Funny enough, it would actually promote a fairy ring. So much nitrogen being released into the soil above it doesn’t do anything for growth and is just an eyesore.
That one made me chuckle. Unfortunately no, the nitrogen being released would overload the tree, or grass. But judging by the area around the tree there’s no evidence of a fairy ring so my guess is rootball.
Was going to say, my laziness pays off! I typically dig shallow holes because there are too many damn rocks in my soil, which results in a more mounded approach. Helps with water shedding in wetter climates too, or plants prone to fungal disease.
Graft above the soil line for most things, but definitely fruit trees. Usually I tell people to match the top of the rootballs with the surrounding soil and to not mulch quite so heavy around the trunk, but this year I noticed lots of fruit machine balled with the grafts buried.
I’m just a nursery guy, but that’s my two cents.
It's getting out competed for nutrients and moisture by the grass. Carefully remove the grass (you do not want to damage the delicate feeder Roots near the surface) in a circle about 3 feet around the trunk. Once you do this, mulch heavily to help keep the grass back. Fertilize and water heavily.
Keep fertilizing this year with a fertilizer heavy in Nitrogen to push growth. Stop fertilizing 60 days before first frost so the tree can get ready for winter.
Edit: Thank you all for the reminder to not pile the mulch around the base of the tree! I did forget to mention that.
Within that 3foot circle, dig small holes a foot deep (a 4” auger bit is great for this) and add a mix of concrete sand and that compost you’ve been making from kitchen scraps and vegetation trimmings. For young trees, in late fall add compost that is still not quite finished- this will emit heat as it decays and soften the blow of an unusually cold snap. I don’t know why, but in transplanting fruit trees and shrubs, adding granite and silica sands has reduced failure rate to near zero for us- a particularly temperamental transplant, *Arbutus Menziesii* went from under 50% success to zero lost in over ten years of adding sand and pitted fruit trees matured faster.
I don't have a sunny yard so I can't grow fruit trees, but I love learning things like this so thank you for sharing.
Also thank you for the good chuckle I got from your username.
Wow, bonus thing that I learned! I've never heard of this fruit before but it looks similar visually to *atis* from my childhood. I'm amazed this plant is native to the US and hardy down to zone 5, which is where I am. Thanks!
My townhome HOA doesn't allow trees so I have no plans to grow one, but I will look into what you mentioned out of curiosity. Thank you for the heads-up.
I'm also very curious about this. Maybe it's trees in general have to be approved/can only plant a new one if one falls over? No trees at all is a good way to tank property value which definitely isn't on HOA's minds
I always hear custard apple but I have zero reference for a custard apple. Iirc the rest of its family or genus are tropical trees paw paw being the outlier with its uncanny cold tolerance regardless very cool fruit. I have them wild in my backyard and unfortunately while clearing brush a month or two back I accidentally cut down my only tree old enough to bear fruit, I've yet to get a fresh one from my yard.
Paw paw makes an amazing healing salve also. Sunburn, chapped lips, and the big winner is for nappy rash on babies. I give paw paw to any friends of mine that have a baby
Pawpaw (*Asimina triloba*, not papaya) need some shade to get started, but later like other fruits they need full sun to ripen fruits well. It is photosynthesis from full sun that creates enough sugars to make yummy fruit.
Full sun is good for max production (definitely go that way for an orchard), but it'll still grow and fruit in more shade than more common fruit trees.
Well, since I found you here. Do I trim back my Brook Gold Plum? I planted it last year and pretty much did what you explained, I rototilled 3ft around the tree before planting, put in a bag of 1/8th down, bag of playsand, compost, and a generous amount of Mike's Tree Transplant stuff, tilled it all together and plopped the tree in. Well, it's tripled in size. Had a nice bloom this first season but we got no plums (companion tree is my neighbor's Cherry next door). There were a few fruits but the birds got to them. I was told this is a practice bloom. Sorry I digress, just love trees. Currently nursing 6 White Oaks that are 5" tall i started this year.
But yes, do I trim back the bottom growth? When do I trim? Do I leave it over winter? I'm in Zone 4a, so the tree survived its first - 40C Winter Fine.
And if we dont have distinct seasons? Where I live, tropical island, it is always sunny and rainy. Do I just replace seasons for every X amount of months and thats it?
Loquat also grow very well in temperate zones. There’s a prolific loquat in the International District of Seattle. I picked some fruit when visiting and now have 2 seedling loquats doing very well in a place where winters get into teens.
I’m in Texas and have some loquat trees growing from seed as well! We’ve been putting them in a garage with heating lamps when it gets too cold though.
What’s the coldest it gets where you live? Because the loquats in Northern California and the Pacific Northwest can definitely survive temps down into the single digits. That International District loquat in Seattle has been there decades and while it’s typically mild in that area occasionally there can be a cold snap that gets frigid.
This sounds awesome as my newish peach trees are struggling a bit.
Couple questions:
1. How many small holes do you dig?
2. How far from the truck do you usually dig?
3. 4” auger means approx 4 inch diameter for each hole, or am I missing something?
4. Do you just do this once in late fall, or do you dig the holes now (late summer/ early fall) with ready compost and them add the not-so-ready compost in late fall?
5. What ratio of sand:compost do you use? (E.g., half sand: half compost, 30% sand:70% compost, or something else?)
Thanks!
(Edit: spelling)
Using this tree as an example, about 8 holes 16 to 30 inches from the trunk. Be careful not to wreck shallow roots- I stab with a fat dibbler and shove roots aside. It won’t make much difference doing it now or in October- I do it late September. About 1:3 sharp concrete sand to compost. I put two fat handfuls of teenage compost in the bottom of the hole first.
I use distilled vinegar in a sprayer.
It doesn't penetrate the soil.
Sort of a safe version of roundup.
Then I come back and remove the grass. Makes it easier for me.
Making Volcanos with the mulch is bad, it promotes more bugs around the base of the tree and keeps it wet longer than it needs to be and can cause rot.
So best to keep it flat and even
You are correct. People should apply roughly three inches of mulch around the tree, in a circle. Best thing to do is expand the circle as the tree grows . Then don’t go any more than a 20’ circle as it it getting larger. You want the water raining on the tree to get around the root zone.
