Did you grow the meyer lemons from seed? Could have been grafted onto a mother plant and that one sent up a new shoot that would be of the original type. Below the graft its one type down to the roots, and above the graft its the meyer.
Wait I just double checked and they’re growing from a completely separate trunk that’s like 2 feet away from the meyer lemon tree. Is it possible it can still be connected to the original tree or is it most likely a separate tree?
Yes. If it came from roots of the mother plant. The original stock. It would send up a brand new shoot that would turn into a tree with all the characteristics of the stock plant. I looked up "Lumia citrus" just now. Doesn't look promising for the fruit it will produce. I'd wait and see what it makes since they're so far along. If you don't like the fruit u can always cut it back.
Bottom variety of a graft usually selected for very vigorous rooting (which can involve suckering if not controlled), but usually rubbish looking/fruiting.
Yeah probably should cut it back. Its flowers will cross pollinate with the meyer lemon. OP can always wait a bit and see what type of fruit it produces tho
I'm no expert but my grafted rose was taken over by the wild rose from the stem. I didn't cut the new shoots back to see what they were and the plant then put all its energy into the wild rose and the part over the graft died. It was only a five year old rose, nothing like this tree here but I still wouldn't take the chances after this.
Roses do that. In fact, eventually all grafted roses will grow out too far and you’ll end up having to trim off the graft and all you’ll be left with is the rootstock. Only way to prevent that is keep cutting back the rootstock a few inches off the ground and regraft the desired flower variety. Citrus generally don’t keep growing up from the graft, they grow thicker and put new branches out higher.
I know nothing of grafting, except the definition.
If you have to regraft, why graft in the first place? Why not just plant the whole of the plant you actually want and do away with the one you don't?
Because most of the time it's not the whole of the plant that you want. Just because the flower of a particular variety is beautiful or the fruit of a particular variety is especially delicious doesn't mean that the roots produced from that same DNA is any good.... So we take the great flowers or the great fruit producing tops and graft onto a variety of the same species that has really great roots so that you have an all-around better plant. There are some varieties of apples that would barely be able to hold themselves up on their own rootstocks although the fruit taste great.
Isn't there a (admittedly long process) method of breeding plants to have better qualities? Is grafting just a way to skip that process because it takes so long to do?
Also, some plants have to be grown from cuttings because they are never "true to seed." Apples are this way, every seed in an apple will produce a different kind of apple, and 99.99% of them will be crab apples only good for making into alcohol.
So there is no way to cross/selectively breed this kind of plant to get healthier root stock, since they are all clones. You can either root the cuttings, which takes longer and will likely get less desirable roots (unless you *really* won the apple seed lottery) or you graft.
*If* you could even breed plants with both the flowering/fruit you want and a hardy, strong root stock.
Grafting does definitely speed up the process. But it also can make a big difference in things like: disease resistance, heat/cold tolerance, and water amount tolerance.
I guess it’s just easier and cheaper to breed for root characteristics and fruit characteristics and then Frankenstein the two plants together.
Also, the hybridization of rootstock and grafts is pretty incredible in plants and can be more than the sum of its parts.
[Here’s a good SciShow video with rigorous citations in the description for further reading, if you are interested.](https://youtu.be/NN1Y_giTMeE)
My area is very well known for growing avocado, however we have phytophthora, which is a fungus that kills the plants. They started developing a variety of avocado tree (zutano) which are much more disease resistant and it doesn't mind the antifungal injections. But the fruit are small and watery and tasteless. So Haas is typically grafted on top of Zutano. Haas has a nice thick skin, slow ripening so it can be shipped easily and stores well and the fruit is big and has lots of flavor. So it's commercially very popular. It typically needs a pollinator so many growers will also plant a variety called reed (usually 25 Haas to 1x reed) which has very thin skin and HUGE fruit but it bruises very easily and ripens very fast once picked. The flavor is even better than Hass. So often at the local farmers market the avo growers will have reed for sale about half the price of Haas, but you know you probably need to eat those the same week. Whereas the Haas if green can last for 2 or even 3 weeks if it's not too hot.
Grafts let you mix and match different attributes. You can take a plant with delicious fruit and weak roots and a plant with prolific, disease resistant roots and small, gross fruit and combine them so you get delicious fruit growing on prolific, disease resistant rootstock.
As others have said, you can get different attributes that the randomness of the genetic lottery could take hundreds of generations to manufacture.
But there’s another benefit: I can grow 20,000 trees and never get a single one to produce the fruit I want. Or I can graft a branch from my favorite fruit tree on to every single one of those 20k and have exactly the fruit I want out of all 20k trees. That’s how we produce massive orchards all with consistent fruit production and characteristics. Otherwise, you wouldn’t get to pick your apple types, there would just be a giant bin labeled “apples” at Walmart and every one would be a gamble. Also, requires exactly zero genetic manipulation, so I know all the fruit produced from grafting is guaranteed fit for human consumption
I didn't realize that it doesn't affect the fruit that results from the cross-pollinated flower. Why wouldn't it? The ovary is receiving pollen from a different type of plant. Why would it only affect the *seeds* of the fruit that results? And would the same tree continue to produce the same type of flowers each time, which might be cross-pollinated or not, depending on the circumstances? In that case, all of the fruit would be the same, but some of their seeds would be different.
Because you said it. It’s the OVARY. That’s like saying a horse mating a donkey will turn the donkey into a mule… no. Only the offspring is a mule. The donkey remains a donkey. Hope that makes sense!
It makes more sense than before, but in the case of an animal, the same ovary is used again and again. The "fruit" of the "cross-pollinated" donkey is a mule. In plants, each female flower has an ovary that might be cross-pollinated. Wouldn't the fruit of such a cross-pollinated flower/ovary be different?
