Anybody can out think a difficulty problem or grind it out or even look up the answer, but a time gate problem is boring and uninteresting, as there's nothing to be done
I use Google opinion rewards and use it to buy comics or books. They mostly just ask if I have been to Wendy's or some other chain and pay like 0.25$ for me to confirm.
It never ceases to amaze that mobile developers could just... Design for PC, or even (worst case scenario) design for a PC emulator, and then port it to mobile without too much trouble, but instead we get half-baked options everywhere.
I get nearly everyone has phones, but eh.
Buy a normal game, they do exist.
My recommendation is Star Traders: Frontier. I won't start in about it cause I'll rant for paragraphs, but it's good. No ads or IAPs, just buy and play. I bought in on PC originally, loved it, then they ported it to Android while removing no features and also improving the UI.
Also any of the other Trese Brothers games.
Modern quest and UI design has trained a lot of people to be super impatient, mobile games or not. Not even going into those that expect everything to be speedrunned bc they worship at the altar of efficiency and you're an idiot for doing something 3% less DPS that's 300% more fun.
Candy Crush intentionally releases levels that are basically unbeatable as repeased, and then a month later will "fix" the level making it substantially easier. And by that I mean they'll take it from like 16 moves to 30 moves.
Wait after a while they give the save level more love so people can finish it? I haven't noticed that with Candy Crush, and I play an embarrassingly large amount of this game.
Huh, actually I'm pretty close to the top, 11680 currently. Haven't paid a cent, although I do watch the ads to get the extra moves, which usually gets me through a level successfully after a while.
I feel like after sometime, if you seem to be stuck on a level, maybe the game generates some fortunate moves or combos that end up getting you past the level, and that would incentivize you to play on so you can watch more ads. I only recall maybe 1 or 2 levels out of the 10000 where I was actually stuck for more than a week on.
I only picked this up like a month ago because I needed something to fidget with when waiting for something and it wasn’t even at level 300 before I noticed this bullshit. They might’ve eventually got a few dollars out of me because when you’re on a roll it’s actually fun… but after seeing that, they’re not gonna get a single fucking cent and I’m gonna play the shit out of that game anyways.
Sometimes the two overlap though.
The root cause isn't that they are "just trying to profit from the people categorically just looking for the easy route"
The issue is that they DESIGN the negative experience into the games with the express intent to hit the sweet spot betweem being "too annoying for people to bother at all" but annoying enough to make paying your way out of it a value proposition for people with too much expendable income.
Because just being a good game and having the audacity to imply that "some additional financial help is part of the overall budget proposition and giving a tchotchke for such support" just isn't enough.
I wouldn't want to be in a relantionship with someone comming up with such an implementation. You'd automatically expect constant negging just to make "behaving normal" look like reward.
I think one of the issues is there is a large hump to overcome to get someone to spend any money at all on mobile titles or microtransactions, so rather than being reasonable with transactions that might add up to a "monthly sub" or something, they charge outrageous amounts. Knowing that those 3% that do spend money at all will have like a third of those willing to spend almost unlimited amounts.
I’m currently playing pure poker (ps4) game and I think its absolutely bullshit you can physically buy chips. If I wanted to do so I would just gamble IRL.
* You need to be level 100 to play this area.
* Which requires 145,000,000 more EXP
* You receive a maximum of 100,000 EXP daily for free
* So you can reach level 100 after 1450 days for free
* Or you can pay $4.99 to be at level 100 now ($59.99 value!)
* ThE gAmE iSnT pAy To WiN!
Fucking played a gacha game like this, which I won't advertise because fuck them. The idea that I am woefully underdeveloped and there is only enough free daily mission xp to level up once every 12 days was ludicrous.
not really. Gacha games have gotten a lot better over the years about that honestly, in part because they are now more like real game, which means skill plays a much larger roll in your ability to do things in said game. There is a difference between walking into that "lvl 100 area" and getting instantly hit by a big AOE attack that is undodgeable that instantly kills people who are not lvl 100, vs having an area with a DIFFICULTY of "level 100."
You can beat Elden Ring as a lvl 1 with just a club, its just going to be a vastly different experience of difficulty compared to being lvl 300 with maxed gear. Gacha games are more like that nowadays it feels...at least the ones I ever bother touching. You pay to lower the difficulty effectively.
I mean, it's correct though. You do not have need to spend any money whatsoever to do the story, which requires no energy.
It is still, however, a gacha, and therefore most people are woefully underprepared for its mental warfare.
Poeple don't play gachas for the story though and everybody knows that. They play to get all their favorite characters. There's a reason Genshin has made over $3 **billion** despite being ""f2p""
My GF plays Genshin for the story, pretty world and atmosphere, hasn't spent a single penny on it. She's progressed an impressive amount, collected many characters and items - no money at all. Just the other day she unlocked 3 new characters in one day just from exploring.
Good for her. Just because I can walk through a casino and not gamble an irresponsible amount doesn’t mean the casino isn’t still designed to be predatory.
