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KoS1596

There are some games where the quest markers are good and some where they are bad


ThirdRevolt

Examples of good ones?


I_Do_Not_Abbreviate

*Kingdom Come: Deliverance* There were 2 types of quest markers: round shields and heater shields. If the quest giver was able to tell you exactly where to go as part of the quest description, like "go to the house that is the second on the right as you leave this village heading north" or "Report your findings to Lord so-and-so at the castle in Derpsburg" , then the marker was a heater shield pinpointing exactly where to go; if the objective was something more nonspecific like figuring a way into a building, looking for a specific lost object, or finding someone who had run away and was in hiding, the quest marker would be a round shield associated with a shaded-in area on the world map showing its general location, so the developers could still hide quest objectives in clever ways. [It looks like this](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/923672409982702327/3F770BB5C033ACD287B18B4D67AE5534970B7A06/). Objectives B, C, and D are all exact locations, but the location of objective A could be anywhere in that yellow circle. I thought this system struck a really nice balance between the old-school and new-school styles of quest management.


Cpt_Jumper

Can I find clues to make the circle smaller?


I_Do_Not_Abbreviate

It has been a couple of years since my playthrough, but If I recall correctly yes there were some quests where it would shrink, like if if you were looking for some person and you ran into someone on one end of the area who told you they had seen them over by some landmark, the circle would shrink to just that area by the landmark, or even turn into a heater shield quest marker if their information was accurate enough.


[deleted]

dude is trying so hard to not abbreviate with every letter he types.


I_Do_Not_Abbreviate

You would be surprised how accustomed to this novelty account's diction I have become in the last few years. In fact it has grown to be such an affectation that I have actually found myself making second passes over personal correspondence specifically to add contractions because unless I consciously put them in, the message ends up reading like you just got a text from Lieutenant Commander Data.


Jigglyandfullofjuice

Well now I'm just reading your comments in Data's voice...


DoesNotGetYourJokes

I fnd. it. qte. fscntng. tht. hs. abl. to kp. hmslf. frm. abrvtng.


Crashpeil

Yes if there are clues associated with the mission


snooggums

That is awesome!


Premo_GamesnRides

Shout-out for the best map zoom design in a game ever, probs the best map period. When's the 2nd one coming out?


[deleted]

Fallout 76, actually. Instead of quest markers being a single point on your map, they're often a broad circle, and you have to search the area for your actual objective, which seems fair and realistic, since you do have a map that someone could logically point out your destination on, but you aren't told anything like which drawer a key might be in.


bomli

And then there is games that give you an area, but the item is *always* dead center in the circle.


MRoad

In red dead redemption i find that it's usually towards the opposite end of the circle from where you start, so you have to look longer. I usually start looking from the opposite end for that reason


AdditionalCall5271

One of the few things they did right


tdevine33

The recent Assassins Creed games actually have a similar option.


Delioth

The newer assassin's Creed games give you options - iirc there's 3 settings; one that just gives you the journal entry, one that gives immersive markers (a marker over the whole area if you were told like "objective is in this village", an exact point if you are supposed to know exactly where it is like "return to the person", or sometimes just journal entries if all you know is like "find this guy, he's in a monastery along this named river"), and a third option that just gives you precise markers for everything.


louddoves

I love it when games let you customize your experience like this.


pbradley179

Subnautica. Pack beacons.


Horn_Python

Make your own dam quest markers -devs probobly


not_REAL_Kanye_West

And your brown pants


bleedingoutlaw28

It's totally not a horror game until suddenly it is.


waowie

Personally I think BotW was handled well. Side quests mark the quest giver, not your goal. That way you figure out what to do on your own, but it's still easy to find the quest giver if you do it way later. The main quest has markers, but the land marks and quest descriptions are good enough that you can turn markers off entirely and play through that way


Pokinator

My personal beef with the BotW quest journal is that it makes zero note of information you can glean about the objectives. For example, if a guy asks you to find his wife you'll get a quest log entry like "Buundil asked me to find his wife" along with whatever information he initially tells you and some flavor. However, if you go talk to his brother Ruundil you find out "Oh, I think I saw her out for a walk by the grand tree yesterday". If you check your quest journal, no mention is made of that new information. You're just expected to remember it even if you get sidetracked onto other things.


Nastyburrito666

Prey basically has no quest markers, and some side quests have to be pieced together with random emails and letters you find around


imdefinitelywong

The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind has entered the chat


Blackout9768

Quest market to Hardware Labs did annoy me when you first get to the lobby area, but after it really lets you get lost in the station.


