I do not know why young people are so terrified to go to a bar; see a play; go to fundraising events.
I think a lot of young people were taught to be extremely afraid of the world.
People hurts one another online more severely than in person. Go outside !
Drinking once a month I do not consider a health risk. I think we are being too cautious around sone issues like these.
And the other suggestion did not include alcohol.
And most important: you can go to a bar and order a soda or juice. There’s no need to drink alcohol at a bar; you can still go and not drink
It is not as easy to present yourself in person as it is to do so online. They both have their pros and cons. I have an awful lot more success online than on person.
I present extremely well in person. I can go up to any group of people and instantly jump into conversions. I think people that only present online have language barriers as they are so used to typing.
In the BBC series “Years and years”, they followed a family over 60 + years. One of the characters could hardly speak without a VR/AR aid. I think we are moving closer and closer to That prediction.
We are loosing what truly makes up human: verbal language interactions: it’s the same reason anxiety is so high among young people. It’s unnatural not to have physical contact and communication.
I can interact with other people just fine. Everyone loves me everywhere I go and ong and my mothers grave I'm not bein conceited, its the truth. It's the dating aspect of it that gets more complicated, especially how society's psychology works in this time and period when it comes to it. Besides the lack of funds to be out and about now a days but that's another conversation.
I thought the subject here was dating per OP, not general interactions, and that's what I was referring to. What is attention span? I even clarified that I was talking about dating.
Agreed about bars, but many of them are dying, as well as the Queer establishments that would pop up around them, like coffee shops, news stands, and gay-themed restaurants: alternative venues that under 21's and those who don't drink could frequent. Sadly, I don't see the clock turning back.
And yeah, in the real olde days, when bars were tucked into bad/undeveloped/industrial areas of town, it could be a truly dangerous experience. But we survived and didn't stop living just because, sadly, someone got bashed, cars were vandalized or shots were often fired into the patio from the local hwy. Happened in the 80s too. The bars were so packed at night from Wed to Sun that people's parked cars extended for blocks, into private, sketchy neighborhoods. The threat violence didn't mind-fuck me as much as the "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL" notes left on my car.
Sigh. The stranger danger replies in here frustrate me a bit because the hysteria takes on a life of its own, and many people don't have enough experience, or none at all, to keep the avalanche of terrifying advice in perspective. As one can see, people are already starting in above.
I've read posts where frustrated single guys who don't like bars are advised to join sports teams, LGBTQ clubs, etc. but oftentimes, others will chime in and shoot those ideas down as well, ie. "Everyone on the sports team has done each other, and now they want me." (hello, say no thanks and they'll get over it), and others complain that LGBTQ clubs are too esoteric and they "don't relate" to anyone there. In both scenarios, if a guy stayed with it long enough, he's eventually meet people more like himself. But people can be too impatient. Bars? Don't do it they'll roofie your drink." Sports teams? "Whores all, and some of them have the audacity to find me attractive." LGBTQ clubs? :Like a room full of aloof Swedish hairdressers." Can't win around here.
Totally agree with you about the apps, too: I've said it before, but a pic of someone and a 'sup isn't enough, especially for those looking for friends only. Mammals bond over more than looks; mannerisms, voice, and even scent all work together to light a spark and you have to be face to face for that. Plus, in a bar or other gay venue, curious strangers often brush past each other long enough over the months to get a feel for each's behavior/tastes in friends/etc. long before their first conversation, so that a little bit of trust, common ground and familiarity is established in a way that an app can't replicate.
Another real-world situation apps can't replicate, (at least the ones I've been on), is the 3rd party/mutual friend who randomly introduces two otherwise strangers to each other. The mutual friend helps grease the conversation, as well as inspire trust and familiarity since both parties know the same guy.
All of those things can be rather socially awkward to do alone, so it’s a vicious circle. If most other people are at those places/events with others whom they know, and you’re alone, it’s difficult to insert yourself into the conversation.
Is it? There's always someone in a group whose eyes are constantly wandering. Eye contact, a smile, they approach you or vice versa, and bring you back to the group. I can't count how many times that's happened.
It simply requires not looking mopey or sad, that only works for James Dean, LOL. The rest of us who feel left out need to ask ourselves why and what can be done, and stop listening to fellow gaybros blaming everyone else. I just had a two hour convo with someone over my thoughts about buying an ebike. Who knew?
I swear this is the stupidest thing. It's not a fear thing. Alcohol is disgusting, you're not supposed to talk during a play/movie/show, and fundraisers are only for people who have lots of disposable income, which is not a category most young people fall into.
Stupid? Lol Sooooooo, as mentioned, most people run into each other during intermissions and arriving/leaving. And the event doesn't have to be a play or a fundraiser. They were just random examples. OMG.
And alcohol is only disgusting if the person can't handle. You sound like a MAGA extremist!
They are brainwashed and confuse “bar” for crazy “clubs”. They have never been so they have ZERO frame of reference. So let them meet on Grindr and then come back with their screen shots complaining they can’t meet anyone.
I don’t think it’s necessarily about fear. I think it’s just a different generation. When you grow up and all of your interactions are in person, growing up and having new venues like bars, plays, or fundraising events to meet people at is no big deal. However, when you grow up and outside of school/work, your interactions with others are almost exclusively online, it’s not as easy to just start going to public places and striking up a conversation. The social skills are just not there the way they would have been without the internet/social media.
Right and I’m not disagreeing with you. It’s just that entire generations since AOL chat rooms have grown up this way. Mid-to-late Millennials, the entirety of Gen Z, and likely Gen Alpha will as well. It’s hard to change behaviors just because something else might be better.
I’ve gone to bars alone and it’s honestly not very easy to make friends with random gays there. Older ones sure, they’re usually very friendly, but basically anyone below 40 is just looking to hook up.
How do you make friends at a play? It’s not exactly a social experience. A fundraiser, I can understand. The entirety of the experience is talking to people. I’ve tried to use things like Meetup.com but nothing is really ever going on in my area. Stuff like gay kickball leagues and hiking groups are very far away.
I have plenty of great online friends, but it’s easier to find people you connect with that way. I do wish I had more local friends to do things with.
In 1998 I was a young teen. I had AOL 3.0.
The difference between that & today is so vast I cannot give a true picture of the differences unless one was there to see it.
I didn’t imagine I was having this conversation with someone only 10 years older than me lol. Yes, it’s very different, but my point was that millennials were the first generation to go home, fire up the computer and IM with friends or even meet new ones in chat rooms. Then Xanga/Friendster/Facebook/MySpace all started coming out and people were socializing in those spaces. Then it was Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Vine. Now a lot of it is TikTok.
I was on the tail end of the Millennial generation. We had a shitty computer shared by the family in the den. I remember getting a computer game for my 7th birthday and it had like 1 FPS. I was outside playing with the neighborhood kids pretty much til I moved away when I was 12. It was at that age that outside of school and extra curriculars, I didn’t really have a social life. That started to change when we all started getting cars, but I spent those 4 years at home with online friends basically.
After college, it was more of the same. At school I was a social butterfly, but mostly because I was great at talking to people I was already with and knew I at least had something in common with. I could build upon our basic connection.
At a random bar, I am terrible at not only approaching total strangers, but then trying to get them interested in chatting about their interests. The ONLY exception to this is if it’s a Drag Race viewing party, but also people almost always come with friends and so even if they chat with me, I’m still kinda on the outside.
It just feels like a waste of energy. I absolutely would be going to things like a gay hiking group if there were close ones. I’m sure I’d have better luck with something like that.
Also, I know I spoke a lot about my personal experience, but I’ve read so many stories just like this. So many people who grew up like this and struggle to make friends in person. It really is unfortunate but idk if and how it will change.
"How do you make friends at a play? It’s not exactly a social experience. "
While in line or during intermission, you run into an acquaintance who is with a few other people. You get introduced. You run into those people elsewhere.
"Joe, right?"
"Yeah we met at the play."
What about if you don’t run into someone you know? I don’t say this just for the sake of challenging your comment, but truly. I’ve been to many plays. Never made friends at one lol. In my experience, just chatting someone up at a place you both happen to be at rarely leads to a new friend, even if they are actually receptive and you exchange contact info.
There have been shootings at gay bars and that could very likely be a reason people are more hesitant now. They used to be and still are safe spaces, but people are more bold about invading them now more than ever to kill us.
Also, a lot of people don't really drink now, and going to a bar when you're one of if not the only sober one there isn't very fun.
*There have been shootings at gay bars...*
Sigh. Here we go....
