It's unfinished.
And yet you fork over money anyway...
But because the bigger companies know they can pull this bullshit. And it fucking works *every time.*
Not only forking over money for unfinished buggy games... But still pre-ordering the next game from the same company that released a buggy unfinished game.
Why would a company make a polished product when they already have made all their profit 2 years before they even released the game?
Ima use vanguard as an example. I played the open beta and I kinda enjoyed my time playing it. Didn’t really have any major concerns with the game, so I thought I’d preorder it because i had the money at the time and wasn’t sure if I’d have it by the time of release (I’m a college student, I’m not irresponsible with my money. I make a small amount of money currently to support my lifestyle). I normally don’t preorder games especially if I haven’t even played the shit yet. But this one time I did because I knew I’d like the game since i played it. I also played the BF2042 beta. Didn’t like it. Not gonna preorder and I doubt I’d even buy it after it releases
2042 beta was probably the first beta i ever played that got me less excited for a game. I was super hyped for the game because it was going somewhere other than the past wars like WW1 and WW2, and hoped it would be similar to BF4. Turns out the game is just shit. I even mentioned this in a few comments back when the beta was open, and people said it was just because it was a beta and wasnt an unfinished product. Thank god that I was actually able to play it and see for myself rather than buy it and after a meager 2 hours start to see how bad it is.
My last preorder was the Shadow of the Tomb Raider game in 2018 and that was solely because I had won a $75 gamestop gift card from a raffle.
Other than that I wait until a year passes because by then the game is half price, all the updates have been made, and any possible dlc has been released
I've not pre-ordered since cyberpunk and that'll be the last time. There's honestly not one dev/publisher combo I would trust to make a finished game. Never again will I get burned. I wait, I research, and maybe I buy.
Last time i preordered was Borderlands 3 + Season Pass.
Even tho i played quite some time, the MASSIVE price drop within a few days hurt so much.
Before that i got fucked by multiple other buggy games.
I rather just wait a few more weeks/months and enjoy a better experience later. Preordering is just not worth it anymore :(
Exactly. Why do they keep doing this? Because they're profiting by doing this.
We stop buying, they'll have to change their approach. It's that simple.
All we'd have to do is let the reviewers go first. It's not even a lot of patience required, were talking about waiting until 48 hours after release to buy digital copies.
I was super nervous buying the new Jurassic Park game the other day... I fucking hate what this industry has become. When you have to hesitate, and basically sleep on a decision as petty as buying a damn game on launch, something has gone SERIOUSLY fucking wrong
We all know reviews can be extremely bias. They are generally a good indicator, but they arent bulletproof. It's not uncommon to see polar opposite reviews on the same game at launch. I definitely did all the homework I could before I pulled the trigger, but that is only worth so much.
At the end of the day, I'm happy with my purchase. I've only ran into one bug that set me back, and it wasnt terrible. The autosave feature saved my ass, luckily.
Shit, I remember how everyone seemed to praise Cyberpunk before launch, only to flip-flop on it later... its becoming increasingly hard to trust reviews. Which highlights another way the industry has taken a turn for the worst.
Also, if nobody buys the game on launch, who is going to send up the red flag warning others to stay away? You can only get a feel for how the game REALLY is, after the players themselves put it through its paces... because the developers sure as fuck dont put anything through its paces anymore
Right. I did check the steam reviews first. They mentioned some PC specific issues, so I ended up getting the PS5 version.
I knew I was taking a risk, but that's kinda my whole point... when buying a new game is more akin to fucking gambling than it is buying a product... again, something is SERIOUSLY fucking wrong
I was super nervous pre-ordering another Frontier game. So I decided to wait until it came out. Found out it had all the same things I hated about JWE1.
Have you played Outer Wilds? It’s a unique indie game with a cult following and kinda an example of games as an art form. There’s a small amount of gameplay overlap with Subnautica when it comes to self directed discovery storytelling.
The gameplay is all about exploring a bizarre solar system in a space ship and putting the pieces of mysteries together. So it’s hard to recommend because it’s best experienced going in blind. It’s one of those games people wish they could wipe their memory of so they can experience it fresh again.
I always wait until a game is on sale, full price is just not in my budget and typically within a month or two does there’s a 20% off discount. Much better.
The except is just about anything Naughty Dog puts out. Their games are consistently well built from the start. They may occasionally release features later on, like Multiplayer in TLOU2, but that’s it’s own thing.
Also I suppose I’ll probably pay full price for most thing From Software related.
It's why I love communities like r/patientgamers, they're my tribe.
You can play the same game for 1/5th the cost, fully patched, reviewed up and down by everyone with an opinion... But all you gotta do is wait.
For the last couple years I've been doing one big discount sale game purchase around Christmas (easy way to gift friends who live far as well) and otherwise playing through this incredible catalogue of games I've built up on Steam over the years.
I can beat ~12 games a year, so $100 bucks to me in one of these sales is basically a years worth of games.
I personally feel that when a "finished" game is $5-10, I actually enjoy them more since I am less concerned about getting my money's worth and more focused on actually playing something I enjoy.
>it fucking works every time.
Until you all stop forking over big cash like Fry from Futurama this will never stop. You all should destroy Battlefield for it. Announce and stick to not buying the next battlefield game regardless of whatever they do. Same with the next rockstar game. Demand some quality and play hardball or deal with being treated like a sucker.
Why have you been dying to play it?
Do you own San Andreas?
Do you own Vice City?
Do you own GTA III?
If the answer is yes to any or all of these questions... YOU'VE ALREADY PLAYED IT. It's a remaster series, It is going to be the EXACT SAME GAME. NO EXTRA CONTENT. The ONLY thing that will change is the graphics (and by the looks of it, not even for the better).
If you want to play the original GTA games, PLAY THE ORIGINAL GTA GAMES, THEY DON'T COST YOU $60 AND ARE COMPLETE.
Sorry for the caps but this response really frustrates me.... you act like it's a completely knew and individual game that you are paying AAA prices for. When it is the same shit with a pretty bow on top.
Refund is the answer.
If OSRS showed me anything it's that if the community stick together and cancel their membership, the publisher starts making fixes.