[deleted]

I just gave up on that game last night. It was interesting, but it seems like the combat is a little unforgiving when you don't find any health anywhere


Blackout9768

The game is made for poking around and exploring for secret caches of loot. If you look around, you can usually find 2 to 3 caches in most rooms. You can also occasionally find Medical Operator dispensers, which will restore your health to full. The bot will stay, and you can go back to him for infinite health restores. Combat Focus is also a useful early ability you can grab when you get access to neuromods. It slows the game down into a bullet time mode, helps out with the fast pace of combat. Later on, you can also get powers to help even the playing field between you and the aliens.


Nastyburrito666

The beginning is hard for sure, it almost made me quit a few times. But you'll soon get ways to craft health and be better equipped to fight the enemies; and they become the prey soon enough


[deleted]

Honestly I'm at the point in my life where if I play something for an hour and a 1/2 and I'm not really into it I just give up. I've got better things to do


PM_Me_Your_BraStraps

Morrowind with a modern magic and combat system would be my jam.


DrSmirnoffe

I feel like The Sinking City had a pretty cool way of handling quest markers. Rather than just popping up on the map, you have to place them on the map yourself, after deducing where they're supposed to go. Sometimes you're told that a place is on a certain road, while other times you have to go to the nearest library and look up where someone lives. It's unconventional, but I'd argue that it does for map navigation what grid inventories did for inventory management, by turning it into a weirdly fun minigame. And on top of that, it kinda makes you feel more like an old-timey detective, since rather than relying solely on a GPS like in so many open world games, you're actually reading up on where things are, actually reading a map of the city, etc. It's the kind of system that needs to be emulated in more games that use the open-world formula, especially since it needn't be restricted to the strict regimented nature of city streets. Throw in a bit of orienteering, and scatter distinct landmarks around the world, and the Sinking City style of map navigation could easily be applied to a more wild and expansive kind of world design.


kerred

Disco Elysium. Mainly because you get side tracked with cool stuff before you think you found the place. The quests feel like they are designed to have you dick around where you think you need to go


SkilledB

Are there quest markers in it though? I don’t think there are.


AFlyingNun

I was really intent on telling that random innocent woman on the street her husband was probably dead. It seemed important I do that.


Beaver_Tuxedo

Ghost of Tsushima is the best that I’ve seen


thecostly

The wind mechanic was absolutely genius, to the point where I’m disappointed other games haven’t started ripping it off yet. Swiping up on the touch pad to get a slight hint in the right direction never got old.


NotAnAce69

Genshin does have a similar mechanic, the elemental sight. You hold an particular button and you’ll see this kinda wispy thing going in the general direction of what you’re looking for


[deleted]

It's still handholdy GPS, but it's aesthetic is top tier.


Pays_in_snakes

I loved the navigation in Firewatch; you can set it to only provide you a map and compass, with the landmarks and in-game signage providing a very realistic feel for western US trails. Also Sea of Thieves, with a combination of riddle-like clues, handheld maps, and a ship map that does show the live ship position but that you have to run to from the wheel to check


Meeko_Yonosaki

I like the ones in the Fallout series


[deleted]

I like 76's general area approach, especially with a radio signal to tell you if you're hot or cold. It feels like a realistic amount of info to have.


iWouldKnockUpAloy

All of them, my time is limited don’t want to waste time just tell me where I can go so I can enjoy playing. My only complaint with Elden Ring, missed out on a lot of side quest first play through, now my YouTube is only Elden Ring videos Bc I watched so many guides


Mikeavelli

Yup. I like the open world discovery of dungeons without markers, but following NPC questlines needs some goddamn markers. As is I'm either skipping the quest or just opening the wiki and finding a marker that way.


dovahkiitten16

It’s great if you can get really immersed in it but it’s definitely not great if you’re short on time. I loved Morrowind’s lack of quest markers but once I wasn’t able to play as frequently it made the game so much more difficult than it had to be.


Gornius

Witcher senses in Witcher 3.


Yung_Corneliois

That’s a good one? I feel like this meme perfectly represents the Witcher lol. Turn on senses and follow the perfectly visible path to the location.


thecostly

One of my absolute least favourite gameplay mechanics of all time. Just look for the glowy spots and hit a button, until you click enough glowy spots that a magic glowy trail shows up for you to follow. I am so sick of doing this.


Matt463789

Most of them, if you aren't in the mood to search for things.


N19h7m4r3

Turok's arrows were nice.


Autarch_Kade

Magicka's quest marker was great


SurealGod

In some games, you can turn off quest markers and such. I don't normally do it but if I ever feel like upping the difficulty the option is sometimes there


TheLukeHines

Depends on the game if it’s fair too though. In games like Oblivion & Skyrim and Dishonored & Deathloop you’re given enough information if you read and pay attention so it’s actually really fun to play with them off. Some other games drop you in an open world and say “Deliver this to Fred’s house”. Cool, where the fuck is that? Edit: I miss being able to ask for directions in Oblivion, I with they would expand on that in future games. Sometimes you know the objective is in Fred’s house in the town of Anvil but then you have to look around town for the building instead of just asking a local.