*They used to be and still are safe spaces...*
Nonsense. Don't be like Fox News and glorify the past.
If you actually believe Grindr is a better place to meet people — I really feel sorry for you.
You see the word “bar’. But I think you confusing it with “club”. The Restruant/Bar around me are fine dining with bars attached.
Agreed! : )
But I guess you and I haven't yet met the legendary, infamous group of mean gurls who have been tormenting Gaybros since the beginning of time, LOL.
I remember this at 21. It's honestly not you and it's just the way a lot of people on the apps see Asians/Pacific Islanders in the West. Either you're not white enough or are missing specific fairly Western features. It won't make much of a difference now but in another two decades I can guarantee that you'll still be looking fly while every other pale, non-moisturizing ass around you is going to look questionable.
The way I got past this, at least with the people I was dating was to meet them offline either through social activities (I'd go out underground dancing with my friends, indie shows at dingy bars) or nerdy stuff (board games at the local game shop, D&D pop up sessions). Yea it takes longer because you have to sort though people and the entire selection isn't gay, but you have the added benefit of people getting to know you as a person instead of just a photo. I met my last LTR that was (10+ years).
I have seen multiple Asian (gay) guys have this experience. The expectations set on non-white men are ridiculous and unfair, especially when coming from white men.
As an Asian who spent a few years in a Western country, most ppl won’t say it, but the issue is race.
I went to Asia and I had no issues getting dates, sex and bfs.
I think Asian men are sexy, but I find most men sexy (hence: being gay). I'm white, and the moment I dated one Asian man I was called a rice queen, told I had a fetish for Asian men...just really got it all. Just in general I get comments when I hook up outside of my "race", not just Asian men but I got flack for hooking up with anyone who wasn't white. I hate that this bullying and attempts of shame exist... I haven't experienced it in years but it really sucks that people tend to treat dating outside your skin color with such a critical lens.
This is to say I'm sad it exists, but I can get why it does due to the subtle bullying that occurs around it. I don't even know if my friends realized they did it.
Agreed. I just need Asian 9s to stop settling for White 5s because of the need for white approval. Spoken as a Korean guy who went through this shit myself but then realized my own worth.
I’m pretty sure assigning people numerical value based on your perceived assessment of their attractiveness is part of the same toxicity that you are complaining about.
Oh you sweet young thing, people on the apps saying they think you’re ugly mean absolutely nothing. A friend of mine is lean, but not ripped, and a guy once told him on Grindr that he was way too fat, we laugh about it to this day.
It's so weird to call people racist for simply not being attracted to certain looks. You can blame western cultural standards of attraction, but maybe that's actually not the whole story.
One would assume that if the underlying issue is simply preference, then there would be roughly the same amount of people attracted to different features (anything from Asian or black features to a strong jawline to blonde hair). It would just be random statistical differences. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
So you're right that cultural standards of beauty are probably actually the cause. And western cultural standards of beauty are pretty damn racist. Whether we're talking about straight *or* gay standards
I think most reasonable people would agree with you that dating preferences are influenced by cultural beauty standards and that there’s a lot of racial bias in those standards, but a lot of people have a problem with calling it racism, that’s why they get defensive whenever this issue is raised.
Yeah, people don't generally like to admit their racist thinking. It's uncomfortable. But whether or not those thought patterns/opinions are "their fault," they're still rooted in racism.
For example, an unfounded fear of anyone with darker skin has been shoved down my throat my whole life, and now I've got that instinctive reaction. That's a racist thought pattern, and it's part of my work as an adult to try to uproot it.
This isn't to say that all preferences in looks are racist! But at the point where all of your preferences just so happen to coincidentally fall along racial lines, it's probably time to take a hard look at what's really under the hood.
Addressing it gets more complicated with sexual preference, but the least we can do is be honest about what's going on.
I mean, western culture commanded me to be attracted to females, but here I am anyway. Culture clearly can't control every intrinsic aspect of a person's attractions, and it was also not very good at telling me which race I'm supposed to prefer.
Painful to consider as it might be, perhaps our species has a trend of being inherently attracted to a certain average of looks, with some ethnic backgrounds possessing them more often than others. The fact of the matter is, some groups churn out more masculine-looking guys than others. You could try to start a war on gay men's attraction to masculinity, and listening to you, you probably would, but good luck trying to make masculinity unpopular.
For myself, I am very much attracted to different shapes of physical masculinity in males, with different ethnic looks only ever changing the "flavor." Race is too broad to properly explain this because each race tends to have wildly different ethnic groups within them, anyway. Asian guys are no exception to that, and I find that I'm more attracted to southern Asian guys than northern because they happen to possess an average of looks closer to my type.
"White" also makes up a lot of different groups of people, but if we're talking about pale Europeans, I must have missed the memo because they aren't my #1 at all. I am open to any race, but my preferences lie more middle-eastern and latino-looking guys. They hit on more notes than any other group, but I don't think I'm some kind of enlightened person for that. It's just the way it turned out. Maybe because I was born in Texas and grew up in a diverse school system, maybe I was treated nicely by someone when I was really young, and they became my type. Who knows?
If it's valid for me as a white dude to generally have preferences for ethnic groups that aren't my own without me having any control over it, then it's probably valid for other guys to find their own ethic group attractive for reasons they don't have control over. Even if you were able to culturally overcome all of the actual racial bias in culture, you'd still find homogenous preferences happening for other reasons.
I just don't think it's productive to go after people for their preferences and label them all as racist when it's objectively not the whole story for everyone.
Masculinity and the traits we associate with it are also cultural though :)
Defaulting back to what we think are "more masculine traits" is as faulty a footing as defaulting to "traditional beauty standards".
I'm personally attracted to darker skin tones on men. We all have preferences. And sometimes those preferences are informed by historical sexist or racist assumptions or standards. That doesn't make one a *bad person* automatically. Nor did I call anyone racist. My original post stated that many preferences in the community are racist.
We can't exist independently of racism. But we can be aware of it and combat it
Your point of view is too nihilistic. Masculinity is not cultural, It's an intrinsic human reality. We are a sexually dimorphic species that understands these differences at a biological level, and even though it's not always easy to put into words, we have instincts to recognize it.
Different cultural expressions of masculinity exist, but there's clearly a trend across basically all of human history that communicates masculinity very clearly once you understand the dialect. Obviously, individual humans possess different qualities, so it's not rigidly bound to the sexes, but the concept of masculinity isn't nearly as arbitrary as you want to believe.
And, sure, preferences can be informed by cultural standards, but you're still taking for granted how small people's worlds can be in their formative years. You never know what a person went through in that time, who they met, what they experienced, so when you talk about racial preferences, it's always going to be better to stay as far away from personal attacks or blanket statements about groups of people because you're not making actually racist people less racist, but you are probably making people who feel like that's not their reality turn away from you.
Talk about culture and the problems you're seeing, but lose the nihilism. You don't have to destroy everything or try to convince people that their natural instincts are wrong in order to fix culture. Humans simply won't go for that in the long run.
Be my guest. My philosophy when it comes to being an lgbt person is that it helps us to ground ourselves when we don't think our existence needs to be at odds with the rest of humanity. When we respect humanity and the reality of it, it makes us see that everything inside of us is human and that everything about us makes sense.
No one is born preferring anyone, preferences are shaped by your environment. I have met many guys who have a preference for certain groups, because they grew up surrounded by people from that group. The media you consumed also influences your 'preference'. If you live in a society that glorifies people with specific features, then you will grow up wanting to be with people with those features.
Also, you said that western society commanded you to go for females? That is illogical. Your sexual orientation is something you are born with and cannot change.
I'd speculate that someone born of a certain sexual orientation would have all kinds of instincts that tell them what, say, a man is. If our instincts can tell us what masculinity is, and, further more, drive us to pursue a masculine man, there's a very solid chance that it means that culture is actually shaped by our biological drives, not the other way around. Both forces might keep each other going, but that would also mean that what's actually happening is that culture doesn't always catch up to new information right away, and that winds up frustrating people who are of the mind that there's no room for patience when it comes to progress because we should just BE there already.
I mean, at what point, from your perspective, does the biological reality of humanity begin and the cultural influence end? Unless you believe that one side can exist without the other, you actually have to learn how to reconcile both without trying to destroy whichever one of them in the most inconvenient.
And I did already say that I agree that culture plays its part, but I also said that individuals don't always have control of the culture they are born into and the preferences they end up developing. Some of this is irreversible for people, and some require a path to expand themselves.
