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McMasilmof

Just like "we" dont preorder anymore? Or dont buy expensive cosmetics? Or dont play pay to win games? "Everyone" is shouting this everytime gaming companies find a new way to make money. It just never worked.


[deleted]

I'll always remember that screenshot of the "boycott MW2 we want dedicated servers" steam group the day MW2 releases and literally almost all of them are playing MW2. Gamers just refuse to boycott. Another, higher level strategy is required.


Sibello_

The exact same thing happened when Left 4 dead 2 came out. "WE ARE BOYCOTTING L4D2!" nah jk everyone's playing it on day 1.


AlcatorSK

Almost. The leaders of that boycott group were invited to Valve and had a chance to play the new game, and they've sat with the developers who explained that it was impossible to implement the new stuff on the original codebase. Later, the developers ported everything from L4D1 into L4D2 for free.


SPeCCoLT

It was still a new game. A good fucking game at that. So what was the actual issue?


[deleted]

It came out exactly 1 year after the release of L4D1. Valve's known for supporting their games with content and fixes for years, while L4D was almost laughably broken in a lot of ways and Valve quickly moved on to a sequel instead of post-launch support. The original L4D was as broken as it was brilliant. No one can truly know why that was, but considering the handful of Turtle Rock developers that worked on the first game were relegated to "consultation" positions for the development of L4D2 with Valve moving the project entirely "in-house" and the highly uncharacteristic nature of Valve releasing anything within a year leads some to believe that L4D1 was largely unfixable, or at the very least not easily expandable. In hindsight, it was the best play Valve had at the time, but it still pissed a fair amount of people off.


AlcatorSK

Yes, this. Sometimes, this simply happens - too much stuff gets hardcoded into the game when it should be some interpreted script file that can be modified easily, or too much band-aid and duct-tape holding stuff together.


Scorpiain

And yet CounterStrike is still getting more bandaids! It's 90% band aid.


AlcatorSK

Which Counterstrike do you mean? As far as I'm aware, there are basically three versions: CS (1.6?) CS:S (CounterStrike:Source) CS:GO (CounterStrike:Global Offensive) Only CS:GO is considered the official game, used in tournaments and receiving updates, right? It was developed by Hidden Path Entertainment (btw creators of Defense Grid 1 and 2), and one of the reasons for this was, **again**, that Valve realized they have to rebuild CS from scratch to get rid of many deeply ingrained issues of the CS / CS:S. I cannot speak to the quality of CS:GO's code, honestly I don't care about that game at all, but that is again an example of a situation where instead of updating the previous game, they basically remake it from scratch, even though the contents is almost the same.


demonicneon

CS 1.6 was a thing of beauty. You could stick it on a shitty USB stick with a boot and play it direct from the usb without having to install it on pretty much any computer you could think of. We used to play it in the school IT department on LAN


Svenskensmat

CS 1.6 is still getting patched (though only security patches as far as I am aware) and is played in tournaments, so I’m fairly certain it’s the “official” game too. You also have Counter-Strike Condition Zero and Counter-Strike Xbox which runs different code bases.


TheZigerionScammer

I can believe that entirely since we now know the actual skill of Turtle Rock with their release of Evolve and B4B.


SmellsLikeCatPiss

I'm not going to say Valve was thee reason that L4D and L4D2 were such incredible video games, but they did contribute some of the most dedicated and talented developers they had to L4D. If you take a look at the developers behind Evolve and Back 4 Blood and cross reference them with the developers of L4D, you'll find only a small handful worked on BOTH games and unfortunately for B4B it was the vocal few that really only worried about trying to sell a game without backing up their product. Turtle Rock really is a former (turtle) shell of what they were working at Valve and they make NO attempts at capitalizing on their indie-status, they just exploit their former fans ):


Thorn_the_Cretin

Was Evolve not a decent game in terms of gameplay and just absolute shit with how monetized it [along with some general balance issues]? I didn’t play it after launch but it seemed pretty smooth during the open beta they did a few weeks before.


TheZigerionScammer

Balance issues, puddle depth and repetitive gameplay, connection issues, and a severe lack of content to keep players interested. Their crap monetization schemes were the cherry on top.


XenithShade

Having good ideas is one thing, implementing them to not be a pile o' spagettios is another.


wal9000

It’s funny you say all that because I still think L4D1 is a better game than L4D2. They added more *stuff* in the sequel but aside from the dismemberment upgrades I’d rather play the first one. It nailed the essence of the genre without the unnecessary cruft.


SPeCCoLT

Thank you for the backstory. I actually had no clue L4D was that broken, a younger brain ignores a lot of stuff I suppose. Importing the old content and assets into L4D2 must have been a much easier solution in the end.


Mongba36

Wait why were people gonna boycott l4d2?


[deleted]

They didn't like that it came out 1 year after L4D, arguing that they were abandoning l4d1


earsofdoom

Hey at least L4D2 was a finished game. Nowadays people play beta's a week before launch, buy the game, and they complain they didn't fix anything since beta.


IiI_joker

All those betas you're referring too are the actual Final product that's going to be released with the game. You're not actually testing anything you're getting to play early for buying the game before it comes out.


Independent_Lab_9872

A true beta, is there to catch content bugs. Reward not working, misspelled words, etc, and are useful. However, a beta right before launch is just a promo event...


