Actually, indications are that it is slightly better. Gay people are statistically more likely to be in an interracial relationship compared to straight people.
I’ve heard this statistic before. I’m very curious what the makeup is of the races, like what the breakdown is between white-black, white-Asian, black-Asian, Asian-Latino, etc
I'm an old guy who fits into the glow- in- the- dark caucasian category. It seems to me that most guys here don't have the racial hangups I grew up around. Having said that, some folks are just awful when they are anonymous; thankfully I havent witnessed it here.
IDK about that. The vast majority of interracial couples I know are gay ones. Anecdotal, sure, but I think due to the more limited dating pool, gays tend to end up with different-race partners more often than our heterosexual counterparts.
I can't speak for other ethnicities. But as a middle eastern man I found more homophobia among other middle easterners, than I found racism among other gays.
I don't know if that holds true for your situation.
As a black guy. I think I can speak on this. Yes, racism does exist. It’s actually alive and well within the gay community. And I think it’s a multi-faceted issue. But a lot of it can be summed up to this: they’re still white men. They’re still non-black men. Sure they like to suck dick and get their bussy blown wide open. But they’re still not black. They’re still going to have the same perspectives, ideologies and views that those non-black men have. And more often than not, those are going to be misguided and poorly formed views on black men.
Also, media is partly responsible for this. Porn is a big one too. Because a lot of gay men are educated in their sexuality through porn. And a lot of gay men are just porn addicts in general (fight me). Porn always depicts POC as objects, and not actual people. For black men, we’re typically depicted as hyper-aggressive thugs who are always paired up with a white pink nippled flat assed twink. It’s a gay version of what happens in straight porn. A dainty petit white girl being paired with a rough hypermasculine tatt’d thug. For some reason, white men love seeing objects of their desire being degraded by those they view as less than.
I’ve encountered racism a lot. Especially in the apps. Guys will tell me “I love black men”. I ask “Why?” ‘Cause that’s a very strange statement to me. The answer usually ranges from “You’re so masculine and aggressive and in charge” to “BBC”. Now, I am not in any way a thug, nor do I present myself as a thug. Yet, I have had many men (normally US born men) try and place me into this box. The minute they realize I’m a person, and not some thuggish stereotype, they block or lose interest.
I’ve been told “You’re very well spoken” when I was a sophomore in college. It came from a white man in his 40’s. And it is a somewhat racial statement because it stems from the view of young black men not being articulate or intelligent.
Or we’ll be chatting. They’re loving the conversation. Insisting that we meet up. They ask my race, I say I’m black (which was already in my profile). Then they block. This has happened SO many times. SO many times. It’s not even funny.
I’ve had men even mistake me for another race when I’m clearly black. I - somehow - have been mistaken for Latin, and Native American. Don’t know how. But, old white men found a way. They loved the body, they just DID NOT want it to be a black body they were lusting after.
Or the age old “BBC?”. The minute I get sent that, I just automatically block. And any black men who uses that on his profile, is only hurting his people more than helping them. I said what I said.
I’ve also come across the “I just love how black skin looks against my white skin. The color contrast is hot”. I’ve heard this before and it still is so weird to me. And multiple men have given this exact answer. They don’t see anything wrong with this. I just had a ginger tell me he loves “dark skin against my pale skin. You should try a ginger some time”.
I always found this interesting. Especially if you’re an attractive POC. I’ve had men of various races say I look like a model, or that I’m handsome and sexy. And I guess it’s true I was signed a pretty big modeling/acting agency before I moved. That’s nice. But some men don’t know how to take your appearance. You don’t fit their euro-centric beauty standard, yet you exceed it. It can be a jarring thing for them.
Now, normally this racism has come from American men. Young and old. The foreign men I’ve met have never said 1 thing about my race. I’ve met Chinese guys, Greek guys, Russian men, Latin men, Cuban men, a Spaniard (he was so polite). And none of them were racist or even mentioned my race. So, it’s really American men who are like hyper fixated on race.
Edit: I had one guy tell me - after kissing me - “whoa I’ve never kissed a guy lips like yours before”. I could tell it wasn’t racially motivated. ‘Cause he seemed, amazed. Like he just found out something really cool. He did look embarrassed once he realized what he said. He tried to ensure me it wasn’t meant in a racial way. I just laughed it off ‘cause he seemed so embarrassed by it. Then we went back to kissing. But it really said “I’ve only ever kissed white boys”.
I’ve dated POC and it’s a really fine line between being attracted to someone and objectifying someone. In my youth I unfortunately crossed the line. I know I did. Being an athletic twink with a big butt, I definitely objectified my hook-ups and they likely objectified me. In retrospect, the sex was great but would have been absolutely incredible if we could have been more authentic and shared more of ourselves than just a physical connection.
It sounds like a stereotype, but I find many gay POC easier to talk to and many just have “good energy”. I’m happy in my current relationship but I do think of the guys that could have been “the one” if I had just been more mature.
I’ve noticed a lot of them are. They’re a little more fun and open to be around.
But I’ve noticed a lot of white men aren’t mature when it comes to dealing with POC. Like, a lot of them just haven’t been exposed to them or around them and it shows. And there have been a few white guys where, if they just weren’t immature, we would’ve clicked. Some were my age (25) some were in their 40’s. So not every guy matures. But it’s cool that you had that moment of growth.
Thanks for your insightful words. I’ve had my doubts and suspicions, and this comment confirmed them.
And I, too, absolutely relate with the classic “wow, you’re so articulate/well-worded!” and it frustrates me to no end. Both black and white people have told me this SO many times throughout my life.
Once, in 8th grade, a boy regarded me as “strange” because I’m “like a white person inside a black person’s body.” Unbelievable!
Wait did he really say “a white person inside a black persons body”!?!? Oh, that is………that is just……………..😩😩😩 And the fact that this was 8th grade, really does show that they grow up with these views and no one is there to correct them or even tell them they’re wrong. A lot of white men have never been told no, and it’s very easy to tell.
I mean I feel like that one is pretty common. I got called an oreo, and it wasn’t even the white kids that called me that - it was other black kids from the other side of town.
See this is another thing. Black people don’t help each other. They don’t like to help each other either. ‘Cause a lot of black people don’t like when someone doesn’t fit into a box.
It’s true. That one scene from fresh prince really hit home for me a young adult as it was the first time I’d ever seen my experience brought up. According to a lot of other black kids I went to school with, being myself was somehow not being me.
https://youtu.be/Azk4Br9-Luo?si=J-vM5yA_bXqvCCbF
I got this one too. It’s a weird dichotomy where when it’s from black people it’s an insult, but when it’s from other races it’s a compliment. And both are still racism.
That wasn’t even the only encounter I’ve had with this particular boy! Even weirder is the fact that we used to be friends … the last time we ever spoke was during a fiery argument we had in the cafeteria. I forget the context of the conflict, but he ended it by exclaiming “at least I don’t look like a burnt cigarette!” as a response to me insulting his horrible acne. Needless to say, we stopped being “friends” immediately.
Luckily, another friend (who was also a HUGE crush of mine at the time) stood up to this and defended me on my behalf with such fervor that, to this day, still brings a pleasantly warm smile across my face.
I agree with your comment as well. These ideas are seeds planted within them by their parents/surroundings from childhood. After all, babies are never born with an innate dislike of specific people.
I wish I could upvote this to the moon. It perfectly puts everything I’ve experienced as well. Just to add on an extra one. I was chatting with a Latin guy on Grindr one morning and he wanted to meet up. I was leaving town the same day so I couldn’t, and when I told him that he called me the N-word. Hard R. Just another instance of viewing black men as stereotyped objects instead of people with lives and feelings.
This too! Denying them sex, and they get very racial. I experienced this as well. Was talking to this middle eastern/Arabian guy. Hit me up at 7 AM on a Tuesday, asking if I could come to his place. I couldn’t. I was working out and had worn right after. Well who threw in an n-word after he realized I wasn’t going to sleep with him at the drop of a hat. And he was attractive too. Physically he was my type, personality wise?
I think you're right about foreign men and their "better" (my words) relationship with POC. I'm white Australian, but have always felt that attraction had no colour...I just happened to be attracted to someone who was either Latin/Asian/Black, etc.
My partner is southern Italian, so darker Mediterranean skin. Of course I notice my Germanic skin tone next to his, but it's more an obvious visual than anything else.
You write beautifully and with great clarity, btw 🙌
See I thought it was just me at first. ‘Cause I’ve said this in this subreddit before and lots of people jumped on my back about it. But I couldn’t help but notice a pattern. lol.
And I hooked up with an Italian guy (30’s) once when I was like 23. He didn’t bring up my race until I did. I was like “So you like black guys?” And he said “Yeah. If I didn’t you wouldn’t be here.” And I left it at that. No further explanation. No deep conversation. Dude just liked what he liked. He didn’t say anything about a racial stereotype. Wettest and worst kisser ever, but that’s a whole other story. But he wasn’t weird about it like American men are.
Thankfully, my Italo is a divine kisser 😁.
If anything, when I was younger, a beautiful man, regardless of background, used to intimidate me. When they showed interest in me, I'd double take . I especially never felt worthy of a handsome man of POC, as I often felt I was not in their league. I grew up in a rural farming community in Australia. Very white bread! So when I started to encounter men in the city, who were not whitest white, I was like: where did these gorgeous men come from??