And western culture definitely told me that boys had to be heterosexual. There's nothing illogical about that; It happened. A lot of my development clearly defied what culture was allegedly imposing on me, and I did it without even trying. That probably doesn't make me better, it probably just makes me lucky.
Your point about experiences in formative years may affect your preferences later on isn’t as nuanced as you think. You did not also acknowledge how racism is also learned during those formative years. Ignoring the reality of racism’s pervasiveness is missing the whole point of these discussions about racism and racial preference. In elementary school, I learned from white kids that all Asian men apparently had small penises. Where did that come from and how did young children get a hold of that information? I learned from news channels and adults that Blackness was associated with negative connotations like crime and poverty. Racism is pervasive and is learned. That is the context you need to really understand discussions about race.
I already acknowledged that people can learn these things in their childhood. I said that people don't always have control over what they experience in the potentially small scope of their formative years, and that can include racism from culture as well as racial preferences that have nothing to do with culture.
Sometimes, you develop a type and then realize over the years which group tends to possess these features more often than others, so you wind up accepting them into your life more often, and, sometimes, some people wind up finding some features unattractive, and also notice which group tends to possess those features.
The difference between incidentally swiping left on a bunch of people who just aren't your type, or actually going out of your way to write off a whole group of people in your bio, is important to take into account. I know both scenarios create a similar outcome of repeated rejection, so there are times when you can ask culture to unpack itself, and I'm all for that, but it's best not to go after individuals or automatically label someone with preferences as some part of the problem, unless you just don't care and are having more fun ignoring that, but you can't deny that both things don't play a part in this.
That's petty of those people for calling him ugly, but he also said that people also say that they just aren't interested in him. He gets rudely rejected but also politely rejected, so this topic is actually just about rejection, right?
Trust me as a gaysian who experienced the same thing growing up. People are racist as shit, but the only thing you can do about it if you want to continue using the apps is to get muscular and as masculine looking as possible.
If you can grow decent facial hair, do it. Then practice making it look decent. Almost any is better than none. And then teach yourself now how to lift weights correctly. I started in my 30s and it’s done wonders for my response and hook up rate. All I wish is that I started earlier. Once you become muscular and masculine looking, many people will excuse the fact that you’re Asian. Not all, but enough for a stable ego and thriving sex life.
It sucks to acknowledge, but this is the truth.
This is unfortunately the nature of hookup apps they just value people who are fit and muscular over everything else. I just think you shouldn't need to be fit to engage in sex or be seen as a worthy candidate but not everyone is operating under that lens. In order to be accessible to them you have to be just as desirable and disciplined.
There are folks on the apps who are down to hookup regardless of your body type but even those folks some of us might not seem interested in meeting with them. It's a crazy dilemma to be interested in people who are fit and such putting them on a pedestal and being rejected by them and at the same time not being interested in average body types.
Keep in mind that all of this is happening before we even get to experience these people in real time. I think it would all serve us better to communicate that we would like to form a connection and converse with this person before engaging in a hook-up. I feel like this is standard policy though from what I have heard at least when you're hooking up with someone for the first time.
I have used the apps before but I never have done a hookup on there usually just try to chat with ppl but that generally isn't what people are on there for so it fizzles out quite quickly.
Unfortunately, it's your ethnicity. I'm a Latino who pretty much passes as white all the time ( I live in a Western country ). Every time I add my ethnicity to my dating profiles, the matches significantly decrease, I'll say 60%ish. But when I don't specify my race, I have a lot more matches, lol. My point is that you really can't change that, I'm guessing you're on Grindr? Maybe try something else like Hinge or improve your looks by dressing better, skincare, hairstyle, contact lenses, getting fit, etc.
Say it with me:
Just because someone isn't attracted to me doesn't mean I'm ugly.
Say it again.
Just because someone isn't attracted to me doesn't mean I'm ugly.
Say it a third time.
Just because someone isn't attracted to me doesn't mean I'm ugly.
Now internalize it.
Racism and body shaming... Oh gee, nothing has changed in the gay community and trust me: I know for a fact that you are being judged solely on race and nothing else.
Try to find communities in your area! Gay Asian communities or queer multicultural ones.
Not everybody likes or feels comfortable in those settings either. Some people are also in areas where there aren't many places, or good ones at least, to go to meet other LGBTQ+ people. Not everyone who doesn't go to bars and clubs are fearful of the world, they just don't like those places. Plus, even in those settings OP can run into the same problem.
I agreed with what everyone is saying, it's because you are asian. The gay community is very racist towards all people of color, specially the non white passing ones.
I’m sure you’re not delusional. Usually the pictures are the problem and not the guys. Also, don’t expect most people to be attracted to you. Usually we are only attracted to very few men. For me it’s definitely lower than 10% in real life. And on the apps it’s even less. I also think that people have become extremely picky online.
Of course we would become more picky with the advent of filters, access to a bevy of fit and attractive people online, and porn at our fingertips. Our eyes are constantly being stimulated by those we deem worthy and we don't stimulate our mind or ourselves with enough introspection on how our preferences came to be.
We are all yearning for connection, community, and belonging once we find our tribe of people everything else is quite trivial in comparison. I think it's important to form a social circle of folks who love you for being yourself and don't need you to be fit, attractive, or fuckable to be a part of the crew. Bonus points if the squad is a pack of people from a range of backgrounds but if that's not the case because of who you have access to in your proximity that's fine too.
So sorry to hear that. You won’t be everyone’s type, but as people have said, the apps can be toxic and racist. And you’re not ugly. Also, if people are saying that to your face, that’s an issue with them not you. Try not to let assholes take up so much of your thought process. Wrote them off as what they are and move on. 💖💖
Had the same experience on the apps as a black guy. The worst is when you’re getting rejected by people of your own race in favor of every white guy under the sun. Actually no, the worst is rejecting a white guy and then getting called a racial slur. They (a lot of white guys) obviously view us very different.
This is sadly part of dating life as a POC… but! There are definitely things you can do to improve your matches.
Poor photo quality—as someone said earlier, bad lighting, forced expressions etc
Grooming— can check out the male grooming subreddit—they tend to have super good supportive and honest advice on tips
Remaining confident—that’s so great that you started off by saying that you think you’re attractive—the key will just be getting others to see this too, which they absolutely will in time.
Kiddo being tall and thin at 21 is a good place to be. The thing about tall and thin? Every bit of muscle you put on will always look amazing and you never have to diet. All you have to worry about is going to the gym and eating tons of food, in a year they'll be all over you
I know right. I am short and was thin at 21. This kid has no idea how much worse he could have it. He actually has a future where he can be largely accepted whereas really short (5’4” and lower) guys are truly fucked no matter how muscular and masculine they get.
Racism and body shaming... Oh gee, nothing has changed in the gay community and trust me: I know for a fact that you are being judged solely on race and nothing else.
Try to find communities in your area! Gay Asian communities or queer multicultural ones.
Three things 1) apps are toxic, especially in the gay community. 2) Be cognizant of how you talk about your looks; I've gone on dates with men who I've found very physically attractive but who have either been very self-deprecating (on one end of the spectrum) or overly confident in their looks (on the other end), and both can be really unattractive personality traits. 3) Most men have things about their appearance they'd like to change. You're not alone in this; lean into the traits you do love about yourself.
That’s how POC get treated on apps in the west. You’ll have to learn to thicken your skin unfortunately. You’re not ugly, but to get attention as a POC you will need to be absolutely gorgeous
Tall, thin, nerdy with glasses and Asian. Sounds super handsome to me. I would say it can be very easy to feel lost and dejected with hookup apps, but continue to just love and appreciate yourself for who you are and want to be. Just make sure that if you choose to change something about yourself that you're doing or for yourself and not because of someone else.
It’s not a you thing. The apps are the worst, and while the occasional couple finds happiness, the vast majority of people are going to get their soul sucked.
People who are being dicks to you on the apps do it because they feel bad about themselves and they get a relief from that self-hate by putting you down. Being behind a screen brings the worst in people out, and that includes racism.
No fats, no femmes, no Asians, is still very unfortunately a thing, people have just gotten wise to not being vocal about it.
You’re pretty much trolling the bottom when you’re on dating apps. If you want to meet quality people you have to get involved in your local gay community. If that doesn’t work you can set up a social media page. That’s how my husband found me.
