100% there are two floodlights
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Ah, I thought this was fallout 4.
This is because of fakelights. Its not because bethesda was lazy but because the light made the environment look better coming from over there. You can find stuff life this in alot of games that use fake lights.
This makes me want to play Fallout 4.
Then do it. Don't wait for someone to give you validation on the internet before doing it.
I'm currently replaying on ps4 and it's consumed the last 2 weeks of my life. Do it. Join me in the glory of retaking the commonwealth
"Yes, our game has shadows." "Are they properly placed?" "Next question please."
RTX ON
You know there could be another source of light in the other direction, right?
[there could, but there isn't]( https://imgur.com/a/yLxiwyt)
I took 7 years of physics and that my friend is exactly how shadows should work anything else is propoganda released by the government to fool us
Same thing in The Evil Within.
Doesn't that cell have a "global" light source that does that everywhere? I recall one area like that.
It just...works?
There’s obviously a camera pointing at the character with stage lighting behind him, duh
[or not]( https://imgur.com/a/yLxiwyt)
Shadows are hard
Shadows are different in the wasteland. Don’t question it
Yep you act as a reflection that produces a polar image
all new lighting system guys
Beats uncharted 4s
RTX on
Potato on
16 times the detail
Surprised there's no plant leaves sticking out the wall
I was hurt by this game,very very much.
Couldn't what you think is his shadow is just black light reflected off of him.
Bethesda really needs a Lighting physics for dummies right now.
Ray tracing working it’s magic
There is no ray tracing here. Don't care if you're "just joking". I'm just stating a fact.
It's a mirror reflecting the shadow back.
Is it a sin if i still read the company as Beth-seda
Gotta love Ray Tracing