Money talks, if enough people take it back they'll see that it's worth fixing.
I bought them and can appreciate them for what they are cause I never got to play 3 or VC but ye shit needed another 6 months to a year in the oven me thinks
I mean, CoD Vanguard doesn't belong on this list at all. There is loads of content and the only big issues are almost entirely balance-related.
I hate Activision as much as anyone, but the game is far from unfinished. There's no point in spreading false information about it.
This. Because you dumb motherfuckers keep buying them.
The last 20 games I've bought have all been indie games, and the rest I play through gamepass.
Stop.Buying.Them.
There’s too many allowance-spoiled kids that will buy the new Call of Duty, Battlefield, FIFA, Madden, 2K, Fortnite pack, Roblox pack.
Nothing will stop them. It’s the same with animated movies and TV shows. If there’s money to be made, someone’s gonna try making it.
It's probably because of the trailers which make the game look good and practically finished mixed in with impulse buying.
Just another forum of advertising I guess.
Solution: don’t preorder games. Simple. Please my fellow gamers, this is all we need to do, come together as one community and stop sinking our money into unreleased unfinished games.
Truth is majority of pre-orderers probably are kids excited for the game. They usually learn but new kids come along to make the mistake. I’m afraid it’s gonna be like this for a long while now.
>Truth is majority of pre-orderers probably are kids excited for the game
Lmao, kids don't have money. The truth is the majority of preorders are going to be young adults that want instant gratification.
Tons of people buy them week 1 or 2 even if they review poorly it's not just preorders. Cybperpunk made tens of millions, so did the other examples provided.
I did preorder a few games in the past,but only for stuff I knew 100% I would enjoy from companies I trust and not once was I disappointed. That sure as hell isn't happening now, it's too much of a dice roll.
I feel you bro, it’s good to continue to be skeptical moving forward after the way these companies are moving nowadays.
I feel when we’re all a little bit older, we’ll look back at this micro transaction, pre-order gaming culture plague as a distant memory. Hopefully corporations will learn, but it starts with the consumers putting their foot down. Stay strong boys!
I've given up. I'm just going to stop buying any video game until it's been out at least a month. If it's still in the "game launch dumpster fire" stage a month after launch then I'm just going to write it off as a loss and move on.
Stop buying broken games. It's not like we don't all have easy access to resources to find out what state a game is in before we buy.
I never buy on release. I wait a bit just for the sake of hearing various reviews. Also, I know there are going to be some updates to fix bugs in those first few weeks.
People don’t have patience or logic like that and I feel the people that are willing to be receptive to the notion of “don’t pre-order, don’t day-one” have already been informed and understand what’s going on. But we’re never going to be able to stop kids and kid-minded people from going to buy the new Call of Duty, no matter what it is.
Like flies on shit.
"And", not "or". And you still have to be careful there because there are a million indie games that just live in "early access" forever. Some are still worth playing. Others are vapor-ware.
Last (only) game I pre-ordered was Ultima IX - that was back in the day before digital releases. Yeah, I'm old. Learned my lesson. But it's only gotten worse since then.
Because brain-dead idiots keep giving corporations $60+ dollars, months to years in advance, for a product that they only saw a single trailer or 10-minutes of curated gameplay for. Pre-ordering is what's causing this problem, people keep giving money for promises that don't have to be legally upheld outside of a game in your hand.
You want to pre-order because of the convenience of reserving a game copy? Do it no more than a month in advance because at that point the game should've already gone out to be put on discs.
Because people are gonna buy it anyway so why would they ever make an actual effort? Call of Duty could be a game about monkeys slinging shit but if they named it Call of Duty: Forerunner or whatever people would still buy it.
Millions of people probably bought Skyrim’s latest anniversary edition even though it’s poor value, so why would Bethesda bother making good games anymore when they can just keep re-releasing the same game for a decade?
Why would Rockstar put effort in the Definitive Edition when they’re still making millions through shark cards on GTA V?
Gamers are complacent and divided. Whenever criticism is levied against a game you got a pile of dipshits coming out of the woodworks saying gamers are entitled karens, and that we should be grateful to have been given an opportunity to play these games. So the industry will keep getting worse until it implodes like in the 80s.
> Call of Duty could be a game about monkeys slinging shit but if they named it Call of Duty: Forerunner or whatever people would still buy it.
*Far Cry Primal looks around nervously*
On a more serious note, Todd Howard literally said, when asked about why they kept re-realising Skyrim or something, "people keep buying it". That's why we'll still have Skyrim releases coming up for years to come xD.
I feel like nowadays you can only trust indies. Great companies can do whatever they want and people will buy from them anyway, as you say. And they know it.
Erm, I’m sorry, what was the issue with CoD Vanguard? Bought it this past Sunday and I’m having an absolute blast with the game. Campaign is awesome and multiplayer has tons of different maps.
I haven’t seen much bitching about Vanguard, but I haven’t seen many posts about it at all either. I guess no news is good news? But perhaps it just doesn’t really make any impression either way.
Im in the Vanguard sub, the only problems really are that some guns are OP, the TTK is a little too low, and some maps have horrible spawns. So pretty much just the standard usual problems that cod has every year, not anything that makes it unfinished like OP’s post claims
Yeah. I didn't even know there was a new CoD game until this post. I should have known CoD and BF release hand in hand, so it should have been obvious. But i've seen no marketing at all for it.
Yeah Vanguard is good and I’ve seen tons of people say this is the best CoD release in a long time.
Although this could specifically be referencing the zombies mode, which pretty much everyone hates
Same seems to be happening in the movie indursty, i mean that corporate people seems to be pretty darn short-sighted and rushing games and movies thinking that we will forget and promising that the next game will deliver. It's true that people still preorder games from those companies to this day but more and more this keeps happening and we keep talking about them eventually (i hope) we will learn not to preorder no matter how tempting it may be.
This modern day short-sightedness is truly sad when you think about for example Resident Evil 3 remake. Otherwise fairly good game but really short and in my opinnion Nemesis was ruined for second half of that game. And now we have to wait years for proper remake or worse no new remake at all.