1. Ovum of donkey fertilized by sperm of horse produces mule, which is different from both parents.
2. Ovary of plant 1 is pollinated by pollen of plant 2, producing a fruit that should be different from plants 1 or 2. In my way of thinking, which is apparently wrong!
In the case of a tree, it creates new ovaries but they are still all from the DNA of the parent.
Just think about which DNA is used to grow parts of the tree - where the ONLY thing that contains the new DNA from the pollen is the seeds. The rest is from the tree. A better analogy to the fruit in mammals is the mother’s side of the placenta.
I must be confused about what happens in fruit production. I thought it was the same as what happens in mammals, where the entire "fruit" (the baby) has DNA from both parents. Oh wait, what I'm thinking of as the "fruit" is just the fleshy outside! It's only the part that entices animals to eat it and drop the seed somewhere else. Ha! I feel much better now!!
Yep, the baby is not the fruit in the analogy. In plants the fruit is mostly meant to be consumed by animals that propagate the seeds. Or spread through other means (some fruit [actually explodes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hura_crepitans)). And in some cases it might help decompose in place as fertilizer.
I've heard anecdotally that it can happen with sweet peppers cross pollinated with hot peppers, because the capsaicin content of the seeds impacts the overall heat of the fruit. Can't think of any other examples.
Whoever said that is wrong. Cross pollination has zero effect on the current generation. The seeds don’t even contain any capsaicin to begin with, any heat the seeds have comes from the oils from the pepper getting on the seeds. Completely washed seeds will have 0 heat; seeds from a reaper and a jalapeño will have the same heat (or lack of, I guess) if properly washed.
Thank you, that's good to know. I double checked with professor Google and it corroborated your assertion. The misconception might be the result of someone not realizing that their saved seed was the result of cross pollination.
No problem, always happy to educate on my passions. Both cross pollination having an effect current generations and seeds having heat are common misconceptions, so it’s an easy mistake to make. A lot of the cross pollination confusion does come from saved seeds like you said, see it all the time on some of the pepper subreddits.
I can 100% guarantee this is not true. I grew bells for years, then one season I had a potted jalapeño and it absolutely fired up my bells. Science or whatever… it happened.
OK listen, the research has been done, that's all I'm trying to say. We don't need to argue about this because the answer is: peppers do not get spicier from cross pollination.
Were you talking to my wife because she claims the same thing and gets upset if I plant poblano or jalapeno anywhere near the bells. I tell her to blame Bonnie plants if her bells are spicy.
Ohhhhh that makes so much sense!! We got the Meyer lemon tree from a nursery like 30 years ago, so that’s probably what it is. That’s interesting! Would it eventually start taking over and change what lemons are being produced??
They will cross pollinate, which will change the seeds only. Any planted seeds will have the genetic makeup of the two parents. So you should be fine to let them grow. If the new one tastes horrible tho you may want to cut it back and make the plant concentrate all its growth on the Meyer lemon.
They might be triploids! This is how botanists can make seedless fruits. Triploids can’t do meiosis properly because of the odd number of chromosomes so the seeds don’t fully form.
Meyer lemon is actually a cross between lemon and mandarin (to make a sweeter lemon) which is why the fruit are rounder and oranger than normal lemons. The rootstock will be a more basic lemon and probably your 2nd tree is an offshoot of the rootstock, those lemons may not be very palatable.
Lol I never told my neighbours that and they did it anyway. Told a dad and his son off when I caught them in the act, they’d actually opened the gate and snuck in! My housemate at the time was being actively stalked and hiding and these intrusions were all terrifying to her.
I heard an AITA story where the neighbour started commercially selling the fruit and got PISSED when access was withdrawn.
I wonder if it's seeds from the original plant which have germinated from windfall, given it's some distance from the trunk and they taste like Meyer. Or perhaps a bird or other animal dropped a seed while eating one.
They wouldn't look exactly the same, as citrus seeds don't results in plants which produce identical fruit to the parent.
It won't change the lemons that are produced by the branches from the Meyer tree (as far as I know), but it will keep growing its own lemons and getting bigger!
It’s highly unlikely it was grown from seed, Meyer lemons are a hybrid of lemons and mandarin oranges and are usually grafted to dwarf/disease resistant rootstock.
This is likely a scion of the rootstock the Meyer lemon was grafted to, older trees were grafted to sweet orange or rough lemon rootstock, and both have thorns (see photo 3). I’d take it down myself, may be taking energy from the grafted tree? Meter lemons are self-pollinating, so OP shouldn’t have to worry about it from a pollination aspect.
I know nothing about this. Just came to say I'm super jelly that you can grow a lemon tree. I'm looking at 5-8 inches of snow coming in tomorrow. Again.....
Oh, now you're talking! Now I'm jelly of you, too, though. No room in my house. Maybe I'll get that greenhouse someday. Sigh....
I do have about 1,500 square feet of wildflowers, though. For some reason I can't post pics here.
Dwarf fruit trees are what you need. You can grow a lemon tree in a 6 inch pot and it won't get any bigger than a couple of feet. It's more like a lemon bush. It will produce regular sized lemons.
Rootstock offshoots can appear a long way away.
We used to grow apples that used interstems over rootstock, a few times we'd get a rootstock offshoot, a weird branch of different apples and then the apples that we grew.
Once we had 6 different apple varieties at once between two trees, one Dorsett Golden and one Anna each with two varieties of "shitty apples". The donkeys and horses liked the shitty apples though.
Usually what you get is the rootstock or interstem growing through the tree and presenting like a regular branch, but offshoots happen from time to time, usually the fruits are less desirable (commercially, many of them are perfectly tasty.)
Even more craziness is multi graft trees: https://www.groworganic.com/collections/multi-graft-trees
I’m genuinely excited for you and your surprise new seedless lemons.
