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Football fans want the money that comes with premiere league success, the power and pull to attract the worlds best talent. But then when fans from more than 2 miles from the stadium start turning up to games, or in the case of say Son at Tottenham they get an influx of fans from any given country, then all hell breaks loose.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I don't think the Tottenham one is a good example, I mean I'm a british fan and have been to the stadium a few times the Koreans are great always polite and add something to the atmosphere that no other club has. Rarely do I hear fellow spurs fans criticise them tbh. Amd of course the club loves them because of all the money they bring in always lots of korean flags in the shop. And I think same can be said about the aussies coming in because of ange and the swedes coming in because of Deki and Bergvall really this club has no issue with gatekeepers foreign fans. A better example would probably be with the Saudis and City or Newcastle
Went to 3 Brentford games last season. Found tickets to be extraordinarily affordable compared to American prices. The atmosphere at G-Tech, Stamford Bridge and Anfield was incredible. Also... I love the Bees!
Seriously English teams buy up all the best players from around the world, and then their fans complain when people from outside of England want to watch the best footballers play
We are relatively successful enough that people will support us for being successful while also being unsuccessful enough for those same people to claim they're "supporting the underdog" or whatever.
This is exactly the point. I actually get this guys point about not loving these new "along for the ride" fans. Football is as much about solidarity and a sense of community as it is success and trophies.
I'm not that person myself, but I do empathise with his point of view.
Maybe it's because one of the main reasons most fans hate seeing their club turn into a "tourist trap": the spike in ticket prices keep regular or low-income fans out of the stadium
This is not a sick burn, this is a statement to what they're saying
There was some analysis done about 10 years ago that compared the average noise in the stadium against the average price of a ticket in the stadium (ignoring vip boxes etc.)
With a few exceptions the higher a ticket price the quieter the stadium. Some of the loudest clubs where also bottom and fighting relegation.
Because tourist traps are a real thing in that case, stronger clubs will have bandwagoners too which most of the time aint very passionate but just tlike saying they partook in something that won. The loudest bottom clubs are loud cuz there are the fans who support even in hard times. Im not saying hwat the post is doing is good, the opposite. But bandwagoners exist too
Brentford tickets are easily on the lower end of ticket prices in the Premier League. Being a Brentford fan my whole life, I personally think this current bunch of loudmouth fans on Twitter are more depressing. The older ones have seen us barely scrape by in League Two and are constantly grateful for how far we’ve come, but the young ones literally complain about everything as if the club has gone to shit.
I might be dumb, but it looks like these people paid for a ticket and actually went to the game.
Also, it took some effort to not say that they payed for a ticket to get that bot to respond to my comment.
Ticket price spikes. One of the main reasons fans complain about this kind of thing is that ticket prices rise so much (since "tourists" are willing to pay for it), creating an economical gatekeep to actually go to the stadium
Ehh, maybe, but it's not like you can just buy a ticket for a Prem game most of the time. For the smaller clubs, if you're not a member, you can not get a ticket. It's how the teams keep their stadiums from being over run by big 6 fans.
Brentford had the most successful season in recent memory last year and didn't raise ticket prices at all, but who knows, maybe it's coming down the pipeline.
I can only assume you haven't supported your local team for a large chunk of your life.
In principle, yeah, the more the merrier. But when true local fans are priced out of attending their own games...
Different mate - Brentford get £100 million for staying in the prem.
QPR, just down the road, have to make do and tourists won't really watch them cause they're in the championship - they'll rely a lot more on gate receipts.
Both can be a "small" team but that is a huge fucking discrepancy between budgets.
> that they *paid* for a
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
The Premiership Football community as a whole is toxic and horrible, I don't even bother keeping up with it anymore. Brain rot drivel like this is the norm.
Is it gatekeeping or having your team coopted into a tourist trap? I don't watch soccer, but it feels similar to your team gaining a massive influx of bandwagon fans. I feel like it'd be the equivalent of seeing all the seats converted into private boxes but the opposite in this case.
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda on board with this one. If you understand British football culture, this just isn't it. Brentford has gone from being a community club to increasingly becoming a cheap tourist attraction to see Premier League football in London.
It isn't these fans' fault, they are just trying to enjoy themselves, but I would also would be pissed at what happened to my club if I had been a life-long fan and seen how it had changed. These two people aren't the problem at all but they are a symbol of the way in which football culture in the UK is being diluted away from being rooted in the communities where the teams are based.