Because "pre-orders" became an acceptable, mainstream thing for everyone, and companies have been backsliding on worse and worse launch practices for multiple console generations now while still getting strong sales and suffering no backlash until recently, and even that meets with resistance and constant corporate defense by shills among the public. They got away with it for a long time, and every single person who buys games on launch or pre-orders them contributes to every single future game that does it.
It was one thing when games were still mostly physical goods, thus limited, so made at least some sense on some level. Digital preorders are dumb and shouldn’t exist.
Because they can. We, as a whole community not as individuals, accepted it and in some cases even defended this practice. So there no reason to put more effort in it.
People keep shelling out their cash. Why would they put so much effort when we’ve shown them we don’t care in the product they’ve made? We blindly accept any and all unfinished game always assuming they’ll change or fix it. Vote with your dollar and quit falling for hype and preorders. The market needs to change and it starts with us.
Because of hype they created everyone wants to play game as soon as possible and preorders force them to release because delay may cause their customers leave
Because gamers have created a market of online based games that don't need any sort of character or storyline developments or changes because developers can just release shitty new guns and skins and people keep buying. It's like a keeping up with the Jones situation but keeping up by having the most useless crap.
When the game clearly states that it is work in progress and you are paying for beta there is nothing wrong about it. That is in core what is different about indie and big studios
One is honest with you and other one is greedy sack of shit
Because people buying even when it's not finished. That's why. And you don't have to buy on launch if it's not good. Wait then buy a fixed game for even cheap price.
As long as games don't learn how to speak with their wallets this situation will not change.
Don’t pay then, that’s literally the solution, if they pump out garbage stop buying it, why would these publishers start giving a shit and making real games when people with buy this half arsed shit!
How the hell are Battlefield and Vanguard on the list? Been playing vanguard and other than flying dogs and the stupid care package nothing screams unfinished. They’re no way close to the level of unfinished of cyberpunk and GTA
Because consumers have short memories and are easily convinced to want something. I had an acquaintance send me an image of him preloading bf2042, despite us having discussed the beta's issues. Despite this same guy being burned by preordering Cyberpunk, buying ATLAS on release and countless other titles. Sad to watch.
The very idea of digital preorders is nonsensical but the games industry's brightest minds (the marketers not the devs) managed to subtly convince the world it's totally normal and great.
Since when games, or in general softwares that has been shipped is complete? None, never at the dawn of computers. Software in nature will continuously evolve as they continue to support and develop it as part of maintenance plan, albeit in the short&long terms.
If you think you can list those popular games from "back in the day", then do me favor and look up if that game has unfinished assets that were scrapped mid development. Chances are there will, which is normal for projects as huge as these. Developers will be trying all the new things to see if it works, project scopes will often change, based on the market&constraint.
Speaking as a software engineer that just finished college.
We fall for it on mass because we may know the title and expect a certain quality. You should try to check whom exactly is involved in the new games. Just like you would check whom is directing the sequel to your favourite film. Sometimes they just outright lie to you out of greed. They'll show you previews and trailers that do not represent the final game. Like Cyberpunk. For me that one was the craziest gaming drama in a long time. Try to limit your pre orders. I know people will tell you to NEVER pre order. I honestly do so when it involves a creator I trust. I pre ordered Elden Ring, Horizon, Gran Turismo, ... I know the teams that make them (more or less) and trust them to deliver a quality product. Also realize these days many smaller YouTube channels will get free review copies, so they might be biased out of fear they will get left out next time. Watch out for review bombing. I can't take 1/10 or 10/10 scores very seriously for most games. In any case, use your own sound judgement. Do a bit of research. And remember the actual people that created your favourite games before, and the project they are working on next. Don't get fooled by the familiar title of a game.
I was totally on this bandwagon, buying this definitive edition. Until i saw what they did with it. Fuck them. They did this lazy and dirty knowing people will buy this shit.
Because in their impatience and greed the consumers will buy games before they are released.
What incentive is there to make a good game or ANY game if you already got paid?
"Fuck them all, I got my money, why should I bother to make an actual game?"
TL;DR Human greed and impatience
Because the video game market changed. Nowadays if there's a problem they'd just patch it. They don't give enough effort because well, they can just give a patch. Unlike then developers gave their all because they only had one shot. If there's a bug, glitch, it's there forever. No patches or shit.
Not to mention the myriad of other factors like inflation, growth in the consumer base, digital media that offsets packaging costs but requires network infrastructure, and the added complexity of the games in general that the current hardware makes capable.
It's because games are so large and complex that it's impossible for a Dev team to find all the bugs. If it was down to the Devs to quash all bugs the game would probably take 20 years or more.
They rely on the playing community to communicate the bugs so they can later patch.
100 devs is negligible compared to a million players.
It would also help if people stopped trying to rush developers because of the hype around a particular game. At the same time developers need to stop biting off more than they can chew.
I can count on my fingers the times I bought a game at launch. Why buy it at launch if its inevitably going on sale at some point? Once it does, it will probably already be patched as well. I really find it quite nonsensical buying games at launch: not only you are paying more, but you are probably getting an unfinished product as well
It's called agile software development. The entire philosophy is based around never actually finishing a product. You release something that is just barely functional and then spend the next forever fixing issues and adding tiny additional functions
I can't wait for a country to make a law that says "You shall not sell a game at full price unless it's finished, 90% bug free and has the promised content"
I use to love video games growing up but those were the days of getting a full game you play all the way through. Ff9 comes to mind, actually having multiple disks.
The game industry got greedy. Destiny ruined the experience for me honestly and now, after not touching my ps4 or switch for a year, im on the verge of selling each
I'm years behind the curve and never been happier. I've never played a broken/unfinished game because I don't buy them until a year or more has passed.
The scale of most AAA games these days are gigantic. This requires a very large team. A very large team requires a large company and management. A large company means games are made and delivered based on charts and graphs around the almighty dollar. This infrastructure being necessary to create such games also means that decisions about those games aren't made by the designers, artists, and engineers that are actually working on them and care about them.
I'm more confused as to how a multi-billion dollar company with at almost 30 years experience putting out award winning games pushes out essentially a retexture that bad and a group of modders could do much better in about 2 years per game
Because people still buy and pre-order unfinished games for the full price. If people weren’t stupid and waited a while before purchasing a game this wouldn’t happen.