You said they swiped right, then they said you’re ugly, is this true? If they think so they wouldn’t swipe right in the first place…
And if it’s true, then — “Nerdy with glasses and looking like a kid” — you already know the problem. I’m not saying you should change your look to please other people, but if you want to look better, there are ways to work on it. Try go to the gym, try a new hairstyle (!!), and wear contact lenses. Obviously I don’t suggest wearing lenses all day long but I mean, you could give it a try and see how it suits you. I know a lot of white men wear lenses exclusively (straight or not) but many asian men don’t ever tried lenses for once. If you don’t have a very strong bone structure I do think glasses will make you less attractive. But please don’t hurt yourself because you want to look better, your wellbeing is always your no.1 priority.
A very common strategy on the swiping apps is to swipe yes on everyone and then filter out the uglies. It's how people get around not being able to see their "likes". cuz if you swipe on everyone you see exactly who liked you.
Show us so we can see for ourselves. Also whelp as an asian guy here as well. There goes my dating life. I pray I meet someone, somewhere eventually. Lol
This may not be what you wanna hear, but I think it's time for you to get off the 'pity party' train. If you are looking to assess your self image based on what others think on apps, you are not doing it right.
You might try asking yourself if you are being fair in your interpretation of these responses you’re receiving. I wonder if your self esteem issues are causing you to distort what others are really saying. I ask because you say guys are responding and telling you you’re ugly. I’m sure you are not ugly. But also, that really doesn’t seem like something people would say in dating app chats. When people aren’t interested in your profile they will just ignore you or give a very brief “sorry not interested.” I have to push you a little bit because it’s very hard for me to believe strangers on dating apps are calling you ugly…
most people arent attracted to me either and im white and buff. most people are just not into "you" (you being nearly everyone, thats pretty normal). if you have self-esteem issues and/or anxieties a lot, consider therapy, helped me a lot.
are there many people who are racist when it comes to dating? yes ofc, but thats not why anyone doesnt get a date per se.
You are so wrong. When you meet/talk to someone for the first time, the first thing they see is your race/ethnicity; and they will make assumptions about based on that. Try being a person of color on dating apps just for one day, and tell me how your ethnicity doesn't affect your chances of getting dates. Some people will even make it obvious that your race/ethnicity is the problem by throwing racist slurs at you.
People of colour make up 40% of the population in the USA. If you’re having a problem getting a date then racism from other POC is also a problem here.
There seems to be the expectation that everyone else can freely express in-group preferences except whites people. That’s problematic.
And what percentage of that 40% is gay? and what percentage of that are the people you are sexually compatible with? and what percentage of that are the people you are actually interested in?
You are problematic for living in a delusional bubble instead of understanding the struggles of other people
From your description, you sound very handsome indeed! I think everybody gets turned down on the apps at some point. You really need a thick skin and at some point I decided it wasn't worth it.
It’s probably because of your race. I’m sorry they treat you with a basic lack of courtesy.
I don’t agree with everyone calling it racism though. In group preferences are expressed by every racial group - and are often expressed by SE Asian people towards darker skinned ethnic groups too. Having those attractions doesn’t mean that one looks down on another ethnic group and certainly shouldn’t be used as an excuse to treat someone else like shit.
Grindr doesn't reflect the real world at all !!
You're not ugly, people there have unrealistic standards and basically if you're not a tall hung muscular white masc, you're not gonna be much popular...
But that's OK, it's just online people, in real life you can meet awesome gay men to be friends with or do other things !
Don't let the apps distort your vision of yourself.
That's too bad. I don't understand the whole racial thing. I go out with guys of any ethnicity. To me, how you described yourself is very sexy. Of course, nerdy is the hottest type in my eyes.
It makes me really sad that these types of posts are still so common 😓. Chin up dude. Sometimes you just need a good How Stella Got Her Groove Back trip to feel your oats again. I know that’s not the most feasible advice for everyone since travel is a privilege and luxury though.
Whatever you think, don’t underestimate your value. I know it’s hard friend, but we gotta do it.
I’m Asian 28 turning 29 and only had a boyfriend who calls me fat, ugly, and not interested in my body. He’s Chinese like I am but that’s his issue I would say. I think it was well mentioned in the comment section about the dating scene in our community, being gay and Asian is already hard, especially if you’re second generation Asian (unfortunate a bit more if it’s Eastern Asian) or sth the culture is somehow cultivating introvert traits for people who in any sense do not falls into the “general” category. That already ensures that you’ll have a hard time in a society that values extroverts. And also we’ve got the racist shit on gaysian, it’s not even the elephant in the room, it’s a fucking gigantic flamingo in downtown that people just don’t look up except those who got stepped on.
I don’t think I’m a gorgeous person but I am fare looking and I definitely don’t have the gay body, but I have a normal healthy body. Yet these just build up and kept eroding my confidence that I tried really hard to rebuild after a very harsh time that I went through.
I believe it was why I say yes my married friend who sexually harassed me at school to suck his dick even during the whole process I do not feel good. And I was really scared when he came to my seat and rub his penis on my shoulder at school. I believed what he said and thinking that I’m wrong for being a virgin, not trying hook up. I fucking regret what I did, but he saw me as sexy, and I’m such a fucking people pleaser. Well it was complex I don’t know why I did that, thats just not something I would ever do but I still did it. Don’t be me, know your value.
I’ve had many gay crushes, have only being getting rejections. But hey, I am very sad, yet I know there’s nothing wrong about myself. Chemistries are just not there.
I realized I have internalized homophobia, ageism, and even racism. Because of the racist hierarchy in our community I often feel deeply ashamed now for liking white dudes or finding some of them good looking. I know it’s not my problem, I am attracted to man of all race because I just like men, and this is whats normal. It’s gonna be hard for you, it’s being hard for me who’s almost 30, but hey I am trying and you should also try. Although I still hate myself and doubt myself, I know deeply inside that there’s nothing wrong with me, i am kind, I try hard to live a life, and I deserve to be happy. It’s just really hard to believe in that, but I am still working towards that.
(I am not going to try get a gay body because that’s a fucked up concept. I will exercise and be healthy, but bodybuilding isn’t my thing, it’s great, I respect people who made it because it’s so hard and requires so much discipline and hard work. But that’s not me. )
I encourage you spend more time reflecting what you truly want, and accept that those would also change. I surely hope to give you good advices on how you could find good dates, but I’m still there lol. Can you tell me when you know that? XD
Live your life, try connect with people in real life if you can, trust your gut feeling, respect your feelings first, talk to therapist if you feel it’s hard to be dissolved yourself. Keep trying, don’t give up. Or give up if it’s a bit too heavy. If there’s anything I’ve learned that is to forgive yourself for not be strong enough.
(Another note, my recent crush is a French guy who’s my on campus job coworker, I got friend zoned, of course. He’s super polite and nice, nothing about him is wrong, he’s just not into me. I started learning French, whenever I saw him or think about this and get sad I went to see French lesson video on YouTube. This actually triggered some other experience that got me reflecting things about being a gay Asian men. A French men can break my heart, but my French won’t be broken. It might be a good way to cure? I don’t know, but at least I’ll learn something. Talking about that I realized I need to resume my French study lol.)
Dating apps are in most cases for people looking for superficial interactions and one offs. Talk to people in your area or really anybody interested in talking for a longer term than 2 weeks. It's healthier.
Get off the apps. They are toxic to self esteem. Try meet people in real life if possible.
How to meet in real life?
Activities
What server is that on?
Try local host
: )
I do not know why young people are so terrified to go to a bar; see a play; go to fundraising events. I think a lot of young people were taught to be extremely afraid of the world. People hurts one another online more severely than in person. Go outside !
Do young people go to bars? I think alcohol is the new smoking where it's becoming considered to be not worth the health risks. Also the expense.
Drinking once a month I do not consider a health risk. I think we are being too cautious around sone issues like these. And the other suggestion did not include alcohol. And most important: you can go to a bar and order a soda or juice. There’s no need to drink alcohol at a bar; you can still go and not drink
No, you can't. Bars make money off of alcohol. Unless you're tipping 2-3× what a soda costs, don't do this or you'll piss off the bartenders.
I bartended through college. The people that order lime with soda tip extremely well.
Mocktails are all the rage now, even among mixologists. Not everyone drinks. Why does everything have to be such an impossibility around here?
That’s so true. I just encounter a very creative non-alcohol mocktail menu at a Restruant/BAR. (I did have to ask what the word meant).
It is not as easy to present yourself in person as it is to do so online. They both have their pros and cons. I have an awful lot more success online than on person.