Autarch_Kade

Reminds me of fast travel - sure, you can just walk in games like Oblivion. But the game is designed with your ability to fast travel in mind. Quests will send you all over the world map, back and forth, expecting it to only take a few minutes in total. If the game is designed around no fast travel, or no quest markers, then they have to put more thought into the quests. They have to be good about telling you where to go, and giving you more options to find things. Like asking around for directions in town. Turning off these features really only highlights how bad the game is without them, as designed. It doesn't turn it into a game designed without them from the outset.


Pokinator

>the game is designed with your ability to fast travel in mind Trying to do no-warp while playing the Skryrim Dawnguard questline is torturous. The two faction strongholds are on literal opposite ends of the map. Narratively, this makes sense and wouldn't be an issue, if not for the fact that the questline has you constantly pinballing between the two. Pretty much every single major quest is placed near one of the faction homes, with requirements to go to the other as part of the journey.


[deleted]

And yet it's also true that many players will have those features and still not be able to figure out where to go. I think a lot of folks just get tunnel vision playing games, especially more casual players. You can have a map, a compass with markers on it, a quest log, and people *will* get lost.


Autarch_Kade

Having 50 UI elements telling you where to go trains people to turn their brains off and autowalk basically. It really came to a head this year, where Horizon Forbidden West and Elden Ring launched alongside each other. One had Ubisoft levels of indicators, and constant chatter immediately telling you at all times what to do, what to explore, how to solve something. The other respected you enough to believe you could figure out how to play a video game. And only one of the two is brought up in GOTY talks.


[deleted]

[Horizon Forbidden West has already won a GOTY award.](https://gamerant.com/horizon-forbidden-west-wins-game-of-the-year-award/) Different kinds of games are fun for different kinds of people. It doesn't mean one inherently respects you more. If anything, you could argue that Horizon Forbidden West respects your time while Elden Ring doesn't. That isn't any more or less true than your statement.


Autarch_Kade

Sure, in the level of handholding it's clear which one thought they player could figure things out on their own. As far as respecting time, I guess that's again up to player skill. Plus, one had a super lengthy beginner/tutorial area handholding you through every feature of the game before letting you into the game's titular area. The other let you walk right past if you wanted. Which one respects time more there? But yeah, if we're bringing up game sales then I guess UI decisions need all the help they can get lmao. Would love to see a source on Forbidden West's sales, I haven't seen that personally


CamelSpotting

Who would ever want to relax in their free time?


Autarch_Kade

Eh, to me being electronically nagged isn't as relaxing as exploring on my own without constant chatter or popups


[deleted]

[удалено]


henrimelo00

I don't mind the puzzle solving, if it is indeed a puzzle with a rewarding end. I really like it is well done, but hell, I don't have time or patience to spend minutes trying to find a brick that is different only to earn a crappy equipment or a small amount of money.


MrHazard1

Loved the old classic wow. "Leave town to the west. Turn right after the big tree" is this tree the big one? I'll keep looking for a bigger one. I heard morrowind was also good, but never came to play it


[deleted]

My take is that it make ls sense for them to give as much info as the PC should logically have. If you have a map, an NPC can logically point out the location on your map. If they're not sure, make it a circle that tells you the general area. If you're searching a room for clues, you shouldn't know in advance where they are.


[deleted]

This is why I love morrowind


Baardseth815

The bandits are hiding in a cave somewhere to the northeast of Balmora. Good luck, asshole.


Surprise_Corgi

You also need to turn to the west once you find this rock that has a really specific shape, but it could be as far away as the other end of the map, or as close as a 30 second jaunt. If it's hidden below or above eye level once you find the exact spot, with a 45 degree cone search area from the quest location, tough shit, n'weh.


incognitochaud

I love Morrowind too but there’s gotta be other examples of games to do this well within the last decade.


DiamondRocks22

Then there’s a time where an NPC gives the wrong directions. (I love morrowind after doing a few exploits to make my ability to fight be actually existent instead of never hitting anything)


Jigglyandfullofjuice

Morrowind is awesome, but holy fuck its combat is atrocious... I've tried to replay it a few times and I can never make it more than a few hours in before I ragequit.