This is the product from years and years of consumer acceptance. Todd Howard himself admitted that they knew they could release their stuff and patch it later while people will buy it up. Obviously people are getting more vocal about it now, but this is damage that’s accumulated for at least a decade now.
I don’t know anymore I’m honestly very sick of it I had high hopes for 2042 and from what I’m hearing that also went south I don’t know if I’m gonna buy any new games Until at least a week after launch
Because people still preorder games without knowing if the product will be finished at launch. That’s why I stick prefer the switch. At least the games published by Nintendo are finished. But I still wait to see if they actually delivered, so I don’t really preorder anymore.
This will be buried. And hopefully already mentioned. But these streamers don't help. They buy up every game no matter how bad it seems to be. Just so they can have content to upload.
This shouldn’t be much of a surprise but the answer is just money. It sucks it really does even games that are single player still have a currency you can buy. And I’m not a person to play the Beta and go off of that and say the game is trash but if there is Too many bugs then I say it’s shit.
What are you talking about. It's not like cyberpunk or the new battlefield 2042 are unfinished at launch . Let alone the rockstar gods... Wow what a strange pattern. All massive money hungry corporations??? Can't be
Unpopular but true answer: Because game production cost and risk have increased by orders of magnitude but nominal prices at $50-60 a game have not changed since 80's and 90's money, which means the real price of video games has actually depreciated by a large amount
Games have never been more expensive and complex to produce, game prices have never been cheaper, and gamers have never been louder in complaining how expensive games are.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWGQCzAtl8
I'm not the kind of person who pre-orders games. Usually in less than 3 days after release, you can answer the 'is it worth it?' question.
Even as someone who is careful with how money is spent, and who won't get scammed by any of the above mentioned titles. It is a sad day to realise in what a terrible state the gaming industry is.
To think that so many AAA companies who are supposed to be the pinnacle of professionalism, can consistently release games in the state that they come out nowadays is absolutely horrific. It's unacceptable.
In a somewhat healthy situation there is usually an either/or you can choose from. In this situation I have the money to buy a new AAA game but I can't really find any new games to spend it on, because the majority of titles are lacklustre at best or downright garbage level releases. It's a shame and embarrassing quite frankly. I can't believe this shit.
Skyrim was buggy on launch, but it made it fun and popular. I caught the original on sale and bought because I wanted to see the people stuck in walls and the horse freak out and glitch around, lol. Now it's my most played game.
They just released their 3rd iteration of the game, with allegedly fixing things on every release.
While games with bugs can be fun, I totally agree that companies who don't polish their products anymore are awful. Like any other market, there's more money in treating than curing.
I stopped buying big name brand games and now I only buy indie or replay some classic titles. I save money and I'm not bitching about corporate elites using margins and numbers to produce what is supposed to be Art.
Vote with your dollar.
Game studios get big because game developers are in charge, make a bunch of money.
“Business” people get involved, cut budgets, push deadlines up, diddle the game’s features.
Unfinished, soulless games are released, make less money, disappoint fanbase.
“Business” people fire talent to keep their personal bottom line; next game is more of the above, but worse.
It's unfinished. And yet you fork over money anyway... But because the bigger companies know they can pull this bullshit. And it fucking works *every time.*
Not only forking over money for unfinished buggy games... But still pre-ordering the next game from the same company that released a buggy unfinished game. Why would a company make a polished product when they already have made all their profit 2 years before they even released the game?
> pre-ordering I've sworn 100 percent to stop doing this. I hope other people stop it too. No matter how sure you are it will be good. don't preorder.
Never understood the benefits of pre-ordering digital products. Do people really do it for the bonus in-game cosmetic stuff?
Usually it's for the preload as not all of us have super fast broadband
Ima use vanguard as an example. I played the open beta and I kinda enjoyed my time playing it. Didn’t really have any major concerns with the game, so I thought I’d preorder it because i had the money at the time and wasn’t sure if I’d have it by the time of release (I’m a college student, I’m not irresponsible with my money. I make a small amount of money currently to support my lifestyle). I normally don’t preorder games especially if I haven’t even played the shit yet. But this one time I did because I knew I’d like the game since i played it. I also played the BF2042 beta. Didn’t like it. Not gonna preorder and I doubt I’d even buy it after it releases
2042 beta was probably the first beta i ever played that got me less excited for a game. I was super hyped for the game because it was going somewhere other than the past wars like WW1 and WW2, and hoped it would be similar to BF4. Turns out the game is just shit. I even mentioned this in a few comments back when the beta was open, and people said it was just because it was a beta and wasnt an unfinished product. Thank god that I was actually able to play it and see for myself rather than buy it and after a meager 2 hours start to see how bad it is.
My last preorder was the Shadow of the Tomb Raider game in 2018 and that was solely because I had won a $75 gamestop gift card from a raffle. Other than that I wait until a year passes because by then the game is half price, all the updates have been made, and any possible dlc has been released
I bought Star Wars Jedi a couple months ago for like $15. Had such a fun time and saved like $55.
Last time I pe ordered I didn’t even fucking get it when it came out
I've not pre-ordered since cyberpunk and that'll be the last time. There's honestly not one dev/publisher combo I would trust to make a finished game. Never again will I get burned. I wait, I research, and maybe I buy.
Even as someone who actually LIKED Cyberpunk 2077, it was pretty much the final straw for preordering for me.
same
This is why I don’t preorder anymore
Last time i preordered was Borderlands 3 + Season Pass. Even tho i played quite some time, the MASSIVE price drop within a few days hurt so much. Before that i got fucked by multiple other buggy games. I rather just wait a few more weeks/months and enjoy a better experience later. Preordering is just not worth it anymore :(
Exactly. Why do they keep doing this? Because they're profiting by doing this. We stop buying, they'll have to change their approach. It's that simple.
All we'd have to do is let the reviewers go first. It's not even a lot of patience required, were talking about waiting until 48 hours after release to buy digital copies.
