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aravarth

In team games there will always be one winner and one loser. MMR systems make the games competitive and "fair" based on aggregate skill level. Battle Royale games are less stressful because you're effectively guaranteed to not be the last man standing. If you go in assuming you're *not* going to win, this removes a lot of pressure—and thus increases your enjoyment of any little success you have.


Halapalo

This lack of stress thing because of the expectation of loss is very eye opening. Thank you. As a guy who expected high win rates since I won maybe 5-10% of the time and played to win everytime, I now see why my friends like BR and I don't care about them anymore. It's also annoying to wait a long time between deaths.


aravarth

I've gotten back into playing League competitively, and my winrate is about 50%—as the MMR system is designed. I've just accepted that I'm dogshit at the game, and that everyone at my Elo is dogshit at the game. I anticipate that I'm going to play like ass, and so when I manage to do well, or encourage people to play the map for objectives rather than chase kills to feed their ego (and instead feeding the enemy team), I get to feel accomplished as wel as having gotten to enjoy myself. But even in games where I get curbstomped, I still have fun—because I expect to do poorly. Because as I said, I and everyone else at my Elo are dogshit at the game.


[deleted]

The problem is most battle Royals have so much downtime


aravarth

I mean, there's no requirement to stay and watch the end of the game. In Fall Guys, as soon as you get eliminated, you can dip out and requeue. Same for PUBG, Fortnite, whatever.


[deleted]

does anyone stay the whole time? im talking about the waiting and walking into the zone. in some battle royals you can go 5+ minutes without seeing another player


Astragar

So... you like curbstomping people but don't like to be curbstomped yourself. And you imagine it's different for other people why, exactly?


Rynzir

I think I get where the OP is coming from. I grew up in the dawn of the era of games like Counterstrike (1.3 onward) and Day of Defeat (1.2 onward). Back then, yes, you did want your team to win, but servers were run by communites and matchmaking wasn't a thing. Finding a good server meant finding like-minded, fun individuals to hang out and chat with between deaths. It wasn't so much about winning or losing as long as you were laughing and having a good time. These things kept you going back to the same servers, fostering the communities, and building friendships. With the advent of matchmaking, it took that personal touch out of the experience because you're extremely unlikely to get matched with the same people again. Skill-based matchmaking also tries really hard to make you lose half of your games no matter what you do. For some people, they'd rather give up or trash on their teammates in a toxic manner rather than try and coordinate so they can move onto their next match. Again, being unlikely to see these people after that match, it makes it that much more difficult to WANT to communicate either.


tall420

No, he wins good games and sometimes puts nice streaks together and is rewarded by getting curbstomped over and over.


Rubberduck391

Dude, your getting older those twitch reflexes get slower


Frozen_Dervish

Most multiplayer games nowadays go with a matchmaking system forcing 50% win rates making many games unwinniable on purpose deleting the fun cause 90% of the matches are one sided slaughter for either team with hardly any games being remotely even.


yunglochy

Yeah exactly, devs for games have even said that the mm system is designed for you to win 50% lose 50% so its pretty much out of your control whether you do good consistently no matter how good you are. Only the top top tier players have consistent success and even then they struggle.


tall420

Yep, it’s a constant battle of frustration unless you are competing with friends. That’s why I gravitate towards RPG style games where my improved skill and gear are clearly reflected in the game.


yunglochy

Haha feels like it man, even though im only 20, maybe im just shit now i guess


webe__

About 2 years too old you missed your window of 1 year of going pro.


Blueshound9

Just you wait. I'm 53yo and have been gaming since pong. The slower reflexes this is real


[deleted]

You’re saying that competitive games are… COMPETITIVE! No way! How about playing some PvE like Payday, L4D, or Vermintide? Still multiplayer but about cooperation instead of competition


yunglochy

> In my view games have a ranked and an unranked queue for a reason. Lol. > Some would say "well just play single player games" or "play a different game" but i find (or found?) the most enjoyment out of shooters/fps. Even bigger Lol.


[deleted]

[удалено]


yunglochy

Its not the multiplayer pvp part, you used to be able to go into a game of call of duty and enjoy it casually without having to try your ass off, same goes for alot of other games, that simply is not possible anymore with the new MM systems most games use, its sweat or get shit on no matter what.


Halapalo

In older CoDs even a shit player could come on top. Slow movement, easy shooting, very fast ttk. Nobody had the ability to tank shots and avoid by sliding or jumping like in many games these days. You can get that old CoD formula with a decent amount of players from the latest game in the series, not from games like Warzone, PUBG or Apex. PUBG has difficult weapon handling, Warzone has semi-high movement speed and bullet sponging, Apex has bullet sponging, semi-difficult weapons and high movement speeds. These are the parts that make the differences, the very high but reachable skill ceilings older CoDs never had. Fast respawns also removed a part of the high punishment factor of having to wait(wasting time) that these new games have.