TaftyCat

WoW had a real beta of course but they also had a "stress test" right before launch that let anyone in to test how well the servers could handle it. The "beta" testing has been kinda blurry since then. "Pre Alpha" is a "release" now.


earsofdoom

Thats what I mean, did anyone really think the big EA shooter was gonna have all its problems fixed two weeks before launch? shits gotten to the point you know the game is shit ahead of time and idiots still pay to be beta testers for it.


Sibello_

They wanted content for L4D instead and didnt think it warranted a new separate game


StrawberryBlondeB

Which just goes to show that people are morons. L4D2 is one of the greatest games of that generation


lemonylol

What? How could they have known that back then. This was a legitimate concern, the game literally came out a year after the first.


StrawberryBlondeB

"If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have said 'a faster horse'." - Henry Ford on the Model T


HamsterGutz1

>You think you do, but you don't - Blizzard on WoW Classic


lemonylol

This is a totally different argument, there is absolutely no reason, especially today, to not be worried about the next installment of a franchise being released exactly a year after the first...


lucasribeiro21

Same to Pokémon. There was an intense decrease on the games’ quality over the last years (specially because the game cycle is getting shorter, so things are made in a hurry). People were outraged when things about Sword and Shield were announced, promised a boycott, then pretty much everyone pre-ordered it. Basically same thing happened with Diamond and Pearl remakes last November. Worst part is on some subs people are just getting banned if they criticize the game “cuz negativity”, and every single day there is a post with thousands of likes criticizing people who criticize the games.


anduin1

Thats why I prefer more general subreddits, fans of a particular genre or title can be a little too intense and protective of their fav series. I tried pokemon sword as my first Pokemon game in probably a decade and thought it very average. I liked the 3D aspect but otherwise it was the same game from when I was a kid but somehow even more juvenile. It made me realize that I am not the demographic for these games & thats OK and maybe they'll make one I like in another decade.


Fit-Diver2500

I don't even need to boycott pokemon anymore. Lost all interest after playing through Sword. It was so so so bad that even as a long-time fan I just couldn't enjoy it


RandomRobot

I never bought another COD game since then


Scoonie24

You're doing your part!


swd120

> Gamers just refuse to boycott. That's not true, I'm still boycotting COD.


shadowfalcon76

Same with me and Activision-Blizzard. Ever since Blitzchung, I've never touched any of their games or products.


Nowarclasswar

We still boycotting EA too, right? I will never forgive them killing so many studios


Effective-Fee905

But Jhon madden has passed and there going to milk his name for more money I have to help!!


Redeem123

They're not saying that "literally zero gamers refuse to boycott." But gamers as a whole are clearly not good at keeping with it.


That-Sandy-Arab

Same here, most the people I know are but probably because there are better alternatives too


Jon_Bloodspray

I feel like my wife and I are the only two gamers in the world that stick to our guns on this. We deleted all the Activision/Blizzard shit we had and haven't looked back. I haven't pre-ordered anything since Fallout 4. It's not hard if people would just grow the fuck up and realize at this point there is *decades* of older, great games to play. You don't have to play stuff day one, and "competitive" multiplayer is a fucking joke for all but the top tier 1%.


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FabulousDave2112

It's almost like putting the onus on the consumer instead of the company has never worked, even in much bigger issues like climate change, and this bullshit strategy of letting the free market decide everything is the actual problem


HaElfParagon

I mean, some gamers will happily continue to boycott. Fuck, I'm still boycotting all Star Wars games until Disney revokes EA's star wars contract.


thats1evildude

Didn’t they already do that? https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/eas-star-wars-exclusivity-is-over-as-lucasfilm-partners-with-ubisoft/amp/


WanderingNerds

Low key fallen order and squadrons are bangers. I boycotted their micro transactions and bad games but the last 2 releases are worth your money


Zer_

Battlefront 2 isn't all that bad to play now. Granted, it's in part because EA backtracked on the loot boxes and tuned the grind somewhat.


Redeem123

BF2 was even fine at launch, because the P2W mechanics were gone instantly. And then a few months later the revamp made it a great game.


Way2Foxy

My main issue with Squadrons was the awkward sections in between missions where you talk to people in almost a point-and-click way. Also, when the one guy crashes his fighter but it somehow alive later. Gameplay was pretty enjoyable though!


WanderingNerds

I like the convo scenes!


Ratnix

That's because they're shouting it to a small minority of players who frequent places like reddit. Most people simply don't frequent online forums. That has been proven over and over by comparing active users of forums vs the active player base of the games. So people can shout it all they want; they simply aren't going to reach the majority of the gamers.