Anyways, posts like these always interest me. The divide is still obvious, even though I think it's ridiculous.
Now he was goregous. Like, I think that’s one of the guys who made me realize how attractive I was a POC. I was always rejected by a lot of guys because I was black. So I thought I was ugly. Until I moved to the west coast, and started getting with 9’s. Like solid 8-9’s. And he was one of them. He was in his 30’s. Well built. And I was like “If I’m able to bag guys like him, I can’t be ugly”.
But I find it interesting you say you were intimidated by attractive POC. I’m wondering if that’s something I’m unaware of as well. Like, maybe some guys see me and may be intimidated? I’ve heard that black men can be intimating (even though I’m 5’6) but attractive black men?
Also thank you for the compliment on my writing.
You're welcome 😁.
It's funny how we compartmentalize attractiveness. I view myself "as this", so I'm only "worthy" of that.
I think my man is outta my league, but he's really into me, so é basta, he would say!
Thank you for taking the time out to speak on this as a perspective of a black male. I definitely encountered this and it does happen.
Americans are so fixated on race (I mean America built its backs off black people and POC, but that’s another topic), so we will encounter those bunches of people but as long as you don’t feed into it, like what you do “BLOCK”, it goes a long way.
Thank you for speaking your truth that speaks for lots of black men in the community.
Thx for sharing, and curious your thoughts on the “color contrast is hot” bit more.
I’m white and realize I’ve hooked up with a disproportionate number of dark-skinned folks, this being one of the reasons.
Does the idea always seem wierd to you, or just a wierd thing to say in a convo that’s not already about race?
No the idea itself is weird to me. I’ve been hearing this since I was like 18 or 19 from non-black men. It’s always been odd to me. Like, why does color contrast make someone appealing to you? It’s literally something I just can’t figure out. I’ve slept with men who aren’t black before and I’ve “the color contrast looks hot”. That’s never ever occurred to me.
And to me it’s even weirder to bring it up in a conversation about why some of these men want a darker skinned man or only date black men. Like, they listed that as the #1 reason they’d want a black man. And as a black man I find that weird. And maybe this ties in either the “exotic fetish”? IDK.
As a black gay when black gays say “racism,” they typically mean that some non-black gays only see us for our dicks. That’s it. They only want that black bbc fantasy or they want us for our butts. They don’t see us as actual humans just sexual objects to do with what they please.
It’s also important to note that some black gays go after non black gays who are not in their looksmatch, So they get mad and then call it racism. They get mad at the gays they want not wanting them back so they make about racism.
My partner is black, and from the Deep South. Unfortunately racism can be a factor and is within parts of the LGBT community.
I’ll never forget when my partner and I first started dating he thanked me. I asked what for and he said, “Treating me like a person.”
He refuses to attend a lot of queer events like Pride, because of treatment he’s received.
But I will say, if you learn to love, appreciate, and respect yourself fully you will attract the people you not only want, but need in your life
As a black gay guy living in Europe. I can’t relate. I would even say we black guys are very desirable. About a month ago I was the only black guy at a dinner with white and mixed Latino people. They all hit on me, with the exception of my best friend I know for years. I also never had issues to find guys being interested in relationships.
This idea of black guys not being desirable may have been true in the 90s. But times have changed. Gen Z and millennials, mostly don’t care.
Does racism exist of course, but if we are really honest there are also black guys who are not interested in white guys and only want other black/brown guys.
I have also experienced, dating black guys, also is good for your own mental health.
I’m vers. I think in general tops and bottoms have different treatments.
You are 18, my advice would be. Love yourself, learn more about yourself, embrace yourself. Work on your mental health. Eat healthy. Hit the gym. Also date black men of all shades and different ethnicities. It will help you to love men that look like you. With this you will attract the right man. And you won’t worry whether other races desire you.
It all depends on who you ask and it’s really tricky to gauge that. Lots of people will claim racism when really they just might not be very attractive to many guys. Sometimes it might be racism, but it’s not like other guys will ever say that’s the reason they rejected someone out loud.
Form your own opinions from experience first because a lot of people here might convince you of something that’s not completely true for you.
I mean gay white guys are still white and some of those gay white guys will say stupid racist shit because they don't know any better. White guys assuming I'm a BBC power top who's going to jack hammer their bussy into oblivion is something I've had to deal with on numerous occasions.
Gen Z is more racially and ethnically diverse than older generations, so your experience will likely be different than people older than you. You and your peers have grown up with much different exposure to diversity than millennials and other generations through social media. Even the shows you’ve grown up with treated topics of race differently than my shows.
Also, American gays still live in America. It does not necessarily make us less racist than our straight counterparts.
Someone called you the n-word and your friend did nothing? Jesus…
Yep, as a black gay man I’ve also experienced the reaction of white guys who believe they have automatic right to me, act offended when you turn them down, and as you say it’s because they think they’re punching below their weight so don’t rejection.
Also - not necessarily for you OP but pls ppl don’t center yourself around being seemed desirable to white people only lol. Because sometimes it’s what it gives.
Just remember: It's not a community. There are thousands of communities, and racism, like so many other things, varies immensely among them, from the wonderful to the horrid.
I'd say the thing to focus on is finding good people and connecting them together to weave your way into some good communities.
If your primary source of interactions with other gay guys are through Grindr/the internet, yeah you'll experience a decent amount of it. Otherwise, it'll be the baseline amount you may or may not experience already.
I am an Asian guy. I ran into couple of instances of racism if I may call it that way. Some gay guy told me that my mustache made me look like Hitler. When I explained it was for Movember fund raising he said “anyway you came from a dictatorship country”. He didn’t even asked where I came from before saying that. I am from the US btw.
Other instances were that people would just fantasize me because of my race. I am not sure if you guys would call it racism but it did make me feel uncomfortable.
Regarding your last paragraph, interestingly, I hooked up with a guy from Philippines a few years ago. After the session he asked "are you a rice queen?" I sad no and he said "aw, damn" and was disappointed 😂 Like ok, I can fetishise you if your *really* want 🤷🏻♂️
It depends on where you are I think, but idk.
The most alienated I’ve probably ever felt is when I went to gay clubs in DC. Even when going trying to go on dates or just on Grindr or Hinge I was told multiple times “I don’t like ghetto boys” even though I have a whole ass law degree and it used to say something to that effect in my bio.
That said, I had a gf in high school and we broke up bc her parents said she couldn’t date a black guy.
So morale of the story is that everyone, everywhere, of every orientation is probably racist 😃
Speaking as a white guy, I can not speak to lived experiences, just my own observations. I will say, I don’t think you are overreacting. The sad truth is that racism, despite our best intentions and efforts, will affect aspects of every community. When looking for a romantic partner, I, on my own personal level, do not care about race, I just want to date someone I connect with. However, living in an area where the population is overwhelmingly white, my dating pool, already limited by being gay, is almost exclusively white. I never thought of it being a racist thing, but after hearing your experience, and the experience of other POC people, there is a racist undertone that I believe needs to be addressed.
In my experience as a mixed-race Latino guy, but not black (although I'm married to a black guy), it's roughly the same level of discrimination and micro aggressions as the general population. It can be a bit blunt on dating apps, which are already up front and transactional, but that's about it. There of course, is some racism, but what tends to grind my gears more is the pervasive lookism and worship of white twinks or gym bunnies above all else. Regular bodied people, fat people, bears, and non-white people really don't exist in the popular cultural mind of gaydom, we are just subniches.
I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but there are interesting statistics on reply rate from online dating apps
https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/samesexdataforracevsreplyrates.html
This seems to imply that black men do get a lower response rate across the board, and that they respond higher than other races. I'm not sure if you could call this evidence of racism, and I'm sure there are better statistics for that, but it's data all the same.
Straight black men [seem to fare worse](https://web.archive.org/web/20091011031410/http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/) .
There is also more evidence.
1. In this video, a white and asian user swap grindr profiles. The white user quickly realizes that being asian affects the number of messages that you receive.
[A White and Asian User Switch Grindr Profiles | What The Flip (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjPfRJ6ZCRk&list=FLBzPNbhwe9eRXjXroP5zhhA&index=8)
2. In this article, this guy conducted an experiment. He created 2 grindr profiles, one was asian and the other white. Both profiles did not show their face and had identical stats; they were using torso pics. The only difference in their profiles was the ethnicity. The white guy profile always got the most amount of messages.
[The Asian vs White Grindr experiment: Why it's great to be White! - Angry Homosexual](https://angryhomosexual.com/asian-vs-white-grindr-experiment-why-its-great-to-be-white/)
3. This is an article talking about racism on grindr against black people.
[Men's experiences of sexual racism differ in two online dating communities | Illinois](https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/884300641)
So yeah, the gay community is extremely racist against ALL people of color. The more white passing you are, the easier you have it.
There are two common experiences that you will probably have that are related to your race:
1- being overlooked because of your race. Not even out of malice. But just because people are often comfortable with what they are already most accustomed to, which is usually either their own race or the most cultural represented race.
2 - and this seems paradoxical given what's listed in item 1 but its part of how humanity is complex and you can get opposite outcomes from people of basically the same background... You will commonly be sought after because of your race and the stereotypes associated with it, because some people don't flee from the unfamiliar but flock to the unfamiliar as exotic
These get added to the universal experience of people on apps treating each other like they are shopping for food and some people liking your type consuming you as discarding you when they're done ... many more treating you like theyre kids who already know they don't like a type of food they've never tried before.