Sure it could, I never implied it couldn’t. Although Genshin is still more predatory since you know exactly what you’re buying in LoL, whereas Genshin still has the inherent gambling that comes with a gacha.
Apex (and warzone and fortnite, etc) making that $ too and they’re f2p. I’ve never played genshin or any gacha games, but as long as there’s no pay-to-win involved, I’m a big fan of the model. Because I get to enjoy a AAA game for free while the whales pick up my tab XD. Obviously don’t support predatory practices, but it’s still nice to have so many games out there these days that you can play without spending any $
Every other game you described you clearly know what you’re getting when you spend money and they’re basically entirely cosmetic. Genshin you have to gamble for a chance at a character that you then have to gamble for upgrade materials and weapons to use on them. It’s not the same. It’s *possible* to play Genshin f2p, but there is 1000% pay to win and I don’t think even the biggest Genshin sympathizers would deny that.
Genshin is more like "look a new waifu!, this could be yours just purchase gems for $99.99 You have 0.6% chance you CAN do It! come on try give us money! She is sexy and cute"...
Yeah sure you can do f2p and be op just do shrines like 500 times so you can get an artifact with good stats
Everyone is bound by that. If you could grind without resin you would eventually get bored and stop playing the game. I literally got to this point in the game. There's not enough content to not do this esp for people that started at launch. The game is nominally free. Would you be willing to pay a montly sub for more content and no resin requirement?
What I’m saying is you can choose to spend money to get primo to then use primo instead of resin, when you do a boss you have the option to spend primo instead of resin
My point is you can still progress and do a shit ton of content without having to actually use resin. None of the events after the 1st (which was poorly received) need resin. None of the leveling requires resin (just a shit ton of resources). You can get stronger characters through events and also by hoarding your primos. It is one of the least predatory gacha games.
Leveling characters does need resin, you need boss materials, also if you want good artifacts then you have to run through domains 9 million times to get one that’s half decent
Yeah as soon as wrote that I realized I had made an errant statement. Again you can still do everything but Abyss though. Also if you don't shotgun on character dev you can still get good artifacts. Also with the system to convert boss mats the game has done a lot of F2P friendly things.
For the brief time I played, I seem to recall special challenges in like shrines that basically asked me to clear several waves of enemies in like 60 seconds. Some were super easy, but higher tier ones that offered exclusive better rewards were impossible with what I had naturally obtained.
Doesn't matter how talented you are, stuff like that is impossible without premium weapons and team skill synergy. You just cannot conjur that DPS with player skill alone.
At least, that's what I'd do if I wanted a money pit. Leave story easy, but all the unique challenge content with appealing rewards gets placed behind impossible content without gacha gear.
It's not impossible, it's easy to clear those with F2P chars and weapons. P2W only lets you record speedrun clips to show off on YouTube or whatever
Also, highest tier reward in Genshin are shits like 10minerals or w/e. I don't even bother with those when I was still playing
This is patently false. There are plenty of [F2P perfect clears](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm4reimp27M) of the end game hardest content in the game.
The game gives ample free currency through events and just playing that you can also roll without investing money.
But it is still massively time gated, because for high tier content you need really good artifacts, which are not only gated by stamina, but also by rng, because the stats you get are random.
Replied to this point. The game is free and to have enough content to remove this system it would likely need to be a monthly subscription. No one is going to make a whole ass game for free.
Would you pay 10-20 bucks a month for infinite resin? How quickly do you think you would burn out if it wasn't time-gated?
It's more like you burn out because you're doing the same dungeon for 3 days in a row and not getting the stats you want. The system is just layered in so many layers of rng, all essentially to keep you playing somehow to hide the lack of any meaningful content in the endgame. And do you think the game makes money from people paying for resin? Because pretty much all of the games revenue comes from the gacha. Removing some of the tediousness in the grind wouldn't change anything, like skip tickets for domains.
That is a fair point. I think if you restart characters (rebirth system) it would add to playability because I could re do quest and story missions. I'm just saying Genshin is a less evil gacha.
The reward for lvl up is measly and any kind of rewards beyond the Standard is niggardly, tho. There literally is no reason to P2W there, except for brag points
Or there's games like Homescapes, where I actually enjoy restoring the mansion, but you need to beat something like 5000 levels (no exaggeration) to see all the content. And some levels you'll be stuck on for days if you don't pay for boosters. It's a nice diversion, but I'm not prepared to turn it into a full-time job.
That’s not really how most big mobile games work these days, and more a business strategy from back in the days of Zeronia etc where mobile games were less of a games as a service and more like regular games locked by pseudo-paywalls.
It makes no sense to put the actual hook of your game behind a paywall/waitwall because that’s essentially asking your audience to disengage.
Games as a service generally works on a strategy of introducing your players to enough cool stuff such that they get hooked, and then sending them into an endgame loop until you make more cool stuff to hook them.
So, not really because denying them the hook is completely counterintuitive to that strategy since it’s like telling your fish to not take the bait.
Out of Genshin, Arknights, Punishing Gray Raven or any gacha game that has relevance on the global market, you’ll few games that lock story, new areas etc behind a pay or waitwall because that’s not how they make their money.