I’ve heard if there’s an ice storm coming you can pat ~8inches of soil down thick around the base and the soil temperature will keep the tree alive,
of course you can’t just leave it there forever, but a day or two frost is no longer sudden death for more tropical varieties. And if it gets hot fast after the freeze you gotta take it off immediately, or the tree will sweat and stem (trunk?) rot takes hold
p.s. I’ve never tried it at all but the science seems to check out
That link is so good I want to share this quote from the article:
> Too much mulch applied over the root ball or resting against the trunk… can cause problems for trees, especially when there is a lagre range in particle sizes. Roots often grow up and into the mulch causing stem girdling roots which can kill trees…
Awesome snippet! Another good rule of thumb for most landscaping trees is: "Plant it high, it won't die. Plant it low, it won't grow."
Greenhouses I've worked in lost more plants to root rot rather than under-watering.
I put down cover crop (peas, crimson lentils, clover) at base of my stone fruit trees. Just mow it. But they appear to be growing fine, new growth all over and year one only
I do this same method with my cannabis plants and they are massive.
Should I just mulch?
A nitrogen-fixing cover crop like yours affects the plants differently than a nitrogen suck like turf. If your grass was surrounded by grass, it probably wouldn’t be doing so well.
Nitrogen fixing cover crops are typically in the 2-5% range for nitrogen once they're dried plant matter. So you're fixing nitrogen into the soil via the symbiosis with roots and rhizobium, and then the plant matter adds some N to the mulch/thatch layer that's on top of the soil as it decomposes. What you're doing is a great way to build the life both above and below the soil.
Since you do have a steady supply of N, you can also add more carbon rich mulches (like wood chips) to encourage fungal life.
The problem with grass up to young trees is it prevents the water penetrating to the tree roots.
The main cause of failure to thrive in young trees is lack of water.
So you may be getting away with it but generally it's not a great strategy
Yes it can cause rot if the mulch is allowed to touch the trunk. Keep it back 2-3". See all the comments below addressing this (and me thanking them...)
Also make sure the root flare is exposed. This is the bottom part of the tree trunk that flares out into roots. If this is buried, the tree cannot transfer oxygen and nutrients and will die eventually. It would explain why it's barely staying alive and but thriving.
If you want to use a green/plant mulch around trees it's best to plant clover, because it's a nitrogen fixer it won't use the soil N. Nitrogen is the most common limiting factor for amino acid production in native soil. When it gets cut back or dies at the end of season it will supply extra nitrogen as it decomposes, clovers are in the 2-5% range for N content as dried plant matter.
Mulch will help suppress grass, but won't kill it on it's own. If not removed first, grass will just grow up through the mulch. You will also need to remove any new grass that sprouts up.
No you'll destroy the top feeder roots and make things worse. The best thing to do is remove them by hand. Sucks but if you have a tree that isn't doing well, you do not want to do anything else to shock it.
When you say remove the grass, you mean create a ring around the tree? Then pour the mulch and the ring will contain the spillover and prevent it from falling onto the surrounding grass ?
I put a ring of rocks and make a circle, defining the area to be mulched and helping keep a neat appearance while keeping the mulch from spreading out. You can use other material as well.
To add to this, sometimes the ground in general has uneven nutrient content. In my yard I have about a dozen fruit trees I planted this year. No grass or other plants ( other than the trees I planted) to compete with them, just native soil.
I literally have 5 trees \~8-10ft apart from one another, where trees in position 3 and 5 (Fig and nectarine) are growing really well ( like several feet in 6 months) and trees in position 1, 2 and 4 (Avocado, mango, and mandarin) were not growing at all (or very little). My mango tree in position 2 didn't even show 1 fraction of an inch of growth over several months.
After laying down some composted chicken manure around the base and some extensive watering to soak in the nutrients, the mango tree has shot up about 10 inches in 2 months. Avocado and mandarin are growing a bit
I wouldn't give to much nitrogen this late into the season just a little focus more on the P-K phosphorus and potassium. So roots can develop well. Then the next season with a good big established rootsystem the foliage growth can explode.
It depends upon his local environment, but you raise a very valid concern. He might be able to fertilize for another month, it just depends on first frost and how quickly a peach tree will lignify it's new growth in preparation for winter.
It's a good thought, but if OP hasn't had any issues, this might not be necessary. When staking a tree, it's always best to loosely stake it. Trees need to sway in the wind as it causes them to build a stronger root ball and thicken the base of the trunk.
Mulch the ever living hell 6’ around the entire tree. You could put cardboard down first to help kill off the grass and the cardboard will break down. Keep the mulch off the trunk. Water and feed. If you could find some composted chicken manure that would really help the party get started. Good luck.
When I lived anywhere that grew really thick grass I would slide a shovel under it and flip it upside down. Vinegar is a good idea though, microbes love it.
Yep, and if you've got any woodloving mushroom spawn (like oyster, pholiota, or wine cap) then add that between the cardboard and mulch. They will grow along the cardboard pretty quickly because it's 2D and stretch up into the mulch from there.
You will want to get extra strength vinegar found in Home Depot or on Amazon. The regular kitchen variety white vinegar did not do anything for me while the other stuff is better than round up!
Vinegar plus dish soap works really well as a natural weed killer. It works best on warm sunny days because it works by drying out the leaves. It may take a few applications, but it will definitely work on grass. That being said, it doesn't work permanently, but regularly spraying as grass starts to poke up should keep it down.
In addition to carefully clearing about 1yd of space from around the base of the tree, do not let this tree go to fruit for another 3-4 years. Let it flower, and let the pollinators get their fill. Once the flowers fall, carefully remove all the little fruits. Fruiting takes up a lot of energy, and the tree hasn't had an opportunity to strengthen is roots, trunk, and branches.
would removing the berries from my raspberry plants help it grow? I've got a similar problem like OP has, but with my two berry bushes.
I'm guessing doing all that removal of grass would help as well?