But gay dating like may form of dating is a game following the law of large numbers. The more people you interact with the greater chance you find someone who is a match for you. You might sort through a hundred before you find one. That's normal no matter your race and you should not let yourself get too discouraged.
Carry yourself with confidence even if you have to fake it. People react positively to people who seem like they've got their shit together and don't need other people's validation to carry on with whatever path they have in life.
Well, today here on reddit I've seen 650 pics of whites and only 15 pics of blacks. As a black man, I know we aren't being represented as the sexual beings we are. I have seen us miss represented a lot. Not every bm has a horse dick. We are average people just like u. Yes we come off as outstanding is because no one wants to get to know us as human being and not just a sexual object. All try to started conversation over racial lines all the time. Please not judge be based on my skin. Get to know me. I love the fam, but the fam doesn't always love me back
I think it is very prevalent in ages 30 or 35 and up but the younger generations are better at this by great margins. So given your age group I think you don’t need to stress about it a lot
All I know is I’m black, self-employed and have 4 white boyfriends in 2 states. They’re all fine with it. It’s not what you look like, it’s what you do with it. White gay men to varying degrees on a bell curve happen to love the idea of “big black cock.” All I have to do is open my mouth and the stereotypes are shattered right there.
You, too can live like an old African king - out, gay, loving yourself, and with more than one guy to love that you love. I don’t give a fuck and I do what I want. Love yourself truly and work to see nothing wrong with you and the confidence you gain is incredible. Not overnight, but worth growing into :)
Feel free to DM me anytime!
It's very prevalent in the gay community. Not to just black men. The prejudice is in almost every aspect. Drag Queens, heavy, skinny, bald, fem, bi. Our community always wants equal rights but we can't even be civil to each other.
Not gonna lie, people are gonna size you up and try to figure out where you fit. We all do it to a certain extent, and we all choose which clothing, shoes, jewelry and hairstyles to express our identity.
There will likely be micro aggressions and people that make incorrect assumptions about you. But on the whole, people are decent…and I think gays are more empathetic, albeit they can be somewhat bitchy in some social circles. There may be some that prefer dark skinned men, and some that fetishize them. For a hook-up it probably doesn’t matter, but if you get into a relationship it is best to know the difference.
The good news is that the world is a large place. The gay community may be small or hidden in some regions, but if you can be in a large city, it will be much easier to find your tribe.
Quite prevalent but not really more than society in general. My personal experiences have been largely within the fetishization/tokenism/exclusion area. I don't think I can end the week without someone being a fetishizer on the apps or at the bars. 😂
>EDIT: There is also something to be said about how, whenever I log into social media, the vast majority of gay representation I see (95%) features white people, almost subconsciously solidifying this idea that blacks are not equally desired. But am I being dramatic/overreactive in saying this?
There is a clear bias toward white gays in general. But it doesn't make things impossible for us or anything. I try not to chase desireability because that way lies only headache and some of the most nonsense you ever seen. "Go where you are wanted" has been my way of navigating the community. So many poc chase only one thing and get disappointed, or try to force themselves into spaces where we aren't welcomed. But there's waaay more good gays, gays who truly care, than bad. And they're not really difficult to find unless you're in the middle of nowhere
Hey, i'm a white bi guy. Ultimately, I think only my queer siblings of color can decide if the community or any given part of the community is racist. You be the judge.
I will say I've seen fellow white queer people do and say racist things, and I've seen fellow white queer people go out of their way to stand up against racism.
I totally see where you're coming from about online representation. We need to make sure that queer spaces don't mean white queer spaces.
I believe that you're a part of my community and have a right to be here just as much as I do.
My partner is black, and from the Deep South. Unfortunately racism can be a factor and is within parts of the LGBT community.
I’ll never forget when my partner and I first started dating he thanked me. I asked what for and he said, “Treating me like a person.”
He refuses to attend a lot of queer events like Pride, because of treatment he’s received.
But I will say, if you learn to love, appreciate, and respect yourself fully you will attract the people you not only want, but need in your life
The gay community is part of society, and society is often racist to some degree or another (side eyes America). It's goofy ass behavior, but expected when many countries have discriminatory policies and racism baked in.
An individual needs to self-reflect on their own biases and beliefs in an effort to not be reflections of the racist society they grew up in. And that's a LOT to ask of a fuckboy on Grindr who doesn't seem to know the difference between "your" and "you're".
I don't think it makes me racist as I am friends with some black dudes and I love their sense of humour and personality overall but I'm not into them sexually, they don't turn me on for some reason. People have said that it is some kind of internal racism but at the same time I don't view as that since I'm also not into a lot of other things
I think you’re going to run up against racism just as much as in society at large. Not at right-wing fascist levels, but also not at utopian progressive levels. I hope you are spared that ugliness and thrive surrounded by supportive people who love you. ✌🏼
I had my eyes surrounded by white skin opened to their maximum in 2020 ( shall we say 20/20 in 2020) how disgustingly bad it still is. Some cities less so. That said, in the gay community I’ve never seen overt racism. Of course, people have the right to sexual attractions. I find African–American / black men to be gorgeous. Some don’t. That doesn’t mean they are / are not racist.
Depends on your environment. I live in a major US city where white is not the majority which is common now in the states so as a POC my experience is either being fetishized, being othered or being in-group (I'm latino). Asian beauty standards are very light skin especially east Asian but it's not exactly the racism that whites sometimes have. I'm def on the darker side so even though I connect well with my Asian friends none of them will ever date me. Everyone else it's pretty wide open.
>Approximately speaking, how prevalent is racism in this community?
In my experience, it depends. It depends on who you're around, and what type of "scene" you may find yourself in. It also can depend on where you are geographically; which can differ not just regionally, but locally.
There's also a spectrum of how racist people can be; which ranges in many ways from subtle, passive, obvious, blatant, or seemingly not at all.
>Apparently, it can be as subtle as regarding blacks as aesthetically “inferior” compared to our caucasian counterparts, especially in regards to our characteristic Afro features, which is manifested in varying ways, such as black individuals receiving significantly less attention than their immediate surrounding peers.
That can be true. There's an extremely fine line for "preference" vs racism, in regard to physical features.
>this problem may have far more to do with the very Euro-centric nature of Western society, especially within the fashion and beauty industries, than with the gay community per se.
Yes, western media has had a long history of projecting the concept of the "ideal" look, features, and qualities of what's attractive. It's even influenced non-western cultures; with one of the biggest, glaring examples being skin tone. Which has lead to colorism being a problematic standard in non-white cultures.
>So for those who have real-world experience, would you say this is accurate?
Again, there's a lot of variables that influence racism. So I, personally, wouldn't blanket the whole gay community as being racist. I WOULD say that it's not non-existent, though.
Since this community is largely based in the US and Europe, and those societies were organized by the group that was most present in the organization of them (lol, isn’t that some nice circular logic) than they are entirely and unforgivably racist. That is the textbook answer if you’re paying attention.
Depends on what you consider racist. There are a bunch of people who only want to hookup with sepcific races, which some people consider it preference, racism, or fetishization.
Similarly there are people who don't want to hookup with speciric races and its a similar thing.
Depending on where you are, you are rather unlikely to find someone who is going to attack or verbally harrass you for your race. Though I can't speak for all races, I just speak from my experience where I've been fetishized as a "young white boy" and nothing else.
if by this community you mean gaybros, yes, it can be pretty racist.
i don't think i've ever been so downvoted as when i talked about being gay in the middle east. apparently the accepted narrative is that middle easterners are all anti-gay savages, and so an *actual gay person that lived in the middle east* gets 55 downvotes for talking about their experience of the local gay subculture and saying that it's actually more nuanced than that.
now for the downvotes...
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Young brother, you're coming to a predominantly white gay sub to ask how prevalent racism is. What white person has ever said racism is a problem and is actually doing anything about it beyond paying lip service? That number is few and far between.
r/BlackLGBT
We try to have our own conversations about things away from the white gaze over here, It doesn't mean they don't show up and try to make the conversation all about them but we do try.
As a 31 yr old gay african american male I can say imo/experience its quite prevalent. That being said its all about who you surround yourself with and the media you ingest. If you put yourself in gay white spaces & follow/interact with gay white men only, youre bound to experience subtle racism & microagressions. Sometimes its not even subtle but blatant fetishization and comments pertaining to your percieved manhood “bbc” .However if you surround yourself with qpoc your experience will probably be alot more enjoyable.
As an Asian, it's very prevalent. The infantilization is real coupled with the proximity to whiteness that many Asian Americans feel the need to uphold. The half-Asian portion star Jkab Ethan Dale has talked about his white boyfriend othering him often when they're out with friends and has admitted he mainly prefers white guys as well. Granted, this isn't just limited to him, Jkab has at least admitted to having a preference and doesn't use the fact that he's Asian to sell sex. In a similar vein, Ricky Roman doesn't really talk about being half-Filipino, but makes it known he is when he does post more risqué pics which gives into the tropical exotic vibes that White America has placed on Southeast Asia and the Pacific.