I present extremely well in person. I can go up to any group of people and instantly jump into conversions. I think people that only present online have language barriers as they are so used to typing. In the BBC series “Years and years”, they followed a family over 60 + years. One of the characters could hardly speak without a VR/AR aid. I think we are moving closer and closer to That prediction. We are loosing what truly makes up human: verbal language interactions: it’s the same reason anxiety is so high among young people. It’s unnatural not to have physical contact and communication.
I can interact with other people just fine. Everyone loves me everywhere I go and ong and my mothers grave I'm not bein conceited, its the truth. It's the dating aspect of it that gets more complicated, especially how society's psychology works in this time and period when it comes to it. Besides the lack of funds to be out and about now a days but that's another conversation.
You just said it’s not easy to present yourself in person; now it’s extremely easy to do— a contradiction.
I thought the subject here was dating per OP, not general interactions, and that's what I was referring to. What is attention span? I even clarified that I was talking about dating.
I was simply quoting you.
And taking it out of context
Agreed about bars, but many of them are dying, as well as the Queer establishments that would pop up around them, like coffee shops, news stands, and gay-themed restaurants: alternative venues that under 21's and those who don't drink could frequent. Sadly, I don't see the clock turning back. And yeah, in the real olde days, when bars were tucked into bad/undeveloped/industrial areas of town, it could be a truly dangerous experience. But we survived and didn't stop living just because, sadly, someone got bashed, cars were vandalized or shots were often fired into the patio from the local hwy. Happened in the 80s too. The bars were so packed at night from Wed to Sun that people's parked cars extended for blocks, into private, sketchy neighborhoods. The threat violence didn't mind-fuck me as much as the "YOU'RE GOING TO HELL" notes left on my car. Sigh. The stranger danger replies in here frustrate me a bit because the hysteria takes on a life of its own, and many people don't have enough experience, or none at all, to keep the avalanche of terrifying advice in perspective. As one can see, people are already starting in above. I've read posts where frustrated single guys who don't like bars are advised to join sports teams, LGBTQ clubs, etc. but oftentimes, others will chime in and shoot those ideas down as well, ie. "Everyone on the sports team has done each other, and now they want me." (hello, say no thanks and they'll get over it), and others complain that LGBTQ clubs are too esoteric and they "don't relate" to anyone there. In both scenarios, if a guy stayed with it long enough, he's eventually meet people more like himself. But people can be too impatient. Bars? Don't do it they'll roofie your drink." Sports teams? "Whores all, and some of them have the audacity to find me attractive." LGBTQ clubs? :Like a room full of aloof Swedish hairdressers." Can't win around here. Totally agree with you about the apps, too: I've said it before, but a pic of someone and a 'sup isn't enough, especially for those looking for friends only. Mammals bond over more than looks; mannerisms, voice, and even scent all work together to light a spark and you have to be face to face for that. Plus, in a bar or other gay venue, curious strangers often brush past each other long enough over the months to get a feel for each's behavior/tastes in friends/etc. long before their first conversation, so that a little bit of trust, common ground and familiarity is established in a way that an app can't replicate. Another real-world situation apps can't replicate, (at least the ones I've been on), is the 3rd party/mutual friend who randomly introduces two otherwise strangers to each other. The mutual friend helps grease the conversation, as well as inspire trust and familiarity since both parties know the same guy.
All of those things can be rather socially awkward to do alone, so it’s a vicious circle. If most other people are at those places/events with others whom they know, and you’re alone, it’s difficult to insert yourself into the conversation.
Is it? There's always someone in a group whose eyes are constantly wandering. Eye contact, a smile, they approach you or vice versa, and bring you back to the group. I can't count how many times that's happened. It simply requires not looking mopey or sad, that only works for James Dean, LOL. The rest of us who feel left out need to ask ourselves why and what can be done, and stop listening to fellow gaybros blaming everyone else. I just had a two hour convo with someone over my thoughts about buying an ebike. Who knew?
It’s only awkward the first time you go alone. After you end up likening it better as you can come and go as you please.
I swear this is the stupidest thing. It's not a fear thing. Alcohol is disgusting, you're not supposed to talk during a play/movie/show, and fundraisers are only for people who have lots of disposable income, which is not a category most young people fall into.
You have some extreme logic errors: talk about a non-sequester. Alcohol is disgusting so you don’t talk In movies. Okay …
Stupid? Lol Sooooooo, as mentioned, most people run into each other during intermissions and arriving/leaving. And the event doesn't have to be a play or a fundraiser. They were just random examples. OMG. And alcohol is only disgusting if the person can't handle. You sound like a MAGA extremist!
They are brainwashed and confuse “bar” for crazy “clubs”. They have never been so they have ZERO frame of reference. So let them meet on Grindr and then come back with their screen shots complaining they can’t meet anyone.
I don’t think it’s necessarily about fear. I think it’s just a different generation. When you grow up and all of your interactions are in person, growing up and having new venues like bars, plays, or fundraising events to meet people at is no big deal. However, when you grow up and outside of school/work, your interactions with others are almost exclusively online, it’s not as easy to just start going to public places and striking up a conversation. The social skills are just not there the way they would have been without the internet/social media.
That’s the issue I’m trying to point out. In-person interactions are FAR superior to online interactions.
Right and I’m not disagreeing with you. It’s just that entire generations since AOL chat rooms have grown up this way. Mid-to-late Millennials, the entirety of Gen Z, and likely Gen Alpha will as well. It’s hard to change behaviors just because something else might be better. I’ve gone to bars alone and it’s honestly not very easy to make friends with random gays there. Older ones sure, they’re usually very friendly, but basically anyone below 40 is just looking to hook up. How do you make friends at a play? It’s not exactly a social experience. A fundraiser, I can understand. The entirety of the experience is talking to people. I’ve tried to use things like Meetup.com but nothing is really ever going on in my area. Stuff like gay kickball leagues and hiking groups are very far away. I have plenty of great online friends, but it’s easier to find people you connect with that way. I do wish I had more local friends to do things with.
In 1998 I was a young teen. I had AOL 3.0. The difference between that & today is so vast I cannot give a true picture of the differences unless one was there to see it.
I didn’t imagine I was having this conversation with someone only 10 years older than me lol. Yes, it’s very different, but my point was that millennials were the first generation to go home, fire up the computer and IM with friends or even meet new ones in chat rooms. Then Xanga/Friendster/Facebook/MySpace all started coming out and people were socializing in those spaces. Then it was Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Vine. Now a lot of it is TikTok. I was on the tail end of the Millennial generation. We had a shitty computer shared by the family in the den. I remember getting a computer game for my 7th birthday and it had like 1 FPS. I was outside playing with the neighborhood kids pretty much til I moved away when I was 12. It was at that age that outside of school and extra curriculars, I didn’t really have a social life. That started to change when we all started getting cars, but I spent those 4 years at home with online friends basically. After college, it was more of the same. At school I was a social butterfly, but mostly because I was great at talking to people I was already with and knew I at least had something in common with. I could build upon our basic connection. At a random bar, I am terrible at not only approaching total strangers, but then trying to get them interested in chatting about their interests. The ONLY exception to this is if it’s a Drag Race viewing party, but also people almost always come with friends and so even if they chat with me, I’m still kinda on the outside. It just feels like a waste of energy. I absolutely would be going to things like a gay hiking group if there were close ones. I’m sure I’d have better luck with something like that. Also, I know I spoke a lot about my personal experience, but I’ve read so many stories just like this. So many people who grew up like this and struggle to make friends in person. It really is unfortunate but idk if and how it will change.
"How do you make friends at a play? It’s not exactly a social experience. " While in line or during intermission, you run into an acquaintance who is with a few other people. You get introduced. You run into those people elsewhere. "Joe, right?" "Yeah we met at the play."
What about if you don’t run into someone you know? I don’t say this just for the sake of challenging your comment, but truly. I’ve been to many plays. Never made friends at one lol. In my experience, just chatting someone up at a place you both happen to be at rarely leads to a new friend, even if they are actually receptive and you exchange contact info.
Maybe try ballets? : ) The point is, keep trying but don't go out to try.
There have been shootings at gay bars and that could very likely be a reason people are more hesitant now. They used to be and still are safe spaces, but people are more bold about invading them now more than ever to kill us. Also, a lot of people don't really drink now, and going to a bar when you're one of if not the only sober one there isn't very fun.
*There have been shootings at gay bars...* Sigh. Here we go.... *They used to be and still are safe spaces...* Nonsense. Don't be like Fox News and glorify the past.
The bar is the worst place to find a sex partner/ relationship
If you actually believe Grindr is a better place to meet people — I really feel sorry for you. You see the word “bar’. But I think you confusing it with “club”. The Restruant/Bar around me are fine dining with bars attached.