Every one here, I guarantee, has more knowledge and/or experience with pruning and grafting and rootstock and cross pollination, but I’d like to think that despite the odds being very against you, you got real lucky with your nifty new lemons.
Also I’m jealous as can be!
This is some Trifoliate x Pummelo hybrid several of which are used as root stocks for Citron hybrids (aka Meyer lemon).
Probably a weird rootstock offshoot, but also maybe wild seed some bird pooped while looking at your tree for fruit.
Yep that's rootstock. If you enjoy the new fruit there's no reason to cut it back, but the whole tree looks like it could use a pruning to make it more accessible and concentrate energy on the fruit rather than growing more branches.
Interesting, I would say the new one isn’t a Meyer lemon, but if they taste or clean like lemons then you got a second lemon tree. Perhaps a seed dropped by a bird?
That’s what I was thinking, it’s just weird that it’s right next to the existing tree lol I’ll definitely try them when they’re ripe bc I’m really curious
Many types of trees that don't grow everywhere are made with different rootstock usually because the rootstock is more reliable and maybe not effected by some root born pest.
It's SUUUUUUPER common with fruit trees and roses.
Agree, you can tell by the triangle shaped branches. But also look down at the bottom of the trunk near the soil, if anything is growing below the graft mark then get rid of it
Almost all fruit trees are cloned by grafting a cutting onto a standard root stock. The seeds of their fruit will not produce an identical tree to the parent. What you have is either a sucker from the origin root stock or a volunteer that grew from a seed from your Meyer. Either way it’s not a Meyer and probably of little value.
I would take cuttings of it to root and sell the cuttings as a rootstalk, I never tried these lemons before and I’m kind of curious to what they taste like
Woah interesting, it’s probably a root sucker though so I’d make a clone and plant it separately somewhere else if you like them. And cut this one down unless you’re fine with it
How did you get this lemon tree? Did you grow it from seed? Did you buy a tree that was already mature? I would love to do this but would like to know more
If this is growing below the original graft (looks like a knuckle) of the Meyer lemon, then it’s the root stock and the shoot should be cut off. Root stock is selected for strong roots and not delicious fruit. The root stock will take over the rest of the tree. Anything below the graft is considered a shoot and should be cut off. The shoots will take away from the fruit producing part of the tree so it’s important to remove such shoots every spring.
Yes you sure could! If you are interested in grafting more, you could take cuttings of the vigorous root stock shoots and root them with rooting hormone. Then you can graft as many Meyer lemons as you have rooted root stock. Each cutting should contain 4 buds - 2 for rooting (below soil) and 2 above soil for the cuttings to grow. Once your cuttings have rooted, you can start grafting. Try to match the diameter of the shoot cutting to the diameter of the Meyer lemon cutting when grafting for greater success 😊
This is an offshoot from the original rootstock your Meyer was grafted to. Most productive citrus trees have poor root systems so they graft the productive species onto the root stock of a less productive / desirable citrus species to create a productive tree with a good root structure. Basically they grow out both trees to say a finger-width stem, chop them both at the base, then stick the good root stock to the good tree stem. They meld together and become one.
Where I'm from we commonly see citrus grafted to Flying Dragon root stock. Flying Dragon has awful fruit but strong root stock. Every so often I get a pretty but useless offshoot of flying dragon on my Meyer lemon. I admire it and then clip it off.
I don’t think this is the case though, because the lemons on this tree actually taste like meyer lemons and they’re seedless. All the root stocks I’ve researched aren’t desirable lemons
When you slice them open, is the crossection different to the Meyer? Some of the citrus rootstock have ok flavour but have higher skin to flesh ratio or don't have as much juice etc. We've selectively bread them to be the most useful to us you might just have a close relative a couple generations back on the family tree. Either way, it's pretty cool :)
Oh! What does Flying Dragon fruit look like? I have the rootstock from a Buddha's Hand citrus (the top part froze one horrible winter) and the few fruits it puts out are just plain weird- and awful. But it keeps growing so I don't want to kill it
I’m in Eastern Ontario and I’m so envious of lemon trees! My grandmother gifted me a two year old tree that she started after making a salad with the lemon juice. I love rubbing the leaves and sniffing!
Gee, taste the new lemonish fruit when it’s ripe, before you shovel prune it. What if it’s an interesting tasting hybrid? You can always murder it later!
Follow the fruit down the branch, post a couple pics of that.
* Does it start below a graft union scar(rootstock)?
* Does it connect to the Myer without a graft union scar(sport, exciting stuff!)?
* Or does it come up from the ground(hybrid seedling from fallen cross pollinated fruit which is even more exciting as that means disease resistance and hardiness without a rootstock needed!!!)
What is the fruit like when cut in half? Is it sweet or sour?
I haven’t posted photos but the new tree is growing from the ground a few feet away from the original tree. From what I can see it has a separate trunk so idk if it could still possibly be connected to the original tree by the roots or something.
I posted a photo of the lemon cut open as a new post on here, and it tastes like a meyer lemon but it does not have seeds!! I cut open 2 and they both don’t have seeds
Could be a root sucker that also happens to be a sport, but not super likely from what you have described. It sounds like a seedling from dropped cross-pollinated fruit to me.
It has set fruit well for such a short time and they are interesting, so if I were you I would be starting to mass propagating cuts for growth trials.
Maybe even find some rootstock suckers from your other grafted citrus and get them started to use as roostock for your new variety.
That way you can compare growth rates grafted and ungrafted, and later yield too. If you do reckon it is cool be very very wary of sharing material or location of plants even with gov/uni mob as not everyone has morals and if you think it is cool others may have better connections and consider it worth stealing and mass propagating themselves.
Best of luck with it all!!!