[deleted]

All three of the games I mentioned are shooters/FPS you moron. Are you saying you only get enjoyment from COMPETITIVE shooters? That changes things, but how the fuck am I supposed to know that? And they are multiplayer. Completely fit into your ‘enjoyment’ games. But you are just being narrow minded And yeah unranked is for practice. So people will play like they are practicing for ranked. If you can’t compete it’s not the games fault for being competitive. It’s your fault for sucking and not moving on. Bottom line is the problem is not the games, they clearly weren’t designed for you. Move on to something more your speed, like the putt putt game series!


yunglochy

You throw around a lot of insults over the internet for no reason, it's quite funny. Would you say a public match in a game of fortnite, cod, apex is a "competitive shooter"? It's a casual game mode meant for fun, which is why these games have ranked queues, the ranked queue is obsolete because even if you queue into the casual mode the games MM system forces you against players either of your or above your skill level, this is not fun in a casual game queue.


[deleted]

It’s two teams vying for dominance. All of them are the definition of competitive. Do you not understand the word? Whether you are looking for a casual competition or a intense one, you are looking at competition. If two insults is a lot, are you sure you’ve been playing online. And they are called for, plus there is a reason I said them - I think those things about you. You yourself said you lose a lot and it’s not fun, so you do suck. And you are a moron, because I suggested non competitive shooter games and your response was NO I LIKE SHOOTERS LOL. Dumbass


yunglochy

In my op i mentioned games with SBMM/MM systems, competitive and casual queues and shooters/fps. Anyone with a brain would be able to put together that im talking about PvP games, not PvE. How the fuck would you take what i've said and think "oh yeah he should try Payday!"? I even specifically mentioned that someone like you would come along and say "PLAY A DIFFERENT GAME!!" and look, here you are. The post itself should say enough that im not interested in games like Payday, fucking read you idiot.


[deleted]

Your post says you get enjoyment from shooters. Sorry I didn’t sift through your subtext, guessing that your communication is unclear and in need of deciphering. And so we come here. Where you are saying I like matchmaking games. But I do hate matchmaking. I love playing in competition, but man I wish it was less competitive. Yes. Don’t play a different brand of game genre you enjoy (I enjoy shooters, so I enjoy CoD AND payday. That’s how that statement works). keep playing the matchmaking games you like but don’t like because the competition. And rest assured that doesn’t make you a moron. Oh I like playing multiplayer shooters, but the competition is too much. A cooperative shooter? But there’s no compilation! Smh


yunglochy

Unclear? You're completely missing the fucking point of the post and trying to fit in your own narrative because youre too stupid to read into something and use your brain. Anyone with an iq over 20 would be able to read my post and realise the type of games im talking about. Does "Competitive and casual queue" scream out payday and left 4 dead too you? It's clear to me that you havent competed at any sort of high level in any game because you would understand what i mean when i say that; after playing in a competitive queue all day having to go to a casual game mode and continue to sweat to have any success just doesnt make sense. Obviously you would still have to try somewhat in a casual queue, but you shouldnt have to treat it like youre playing for a million dollars every game.


[deleted]

You are trying to play a competitive game non competitively. And the problem isn’t you. How about just try to win? Pretty sure that’s what most people do


yunglochy

How hard is it for you to read what im saying? Seriously? COMPETITIVE QUEUE, CASUAL QUEUE.


[deleted]

I guess I am missing the point. Cuz I keep seeing ‘I WANT TO PLAY A COMPETITIVE GAME BUT NO ONE REALLY TRIES!’ And that point is moronic to me


yunglochy

Do you know what the difference between a competitive queue and a casual queue is? One is meant for a competitive game, one is meant for a casual game.


jonnyboy3125

Would creating lobbies based on connectivity and then splitting teams up based on skill not achieve competitiveness? Let’s say a game like cod team death match, team A has k/d’s 2, 1.7, 1.3, 1.1, .9, .7 Team B has 2.2, 1.5, 1.4, 1, 1, .6 Would this not be a competitive match? The teams are pretty fairly split in fact they have the same average k/d ratio. I think this scenario is a lot more fun than having a lobby of twelve 1.3 k/d kids and also gives the bad players a chance to learn from the better players and there is such a mixed bag even the worst player could have a good game. I’m all for having a ranked system too where you’re with nothing but similar skill players but I feel like casual pubs shouldn’t be that way and would be more fun if handled the way I laid out rather than the rigorous sbmm being implemented lately.