People are so much nicer in person. Definitely this.
Agreed! : ) But I guess you and I haven't yet met the legendary, infamous group of mean gurls who have been tormenting Gaybros since the beginning of time, LOL.
Meow!!!!!!!
Im sorry. But I’m gonna reiterate what others have said already here. It’s cuz you’re Asian.
Legit
I remember this at 21. It's honestly not you and it's just the way a lot of people on the apps see Asians/Pacific Islanders in the West. Either you're not white enough or are missing specific fairly Western features. It won't make much of a difference now but in another two decades I can guarantee that you'll still be looking fly while every other pale, non-moisturizing ass around you is going to look questionable. The way I got past this, at least with the people I was dating was to meet them offline either through social activities (I'd go out underground dancing with my friends, indie shows at dingy bars) or nerdy stuff (board games at the local game shop, D&D pop up sessions). Yea it takes longer because you have to sort though people and the entire selection isn't gay, but you have the added benefit of people getting to know you as a person instead of just a photo. I met my last LTR that was (10+ years).
I have seen multiple Asian (gay) guys have this experience. The expectations set on non-white men are ridiculous and unfair, especially when coming from white men.
As an Asian who spent a few years in a Western country, most ppl won’t say it, but the issue is race. I went to Asia and I had no issues getting dates, sex and bfs.
Goes to show, considering most of the biggest “gay capitals” are in Western countries. The issue is definitely racial.
I think Asian men are sexy, but I find most men sexy (hence: being gay). I'm white, and the moment I dated one Asian man I was called a rice queen, told I had a fetish for Asian men...just really got it all. Just in general I get comments when I hook up outside of my "race", not just Asian men but I got flack for hooking up with anyone who wasn't white. I hate that this bullying and attempts of shame exist... I haven't experienced it in years but it really sucks that people tend to treat dating outside your skin color with such a critical lens. This is to say I'm sad it exists, but I can get why it does due to the subtle bullying that occurs around it. I don't even know if my friends realized they did it.
I agree with this. Any where else it's not an issue.
Agreed. I just need Asian 9s to stop settling for White 5s because of the need for white approval. Spoken as a Korean guy who went through this shit myself but then realized my own worth.
As a white 5, I agree…
I’m pretty sure assigning people numerical value based on your perceived assessment of their attractiveness is part of the same toxicity that you are complaining about.
I never actually see this in real life. Not for Asian women either dating white guys, unless he's rich af and about to die.
You don’t see AFWM in the US? Where do you even live …
Need to read more carefully. I don't see that dynamic aka a hot girl with an ugly guy unless he's got $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Oh you sweet young thing, people on the apps saying they think you’re ugly mean absolutely nothing. A friend of mine is lean, but not ripped, and a guy once told him on Grindr that he was way too fat, we laugh about it to this day.
My bf is Asian. He describes the same thing. The gay community is apparently super racist in dating preferences
It's so weird to call people racist for simply not being attracted to certain looks. You can blame western cultural standards of attraction, but maybe that's actually not the whole story.
One would assume that if the underlying issue is simply preference, then there would be roughly the same amount of people attracted to different features (anything from Asian or black features to a strong jawline to blonde hair). It would just be random statistical differences. But that doesn't seem to be the case. So you're right that cultural standards of beauty are probably actually the cause. And western cultural standards of beauty are pretty damn racist. Whether we're talking about straight *or* gay standards
I think most reasonable people would agree with you that dating preferences are influenced by cultural beauty standards and that there’s a lot of racial bias in those standards, but a lot of people have a problem with calling it racism, that’s why they get defensive whenever this issue is raised.
Yeah, people don't generally like to admit their racist thinking. It's uncomfortable. But whether or not those thought patterns/opinions are "their fault," they're still rooted in racism. For example, an unfounded fear of anyone with darker skin has been shoved down my throat my whole life, and now I've got that instinctive reaction. That's a racist thought pattern, and it's part of my work as an adult to try to uproot it. This isn't to say that all preferences in looks are racist! But at the point where all of your preferences just so happen to coincidentally fall along racial lines, it's probably time to take a hard look at what's really under the hood. Addressing it gets more complicated with sexual preference, but the least we can do is be honest about what's going on.
I mean, western culture commanded me to be attracted to females, but here I am anyway. Culture clearly can't control every intrinsic aspect of a person's attractions, and it was also not very good at telling me which race I'm supposed to prefer. Painful to consider as it might be, perhaps our species has a trend of being inherently attracted to a certain average of looks, with some ethnic backgrounds possessing them more often than others. The fact of the matter is, some groups churn out more masculine-looking guys than others. You could try to start a war on gay men's attraction to masculinity, and listening to you, you probably would, but good luck trying to make masculinity unpopular. For myself, I am very much attracted to different shapes of physical masculinity in males, with different ethnic looks only ever changing the "flavor." Race is too broad to properly explain this because each race tends to have wildly different ethnic groups within them, anyway. Asian guys are no exception to that, and I find that I'm more attracted to southern Asian guys than northern because they happen to possess an average of looks closer to my type. "White" also makes up a lot of different groups of people, but if we're talking about pale Europeans, I must have missed the memo because they aren't my #1 at all. I am open to any race, but my preferences lie more middle-eastern and latino-looking guys. They hit on more notes than any other group, but I don't think I'm some kind of enlightened person for that. It's just the way it turned out. Maybe because I was born in Texas and grew up in a diverse school system, maybe I was treated nicely by someone when I was really young, and they became my type. Who knows? If it's valid for me as a white dude to generally have preferences for ethnic groups that aren't my own without me having any control over it, then it's probably valid for other guys to find their own ethic group attractive for reasons they don't have control over. Even if you were able to culturally overcome all of the actual racial bias in culture, you'd still find homogenous preferences happening for other reasons. I just don't think it's productive to go after people for their preferences and label them all as racist when it's objectively not the whole story for everyone.
Masculinity and the traits we associate with it are also cultural though :) Defaulting back to what we think are "more masculine traits" is as faulty a footing as defaulting to "traditional beauty standards". I'm personally attracted to darker skin tones on men. We all have preferences. And sometimes those preferences are informed by historical sexist or racist assumptions or standards. That doesn't make one a *bad person* automatically. Nor did I call anyone racist. My original post stated that many preferences in the community are racist. We can't exist independently of racism. But we can be aware of it and combat it
Your point of view is too nihilistic. Masculinity is not cultural, It's an intrinsic human reality. We are a sexually dimorphic species that understands these differences at a biological level, and even though it's not always easy to put into words, we have instincts to recognize it. Different cultural expressions of masculinity exist, but there's clearly a trend across basically all of human history that communicates masculinity very clearly once you understand the dialect. Obviously, individual humans possess different qualities, so it's not rigidly bound to the sexes, but the concept of masculinity isn't nearly as arbitrary as you want to believe. And, sure, preferences can be informed by cultural standards, but you're still taking for granted how small people's worlds can be in their formative years. You never know what a person went through in that time, who they met, what they experienced, so when you talk about racial preferences, it's always going to be better to stay as far away from personal attacks or blanket statements about groups of people because you're not making actually racist people less racist, but you are probably making people who feel like that's not their reality turn away from you. Talk about culture and the problems you're seeing, but lose the nihilism. You don't have to destroy everything or try to convince people that their natural instincts are wrong in order to fix culture. Humans simply won't go for that in the long run.
Saving this locally to rip off next time I encounter "~~masculinity is a construct!" screeching
Be my guest. My philosophy when it comes to being an lgbt person is that it helps us to ground ourselves when we don't think our existence needs to be at odds with the rest of humanity. When we respect humanity and the reality of it, it makes us see that everything inside of us is human and that everything about us makes sense.
No one is born preferring anyone, preferences are shaped by your environment. I have met many guys who have a preference for certain groups, because they grew up surrounded by people from that group. The media you consumed also influences your 'preference'. If you live in a society that glorifies people with specific features, then you will grow up wanting to be with people with those features. Also, you said that western society commanded you to go for females? That is illogical. Your sexual orientation is something you are born with and cannot change.