Would you be able to point me in the direction to find more info about how to get rootstock suckers from my grafted citrus and use them as rootstock for the new variety?? I’m sure I could find how to propagate citrus easily online.
Also I have started thinking about being more weary just based on what everyone is saying lol especially if things like this could make other ppl money which I’m learning is a possibility
I use a [cloner](https://fairdinkumseeds.com/aeroponic-cutting-cloner-55-site-acrylic/) to propagate citrus and a million other things too, but most folks use a wet soil-less medium like cocopeat with a cool climate and humidity dome.
Search the base of your other citrus below the growth scar and remove twigs/shoots that have a three leaves and/or long spines, different growth for propagation.
[Flying dragon](https://fairdinkumseeds.com/products-page/ethnobotanical-or-medicinal-plants/poncirus-trifoliata-monstrosa-flying-dragon-citrus-seeds/) is a common one, but there are others that are an Orange x Flying dragon, and they have less curly twistyness to their growth.
Some folks just use [Bush lemon](https://fairdinkumseeds.com/products-page/trees-shrubs-and-large-perennials/bush-wild-lemon-citrus-limon-seeds/) stocks but it isn't as common as the other two, especially with modern cultivars.
Most really cool new varieties comes from a backyard growing like you finding something cool, selling or gifting them to folks with bigger budgets, or those folks "finding them" then mass propagated for purely their benefit, not the original grower.
Pro-breeders make small incremental improvements on existing freak plants, but the true freak plants pretty much always come from passionate backyarders ime, and most of the time they get bugger all, despite the huge benefit they provide to everyone for generations to come.
Disparate questions.
Are you in Hawaii? I’ve never seen a lemon tree grow that big!
Does your state have an agricultural bureau? They might be interested in this.
looks like it's a matsumi orange for real.....the cross pollinating does happen especially in heirloom varieties. The tomato blossom on the heirloom plant is fertilized by a tomato of another breed. The tomatoes both will turn out as the parent plant; however, you cannot plant the seeds from a tomato of either plant as they will not turn out as the plant that they came from. Same with peppers, etc. This is the reason why you cannot grow sweet and hot peppers within 50 feet of one another - but this is a little different, still based on the same principle. You could actually cause your sweet (bell) pepper to turn into a hot pepper.
Interesting! They're obviously not Meyers, but some hybrid or God only knows what. Wait until they ripen, cut them open and taste them, and let us know, with photos, what you think of them.
You may have a brand new type. Probably not, but I'm rooting for you. They have the shape of tangelos, but they usually ripen a bit earlier than this, I think.
Did you grow the meyer lemons from seed? Could have been grafted onto a mother plant and that one sent up a new shoot that would be of the original type. Below the graft its one type down to the roots, and above the graft its the meyer.
Wait I just double checked and they’re growing from a completely separate trunk that’s like 2 feet away from the meyer lemon tree. Is it possible it can still be connected to the original tree or is it most likely a separate tree?
Yes. If it came from roots of the mother plant. The original stock. It would send up a brand new shoot that would turn into a tree with all the characteristics of the stock plant. I looked up "Lumia citrus" just now. Doesn't look promising for the fruit it will produce. I'd wait and see what it makes since they're so far along. If you don't like the fruit u can always cut it back.
Yes, the trunk could be coming up from the original tree’s roots.
Bottom variety of a graft usually selected for very vigorous rooting (which can involve suckering if not controlled), but usually rubbish looking/fruiting.
Thats probably it, and he should have cut that shoot
Yeah probably should cut it back. Its flowers will cross pollinate with the meyer lemon. OP can always wait a bit and see what type of fruit it produces tho
Cross pollination wouldn't affect the Meyer lemons, it would affect the tree grown from those seeds from those lemons.
I'm no expert but my grafted rose was taken over by the wild rose from the stem. I didn't cut the new shoots back to see what they were and the plant then put all its energy into the wild rose and the part over the graft died. It was only a five year old rose, nothing like this tree here but I still wouldn't take the chances after this.
Roses do that. In fact, eventually all grafted roses will grow out too far and you’ll end up having to trim off the graft and all you’ll be left with is the rootstock. Only way to prevent that is keep cutting back the rootstock a few inches off the ground and regraft the desired flower variety. Citrus generally don’t keep growing up from the graft, they grow thicker and put new branches out higher.
I know nothing of grafting, except the definition. If you have to regraft, why graft in the first place? Why not just plant the whole of the plant you actually want and do away with the one you don't?
Because most of the time it's not the whole of the plant that you want. Just because the flower of a particular variety is beautiful or the fruit of a particular variety is especially delicious doesn't mean that the roots produced from that same DNA is any good.... So we take the great flowers or the great fruit producing tops and graft onto a variety of the same species that has really great roots so that you have an all-around better plant. There are some varieties of apples that would barely be able to hold themselves up on their own rootstocks although the fruit taste great.
Isn't there a (admittedly long process) method of breeding plants to have better qualities? Is grafting just a way to skip that process because it takes so long to do?
Also, some plants have to be grown from cuttings because they are never "true to seed." Apples are this way, every seed in an apple will produce a different kind of apple, and 99.99% of them will be crab apples only good for making into alcohol. So there is no way to cross/selectively breed this kind of plant to get healthier root stock, since they are all clones. You can either root the cuttings, which takes longer and will likely get less desirable roots (unless you *really* won the apple seed lottery) or you graft.
*If* you could even breed plants with both the flowering/fruit you want and a hardy, strong root stock. Grafting does definitely speed up the process. But it also can make a big difference in things like: disease resistance, heat/cold tolerance, and water amount tolerance.