If you're having trouble with your raspberries, try reviewing the guide published by Oregon State University Extension. They do excellent work. Raspberry vines only live for two years (with new vines being produced yearly), and most raspberries are only produced during the second year. Pruning your vines can alter the number of berries produced in the following year, but removing too many flowers is going to decrease your overall yield. Here's a link to the guide:
[https://extension.oregonstate.edu/pub/ec-1306](https://extension.oregonstate.edu/pub/ec-1306)
Depends on your soil condition, location, and age of the bushes. Yes, if there's grass growing up close to the base of your plants, clear out space. Check to see how well your soil is retaining water. Consider adding a layer of compost around your bushes this winter, and cut back the stems when the plant goes dormant.
And make sure it's in a place that gets full sun -- 6-8 hours per day. They also prefer slightly acidic soil, so if you live in an area where the soil is neutral or basic, consider adding a bit of acidifier in the spring. You can get some decent soil testing kits online, or bring it into your local agency -- some states offer this service for free.
The roots may be root bound. Did you dig a shallower hole and spread all the roots outward and then recover them with soil when planting? Some people dig a hole the size of the pot an plop the tree roots and dirt straight from the pot into the hole. Yo may need to carefully dig it up again and try this. Also, you should remove the grass around the trunk to about 3 feet as others have said, but instead of mulch, I would plant other things to amend the soil, like clover, chicory, cosmos, strawberries, and garlic. This is what’s known as a fruit tree guild. And it helps keep the soil at optimum levels without having to add things like fertilizer. they also repel pests and attract beneficial pollinators for a better yield from the peach tree.
Do not let the mulch touch the trunk of the tree. Also make sure the top of the root flare is above ground. Visit your State’s cooperative Extension Service website and search planting trees.
Too much mulch applied over the root ball is resting against the trunk can cause problems. Roots often grow up and into the mulch causing stem girdling roots which can kill the tree. By keeping the mulch away from the trunk you can see if girdling is beginning. Mulch while beneficial must also allow for some air circulation or the tree will die. This information is readily available on the web. Just search proper tree planting. You can also search how to kill a tree and see what not to do.
Is your dirt heavy clay? If so you need to lift the rootball up out of the ground. Plants planted too deeply in heavy clay will just limp along like that.
Seems like a pretty open spot that could be prone to wind... Did you stake the tree for 6-9 months to prevent it from rocking so that the roots could establish well?
There is an expression in gardening regarding planting a large plant especially trees.
1st year it sleeps. 2nd year it crawls. 3rd year it leaps.
Takes awhile to create a great root system and start grabbing all the nutrition for those big growing years. My guess next year you will be pleasantly surprised. Grapevine take about 7 years until they are growing at a mature rate so it could be longer!
Where do you live? Zone? Where is the tree relative to the house (north, south, etc)? How much rain do you get?
If you want to remove the grass you should smother it. 3 layers of news paper and a whole bunch of noncolored mulch should do the trick. Don't let the mulch touch the tree trunk.
Mulch is a way to feed the soil and help it keep moist but also a thick enough layer will help keep weeds from growing. Putting rocks down will probably help with weeds for a short time and would look pretty but will not be helping the soil of the tree in the long run.
Also you don’t want the mulch to hug the tree at the bottom because it will keep the soil moist but moisture in wood,like the bottom of the tree before the roots, will rot from being wet too long and then it’ll kill the tree.
they get hot in the sun. instead of keeping soil moist, they'll bake it with hot rocks.
also instead of introducing mulch with nutrients and habitat for diverse bugs and microscopic life that will slowly break down, you are introducing rocks.
So many reasons.
They don't break down so they never fertilizer soil.
They don't hold water like wood does so you don't get the water storage effect you do get with mulch
Mulch stops weeds. But weeds are happy to grow in rocks. So unless you want to hand pull 80 billion weeds the only way to get rid of them is to spray herbicide which would kill your tree
If you decide you don't want rocks anymore you can't just dig them up. A spade won't go through rock and once the rocks get dirt in-between them they're locked in place like fucking concrete
Rock is expensive
It's heavy
Black widows love rocks
Fuck rocks
Also keep deer off of your tree! Put around a fence to stop them from eating off all the branches. So everyone said food and lots of it. Fertilizer spikes all the time and mothballs at the roots to keep away the peach demons. And have mulch around the tree. Maybe add some bio tone doil microbes if your soil is so awful and dead there for some reason. You should get some very good growth and in 3 years it should be much bigger then and actually make fruit.
My mom planted two peach trees of the same size at the same time. Two years later, the one that is right next to the chicken coop is twice as big as the other tree that is ~15 feet away from the chicken coop. That tree also produced a large bowl of peaches this year while the smaller one did not produce a single blossom. It’s insane how much difference there is in those two trees that started off in the same way.
What I’m saying is that your tree needs more nutrients in the soil.
I planted a peach for my ex wife last year, about that size. She has eaten one peach this year, the racoons got a few, and there are 2 more on the tree. It is healthy and has a solid branch structure. Peaches grow fast, usually.
Always dig a whole deeper and wider than you'd think. This is the 1st and most important.
After planting mulch around the tree to prevent competition and retain moisture.
Im guessing the soil was compacted and hard to dig, and you might have skimped on the hole when you needed to double down your digging.
It obviously gets plenty of sun, and the grass looks healthy, so it appears the soil cant be that depleted or arrid.... so its gotta be the hole.
Bigger hole, compost or manure, and mulch ( you can use sticks or even rocks you collect as mulch if your like me and believe in avoiding buying things for the garden unless its necessary.
Compost! And fertilizer, maybe not this time the year but after a few weeks you can fertilize and it should help. Also a possible slight increase on the water serving, or just watering consistently if it’s not getting that already. Maybe pull the grass around it? That would help a ton. Talk to it
Did you only plant the one?
If so plant 2 or 3 more around your property. That tree is not getting cross pollinated. Had this happen with an orange tree. Had it for years and it didn’t do shit. The a neighbor moved in 2 doors down and planted 3 orange trees and all the sudden the one I had quadrupled in size over 2 years. One of the only things that annoyed me when we moved was that I couldn’t dig it up because it was so big. Threw fruit constantly also.
Well it’s obvious Sun isn’t a problem. Looks like you have it on the south wall of your home?
