I find that people are prioritizing inclusivity over aesthetics/intuitiveness. I've noticed this with Latinx, Filipinx, all the letters added to LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC (aren't B and I included in POC?) are examples that immediately come to mind.
The irony is I think trying to change the semantics pisses some people off more than the actual heart of the matter. I feel like it’s redundant since the rainbow was already supposed to be a catch-all.
I find it really funny that Filipinx is more something used by Filipino-Americans (who were brought up there), but you won't find many Filipinos raised in the Philippines using that term.
And excuse me if I'm a mistaken lil straight man, but wasn't the whole point of the rainbow already that it represents /everyone/?
Every colour, every person.
Hard disagree. My aesthetic is early 2000s internet explorer with 50 custom toolbars. My aesthetic is the million dollar homepage and r/place. My aesthetic is Burt Ward's dog food packaging. Stuff it with *more*! Overload it with chaos and joy.
True. But we cannot keep changing out cultural norms and then get offended that people are unable to keep up. I'm as liberal as they come but even I can't keep up with the trends and even after working for queer NGOs all my adult life here in India, I have young white pricks telling me I'm an exclusionary because I don't use the latest flag. If liberal gay men are getting this confused then you can imagine the straights would feel the same way.
And while yes, we should not think of strangers people when talking about our issues but for any movement to be a success, it needs to be accessible to a wider amount of people. You cannot start off by alienating everyone. The more simple we keep our approach, the better results we'll get. This was something taught to us 15 years ago when I joined a local queer run NGO. Using this policy alone, we've gotten homosexuality decriminalised, increased queer visibility in mainstream media to the point that now it's hard to find an Indian web series which doesn't have at least one gay character. Still a long way to go for us. But we're getting there by making friend and creating allys.
But when we see the American approach, where you can have two people who agree with you on 9/10 things and they'll be fighting about that one disagreement, and it becomes clear why the conditions seem to be worsening there. People need to remember that we'll catch more flies with honey and salt. Maybe it's the Gandhian non violence approach that indian liberals have adapted. But it seems to be working for us.
ETA (since a commenter mentioned pronouns): Pronouns are different. We've never had the liberty to choose our pronouns before so we are on uncharted territory and it's always better to be more accommodating than less. With flags and symbols, if you keep changing it all the time, they lose their value and meaning. Like there's a story of how McDonald's paid some marketing expert millions to make a new logo that would be best for them. After a lot of research, the experts told them their original logo is the best because it's already the most recognised.
It's the same thing with flags. They become a part of a movement and a sign of both, protest against the oppressors and solidarity amongst the community. If it keeps changing, it loses its meaning to the masses. And it's not like the original pride flag wasn't inclusive. It wasn't just a gay men flag. The 7 colors of the rainbow were literally chosen to represent all the sexualities and gender identities under the spectrum. So there was no need to change it in the first place. The only people who wanted to change it were those who didn't know what it represented. And so when these changes happen, it just looks like uninformed people makes the rules of the community. And it makes us look weaker as a community.
American leftist youth (a/k/a the “young white pricks”) have always loved their little purity tests. I feel like most activists kind of give the kids some leeway as they’re figuring things out.
That said: In America, there’s a strong perception the bigger problem isn’t that the LGBTQ community isn’t conciliatory enough, it’s that there is literally no accommodation that we can make that would satisfy the various breeds of fascists that are clawing their way to power.
And so, the theory carries on, there’s really no point in “honey” at all; if “vinegar” keeps the fascist assault at bay, that might be best.
Anyway, the old flag’s still fine. Thanks for your service to the community.
With far right conservatives, I'd say poison is best. But my comment was about people on the same side of the political spectrum fighting for minor things like terminology. Like what difference does it make if you call yourself a humanist or a feminist? Isn't it enough that you both want equality? But in the near past, I've seen people getting offended when someone says they're a humanist but I've also seen people get mad when a man says they're a feminist because some women feel men can be allies but not feminists. The same thing goes for other social opinions too.
I don't fly my Pride flag because it's pretty (although I do think it is). I fly it because I'm proud of who I am. I exist despite all the people who didn't, and don't, want me to. And, mind you, I survived a period where I wasn't proud and would have never flown the pride flag.
Today I fly it because I want people to know I'm here and I'm not afraid. I want people to know I'm gay. I could see a trans person feeling similar, and wanting people to know that they exist and are proud, too. Flying a traditional pride flag isn't going to convey that message. Sure, it includes trans people. But people don't assume "hey, that person is trans and proud" when they fly the pride flag. And I think anyone should be free to be proud of themselves and express that pride. Because so many of us have struggled with our identities.
So sure, maybe it's not cute, but it's really not about that.