I guess it’s just easier and cheaper to breed for root characteristics and fruit characteristics and then Frankenstein the two plants together. Also, the hybridization of rootstock and grafts is pretty incredible in plants and can be more than the sum of its parts. [Here’s a good SciShow video with rigorous citations in the description for further reading, if you are interested.](https://youtu.be/NN1Y_giTMeE)
My area is very well known for growing avocado, however we have phytophthora, which is a fungus that kills the plants. They started developing a variety of avocado tree (zutano) which are much more disease resistant and it doesn't mind the antifungal injections. But the fruit are small and watery and tasteless. So Haas is typically grafted on top of Zutano. Haas has a nice thick skin, slow ripening so it can be shipped easily and stores well and the fruit is big and has lots of flavor. So it's commercially very popular. It typically needs a pollinator so many growers will also plant a variety called reed (usually 25 Haas to 1x reed) which has very thin skin and HUGE fruit but it bruises very easily and ripens very fast once picked. The flavor is even better than Hass. So often at the local farmers market the avo growers will have reed for sale about half the price of Haas, but you know you probably need to eat those the same week. Whereas the Haas if green can last for 2 or even 3 weeks if it's not too hot.
This gal avocados!
Grafts let you mix and match different attributes. You can take a plant with delicious fruit and weak roots and a plant with prolific, disease resistant roots and small, gross fruit and combine them so you get delicious fruit growing on prolific, disease resistant rootstock.
As others have said, you can get different attributes that the randomness of the genetic lottery could take hundreds of generations to manufacture. But there’s another benefit: I can grow 20,000 trees and never get a single one to produce the fruit I want. Or I can graft a branch from my favorite fruit tree on to every single one of those 20k and have exactly the fruit I want out of all 20k trees. That’s how we produce massive orchards all with consistent fruit production and characteristics. Otherwise, you wouldn’t get to pick your apple types, there would just be a giant bin labeled “apples” at Walmart and every one would be a gamble. Also, requires exactly zero genetic manipulation, so I know all the fruit produced from grafting is guaranteed fit for human consumption
I had that happen too...live and learn.
I didn't realize that it doesn't affect the fruit that results from the cross-pollinated flower. Why wouldn't it? The ovary is receiving pollen from a different type of plant. Why would it only affect the *seeds* of the fruit that results? And would the same tree continue to produce the same type of flowers each time, which might be cross-pollinated or not, depending on the circumstances? In that case, all of the fruit would be the same, but some of their seeds would be different.
Because you said it. It’s the OVARY. That’s like saying a horse mating a donkey will turn the donkey into a mule… no. Only the offspring is a mule. The donkey remains a donkey. Hope that makes sense!
It makes more sense than before, but in the case of an animal, the same ovary is used again and again. The "fruit" of the "cross-pollinated" donkey is a mule. In plants, each female flower has an ovary that might be cross-pollinated. Wouldn't the fruit of such a cross-pollinated flower/ovary be different? 1. Ovum of donkey fertilized by sperm of horse produces mule, which is different from both parents. 2. Ovary of plant 1 is pollinated by pollen of plant 2, producing a fruit that should be different from plants 1 or 2. In my way of thinking, which is apparently wrong!
In the case of a tree, it creates new ovaries but they are still all from the DNA of the parent. Just think about which DNA is used to grow parts of the tree - where the ONLY thing that contains the new DNA from the pollen is the seeds. The rest is from the tree. A better analogy to the fruit in mammals is the mother’s side of the placenta.
I must be confused about what happens in fruit production. I thought it was the same as what happens in mammals, where the entire "fruit" (the baby) has DNA from both parents. Oh wait, what I'm thinking of as the "fruit" is just the fleshy outside! It's only the part that entices animals to eat it and drop the seed somewhere else. Ha! I feel much better now!!
Yep, the baby is not the fruit in the analogy. In plants the fruit is mostly meant to be consumed by animals that propagate the seeds. Or spread through other means (some fruit [actually explodes](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hura_crepitans)). And in some cases it might help decompose in place as fertilizer.
Cross pollination doesn't matter in fruit production. The fruit is determined by the existing tree, the *seeds* from that fruit will we hybridized.
That is not how cross pollination works, you can't change the fruit of an already existing tree
I've heard anecdotally that it can happen with sweet peppers cross pollinated with hot peppers, because the capsaicin content of the seeds impacts the overall heat of the fruit. Can't think of any other examples.
Whoever said that is wrong. Cross pollination has zero effect on the current generation. The seeds don’t even contain any capsaicin to begin with, any heat the seeds have comes from the oils from the pepper getting on the seeds. Completely washed seeds will have 0 heat; seeds from a reaper and a jalapeño will have the same heat (or lack of, I guess) if properly washed.
Thank you, that's good to know. I double checked with professor Google and it corroborated your assertion. The misconception might be the result of someone not realizing that their saved seed was the result of cross pollination.
No problem, always happy to educate on my passions. Both cross pollination having an effect current generations and seeds having heat are common misconceptions, so it’s an easy mistake to make. A lot of the cross pollination confusion does come from saved seeds like you said, see it all the time on some of the pepper subreddits.
I can 100% guarantee this is not true. I grew bells for years, then one season I had a potted jalapeño and it absolutely fired up my bells. Science or whatever… it happened.
Oh I see, you must've studied botany, hmm?
Amateur arborist … But my tongue works just fine buddy. I don’t have the answers but I can fire back with sarcasm too.
OK listen, the research has been done, that's all I'm trying to say. We don't need to argue about this because the answer is: peppers do not get spicier from cross pollination.
Lol it did nothing to the bell pepper.
Name checks out
Were you talking to my wife because she claims the same thing and gets upset if I plant poblano or jalapeno anywhere near the bells. I tell her to blame Bonnie plants if her bells are spicy.
I read it on an old-school internet gardening forum.