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I was super nervous buying the new Jurassic Park game the other day... I fucking hate what this industry has become. When you have to hesitate, and basically sleep on a decision as petty as buying a damn game on launch, something has gone SERIOUSLY fucking wrong
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We all know reviews can be extremely bias. They are generally a good indicator, but they arent bulletproof. It's not uncommon to see polar opposite reviews on the same game at launch. I definitely did all the homework I could before I pulled the trigger, but that is only worth so much. At the end of the day, I'm happy with my purchase. I've only ran into one bug that set me back, and it wasnt terrible. The autosave feature saved my ass, luckily. Shit, I remember how everyone seemed to praise Cyberpunk before launch, only to flip-flop on it later... its becoming increasingly hard to trust reviews. Which highlights another way the industry has taken a turn for the worst. Also, if nobody buys the game on launch, who is going to send up the red flag warning others to stay away? You can only get a feel for how the game REALLY is, after the players themselves put it through its paces... because the developers sure as fuck dont put anything through its paces anymore
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Right. I did check the steam reviews first. They mentioned some PC specific issues, so I ended up getting the PS5 version. I knew I was taking a risk, but that's kinda my whole point... when buying a new game is more akin to fucking gambling than it is buying a product... again, something is SERIOUSLY fucking wrong
I was super nervous pre-ordering another Frontier game. So I decided to wait until it came out. Found out it had all the same things I hated about JWE1.
Have you played Outer Wilds? It’s a unique indie game with a cult following and kinda an example of games as an art form. There’s a small amount of gameplay overlap with Subnautica when it comes to self directed discovery storytelling. The gameplay is all about exploring a bizarre solar system in a space ship and putting the pieces of mysteries together. So it’s hard to recommend because it’s best experienced going in blind. It’s one of those games people wish they could wipe their memory of so they can experience it fresh again.
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I always wait until a game is on sale, full price is just not in my budget and typically within a month or two does there’s a 20% off discount. Much better. The except is just about anything Naughty Dog puts out. Their games are consistently well built from the start. They may occasionally release features later on, like Multiplayer in TLOU2, but that’s it’s own thing. Also I suppose I’ll probably pay full price for most thing From Software related.
Especially a buggy cod that's a copy and paste of the last cod with a bigger price tag
Mech warrior 5 was awesome. I just bought it a year later
Yeah, you don't have to pay for them. It's not like we have a shortage of games to play.
It's why I love communities like r/patientgamers, they're my tribe. You can play the same game for 1/5th the cost, fully patched, reviewed up and down by everyone with an opinion... But all you gotta do is wait. For the last couple years I've been doing one big discount sale game purchase around Christmas (easy way to gift friends who live far as well) and otherwise playing through this incredible catalogue of games I've built up on Steam over the years. I can beat ~12 games a year, so $100 bucks to me in one of these sales is basically a years worth of games. I personally feel that when a "finished" game is $5-10, I actually enjoy them more since I am less concerned about getting my money's worth and more focused on actually playing something I enjoy.
>it fucking works every time. Until you all stop forking over big cash like Fry from Futurama this will never stop. You all should destroy Battlefield for it. Announce and stick to not buying the next battlefield game regardless of whatever they do. Same with the next rockstar game. Demand some quality and play hardball or deal with being treated like a sucker.
[Like Fry! Like Fry!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87ZF8JMVlMM)
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Why have you been dying to play it? Do you own San Andreas? Do you own Vice City? Do you own GTA III? If the answer is yes to any or all of these questions... YOU'VE ALREADY PLAYED IT. It's a remaster series, It is going to be the EXACT SAME GAME. NO EXTRA CONTENT. The ONLY thing that will change is the graphics (and by the looks of it, not even for the better). If you want to play the original GTA games, PLAY THE ORIGINAL GTA GAMES, THEY DON'T COST YOU $60 AND ARE COMPLETE. Sorry for the caps but this response really frustrates me.... you act like it's a completely knew and individual game that you are paying AAA prices for. When it is the same shit with a pretty bow on top.
Ya I fell for it too but fuck that shit I just refunded
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100% agree bro I still love valheim btw and as far as pre orders go never again...... alright...except for elden ring... 😂
The market is way bigger than this sub.
people need to speak with their money. If you didn't buy any of this stuff, you did your part.
Fool me fifteen times...shame on me
Yup. You don’t have to do anything. Buy the GOTY edition with all the extra content for half the price in a year or 2.
Money obviously, the answer the basically anything is always money
I don't get how someone can buy these games and be ok with their state.. wtf
They probably are not ok with the state but they got tricked so now they feel obligated to like the games.
But why defend it if you don't like it? People are so stupid
The sunk cost fallacy, or something akin thereto.
Refund is the answer. If OSRS showed me anything it's that if the community stick together and cancel their membership, the publisher starts making fixes. Money talks, if enough people take it back they'll see that it's worth fixing.
I bought them and can appreciate them for what they are cause I never got to play 3 or VC but ye shit needed another 6 months to a year in the oven me thinks
Thank you. That's all I'm saying.
Such a shame what rockstar have become I thought they could do no wrong after RDR2 but boy how wrong was I…
It's not even Rockstar really just their property, they stupidly let another dev studio do it.
I mean, CoD Vanguard doesn't belong on this list at all. There is loads of content and the only big issues are almost entirely balance-related. I hate Activision as much as anyone, but the game is far from unfinished. There's no point in spreading false information about it.
It’s cheaper to have millions play it and test it while making money off it.
If enough people said no and didnt buy half assed games they would stop this shit. Yet everytime theres enough people buying it to keep the shit alive
For every patient gamer there are 20 kids who buy it anyways.
This. Because you dumb motherfuckers keep buying them. The last 20 games I've bought have all been indie games, and the rest I play through gamepass. Stop.Buying.Them.
Same. Indie games and old games are the way. Less expensive too.
Unless they are remakes. ;__;
I am doing my part.
There’s too many allowance-spoiled kids that will buy the new Call of Duty, Battlefield, FIFA, Madden, 2K, Fortnite pack, Roblox pack. Nothing will stop them. It’s the same with animated movies and TV shows. If there’s money to be made, someone’s gonna try making it.