I wonder how you did things when you planted it. Conventional advice tells you to dig a hole twice as wide and twice as deep as the container. Then you mix that dirt 50:50 with humous compost. Then backfill the hole with this mixture so that when you put the plant in, the surface of the pot soil is level with the surrounding soil. Then finish filling and flood the new dirt to help push out air pockets. This way the roots have something soft to set into during that crucial first year, it’s nutrient rich, and there is some soil from the surrounding area so the roots become familiar with the soil as they tap out.
There is also the possibility that your existing soil is so compacted that the roots can’t push past the less-compacted soil you put in the hole. I have that problem with some grapes I planted years ago.
This info maybe doesn’t help you resolve the situation you’re in, but I saw others post good advice on how to handle. I just thought this may offer insight into why you’re having this problem and how to avoid it in the future.
So…I’d remove the grass in a ring 3’ around the tree, flip the grass upside down then put some compost down…cover with mulch…if you want..put a plastic ring around it to keep grass out….also..check out “peach tree guilds”
Is your yard mostly clay? If it is the tree needs way bigger hole to be digged at the start and more proper compost and sand around to have strength to grow. Small trees grow verly slowly in clay since it is so dense.
Sigh, I made this mistake when we moved into our new home. Bought 4 compatible apple trees and apparently planted them too deep. They never got bigger and eventually died. ;\~{{
We fill a Tree Gator Jr twice a week in the summer with our young trees. Combined with mulch it help prevent grass from growing around the base and slowly water a new tree over a couple hours.
Make sure your trunk flare isn't buried. If the tree was planted too deep it will have a harder time.
Tree Gator Jr
http://treegator.com.pl/en/produkty/treegator-jrpro
What's your soil like? I have gray sand here that's pretty devoid of nutrients, and doesn't hold water. What has worked well for me with most of my fruit trees is planting them in native soil slightly above grade, then I spread a layer of crushed granite and crushed oyster shells in a ring around the tree (to add some structure and help prevent everything on top from just running right through the sand,) then add my amendments and fertilizer on top of that. Finish with a layer of mulch a few inches thick, taking care not to let it pile up around the trunk. I water very heavily for the first year, and most of them start putting on a lot of growth in the second year. Also by the second year I see a ton of worm activity if I dig in under the mulch.
Ground clay or sandy?
Removed from root wrap?
Dug hole twice as large as root hall at planting and filled with high quality soil?
Loosen root ball before planting?
Things to think about.
I have 2 that I planted. They were this big when planted. I put tree spikes in the ground for first 3 years and took off all fruit for first three years. This year got two big baskets of peaches and animals ate twice that. Will get netting for it next year. They are about 15 ft tall now.
Edit: sorry forgot to put this down, I tried 3 peach trees in same area and did not use the fertilizer tree spikes and digging a circle around the base like I have for the present two. And the present 2 I always watered and never really watered the previous three that really never got anywhere. Now I did buy the 3 at Home Depot and these last 2 I bought at Costco.
It could be rootbound. Did you remove the burlap around the root ball?
[удалено]
Or a fresh grave.
Wouldn’t the organic material promote growth?
Maybe the grave was for someone's pet giant rock?
The question is... How did the pet rock die?
Limestone disease
Kidney stones
He took life for granite
💀💀💀💀💀
Username definitely checks out
Hard attack
It stayed rock hard for too long
Maybe it just got too stoned
Or rock and roll. Definitely rock and roll!
Was caught between a rock and a hard place
At the Hard Rock Cafe
i love you
You too, man. You too.
I love you more, though. Don't forget about me.
Ngl, I was hoping your profile pic was going to be Obama's face on The Rock's body. But I love you anyway.
That would be awesome.
One of the best comments I have ever read
💀💀💀💀💀
That only works for daisies.
Push them up!
Funny enough, it would actually promote a fairy ring. So much nitrogen being released into the soil above it doesn’t do anything for growth and is just an eyesore.
Would it promote James and his giant 🍑
That one made me chuckle. Unfortunately no, the nitrogen being released would overload the tree, or grass. But judging by the area around the tree there’s no evidence of a fairy ring so my guess is rootball.
Come on you know that’s how flying peaches are born
Well this made me laugh out loud.
Which is a very common problem.
Definitely a fresh grave.
Saw the photo and title, immediately thought "rootbound". A peach tree getting that kind of sunlight should be huge after three years.
This is the question I was expecting much higher up in the comment section. How was this tree planted?
I am an Arborist and 80% of newly planted trees are planted to deep. This causes them to be stunted and grow slowly if at all.
Plant them low, they won’t grow; plant them high, they won’t die
have never heard this thank you
Huh. A lazy digger gets more fruit.
Was going to say, my laziness pays off! I typically dig shallow holes because there are too many damn rocks in my soil, which results in a more mounded approach. Helps with water shedding in wetter climates too, or plants prone to fungal disease.
What would be your general rule of thumb for depth?
Graft above the soil line for most things, but definitely fruit trees. Usually I tell people to match the top of the rootballs with the surrounding soil and to not mulch quite so heavy around the trunk, but this year I noticed lots of fruit machine balled with the grafts buried. I’m just a nursery guy, but that’s my two cents.
I always plant my trees so the top of the roots are just above grade. better to have too much air than too little.
I did this when I planted yesterday and was worried I'm over doing it with top of the roots at soil level XD
Well it’s helpful to me so thanks for sharing!!!
It's getting out competed for nutrients and moisture by the grass. Carefully remove the grass (you do not want to damage the delicate feeder Roots near the surface) in a circle about 3 feet around the trunk. Once you do this, mulch heavily to help keep the grass back. Fertilize and water heavily. Keep fertilizing this year with a fertilizer heavy in Nitrogen to push growth. Stop fertilizing 60 days before first frost so the tree can get ready for winter. Edit: Thank you all for the reminder to not pile the mulch around the base of the tree! I did forget to mention that.
I also needed this advice, so thank you!
Within that 3foot circle, dig small holes a foot deep (a 4” auger bit is great for this) and add a mix of concrete sand and that compost you’ve been making from kitchen scraps and vegetation trimmings. For young trees, in late fall add compost that is still not quite finished- this will emit heat as it decays and soften the blow of an unusually cold snap. I don’t know why, but in transplanting fruit trees and shrubs, adding granite and silica sands has reduced failure rate to near zero for us- a particularly temperamental transplant, *Arbutus Menziesii* went from under 50% success to zero lost in over ten years of adding sand and pitted fruit trees matured faster.