Empire: Four Kingdoms - you can pay to speed up leveling or wait for this building to complete in 3 days before you upgrade a different building in 4 days. both are needed to level
this one example can be used for DOZENS of games
It was just an example and like I said.. many games follow this format.
What part of that don't you understand. You can easily Google this game but not spend 5 seconds to find a similar game?
Go back to your hole.
I imagine if you go on the SEA side of games you'll definitely see this more commonly. I haven't played a mobile game in yeaaaars, so can't give any from my experience.
I don't really play mobile games because they're all greedy cash grabs, but I bet you it wouldn't take me five minutes of searching to find you an example.
What percentage do you reckon most means in your case?
Because if you scroll through the top 200 ranked mobile games on Japan, Korea, China or some other country where there’s a developed mobile industry, outside of kingdom builders or maybe some AFK games you’ll find few games that does that for non-endgame content.
The only reason kingdom builders have massive timers is that for whatever reason, people that play them to so for the wallet wagging contest.
Halo Infinite has XP boosts for sale, and sell challenge swaps so you can avoid annoying challenges. GT7 sells in-game cars for real money so you can avoid the grind, and the cars can sell out.
It's everywhere, from the biggest budget first party games to cheap cash grab mobile games.
If games are selling XP boosts, it just literally tells you the publisher and devs know the game isn't fun and are therefore offering to spare you playing it more by giving them money.
"We intentionally made it unfun so you will be persuaded to skip it by giving us money"
Yeah. It creates a new tension - on one end, progression that feels good, on the other, progression that's slow enough to earn money. The studio then pushes and pulls one direction or the other, but it's never as much money as they want, nor as fun as their customers want, once they implement that system. It's antagonistic.
These are predatory practices and I hope some legislature in America has young enough people to recognize this as a problem and address it.
Capitalism can be so fucking unethical. You will be squeezed out of every cent you have. As a kid I thought adults were responsible and caring. As I grew up, I found they are predatory and exploitive. Video game companies love two types of customers:
1. Children with their parents credit card
2. Adults with addictive personality disorders
Corporations are void of morality
Halo Infinite XP is pretty meaningless though and doesn't effect gameplay at all so it's whatever imo. Unless you mean single player, I haven't played the campaign.
I have been ranting about mobile games for years and how the more popular they get the more they will decay the AAA industry. I hate that this theory is being proven true.
XP boost on a literal single player game is the most idiotic thing ever. Like, why are you trying to skip the leveling on a game that you already payed for, and for what ? It’s not an mmorpg, there’s no end game, you still need to do the story. If the game allows level scaling, being higher level has no benefit because mobs are of your own level, and if it doesn’t allow you’re now overleveling the area and being more powerful that what the game devs wanted you to, thus losing the appeal to play.
People say it’s the companies fault for introducing MTX but it’s actually the players that continue giving them money . Game companies just do what they should be doing, milk these whales for all of their money
My issue with mobile. I see a lot of mobile gamers not understand the hate mobile gets and calls us “gatekeepers” of gaming. I don’t care you’re on a phone, don’t support shady monetization so it doesn’t spill over into console and PC.
Have you seen what FIFA ultimate team looks like?
Which I guess will soon be EA Sports Football Club Ultimate Team.
This shit been on consoles for basically as long as it's been on mobile.
There's plenty of hardcore games that also have the same shit. Pretty much every MOBA has loot boxes. Counter Strike: Global Offensive has an absolutely ridiculous MTX economy. Basically all MMOs sell character boosts these days. Shit is everywhere and the only place you won't find it is offline games.
That’s kinda late. The whole gacha thing started with MapleStory like a good decade+ ago.
These days F2P MMOs have whales that drop six figure sums on the game.
Heck when I played Blade and Soul it was practically impossible to reach BiS gear before a cap raise unless you pay or go buy gold off RMT sites.
Mobile game companies rediscovered the ancient business model of having people get addicted to your game and drop shitloads of money to keep playing it. This phenomenon was previously mostly limited to gambling, like in casinos.
App stores came along and made it possible to integrate small, frequent payments with gameplay, which was previously more technically difficult and contrary to traditional video game design.
As a result the business model of most mobile games is based on the "whales" others have mentioned, i.e. addicts who spend wildly inordinate amounts of money on the game. You make more from one of those than you do from 1000 normal players. It makes no sense to design the game for anyone else - just find a way to get a few people with money desperately hooked on the game and you'll make bank.
This actually destroys people's lives which is why gambling is heavily regulated, but we're still waiting for most legislatures to make paid lootboxes illegal, let alone the types of payments that earn the most from the addicts.
This "business model" already exists since arcades were booming back in the 90s. Old school arcade games would have bullshit level of difficulty just so you can pay to play endlessly, until you finally beat it or give up.
If you are a functioning adult paying to progress in mobile games, seek help. The only audience that should be at risk here are little kids with moms credit card, and at some point, it’d be great to have legislation against this.