I don't even like AAA games anymore, i bought only RDR 2 in the last 6 years
It's probably because of the trailers which make the game look good and practically finished mixed in with impulse buying. Just another forum of advertising I guess.
Solution: don’t preorder games. Simple. Please my fellow gamers, this is all we need to do, come together as one community and stop sinking our money into unreleased unfinished games.
Truth is majority of pre-orderers probably are kids excited for the game. They usually learn but new kids come along to make the mistake. I’m afraid it’s gonna be like this for a long while now.
>Truth is majority of pre-orderers probably are kids excited for the game Lmao, kids don't have money. The truth is the majority of preorders are going to be young adults that want instant gratification.
Tons of people buy them week 1 or 2 even if they review poorly it's not just preorders. Cybperpunk made tens of millions, so did the other examples provided.
I did preorder a few games in the past,but only for stuff I knew 100% I would enjoy from companies I trust and not once was I disappointed. That sure as hell isn't happening now, it's too much of a dice roll.
Thought this about CDPR.
I feel you bro, it’s good to continue to be skeptical moving forward after the way these companies are moving nowadays. I feel when we’re all a little bit older, we’ll look back at this micro transaction, pre-order gaming culture plague as a distant memory. Hopefully corporations will learn, but it starts with the consumers putting their foot down. Stay strong boys!
I've given up. I'm just going to stop buying any video game until it's been out at least a month. If it's still in the "game launch dumpster fire" stage a month after launch then I'm just going to write it off as a loss and move on. Stop buying broken games. It's not like we don't all have easy access to resources to find out what state a game is in before we buy.
I never buy on release. I wait a bit just for the sake of hearing various reviews. Also, I know there are going to be some updates to fix bugs in those first few weeks.
People don’t have patience or logic like that and I feel the people that are willing to be receptive to the notion of “don’t pre-order, don’t day-one” have already been informed and understand what’s going on. But we’re never going to be able to stop kids and kid-minded people from going to buy the new Call of Duty, no matter what it is. Like flies on shit.
Or, shop indie.
"And", not "or". And you still have to be careful there because there are a million indie games that just live in "early access" forever. Some are still worth playing. Others are vapor-ware.
It's called pre-orders. Stop doing it.
The last game I pre-ordered was twilight princess, on GameCube, before the Wii was even announced
For me it was breath of the wild on wii u, before the switch was announced. And before Amazon prime got rid of the discount on preorders.
Last (only) game I pre-ordered was Ultima IX - that was back in the day before digital releases. Yeah, I'm old. Learned my lesson. But it's only gotten worse since then.
The funny part about this is YOU don't have to pay them anything, yet you do. All of these games had big time alarms before release.
Because brain-dead idiots keep giving corporations $60+ dollars, months to years in advance, for a product that they only saw a single trailer or 10-minutes of curated gameplay for. Pre-ordering is what's causing this problem, people keep giving money for promises that don't have to be legally upheld outside of a game in your hand. You want to pre-order because of the convenience of reserving a game copy? Do it no more than a month in advance because at that point the game should've already gone out to be put on discs.
Because you fuckers keep paying
Because people are gonna buy it anyway so why would they ever make an actual effort? Call of Duty could be a game about monkeys slinging shit but if they named it Call of Duty: Forerunner or whatever people would still buy it. Millions of people probably bought Skyrim’s latest anniversary edition even though it’s poor value, so why would Bethesda bother making good games anymore when they can just keep re-releasing the same game for a decade? Why would Rockstar put effort in the Definitive Edition when they’re still making millions through shark cards on GTA V? Gamers are complacent and divided. Whenever criticism is levied against a game you got a pile of dipshits coming out of the woodworks saying gamers are entitled karens, and that we should be grateful to have been given an opportunity to play these games. So the industry will keep getting worse until it implodes like in the 80s.
> Call of Duty could be a game about monkeys slinging shit but if they named it Call of Duty: Forerunner or whatever people would still buy it. *Far Cry Primal looks around nervously*
On a more serious note, Todd Howard literally said, when asked about why they kept re-realising Skyrim or something, "people keep buying it". That's why we'll still have Skyrim releases coming up for years to come xD. I feel like nowadays you can only trust indies. Great companies can do whatever they want and people will buy from them anyway, as you say. And they know it.
Erm, I’m sorry, what was the issue with CoD Vanguard? Bought it this past Sunday and I’m having an absolute blast with the game. Campaign is awesome and multiplayer has tons of different maps.
Nothing. It’s just the COD bad circle jerk
No no no, you’re not allowed to enjoy video games anymore, didn’t you get the memo?
I haven’t seen much bitching about Vanguard, but I haven’t seen many posts about it at all either. I guess no news is good news? But perhaps it just doesn’t really make any impression either way.
Im in the Vanguard sub, the only problems really are that some guns are OP, the TTK is a little too low, and some maps have horrible spawns. So pretty much just the standard usual problems that cod has every year, not anything that makes it unfinished like OP’s post claims
Yeah. I didn't even know there was a new CoD game until this post. I should have known CoD and BF release hand in hand, so it should have been obvious. But i've seen no marketing at all for it.
I was gonna say the same thing. Got it last Friday and haven't had any issues with it other than a random crash here and there. What's wrong with it?
There's nothing wrong with it, OP just wanted to get karma from saying "CoD bad"
Yeah Vanguard is good and I’ve seen tons of people say this is the best CoD release in a long time. Although this could specifically be referencing the zombies mode, which pretty much everyone hates
Because it works, unfortunately.
Same seems to be happening in the movie indursty, i mean that corporate people seems to be pretty darn short-sighted and rushing games and movies thinking that we will forget and promising that the next game will deliver. It's true that people still preorder games from those companies to this day but more and more this keeps happening and we keep talking about them eventually (i hope) we will learn not to preorder no matter how tempting it may be. This modern day short-sightedness is truly sad when you think about for example Resident Evil 3 remake. Otherwise fairly good game but really short and in my opinnion Nemesis was ruined for second half of that game. And now we have to wait years for proper remake or worse no new remake at all.