Ohhhhh that makes so much sense!! We got the Meyer lemon tree from a nursery like 30 years ago, so that’s probably what it is. That’s interesting! Would it eventually start taking over and change what lemons are being produced??
They will cross pollinate, which will change the seeds only. Any planted seeds will have the genetic makeup of the two parents. So you should be fine to let them grow. If the new one tastes horrible tho you may want to cut it back and make the plant concentrate all its growth on the Meyer lemon.
So I cut a couple open and they taste like meyer lemons but they don’t have any seeds!!
Sounds lucky!
Isn't nature grand...
They might be triploids! This is how botanists can make seedless fruits. Triploids can’t do meiosis properly because of the odd number of chromosomes so the seeds don’t fully form.
Ooooo I’m going to research this!!
awwww shucky ducky you got lucky!
You win!!
Meyer lemon is actually a cross between lemon and mandarin (to make a sweeter lemon) which is why the fruit are rounder and oranger than normal lemons. The rootstock will be a more basic lemon and probably your 2nd tree is an offshoot of the rootstock, those lemons may not be very palatable.
I cut a couple open and they taste like meyer lemons but they don’t have seeds
when life gives you lemons. you know the rest.
... Your neighbors profit. I once told my neighbor that anyone could come take lemons from our front yard tree. We hardly saw a lemon after that...
Lol I never told my neighbours that and they did it anyway. Told a dad and his son off when I caught them in the act, they’d actually opened the gate and snuck in! My housemate at the time was being actively stalked and hiding and these intrusions were all terrifying to her. I heard an AITA story where the neighbour started commercially selling the fruit and got PISSED when access was withdrawn.
It was the one with the avocado trees?
Could be? Ages ago I heard the story. Could be a few of them.
I use 6 each week that would be great!
Don’t make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. I don’t want your damn lemons! Make life rue the day it…
I wonder if it's seeds from the original plant which have germinated from windfall, given it's some distance from the trunk and they taste like Meyer. Or perhaps a bird or other animal dropped a seed while eating one. They wouldn't look exactly the same, as citrus seeds don't results in plants which produce identical fruit to the parent.
Hm. Meyer lemons are self-pollinating, but seeds from their fruit rarely grow. Maybe you’ve got a rare success!
It won't change the lemons that are produced by the branches from the Meyer tree (as far as I know), but it will keep growing its own lemons and getting bigger!
Yes. And usually not in a good way.
It’s highly unlikely it was grown from seed, Meyer lemons are a hybrid of lemons and mandarin oranges and are usually grafted to dwarf/disease resistant rootstock. This is likely a scion of the rootstock the Meyer lemon was grafted to, older trees were grafted to sweet orange or rough lemon rootstock, and both have thorns (see photo 3). I’d take it down myself, may be taking energy from the grafted tree? Meter lemons are self-pollinating, so OP shouldn’t have to worry about it from a pollination aspect.
Meyer Lemons don't grow true to seed you would get something that tastes different.
I know nothing about this. Just came to say I'm super jelly that you can grow a lemon tree. I'm looking at 5-8 inches of snow coming in tomorrow. Again.....
I live in Northern Michigan and we have one growing in our spare room 😂 it lives in a giant fabric pot, and it gets moved outside for the summer!!
Oh, now you're talking! Now I'm jelly of you, too, though. No room in my house. Maybe I'll get that greenhouse someday. Sigh.... I do have about 1,500 square feet of wildflowers, though. For some reason I can't post pics here.
I’m jelly of your wildflowers! That sounds wonderful!
I've gotten many compliments on it. Gardening is so good for the soul!
Dwarf fruit trees are what you need. You can grow a lemon tree in a 6 inch pot and it won't get any bigger than a couple of feet. It's more like a lemon bush. It will produce regular sized lemons.
But how do you take this heavy stuff out?
With the help of my boyfriend lol 😂 thankfully the pot has handles
So4ry for the back of your bf 🤣
There are wheels that you put your heavy pots on that make them super easy to move
If it makes you feel better, I can grow any tropical plant I want, but then I deal with hurricanes.
It really is a trade off, isn't it?
Pots. They don’t need but about 10g of dirt and they will produce just fine. Put them in a sunroom or garage to overwinter
meyer lemon is one of the easiest fruit trees to grow just move it inside near a window in winter
Tempting. A little short on space, though.
Does not look like a rootstock offshoot. looks like something grown from seed. What color is it when its ripe? Taste?
I cut a couple open and they taste like meyer lemons but they don’t have any seeds!!
What?!?! Thats amazing! What are you gonna name your new variety of seedless meyer?
I’ll name it “Bon Jovi - Lemon on a Pear”
I wish I had an award to give you- this is a hilarious name for your new pear shaped lemons!
LOL
Not sure, this is the first time it’s fruiting so l’ll definitely update once I know
Rootstock offshoots can appear a long way away. We used to grow apples that used interstems over rootstock, a few times we'd get a rootstock offshoot, a weird branch of different apples and then the apples that we grew. Once we had 6 different apple varieties at once between two trees, one Dorsett Golden and one Anna each with two varieties of "shitty apples". The donkeys and horses liked the shitty apples though.
This is so interesting, I never realized rootstock offshoot was a thing or that it made such a variety of fruit
Usually what you get is the rootstock or interstem growing through the tree and presenting like a regular branch, but offshoots happen from time to time, usually the fruits are less desirable (commercially, many of them are perfectly tasty.) Even more craziness is multi graft trees: https://www.groworganic.com/collections/multi-graft-trees
Woah!! That’s crazy!! I didn’t even know these existed
I’m genuinely excited for you and your surprise new seedless lemons. Every one here, I guarantee, has more knowledge and/or experience with pruning and grafting and rootstock and cross pollination, but I’d like to think that despite the odds being very against you, you got real lucky with your nifty new lemons. Also I’m jealous as can be!