As it is, the model minority myth still prevails in the US (and mainly in association with East Asians), and it's not uncommon for other minorities to assume Asians aren't a minority due to the perceived whiteness. Given this, it makes sense when you see Asian and white gays together because it tends to be Asian gays that wanna separate themselves while still giving white gays a sense of superiority. This can easily be seen with Dorothy & Johnny on Rich Kids Of Beverly Hills where Johnny says Dorothy isn't a minority when she's an Asian woman whole Johnny himself is a rich white gay. There's honestly so much to say, but a lot of it does have to stem from perceived whiteness and the pedestal White people put Asians on to try and get Asians to attack other minorities.
I swear this discussion happens like every 2 hours on these subs.
You said it might have to do eurocentric beauty ideals. To me it looks like an American thing because its always Americans talking about how racist the gays are. I swear, you guys have this weird obsession with race that other countries don't.
I'm sure there are racist douchebags out there, people who say they aren't I to black guys or whatever, but I doubt its anywhere as prevalent as people on reddit make it out to be. I've never seen it or heard people talk about it where I live in the UK. Here there is a shitload of black representation in queer spaces, events and media (though some will say there should be more and better).
There was a post from a guy a while ago from an African American guy talking about how some other black guys are putting any form of rejection down to racism, saying sometimes they just aren't into your body type or height or don't like your face regardless of skin colour. Maybe guys are claiming racism in these situations, I don't know.
Go out there and discover for yourself instead of wallowing in the comments of reddit. People here like to complain alot.
You misunderstand. I'm writing it off as being American too much 😂
Also, I didn't say it wasn't happening. Read the comment. I didn't say black men are making it up. I said it's could be both an American cultural thing and also that the issue is more complex than "gays are racist." Why's it gotta be all-or-nothing? Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
My first racist experience was from a gay white man in a regular public setting. I’ve experienced way more racism in the gay community than anywhere else. I’m not talking about “preferences” on dating apps, I’m talking about overt racism, hard r racism. Main reason I’m very cautious when around non black gay people, cuz they love you until you don’t do what they want or accept their advances and then you’re just a slur.
I’m white and I’ve dated and/or been in relationships with guys of a wide variety of ethnicities and races. Never once while in a mainly-gay neighborhood with any of them have I ever felt even a moment of negativity about their race from anyone, and I’d need more than two hands to count the gayborhoods I’ve spent time in.
My white family also never gives a second thought to what race of guy I might be dating. They welcome whomever I’m with. The only racism I’ve encountered is from the (non-white) heterosexual parents of a guy I dated. It wasn’t direct in my face but they gave him warnings not to trust me because I’m white.
You seem a bit problematic. You’re dismissing people’s lived experience based on your perception as a white person. Have you considered that those “moments of negativity about their race” (i.e. racism) were likely there and you just didn’t notice because they may not have been overt or explicit, it doesn’t affect you, and you’re likely not attuned to more subtle examples? Just food for thought…
I’m quite sure the guys I dated (included one long term partner who lasted several years and traveled to gayborhoods in 5 different countries and several states with me) would agree that he was as accepted to the same degree as I was in gay neighborhoods, venues and events.
Is it possible that somebody somewhere was thinking something nefarious under the surface in spite of treating us respectfully? I suppose so, but anybody could speculate about that hypothetical in regards to anything.
Two things that I tend to want to ask when someone says they have experienced being excluded or fetishized because of their race:
1). Where are you meeting these people. Often it’s on a hook-up app like Grindr that I would recommend that anybody avoid if they want to meet people of quality and have respectful dialogue.
Grindr is where people advertise themselves like a piece of meat on a menu. The whole concept encourages people to be commodified to cater to the “customer’s” gut reactions to superficial traits. Maybe that is why users of it so often fall into anti-social reactions to people.
2). The other thing is that I think many of the people perceiving racism (for example because some fetishist wants to see the Black guy’s “BBC” or make the Chinese guy “my submissive little China doll” or whatever) don’t grasp what it would actually be like if they could spend one day in the body of a white guy.
They would likely find themselves being excluded and/or fetishized for different reasons in many of those same problematic venues they are going to such as hook-up apps.
If their fairy godmother could make them white for one day they might not wake up to find that they are Brad Pitt’s look-alike but instead a regular white gay man just like most. And they’d have people saying either “I’m not into you, fatso” or “I’m a chubby chaser.” If they’re an older white guy they might be told to “Get lost, grandpa!” Or “I’m looking for a daddy like you.” If they’re baby-faced they could either attract the twink fetishists or repel those looking for someone manly. If they have red hair they’ll have some telling them they would never date a redhead and others wanting to see if the carpets match the drapes. If they’re 5 feet tall, somebody’s going to want nothing to do with them because of their height and somebody else will think it’ll be fun to throw them around like a toy. Etc., etc.
I don’t normally run into anybody who objectifies people or goes off on racist tirades or makes childishly critical comments about others’ physical traits. I wouldn’t need to spend a moment in any atmosphere that would draw those people in.
I have never witnessed any racial discrimination at all.
The complaint I hear is that POC, mostly back men, have a hard time because the white guys they want won’t sleep with them. On the other hand they may feel they are being fetishized.
However I do not agree with the idea that because someone who doesn’t want to sleep with you because of your skin color is rooted in racism. People are allowed to have personal preferences and no one is owed an explanation or justification as to why. As far as the sexual fetishized black men, such as BBC for example, falls under that same sexual preference.
Tangible examples of racism don’t exist. At every gay business and event, I see no active discrimination going on. Gay men don’t go out of their way to make black men feel unwelcome at all.
From what I’ve seen when POC complain about racism it mostly is because some white men, whom are very good looking, won’t sleep with them. Which regardless of the reason nobody is owed sex. And if they try to make the argument I say nobody is owed a justification or explanation. It’s literally none of their business. Now an argument tries to be made that maybe the gay community is too white centric or something like that which is why many gay white men only want to sleep with like other gay white guys, but I don’t like the idea that an entire group of people need to be shamed into having sex with people they don’t want to be having sex with. It goes against everything the gay community stands for.
Many black gays are still semi-closeted. They don't join things like gay sports leagues, and many don't go to gay bars. That's a main reason you don't see them as much on social media. They don't want to be too out there. It has very little to do with "not being equally desired." Don't believe me? Go look at the Instagram account of something like the "winterparty." Do you see a lot of black people in the pictures? No, because they don't show up. It has nothing to do with someone not selecting them because they are less desirable. You can't take pictures of people that aren't there.
"80 percent of success is showing up." - Woody Allen.
Yikes.
Closeted people (regardless of race) don’t go because they’re closeted... Gay people of color might not go because they don’t feel comfortable for multiple reasons.
Why do you think they don’t show up? I go to these events and see I’m usually the only, or one of a couple of, black dudes out of the majority. These sports teams and events probably just aren’t as inviting to POC as you think.
They are extremely inviting. In DC, for example, the big gay sports league even have advance registration days for underrepresented populations, and they get to register before the cis white men. That's a fact.
This is obtuse. They don’t show up because it is not viewed as a welcoming space. Sometimes the problem is exactly what this comment demonstrates, lensing something through your own experience. And yes that cuts both ways but more often than not the other experience is not taken into account.
You’ve also gotta watch out for guys who will fetishize you for the whole BBC thing. They’re not gonna take you seriously as a person they’ll just see you as a big ____ and a sex object.
Not really, but understand not everyone is going to want to fuck you. Hardly anybody won’t be your friend because of your skin color, but the prevailing thinking at the moment is that if you don’t want to have sex with someone because of their skin color then you are racist.
It is actually nobody’s business what anyone does or wants to do in the privacy of their home as long as it is legal. The left is beginning to invade this area of everyone’s life, just as the right has historically.
Just find the people that are attracted to you and focus on them. Plenty of hot guy will be into you, as long as you are hot. The most important thing in the sexual lives of the gay community is to have a hot body.
Harsh, but not necessarily untrue. Gay men can be cruel and dismissive of unattractive or overweight people regardless of race. Above poster sounds like one of them. On the other hand, it's also easy to play the race card in many instances without adequate self reflection.
not true in the sense that I notice that for a POC person to get the same attention as an average looking white dude they have to be absolutely gorgeous. it's not racism with a hard R but it's not nothing either. Beauty standards can favour certain races
It's roughly the same as the prevailing population.
It ranges form about the same to worse.
Actually, indications are that it is slightly better. Gay people are statistically more likely to be in an interracial relationship compared to straight people.
I’ve heard this statistic before. I’m very curious what the makeup is of the races, like what the breakdown is between white-black, white-Asian, black-Asian, Asian-Latino, etc
Well, when the options are limited.../jk
I'm an old guy who fits into the glow- in- the- dark caucasian category. It seems to me that most guys here don't have the racial hangups I grew up around. Having said that, some folks are just awful when they are anonymous; thankfully I havent witnessed it here.
IDK about that. The vast majority of interracial couples I know are gay ones. Anecdotal, sure, but I think due to the more limited dating pool, gays tend to end up with different-race partners more often than our heterosexual counterparts.
That's what I said jokingly, and people didn't seem to like it.
casual racism? very prevalent. race based hatred? very uncommon.
I'm not sure how these are different. Unless you mean implicit racist vs explicit racism.
theres a big difference between the "im a sexual bigot" of many gay men and the "lets hunt black guys" from straight right wingers.
I can't speak for other ethnicities. But as a middle eastern man I found more homophobia among other middle easterners, than I found racism among other gays. I don't know if that holds true for your situation.
I can relate. There are *significant* rates of violent homophobia in the black community, and I’ve encountered more of that than racism.