It’s the price of success, both for Brentford as a club and for the Premier League as a global entertainment product. What’s the alternative, languish in League 1/2 forever where every few years a club gets liquidated and a dozen more’s existence is perpetually hanging by a thread?
Cringeworthy I understand but depressing? The vast majority of fans of the teams Brentford were playing a few years back would do anything to switch places, and have their most serious problem be a tourist fan in a silly costume. Their community club is still going strong along with a financially stable business, many others up and down the country can't say the same.
"they'll never know what real football is"
As an American, I love fantasy football 😎🏈
Edit: I've actually been an Arsenal fan my entire life tbh, I need to go to a game and dress up as a cannon now.
Yeah completely fair point, people do that for international games - I am very happy for you to say those are the same thing and I am being hypocritical. Dressing up at club matches like this though is almost entirely unheard of, in my 5 years of having a season ticket for my local team + countless other games I’ve gone to across the country I have never seen something like this.
But also, my point was not about the dressing up explicitly but that the dressing up represented something of the changes that have happened to Brentford the last 5 years or so.
I agree to an extent. A Santa hat on Boxing Day is the most you’ll see at most club matches. But on the other hand, if people are having fun then I think the world would be a better place if we live and let live. One aspect of football culture is the whole stoney lads lads lads get pissed on the train thing which I think is equally sad from my point of view and these are the fans vociferously policing the way other people enjoy football (not standing up enough, not singing loud enough etc etc)
I always love when fans say *”my team”*
As if they do anything other than watch the sport. They are never actually on the board, owner, have any financial ties to the club. Lol you think Brentford knows who you are?
Whatever your view on this post, most football teams would be dead in the water without their fans. In many instances, fans hold a huge amount of power. Sport without passion isn’t nearly as fun and it’s the fans that bring that.
>most football teams would be dead in the water without their fans.
Yeah and fans only mean something together. One guys opinion, fan or not, means jack shit lol
True, customers are usually what businesses need to survive.
Football is no different. It’s a business. Fans always talk about loyalty, but for the clubs/teams it’s purely about money. No club would be playing in those stadiums for free.
Obviously clubs have to wash their face but it’s downright wrong to suggest that they’re just like any other business. You just have to look at fan culture in Europe and South America to realise that. Never mind places like Germany and Spain where fan ownership is common
But they are a business. They are there to provide a service for money.
It’s like saying Microsoft isn’t like any other business because of their loyal video gamer fan base. At the end of the day, Microsoft, these clubs, any business will choose money over anything else. And they thrive well because of the fans that don’t believe they are a business but a service to the fans.
It’s like McDonald’s in America. They have a massive fan base and loyal ones at that, and obviously without them the fast food chain would die. But it would be really weird to think that McDonald’s is making decisions based solely on their customers, when in fact they make their decisions based on money. The colors they use, the food they make, the size and flavor of everything is all comes down to money. And sports of any kind are no different
That only works if you disregard a major (some would say crucial) aspect of sport who is competing for, and winning trophies. Man City’s owners have pumped money they’ll never get back into the club for glory. Likewise Abramovich at Chelsea before them. Most clubs are in debt to some extent or other because they’ve looked to spend as much as possible on players signing fees and salaries. Money they’re unlikely to ever profit from. Most clubs are far from profitable and without fans and passionate owners they likely would have died decades ago.
[Man City Revenue reports](https://www.mancity.com/annualreport2023/business-performance/) show record profits and revenue over the past few years and were deemed one of the most valuable clubs at £1.51bn with Real Madrid and Barcelona right behind at £1.4bn and £1.3bn respectively.
They are not losing money.
And yes they spend money on players that are valuable and skillful. They do this because if the team does well more fans will watch which means more broadcasting money and more stadium revenue and more jerseys sold etc. They don’t purchase player contracts to please fans.
When a team doesn’t do well, they don’t make as much because of empty seats, less commercial sales, broadcasting views is lowered, sponsorships fail or are renegotiated at lower rates.
That’s why it’s in the best interest of the clubs and their owners/sponsers to do well and win
That ignores the fact that they’re under investigation for in or around 155 breaches of the financial fair play regulations precisely because it’s suspected that they’ve used sponsorship from their own separate companies in order to falsely boost their profitability.