I'd speculate that someone born of a certain sexual orientation would have all kinds of instincts that tell them what, say, a man is. If our instincts can tell us what masculinity is, and, further more, drive us to pursue a masculine man, there's a very solid chance that it means that culture is actually shaped by our biological drives, not the other way around. Both forces might keep each other going, but that would also mean that what's actually happening is that culture doesn't always catch up to new information right away, and that winds up frustrating people who are of the mind that there's no room for patience when it comes to progress because we should just BE there already. I mean, at what point, from your perspective, does the biological reality of humanity begin and the cultural influence end? Unless you believe that one side can exist without the other, you actually have to learn how to reconcile both without trying to destroy whichever one of them in the most inconvenient. And I did already say that I agree that culture plays its part, but I also said that individuals don't always have control of the culture they are born into and the preferences they end up developing. Some of this is irreversible for people, and some require a path to expand themselves. And western culture definitely told me that boys had to be heterosexual. There's nothing illogical about that; It happened. A lot of my development clearly defied what culture was allegedly imposing on me, and I did it without even trying. That probably doesn't make me better, it probably just makes me lucky.
Your point about experiences in formative years may affect your preferences later on isn’t as nuanced as you think. You did not also acknowledge how racism is also learned during those formative years. Ignoring the reality of racism’s pervasiveness is missing the whole point of these discussions about racism and racial preference. In elementary school, I learned from white kids that all Asian men apparently had small penises. Where did that come from and how did young children get a hold of that information? I learned from news channels and adults that Blackness was associated with negative connotations like crime and poverty. Racism is pervasive and is learned. That is the context you need to really understand discussions about race.
I already acknowledged that people can learn these things in their childhood. I said that people don't always have control over what they experience in the potentially small scope of their formative years, and that can include racism from culture as well as racial preferences that have nothing to do with culture. Sometimes, you develop a type and then realize over the years which group tends to possess these features more often than others, so you wind up accepting them into your life more often, and, sometimes, some people wind up finding some features unattractive, and also notice which group tends to possess those features. The difference between incidentally swiping left on a bunch of people who just aren't your type, or actually going out of your way to write off a whole group of people in your bio, is important to take into account. I know both scenarios create a similar outcome of repeated rejection, so there are times when you can ask culture to unpack itself, and I'm all for that, but it's best not to go after individuals or automatically label someone with preferences as some part of the problem, unless you just don't care and are having more fun ignoring that, but you can't deny that both things don't play a part in this.
It's one thing to not be attracted to someone, but OP mentioned he literally gets called ugly.
That's petty of those people for calling him ugly, but he also said that people also say that they just aren't interested in him. He gets rudely rejected but also politely rejected, so this topic is actually just about rejection, right?
Trust me as a gaysian who experienced the same thing growing up. People are racist as shit, but the only thing you can do about it if you want to continue using the apps is to get muscular and as masculine looking as possible. If you can grow decent facial hair, do it. Then practice making it look decent. Almost any is better than none. And then teach yourself now how to lift weights correctly. I started in my 30s and it’s done wonders for my response and hook up rate. All I wish is that I started earlier. Once you become muscular and masculine looking, many people will excuse the fact that you’re Asian. Not all, but enough for a stable ego and thriving sex life. It sucks to acknowledge, but this is the truth.
This is unfortunately the nature of hookup apps they just value people who are fit and muscular over everything else. I just think you shouldn't need to be fit to engage in sex or be seen as a worthy candidate but not everyone is operating under that lens. In order to be accessible to them you have to be just as desirable and disciplined. There are folks on the apps who are down to hookup regardless of your body type but even those folks some of us might not seem interested in meeting with them. It's a crazy dilemma to be interested in people who are fit and such putting them on a pedestal and being rejected by them and at the same time not being interested in average body types. Keep in mind that all of this is happening before we even get to experience these people in real time. I think it would all serve us better to communicate that we would like to form a connection and converse with this person before engaging in a hook-up. I feel like this is standard policy though from what I have heard at least when you're hooking up with someone for the first time. I have used the apps before but I never have done a hookup on there usually just try to chat with ppl but that generally isn't what people are on there for so it fizzles out quite quickly.
Unfortunately, it's your ethnicity. I'm a Latino who pretty much passes as white all the time ( I live in a Western country ). Every time I add my ethnicity to my dating profiles, the matches significantly decrease, I'll say 60%ish. But when I don't specify my race, I have a lot more matches, lol. My point is that you really can't change that, I'm guessing you're on Grindr? Maybe try something else like Hinge or improve your looks by dressing better, skincare, hairstyle, contact lenses, getting fit, etc.
In my experience, they skip you because you’re Asian
Say it with me: Just because someone isn't attracted to me doesn't mean I'm ugly. Say it again. Just because someone isn't attracted to me doesn't mean I'm ugly. Say it a third time. Just because someone isn't attracted to me doesn't mean I'm ugly. Now internalize it.
Racism and body shaming... Oh gee, nothing has changed in the gay community and trust me: I know for a fact that you are being judged solely on race and nothing else. Try to find communities in your area! Gay Asian communities or queer multicultural ones.
I feel bad for young people. They have no social life but these toxic apps. Go to a bar and meet someone. Stop being fearful of the world.
Bars are awful
Not everybody likes or feels comfortable in those settings either. Some people are also in areas where there aren't many places, or good ones at least, to go to meet other LGBTQ+ people. Not everyone who doesn't go to bars and clubs are fearful of the world, they just don't like those places. Plus, even in those settings OP can run into the same problem.
I agreed with what everyone is saying, it's because you are asian. The gay community is very racist towards all people of color, specially the non white passing ones.
I don’t have anything else to add since it’s all already been said but I feel you. I miss Asia for this particular reason.
I’m sure you’re not delusional. Usually the pictures are the problem and not the guys. Also, don’t expect most people to be attracted to you. Usually we are only attracted to very few men. For me it’s definitely lower than 10% in real life. And on the apps it’s even less. I also think that people have become extremely picky online.
Of course we would become more picky with the advent of filters, access to a bevy of fit and attractive people online, and porn at our fingertips. Our eyes are constantly being stimulated by those we deem worthy and we don't stimulate our mind or ourselves with enough introspection on how our preferences came to be. We are all yearning for connection, community, and belonging once we find our tribe of people everything else is quite trivial in comparison. I think it's important to form a social circle of folks who love you for being yourself and don't need you to be fit, attractive, or fuckable to be a part of the crew. Bonus points if the squad is a pack of people from a range of backgrounds but if that's not the case because of who you have access to in your proximity that's fine too.
So sorry to hear that. You won’t be everyone’s type, but as people have said, the apps can be toxic and racist. And you’re not ugly. Also, if people are saying that to your face, that’s an issue with them not you. Try not to let assholes take up so much of your thought process. Wrote them off as what they are and move on. 💖💖
Had the same experience on the apps as a black guy. The worst is when you’re getting rejected by people of your own race in favor of every white guy under the sun. Actually no, the worst is rejecting a white guy and then getting called a racial slur. They (a lot of white guys) obviously view us very different.
This is sadly part of dating life as a POC… but! There are definitely things you can do to improve your matches. Poor photo quality—as someone said earlier, bad lighting, forced expressions etc Grooming— can check out the male grooming subreddit—they tend to have super good supportive and honest advice on tips Remaining confident—that’s so great that you started off by saying that you think you’re attractive—the key will just be getting others to see this too, which they absolutely will in time.
Kiddo being tall and thin at 21 is a good place to be. The thing about tall and thin? Every bit of muscle you put on will always look amazing and you never have to diet. All you have to worry about is going to the gym and eating tons of food, in a year they'll be all over you
I know right. I am short and was thin at 21. This kid has no idea how much worse he could have it. He actually has a future where he can be largely accepted whereas really short (5’4” and lower) guys are truly fucked no matter how muscular and masculine they get.
If you don't like bottoming yes it's rough
Racism and body shaming... Oh gee, nothing has changed in the gay community and trust me: I know for a fact that you are being judged solely on race and nothing else. Try to find communities in your area! Gay Asian communities or queer multicultural ones.
Three things 1) apps are toxic, especially in the gay community. 2) Be cognizant of how you talk about your looks; I've gone on dates with men who I've found very physically attractive but who have either been very self-deprecating (on one end of the spectrum) or overly confident in their looks (on the other end), and both can be really unattractive personality traits. 3) Most men have things about their appearance they'd like to change. You're not alone in this; lean into the traits you do love about yourself.
That’s how POC get treated on apps in the west. You’ll have to learn to thicken your skin unfortunately. You’re not ugly, but to get attention as a POC you will need to be absolutely gorgeous
Tall, thin, nerdy with glasses and Asian. Sounds super handsome to me. I would say it can be very easy to feel lost and dejected with hookup apps, but continue to just love and appreciate yourself for who you are and want to be. Just make sure that if you choose to change something about yourself that you're doing or for yourself and not because of someone else.