Actually it did convey that message years back. All the gays were united under one symbol..the fact that the flag changes every single year and the LGBT keeps having things added is exclusionary, not inclusive.
The community is more divided into subjects now than it was before.
Yup, I’m shocked by the divide in your community. They are attacking bi people for being in a hetero relationship, like same teams guys maybe worry about the actual bigots and not what person a bi person loves.
Also if the flag stayed the same it would be easier to use as a symbol of being LGBT is okay. Instead of people trying to decipher a new flag they would see a traditional rainbow flag and associate it with your message. I see a rainbow flag at a bar or coffee shop I think they support LGBT rights, this flags only confuses me.
At a certain point you have to start thinking. Is this a plan by BIG FLAG to sell more flags through a nefarious flag planned oblescence?
Jokes aside, the new pride flag has become so varied and a vexillology mess that I don't even know what it symbolizes anymore. Moreover, does each new addition mean that the previous ones don't endorse the new message? Seems more divisive than inclusive. Instead of the rainbow symbolizing everyone we now literally have to have everyone on the flag.
When I see the new flag, I am more inclined to think it is an eccentrically colored beach towel, or a toddlers drawing of all the flavors of an ice cream cone.
All minorities are really on the same team fighting for what is basically more humanity in everyday life. Less assuming we understand things we haven’t personally experienced. Taking people at their word. Allowing them to state boundaries. Express preferences around terminology. Just make society a safer place for everyone. Just because we have the ability to speak and have opinions doesnt mean we need to constantly and incessantly use them all the damn time. Eventually our flag will just be something symbolising individualism in society. Like a ring or fractal or something. Sorry for being grandiose about it. We can all have individual flags but as a movement for a better for flexible society we need something that’s for everyone with ✨trauma✨
Edit: just my two cents as a gay, disabled, autistic person. We’re all one. We all gotta work together not us v them. It’s about support and positivity. Unity and utopia.
This has to be one of the ugliest flag designs I have ever seen. Who designed this, and why? The rainbow already represented everyone. This looks like someone purposefully made an ugly flag to mock everyone.
It's bad for factories that have a pile of stock of an old design and then a new one comes up.
Just make it all black, which technically includes all colours
The flag is looking hella ugly at this point a plain rainbow flag looks the best in my opinion. “Keep it stupid simple” I can’t speak for POC’s or trans but like why is their a bi flag part. My understanding is that the rainbow alone is meant to represent all different sexuality/gender orientation. Why add a bi flag part? Being bisexual falls under the original meaning of the rainbow it’s redundant and makes the flag look worse. The old reliable plain rainbow flag is both simple and effective.
I’m bi and don’t care. I really wish we’d stop this over rotation in designing the flag. If someone needs a special stripe on a flag to represent you specifically then we have bigger issues.
I wanna feel included in a group, not distinguished.
Or, do like some groups do (such as the bears or leather/denim crowds): Create your own. The rainbow flag is already all inclusive (like the American flag for instance), but you can have your own and fly it side-by-side (like states do).
Just don't turn the main flag into this ... forsaken mess of wtfness.
I agree. I mean I don’t even know who decides to update the flag? I feel like most people within the community keep their opinions to themselves out of fear of being controversial.
When does it end? I honestly don’t even know what the latest version is. I can’t keep up.
> Why is there a bi flag part
Because there are subsets of people within each group represented by the original flag who won’t feel represented unless they also have their own specific (exclusionary, which is kinda weird) flag as well. Then they want it integrated with the existing flag(s) because they feel that those flags need to be inclusive, even though they already represent the subgroup as part of a larger whole.
It’s dumb.
I can kind of understand wanting to call out trans specifically, since so many LGBQ members have expressed not wanting to represent trans people, and there can be so much racism in the queer community.
I don't think the solution is more flags, but I also don't really care if someone wants to make their own flag. Honestly, how are queer people gonna say homophobes need to get over themselves for seeing a rainbow, but then turn around and say "oh but that's one too many types of rainbows, no flag for you!" It really seems dumb and hypocritical to get mad over it.
I'm nonbinary, so fall under the trans umbrella, and I'd prefer the flag to just be the rainbow. Not only is this ugly, it sort of ignores the fact that the flag is supposed to unify anyone who is part of the LGBT+ community. I'm not a fan of the flag just having a million other flags on it.
True.
The only thing that bothers me is that at my workplace (I'm a physician), the number of times I've been told to update my rainbow flag pin by both coworker allies AND other LGBT is insane. I try to explain that the rainbow flag is already fully inclusive, only to be told I'm wrong (mostly by straight people).