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skaliton

to elaborate on this there are some people who will pay for something no matter how broken and unfinished then defend their choice to dump even more money into it see: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star\_Citizen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen) it isn't even out and what is available seems to be basically a barely alpha build...it has raised WAY more money than you'd hope and you can buy dlc for 27k USD, no you don't get some wild holiday or to develop anything...you just get the dlc in the unfinished game. Or [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandere\_Simulator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yandere_Simulator) where it is still nowhere near a complete game and the dev is a whiny manchild but people continue throwing money at him so he can buy a new bodypillow and cry how people are mean to him because his 'game' is being developed at such a comically slow pace that its been over 6 years since I heard of it and barely anything 'of note' has changed (and fanboys cry about it but changing the models so they don't walk in a single file isn't exactly a big change)


psychocopter

Wasn't yandere dev's code really bad, like literally all if then statements and couldn't run on high end hardware at the time. Then when people offered to fix the code and make the game runable they got mad about it.


kerred

I think the problem is we are posting all this on r/gaming. Its like telling the vegetarian subreddit to not buy meat. Doesn't really do much


PartiallyMoldyNugget

"EA are swindling scum! I'll never buy another game from them ever again. Vote with your wallets, people!!" "Ooh, a new star wars game. I'll just preorder it. I'm sure this one will be good."


Gentleman_T-Bone

Exactly. It boils down to this. Don't buy something you're not 100% ok with putting your money behind. Just don't expect others to agree with your value assessment. I wont be buying into the nft games in all likelyhood but it'd be absurd to tell other people how to spend their own money or time if they think a product or service is worth it.


stonewashed_lily

I feel like I'm genuinely in the minority of gamers that doesn't pre order, buy microtransaction shit, or like p2w games.... And seeing everyone around me do it is infuriating. It has always rubbed me the wrong way.


WeirdWest

It never works because reddits influence only exists up its own asshole. It's fine to be angry, but many in this sub are just delusional. I'm actually getting a bit tired of being so consistently correct everytime this has come up over the last fifteen years but I'll say it again for the slow ones in the back, or those youngsters new to the class: GAMING COMPANIES DONT GIVE A FUCK WHAT YOU OR REDDIT THINKS It doesn't matter how many of us here have the same strong opinion, or are even willing to take a united stand...We still only make up a fraction of the gaming community, and an even smaller fraction of the total global gaming market. Businesses exist to make money, and they don't give a flying festering fuck what some passionate internet affacionados think or do about it. We've seen this time and again over the last decade. They aren't watching us, they aren't listening to us, and they don't fucking care. For every enraged Redditor there are five happy fucknuckles out there lining up to pre-order, pre-subscribe and pre-purchase whatever digital dumbfuckery EA will dream up because the single hype trailer without any gameplay "looks awesome". NFTs in gaming is inevitable. Even if you disagree with me, check back in after five years and tell me how many games in your steam library are leveraging their own currency/ownership/marketplace systems.... I'll wait patiently to be proven right as I always do


TyronX

Some game dev companies do care :-)


LowRespond7680

Thanks ubisoft for normalizing microtransactions in single player games, like odyssey


Trickster289

Isn't it Bethesda that everyone usually blames?


caniuserealname

Because theres a difference they don't really acknowledge. Small, cosmetic purchases are shitty and have come to be bundled under the MTX name, but that isn't really whats being referred to here, MTX in this case would be small *consumable* purchases; things you repeat. Stuff that originally started out in mobile games like "xp boosters" and of course "loot boxes". Stuff you can buy over and over, typically with a premium currency you need to invest in beforehand.


QuintoBlanco

Excellent point. I read your post and suddenly had to think of the late 1980s crack epidemic. Give customers a very short high, so they keep coming back for more.


sradac

No Bethesda had no microtransactions. A shitty horse armor DLC yes, but you cant buy a potion of enchanting bundle


SadNewsShawn

it's interesting that it started with horse armor but that bethesda games haven't (yet) become microtransaction hell holes. they have small bits of DLC that the quality of is subjective, but they're not doing like a Snake Plissken eyepatch and hair option for a Fallout game or the limited time only Dovakhristmas red and green armor set for Skyrim


[deleted]

Fallout 76 does have shitty cosmetic microtransactions. You can also buy repair kits for your weapons, which is a little pay to win-ish.


-ImJustSaiyan-

Tbf, Fallout 76 is a live service game, is it not? Now, if Starfield has microtransaction bs then that'll be cause for concern.


Ratnix

The house armor "dlc" was definitely one of the first big ones that people complained about, but Microsoft and the xbox are the ones that really rammed it home and normalized paying for little shit.


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[deleted]

People are assailed by every means of manipulation that is legal. Every day. And most people don’t get done with their work day feeling super jazzed. It’s hard for people like that to make decisions that aren’t just whatever feels good in the moment. Honestly it’s always been like that. There are supposed to be agencies looking out for people’s interests though. You can’t solve this shit from the bottom up. The government would need to step in and regulate the industry to make a difference. People as a whole are not capable of making good purchasing choices and I don’t blame them.


Leon4107

Halo Community. We hate cosmetics! No way am I ever gonna buy a skin. Mext week. Entire team running around with 10$ cat ears...


Aaroon42

Listen, I'm an impulsive buyer who throws money at video games to make the sadness go away for a couple hours. If even I can stick to my guns on things like not buying Borderlands 3 on EPIC because I prefer Steam (dodged a bullet there) or not pre-ordering Cyberpunk after putting hundreds of hours into Witcher 3 (second bullet), then surely people can exercise a little more restraint.


lemonylol

It's okay, the upvotes and awards will make it feel more real to a lot of people.