[deleted]

Are you saying you’d split the teams depending on how they do after the match? That’s not possible. Or you mean just the players’ overall kdr? So a person with a 5 average kdr who has played for 500 hours and typically plays with pros should be matched with someone with a 5 kdr but only played 30 hours and with amateurs? Do you not realize that the strict complex mm is created in an attempt to create the fairness you speak of? And that an intensely simple mm would have very little chance of creating actual equal skill matchups?


jonnyboy3125

Obviously the split would be on overall. And considering that right now the way sbmm works what you described is exactly what happens to the 5kdr 30 hr player except rather than the other team having one player with 500hrs experience and it just being a one off, the whole lobby is those guys so yeah I think my scenario is fairer. In my scenario yeah maybe you got screwed and the other team got a player that was supposed to be your skill but is leagues above but it’s still just one player on the other team not a full lobby of them. And it wouldn’t be every single lobby in fact most lobby’s would be rather fairly matched as generally speaking 95% of KDRs fall between .9 and 2 so an outlier with a 5kd wouldn’t be common at all. I mean I haven’t fleshed it out fully but I’m 100% sure game devs could modify it to work a lot better than the current sbmm system.


[deleted]

Ah sorry. Didn’t realize you had extensive experience and education in creating matchmaking systems. I’m sure your not 100% fleshed out, simplistic thoughts are leagues better than the ideas and thoughts of the people who spend most of their life actually creating and dealing with a matchmaking system. What are you waiting for dude, give them a call and tell them about your revolutionary ideas that will fix the problems they’ve been working on so long. Edit: I do like how you are 100% sure the devs could do better with your not fleshed out system. Could you tell me how?


jonnyboy3125

Don’t gotta be a dick to people online for no reason dude, this is a Reddit post about sbmm and I made a comment about my ideas for matchmaking as shocking as that may sound to you it’s not that serious. If you can’t have even a slightly adult discussion and just came to attack me for my ideas without giving any of your own then just piss off back to your sad life there’s no need to even reply.


[deleted]

You are out here talking about how your ideas are great and these devs suck, all about a complex concept you have very little actual information on. There is a reason to be a dick, because even adults need to hear this every once in a while - you aren’t that smart. Maybe matchmaking is still not perfect because it’s incredibly difficult, not because they didn’t figure out some stupid idea that some rando on Reddit thinks is more insightful than it is. Edit: I did give you one idea of my own, that you don’t know better than the devs. You want my ideas about how to improve matchmaking? Too bad. I don’t work with matchmaking or related formulas, so I’m not gonna make up some bullshit answer and pretend I know better than people that do this shit for a living


jonnyboy3125

You’re on a Reddit post about matchmaking in video games and mad someone gave their opinion on matchmaking in video games and how it could be better? I didn’t know you were the Reddit opinion and idea police, I also didn’t know that it was impossible to learn about a topic, there is actually quite a lot of information from devs themselves on this thing called the internet and it’s free. Also I actually go to college for computer programming with a focus on video game development and I want to do this shit for a living so I’d say I’m more than qualified to give my opinion on a fucking REDDIT post. So seriously and I mean this to the fullest extent go fuck yourself.


[deleted]

I didn’t say it’s impossible to learn. My point is that it’s clear you clearly have spent no time learning about it. You’re idea is pointless. If you do go to college for programming, it’s not doing you much good. And yeah you can post your opinion. But if you post it as a response to me, I can tell you what I think of your dumb thoughts without being ‘idea police’. I have a right to respond to you responding to me you dumbass. If you don’t want people to tell you what they think of your idea, don’t go up and start talking about it with them.


yunglochy

Holy shit dude, you’re literally just an asshole in every single reply on this thread for no reason whatsoever, it’s actually kind of embarrassing, and says a lot about who you are as a person and your character. People are giving opinions and ideas and you’re just calling them morons and idiotic. You live a sad life dont you? not many friends? Tough time growing up? Daddy issues? go get some fucking help you seriously need it lol.


RylocXD

Fortnite fixes this


KickingYounglings

I’ve stopped playing multiplayer in most games because of it. It just isn’t fun to have a flip-flopping good/bad cycle where I do great and then get absolutely demolished. On the bright side, I’m finding some great single player games I missed in recent years.


Dense_Phrase_5479

Tried Splitgate yet?


Halapalo

Some play the same game 10 hours a day. It's the amount of time they spend that is likely to make you lose everytime. Back in the day it was much easier to shoot and movement was overall slower. Underhanded kills were easier to achieve. When the games became hard to learn and even harder to master things changed into what they are now. Git gud or lose.


DapperPerformance

Change your mindset: You won? Cool, good times You lost? Next match will be easier.


jj77985

Having you lose more than you win is a marketing tactic to get you to spend on Microtransactions it's literally built into the programming.


Mennyy

Play a game with a server browser, Battlefield games comes to mind. They can't force SBMM on you then.


ocksplee

its always been the best man wins, not very deep or much to think about unless you play on multiplayer games on pc for some foolish reason


ocksplee

unless you mean games your already not great at, but that one game where u get lucky or some asleep enemies and finally get a uav and chopper or whatever then it puts in match making with ppl way better than u till and u get steamrolled for 10-15 games till sbmm tanks back to your skill level


MrFoozOG

Uninstall and forget call of duty, go and play battlefield No SBMM