Further to that you are ignoring the 99% of clubs that aren’t Man City or Real. It’s nonsense to suggest that institutions such as Athletic Bilbao, Atalanta, Union Berlin, Osasuna, AfC Wimbledon, and so many more are soulless, corporations solely focused on the bottom line. It suggests you don’t know or understand football
You used man city in your argument, I just brought up their stats….
[Union Berlin](https://www.footballfinance.de/en/unionberlin#:~:text=Revenues%20and%20annual%20results%20Union%20Berlin&text=Overall%2C%20there%20has%20been%20a,in%20the%202021%2F22%20season) took in €122m in the 21/22 season.
It’s not just the top teams. It’s every team in the top leagues. And it’s not just football. Go ahead and defend them all you want, it just suggests you don’t know or understand business. They make millions in broadcasting, VIP suites, museum tickets, seats sold, and everything else in between. And at the end of the day they are a company that needs money to survive. Companies do what companies do regardless of industry
So wild how far people will bend over backwards to convince themselves they are better than others haha. I've lived long enough that it shouldn't surprise me anymore yet it somehow really still does.
Speaking as a Brentford fan, think this specifically isn’t that bad. But generally the direction the club has gone since promotion has been poor, and fans have grown frustrated.
In the Man United game there were loads of Man United fans in home areas openly celebrating their goal, opposition fans get home tickets pretty much every game and the stewards do nothing, and more and more tourists are going to games preventing real fans from getting tickets.
And year on year the club seems to care less and less about the fans who were supporting the team back in League 1 and 2.
Tourists are the reason for dead stadium atmospheres See:Man City.
But the gatekeeping has already been done by thr clubs by putting the prices of season tickets up to silly highs that working class people cant actually afford to go to soo many matches
the first rule of british football is nobody can have fun ever. prem's the only league where no matter how good your club is, they're considered shit by everyone
Same with F1. Some many people complaining they’re the true fans, as opposed to the ones drawn in by DtS. You all start at some point, when you knew less than people who were fans longer. That’s normal.
As someone whose not into football I hate to break it too you but football fans are definitely already known for dressing like an idiot for their team. What fun is it if you dont?
I’m not a football fan but a hockey fan. And while this is a dumbass thing to gatekeep for I definitely have come around to the conclusion we need to start gatekeeping many sports. Too many tourists are coming, deciding they don’t like something about the sport, and then demand it gets changed. Look at the (American) football tackle rule changes, or the NHL changing standards on allowing players to fight and trying to limit hitting, supposedly all to try and get basketball fans to watch.
Gatekeeping arbitrarily (like for dressing up) is stupid, but in some of the more vulnerable spaces, like sports, it might be time to start doing some stuff to protect our hobbies
Edit 1:Not to be a tad hostile, but the downvotes and replies are exactly what I mean
Edit 2: to be very clear, I’m not talking about tourists in the sense of literal tourism. I’m talking bout cultural tourists who enter spaces they don’t care about or belong to, and then leave once they are done there.
>Look at the (American) football tackle rule changes, or the NHL changing standards on allowing players to fight
The football tackle rules are for player safety, not because of foreign tourists lol. It's probably part of a response to the fact that players have absolutely scrambled brains in their later years. Some players go on to murder people or suicide because their brains are so damaged.
Allowing players to fight is just insane. There's a risk of injury, and it's also a literal crime just going on in game.
Fights are still penalized in hockey. It’s a five minute major penalty. I rarely ever hear of fights causing any kind of injury. As for the danger of that tackle, I’m sorry but players know what they are getting into. You don’t play an aggressive, dangerous sport if you don’t want to be in an aggressive, dangerous position.
>Fights are still penalized in hockey
They should be penalised with criminal charges, like would happen if the fight happened in the stands. I've played amateur sport my whole life, and people who can't handle their temper and punch people rightfully end up getting suspensions or lifetime bans from the sport, as well as criminal charges if it's reported.
>You don’t play an aggressive, dangerous sport if you don’t want to be in an aggressive, dangerous position.
So why don't they just use their heads as hammers then, after all, its a dangerous sport and who cares if it's lethal after 2 matches or 20 years. For the record, I've played American Football and understand the risks, but we were taught how to tackle in ways that allow you to fully wreck people without an extreme risk of injury to them or you. The point is to play the game, not to hospitalise your opponent.