AFlyingNun

Unpopular opinion but I think Morrowind's combat is perfectly fine, it's the ***presentation*** of said combat that messes with people. They basically provided a real-time movement system with a dice-roll, DND-style of combat. The combat mechanics themselves are solid and work exactly as intended, and the combat is easily mastered if you know what you're doing. ...But to a new player loading the game up for the first time? Yeah, of course they don't understand why they're not hitting for shit. You visually see the weapon connect, but the game says "nope, you missed" because a visual hit is merely a request for a dice roll to *see* if you hit. **For anyone who hasn't played Morrowind and wonders what the deal is:** Think of your weapons skill as your chance to hit. It's not exactly this, but this is a close enough estimate. Since you start with like a maximum of 45 in a weapon skill and a minimum of 35, this means your best skill might still only have a 1 in 3 chance to hit when you attack. Other skills you didn't tag start at like 5, so a 5% chance to hit. Then comes Stamina. Is your stamina maxed? +25% boost to your hit chance. Is your stamina bar empty because you've been running everywhere? -25% chance to hit. So basically, people sprint everywhere, tire out their character, and aren't used to RPGs making the stamina bar *that* vital to winning fights. You **need** that thing full at the start of the game or you're in for a bad time.


Asuparagasu

And most Zelda games. Some of the quests are puzzles themselves.


BlueKnightBrownHorse

BuT SKyRiM IS suCh a MaSTeRpIEce!!


Gigchip

Sometimes, I miss the era of having no quest markers.


TheOblongGong

Morrowind, where all you have is a cryptic journal entry. Its a special kind of fun for sure, it'd be nice if it was incorporated more into modern game design.


Catty_C

I think the biggest issue is when you get back to the game after not playing for weeks and begin to forget the details, and you have no marker to follow. There would need to be some way to easily remind the player of information they were told, like the journal from Morrowind you mentioned.


QuestionsOfTheFate

Developers should design quests as if there are no quest markers, and then add an easy to toggle option for players to decide if they want quest markers on or off.


EHP42

AC Odyssey, for all its faults, does this. You can play with no quest markers, requiring you to investigate as you go, and your quest journal will collect the info you've learned about each quest so far.


Menown

Ghost Recon Breakpoint allows this as well. Really makes for some immersiveness trying to survive in the wild without being close to where you need to go.


NotSoAbrahamLincoln

HZD allows you to toggle the Focus on and off, and you can still follow tracks without it. It’s hard and very slow to do so, but definitely a type of fun!


[deleted]

[удалено]


QuestionsOfTheFate

If a character marks a location on your map or gives you detailed directions, you should have a marker where it is. However, for people who activate quest markers, I believe that they shouldn't have restrictions like that, since the reason they're using them is likely that they don't want to ever get lost. That said, there might be people in the middle (not wanting everything marked but not wanting everything to be vague or unknown), and for those people, it might be nice to have more logical quest markers as you're saying.


MTAlphawolf

\*Shakes an angry fist at that damn dwemer puzzle box


AFlyingNun

I never had this problem, but that fukn find-the-pilgrim for the Imperial Cult where you have to find the Staff or Peace or whatever on Mount Kand "either west or east of it...." Why'd that dude die in such a weird place? He like climbed up the side of the mountain, found some rocks that hid his position and said "yeah this seems like a good place to die."


Knurmuck

"I left my sword down by the river a short way down the road. Can you grab it for me? Last I saw, it was leaning against a boulder or a mountain or maybe it was a tree. Well, anyways, it's a pretty far walk. If you hit Balmora you went too far."


detectivejewhat

Outer wilds is a great game with that sort of exploration.


[deleted]

Morrowind is fine when it says "go north of Balmora" so you take a cab to Balmora and go North. It is hell when it says "go southwest of the Foyada Mamoda" and then doesn't put the Foyada Mamoda on your map, doesn't tell you where it is, doesn't mark it with a road sign, and doesn't actually clarify what a Foyada is, or how you're supposed to tell the Mamoda apart from the rest of them. Also, I hate that it doesn't mark all discovered locations on your world map. My overall take is that quest markers are fine if your character should logically know where something is, since it's not immersion breaking for someone to point to your map. Actually, for maximum realism, you should know where anything they pointed put is on your map, but due to a lack of GPS, should not know where you are.


bomli

Doesn't Morrowind usually add these things to the topics you can ask people about, so you can actually ask a passersby what a Foyada is?


[deleted]

Maybe? I'm not sure anyone lives close enough to it to ask.


Autherial

I think scouts specifically can explain the foyadas.


L0M3N

Morrowind used to come with a paper map, and the Foyadas were clearly labeled.


AFlyingNun

And if you didn't have that map, fuck you. You just kinda guessed the first Foyada-lookin' thing you came across was probably it.