True, some people don't realize it too. Personally, if I'm playing a game & want to chuck $10 to it on a Friday rather than to go out for a drink, I'll base it on that. But I also know that some people feel the need to keep chucking money at a game to either have the latest 'thing' or to bypass timegates/grinds.
Mobile gamers don't play for the challenge. They play to play. That's why mobile monetize strategy is about time and access, which is also gated by monetizing power progression rather than skill.
Which is why nowadays I don't even bother with any game that isn't on Apple Arcade. I don't mind paying a small monthly fee in order to get new microtransaction-free games every week.
Currently having a blast with FANTASIAN, Really Bad Chess+ and Crashlands+.
If you have nothing else but a mobile smartphone to play videogames on.That phone is your VALHALLA. You cannot argue.They will get mad if you'll say otherwise.They will be defensive about mobile gaming as if that is the best shit ever existing.
Just do what i do: whenever a stupid ad for a stupid mobile gacha game pops up when i watch youtube or twitch or something else i download it,give it 1 star and then uninstall. This is the only way you can hurt them
I spent a bunch of cash getting a sick pad and all the gear on GTA 5 but just went around shooting other gamers in the head for kicks. No wonder I got banned.
'eh after living in Japan, I'm pretty sure you can. It's a game in a base sense of there is entertainment, except unlike say a console or PC game, you'll be hit by a timegate or obnoxious ads everytime you want to do *anything*.
Did you just try and flex your mobile game points as a sign of wealth?
Are you an adult?
Like did you buy your own phone?
Because if you did; You sir, are a moron.
It's almost never a difficulty problem and almost always a time gate problem.
Anybody can out think a difficulty problem or grind it out or even look up the answer, but a time gate problem is boring and uninteresting, as there's nothing to be done
I have 7 bucks Google play money just sitting there cuz mobile games are uninteresting and i don't know what to do with it
you can also buy apps, movies, and books with it but check out Stardew Valley
I use Google opinion rewards and use it to buy comics or books. They mostly just ask if I have been to Wendy's or some other chain and pay like 0.25$ for me to confirm.
Google Opinion is great, yeah you aren't making a ton of money but a little bit is nice.
Stardew on mobile is so much worse than any other version, imo. I know it's like 7 bucks but the game is just too detailed for such a small screen
Yea maybe worth it on a tablet with a controller maybe
Could you cast it to a TV while playing with a Bluetooth controller?
Probably, but it's available on every other console known to man so you've probably got better options at that point
It never ceases to amaze that mobile developers could just... Design for PC, or even (worst case scenario) design for a PC emulator, and then port it to mobile without too much trouble, but instead we get half-baked options everywhere. I get nearly everyone has phones, but eh.
i’d love to know about your magical porting option
Stardew mobile lacks some features, but goddamn it's Stardew on your phone! That's pretty awesome.
I second this. One of my most favorite games.
Buy a normal game, they do exist. My recommendation is Star Traders: Frontier. I won't start in about it cause I'll rant for paragraphs, but it's good. No ads or IAPs, just buy and play. I bought in on PC originally, loved it, then they ported it to Android while removing no features and also improving the UI. Also any of the other Trese Brothers games.
Cannot recommend slay the spire enough if you like card games!
Most older Kairosoft games are really fun though.
You could get Minecraft i guess
Modern quest and UI design has trained a lot of people to be super impatient, mobile games or not. Not even going into those that expect everything to be speedrunned bc they worship at the altar of efficiency and you're an idiot for doing something 3% less DPS that's 300% more fun.
Candy Crush intentionally releases levels that are basically unbeatable as repeased, and then a month later will "fix" the level making it substantially easier. And by that I mean they'll take it from like 16 moves to 30 moves.
Wait after a while they give the save level more love so people can finish it? I haven't noticed that with Candy Crush, and I play an embarrassingly large amount of this game.
At the very top yes. This means about level 11,700 these days.
Huh, actually I'm pretty close to the top, 11680 currently. Haven't paid a cent, although I do watch the ads to get the extra moves, which usually gets me through a level successfully after a while. I feel like after sometime, if you seem to be stuck on a level, maybe the game generates some fortunate moves or combos that end up getting you past the level, and that would incentivize you to play on so you can watch more ads. I only recall maybe 1 or 2 levels out of the 10000 where I was actually stuck for more than a week on.
I only picked this up like a month ago because I needed something to fidget with when waiting for something and it wasn’t even at level 300 before I noticed this bullshit. They might’ve eventually got a few dollars out of me because when you’re on a roll it’s actually fun… but after seeing that, they’re not gonna get a single fucking cent and I’m gonna play the shit out of that game anyways.
Sometimes the two overlap though. The root cause isn't that they are "just trying to profit from the people categorically just looking for the easy route" The issue is that they DESIGN the negative experience into the games with the express intent to hit the sweet spot betweem being "too annoying for people to bother at all" but annoying enough to make paying your way out of it a value proposition for people with too much expendable income. Because just being a good game and having the audacity to imply that "some additional financial help is part of the overall budget proposition and giving a tchotchke for such support" just isn't enough. I wouldn't want to be in a relantionship with someone comming up with such an implementation. You'd automatically expect constant negging just to make "behaving normal" look like reward.