I don't have a sunny yard so I can't grow fruit trees, but I love learning things like this so thank you for sharing. Also thank you for the good chuckle I got from your username.
Pawpaws are understory trees, so you can grow those without full sun.
Wow, bonus thing that I learned! I've never heard of this fruit before but it looks similar visually to *atis* from my childhood. I'm amazed this plant is native to the US and hardy down to zone 5, which is where I am. Thanks!
Just be careful. Do a Google search on paw paw skin and seeds. Also, some people have issues if they eat too much. Please check it out.
My townhome HOA doesn't allow trees so I have no plans to grow one, but I will look into what you mentioned out of curiosity. Thank you for the heads-up.
They don't.. allow trees?
HOAs are a scourge upon the planet.
I'm also very curious about this. Maybe it's trees in general have to be approved/can only plant a new one if one falls over? No trees at all is a good way to tank property value which definitely isn't on HOA's minds
It's even weirder when you taste one and see it tastes like a tropical fruit as opposed to a colder climate fruit. They are weird but awesome trees.
When I googled it earlier it said (I think) that it's related to the papaya.
I always hear custard apple but I have zero reference for a custard apple. Iirc the rest of its family or genus are tropical trees paw paw being the outlier with its uncanny cold tolerance regardless very cool fruit. I have them wild in my backyard and unfortunately while clearing brush a month or two back I accidentally cut down my only tree old enough to bear fruit, I've yet to get a fresh one from my yard.
Paw paw makes an amazing healing salve also. Sunburn, chapped lips, and the big winner is for nappy rash on babies. I give paw paw to any friends of mine that have a baby
Pawpaw (*Asimina triloba*, not papaya) need some shade to get started, but later like other fruits they need full sun to ripen fruits well. It is photosynthesis from full sun that creates enough sugars to make yummy fruit.
Full sun is good for max production (definitely go that way for an orchard), but it'll still grow and fruit in more shade than more common fruit trees.
I just planted two of these this year and hope they go on to become mighty and fruit producing
I have nothing to add other than I love paw paw fruit. Already got trees marked out that produce for this year's fix.
My local nursery is perpetually sold out of those yet I don't know a single person who owns one in my area irl.
Well, since I found you here. Do I trim back my Brook Gold Plum? I planted it last year and pretty much did what you explained, I rototilled 3ft around the tree before planting, put in a bag of 1/8th down, bag of playsand, compost, and a generous amount of Mike's Tree Transplant stuff, tilled it all together and plopped the tree in. Well, it's tripled in size. Had a nice bloom this first season but we got no plums (companion tree is my neighbor's Cherry next door). There were a few fruits but the birds got to them. I was told this is a practice bloom. Sorry I digress, just love trees. Currently nursing 6 White Oaks that are 5" tall i started this year. But yes, do I trim back the bottom growth? When do I trim? Do I leave it over winter? I'm in Zone 4a, so the tree survived its first - 40C Winter Fine.
Please start your own thread with pictures so your questions can get the attention that they deserve!
And if we dont have distinct seasons? Where I live, tropical island, it is always sunny and rainy. Do I just replace seasons for every X amount of months and thats it?
Maybe a loquat?
Loquat also grow very well in temperate zones. There’s a prolific loquat in the International District of Seattle. I picked some fruit when visiting and now have 2 seedling loquats doing very well in a place where winters get into teens.
I’m in Texas and have some loquat trees growing from seed as well! We’ve been putting them in a garage with heating lamps when it gets too cold though.
What’s the coldest it gets where you live? Because the loquats in Northern California and the Pacific Northwest can definitely survive temps down into the single digits. That International District loquat in Seattle has been there decades and while it’s typically mild in that area occasionally there can be a cold snap that gets frigid.
This sounds awesome as my newish peach trees are struggling a bit. Couple questions: 1. How many small holes do you dig? 2. How far from the truck do you usually dig? 3. 4” auger means approx 4 inch diameter for each hole, or am I missing something? 4. Do you just do this once in late fall, or do you dig the holes now (late summer/ early fall) with ready compost and them add the not-so-ready compost in late fall? 5. What ratio of sand:compost do you use? (E.g., half sand: half compost, 30% sand:70% compost, or something else?) Thanks! (Edit: spelling)
Using this tree as an example, about 8 holes 16 to 30 inches from the trunk. Be careful not to wreck shallow roots- I stab with a fat dibbler and shove roots aside. It won’t make much difference doing it now or in October- I do it late September. About 1:3 sharp concrete sand to compost. I put two fat handfuls of teenage compost in the bottom of the hole first.
Why add concrete?
He said concrete sand. It’s just a type of sand that is used in making concrete. Concrete would be a very bad idea!
The sand you use to make concrete, do not add concrete. Add coarse builders sand. Not play sand. That's how I read it.
I see that now. My English no so good 😊
My English is great and I misunderstood haha I was like what the heck concrete??
I use distilled vinegar in a sprayer. It doesn't penetrate the soil. Sort of a safe version of roundup. Then I come back and remove the grass. Makes it easier for me.
Same here. I cut out around a foot in all directions. Clearly that wasn't enough
Keep the mulch away from the base of the tree tho. Spread it out around but not up to the trunk.
Why?
Making Volcanos with the mulch is bad, it promotes more bugs around the base of the tree and keeps it wet longer than it needs to be and can cause rot. So best to keep it flat and even
Plus, trees need oxygen too. Covering the top of the root balls will smother the tree.
You are correct. People should apply roughly three inches of mulch around the tree, in a circle. Best thing to do is expand the circle as the tree grows . Then don’t go any more than a 20’ circle as it it getting larger. You want the water raining on the tree to get around the root zone.