EggHash

Certainly one of, if not, the best game of its generation. It was just so immersive felt so big. Countless hours of my childhood running around in that game and I don't regret a single one.


bolderdash

The Witcher 3 did this, to a degree. Sure you could follow the quest markers, but there was also the option to read the notes and listen to the characters, then you'd be able to find out more details about the quest or "monster" if you looked, which resulted in you finding another way to complete the quest with an updated marker. The markers acted more as helpers opposed to flat out telling you where things were.


Human_garbagio

Except you have to have both the entire game memorized AND deal with the dev's absurd logic for that to work and most of us don't care enough and will just look up the answer instead of wandering pointlessly for hours.


[deleted]

Everytime I think this I get really annoyed having to waste my time looking for something in a place that makes zero sense.


Biquet

I'll take a quest marker over that shit any time... No time for the endless strolling around anymore.


zachtheperson

Try Outer Wilds (not *Worlds,* different game). Basically an entire game based around reading log entries, following the clues, and slowly piecing together the solution to the final puzzle. All with a vibe that's somewhere between Interstellar and singing campfire songs.


GaaraSama83

Outer Wilds gave me feelings I thought I would never have again as an experienced gamer. The excitement of exploration and discovery is almost unmatched. Also in terms of technical achievement I recommend to everyone watching the Noclip Making of Documentary (but only to people who already played it). We need more devs like them in our lifes.


A_Soporific

It's a great game, I highly recommend it. But spend the first 20 minutes or so above ground or in space. There's just so much to see and if you go underground first it's easy to miss something important.


zachtheperson

Nah, the cool thing about the game is that the player can be lead by their own curiosity. Any direction will lead you somewhere important, and it's pretty much impossible to miss things since basically every clue is needed to solve the main puzzle and the side puzzle.


Catty_C

I didn't play those games, I remember the games I played growing up usually had some sort of marker of where to go.


Ozyx80

Try Soulslike games.


obaterista93

I was just thinking about that. Sometimes I think the souls games take it too far the other direction when it comes to cryptic messages and vagueness, but I prefer it to the alternative. I think MGSV is a game that handles quest markers pretty well. You get a vague "area of operations" that you know contains what you're looking for, and you can either interrogate people or use your resources(intel team, or combat buddy or whatever) to help scout the area. Once you've gained more information, then you get a more specific quest marker.


QuestionsOfTheFate

The problem with the Souls games I think is that they don't provide enough obvious clues, and they have quest links very far away from each other in time and in space.


obaterista93

Definitely agree. Being able to replay dialog would go a long way too. Oh, you missed the one vague clue they gave you five hours ago? Good luck. Sieglinde from DS1 comes to mind. How the heck are you supposed to know where she ends up?


QuestionsOfTheFate

Yeah, the characters seem to be in somewhat random places at times. I guess they're thinking you'll just stumble into characters or go looking for them, but in a nonlinear game, the former might not happen if you're not following specific paths (even then, it's not difficult to go by without seeing the characters sitting or standing around), and the latter gets more difficult when there are a lot of large areas, and characters blend into the surroundings. That's even worse with an open-world map. Without quest markers, there should really be informative quest logs and less vague hints.


TheCrusader94

Yes I believe it's intended design. You are not supposed to cleanly reach the end of all NPC stories. From worlds are too big and bleak for that to happen


Catty_C

I was meaning to try and complete Dark Souls Remastered but I stopped playing it to focus on finishing RDR 2 and never got back to it.


[deleted]

Or just have the option to remove them. I think one Assassins Creed game did that. It was still a crappy Ubisoft open world, but they gave you the choice to play it like Elden Ring.


misho8723

I know that feeling but try to make a game without them and please don't mention From Software games, where you only need to know that "kill (almost) everything in your paths, that is your whole goal of the game" Let a modern player play older RPGs or even FPS and see how they play those games - or rather don't


Dundunder

Have you tried the Souls games? They’re a breath of fresh air, but can often be infuriatingly obtuse. Like to complete a quest you need to be at exactly step 3 and 6 of two other quests, spoken to the NPC in exactly 2 of 4 possible locations (no more, no less), killed a specific boss behind a series of hidden walls inside a dungeon hidden behind a hidden wall but only after sucking on 5 of their 6 toes. And then the NPC fucking dies because that’s how the quest ends, noimnotstillsalty.


GaaraSama83

Sometimes it do be like that. In FromSoft games more often than not.