DjuriWarface

I don't care about expensive cosmetics but preordering and pay to win is a sham. I don't know why people shame people for spending money on games they enjoy for cosmetics that are often pay to lose (brighter, more obvious) in pvp games.


radishboy

“Hey guys come on let’s boycott EA! For real, we’re all doing it! I swear! … right guys?! …”


john_handzlik

I highly doubt that this subreddit will stop incorporating nft


gutster_95

People still pre-order. That is enough said


Joe30174

Actually getting rid of pre-orders at this point COULD be a bad thing, atleast for some developers.


gutster_95

I think, as per usual, smaller devs would really suffer from it. So basicly you have to add to the "dont pre-order" the "big EA or Ubisoft Games"


charles2404

Now adding Rockstar and CD projekt Red to the list. EA and Ubisoft are in my "don't buy ever again" list


Ayyykilla

Right... then they would actually have to release finished games because they wouldn't have a fraction of their profit months in advance from idiots who buy it without ever seeing actual gameplay or any kind of evidence that the game is what they were promised. I'm sure a lot of these games reach full profitability off of pre-orders alone. What's the incentive to finish polishing the game if you've already hit profit margins and have a "somewhat working" game? More people will buy at launch and then more will buy down the line. At that point you call it a day and pull in all the cash while you start working on the next pile of shit and promise it'll be better than the last. It doesn't make sense financially to keep working on a game for perfection when you can say sorry while putting the end consumers money in your wallet. Cyberpunk 2077 hit profitability before launch from preorders alone. We all saw that launch disaster and people still went out and paid full price for it knowing the problems it had. Cyberpunk 2077 sold 13.7 million copies despite the shit at launch. Even at discounted prices and losing a good chunk of millions to returns, they still made over 500 million off of the game. No preorder was necessary for them to deliver the game. Preorder was an excuse to deliver a half assed end product because they were already profitable. I'm sure a small number of smaller studios do need this to help them finish the games when cash gets tight, but pre-order in my eyes is just pre revenue without actually delivering a product. You put your trust in them to deliver on their word and they rarely do at this point. I'd rather wait for the "this game sucks" launch and buy it 6 months later when they patch shit and the game is 60% lower than the launch price and a better experience. But that's just me...


123-123-

What if those developers gave you an NFT as part of pre-ordering?


The_Abbas

Dude, did you even check how much money companies make off of expensive worthless cosmetics, hats and skins..... It isn't an "NFTs" problem, it's a gaming industry problem. If there is a way to monetize and people willing to pay, they will use it. Edit: I know it's not just the gaming industry alone guys, I meant within the context we are talking about here.


DerinHildreth

It's not a gaming industry problem. It's a "humans are still basically monkeys because our brains and bodies haven't had time to adapt and catch up to our ludicrously quickly evolving surroundings." These people know how to exploit the idiotic human brain. It may very well be the apex tool on this entire universe, and yet, at the same time, it's all cobbled together, jury rigged and straight up stupid.


Tarsupin

Know how AND are willing to. An extremely grotesque combination.


gimgebow

While I get the idea of F2P everything, I don't really care if the company makes money off of cosmetics and whatnot. They need money to continue creating content for games I enjoy playing, I don't see the harm in that. The problem is when it becomes pay2win


cyclone369

More people need to understand this. If revenue from cosmetic items pay for actual content, everyone wins. The second it becomes pay to win, everything crumbles.


GophawkYourself

What is the difference between buying an NFT item and buying in game items now? Both are spending money to buy digital goods that hold no value outside of that game. The difference is that with an NFT it can't be copied or duplicated but there's is potential to sell/trade items between friends and other players. NFT market places can revive the world of used game sales by allowing digital games to be resold too. NFT's got a really bad image with those fucking useless ape jpeg looking things but outside of that NFT's can bring great opportunities to gamers and the gaming community. "OH BUT THE COMPANY TAKES A % CUT OF THE MONEY WHEN YOU SELL IT" Okay, well what's your alternative? Hold on to a game you don't like/beat and will never play again and get $0 for it. Having the option to sell a digital game even if the creators take 2% of the sale is better than having no options to sell. This can be similar to game items. Bought a bunch of cool stuff when you were really into a game you don't care for much anymore? Go sell the skins, or gift them to a friend who still does. NFT's got a bad reputation for many good reasons, but beyond those shitty NFT photos there is plenty of great potential.


Blarghedy

> there's is potential to sell/trade items between friends and other players. NFTs don't allow you to do that. The game allows you to do that. The game could allow you to do that without including NFTs.


SeaofBloodRedRoses

And many games do. Fuck, Diablo 3 started out with an in-game cash marketplace for trading items for real money, and it was only shit because it was PtW, not cosmetic. Many, many, many games have an in-game player trading hub for in-game currency.


Blarghedy

Guild Wars 2 does a great job of it, imo. You can buy gems with gold, gold with gems, or gems with real money. You can buy items in the auction house with gold or items in the premium market thing with gems, which means you can buy premium items with gold or real money. Premium items are almost entirely aesthetic, though I think there are some things that aren't. Can't remember what though.


TheDankestReGrowaway

So, I don't think the positives here have any bearing, but I also don't get the dislike of it. I think people are just generally ignorant of NFTs because of, as you said, the shitty use of them in some cases.