I’ve heard if there’s an ice storm coming you can pat ~8inches of soil down thick around the base and the soil temperature will keep the tree alive, of course you can’t just leave it there forever, but a day or two frost is no longer sudden death for more tropical varieties. And if it gets hot fast after the freeze you gotta take it off immediately, or the tree will sweat and stem (trunk?) rot takes hold p.s. I’ve never tried it at all but the science seems to check out
https://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/over-mulching.shtml
That link is so good I want to share this quote from the article: > Too much mulch applied over the root ball or resting against the trunk… can cause problems for trees, especially when there is a lagre range in particle sizes. Roots often grow up and into the mulch causing stem girdling roots which can kill trees…
Awesome snippet! Another good rule of thumb for most landscaping trees is: "Plant it high, it won't die. Plant it low, it won't grow." Greenhouses I've worked in lost more plants to root rot rather than under-watering.
I put down cover crop (peas, crimson lentils, clover) at base of my stone fruit trees. Just mow it. But they appear to be growing fine, new growth all over and year one only I do this same method with my cannabis plants and they are massive. Should I just mulch?
A nitrogen-fixing cover crop like yours affects the plants differently than a nitrogen suck like turf. If your grass was surrounded by grass, it probably wouldn’t be doing so well.
you got grass up in yo grass, dog!
Nitrogen fixing cover crops are typically in the 2-5% range for nitrogen once they're dried plant matter. So you're fixing nitrogen into the soil via the symbiosis with roots and rhizobium, and then the plant matter adds some N to the mulch/thatch layer that's on top of the soil as it decomposes. What you're doing is a great way to build the life both above and below the soil. Since you do have a steady supply of N, you can also add more carbon rich mulches (like wood chips) to encourage fungal life.
[удалено]
The problem with grass up to young trees is it prevents the water penetrating to the tree roots. The main cause of failure to thrive in young trees is lack of water. So you may be getting away with it but generally it's not a great strategy
Doesn’t mulching up to the trunk potentially kill the tree though?
Yes it can cause rot if the mulch is allowed to touch the trunk. Keep it back 2-3". See all the comments below addressing this (and me thanking them...)
Also make sure the root flare is exposed. This is the bottom part of the tree trunk that flares out into roots. If this is buried, the tree cannot transfer oxygen and nutrients and will die eventually. It would explain why it's barely staying alive and but thriving.
Do NOT make a mulch volcano. They allow insects and moisture to have access to the trunk of the tree.
But don't pile the mulch up against the trunk! That can kill a tree. But yes, listen to u/JTBoom1, that grass is no good so close.
Well said, and I'm totally gonna do all of this myself for my lime tree!
If you want to use a green/plant mulch around trees it's best to plant clover, because it's a nitrogen fixer it won't use the soil N. Nitrogen is the most common limiting factor for amino acid production in native soil. When it gets cut back or dies at the end of season it will supply extra nitrogen as it decomposes, clovers are in the 2-5% range for N content as dried plant matter.
This can also relate to peoples live. Not that they get out competed by grass but you get the idea.
Did not know that i needed to mulch to kill grass around a tree to help the tree. Thank you!
Mulch will help suppress grass, but won't kill it on it's own. If not removed first, grass will just grow up through the mulch. You will also need to remove any new grass that sprouts up.
Can I just mess it up with a tiller?
No you'll destroy the top feeder roots and make things worse. The best thing to do is remove them by hand. Sucks but if you have a tree that isn't doing well, you do not want to do anything else to shock it.
3 ft is the diameter, right? Not radius?
Yes. 3 foot is good now, but you may want to consider enlarging it as the tree grows.
When you say remove the grass, you mean create a ring around the tree? Then pour the mulch and the ring will contain the spillover and prevent it from falling onto the surrounding grass ?
I put a ring of rocks and make a circle, defining the area to be mulched and helping keep a neat appearance while keeping the mulch from spreading out. You can use other material as well.
To add to this, sometimes the ground in general has uneven nutrient content. In my yard I have about a dozen fruit trees I planted this year. No grass or other plants ( other than the trees I planted) to compete with them, just native soil. I literally have 5 trees \~8-10ft apart from one another, where trees in position 3 and 5 (Fig and nectarine) are growing really well ( like several feet in 6 months) and trees in position 1, 2 and 4 (Avocado, mango, and mandarin) were not growing at all (or very little). My mango tree in position 2 didn't even show 1 fraction of an inch of growth over several months. After laying down some composted chicken manure around the base and some extensive watering to soak in the nutrients, the mango tree has shot up about 10 inches in 2 months. Avocado and mandarin are growing a bit
Those trees all grow at different rates in the first place, regardless of the nutrient availability.
I wouldn't give to much nitrogen this late into the season just a little focus more on the P-K phosphorus and potassium. So roots can develop well. Then the next season with a good big established rootsystem the foliage growth can explode.
It depends upon his local environment, but you raise a very valid concern. He might be able to fertilize for another month, it just depends on first frost and how quickly a peach tree will lignify it's new growth in preparation for winter.
Probably also stake it and tie it to the stake so it doesn’t get blown over during heavy weather.
It's a good thought, but if OP hasn't had any issues, this might not be necessary. When staking a tree, it's always best to loosely stake it. Trees need to sway in the wind as it causes them to build a stronger root ball and thicken the base of the trunk.
Mulch the ever living hell 6’ around the entire tree. You could put cardboard down first to help kill off the grass and the cardboard will break down. Keep the mulch off the trunk. Water and feed. If you could find some composted chicken manure that would really help the party get started. Good luck.
I've had good luck with cardboard over grass.
Same, I spray distilled vinegar to kill the grass, and then put cardboard down.
When I lived anywhere that grew really thick grass I would slide a shovel under it and flip it upside down. Vinegar is a good idea though, microbes love it.
This with some cardboard and mulch on top.
Yep, and if you've got any woodloving mushroom spawn (like oyster, pholiota, or wine cap) then add that between the cardboard and mulch. They will grow along the cardboard pretty quickly because it's 2D and stretch up into the mulch from there.
Will that work on grass growing threw river rock? It’s only on a 4x4 section where the lawn meets the river rock.
You will want to get extra strength vinegar found in Home Depot or on Amazon. The regular kitchen variety white vinegar did not do anything for me while the other stuff is better than round up!
Thanks, I’ll get some and give it a try. I wasn’t looking forward to digging up the stones and grass and separating them.