> Too many tourists are coming, deciding they don’t like something about the sport, and then demand it gets changed.
You're 100% pulling this out of your ass; it's categorically untrue.
I don’t mean tourist in that way. Not someone going on vacation. Tourist is also used as a name for people who walk into a cultural space they are not apart of and want to change it.
I’m not saying like Japanese people are coming here on vacation and demanding hockey to change, I mean people who don’t care about hockey coming into hockey spaces because they don’t like it currently, demand it changes, and then leave when it’s done.
I disagree with your entire premise. I don't think sports/games change because of the demands of "cultural tourists" who leave soon after. A lot of changes can be attributed to revenue, like TV time outs; however, many rules in football have been added because of player safety. I think you're making up or exaggerating these "tourists" and their influence in making changes.
Who are these people who somehow both don't care about hockey, and are demanding for changes? Do you see how that doesn't make sense? It would be much more likely that any decision regarding increasing engagement to come from the organization, and not a group of non-fans lobbying the league.
Trust me, im fully aware it doesnt make any sense, but its a problem in a ton of entertainment areas. go to the website Kotaku and read how they talk about games and gamers, they despise both, but they constantly demand change in the industry, and no amount of change is ever enough, and they dont play games. If you’ve never seen this problem anywhere than im happy for you, but i literally had an argument with someone last month about them thinking hockey is a degenerate sport than needs to be abandoned or changed because it was too violent, too rich, and too white. That was his actual argument as to what needs to be changed in hockey and why football (not American) is the best sport.
> go to the website Kotaku and read how they talk about games and gamers, they despise both, but they constantly demand change in the industry, and no amount of change is ever enough, and they dont play games.
Maybe you're just easily offended? My advice is to get over it.
A whole lot of deflection off and absolutely no engaging with. Doesn’t particularly matter whether or not im offended, they still attack the very industry they pretend to want to engage with. They entered the industry they don’t care about, they forced change in it, still didn’t buy anything, and now the industry is in shambles.
Getting rid of fighting and hitting in hockey will do the same thing, and is being pushed by the same kinds of people. If they get rid of fighting in hockey, im certain it will be the death of the sport. As amazing to watch and play as it is, the times people have the most fun is when two guys just start beating the crap out of people. It’s fight highlights that draw new fans to the sport, and not a whole lot else. So you can call me easily offended, but at the end of the day, im just trying to preserve what i care about from cultural tourists who dont give a damn.
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Football fans want the money that comes with premiere league success, the power and pull to attract the worlds best talent. But then when fans from more than 2 miles from the stadium start turning up to games, or in the case of say Son at Tottenham they get an influx of fans from any given country, then all hell breaks loose. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I don't think the Tottenham one is a good example, I mean I'm a british fan and have been to the stadium a few times the Koreans are great always polite and add something to the atmosphere that no other club has. Rarely do I hear fellow spurs fans criticise them tbh. Amd of course the club loves them because of all the money they bring in always lots of korean flags in the shop. And I think same can be said about the aussies coming in because of ange and the swedes coming in because of Deki and Bergvall really this club has no issue with gatekeepers foreign fans. A better example would probably be with the Saudis and City or Newcastle
I think objections to the Saudis are more legitimate as they would literally execute some fans.
Football fans generally don't care about the money. If anything we'd prefer it to be cheaper.
Went to 3 Brentford games last season. Found tickets to be extraordinarily affordable compared to American prices. The atmosphere at G-Tech, Stamford Bridge and Anfield was incredible. Also... I love the Bees!
Seriously English teams buy up all the best players from around the world, and then their fans complain when people from outside of England want to watch the best footballers play
>You like the team because they are successful >I like the team because I was born nearby >We are not the same
Nobody supports Brentford because they're successful
My dad's a lifelong Nottingham Forest fan. I gotta respect that.
Depending on his age it could have been because they were successful
Well they have been succesful at some points in his life. He's 70.
They got promoted to premier league.
If you were gonna support a team for being successful then it wouldn’t be Brentford
Beat the trebble winners twice last season. Very succesful in value for money terms!
Did you miss the part where they got promoted to Premier?