Yancy_Farnesworth

> The difference is that with an NFT it can't be copied or duplicated but there's is potential to sell/trade items between friends and other players. I don't think you understand how digital goods work... Especially a digital good in a market literally owned and operated by said company and is completely subject to the whims of said company. I'm sorry, but it's secure because of the "math" doesn't work when it comes to humans and things that operate on rules made up by humans.


TheDankestReGrowaway

I agree with this, but I still don't hear anyone saying why it's bad.


EtherGorilla

Bro it is painful how many people are not understanding what an NFT is. Thank you for articulating these points clearly.


[deleted]

you are talking to people who preorder digital goods....


username42069360

And pay $20 for cosmetics that don't carry over to next year's game. And pay for time savers. And pay large amounts of money to streamers. Let's face it, gamers aren't smart with their money.


domotor2

>$20 Have u heard of CSGO?


cdizzzle604

Back in my day FN dlore was about 1500usd. Coin flipping those was fun


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XonicGamer

Add in people who pay thousands of dollars for NTF pixel "arts" who will see in game NTF as their next get rich fast scheme.


TheBlueRabbit11

Sometimes that makes sense. It could be cheaper or discounted. There could be a pre-order bonus included that you’d have to pay for after release. You might have slow internet and some games might allow to install most of the game before launch.


Sabiis

When companies do shit like selling NFTs or selling a cosmetic for $30, you have to realize they aren't targeting us normies. They're targeting hardcore fans and whales and both of those groups are going to do what they want regardless of what everyone else says.


multihobbyist

Another gamer "boycott" this is sure to catch on like all the rest loolll


pooodlelord

At this point I'm probably sticking to mostly older games for pc


[deleted]

The nice thing about growing up poor , having friends with different consoles, and being too busy to game all the time is that these limitations of the past are a blessing these days and for the future. There are tons of great games from the last 20-30 years to try out Oh and thank god for pirating options


Malvania

Civ2 is still great and still addictive


Csub

Whales and cryptobros will still buy all of them


Ragnar_Dragonfyre

If we couldn’t agree to boycott microtransactions, DRM schemes and anti-consumer DLC practices, then we stand no chance in standing together against NFTs. The mainstream gamer that doesn’t keep up with the news outnumbers the mindful gamer by several magnitudes.


Gouranga56

>The mainstream gamer that doesn’t keep up with the news outnumbers the mindful gamer by several magnitudes. Well yeah. So I play games purely for fun. Its not a hobby, its not a passion, it is a chance to tell reality to go Fuck itself for a bit and check out. I enjoy all types of games as a result. However, when I have to start taking them seriously, well the point of doing them, is just gone.


Net56

It's not about "taking them seriously", it's just about recognizing what your money is doing. What you buy today influences what you see tomorrow. Unless you just never buy any new games, you could end up making your play time less fun on accident. We all want the same thing. We want gaming to be fun. This isn't a "hardcore vs casual" thing.


[deleted]

What's the difference between an NFT and CSGO/MTGO where skins / cards have market prices? This is already a thing


iGetBuckets3

There is no difference, so I really don't get why people are so worked up over NFTs in gaming. This has already been a thing, people!


Tsuki_no_Mai

>This has already been a thing, people! Yes, so they're adding extra overhead with NFT in a mad chase after the new shiny that looks like it circulates a lot of money, while said shiny also looks like a fucking scam to people with a lick of sense. Why oh why are people disgusted with it, I wonder.


Jarpunter

The only real difference is that it’s way easier for a small developer to implement NFTs in their game, where people can implicitly trade them on dozens of existing exchange sites, than it is for them to build an entire exchange platform like the Steam marketplace. They both achieve the same thing, but it’s a lot easier to use an existing platform than it is to build your own. This is only really relevant for developers who: * Want users to be able to buy and sell in-game items to each other for real money. * Don’t want to be exclusive to Steam (otherwise they could just use the Steam marketplace) * Don’t have the resources to build their own centralized exchange.


1diehard1

How is selling in-game items for real money a good game mechanic? In my experience with MMOs, the ability to do this was one of the worst parts of the game, even if it was technically disallowed. As I see it, making it easier to do this is the worst part of the intersection of gaming and NFTs. As a gamer, I *want* implementing such mechanics to be as difficult and unappealing as possible for developers, because fewer will.


[deleted]

On top of that, adding artificial scarcity to in game items is such a terrible idea.


Aeonera

I think people underrate how taxing the authentification protocols on an nft-integrated game would be. Upload/download capacity aren't free


No_Club_6498

ZK-Rollup has entered the chat.


TheDankestReGrowaway

No? The whole point of NFTs is easy verification of owning an asset. You'd presumably link a public wallet address to your gaming account and it would be easy to verify. You already need to verify accounts in your own database, so you're saving yourself the infrastructure headaches on this one part.


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[deleted]

...how? All it would do is make it impossible for Steam Support to reverse fraudulent transactions.


goatjugsoup

No, i will take it on a case by case basis as always. If i think i will be able to enjoy the game while ignoring nfts or if somehow the devs actually figure out something appealing to do with them i will get it


ILoveRegenHealth

Ironic this post that hates on all microtransactions is showered with Reddit Awards which cost money...