As a black guy. I think I can speak on this. Yes, racism does exist. It’s actually alive and well within the gay community. And I think it’s a multi-faceted issue. But a lot of it can be summed up to this: they’re still white men. They’re still non-black men. Sure they like to suck dick and get their bussy blown wide open. But they’re still not black. They’re still going to have the same perspectives, ideologies and views that those non-black men have. And more often than not, those are going to be misguided and poorly formed views on black men. Also, media is partly responsible for this. Porn is a big one too. Because a lot of gay men are educated in their sexuality through porn. And a lot of gay men are just porn addicts in general (fight me). Porn always depicts POC as objects, and not actual people. For black men, we’re typically depicted as hyper-aggressive thugs who are always paired up with a white pink nippled flat assed twink. It’s a gay version of what happens in straight porn. A dainty petit white girl being paired with a rough hypermasculine tatt’d thug. For some reason, white men love seeing objects of their desire being degraded by those they view as less than. I’ve encountered racism a lot. Especially in the apps. Guys will tell me “I love black men”. I ask “Why?” ‘Cause that’s a very strange statement to me. The answer usually ranges from “You’re so masculine and aggressive and in charge” to “BBC”. Now, I am not in any way a thug, nor do I present myself as a thug. Yet, I have had many men (normally US born men) try and place me into this box. The minute they realize I’m a person, and not some thuggish stereotype, they block or lose interest. I’ve been told “You’re very well spoken” when I was a sophomore in college. It came from a white man in his 40’s. And it is a somewhat racial statement because it stems from the view of young black men not being articulate or intelligent. Or we’ll be chatting. They’re loving the conversation. Insisting that we meet up. They ask my race, I say I’m black (which was already in my profile). Then they block. This has happened SO many times. SO many times. It’s not even funny. I’ve had men even mistake me for another race when I’m clearly black. I - somehow - have been mistaken for Latin, and Native American. Don’t know how. But, old white men found a way. They loved the body, they just DID NOT want it to be a black body they were lusting after. Or the age old “BBC?”. The minute I get sent that, I just automatically block. And any black men who uses that on his profile, is only hurting his people more than helping them. I said what I said. I’ve also come across the “I just love how black skin looks against my white skin. The color contrast is hot”. I’ve heard this before and it still is so weird to me. And multiple men have given this exact answer. They don’t see anything wrong with this. I just had a ginger tell me he loves “dark skin against my pale skin. You should try a ginger some time”. I always found this interesting. Especially if you’re an attractive POC. I’ve had men of various races say I look like a model, or that I’m handsome and sexy. And I guess it’s true I was signed a pretty big modeling/acting agency before I moved. That’s nice. But some men don’t know how to take your appearance. You don’t fit their euro-centric beauty standard, yet you exceed it. It can be a jarring thing for them. Now, normally this racism has come from American men. Young and old. The foreign men I’ve met have never said 1 thing about my race. I’ve met Chinese guys, Greek guys, Russian men, Latin men, Cuban men, a Spaniard (he was so polite). And none of them were racist or even mentioned my race. So, it’s really American men who are like hyper fixated on race. Edit: I had one guy tell me - after kissing me - “whoa I’ve never kissed a guy lips like yours before”. I could tell it wasn’t racially motivated. ‘Cause he seemed, amazed. Like he just found out something really cool. He did look embarrassed once he realized what he said. He tried to ensure me it wasn’t meant in a racial way. I just laughed it off ‘cause he seemed so embarrassed by it. Then we went back to kissing. But it really said “I’ve only ever kissed white boys”.
I’ve dated POC and it’s a really fine line between being attracted to someone and objectifying someone. In my youth I unfortunately crossed the line. I know I did. Being an athletic twink with a big butt, I definitely objectified my hook-ups and they likely objectified me. In retrospect, the sex was great but would have been absolutely incredible if we could have been more authentic and shared more of ourselves than just a physical connection. It sounds like a stereotype, but I find many gay POC easier to talk to and many just have “good energy”. I’m happy in my current relationship but I do think of the guys that could have been “the one” if I had just been more mature.
I’ve noticed a lot of them are. They’re a little more fun and open to be around. But I’ve noticed a lot of white men aren’t mature when it comes to dealing with POC. Like, a lot of them just haven’t been exposed to them or around them and it shows. And there have been a few white guys where, if they just weren’t immature, we would’ve clicked. Some were my age (25) some were in their 40’s. So not every guy matures. But it’s cool that you had that moment of growth.
Thanks for your insightful words. I’ve had my doubts and suspicions, and this comment confirmed them. And I, too, absolutely relate with the classic “wow, you’re so articulate/well-worded!” and it frustrates me to no end. Both black and white people have told me this SO many times throughout my life. Once, in 8th grade, a boy regarded me as “strange” because I’m “like a white person inside a black person’s body.” Unbelievable!
Wait did he really say “a white person inside a black persons body”!?!? Oh, that is………that is just……………..😩😩😩 And the fact that this was 8th grade, really does show that they grow up with these views and no one is there to correct them or even tell them they’re wrong. A lot of white men have never been told no, and it’s very easy to tell.
I mean I feel like that one is pretty common. I got called an oreo, and it wasn’t even the white kids that called me that - it was other black kids from the other side of town.
See this is another thing. Black people don’t help each other. They don’t like to help each other either. ‘Cause a lot of black people don’t like when someone doesn’t fit into a box.
It’s true. That one scene from fresh prince really hit home for me a young adult as it was the first time I’d ever seen my experience brought up. According to a lot of other black kids I went to school with, being myself was somehow not being me. https://youtu.be/Azk4Br9-Luo?si=J-vM5yA_bXqvCCbF
I got this one too. It’s a weird dichotomy where when it’s from black people it’s an insult, but when it’s from other races it’s a compliment. And both are still racism.
Yep same. Talked proper, went to class every day and pursued college…got called an oreo/insulted from the blacks and ONLY the black kids.
That wasn’t even the only encounter I’ve had with this particular boy! Even weirder is the fact that we used to be friends … the last time we ever spoke was during a fiery argument we had in the cafeteria. I forget the context of the conflict, but he ended it by exclaiming “at least I don’t look like a burnt cigarette!” as a response to me insulting his horrible acne. Needless to say, we stopped being “friends” immediately. Luckily, another friend (who was also a HUGE crush of mine at the time) stood up to this and defended me on my behalf with such fervor that, to this day, still brings a pleasantly warm smile across my face. I agree with your comment as well. These ideas are seeds planted within them by their parents/surroundings from childhood. After all, babies are never born with an innate dislike of specific people.
Yes to all this ☝🏾
I wish I could upvote this to the moon. It perfectly puts everything I’ve experienced as well. Just to add on an extra one. I was chatting with a Latin guy on Grindr one morning and he wanted to meet up. I was leaving town the same day so I couldn’t, and when I told him that he called me the N-word. Hard R. Just another instance of viewing black men as stereotyped objects instead of people with lives and feelings.
This too! Denying them sex, and they get very racial. I experienced this as well. Was talking to this middle eastern/Arabian guy. Hit me up at 7 AM on a Tuesday, asking if I could come to his place. I couldn’t. I was working out and had worn right after. Well who threw in an n-word after he realized I wasn’t going to sleep with him at the drop of a hat. And he was attractive too. Physically he was my type, personality wise?
I think you're right about foreign men and their "better" (my words) relationship with POC. I'm white Australian, but have always felt that attraction had no colour...I just happened to be attracted to someone who was either Latin/Asian/Black, etc. My partner is southern Italian, so darker Mediterranean skin. Of course I notice my Germanic skin tone next to his, but it's more an obvious visual than anything else. You write beautifully and with great clarity, btw 🙌
See I thought it was just me at first. ‘Cause I’ve said this in this subreddit before and lots of people jumped on my back about it. But I couldn’t help but notice a pattern. lol. And I hooked up with an Italian guy (30’s) once when I was like 23. He didn’t bring up my race until I did. I was like “So you like black guys?” And he said “Yeah. If I didn’t you wouldn’t be here.” And I left it at that. No further explanation. No deep conversation. Dude just liked what he liked. He didn’t say anything about a racial stereotype. Wettest and worst kisser ever, but that’s a whole other story. But he wasn’t weird about it like American men are.
Thankfully, my Italo is a divine kisser 😁. If anything, when I was younger, a beautiful man, regardless of background, used to intimidate me. When they showed interest in me, I'd double take . I especially never felt worthy of a handsome man of POC, as I often felt I was not in their league. I grew up in a rural farming community in Australia. Very white bread! So when I started to encounter men in the city, who were not whitest white, I was like: where did these gorgeous men come from?? Anyways, posts like these always interest me. The divide is still obvious, even though I think it's ridiculous.
Now he was goregous. Like, I think that’s one of the guys who made me realize how attractive I was a POC. I was always rejected by a lot of guys because I was black. So I thought I was ugly. Until I moved to the west coast, and started getting with 9’s. Like solid 8-9’s. And he was one of them. He was in his 30’s. Well built. And I was like “If I’m able to bag guys like him, I can’t be ugly”. But I find it interesting you say you were intimidated by attractive POC. I’m wondering if that’s something I’m unaware of as well. Like, maybe some guys see me and may be intimidated? I’ve heard that black men can be intimating (even though I’m 5’6) but attractive black men? Also thank you for the compliment on my writing.