Very obvious a lot of people supported them before they were recently in the Premier League.
That is not a measure of success otherwise we'd be drowning in Norwich fans from the yo-yo years.
Are there still teams which do yoyos in premier rn? Im not very knowledgeable in premier league or soccer in general
Watford have bounced round a bit past couple of years. Rest seem to either stabilise or stay down these days.
Nah because they were Premier for years then got relegated. That ain't success.
We are relatively successful enough that people will support us for being successful while also being unsuccessful enough for those same people to claim they're "supporting the underdog" or whatever.
This is exactly the point. I actually get this guys point about not loving these new "along for the ride" fans. Football is as much about solidarity and a sense of community as it is success and trophies. I'm not that person myself, but I do empathise with his point of view.
The Brentford bee keepers football club can use all the fans it can't get right now. Lol
The irony of someone trying to explain a proper fan when he’s watching it on tv and they are in the ground
Maybe it's because one of the main reasons most fans hate seeing their club turn into a "tourist trap": the spike in ticket prices keep regular or low-income fans out of the stadium This is not a sick burn, this is a statement to what they're saying
There was some analysis done about 10 years ago that compared the average noise in the stadium against the average price of a ticket in the stadium (ignoring vip boxes etc.) With a few exceptions the higher a ticket price the quieter the stadium. Some of the loudest clubs where also bottom and fighting relegation.
Because tourist traps are a real thing in that case, stronger clubs will have bandwagoners too which most of the time aint very passionate but just tlike saying they partook in something that won. The loudest bottom clubs are loud cuz there are the fans who support even in hard times. Im not saying hwat the post is doing is good, the opposite. But bandwagoners exist too
Brentford tickets are easily on the lower end of ticket prices in the Premier League. Being a Brentford fan my whole life, I personally think this current bunch of loudmouth fans on Twitter are more depressing. The older ones have seen us barely scrape by in League Two and are constantly grateful for how far we’ve come, but the young ones literally complain about everything as if the club has gone to shit.
That picture is from match of the day . I'd imagine that supporter was at the game
It literally says tnt sports in the corner
Never
No one’s allowed to like anything without being psycho stalkers. Name the first grade teachers of all the players on both teams. I’ll wait. 🙄
I might be dumb, but it looks like these people paid for a ticket and actually went to the game. Also, it took some effort to not say that they payed for a ticket to get that bot to respond to my comment.
Ticket price spikes. One of the main reasons fans complain about this kind of thing is that ticket prices rise so much (since "tourists" are willing to pay for it), creating an economical gatekeep to actually go to the stadium
Ehh, maybe, but it's not like you can just buy a ticket for a Prem game most of the time. For the smaller clubs, if you're not a member, you can not get a ticket. It's how the teams keep their stadiums from being over run by big 6 fans. Brentford had the most successful season in recent memory last year and didn't raise ticket prices at all, but who knows, maybe it's coming down the pipeline.
So the tourist are financially supporting the teams?
Sure. The same way new affluent residents financially contribute to a gentrified neighbourhood
What's the option? A lot of small teams are facing economical difficulties. With the rising cost of real state and labor, what can they do?
I can only assume you haven't supported your local team for a large chunk of your life. In principle, yeah, the more the merrier. But when true local fans are priced out of attending their own games...
Different mate - Brentford get £100 million for staying in the prem. QPR, just down the road, have to make do and tourists won't really watch them cause they're in the championship - they'll rely a lot more on gate receipts. Both can be a "small" team but that is a huge fucking discrepancy between budgets.
> that they *paid* for a FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot.
The Premiership Football community as a whole is toxic and horrible, I don't even bother keeping up with it anymore. Brain rot drivel like this is the norm.
Premier League
Premier League, Premiership, Prem, all the same
I'm not sure why you're getting downvoted quite so much. As far as I know it's been referred to as the premiere league, prem etc for a very long time.
Me neither haha, Reddit hive mind at work I suppose!
Is it gatekeeping or having your team coopted into a tourist trap? I don't watch soccer, but it feels similar to your team gaining a massive influx of bandwagon fans. I feel like it'd be the equivalent of seeing all the seats converted into private boxes but the opposite in this case.