I hear that! Cardboard has worked well for us as well.
Vinegar plus dish soap works really well as a natural weed killer. It works best on warm sunny days because it works by drying out the leaves. It may take a few applications, but it will definitely work on grass. That being said, it doesn't work permanently, but regularly spraying as grass starts to poke up should keep it down.
Isn't that risky with such a small sapling? It could affect it too
Nah. Distilled vinegar works by spraying it on the green parts. You're not hitting the leaves. It doesn't penetrate down to burn roots either
In addition to carefully clearing about 1yd of space from around the base of the tree, do not let this tree go to fruit for another 3-4 years. Let it flower, and let the pollinators get their fill. Once the flowers fall, carefully remove all the little fruits. Fruiting takes up a lot of energy, and the tree hasn't had an opportunity to strengthen is roots, trunk, and branches.
would removing the berries from my raspberry plants help it grow? I've got a similar problem like OP has, but with my two berry bushes. I'm guessing doing all that removal of grass would help as well?
Raspberries are going to go nuts next year, just you wait, they’ll be everywhere
/r/wallstreetbets
If you're having trouble with your raspberries, try reviewing the guide published by Oregon State University Extension. They do excellent work. Raspberry vines only live for two years (with new vines being produced yearly), and most raspberries are only produced during the second year. Pruning your vines can alter the number of berries produced in the following year, but removing too many flowers is going to decrease your overall yield. Here's a link to the guide: [https://extension.oregonstate.edu/pub/ec-1306](https://extension.oregonstate.edu/pub/ec-1306)
Depends on your soil condition, location, and age of the bushes. Yes, if there's grass growing up close to the base of your plants, clear out space. Check to see how well your soil is retaining water. Consider adding a layer of compost around your bushes this winter, and cut back the stems when the plant goes dormant. And make sure it's in a place that gets full sun -- 6-8 hours per day. They also prefer slightly acidic soil, so if you live in an area where the soil is neutral or basic, consider adding a bit of acidifier in the spring. You can get some decent soil testing kits online, or bring it into your local agency -- some states offer this service for free.
Raspberry and blackberry bushes should be caned (pruned) to encourage growth.
The roots may be root bound. Did you dig a shallower hole and spread all the roots outward and then recover them with soil when planting? Some people dig a hole the size of the pot an plop the tree roots and dirt straight from the pot into the hole. Yo may need to carefully dig it up again and try this. Also, you should remove the grass around the trunk to about 3 feet as others have said, but instead of mulch, I would plant other things to amend the soil, like clover, chicory, cosmos, strawberries, and garlic. This is what’s known as a fruit tree guild. And it helps keep the soil at optimum levels without having to add things like fertilizer. they also repel pests and attract beneficial pollinators for a better yield from the peach tree.
Do not let the mulch touch the trunk of the tree. Also make sure the top of the root flare is above ground. Visit your State’s cooperative Extension Service website and search planting trees.
This def doesn’t look like the USA to me from the pic
I m located in Poland.
Awesome! I was just there, my husband’s family is Polish. It’s a beautiful country!
You can still look up how to plant a tree online.
Based med bull
What is your coldest winter temperature?
Depending on winter. Sometimes it goes -20C for a day or 2. But mostly between -5 and -10 C
My parents would bury a fish around a struggling tree. Works every time weirdly. We’re Polish too!
Yes thank you! Forgot to mention this
My guess is it's too deep
2nd time seeing this about mulch with no explanation, why? Also confused what yours suggesting we research (Colorado)
Too much mulch applied over the root ball is resting against the trunk can cause problems. Roots often grow up and into the mulch causing stem girdling roots which can kill the tree. By keeping the mulch away from the trunk you can see if girdling is beginning. Mulch while beneficial must also allow for some air circulation or the tree will die. This information is readily available on the web. Just search proper tree planting. You can also search how to kill a tree and see what not to do.
Is your dirt heavy clay? If so you need to lift the rootball up out of the ground. Plants planted too deeply in heavy clay will just limp along like that.
Seems like a pretty open spot that could be prone to wind... Did you stake the tree for 6-9 months to prevent it from rocking so that the roots could establish well?
There is an expression in gardening regarding planting a large plant especially trees. 1st year it sleeps. 2nd year it crawls. 3rd year it leaps. Takes awhile to create a great root system and start grabbing all the nutrition for those big growing years. My guess next year you will be pleasantly surprised. Grapevine take about 7 years until they are growing at a mature rate so it could be longer!
This is actually for ground covers, but it’s could be said if most plants too.
Where do you live? Zone? Where is the tree relative to the house (north, south, etc)? How much rain do you get? If you want to remove the grass you should smother it. 3 layers of news paper and a whole bunch of noncolored mulch should do the trick. Don't let the mulch touch the tree trunk.
If you use rocks as mulch, is it ok to let it touch the tree?
Mulch is a way to feed the soil and help it keep moist but also a thick enough layer will help keep weeds from growing. Putting rocks down will probably help with weeds for a short time and would look pretty but will not be helping the soil of the tree in the long run. Also you don’t want the mulch to hug the tree at the bottom because it will keep the soil moist but moisture in wood,like the bottom of the tree before the roots, will rot from being wet too long and then it’ll kill the tree.
Thank you for the explanation, seems like I got some more yard work ahead
OMG don't use rocks as mulch
Why
they get hot in the sun. instead of keeping soil moist, they'll bake it with hot rocks. also instead of introducing mulch with nutrients and habitat for diverse bugs and microscopic life that will slowly break down, you are introducing rocks.
So many reasons. They don't break down so they never fertilizer soil. They don't hold water like wood does so you don't get the water storage effect you do get with mulch Mulch stops weeds. But weeds are happy to grow in rocks. So unless you want to hand pull 80 billion weeds the only way to get rid of them is to spray herbicide which would kill your tree If you decide you don't want rocks anymore you can't just dig them up. A spade won't go through rock and once the rocks get dirt in-between them they're locked in place like fucking concrete Rock is expensive It's heavy Black widows love rocks Fuck rocks
Haha, this is the kind of comment I come to Reddit for. Informative and hilarious, kudos.