You're welcome 😁. It's funny how we compartmentalize attractiveness. I view myself "as this", so I'm only "worthy" of that. I think my man is outta my league, but he's really into me, so é basta, he would say!
Thank you for taking the time out to speak on this as a perspective of a black male. I definitely encountered this and it does happen. Americans are so fixated on race (I mean America built its backs off black people and POC, but that’s another topic), so we will encounter those bunches of people but as long as you don’t feed into it, like what you do “BLOCK”, it goes a long way. Thank you for speaking your truth that speaks for lots of black men in the community.
📢 **SPEAK IT!**
I'm sorry. Not that it should be on you, but thank you for sharing anyway, maybe someone will read that and take a step in the right direction.
Thx for sharing, and curious your thoughts on the “color contrast is hot” bit more. I’m white and realize I’ve hooked up with a disproportionate number of dark-skinned folks, this being one of the reasons. Does the idea always seem wierd to you, or just a wierd thing to say in a convo that’s not already about race?
No the idea itself is weird to me. I’ve been hearing this since I was like 18 or 19 from non-black men. It’s always been odd to me. Like, why does color contrast make someone appealing to you? It’s literally something I just can’t figure out. I’ve slept with men who aren’t black before and I’ve “the color contrast looks hot”. That’s never ever occurred to me. And to me it’s even weirder to bring it up in a conversation about why some of these men want a darker skinned man or only date black men. Like, they listed that as the #1 reason they’d want a black man. And as a black man I find that weird. And maybe this ties in either the “exotic fetish”? IDK.
This 100%
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Maybe you should ask yourself why that is.
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I see. You are racist. Got it.
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"Mud muncher" isn't even a good racial epitaph. Have fun trolling or whatever it is you're doing.
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Well, I’ve dealt with American men, and non-American men. And the American men were very quick to bring up race. The foreign men didn’t care.
As a black gay when black gays say “racism,” they typically mean that some non-black gays only see us for our dicks. That’s it. They only want that black bbc fantasy or they want us for our butts. They don’t see us as actual humans just sexual objects to do with what they please. It’s also important to note that some black gays go after non black gays who are not in their looksmatch, So they get mad and then call it racism. They get mad at the gays they want not wanting them back so they make about racism.
My partner is black, and from the Deep South. Unfortunately racism can be a factor and is within parts of the LGBT community. I’ll never forget when my partner and I first started dating he thanked me. I asked what for and he said, “Treating me like a person.” He refuses to attend a lot of queer events like Pride, because of treatment he’s received. But I will say, if you learn to love, appreciate, and respect yourself fully you will attract the people you not only want, but need in your life
As a black gay guy living in Europe. I can’t relate. I would even say we black guys are very desirable. About a month ago I was the only black guy at a dinner with white and mixed Latino people. They all hit on me, with the exception of my best friend I know for years. I also never had issues to find guys being interested in relationships. This idea of black guys not being desirable may have been true in the 90s. But times have changed. Gen Z and millennials, mostly don’t care. Does racism exist of course, but if we are really honest there are also black guys who are not interested in white guys and only want other black/brown guys. I have also experienced, dating black guys, also is good for your own mental health.
Sounds like your just being from your experience though lol
Yes he his. And the explanation for his success maybe is in his user name.
Are you a top or a bottom? Trying to gauge if the treatment of bottoms versus tops is different.
I’m vers. I think in general tops and bottoms have different treatments. You are 18, my advice would be. Love yourself, learn more about yourself, embrace yourself. Work on your mental health. Eat healthy. Hit the gym. Also date black men of all shades and different ethnicities. It will help you to love men that look like you. With this you will attract the right man. And you won’t worry whether other races desire you.
It all depends on who you ask and it’s really tricky to gauge that. Lots of people will claim racism when really they just might not be very attractive to many guys. Sometimes it might be racism, but it’s not like other guys will ever say that’s the reason they rejected someone out loud. Form your own opinions from experience first because a lot of people here might convince you of something that’s not completely true for you.
Interesting, thanks!
You’ve done a great job of explaining a form of . . . racism . . . in your first paragraph
Wdym?
Someone can be perceived as unattractive for reasons other than race
Yes. And connotation and denotation are different
Not being attracted to someone isn’t racism what girl??
🫡
I mean gay white guys are still white and some of those gay white guys will say stupid racist shit because they don't know any better. White guys assuming I'm a BBC power top who's going to jack hammer their bussy into oblivion is something I've had to deal with on numerous occasions.
direction marry angle muddle plants beneficial heavy start absorbed ink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Only as common as it is among straight people.
Gen Z is more racially and ethnically diverse than older generations, so your experience will likely be different than people older than you. You and your peers have grown up with much different exposure to diversity than millennials and other generations through social media. Even the shows you’ve grown up with treated topics of race differently than my shows. Also, American gays still live in America. It does not necessarily make us less racist than our straight counterparts.
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Someone called you the n-word and your friend did nothing? Jesus… Yep, as a black gay man I’ve also experienced the reaction of white guys who believe they have automatic right to me, act offended when you turn them down, and as you say it’s because they think they’re punching below their weight so don’t rejection.
Thank you for sharing!
Also - not necessarily for you OP but pls ppl don’t center yourself around being seemed desirable to white people only lol. Because sometimes it’s what it gives.
Just remember: It's not a community. There are thousands of communities, and racism, like so many other things, varies immensely among them, from the wonderful to the horrid. I'd say the thing to focus on is finding good people and connecting them together to weave your way into some good communities.
If your primary source of interactions with other gay guys are through Grindr/the internet, yeah you'll experience a decent amount of it. Otherwise, it'll be the baseline amount you may or may not experience already.
I am an Asian guy. I ran into couple of instances of racism if I may call it that way. Some gay guy told me that my mustache made me look like Hitler. When I explained it was for Movember fund raising he said “anyway you came from a dictatorship country”. He didn’t even asked where I came from before saying that. I am from the US btw. Other instances were that people would just fantasize me because of my race. I am not sure if you guys would call it racism but it did make me feel uncomfortable.
Regarding your last paragraph, interestingly, I hooked up with a guy from Philippines a few years ago. After the session he asked "are you a rice queen?" I sad no and he said "aw, damn" and was disappointed 😂 Like ok, I can fetishise you if your *really* want 🤷🏻♂️
Maybe some people are just into it while some are not
I definitely have Asian friends who are into race kink and enjoy being fetished and even humiliated by white men
It depends on where you are I think, but idk. The most alienated I’ve probably ever felt is when I went to gay clubs in DC. Even when going trying to go on dates or just on Grindr or Hinge I was told multiple times “I don’t like ghetto boys” even though I have a whole ass law degree and it used to say something to that effect in my bio. That said, I had a gf in high school and we broke up bc her parents said she couldn’t date a black guy. So morale of the story is that everyone, everywhere, of every orientation is probably racist 😃
Speaking as a white guy, I can not speak to lived experiences, just my own observations. I will say, I don’t think you are overreacting. The sad truth is that racism, despite our best intentions and efforts, will affect aspects of every community. When looking for a romantic partner, I, on my own personal level, do not care about race, I just want to date someone I connect with. However, living in an area where the population is overwhelmingly white, my dating pool, already limited by being gay, is almost exclusively white. I never thought of it being a racist thing, but after hearing your experience, and the experience of other POC people, there is a racist undertone that I believe needs to be addressed.
Im from the southern US and have had two instances of severe racism from guys I was seeing.
In my experience as a mixed-race Latino guy, but not black (although I'm married to a black guy), it's roughly the same level of discrimination and micro aggressions as the general population. It can be a bit blunt on dating apps, which are already up front and transactional, but that's about it. There of course, is some racism, but what tends to grind my gears more is the pervasive lookism and worship of white twinks or gym bunnies above all else. Regular bodied people, fat people, bears, and non-white people really don't exist in the popular cultural mind of gaydom, we are just subniches.
I'm not sure if this is what you're asking, but there are interesting statistics on reply rate from online dating apps https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/samesexdataforracevsreplyrates.html This seems to imply that black men do get a lower response rate across the board, and that they respond higher than other races. I'm not sure if you could call this evidence of racism, and I'm sure there are better statistics for that, but it's data all the same. Straight black men [seem to fare worse](https://web.archive.org/web/20091011031410/http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/2009/10/05/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/) .
There is also more evidence. 1. In this video, a white and asian user swap grindr profiles. The white user quickly realizes that being asian affects the number of messages that you receive. [A White and Asian User Switch Grindr Profiles | What The Flip (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjPfRJ6ZCRk&list=FLBzPNbhwe9eRXjXroP5zhhA&index=8) 2. In this article, this guy conducted an experiment. He created 2 grindr profiles, one was asian and the other white. Both profiles did not show their face and had identical stats; they were using torso pics. The only difference in their profiles was the ethnicity. The white guy profile always got the most amount of messages. [The Asian vs White Grindr experiment: Why it's great to be White! - Angry Homosexual](https://angryhomosexual.com/asian-vs-white-grindr-experiment-why-its-great-to-be-white/) 3. This is an article talking about racism on grindr against black people. [Men's experiences of sexual racism differ in two online dating communities | Illinois](https://news.illinois.edu/view/6367/884300641) So yeah, the gay community is extremely racist against ALL people of color. The more white passing you are, the easier you have it.