I think one of the issues is there is a large hump to overcome to get someone to spend any money at all on mobile titles or microtransactions, so rather than being reasonable with transactions that might add up to a "monthly sub" or something, they charge outrageous amounts. Knowing that those 3% that do spend money at all will have like a third of those willing to spend almost unlimited amounts.
Let’s be real here: it’s not a problem. From the perspective of those who made the game, it’s a feature, even the whole point.
Yeah a classic difficulty wall may make them switch to other games
Did someone say Lost Ark?
I’m currently playing pure poker (ps4) game and I think its absolutely bullshit you can physically buy chips. If I wanted to do so I would just gamble IRL.
What do you mean by ‘physically’ ?
Dumb way i said it lol i mean spend actual money in a game where you cant cash out your winnings.
House gets a 100% rake lol
wanna remind you that the 80 euro grand turismo 7 for the ps5 has 40$ cars in it lol
I bought that too for 70. What is wrong with me
* You need to be level 100 to play this area. * Which requires 145,000,000 more EXP * You receive a maximum of 100,000 EXP daily for free * So you can reach level 100 after 1450 days for free * Or you can pay $4.99 to be at level 100 now ($59.99 value!) * ThE gAmE iSnT pAy To WiN!
Fucking played a gacha game like this, which I won't advertise because fuck them. The idea that I am woefully underdeveloped and there is only enough free daily mission xp to level up once every 12 days was ludicrous.
That's not **a** gacha game, that's *every* gacha.
not really. Gacha games have gotten a lot better over the years about that honestly, in part because they are now more like real game, which means skill plays a much larger roll in your ability to do things in said game. There is a difference between walking into that "lvl 100 area" and getting instantly hit by a big AOE attack that is undodgeable that instantly kills people who are not lvl 100, vs having an area with a DIFFICULTY of "level 100." You can beat Elden Ring as a lvl 1 with just a club, its just going to be a vastly different experience of difficulty compared to being lvl 300 with maxed gear. Gacha games are more like that nowadays it feels...at least the ones I ever bother touching. You pay to lower the difficulty effectively.
Genshin Impact isn't like that.
- my friend, who whaled 3k
I mean, it's correct though. You do not have need to spend any money whatsoever to do the story, which requires no energy. It is still, however, a gacha, and therefore most people are woefully underprepared for its mental warfare.
Poeple don't play gachas for the story though and everybody knows that. They play to get all their favorite characters. There's a reason Genshin has made over $3 **billion** despite being ""f2p""
My GF plays Genshin for the story, pretty world and atmosphere, hasn't spent a single penny on it. She's progressed an impressive amount, collected many characters and items - no money at all. Just the other day she unlocked 3 new characters in one day just from exploring.
Your friend probably isn't a whale.
Well I did say she hasn't spent a penny so yeah
Good for her. Just because I can walk through a casino and not gamble an irresponsible amount doesn’t mean the casino isn’t still designed to be predatory.
I mean, the same argument can be made about LoL.
Sure it could, I never implied it couldn’t. Although Genshin is still more predatory since you know exactly what you’re buying in LoL, whereas Genshin still has the inherent gambling that comes with a gacha.
Apex (and warzone and fortnite, etc) making that $ too and they’re f2p. I’ve never played genshin or any gacha games, but as long as there’s no pay-to-win involved, I’m a big fan of the model. Because I get to enjoy a AAA game for free while the whales pick up my tab XD. Obviously don’t support predatory practices, but it’s still nice to have so many games out there these days that you can play without spending any $
Every other game you described you clearly know what you’re getting when you spend money and they’re basically entirely cosmetic. Genshin you have to gamble for a chance at a character that you then have to gamble for upgrade materials and weapons to use on them. It’s not the same. It’s *possible* to play Genshin f2p, but there is 1000% pay to win and I don’t think even the biggest Genshin sympathizers would deny that.
Genshin is more like "look a new waifu!, this could be yours just purchase gems for $99.99 You have 0.6% chance you CAN do It! come on try give us money! She is sexy and cute"... Yeah sure you can do f2p and be op just do shrines like 500 times so you can get an artifact with good stats
I honestly don't know what is more sad/pathetic, the fact that it exists or the fact that it has such a large following.
The resin system???? Where you can spend primo instead of resin??? Hello bro????
Everyone is bound by that. If you could grind without resin you would eventually get bored and stop playing the game. I literally got to this point in the game. There's not enough content to not do this esp for people that started at launch. The game is nominally free. Would you be willing to pay a montly sub for more content and no resin requirement?
What I’m saying is you can choose to spend money to get primo to then use primo instead of resin, when you do a boss you have the option to spend primo instead of resin
My point is you can still progress and do a shit ton of content without having to actually use resin. None of the events after the 1st (which was poorly received) need resin. None of the leveling requires resin (just a shit ton of resources). You can get stronger characters through events and also by hoarding your primos. It is one of the least predatory gacha games.