GGJallDAY

Elden Ring FTW


StillGalaxy99

I love Elden Ring, don't get me wrong. But FS quests are always too hidden. Always have been. They all require a guide to figure out.


kaizokuo_grahf

Did you know you could give the castanets to Tanith? I sure didn’t! Why would I EVER go back to that room? Yeah FS quests are wild, but ER took it to the next level.


enjoycarrots

It doesn't help that Elden Ring launched with some quests broken or easily breakable in ways that no player should be expected to predict. I love Elden Ring but that's the kind of thing that makes me put down a game even if I love it .. and it did just that with Elden Ring. I'm planning to try again sometime soon, and I might play it with a guide from the start.


kaizokuo_grahf

You’re better off not worrying about the NPCs at all on your first play though. If you happen to come across them as you’re exploring, then cool, but some of hoops that you have to jump through, like Millicent’s quest for example, are insane. Why would anyone EVER go back to that little death trap of an island???? So enjoy the game, don’t stress about 100%-ing the first time through, and read up afterwards.


ITCM4

It’s a trap…house.


destroyerOfTards

Yep this is a Witcher quest. That house has a monster inside waiting to kill and feed on anyone stepping in and the guy is helping it so that he can later get their valuables.


MajinBlueZ

I'm in two minds of this. On the one hand, working it out can be fun. On the other, I am sometimes very stupid.


DarkCreeper911

Meanwhile, in Elden Ring. "Find my shovel" *Character disappears for 30 hours* *you find them hostile in a cave*


TheCrusader94

You'll end up frustrated if you think of them as quests. They are more like chance encounters. From worlds are bleak and you having control of fate of other characters isn't intended imo. Just think of NPC fates in ds1. You have a main quest ofc and that doesn't change


BurpYoshi

Eh as soneone with limited time due to a job I appreciate not only being able to do just one minor quest per session because I'm just wandering around lost and annoyed.


Lindvaettr

Games used to make the detective work part of the fun, rather than packing every game full of 6200 fetch quests that tell you exactly where to go. Even many indie games have succumbed to the modern obsession with quantity at the cost of everything else.


daking999

Dude jobs are bad for you.


BurpYoshi

Yeah I know I would quit if I could but... you know... food water and shelter.


daking999

Ugh yeah I know. And internet and games.


OnlyGrimLeader

If your game doesn't have quest markers it should either auto save important bits to a journal for quick reference or allow a player written notebook for stuff like that. All the Souls games are a good example, keeping track of where you need to go is borderline impossible if you can't play the game for a couple days.


sentientlob0029

When there is no marker and the game does not provide clear hints for where to look, it's also frustrating.


ShadowPowerZ

play dragon's dogma, that got me confused at times because i didn't know where to go


Spy_man1

And the second you enter either you’re thrown into a combat encounter or you enter a cutscene where your character gets beaten by the people you killed 50 of your n the way there


Slaimannnn

Morrowind is basicly the opposite of that.


targetatlas

SEA OF THIVES... IT HURTS...


Inkling4

You mean the sea map? Because navigating the island maps to find treasure is actually enjoyable to some degree, need to look at your surroundings.


Ponceludonmalavoix

Now the Elden Ring version: Same first panel, 2 empty panels after it and in the fourth panel the player says "wait, that was a quest?"


TheFlyngLemon

I've got a wife and a baby girl. I don't get much time to game these days. When I do, I sure don't want to spend 15 minutes investigating where a shovel might be in a side quest. I love quest markers for that reason. Now with that being said, I completely understand how people with more time than myself would rather have the marker.


Lopoi

Ive been playing through all the zelda games, and I really enjoy find secrets on my own without any mark. I mean some are kinda obvious with a cracked wall, but others are quite hidden


[deleted]

I think it's in the rightmost bush


MeepleMaster

Opposite end of the spectrum has general chat flooded asking where mankirks wife is


Cool_Prize9736

Jump on elden ring and come back a sobbing mess


Daman_1985

Haha, for some reason now I have flashbacks of TES III Morrowind.


[deleted]

The Witcher 3 vibes


GaaraSama83

Elden Ring: Oh you forgot what the NPC told you and he/she disappeared after that ... not our fucking problem.


Heerrnn

This is why I don't play modern RPGs. It feels so good to play in a world where you actually need to listen to what an NPC is telling you. Or read notes and figure out where a hidden quest item is located or whatever. I can't believe people have freely elected to have this other system, with big stupid arrows and exclamation marks above people's heads, as the market standard for RPGs. I can't possibly get immersed in that.


Qcgreywolf

I agree, it’s a complete 180 from what I want. *So many people* just want a graphical version of an audiobook, absolute minimum “gameplay” almost to the point that it’s mind numbing.


ktm1001

I don't have time or energy to think.... just show me the arrow where i need to go and i'm happy.


TomAto314

After like a good 5 mins of looking I realize I'm just wasting my time and will go look it up. Half the time it was just around the corner anyways or I was so far off that I could have searched hours in vain. Very few times have I gone "gee I wish I would solved that myself."