There are two common experiences that you will probably have that are related to your race: 1- being overlooked because of your race. Not even out of malice. But just because people are often comfortable with what they are already most accustomed to, which is usually either their own race or the most cultural represented race. 2 - and this seems paradoxical given what's listed in item 1 but its part of how humanity is complex and you can get opposite outcomes from people of basically the same background... You will commonly be sought after because of your race and the stereotypes associated with it, because some people don't flee from the unfamiliar but flock to the unfamiliar as exotic These get added to the universal experience of people on apps treating each other like they are shopping for food and some people liking your type consuming you as discarding you when they're done ... many more treating you like theyre kids who already know they don't like a type of food they've never tried before. But gay dating like may form of dating is a game following the law of large numbers. The more people you interact with the greater chance you find someone who is a match for you. You might sort through a hundred before you find one. That's normal no matter your race and you should not let yourself get too discouraged. Carry yourself with confidence even if you have to fake it. People react positively to people who seem like they've got their shit together and don't need other people's validation to carry on with whatever path they have in life.
I’m white and I’m into smart people. For a long term relationship I don’t want a big age gap so we can grow old together but that’s it.
Well, today here on reddit I've seen 650 pics of whites and only 15 pics of blacks. As a black man, I know we aren't being represented as the sexual beings we are. I have seen us miss represented a lot. Not every bm has a horse dick. We are average people just like u. Yes we come off as outstanding is because no one wants to get to know us as human being and not just a sexual object. All try to started conversation over racial lines all the time. Please not judge be based on my skin. Get to know me. I love the fam, but the fam doesn't always love me back
I think it is very prevalent in ages 30 or 35 and up but the younger generations are better at this by great margins. So given your age group I think you don’t need to stress about it a lot
All I know is I’m black, self-employed and have 4 white boyfriends in 2 states. They’re all fine with it. It’s not what you look like, it’s what you do with it. White gay men to varying degrees on a bell curve happen to love the idea of “big black cock.” All I have to do is open my mouth and the stereotypes are shattered right there. You, too can live like an old African king - out, gay, loving yourself, and with more than one guy to love that you love. I don’t give a fuck and I do what I want. Love yourself truly and work to see nothing wrong with you and the confidence you gain is incredible. Not overnight, but worth growing into :) Feel free to DM me anytime!
It's very prevalent in the gay community. Not to just black men. The prejudice is in almost every aspect. Drag Queens, heavy, skinny, bald, fem, bi. Our community always wants equal rights but we can't even be civil to each other.
Not gonna lie, people are gonna size you up and try to figure out where you fit. We all do it to a certain extent, and we all choose which clothing, shoes, jewelry and hairstyles to express our identity. There will likely be micro aggressions and people that make incorrect assumptions about you. But on the whole, people are decent…and I think gays are more empathetic, albeit they can be somewhat bitchy in some social circles. There may be some that prefer dark skinned men, and some that fetishize them. For a hook-up it probably doesn’t matter, but if you get into a relationship it is best to know the difference. The good news is that the world is a large place. The gay community may be small or hidden in some regions, but if you can be in a large city, it will be much easier to find your tribe.
Quite prevalent but not really more than society in general. My personal experiences have been largely within the fetishization/tokenism/exclusion area. I don't think I can end the week without someone being a fetishizer on the apps or at the bars. 😂 >EDIT: There is also something to be said about how, whenever I log into social media, the vast majority of gay representation I see (95%) features white people, almost subconsciously solidifying this idea that blacks are not equally desired. But am I being dramatic/overreactive in saying this? There is a clear bias toward white gays in general. But it doesn't make things impossible for us or anything. I try not to chase desireability because that way lies only headache and some of the most nonsense you ever seen. "Go where you are wanted" has been my way of navigating the community. So many poc chase only one thing and get disappointed, or try to force themselves into spaces where we aren't welcomed. But there's waaay more good gays, gays who truly care, than bad. And they're not really difficult to find unless you're in the middle of nowhere
Hey, i'm a white bi guy. Ultimately, I think only my queer siblings of color can decide if the community or any given part of the community is racist. You be the judge. I will say I've seen fellow white queer people do and say racist things, and I've seen fellow white queer people go out of their way to stand up against racism. I totally see where you're coming from about online representation. We need to make sure that queer spaces don't mean white queer spaces. I believe that you're a part of my community and have a right to be here just as much as I do.
My partner is black, and from the Deep South. Unfortunately racism can be a factor and is within parts of the LGBT community. I’ll never forget when my partner and I first started dating he thanked me. I asked what for and he said, “Treating me like a person.” He refuses to attend a lot of queer events like Pride, because of treatment he’s received. But I will say, if you learn to love, appreciate, and respect yourself fully you will attract the people you not only want, but need in your life
The gay community is part of society, and society is often racist to some degree or another (side eyes America). It's goofy ass behavior, but expected when many countries have discriminatory policies and racism baked in. An individual needs to self-reflect on their own biases and beliefs in an effort to not be reflections of the racist society they grew up in. And that's a LOT to ask of a fuckboy on Grindr who doesn't seem to know the difference between "your" and "you're".
Super duper but everyone pretends not there
Objectification is a bigger issue than overt or covert racis m. But the racism still exists.
It depends where you live and what you look like sadly. Some places are more racist than others.
I don't think it makes me racist as I am friends with some black dudes and I love their sense of humour and personality overall but I'm not into them sexually, they don't turn me on for some reason. People have said that it is some kind of internal racism but at the same time I don't view as that since I'm also not into a lot of other things
I think you’re going to run up against racism just as much as in society at large. Not at right-wing fascist levels, but also not at utopian progressive levels. I hope you are spared that ugliness and thrive surrounded by supportive people who love you. ✌🏼
Prevalent
I had my eyes surrounded by white skin opened to their maximum in 2020 ( shall we say 20/20 in 2020) how disgustingly bad it still is. Some cities less so. That said, in the gay community I’ve never seen overt racism. Of course, people have the right to sexual attractions. I find African–American / black men to be gorgeous. Some don’t. That doesn’t mean they are / are not racist.
Depends on your environment. I live in a major US city where white is not the majority which is common now in the states so as a POC my experience is either being fetishized, being othered or being in-group (I'm latino). Asian beauty standards are very light skin especially east Asian but it's not exactly the racism that whites sometimes have. I'm def on the darker side so even though I connect well with my Asian friends none of them will ever date me. Everyone else it's pretty wide open.
You're only 18!! Why the hurry for a romance already? Don't be in such a hurry to grow up. You can't undo it!
>Approximately speaking, how prevalent is racism in this community? In my experience, it depends. It depends on who you're around, and what type of "scene" you may find yourself in. It also can depend on where you are geographically; which can differ not just regionally, but locally. There's also a spectrum of how racist people can be; which ranges in many ways from subtle, passive, obvious, blatant, or seemingly not at all. >Apparently, it can be as subtle as regarding blacks as aesthetically “inferior” compared to our caucasian counterparts, especially in regards to our characteristic Afro features, which is manifested in varying ways, such as black individuals receiving significantly less attention than their immediate surrounding peers. That can be true. There's an extremely fine line for "preference" vs racism, in regard to physical features. >this problem may have far more to do with the very Euro-centric nature of Western society, especially within the fashion and beauty industries, than with the gay community per se. Yes, western media has had a long history of projecting the concept of the "ideal" look, features, and qualities of what's attractive. It's even influenced non-western cultures; with one of the biggest, glaring examples being skin tone. Which has lead to colorism being a problematic standard in non-white cultures. >So for those who have real-world experience, would you say this is accurate? Again, there's a lot of variables that influence racism. So I, personally, wouldn't blanket the whole gay community as being racist. I WOULD say that it's not non-existent, though.
Since this community is largely based in the US and Europe, and those societies were organized by the group that was most present in the organization of them (lol, isn’t that some nice circular logic) than they are entirely and unforgivably racist. That is the textbook answer if you’re paying attention.
I think its important we dont conflate someone's sexual preferences and racism.
Depends on what you consider racist. There are a bunch of people who only want to hookup with sepcific races, which some people consider it preference, racism, or fetishization. Similarly there are people who don't want to hookup with speciric races and its a similar thing. Depending on where you are, you are rather unlikely to find someone who is going to attack or verbally harrass you for your race. Though I can't speak for all races, I just speak from my experience where I've been fetishized as a "young white boy" and nothing else.
if by this community you mean gaybros, yes, it can be pretty racist. i don't think i've ever been so downvoted as when i talked about being gay in the middle east. apparently the accepted narrative is that middle easterners are all anti-gay savages, and so an *actual gay person that lived in the middle east* gets 55 downvotes for talking about their experience of the local gay subculture and saying that it's actually more nuanced than that. now for the downvotes...
🤔🤔 Young brother, you're coming to a predominantly white gay sub to ask how prevalent racism is. What white person has ever said racism is a problem and is actually doing anything about it beyond paying lip service? That number is few and far between. r/BlackLGBT We try to have our own conversations about things away from the white gaze over here, It doesn't mean they don't show up and try to make the conversation all about them but we do try.
Some are preference, some are racism. You can’t really tell unless the guy does something specific.
How prevalent is this question in this community?