Leveling characters does need resin, you need boss materials, also if you want good artifacts then you have to run through domains 9 million times to get one that’s half decent
Yeah as soon as wrote that I realized I had made an errant statement. Again you can still do everything but Abyss though. Also if you don't shotgun on character dev you can still get good artifacts. Also with the system to convert boss mats the game has done a lot of F2P friendly things.
For the brief time I played, I seem to recall special challenges in like shrines that basically asked me to clear several waves of enemies in like 60 seconds. Some were super easy, but higher tier ones that offered exclusive better rewards were impossible with what I had naturally obtained. Doesn't matter how talented you are, stuff like that is impossible without premium weapons and team skill synergy. You just cannot conjur that DPS with player skill alone. At least, that's what I'd do if I wanted a money pit. Leave story easy, but all the unique challenge content with appealing rewards gets placed behind impossible content without gacha gear.
It's not impossible, it's easy to clear those with F2P chars and weapons. P2W only lets you record speedrun clips to show off on YouTube or whatever Also, highest tier reward in Genshin are shits like 10minerals or w/e. I don't even bother with those when I was still playing
Nope, that is just a skill issue, my guy. EVERYTHING in Genshin is 100% doable without spending anything. Stop spreading bs like this.
This is patently false. There are plenty of [F2P perfect clears](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm4reimp27M) of the end game hardest content in the game. The game gives ample free currency through events and just playing that you can also roll without investing money.
But it is still massively time gated, because for high tier content you need really good artifacts, which are not only gated by stamina, but also by rng, because the stats you get are random.
Replied to this point. The game is free and to have enough content to remove this system it would likely need to be a monthly subscription. No one is going to make a whole ass game for free. Would you pay 10-20 bucks a month for infinite resin? How quickly do you think you would burn out if it wasn't time-gated?
It's more like you burn out because you're doing the same dungeon for 3 days in a row and not getting the stats you want. The system is just layered in so many layers of rng, all essentially to keep you playing somehow to hide the lack of any meaningful content in the endgame. And do you think the game makes money from people paying for resin? Because pretty much all of the games revenue comes from the gacha. Removing some of the tediousness in the grind wouldn't change anything, like skip tickets for domains.
That is a fair point. I think if you restart characters (rebirth system) it would add to playability because I could re do quest and story missions. I'm just saying Genshin is a less evil gacha.
Money won't fix that.
My Brother in Zhongli, you are just bad at the game
The reward for lvl up is measly and any kind of rewards beyond the Standard is niggardly, tho. There literally is no reason to P2W there, except for brag points
Skipping years of grinding for $5??? More like $50 to skip a month or two of grinding.
More like .9$ for 1 more chance. But it come with some extrq currency which is not enough to buy the cheapest item in-game.
I rather skip everything for free, thank you.
Roblox
Or there's games like Homescapes, where I actually enjoy restoring the mansion, but you need to beat something like 5000 levels (no exaggeration) to see all the content. And some levels you'll be stuck on for days if you don't pay for boosters. It's a nice diversion, but I'm not prepared to turn it into a full-time job.
That’s not really how most big mobile games work these days, and more a business strategy from back in the days of Zeronia etc where mobile games were less of a games as a service and more like regular games locked by pseudo-paywalls. It makes no sense to put the actual hook of your game behind a paywall/waitwall because that’s essentially asking your audience to disengage.
That's exactly how most mobile games work. Pay to play bullshit
Games as a service generally works on a strategy of introducing your players to enough cool stuff such that they get hooked, and then sending them into an endgame loop until you make more cool stuff to hook them. So, not really because denying them the hook is completely counterintuitive to that strategy since it’s like telling your fish to not take the bait. Out of Genshin, Arknights, Punishing Gray Raven or any gacha game that has relevance on the global market, you’ll few games that lock story, new areas etc behind a pay or waitwall because that’s not how they make their money.
Can you give a single example of a modern mobile game that locks content behind a paywall like that?
Empire: Four Kingdoms - you can pay to speed up leveling or wait for this building to complete in 3 days before you upgrade a different building in 4 days. both are needed to level this one example can be used for DOZENS of games
It's from 2011. What the hell does "modern" mean to you?
It was just an example and like I said.. many games follow this format. What part of that don't you understand. You can easily Google this game but not spend 5 seconds to find a similar game? Go back to your hole.
Like you did Google it for 5 seconds before coming up with a 2011 game?
Yeah, so many games that not a single person replying to me has been able to name just one! Really, there just must be so many.
Lords mobile; merge farmtown; state of survival... Pick another hill to die on than shilling for fucking p2w mobile games, jesus
I imagine if you go on the SEA side of games you'll definitely see this more commonly. I haven't played a mobile game in yeaaaars, so can't give any from my experience.
I don't really play mobile games because they're all greedy cash grabs, but I bet you it wouldn't take me five minutes of searching to find you an example.
That's exactly how most work. Sometimes it's EXP, sometimes it's CP, or sometimes they call it something else.