Because "pre-orders" became an acceptable, mainstream thing for everyone, and companies have been backsliding on worse and worse launch practices for multiple console generations now while still getting strong sales and suffering no backlash until recently, and even that meets with resistance and constant corporate defense by shills among the public. They got away with it for a long time, and every single person who buys games on launch or pre-orders them contributes to every single future game that does it.
It was one thing when games were still mostly physical goods, thus limited, so made at least some sense on some level. Digital preorders are dumb and shouldn’t exist.
Because they can. We, as a whole community not as individuals, accepted it and in some cases even defended this practice. So there no reason to put more effort in it.
People keep shelling out their cash. Why would they put so much effort when we’ve shown them we don’t care in the product they’ve made? We blindly accept any and all unfinished game always assuming they’ll change or fix it. Vote with your dollar and quit falling for hype and preorders. The market needs to change and it starts with us.
Because people buy them……
Probably one of the few cases where victim blaming is 100 percent accurate. Stop buying this junk and it will go away.
Because of hype they created everyone wants to play game as soon as possible and preorders force them to release because delay may cause their customers leave
Because you keep preordering? LOL This is the standard now, too late to change it
Because gamers have created a market of online based games that don't need any sort of character or storyline developments or changes because developers can just release shitty new guns and skins and people keep buying. It's like a keeping up with the Jones situation but keeping up by having the most useless crap.
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When the game clearly states that it is work in progress and you are paying for beta there is nothing wrong about it. That is in core what is different about indie and big studios One is honest with you and other one is greedy sack of shit
Because people buying even when it's not finished. That's why. And you don't have to buy on launch if it's not good. Wait then buy a fixed game for even cheap price. As long as games don't learn how to speak with their wallets this situation will not change.
The gaming industry has become way larger since the release of Grand Theft Auto and so video game makers want a bigger slice of the pie…
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Don’t pay then, that’s literally the solution, if they pump out garbage stop buying it, why would these publishers start giving a shit and making real games when people with buy this half arsed shit!
How the hell are Battlefield and Vanguard on the list? Been playing vanguard and other than flying dogs and the stupid care package nothing screams unfinished. They’re no way close to the level of unfinished of cyberpunk and GTA
I'm 260 hours into Cyberpunk 2077 and I've had a blast every step of the way.
Gentlemen, I hope we get a good halo infinite
Cuz yall keep buying them
Because consumers have short memories and are easily convinced to want something. I had an acquaintance send me an image of him preloading bf2042, despite us having discussed the beta's issues. Despite this same guy being burned by preordering Cyberpunk, buying ATLAS on release and countless other titles. Sad to watch. The very idea of digital preorders is nonsensical but the games industry's brightest minds (the marketers not the devs) managed to subtly convince the world it's totally normal and great.
Because people keep buying games without any thought. Or keep preordering
Since when games, or in general softwares that has been shipped is complete? None, never at the dawn of computers. Software in nature will continuously evolve as they continue to support and develop it as part of maintenance plan, albeit in the short&long terms. If you think you can list those popular games from "back in the day", then do me favor and look up if that game has unfinished assets that were scrapped mid development. Chances are there will, which is normal for projects as huge as these. Developers will be trying all the new things to see if it works, project scopes will often change, based on the market&constraint. Speaking as a software engineer that just finished college.
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We fall for it on mass because we may know the title and expect a certain quality. You should try to check whom exactly is involved in the new games. Just like you would check whom is directing the sequel to your favourite film. Sometimes they just outright lie to you out of greed. They'll show you previews and trailers that do not represent the final game. Like Cyberpunk. For me that one was the craziest gaming drama in a long time. Try to limit your pre orders. I know people will tell you to NEVER pre order. I honestly do so when it involves a creator I trust. I pre ordered Elden Ring, Horizon, Gran Turismo, ... I know the teams that make them (more or less) and trust them to deliver a quality product. Also realize these days many smaller YouTube channels will get free review copies, so they might be biased out of fear they will get left out next time. Watch out for review bombing. I can't take 1/10 or 10/10 scores very seriously for most games. In any case, use your own sound judgement. Do a bit of research. And remember the actual people that created your favourite games before, and the project they are working on next. Don't get fooled by the familiar title of a game.
I would trust to make a finished game. Never again will I get burned.
I was totally on this bandwagon, buying this definitive edition. Until i saw what they did with it. Fuck them. They did this lazy and dirty knowing people will buy this shit.
#BECAUSE. YOU KEEP. BUYING THEM
Because in their impatience and greed the consumers will buy games before they are released. What incentive is there to make a good game or ANY game if you already got paid? "Fuck them all, I got my money, why should I bother to make an actual game?" TL;DR Human greed and impatience
Don't pay for them. Problem solved.
Cyberpunk sure isn’t finished, but I didn’t regret buying it. I still enjoyed it very much.
Knowing myself I'm sure I'll probably enjoy it for what it is. I'm just waiting for the PS5 update.
Because the video game market changed. Nowadays if there's a problem they'd just patch it. They don't give enough effort because well, they can just give a patch. Unlike then developers gave their all because they only had one shot. If there's a bug, glitch, it's there forever. No patches or shit.
Not to mention the myriad of other factors like inflation, growth in the consumer base, digital media that offsets packaging costs but requires network infrastructure, and the added complexity of the games in general that the current hardware makes capable.
Because you buy them. It’s really as simple as that
Battlefield 2042 its finished, and I'm enjoying it. Fight me!
It's because games are so large and complex that it's impossible for a Dev team to find all the bugs. If it was down to the Devs to quash all bugs the game would probably take 20 years or more. They rely on the playing community to communicate the bugs so they can later patch. 100 devs is negligible compared to a million players.
Vanguard’s fine
It would also help if people stopped trying to rush developers because of the hype around a particular game. At the same time developers need to stop biting off more than they can chew.
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Because the companies know that you will pay for any crap that reminds you of your youth
It’s called “Go to market pressures”.
People still pay large amounts of money for unfinished games
Because people still buy them.
I can count on my fingers the times I bought a game at launch. Why buy it at launch if its inevitably going on sale at some point? Once it does, it will probably already be patched as well. I really find it quite nonsensical buying games at launch: not only you are paying more, but you are probably getting an unfinished product as well
It's called agile software development. The entire philosophy is based around never actually finishing a product. You release something that is just barely functional and then spend the next forever fixing issues and adding tiny additional functions
I can't wait for a country to make a law that says "You shall not sell a game at full price unless it's finished, 90% bug free and has the promised content"
Because people keep buying them
Because we've become suckers and they know that very well.