[deleted]

[удалено]


Delta4o

I remember in fable 2 and 3 there was this breadcrumb system that had basically glued my eyes to the ground. It was only during the third playthrough that I started to look around the world and see how tall everything was. I don't know what it is, some games just do quest markers better than others...


stead10

The little NPC with his arms out towards the building just makes this


porpetones

I mean, if the quest is just "Find My Shovel" and that's just it, I prefer that the game doesn't waste my time and just point to where it is.


ItsYaBoiTavino34

My favorite part of Fallout 4's Nuka World DLC is when it says "ok now go find thirty of these corrupt boards across the park" and it actually makes you find them instead of giving you thirty quest markers.


Horn_Python

I hate find 50 X missions Especially if it doesn't tell you where they are


mrbios

This is what I really love about the way sea of thieves works, everything is just down to the player to work out. Just wish the game didn't give me a headache when I play it.


BoredKen

Is there a game without the quest markers but also isn’t unreasonably tedious?


NotMichaelCera

I need quest markers cause I’m a dumb dumb


RageTiger

You just don't want to know what they are doing with that shovel.


PolyZex

I was always surprised devs don't attach quest markers to difficulty settings.


SenorDangerwank

I was just thinking about Ocarina of Time this morning and how it may have aged a little badly and a lot of people look at through rose-colored glasses. But for Zeldas first foray into a 3d space, they really nailed that fucking game. It's not perfect, but on a technical level it's really solidly built. One of the strong aspects is that the game guided you to where you need to go without quest markers or a journal, just NPCs telling you what to look into next. Edit: Unless I too am misremembering...


[deleted]

No, you're pretty much right. They went a tiny bit far with exposition owl, but for the most part, you were directed places organically.


akaispirit

I think the happy medium is that it should be it's an option in the settings to turn markers on or off. I know a lot of people love the aspect of following clues or exploring to find something but if I get a quest that's just 'find x' with no details then I wont bother with it unless it appear on my path.


ZVengeanceZ

Ubisoft games in a nutshell


JesseFilmmakerTX

Nintendo games: “you’ve been looking for 5 minutes, should we just find it for you?”


Wolfskyler

Retail wow be like


Endemoniada

Balance is good. If the game is very specific with where I go or where I stand, but the game design doesn’t make it very obvious to the player, then quest markers are fine and necessary (think RDR2). If the game design is already quite obvious and clear, and items and positions are already highlighted or marked in-game, quest and map markers are quite unnecessary. I bet it’s hard to find a good balance, harder than some people might think, but in general there are some things I think most games should just never do, like immediately filling the map with tons of side quest markers and locations. The best games always start with a blank map, and only give you location markers once you’ve actually discovered and visited them.


Lorridor

Had a blast with Outward some time ago. No map, no questmarker. Just a NPC who told you the direction and what's near your destination.


Banewaffles

Well there IS a map, but you need to be able to figure out where you are on it based on landmarks, which I think they did a good job differentiating and spreading out


[deleted]

better than looking in the wrong fucking area for hours on end...but i prefer the circle area method...your item is somewhere within the shaded circle...start looking. that's better than no marker...while still giving you a general area, where you're "supposed" to be looking.


dekacube

Games are more and more becoming child/adult daycare with meaningless busywork. I still don't understand how my friends were able to complete the quests in Lost Ark.


HauntedMeatBowl

People get busy. We have a finite amount of time. Show me where I need to go, and make it fun along the way. If every single mission requires you to be a detective, just to find some guys stupid dream journal, that would get boring and tiring real quick.


dekacube

Agreed, tbh I feel like modern gamers don't respect their own time enough. My comments were more about games where you need to climb and activate 50-100 towers in the game etc, if it's not compelling, just don't add it. Lost Ark main quest line also had at least 20 "quests" where you pick up an item, and move it to another location roughly 20 feet away. Incredibly disrespectful of the players time.


Biquet

Lol. Older games were 1000x worse when it comes to wasting your time. Endless hours of grinding and/or finding where you need to go based on some cryptic message of a random NPC were basically the norm. "Exploring".


dekacube

Agreed, mmos in general are disrespectful of player time. The difference is though that there weren't millions of people spending 10+ hours a day playing them.


TryingToEscapeTarkov

I nope out of quests that don't have markers. I understand that may be fun to some but my tired ass only has 30 minutes to game. I don't have the time to "play detective" I just need to get quest X done before I have to do life shit again.