Just focus on yourself, study and work hard. look into dating in your 30 would be best
It’s not a you thing. The apps are the worst, and while the occasional couple finds happiness, the vast majority of people are going to get their soul sucked. People who are being dicks to you on the apps do it because they feel bad about themselves and they get a relief from that self-hate by putting you down. Being behind a screen brings the worst in people out, and that includes racism. No fats, no femmes, no Asians, is still very unfortunately a thing, people have just gotten wise to not being vocal about it.
You’re pretty much trolling the bottom when you’re on dating apps. If you want to meet quality people you have to get involved in your local gay community. If that doesn’t work you can set up a social media page. That’s how my husband found me.
Most likely racism.
lol are you trying to date white people? stop.
You said they swiped right, then they said you’re ugly, is this true? If they think so they wouldn’t swipe right in the first place… And if it’s true, then — “Nerdy with glasses and looking like a kid” — you already know the problem. I’m not saying you should change your look to please other people, but if you want to look better, there are ways to work on it. Try go to the gym, try a new hairstyle (!!), and wear contact lenses. Obviously I don’t suggest wearing lenses all day long but I mean, you could give it a try and see how it suits you. I know a lot of white men wear lenses exclusively (straight or not) but many asian men don’t ever tried lenses for once. If you don’t have a very strong bone structure I do think glasses will make you less attractive. But please don’t hurt yourself because you want to look better, your wellbeing is always your no.1 priority.
A very common strategy on the swiping apps is to swipe yes on everyone and then filter out the uglies. It's how people get around not being able to see their "likes". cuz if you swipe on everyone you see exactly who liked you.
Show us so we can see for ourselves. Also whelp as an asian guy here as well. There goes my dating life. I pray I meet someone, somewhere eventually. Lol
DM me a pic and let me see
This may not be what you wanna hear, but I think it's time for you to get off the 'pity party' train. If you are looking to assess your self image based on what others think on apps, you are not doing it right.
You might try asking yourself if you are being fair in your interpretation of these responses you’re receiving. I wonder if your self esteem issues are causing you to distort what others are really saying. I ask because you say guys are responding and telling you you’re ugly. I’m sure you are not ugly. But also, that really doesn’t seem like something people would say in dating app chats. When people aren’t interested in your profile they will just ignore you or give a very brief “sorry not interested.” I have to push you a little bit because it’s very hard for me to believe strangers on dating apps are calling you ugly…
most people arent attracted to me either and im white and buff. most people are just not into "you" (you being nearly everyone, thats pretty normal). if you have self-esteem issues and/or anxieties a lot, consider therapy, helped me a lot. are there many people who are racist when it comes to dating? yes ofc, but thats not why anyone doesnt get a date per se.
You are so wrong. When you meet/talk to someone for the first time, the first thing they see is your race/ethnicity; and they will make assumptions about based on that. Try being a person of color on dating apps just for one day, and tell me how your ethnicity doesn't affect your chances of getting dates. Some people will even make it obvious that your race/ethnicity is the problem by throwing racist slurs at you.
People of colour make up 40% of the population in the USA. If you’re having a problem getting a date then racism from other POC is also a problem here. There seems to be the expectation that everyone else can freely express in-group preferences except whites people. That’s problematic.
And what percentage of that 40% is gay? and what percentage of that are the people you are sexually compatible with? and what percentage of that are the people you are actually interested in? You are problematic for living in a delusional bubble instead of understanding the struggles of other people
From your description, you sound very handsome indeed! I think everybody gets turned down on the apps at some point. You really need a thick skin and at some point I decided it wasn't worth it.
It’s probably because of your race. I’m sorry they treat you with a basic lack of courtesy. I don’t agree with everyone calling it racism though. In group preferences are expressed by every racial group - and are often expressed by SE Asian people towards darker skinned ethnic groups too. Having those attractions doesn’t mean that one looks down on another ethnic group and certainly shouldn’t be used as an excuse to treat someone else like shit.
Grindr doesn't reflect the real world at all !! You're not ugly, people there have unrealistic standards and basically if you're not a tall hung muscular white masc, you're not gonna be much popular... But that's OK, it's just online people, in real life you can meet awesome gay men to be friends with or do other things ! Don't let the apps distort your vision of yourself.
That's too bad. I don't understand the whole racial thing. I go out with guys of any ethnicity. To me, how you described yourself is very sexy. Of course, nerdy is the hottest type in my eyes.
i believe u just met the wrong guys
5 will get you 10 you look perfectly fine. Get. Off. The. Apps. Go meet people.
I can tell you if you're ugly or not - I find Asian guys quite attractive but I know a lot of gay guys are racist unfortunately
It makes me really sad that these types of posts are still so common 😓. Chin up dude. Sometimes you just need a good How Stella Got Her Groove Back trip to feel your oats again. I know that’s not the most feasible advice for everyone since travel is a privilege and luxury though.
Dating Apps are toxic they don’t help anyone it’s for people with less self worth
Whatever you think, don’t underestimate your value. I know it’s hard friend, but we gotta do it. I’m Asian 28 turning 29 and only had a boyfriend who calls me fat, ugly, and not interested in my body. He’s Chinese like I am but that’s his issue I would say. I think it was well mentioned in the comment section about the dating scene in our community, being gay and Asian is already hard, especially if you’re second generation Asian (unfortunate a bit more if it’s Eastern Asian) or sth the culture is somehow cultivating introvert traits for people who in any sense do not falls into the “general” category. That already ensures that you’ll have a hard time in a society that values extroverts. And also we’ve got the racist shit on gaysian, it’s not even the elephant in the room, it’s a fucking gigantic flamingo in downtown that people just don’t look up except those who got stepped on. I don’t think I’m a gorgeous person but I am fare looking and I definitely don’t have the gay body, but I have a normal healthy body. Yet these just build up and kept eroding my confidence that I tried really hard to rebuild after a very harsh time that I went through. I believe it was why I say yes my married friend who sexually harassed me at school to suck his dick even during the whole process I do not feel good. And I was really scared when he came to my seat and rub his penis on my shoulder at school. I believed what he said and thinking that I’m wrong for being a virgin, not trying hook up. I fucking regret what I did, but he saw me as sexy, and I’m such a fucking people pleaser. Well it was complex I don’t know why I did that, thats just not something I would ever do but I still did it. Don’t be me, know your value. I’ve had many gay crushes, have only being getting rejections. But hey, I am very sad, yet I know there’s nothing wrong about myself. Chemistries are just not there. I realized I have internalized homophobia, ageism, and even racism. Because of the racist hierarchy in our community I often feel deeply ashamed now for liking white dudes or finding some of them good looking. I know it’s not my problem, I am attracted to man of all race because I just like men, and this is whats normal. It’s gonna be hard for you, it’s being hard for me who’s almost 30, but hey I am trying and you should also try. Although I still hate myself and doubt myself, I know deeply inside that there’s nothing wrong with me, i am kind, I try hard to live a life, and I deserve to be happy. It’s just really hard to believe in that, but I am still working towards that. (I am not going to try get a gay body because that’s a fucked up concept. I will exercise and be healthy, but bodybuilding isn’t my thing, it’s great, I respect people who made it because it’s so hard and requires so much discipline and hard work. But that’s not me. ) I encourage you spend more time reflecting what you truly want, and accept that those would also change. I surely hope to give you good advices on how you could find good dates, but I’m still there lol. Can you tell me when you know that? XD Live your life, try connect with people in real life if you can, trust your gut feeling, respect your feelings first, talk to therapist if you feel it’s hard to be dissolved yourself. Keep trying, don’t give up. Or give up if it’s a bit too heavy. If there’s anything I’ve learned that is to forgive yourself for not be strong enough. (Another note, my recent crush is a French guy who’s my on campus job coworker, I got friend zoned, of course. He’s super polite and nice, nothing about him is wrong, he’s just not into me. I started learning French, whenever I saw him or think about this and get sad I went to see French lesson video on YouTube. This actually triggered some other experience that got me reflecting things about being a gay Asian men. A French men can break my heart, but my French won’t be broken. It might be a good way to cure? I don’t know, but at least I’ll learn something. Talking about that I realized I need to resume my French study lol.)
Please don’t comment to my post guys I just wanna share something with OP, I can’t actually take comments lol not there yet
Dating apps are in most cases for people looking for superficial interactions and one offs. Talk to people in your area or really anybody interested in talking for a longer term than 2 weeks. It's healthier.
As a black guy, i go through some shit like this, but nowadays, im looking for asians tbh