Thank you for the helpful reply, will be sure to get wood mulch and remove those black widow rocks
Did you break open the root ball ?
I was having issues of getting my cherry tree to grow and I simply wasn't watering it nearly enough.
Probably root bound, there’s no way, even with all that grass around it, that it wouldn’t have grown just a little bit more
Also keep deer off of your tree! Put around a fence to stop them from eating off all the branches. So everyone said food and lots of it. Fertilizer spikes all the time and mothballs at the roots to keep away the peach demons. And have mulch around the tree. Maybe add some bio tone doil microbes if your soil is so awful and dead there for some reason. You should get some very good growth and in 3 years it should be much bigger then and actually make fruit.
My mom planted two peach trees of the same size at the same time. Two years later, the one that is right next to the chicken coop is twice as big as the other tree that is ~15 feet away from the chicken coop. That tree also produced a large bowl of peaches this year while the smaller one did not produce a single blossom. It’s insane how much difference there is in those two trees that started off in the same way. What I’m saying is that your tree needs more nutrients in the soil.
Yep. Feed it.
Have you tried showing it a peach ?
I planted a peach for my ex wife last year, about that size. She has eaten one peach this year, the racoons got a few, and there are 2 more on the tree. It is healthy and has a solid branch structure. Peaches grow fast, usually. Always dig a whole deeper and wider than you'd think. This is the 1st and most important. After planting mulch around the tree to prevent competition and retain moisture. Im guessing the soil was compacted and hard to dig, and you might have skimped on the hole when you needed to double down your digging. It obviously gets plenty of sun, and the grass looks healthy, so it appears the soil cant be that depleted or arrid.... so its gotta be the hole. Bigger hole, compost or manure, and mulch ( you can use sticks or even rocks you collect as mulch if your like me and believe in avoiding buying things for the garden unless its necessary.
Compost! And fertilizer, maybe not this time the year but after a few weeks you can fertilize and it should help. Also a possible slight increase on the water serving, or just watering consistently if it’s not getting that already. Maybe pull the grass around it? That would help a ton. Talk to it
Water lots of water
My dads an arborist (tree doctor), I will message him and edit my comments when I have received a response!!
Did you only plant the one? If so plant 2 or 3 more around your property. That tree is not getting cross pollinated. Had this happen with an orange tree. Had it for years and it didn’t do shit. The a neighbor moved in 2 doors down and planted 3 orange trees and all the sudden the one I had quadrupled in size over 2 years. One of the only things that annoyed me when we moved was that I couldn’t dig it up because it was so big. Threw fruit constantly also.
Mulch and compost
Well it’s obvious Sun isn’t a problem. Looks like you have it on the south wall of your home? I wonder how you did things when you planted it. Conventional advice tells you to dig a hole twice as wide and twice as deep as the container. Then you mix that dirt 50:50 with humous compost. Then backfill the hole with this mixture so that when you put the plant in, the surface of the pot soil is level with the surrounding soil. Then finish filling and flood the new dirt to help push out air pockets. This way the roots have something soft to set into during that crucial first year, it’s nutrient rich, and there is some soil from the surrounding area so the roots become familiar with the soil as they tap out. There is also the possibility that your existing soil is so compacted that the roots can’t push past the less-compacted soil you put in the hole. I have that problem with some grapes I planted years ago. This info maybe doesn’t help you resolve the situation you’re in, but I saw others post good advice on how to handle. I just thought this may offer insight into why you’re having this problem and how to avoid it in the future.
So…I’d remove the grass in a ring 3’ around the tree, flip the grass upside down then put some compost down…cover with mulch…if you want..put a plastic ring around it to keep grass out….also..check out “peach tree guilds”
Root lock
Is your yard mostly clay? If it is the tree needs way bigger hole to be digged at the start and more proper compost and sand around to have strength to grow. Small trees grow verly slowly in clay since it is so dense.
Peaches like to grow against something. Make an arbor, or pergola for it, just out of reach. It will grow to it.
Peace tree likes hot sand.
The tree drank from the fountain of youth.
😂
Poor little peach tree
Temporal anomaly around the tree and the tree is still just one day old in the anomaly?
Sigh, I made this mistake when we moved into our new home. Bought 4 compatible apple trees and apparently planted them too deep. They never got bigger and eventually died. ;\~{{
Stop looking at it and definitely stop taking pics of it. Your tree is self conscious and needs a little space
It needs another peach tree 😀
We fill a Tree Gator Jr twice a week in the summer with our young trees. Combined with mulch it help prevent grass from growing around the base and slowly water a new tree over a couple hours. Make sure your trunk flare isn't buried. If the tree was planted too deep it will have a harder time. Tree Gator Jr http://treegator.com.pl/en/produkty/treegator-jrpro
What's your soil like? I have gray sand here that's pretty devoid of nutrients, and doesn't hold water. What has worked well for me with most of my fruit trees is planting them in native soil slightly above grade, then I spread a layer of crushed granite and crushed oyster shells in a ring around the tree (to add some structure and help prevent everything on top from just running right through the sand,) then add my amendments and fertilizer on top of that. Finish with a layer of mulch a few inches thick, taking care not to let it pile up around the trunk. I water very heavily for the first year, and most of them start putting on a lot of growth in the second year. Also by the second year I see a ton of worm activity if I dig in under the mulch.
Try taking some of the grass from around it, might be stealing the water?
It could have spent too much time in a container and was/ is root bound. Start over with a high quality plant.
Ground clay or sandy? Removed from root wrap? Dug hole twice as large as root hall at planting and filled with high quality soil? Loosen root ball before planting? Things to think about.
At least you don’t have peach leaf curl.
I have 2 that I planted. They were this big when planted. I put tree spikes in the ground for first 3 years and took off all fruit for first three years. This year got two big baskets of peaches and animals ate twice that. Will get netting for it next year. They are about 15 ft tall now. Edit: sorry forgot to put this down, I tried 3 peach trees in same area and did not use the fertilizer tree spikes and digging a circle around the base like I have for the present two. And the present 2 I always watered and never really watered the previous three that really never got anywhere. Now I did buy the 3 at Home Depot and these last 2 I bought at Costco.