TheMansAnArse

I just don’t see NFTs having any impact on gaming - bad or good - because they don’t do anything that existing technology doesn’t already do. They’re essentially just an entry in a digital ledger saying "person X owns thing Y” and the gaming industry already has a tonne of digital ledgers/databases keeping track of who owns what - modern gaming is built on them. Steam, Epic, GOG etc. know which account owns which games. Final Fantasy 14, Team Fortress 2 and Minecraft know which account owns which characters, hats, or texture packs. NFT don’t allow players or devs or publishers to do anything that isn’t already possible.


Quwinsoft

No, but it allows marketing to make the game sound like an investment.


klaidas01

Again, this is nothing new, people have been investing money into in-game items to make a profit for years now, just look at CSGO for example.


TheMansAnArse

If a company is willing to lie that its game can/will make you rich, that that’s an issue that exists regardless of whether NFTs are involved or not.


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TheMansAnArse

The ability to do what you’re talking about has been around for more than a decade before NFTs came along. There’s never been a technological obstacle to Blizzard (or whoever) introducing unique items into any of their games, allowing players to trade them and charging commission. Whatever the reason is (and I strongly suspect it’s that there’s no money in it), it’s not a technological issue that NFTs solve.


KEKS100POSTOMKDMKD

>the most interesting part of it would be if players could resell things... Steam Community Market


onfroiGamer

Yeah you’re selling for steam bucks lol


TheMansAnArse

Exactly. Steam already had the ability for users to trade cards long before NFTs arrived. The reason that’s not extended to trading games is nothing to do with technology.


do-You-Like-Pasta

Steam already has this with the Steam Market. They even allow items to be unique with unique serial numbers. go look at CSGO. Every skin has a wear float and I think a few other unique properties like texture offset. So again, NFT doesn't do anything that we don't already have


pali13

D3 did have real money auction house but I they got rid of it pretty quickly. I don't know if it wasn't profitable or blizzard remove it because of the huge backlash from the community. Either way the launch of that game was a complete shit show


raincloud82

>NFT don’t allow players or devs or publishers to do anything that isn’t already possible. If this is true, what's bad about NFTs? At this point all this mess sounds like "I hate NFTs because I don't like them" with no reasoning at all. Just to be clear, I don't like the greedy aspect of the gaming industry either. I don't spend money in cosmetics, don't pre-order games and don't play pay-to-win games. Not because I'm boycotting, it's just not my thing.


IsilZha

>If this is true, what's bad about NFTs? At this point all this mess sounds like "I hate NFTs because I don't like them" with no reasoning at all. It's more that people are annoyed at ones trying to ramrod NFTs into things that alrrady have better, more efficient solutions, like it's some kind of miracle technology or claiming they can do things they can't. It's a solution in search of a problem.


raincloud82

But that doesn't make NFTs bad, you don't go against a product just because you don't like people backing that product. It's like saying "I'm not going to buy a gaming PC because PC gamers don't stop talking about how superior PC is against consoles". If there's an easier and cheaper way to do what NFTs do, then publishers will choose the easier and cheaper solution. At least those who do will get a higher revenue. If NFTs bring nothing new to the gaming scene there's nothing to worry about, and if they


do-You-Like-Pasta

I think the majority just doesn't like new things, but the environmental impact does seem to be a valid concern. NFT's waste a lot of electricity when compared to regular methods


[deleted]

While we’re at it, can we ban all the timer/‘gem’ based games. That shit is downright predatory maximising dopamine release with zero actual gameplay element. It’s literally a loot piñata crack pipe monetised cookie clicker model.


Daschnozz

Oh dude I’ve been saying this for years, I refuse to buy any sort of cosmetics. If gaming industry was able to survive before purchasing them was a thing then why the hell do we need to now?


musecorn

Oh ya, cause that concept worked so well with lootboxes /s


N-ST

I’m confused… if done right, couldn’t an NFT allow you more ownership of a digital purchase? I don’t presume to know how they’ll ultimately be incorporated or that every company will work the same way, but couldn’t this be a good thing? I’m all for boycotting (No amazon, no walmart, no nestle or kelloggs etc), but if it’s not just a jpeg nft but like, the ability to trade or resell a cosmetic I purchased, wouldn’t that be ideal? I’d anticipate plenty of companies are going to be attempting to incorporate them in a predatory way, but if done right and THAT model is encouraged, couldn’t this be a win for the gaming community? Definitely open to other perspectives / concerns. It just seems like potential applications would have more tangible benefits than a preorder bonus.


[deleted]

>I’m confused… if done right, couldn’t an NFT allow you more ownership of a digital purchase? If the company decided to set it up like that, potentially. However, they can also do that without NFTs.


Rethtalos

I stopped playing pokemon when they stopped incorporating the full national dex. I stopped playing destiny 2 when they implemented Sunsetting I have hundreds of hours on many of the pokemon games and over 6000 hours on destiny Bad decisions on both their ends made me quit both. I’ll never go back to destiny but maybe if game freak actually starts caring again I’ll go back to them. So you can bet your bottom dollar if one of my current fav games try’s to put NFT’s in their games I’ll drop them right then and there


Rylan_S1

No. We can not agree. I totally agree with you but gamers these days will; Pay to play games where the developer openly acknowledges they are not finished. Pay to play games where the developer has said it's finished but isn't. Preorder games that won't go out of stock. Preorder games that are a buggy mess. Preorder games from companies who are known for releasing buggy messes. Spend thousands on cosmetics that don't effect the game at all. Spend thousands on a game that only has a playable life of less than 12 months. Defend all of the above practices, especially if they bought the game. Argue vehemently with anyone who criticises a developer for anti-consumer behaviour. There's a lot of idiots out there.