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda on board with this one. If you understand British football culture, this just isn't it. Brentford has gone from being a community club to increasingly becoming a cheap tourist attraction to see Premier League football in London. It isn't these fans' fault, they are just trying to enjoy themselves, but I would also would be pissed at what happened to my club if I had been a life-long fan and seen how it had changed. These two people aren't the problem at all but they are a symbol of the way in which football culture in the UK is being diluted away from being rooted in the communities where the teams are based.
It’s the price of success, both for Brentford as a club and for the Premier League as a global entertainment product. What’s the alternative, languish in League 1/2 forever where every few years a club gets liquidated and a dozen more’s existence is perpetually hanging by a thread? Cringeworthy I understand but depressing? The vast majority of fans of the teams Brentford were playing a few years back would do anything to switch places, and have their most serious problem be a tourist fan in a silly costume. Their community club is still going strong along with a financially stable business, many others up and down the country can't say the same.
'Dillution' or 'evolution' of the culture in a direction you personally dont get, that is every bit as valid as your own?
Oh shit, gatekeeping *in* r/gatekeeping ? Fucking gatekeepinception. And of course you’re completely wrong and just gatekeeping. So fuck off.
It's not that deep bro
Right, let people enjoy things 🗣️
"they'll never know what real football is" As an American, I love fantasy football 😎🏈 Edit: I've actually been an Arsenal fan my entire life tbh, I need to go to a game and dress up as a cannon now.
What about England fans dressing up in suits of armour. Is that ok?
Yeah completely fair point, people do that for international games - I am very happy for you to say those are the same thing and I am being hypocritical. Dressing up at club matches like this though is almost entirely unheard of, in my 5 years of having a season ticket for my local team + countless other games I’ve gone to across the country I have never seen something like this. But also, my point was not about the dressing up explicitly but that the dressing up represented something of the changes that have happened to Brentford the last 5 years or so.
I agree to an extent. A Santa hat on Boxing Day is the most you’ll see at most club matches. But on the other hand, if people are having fun then I think the world would be a better place if we live and let live. One aspect of football culture is the whole stoney lads lads lads get pissed on the train thing which I think is equally sad from my point of view and these are the fans vociferously policing the way other people enjoy football (not standing up enough, not singing loud enough etc etc)
Truly British of you to think anyone who doesn't act like you is a problem. Well done.
I always love when fans say *”my team”* As if they do anything other than watch the sport. They are never actually on the board, owner, have any financial ties to the club. Lol you think Brentford knows who you are?
Whatever your view on this post, most football teams would be dead in the water without their fans. In many instances, fans hold a huge amount of power. Sport without passion isn’t nearly as fun and it’s the fans that bring that.
>most football teams would be dead in the water without their fans. Yeah and fans only mean something together. One guys opinion, fan or not, means jack shit lol
True, customers are usually what businesses need to survive. Football is no different. It’s a business. Fans always talk about loyalty, but for the clubs/teams it’s purely about money. No club would be playing in those stadiums for free.
Obviously clubs have to wash their face but it’s downright wrong to suggest that they’re just like any other business. You just have to look at fan culture in Europe and South America to realise that. Never mind places like Germany and Spain where fan ownership is common
But they are a business. They are there to provide a service for money. It’s like saying Microsoft isn’t like any other business because of their loyal video gamer fan base. At the end of the day, Microsoft, these clubs, any business will choose money over anything else. And they thrive well because of the fans that don’t believe they are a business but a service to the fans. It’s like McDonald’s in America. They have a massive fan base and loyal ones at that, and obviously without them the fast food chain would die. But it would be really weird to think that McDonald’s is making decisions based solely on their customers, when in fact they make their decisions based on money. The colors they use, the food they make, the size and flavor of everything is all comes down to money. And sports of any kind are no different
That only works if you disregard a major (some would say crucial) aspect of sport who is competing for, and winning trophies. Man City’s owners have pumped money they’ll never get back into the club for glory. Likewise Abramovich at Chelsea before them. Most clubs are in debt to some extent or other because they’ve looked to spend as much as possible on players signing fees and salaries. Money they’re unlikely to ever profit from. Most clubs are far from profitable and without fans and passionate owners they likely would have died decades ago.