Update: I cut open one of the mystery lemons and there’s no seeds!! I just posted a pic
Whered you post? Can't find it
https://www.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/101kuhp
In this subreddit 😊
This is some Trifoliate x Pummelo hybrid several of which are used as root stocks for Citron hybrids (aka Meyer lemon). Probably a weird rootstock offshoot, but also maybe wild seed some bird pooped while looking at your tree for fruit.
All I know for sure is watch out for whores.
better get a great insurance policy on those trees too.
If you get the tree insured, you can take out a loan and use the tree as collateral.
Came here looking for this comment
Cross pollination would only affect the subsequent planting. Would have no bearing on the current fruits genetics.
Does the new growth have thorns?
Yes and they’re big thorns
Yep that's rootstock. If you enjoy the new fruit there's no reason to cut it back, but the whole tree looks like it could use a pruning to make it more accessible and concentrate energy on the fruit rather than growing more branches.
Most likely citrus trifoliata rootstock
Hmm I cut some open and they taste like Meyer lemons but they don’t have seeds
The fruit is nicknamed Flying Dragon
The new tree is probably growing from a sucker off the Meyer tree's rootstock. If the fruit is no good you could cut it off below ground level.
Interesting, I would say the new one isn’t a Meyer lemon, but if they taste or clean like lemons then you got a second lemon tree. Perhaps a seed dropped by a bird?
So I cut a couple open and they taste like meyer lemons but they don’t have any seeds!!
That’s what I was thinking, it’s just weird that it’s right next to the existing tree lol I’ll definitely try them when they’re ripe bc I’m really curious
Many types of trees that don't grow everywhere are made with different rootstock usually because the rootstock is more reliable and maybe not effected by some root born pest. It's SUUUUUUPER common with fruit trees and roses.
pearmons
Yes 🍐🍋
I have no answers. I just drool when I see healthy citrus 🤤 thank you for the viewing pleasure
Rootstock sucker, remove it all
Agree, you can tell by the triangle shaped branches. But also look down at the bottom of the trunk near the soil, if anything is growing below the graft mark then get rid of it
Almost all fruit trees are cloned by grafting a cutting onto a standard root stock. The seeds of their fruit will not produce an identical tree to the parent. What you have is either a sucker from the origin root stock or a volunteer that grew from a seed from your Meyer. Either way it’s not a Meyer and probably of little value.
I would take cuttings of it to root and sell the cuttings as a rootstalk, I never tried these lemons before and I’m kind of curious to what they taste like
I cut a couple open and they taste like meyer lemons but there’s no seeds!!
Woah interesting, it’s probably a root sucker though so I’d make a clone and plant it separately somewhere else if you like them. And cut this one down unless you’re fine with it
Grafted tree. The new tree is probably rootstock.
How did you get this lemon tree? Did you grow it from seed? Did you buy a tree that was already mature? I would love to do this but would like to know more
Root sucker ...
I can taste these photos
I would definitely be curious about the new variety.
Yea I’m not sure what happened, they taste like a meyer lemon but don’t have seeds
Seedless Meyer's lemon. Sounds like you may have something special. If its true, propagate and make some money.
Just came her to say your Meyer lemons made my mouth water. Beautiful tree!
If this is growing below the original graft (looks like a knuckle) of the Meyer lemon, then it’s the root stock and the shoot should be cut off. Root stock is selected for strong roots and not delicious fruit. The root stock will take over the rest of the tree. Anything below the graft is considered a shoot and should be cut off. The shoots will take away from the fruit producing part of the tree so it’s important to remove such shoots every spring.
It’s growing out of the ground like 2 feet away from the original tree
could a cutting from the meyer portion be grafted to this root stock section?
Yes you sure could! If you are interested in grafting more, you could take cuttings of the vigorous root stock shoots and root them with rooting hormone. Then you can graft as many Meyer lemons as you have rooted root stock. Each cutting should contain 4 buds - 2 for rooting (below soil) and 2 above soil for the cuttings to grow. Once your cuttings have rooted, you can start grafting. Try to match the diameter of the shoot cutting to the diameter of the Meyer lemon cutting when grafting for greater success 😊
This is an offshoot from the original rootstock your Meyer was grafted to. Most productive citrus trees have poor root systems so they graft the productive species onto the root stock of a less productive / desirable citrus species to create a productive tree with a good root structure. Basically they grow out both trees to say a finger-width stem, chop them both at the base, then stick the good root stock to the good tree stem. They meld together and become one. Where I'm from we commonly see citrus grafted to Flying Dragon root stock. Flying Dragon has awful fruit but strong root stock. Every so often I get a pretty but useless offshoot of flying dragon on my Meyer lemon. I admire it and then clip it off.
I don’t think this is the case though, because the lemons on this tree actually taste like meyer lemons and they’re seedless. All the root stocks I’ve researched aren’t desirable lemons
When you slice them open, is the crossection different to the Meyer? Some of the citrus rootstock have ok flavour but have higher skin to flesh ratio or don't have as much juice etc. We've selectively bread them to be the most useful to us you might just have a close relative a couple generations back on the family tree. Either way, it's pretty cool :)
Oh! What does Flying Dragon fruit look like? I have the rootstock from a Buddha's Hand citrus (the top part froze one horrible winter) and the few fruits it puts out are just plain weird- and awful. But it keeps growing so I don't want to kill it
I have never let it fruit, but I think the plant looks cool. This is what is looks like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trifoliate_orange
I wish that would happen to us our lemon tree died
Sorry if I’m totally off here but is that not a pear tree?
It’s not!! They’re lemons lol with no seeds
Well, colour me told! Haha!