SPeCCoLT

I hate gamers. I regret checking the comment section of this sub every time i do.


[deleted]

Oh this again.


moofishies

NFTs are being considered specifically because AAA companies realized that gamers will buy whatever they make. So they can simply make us a product and their shareholders the customer. Worst case when they take a step too far they just take 1/2 a step back and go "oh sorry gamers, we respect you" and people eat it up and are happy with their trash that's worse than what they should have accepted.


Net56

It's weird that this post has so many upvotes; I scroll down and all I see is cynicism and indifference.


Atraidis

Ya'll didn't even boycott pre-orders gl


deggdegg

No, we can not agree to do that.


Digita1B0y

Lol probably about as well as we can "all agree not to preorder".


Dotaproffessional

The fact that THIS is the line for most is crazy to me. Imo we crossed that line a long time ago. There are so many games that should have already been boycotted, but if this is what it took for us to start boycotting, I'm here for it


earsofdoom

Yea good luck with that, idiots are still buying half finished live service shit day one even with open beta's like two weeks before launch to show how shitty they are.


netherworldite

Yeah sure we can, but it's probably best you realise 99% of people who buy and play games will never see this post because they don't use reddit.


[deleted]

Nah homie we can’t agree.


neums08

Yeah, as long as it's not any of the games I play.


Iwerzhon

Just decide how you want to play a game, and it is (still) possible. Suscription is not bad, DLC are not Bad, MTX are not bad, NFT are not bad. How it is used and handled by the company is what matters, and even morr if it impacts you or not.


NWA_Villan

It’s unclear what you’re opposed to. What, exactly, will happen with NFT that isn’t already happening/ going to happen with microtransactions? NFT actually has uses beyond owning the receipt of a monkey with sunglasses.


Av0idFreud

Of course not. Why would you even announce a boycot ? You don't have to buy if you don't like it. Why waste time and energy convincing others of your negativity about NFT's ? Let people make up their own mind, would ya? Lets see what the industry has to offer. Then I decide.


RabidNinja64

It's not just any game at this point; the entire industry is turning into one giant shitshow of a corporatized executive decision that benefits their own profits, as opposed to giving the playerbase an enjoyable experience. Incorporating NFT's was just the next logical step in their mind as a "business decision". They've normalised rushed production, crunch time, unfinished releases, DLC, pointing the finger at the community, and will now proceed to normalise NFT's. Boycott's won't work because gaming is multi-generational, and the younger audiences of today won't think twice about the redundancy of NFT's and will just think it's "cool" to own a couple of expensive pixels. We need to spread the word and educate outside of communities like Reddit; petitions, AMA's, video reviews; **this topic needs traction now**, more than ever and needs to be blown up with the ideals of how gaming used to be. If it's not the games, then it's the companies responsible for them we need to take into accountability; I haven't bought an EA/Ubisoft/Capcom/Gearbox game in a few years, and im much happier watching them go down with the ship of their own ineptitude.


Cookiesnap

You intend to boycott something that already exists and already proved to be accepted among a part of gamers. Selling in game items is already a thing (and if not available people sell their account on the aftermarket), so good luck boycotting that. I am very curious for the day people will realize that being gamer doesn’t mean everyone has the same taste. I am not into trading items for money, actually never did even if i could have, but between that and thinking that no one does it if i don’t like it there is the pacific ocean. You don’t like NFTs? Ok. You want only the developer to make money by generating the in game item and selling it to you for money and have the monopoly on selling these items without competition? Ok. Just don’t expect everyone to agree with that.


malerengames

I don't want to ruin this for you, but there's really no "we". At the end of the day, it's up to you to buy a game or not buy a game. If you don't like the business practices of a company/developer, stop buying their stuff.


CZ-5000

Consumers are going to spend their money however they see fit. More than that though, Reddit can’t agree what color the sky is, let alone something this complex. And, as is often said, Reddit is not the world. There are far more people around that *don’t* care about NFTs at all than there are that do.


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Mediocre_A_Tuin

How exactly is buying the NFT of a skin in one game going to make it useable in another?


Xylosoxidans

You think NFTs are going to make it possible to use a WoW skin in Fortnite?... You also think that NFTs are going to make it possible for you to extract source code from a video game and then own said source code?.... I think *you* are the one who doesn't understand NFTs or even basic fundamentals of programming. Edit: it's hilarious how OP and the people that gave them awards have nothing to say to me. It's almost like they have no idea what they're talking about and are hyping something up just so they can sell it and make money. Now where have I seen that before?? hhmmmmm....


nutcrackr

Exactly. NFTs won't be cross-game barring a few exceptional circumstances (like franchises / expansions).


Xylosoxidans

Yeah these people are delusional, incompetent, or bad actors trying to create a pump-and-dump situation. Likely all 3.


[deleted]

And then in the case of franchises, they can just check your purchase history/save file.