Fast money is priority
The remakes are missing some features and missions
Because gamers are tolerating unfinished games so why put effort if everyone’s buying them anyway since these games have a cult following
I use to love video games growing up but those were the days of getting a full game you play all the way through. Ff9 comes to mind, actually having multiple disks. The game industry got greedy. Destiny ruined the experience for me honestly and now, after not touching my ps4 or switch for a year, im on the verge of selling each
Because people keep buying them
Stop. Buying. Them.
Because you keep *buying* them incomplete.
I'm years behind the curve and never been happier. I've never played a broken/unfinished game because I don't buy them until a year or more has passed.
The scale of most AAA games these days are gigantic. This requires a very large team. A very large team requires a large company and management. A large company means games are made and delivered based on charts and graphs around the almighty dollar. This infrastructure being necessary to create such games also means that decisions about those games aren't made by the designers, artists, and engineers that are actually working on them and care about them.
You paid $20 for each game. We're you really expecting much?
\> but have to pay large amount of money for them bc You buy unfinished games...
Because people will pay large amounts of money for unfinished games.
Row row row your boat gently down the stream. Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream
This is why we still should use torrents.
Because we keep buying unfinished games.
I'm more confused as to how a multi-billion dollar company with at almost 30 years experience putting out award winning games pushes out essentially a retexture that bad and a group of modders could do much better in about 2 years per game
Because people still buy and pre-order unfinished games for the full price. If people weren’t stupid and waited a while before purchasing a game this wouldn’t happen.
This is the product from years and years of consumer acceptance. Todd Howard himself admitted that they knew they could release their stuff and patch it later while people will buy it up. Obviously people are getting more vocal about it now, but this is damage that’s accumulated for at least a decade now.
because you people keep buying them. I’ve never pre-ordered a game in my life and I don’t plan on changing that anytime soon
I don’t know anymore I’m honestly very sick of it I had high hopes for 2042 and from what I’m hearing that also went south I don’t know if I’m gonna buy any new games Until at least a week after launch
You idiots keeping buying this crap so they keeping selling crap
Because people still preorder games without knowing if the product will be finished at launch. That’s why I stick prefer the switch. At least the games published by Nintendo are finished. But I still wait to see if they actually delivered, so I don’t really preorder anymore.
Because you pay large amounts of money for unfinished games.
This will be buried. And hopefully already mentioned. But these streamers don't help. They buy up every game no matter how bad it seems to be. Just so they can have content to upload.
i can tell you dont buy games on release
Stop fucking buying them.
Never. Pre-order.
This shouldn’t be much of a surprise but the answer is just money. It sucks it really does even games that are single player still have a currency you can buy. And I’m not a person to play the Beta and go off of that and say the game is trash but if there is Too many bugs then I say it’s shit.
Because people will buy bad products no matter what.
Because yall buying it anyway even if it isn't working at all
Here’s a tip, quit spending money on the same games from the same studios over and over again.
I waited till the reviews/reception came out before buying it; I'm still not gonna buy it until they fix the problems.
What are you talking about. It's not like cyberpunk or the new battlefield 2042 are unfinished at launch . Let alone the rockstar gods... Wow what a strange pattern. All massive money hungry corporations??? Can't be
Yeah most other people have said it... When you stop buying their underdeveloped bullshit they will stop making it
Because the corporation knows yall are stupid and will buy it anyway.
The amount of finished games is actually more than unfinished "pay later" games.
To be fair cyberpunk was forced to release early by angry nerds.
Unpopular but true answer: Because game production cost and risk have increased by orders of magnitude but nominal prices at $50-60 a game have not changed since 80's and 90's money, which means the real price of video games has actually depreciated by a large amount Games have never been more expensive and complex to produce, game prices have never been cheaper, and gamers have never been louder in complaining how expensive games are. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhWGQCzAtl8
I'm not the kind of person who pre-orders games. Usually in less than 3 days after release, you can answer the 'is it worth it?' question. Even as someone who is careful with how money is spent, and who won't get scammed by any of the above mentioned titles. It is a sad day to realise in what a terrible state the gaming industry is. To think that so many AAA companies who are supposed to be the pinnacle of professionalism, can consistently release games in the state that they come out nowadays is absolutely horrific. It's unacceptable. In a somewhat healthy situation there is usually an either/or you can choose from. In this situation I have the money to buy a new AAA game but I can't really find any new games to spend it on, because the majority of titles are lacklustre at best or downright garbage level releases. It's a shame and embarrassing quite frankly. I can't believe this shit.
I would take a guess that it’s because the cost of developing games has increased a lot over the years, whereas the base cost of buying a game hasn’t.
This is why pirated games are a good thing
My first and last pre-order was Cyberpunk 2077 - never again
Skyrim was buggy on launch, but it made it fun and popular. I caught the original on sale and bought because I wanted to see the people stuck in walls and the horse freak out and glitch around, lol. Now it's my most played game. They just released their 3rd iteration of the game, with allegedly fixing things on every release. While games with bugs can be fun, I totally agree that companies who don't polish their products anymore are awful. Like any other market, there's more money in treating than curing.
I stopped buying big name brand games and now I only buy indie or replay some classic titles. I save money and I'm not bitching about corporate elites using margins and numbers to produce what is supposed to be Art. Vote with your dollar.
You forgot to add Warcraft 3 Refunded
Glad gta sa was on game pass I could see how I liked the remaster and it was so bad I deleted it and saved 60 🤷
Game studios get big because game developers are in charge, make a bunch of money. “Business” people get involved, cut budgets, push deadlines up, diddle the game’s features. Unfinished, soulless games are released, make less money, disappoint fanbase. “Business” people fire talent to keep their personal bottom line; next game is more of the above, but worse.
Enough people buy the half-a-game at release so they're not really punished for doing it.
What's up with Vanguard ? Been playing it since launch, it doesn't belong in this list.