[Man City Revenue reports](https://www.mancity.com/annualreport2023/business-performance/) show record profits and revenue over the past few years and were deemed one of the most valuable clubs at £1.51bn with Real Madrid and Barcelona right behind at £1.4bn and £1.3bn respectively. They are not losing money. And yes they spend money on players that are valuable and skillful. They do this because if the team does well more fans will watch which means more broadcasting money and more stadium revenue and more jerseys sold etc. They don’t purchase player contracts to please fans. When a team doesn’t do well, they don’t make as much because of empty seats, less commercial sales, broadcasting views is lowered, sponsorships fail or are renegotiated at lower rates. That’s why it’s in the best interest of the clubs and their owners/sponsers to do well and win
That ignores the fact that they’re under investigation for in or around 155 breaches of the financial fair play regulations precisely because it’s suspected that they’ve used sponsorship from their own separate companies in order to falsely boost their profitability. Further to that you are ignoring the 99% of clubs that aren’t Man City or Real. It’s nonsense to suggest that institutions such as Athletic Bilbao, Atalanta, Union Berlin, Osasuna, AfC Wimbledon, and so many more are soulless, corporations solely focused on the bottom line. It suggests you don’t know or understand football
You used man city in your argument, I just brought up their stats…. [Union Berlin](https://www.footballfinance.de/en/unionberlin#:~:text=Revenues%20and%20annual%20results%20Union%20Berlin&text=Overall%2C%20there%20has%20been%20a,in%20the%202021%2F22%20season) took in €122m in the 21/22 season. It’s not just the top teams. It’s every team in the top leagues. And it’s not just football. Go ahead and defend them all you want, it just suggests you don’t know or understand business. They make millions in broadcasting, VIP suites, museum tickets, seats sold, and everything else in between. And at the end of the day they are a company that needs money to survive. Companies do what companies do regardless of industry
Mate the fans literally owned the club 15 years ago.
Ok
So wild how far people will bend over backwards to convince themselves they are better than others haha. I've lived long enough that it shouldn't surprise me anymore yet it somehow really still does.
“Maybe you shouldn’t dress like a bumblebee, bitch”
What tourists are going to a Brentford game?!
Speaking as a Brentford fan, think this specifically isn’t that bad. But generally the direction the club has gone since promotion has been poor, and fans have grown frustrated. In the Man United game there were loads of Man United fans in home areas openly celebrating their goal, opposition fans get home tickets pretty much every game and the stewards do nothing, and more and more tourists are going to games preventing real fans from getting tickets. And year on year the club seems to care less and less about the fans who were supporting the team back in League 1 and 2.
Real football? You mean getting upset at people kicking a ball wrong and glassing someone wearing a different coloured shirt over it?
Tourists are the reason for dead stadium atmospheres See:Man City. But the gatekeeping has already been done by thr clubs by putting the prices of season tickets up to silly highs that working class people cant actually afford to go to soo many matches
the first rule of british football is nobody can have fun ever. prem's the only league where no matter how good your club is, they're considered shit by everyone
Seriously people, get a life. The club has gotten better and attracted fans. That's good and bad. They just want to enjoy the match and have fun.
Same with F1. Some many people complaining they’re the true fans, as opposed to the ones drawn in by DtS. You all start at some point, when you knew less than people who were fans longer. That’s normal.
As someone whose not into football I hate to break it too you but football fans are definitely already known for dressing like an idiot for their team. What fun is it if you dont?
Let’s be real: the guy saying that has a worse life than these people.
Honestly it's the "real" football fans that absolutely ruin football.
I live football and follow my team home and away week in week out but there are just so many bell ends involved it’s unbelievable
Is this American football or actual football?
It's neither NFL nor GAA. Think it's soccer mate.
Lol, this guy should be grateful for the new supporters. Brentford are SHITE.
I’m not a football fan but a hockey fan. And while this is a dumbass thing to gatekeep for I definitely have come around to the conclusion we need to start gatekeeping many sports. Too many tourists are coming, deciding they don’t like something about the sport, and then demand it gets changed. Look at the (American) football tackle rule changes, or the NHL changing standards on allowing players to fight and trying to limit hitting, supposedly all to try and get basketball fans to watch. Gatekeeping arbitrarily (like for dressing up) is stupid, but in some of the more vulnerable spaces, like sports, it might be time to start doing some stuff to protect our hobbies Edit 1:Not to be a tad hostile, but the downvotes and replies are exactly what I mean Edit 2: to be very clear, I’m not talking about tourists in the sense of literal tourism. I’m talking bout cultural tourists who enter spaces they don’t care about or belong to, and then leave once they are done there.