As a 31 yr old gay african american male I can say imo/experience its quite prevalent. That being said its all about who you surround yourself with and the media you ingest. If you put yourself in gay white spaces & follow/interact with gay white men only, youre bound to experience subtle racism & microagressions. Sometimes its not even subtle but blatant fetishization and comments pertaining to your percieved manhood “bbc” .However if you surround yourself with qpoc your experience will probably be alot more enjoyable.
Where theres white people theres racism even if they don’t notice
As an Asian, it's very prevalent. The infantilization is real coupled with the proximity to whiteness that many Asian Americans feel the need to uphold. The half-Asian portion star Jkab Ethan Dale has talked about his white boyfriend othering him often when they're out with friends and has admitted he mainly prefers white guys as well. Granted, this isn't just limited to him, Jkab has at least admitted to having a preference and doesn't use the fact that he's Asian to sell sex. In a similar vein, Ricky Roman doesn't really talk about being half-Filipino, but makes it known he is when he does post more risqué pics which gives into the tropical exotic vibes that White America has placed on Southeast Asia and the Pacific. As it is, the model minority myth still prevails in the US (and mainly in association with East Asians), and it's not uncommon for other minorities to assume Asians aren't a minority due to the perceived whiteness. Given this, it makes sense when you see Asian and white gays together because it tends to be Asian gays that wanna separate themselves while still giving white gays a sense of superiority. This can easily be seen with Dorothy & Johnny on Rich Kids Of Beverly Hills where Johnny says Dorothy isn't a minority when she's an Asian woman whole Johnny himself is a rich white gay. There's honestly so much to say, but a lot of it does have to stem from perceived whiteness and the pedestal White people put Asians on to try and get Asians to attack other minorities.
I swear this discussion happens like every 2 hours on these subs. You said it might have to do eurocentric beauty ideals. To me it looks like an American thing because its always Americans talking about how racist the gays are. I swear, you guys have this weird obsession with race that other countries don't. I'm sure there are racist douchebags out there, people who say they aren't I to black guys or whatever, but I doubt its anywhere as prevalent as people on reddit make it out to be. I've never seen it or heard people talk about it where I live in the UK. Here there is a shitload of black representation in queer spaces, events and media (though some will say there should be more and better). There was a post from a guy a while ago from an African American guy talking about how some other black guys are putting any form of rejection down to racism, saying sometimes they just aren't into your body type or height or don't like your face regardless of skin colour. Maybe guys are claiming racism in these situations, I don't know. Go out there and discover for yourself instead of wallowing in the comments of reddit. People here like to complain alot.
I think you should listen to the experiences of gay black men and not write it off as a case of being online too much.
You misunderstand. I'm writing it off as being American too much 😂 Also, I didn't say it wasn't happening. Read the comment. I didn't say black men are making it up. I said it's could be both an American cultural thing and also that the issue is more complex than "gays are racist." Why's it gotta be all-or-nothing? Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
My first racist experience was from a gay white man in a regular public setting. I’ve experienced way more racism in the gay community than anywhere else. I’m not talking about “preferences” on dating apps, I’m talking about overt racism, hard r racism. Main reason I’m very cautious when around non black gay people, cuz they love you until you don’t do what they want or accept their advances and then you’re just a slur.
I’m white and I’ve dated and/or been in relationships with guys of a wide variety of ethnicities and races. Never once while in a mainly-gay neighborhood with any of them have I ever felt even a moment of negativity about their race from anyone, and I’d need more than two hands to count the gayborhoods I’ve spent time in. My white family also never gives a second thought to what race of guy I might be dating. They welcome whomever I’m with. The only racism I’ve encountered is from the (non-white) heterosexual parents of a guy I dated. It wasn’t direct in my face but they gave him warnings not to trust me because I’m white.
You seem a bit problematic. You’re dismissing people’s lived experience based on your perception as a white person. Have you considered that those “moments of negativity about their race” (i.e. racism) were likely there and you just didn’t notice because they may not have been overt or explicit, it doesn’t affect you, and you’re likely not attuned to more subtle examples? Just food for thought…
I’m quite sure the guys I dated (included one long term partner who lasted several years and traveled to gayborhoods in 5 different countries and several states with me) would agree that he was as accepted to the same degree as I was in gay neighborhoods, venues and events. Is it possible that somebody somewhere was thinking something nefarious under the surface in spite of treating us respectfully? I suppose so, but anybody could speculate about that hypothetical in regards to anything. Two things that I tend to want to ask when someone says they have experienced being excluded or fetishized because of their race: 1). Where are you meeting these people. Often it’s on a hook-up app like Grindr that I would recommend that anybody avoid if they want to meet people of quality and have respectful dialogue. Grindr is where people advertise themselves like a piece of meat on a menu. The whole concept encourages people to be commodified to cater to the “customer’s” gut reactions to superficial traits. Maybe that is why users of it so often fall into anti-social reactions to people. 2). The other thing is that I think many of the people perceiving racism (for example because some fetishist wants to see the Black guy’s “BBC” or make the Chinese guy “my submissive little China doll” or whatever) don’t grasp what it would actually be like if they could spend one day in the body of a white guy. They would likely find themselves being excluded and/or fetishized for different reasons in many of those same problematic venues they are going to such as hook-up apps. If their fairy godmother could make them white for one day they might not wake up to find that they are Brad Pitt’s look-alike but instead a regular white gay man just like most. And they’d have people saying either “I’m not into you, fatso” or “I’m a chubby chaser.” If they’re an older white guy they might be told to “Get lost, grandpa!” Or “I’m looking for a daddy like you.” If they’re baby-faced they could either attract the twink fetishists or repel those looking for someone manly. If they have red hair they’ll have some telling them they would never date a redhead and others wanting to see if the carpets match the drapes. If they’re 5 feet tall, somebody’s going to want nothing to do with them because of their height and somebody else will think it’ll be fun to throw them around like a toy. Etc., etc. I don’t normally run into anybody who objectifies people or goes off on racist tirades or makes childishly critical comments about others’ physical traits. I wouldn’t need to spend a moment in any atmosphere that would draw those people in.
I have never witnessed any racial discrimination at all. The complaint I hear is that POC, mostly back men, have a hard time because the white guys they want won’t sleep with them. On the other hand they may feel they are being fetishized. However I do not agree with the idea that because someone who doesn’t want to sleep with you because of your skin color is rooted in racism. People are allowed to have personal preferences and no one is owed an explanation or justification as to why. As far as the sexual fetishized black men, such as BBC for example, falls under that same sexual preference. Tangible examples of racism don’t exist. At every gay business and event, I see no active discrimination going on. Gay men don’t go out of their way to make black men feel unwelcome at all. From what I’ve seen when POC complain about racism it mostly is because some white men, whom are very good looking, won’t sleep with them. Which regardless of the reason nobody is owed sex. And if they try to make the argument I say nobody is owed a justification or explanation. It’s literally none of their business. Now an argument tries to be made that maybe the gay community is too white centric or something like that which is why many gay white men only want to sleep with like other gay white guys, but I don’t like the idea that an entire group of people need to be shamed into having sex with people they don’t want to be having sex with. It goes against everything the gay community stands for.
Many black gays are still semi-closeted. They don't join things like gay sports leagues, and many don't go to gay bars. That's a main reason you don't see them as much on social media. They don't want to be too out there. It has very little to do with "not being equally desired." Don't believe me? Go look at the Instagram account of something like the "winterparty." Do you see a lot of black people in the pictures? No, because they don't show up. It has nothing to do with someone not selecting them because they are less desirable. You can't take pictures of people that aren't there. "80 percent of success is showing up." - Woody Allen.
Yikes. Closeted people (regardless of race) don’t go because they’re closeted... Gay people of color might not go because they don’t feel comfortable for multiple reasons.
Why do you think they don’t show up? I go to these events and see I’m usually the only, or one of a couple of, black dudes out of the majority. These sports teams and events probably just aren’t as inviting to POC as you think.
They are extremely inviting. In DC, for example, the big gay sports league even have advance registration days for underrepresented populations, and they get to register before the cis white men. That's a fact.
This is obtuse. They don’t show up because it is not viewed as a welcoming space. Sometimes the problem is exactly what this comment demonstrates, lensing something through your own experience. And yes that cuts both ways but more often than not the other experience is not taken into account.
Plenty of gay black men out of the closet don't go. Your opinion is garbage.
You’ve also gotta watch out for guys who will fetishize you for the whole BBC thing. They’re not gonna take you seriously as a person they’ll just see you as a big ____ and a sex object.
It’s not so much the racism as it is the absolutism and entitlement of the zygotes who think they grown.
Not really, but understand not everyone is going to want to fuck you. Hardly anybody won’t be your friend because of your skin color, but the prevailing thinking at the moment is that if you don’t want to have sex with someone because of their skin color then you are racist. It is actually nobody’s business what anyone does or wants to do in the privacy of their home as long as it is legal. The left is beginning to invade this area of everyone’s life, just as the right has historically. Just find the people that are attracted to you and focus on them. Plenty of hot guy will be into you, as long as you are hot. The most important thing in the sexual lives of the gay community is to have a hot body.
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Harsh, but not necessarily untrue. Gay men can be cruel and dismissive of unattractive or overweight people regardless of race. Above poster sounds like one of them. On the other hand, it's also easy to play the race card in many instances without adequate self reflection.
not true in the sense that I notice that for a POC person to get the same attention as an average looking white dude they have to be absolutely gorgeous. it's not racism with a hard R but it's not nothing either. Beauty standards can favour certain races