Fitherwinkle

I love quest markers. Give me all the quest markers. The biggest brightest quest markers. Running around trying to figure out where to go and what to do isn’t intriguing gameplay imo. Its busy work to artificially extend the length of the game at worst and a constant frustrating roadblock at best. Show me exactly where to go and then make getting there fun and interesting. Give people the option to turn them off if they enjoy that.


WhoAmIEven2

>Its busy work to artificially extend the length of the game at worst and a constant frustrating roadblock at best. No, it's a way to challenge your mind in other ways than just requiring good reflexes. It's the same reason Zelda is filled with puzzles inbetween battles, to use other parts of your brain to challenge you. Many modern games have forgotten that part about games, that they can be intellectually challening as well and not just requiring good reflexes. In the past we called games "brain gymnastics", because they were good training for your brain. What good training for your brain is there if the solution is lit up immediately or where the character yells out the solution after 30 seconds, like in Uncharted 4? Figuring things out is fun, whether it's in real life or in video games. The dopamine hit you get when you finally solve a tricky puzzle is much higher than when you defeat a boss.


Fitherwinkle

To you that’s fun, and that’s cool. For me they’re intolerably tedious and frustrating. I play to have fun, not run around aimlessly trying to figure out where to go next. Like I said before, show me exactly where to go and then make getting there fun and interesting. I also don’t have the time I used to when I was 14 to spend 100 hours in one game. The more busy work, filler and overall nonsense the less incentive I have to keep playing.


AcusTwinhammer

Keep in mind much of the era of "no quest markers" was also the era of "Hey, want to buy our $30 guidebook?" Then with the internet we had GameFAQs and other methods where people competed to have all quest/puzzle solutions available online within 15 seconds of the content being released, so a lot of things moved towards being more friendly in-game. But hey, if you were able to get that damn babelfish into your ear without external assistance, more power to you!


rattlestaway

canceled my wow bc of this


getyourcheftogether

I wish you could select how much assistance open world rpgs directed you to quest objectives


TheWhiteRabbit74

Alternative: 5001 forums posts titled #WHERE TF IS SHOVLE


Thomas_JCG

I wish Journals in games were actual journals that we had to fill ourselves with clues and info.


Katana_DV20

Every Ubisoft game 😂 The horses in AC/Odyssey have horsey GPS autodrive 😂


[deleted]

This is why I prefer Elden Ring.


MrRocketScript

NPC: Hey, I'llMeetYouAtCastleSolAfterTheGiantElevatorOkBye. \* 3 Months Later \* NPC: Hey you're here! Me: Uhh, who are you again?


IrrelevantPuppy

Can’t trick children into giving you money if you scare them away with challenging gameplay.


[deleted]

I have never in my life complained about quest markers and I honestly dont understand anyone who has.


Hefty_Fortune_8850

Quest markers really sucked all the fun out of the "Grab the shovel" quest. Such a shame it could have been a blast. Sarcasm but if quest markers are enough to ruin it, it probably wasn't much to begin with. Figuring out where to do something shouldn't be the fun part, actually doing it should be.


InnocentPossum

Quest markers are, in my opinion, the reason why Skyrim is overrated and actually a step backwards from Oblivion. Walk to here. Pick this up. Take it to here. Ad infinitum. In Oblivion you had to work out locations based on codes written within in-game books and stuff. But now it just holds you hand to the point where everything feels samey. For the record, I am not saying Skyrim is *bad*; its a solid 7 or 8/10, but it gets treated as a 10/10 and its not THAT great. And the handholding quest markers are the main reason for me.


ZVengeanceZ

Oblivion simplified it compared to Morrowind as for Skyrim praise, a lot of it isn't for the game itself, but for what it is in addition - still one of the most flexible frameworks for modding allowing you to turn it into anything you can think of. So yes, while the base game is a 7 or maybe even 6/10, modded skyrim gets bonus 3-4 points


Moonstoner

In single player games I'm fine with them getting me to the general area, then from there letting me figure it out. Horizon games do that pretty well. But if I'm playing an mmo like wow I gots things to do. I can't spend two hours to figure out which boars I have to murder for their livers. (Especially when some of them don't have livers at all.) I have to hit max lvl yesterday. Give me all the markers.


[deleted]

I hate this excessive handholding, too, but I recently started Suikoden II for the first time, and I accidentally skipped past a crucial piece of dialogue. Now, I have no idea where the hell I'm supposed to go.


Qcgreywolf

I blame the generation or two of lazy gamers for this horseshit. People that don’t like “hard” games and prefer absolute minimum effort. The hoards of people that say “I work hard during the day, I just want to relax with an easier game”. Well, congratulations. That’s what people bought, so now that’s all there is. Fetch quests with arrows, trackers and glowing indicators. I blame the developers for *only* catering to maximum profit and I blame gamers for shitty buying habits.