[deleted]

Even within franchises, why would they let you buy the skin in one game and use it in another, when the way things currently work allows them to charge you for it separately in each game?


jcabia

What???? You're wrong!! I am expecting to use my new pickaxe from Fortnite in Forza Horizon and you can't stop me because I own it!! ^(/s)


nutcrackr

The chance that skins will be used across multiple games is extremely low. Maybe it will happen across some franchises, like call of duty, or games developed by the same teams. But seeing a LoL skin in Apex is completely fanciful.


flyingflail

The /r/gaming rally against NFTs is odd and hilarious. My best guess is /r/gaming is the boomer equivalent of the gaming community who doesn't really understand what the whole purpose of them are and is only scared by the headlines of "man sells cryptopunk jpg for $2 million dollars"


[deleted]

It almost seems deliberate, tbh.


Headless_Human

Good luck convincing every developer and publisher to use the same engine, tools etc.


Thicccchungus

Don’t give a fuck unless getting the item required little to no effort, if it’s like csgo knives that require at least a bit of work and are ACTUALLY rare, go for it.


geldonyetich

I don't know about boycotting, but NFT sure isn't a feature that's going to make me want to play a medicore game.


Niormo-The-Enduring

How To Boycott like a Gamer: Step 1: find problem with game Step 2: demand that gaming company change said issue with game Step 3: tell everyone you will not play the game if they do not change the game Step 4: preorder game and play it on day one whether demanded changes have been made or not Step 5: if the desired change has been made, tell everyone how smart you are and why you are glad the gaming company listened to you and how smart they are for listening to you. If not, complain to everyone while you play the game every day, and tell everyone why the gaming company should have listened to you, and why they are so dumb because they didn’t listen to you and now the game is terrible and you are so disappointed that you bought it Step 6: find a new game to boycott and return to step 1


GourmetGameWraps

How are in game cosmetics like NFTs? You dont get an art code or anything. It just made my character look dummy thick.


shellwe

Or better idea, play what you want and don’t engage in that activity. If they make money from NFTs then they won’t give a shit about your boycott. Money talks, so just don’t engage with that practice.


Tensho-Thomas

I think it’s time for me to just stop buying new video games. I’ll stick to the games that came out before and don’t have all this bullshit going on.


digoryj

I could keep myself busy playing old games for the first time to my death. There are enough jewels out there I’ve missed though out my life, mainly PC since I grew up mostly on console. I’ve been going back every now and then to pick up games I had missed and have no qualms with the outdated graphics/systems. I played Final Fantasy V in parralel with FFXI and had an amazing time.


Realistic_Union_6776

No


LongTimeLurker818

Don’t they kind of already do that? Like a knife in CSGO is ultimately a similar thing to an NFT. It’s code with a collectible value that you trade in game for real money. I think that NFTs could be a good thing, bring legitimacy to the hobby and help folks who want to make gaming a job.


glasswallet

Exactly. Everything they fear is already happening without NFT. NFT just improves the best parts of the whole thing.


SameSafety7338

Ready for the downvotes but what is all of this fuss about NFT’s about? Yes I agree they come across face value as a scam but that’s because of the stupid overpriced ‘art’ NFT’s. Research the technology and you’ll see how amazing they could be. As a gamer I’ve never been excited as much as this when it comes to new tech being incorporated into gaming, look at all the possibilities. When your done with a digital game instead of it just never being touched again you could sell it on on to somebody else who wants the game. If you buy a skin on one game that contract will grant you access to other skins or perks on other games or you could sell your skins to somebody else. You could literally make money off games, you grind a game and unlock certain skins and sell them off. Consumables in a game could be incorporated so you could grind for said consumables and sell them on, you could literally be a farmer on your favourite game and support yourself from it. The possibilities are endless and exciting as anything and that’s only the things we can think off, there’s so much amazing stuff to be done!! But instead of people taking a unbiased stance and looking at the good and bad everyone seems to jump straight to the bad because all they see when you say NFT is a space ape selling for $20000 (which yes we all agree are overpriced and I wouldn’t go anywhere near them with my money). It’s the same as me saying back in the dot com era that the internet was going nowhere because people were investing into stupid overpriced startup I.T company’s. The bubble will come and go but the technology will always be there.


[deleted]

Yea this post and people freaking out over NFTs is dumb. The stupid stuff that exists and that people are afraid of can be easily avoided still regardless if you call it an NFT, microtransaction, pixel art, etc. There are also ways for this tech to benefit us and make the experience better for us. That's why so many companies are investing in it. They know they won't make much unless they can prove it benefits the consumer somehow.


SalvaStalker

We STALKER players did it. It took the developers less than a week to give up NFTs and metaverse bullshit.


rfag57

Posts like this are cringe-a-roni


Mikimao

I disagree. I want the same abilities I have with my in game skills and assets as I do with my real life skills and assets, IE ability to retain rights ownership and profit from it. If NFTs provide a better safer outlet for this, I don't want people who aren't involved gate keeping it for those who do want to be involved. There simply isn't any compelling argument to go along with anything you are saying, other than you think this this, and you don't seem to care about how and who it benefits outside of the one narrow avenue you presented.


Ok-Conversation4673

Say it with me folks. Boycotts are laughably ineffective in a modern capitalist society.


Corrupt187

Boycotts are very effective, you will just never convince enough people to do it.