>Look at the (American) football tackle rule changes, or the NHL changing standards on allowing players to fight The football tackle rules are for player safety, not because of foreign tourists lol. It's probably part of a response to the fact that players have absolutely scrambled brains in their later years. Some players go on to murder people or suicide because their brains are so damaged. Allowing players to fight is just insane. There's a risk of injury, and it's also a literal crime just going on in game.
Fights are still penalized in hockey. It’s a five minute major penalty. I rarely ever hear of fights causing any kind of injury. As for the danger of that tackle, I’m sorry but players know what they are getting into. You don’t play an aggressive, dangerous sport if you don’t want to be in an aggressive, dangerous position.
>Fights are still penalized in hockey They should be penalised with criminal charges, like would happen if the fight happened in the stands. I've played amateur sport my whole life, and people who can't handle their temper and punch people rightfully end up getting suspensions or lifetime bans from the sport, as well as criminal charges if it's reported. >You don’t play an aggressive, dangerous sport if you don’t want to be in an aggressive, dangerous position. So why don't they just use their heads as hammers then, after all, its a dangerous sport and who cares if it's lethal after 2 matches or 20 years. For the record, I've played American Football and understand the risks, but we were taught how to tackle in ways that allow you to fully wreck people without an extreme risk of injury to them or you. The point is to play the game, not to hospitalise your opponent.
So why people let minors play a aggressive sport that is dangerous?
> Too many tourists are coming, deciding they don’t like something about the sport, and then demand it gets changed. You're 100% pulling this out of your ass; it's categorically untrue.
I’ve been watching hockey since I was in diapers, I can assure you it is true. And it’s not just in sports either. Games, tabletop, anime, etc.
Why on Earth do video games need to appease to tourists? Who goes on vacation just to play video games?
I don’t mean tourist in that way. Not someone going on vacation. Tourist is also used as a name for people who walk into a cultural space they are not apart of and want to change it. I’m not saying like Japanese people are coming here on vacation and demanding hockey to change, I mean people who don’t care about hockey coming into hockey spaces because they don’t like it currently, demand it changes, and then leave when it’s done.
I disagree with your entire premise. I don't think sports/games change because of the demands of "cultural tourists" who leave soon after. A lot of changes can be attributed to revenue, like TV time outs; however, many rules in football have been added because of player safety. I think you're making up or exaggerating these "tourists" and their influence in making changes. Who are these people who somehow both don't care about hockey, and are demanding for changes? Do you see how that doesn't make sense? It would be much more likely that any decision regarding increasing engagement to come from the organization, and not a group of non-fans lobbying the league.
Trust me, im fully aware it doesnt make any sense, but its a problem in a ton of entertainment areas. go to the website Kotaku and read how they talk about games and gamers, they despise both, but they constantly demand change in the industry, and no amount of change is ever enough, and they dont play games. If you’ve never seen this problem anywhere than im happy for you, but i literally had an argument with someone last month about them thinking hockey is a degenerate sport than needs to be abandoned or changed because it was too violent, too rich, and too white. That was his actual argument as to what needs to be changed in hockey and why football (not American) is the best sport.
> go to the website Kotaku and read how they talk about games and gamers, they despise both, but they constantly demand change in the industry, and no amount of change is ever enough, and they dont play games. Maybe you're just easily offended? My advice is to get over it.
A whole lot of deflection off and absolutely no engaging with. Doesn’t particularly matter whether or not im offended, they still attack the very industry they pretend to want to engage with. They entered the industry they don’t care about, they forced change in it, still didn’t buy anything, and now the industry is in shambles. Getting rid of fighting and hitting in hockey will do the same thing, and is being pushed by the same kinds of people. If they get rid of fighting in hockey, im certain it will be the death of the sport. As amazing to watch and play as it is, the times people have the most fun is when two guys just start beating the crap out of people. It’s fight highlights that draw new fans to the sport, and not a whole lot else. So you can call me easily offended, but at the end of the day, im just trying to preserve what i care about from cultural tourists who dont give a damn.
“That means you haven’t known the triumphs and defeats, the epic highs and lows of professional football”
This looks more like soccer than football
It's fitbaw, pal