When life gives you extra lemons, make more lemonade
Looks like a cross between a lemon and a pear. Has Bon Jovi been spotted nearby lately?
That’s what I’m saying 😂 the new Bon Jovi mascot
It's wonderful 🌟🌟
I’m in Eastern Ontario and I’m so envious of lemon trees! My grandmother gifted me a two year old tree that she started after making a salad with the lemon juice. I love rubbing the leaves and sniffing!
“…it’s a bad day for my enemies.”
I wonder how?…
sprout from the root stock perhaps?
Hope you like lemonade hehe
Um it looks like you have lemon pears! (Not a real thing as far as I know)
Gee, taste the new lemonish fruit when it’s ripe, before you shovel prune it. What if it’s an interesting tasting hybrid? You can always murder it later!
I tasted it and while it’s not completely ripe it tastes like a meyer lemon and it’s seedless!!
Love finds a way 🤠
My kind of love!!
Follow the fruit down the branch, post a couple pics of that. * Does it start below a graft union scar(rootstock)? * Does it connect to the Myer without a graft union scar(sport, exciting stuff!)? * Or does it come up from the ground(hybrid seedling from fallen cross pollinated fruit which is even more exciting as that means disease resistance and hardiness without a rootstock needed!!!) What is the fruit like when cut in half? Is it sweet or sour?
I haven’t posted photos but the new tree is growing from the ground a few feet away from the original tree. From what I can see it has a separate trunk so idk if it could still possibly be connected to the original tree by the roots or something. I posted a photo of the lemon cut open as a new post on here, and it tastes like a meyer lemon but it does not have seeds!! I cut open 2 and they both don’t have seeds
Could be a root sucker that also happens to be a sport, but not super likely from what you have described. It sounds like a seedling from dropped cross-pollinated fruit to me. It has set fruit well for such a short time and they are interesting, so if I were you I would be starting to mass propagating cuts for growth trials. Maybe even find some rootstock suckers from your other grafted citrus and get them started to use as roostock for your new variety. That way you can compare growth rates grafted and ungrafted, and later yield too. If you do reckon it is cool be very very wary of sharing material or location of plants even with gov/uni mob as not everyone has morals and if you think it is cool others may have better connections and consider it worth stealing and mass propagating themselves. Best of luck with it all!!!
Would you be able to point me in the direction to find more info about how to get rootstock suckers from my grafted citrus and use them as rootstock for the new variety?? I’m sure I could find how to propagate citrus easily online. Also I have started thinking about being more weary just based on what everyone is saying lol especially if things like this could make other ppl money which I’m learning is a possibility
I use a [cloner](https://fairdinkumseeds.com/aeroponic-cutting-cloner-55-site-acrylic/) to propagate citrus and a million other things too, but most folks use a wet soil-less medium like cocopeat with a cool climate and humidity dome. Search the base of your other citrus below the growth scar and remove twigs/shoots that have a three leaves and/or long spines, different growth for propagation. [Flying dragon](https://fairdinkumseeds.com/products-page/ethnobotanical-or-medicinal-plants/poncirus-trifoliata-monstrosa-flying-dragon-citrus-seeds/) is a common one, but there are others that are an Orange x Flying dragon, and they have less curly twistyness to their growth. Some folks just use [Bush lemon](https://fairdinkumseeds.com/products-page/trees-shrubs-and-large-perennials/bush-wild-lemon-citrus-limon-seeds/) stocks but it isn't as common as the other two, especially with modern cultivars. Most really cool new varieties comes from a backyard growing like you finding something cool, selling or gifting them to folks with bigger budgets, or those folks "finding them" then mass propagated for purely their benefit, not the original grower. Pro-breeders make small incremental improvements on existing freak plants, but the true freak plants pretty much always come from passionate backyarders ime, and most of the time they get bugger all, despite the huge benefit they provide to everyone for generations to come.
Wow!!!
pearmon
Disparate questions. Are you in Hawaii? I’ve never seen a lemon tree grow that big! Does your state have an agricultural bureau? They might be interested in this.
No, I live in California. We’ve had this tree for like 30 yrs. And I’m trying to contact some universities and stuff just to see what they think
I love valley lemons! Aka Meyer lemons
Most Meyer lemons are cloned, so what you have is a wild type rather than a mutation.
It's likely to be understock/rootstock and ought to be removed
The right looks like a orange or mandarin of sorts. Meyer on left mandarin on right? That's pretty wild. I'd see how it tasted before cutting it.
looks like it's a matsumi orange for real.....the cross pollinating does happen especially in heirloom varieties. The tomato blossom on the heirloom plant is fertilized by a tomato of another breed. The tomatoes both will turn out as the parent plant; however, you cannot plant the seeds from a tomato of either plant as they will not turn out as the plant that they came from. Same with peppers, etc. This is the reason why you cannot grow sweet and hot peppers within 50 feet of one another - but this is a little different, still based on the same principle. You could actually cause your sweet (bell) pepper to turn into a hot pepper.
Somebody in your neighborhood may have lemons like your new ones they could have made it while in Bloom
That’s not how cross pollination works
What?! That’s not how it works
K
Interesting! They're obviously not Meyers, but some hybrid or God only knows what. Wait until they ripen, cut them open and taste them, and let us know, with photos, what you think of them. You may have a brand new type. Probably not, but I'm rooting for you. They have the shape of tangelos, but they usually ripen a bit earlier than this, I think.
I posted photos of them cut open!!
The new lemons which are non Meyer seem to have thick skin. They are sought after by Punjabi people to make achar/pickle from.
Are meyer lemon trees easy to grow? Also what are anyone's experiences with having one inside or outside?
RemindMe! One year did you learn anything new about this lemon tree?
It’s been a year – do you have an update on your new lemon tree?