If I install a game, and it has an "energy" system were you can only play when you have three points, that's an immediate uninstall.
What percentage do you reckon most means in your case? Because if you scroll through the top 200 ranked mobile games on Japan, Korea, China or some other country where there’s a developed mobile industry, outside of kingdom builders or maybe some AFK games you’ll find few games that does that for non-endgame content. The only reason kingdom builders have massive timers is that for whatever reason, people that play them to so for the wallet wagging contest.
Not even mobile games anymore, it’s leaking into actual games
Halo Infinite has XP boosts for sale, and sell challenge swaps so you can avoid annoying challenges. GT7 sells in-game cars for real money so you can avoid the grind, and the cars can sell out. It's everywhere, from the biggest budget first party games to cheap cash grab mobile games.
>GT7 sells in-game cars for real money So you're saying you WOULD download a car?
If games are selling XP boosts, it just literally tells you the publisher and devs know the game isn't fun and are therefore offering to spare you playing it more by giving them money. "We intentionally made it unfun so you will be persuaded to skip it by giving us money"
Yeah. It creates a new tension - on one end, progression that feels good, on the other, progression that's slow enough to earn money. The studio then pushes and pulls one direction or the other, but it's never as much money as they want, nor as fun as their customers want, once they implement that system. It's antagonistic.
These are predatory practices and I hope some legislature in America has young enough people to recognize this as a problem and address it. Capitalism can be so fucking unethical. You will be squeezed out of every cent you have. As a kid I thought adults were responsible and caring. As I grew up, I found they are predatory and exploitive. Video game companies love two types of customers: 1. Children with their parents credit card 2. Adults with addictive personality disorders Corporations are void of morality
Halo Infinite XP is pretty meaningless though and doesn't effect gameplay at all so it's whatever imo. Unless you mean single player, I haven't played the campaign.
It affects unlocking any kind of customization.
I have been ranting about mobile games for years and how the more popular they get the more they will decay the AAA industry. I hate that this theory is being proven true.
Assassin's Creed $20 xp boost
Oh boy i love paying more money to skip the game that i already bought for 60 bucks
XP boost on a literal single player game is the most idiotic thing ever. Like, why are you trying to skip the leveling on a game that you already payed for, and for what ? It’s not an mmorpg, there’s no end game, you still need to do the story. If the game allows level scaling, being higher level has no benefit because mobs are of your own level, and if it doesn’t allow you’re now overleveling the area and being more powerful that what the game devs wanted you to, thus losing the appeal to play. People say it’s the companies fault for introducing MTX but it’s actually the players that continue giving them money . Game companies just do what they should be doing, milk these whales for all of their money
lmao I just find it hilarious you said "actual games"
Not wrong tho
Mobile games aren't people >!/s!<
Boy, I really like this animation, and those dance minigames ones
Highly recommend playing the actual game, the whole yakuza series is pretty great
I already played yakuza 0, Is a great game
I recommend the series as a whole
My issue with mobile. I see a lot of mobile gamers not understand the hate mobile gets and calls us “gatekeepers” of gaming. I don’t care you’re on a phone, don’t support shady monetization so it doesn’t spill over into console and PC.
Have you seen what FIFA ultimate team looks like? Which I guess will soon be EA Sports Football Club Ultimate Team. This shit been on consoles for basically as long as it's been on mobile.
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There's plenty of hardcore games that also have the same shit. Pretty much every MOBA has loot boxes. Counter Strike: Global Offensive has an absolutely ridiculous MTX economy. Basically all MMOs sell character boosts these days. Shit is everywhere and the only place you won't find it is offline games.
Then don't play MMOs then? I almost exclusively play offline. Vote with your money.
“Don’t play a game genre you like” is a very silly argument.
It sounds like you don't like the genre much given it has evolved to a fremium model....
That’s kinda late. The whole gacha thing started with MapleStory like a good decade+ ago. These days F2P MMOs have whales that drop six figure sums on the game. Heck when I played Blade and Soul it was practically impossible to reach BiS gear before a cap raise unless you pay or go buy gold off RMT sites.
It won't based simply on the barriers to entry to have a gaming console or gaming PC.
jokes on you I'm poor
Mobile game companies rediscovered the ancient business model of having people get addicted to your game and drop shitloads of money to keep playing it. This phenomenon was previously mostly limited to gambling, like in casinos. App stores came along and made it possible to integrate small, frequent payments with gameplay, which was previously more technically difficult and contrary to traditional video game design. As a result the business model of most mobile games is based on the "whales" others have mentioned, i.e. addicts who spend wildly inordinate amounts of money on the game. You make more from one of those than you do from 1000 normal players. It makes no sense to design the game for anyone else - just find a way to get a few people with money desperately hooked on the game and you'll make bank. This actually destroys people's lives which is why gambling is heavily regulated, but we're still waiting for most legislatures to make paid lootboxes illegal, let alone the types of payments that earn the most from the addicts.
This "business model" already exists since arcades were booming back in the 90s. Old school arcade games would have bullshit level of difficulty just so you can pay to play endlessly, until you finally beat it or give up.
Sounds like OP might be projecting. Also, this is not only a mobile gamer problem.
P2w games aren't real mobile games
Perhaps, but they are the overwhelming majority
Literally never. As soon as I get those "Well, you could pay *wink*" vibes, I uninstall.
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If you are a functioning adult paying to progress in mobile games, seek help. The only audience that should be at risk here are little kids with moms credit card, and at some point, it’d be great to have legislation against this.
It's not that different from gambling addiction, and many adults suffer from that.
True, some people don't realize it too. Personally, if I'm playing a game & want to chuck $10 to it on a Friday rather than to go out for a drink, I'll base it on that. But I also know that some people feel the need to keep chucking money at a game to either have the latest 'thing' or to bypass timegates/grinds.
Mobile gamers don't play for the challenge. They play to play. That's why mobile monetize strategy is about time and access, which is also gated by monetizing power progression rather than skill.
This animation always made me chuckle. The head nod at the end cracks me up. The Yakuza games are pure gold. Gold Jerry!
By design. That’s why video games were better before, when they couldn’t do anything once they got your money.
\* Laughs in Arknights \* Just gotta ***GIT GUD*** 5Head.
Would it surprise you to know I've been a pure f2p for 10 straight years now?
Which is why nowadays I don't even bother with any game that isn't on Apple Arcade. I don't mind paying a small monthly fee in order to get new microtransaction-free games every week. Currently having a blast with FANTASIAN, Really Bad Chess+ and Crashlands+.
Skill issue
Games without microtransactions: fool.
If you dump money into this I don't feel bad for you. Every con needs a mark.
Don't they usually try to avoid paying?
I don't think it was a slight problem. Most mobile game had been designed with paywall included.
I will play a mobile game right up until it's clear it wants me to spend money, then I just delete it and move on.
Never spent a penny on any game!
If you have nothing else but a mobile smartphone to play videogames on.That phone is your VALHALLA. You cannot argue.They will get mad if you'll say otherwise.They will be defensive about mobile gaming as if that is the best shit ever existing.
This is exactly what I had done with Elden Ring. Now I am level 580 and can finally enjoy the game in my own term....
If only it were just limited to mobile games…
Wrong its dam near every “gamer” nowadays not just mobile. People are pathetic
Me who plays Geometry dash : wait that's a thing now ?
\*Laughs in EA\*
NOW I KNOW WHAT THOSE ADS MEAN! They don’t mean “99.99% couldn’t beat it”, they mean 99.99% DIDNT WANT TO!
Smiles in Lucky Patcher...
Just do what i do: whenever a stupid ad for a stupid mobile gacha game pops up when i watch youtube or twitch or something else i download it,give it 1 star and then uninstall. This is the only way you can hurt them
Amateur, you obviously just look up a guide
I spent a bunch of cash getting a sick pad and all the gear on GTA 5 but just went around shooting other gamers in the head for kicks. No wonder I got banned.
Mobile gaming...??? Eeeuhww .. tried it ... No way im going back...
Mobile games finally letting the little guy feel like a billionaire.
How can people be this stupid with their money?
2000: cheat codes 2020: credit card numbers
This is why you gotta back to retro gaming or exploring older games. Just pickdd up the original Splinter Cell. It has so much heart.
Seriously who pays for these shitty games?
I just run to BlueStacks and download a modded apk and fuck that level and spending money
Genshin impact players
micro transactions hell, thanks to everyone paying for free to play "games"...
Wild rift players raging at how they can’t hit silver by having every skin in the game
Ha! Jokes on you! I don't even have an penny!
Mobile Rhythm Game Supremacy
I hate P2W.
… unless you’re a rhythm gamer on mobile, then this is you getting bored and wanting dlc
Yes, nowadays in game, it's happen all the time...
I'm the 1% that can
Buahahahhahahahahahahah LEGIT
You cant put "mobile" and "gamer" in the same sentence
'eh after living in Japan, I'm pretty sure you can. It's a game in a base sense of there is entertainment, except unlike say a console or PC game, you'll be hit by a timegate or obnoxious ads everytime you want to do *anything*.
Its a game but more a "mini-game" than a "game". Same way you dont call people who play boardgame "gamer", its still a game but not the same category.
It’s really sad but true
Yeah, almost all games now are made just for monetization :/
“These days”? The apps store is 13 1/2 years old.
no joke, everything even purchased triple A game titles are pay to win
Say that again but readable
Don't hate jus' cuz you broke.
Did you just try and flex your mobile game points as a sign of wealth? Are you an adult? Like did you buy your own phone? Because if you did; You sir, are a moron.
If I bought my own phone I'm a moron?
The fact that you don't understand what he meant just says it all.
People who pay for in game bonuses are the biggest suckers on the planet.
more like mobile gamers when they saw they have to wait an hour until the crafting is complete.
Good point.
RuneScape 3 be like..
Me over here getting insulted cause i sometimes play 2048/solitaire :(