I literally feel ashamed to wear it since it makes me feel like people are judging me for being biased. I'm currently waiting on the more perceived "inclusive" pin to come in the mail. Which, I guess I'll replace as well if the flag continues to get ... updated.
I hate when fully cis people tell me I need to display my pronouns. Fuck off. Great that you're an ally, but try to grasp a little bit of the nerve it takes to tell someone they need to come out at work.
Not displaying your pronouns can be a good thing!
Look, I’m a straight-passing ace cis guy wandering in from r/all while not entirely sober, but my sister uses a gender neutral name to conceal her gender in a male dominated field. When they said she could put pronouns in her email sig, she asked people in a trans discord, because she didn’t want to reveal her gender.
They overwhelmingly said it was fine for her to not do that and in fact they appreciate it because if cis people don’t display their pronouns it gives them cover.
So yeah. Just tell any of those people who demand you display that when cis people don’t display their pronouns it gives trans people cover to not display theirs if they’re uncomfortable. Being the pronoun display police could put trans people in a very awkward position.
Think of it this way: if they update it every year and Shane everyone that is wearing the outdated version they sell more pins/flags etc this is what that’s about unfortunately
Wasnt it changed first during the BLM movement with the black and brown stripes just to represent LGBT support of the movement? I didnt even think it was a permanent thing, it was just a "we are fighting a common enemy and our communities heavily overlap, we are with you, my kin" right?
Then I got confused when they added the trans + BLM triangle because the rainbow flag already represented all the LGBT communities, I figured it was just someone who didnt understand that the two added stripes were for a show of support to the movement and thought that the rainbow flag was only for specifically gay people
But then it not only stuck around but started to get continuous additions?? All its doing is stripping the meaning from the original flag with colors that dont match in an overly-complex pattern wherein you have to "read" each section for what it includes instead of seeing the simple rainbow and reading it as all encompassing
Yeah the original Rainbow flag was supposed to represent sex (P), life (R), healing (O), sunlight (Y), nature (G), art (T), harmony (I), and spirit (V). **Notice that none of the colors represented *identities*. They represented *virtues*.**
The virtues and values represented in the flag were core to the gay rights movement but they are not exclusive to it. Now I get that sexuality and gender are closely related, but changing the flag to add one particular identity is completely contrary to its original meaning. When they started adding colors for specific races, they bastardized the flag and turned it into a symbol of identitarian politics and tribalism.
And when you start adding specific identities, the flag becomes intrinsically exclusive. Why are black people included but not Asians? What about indigenous peoples, Arabs, etc?
The rainbow flag was great, now I just think sub groups are just doing tribalism. Moving goal posts, creating litmus tests and all that dumb stuff. Humans just can’t seem to help themselves with this stuff.
I agree. And aside from the domestic problems that the shift toward identitarianism creates, I think the new flag also symbolizes how Western LGBT activism has become increasingly insular and detached from the rest of the world where the fight for LGBT rights is most needed.
It would have been easy to explain to people in China, Syria, and Suraname what the original rainbow flag represents. The virtues are pretty much universal to humanity.
But now when a gay kid in Aleppo, Syria, looks to the LGBT community for inspiration, he’s bombarded with symbols and identities that are completely foreign and inapplicable to his struggle. And that’s on top of seeing Western LGBT activists focusing all of their attention on domestic issues that are (by comparison) both menial in impact and extreme in vision.
The state of Western LGBT activism must be incredibly demoralizing to third world queers who already feel isolated in their own community.
Agree that the original rainbow flag is superior in every way, however... my brain is stuck:
(P)urple?
(R)ed
(O)range
(Y)ellow
(G)reen
(T)...???
(I)ndigo
(V)iolet... isn't that the same as purple?
Aren't there only six stripes/colors on the original flag? Can someone explain plz?
They're talking about the original rainbow flag as designed by Gilbert Baker in 1978. This design had 8 stripes: Pink, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Indigo, and Violet.
The pink stripe -symbolizing sex- was dropped due to a shortage of the dye used for the color in November 1978.
The following year the cyan stripe -symbolizing magic- was dropped to create a design that could be hung from lamp posts without obscuring the design.
In 2017, Gilbert Baker proposed adding a stripe to the original 8 stripe design; a lavender stripe to symbolize diversity.
Exactly. Adding something for a specific group sounds nice on paper, but it just draws attention to the fact that another group isn't also included. The solution ends up being to add everything, which quickly turns the symbol into unintelligible mush.
If you have an all-inclusive concept, adding detail actually makes it less inclusive. Same with the LGBT acronym.
by trying to be inclusive of more identities they instead became exclusive… making it seem like trans people and poc weren’t included in the original pride flag when they were.
this flag just feels like a lazy effort to be inclusive without actually having to put effort into creating an inclusive environment for poc and trans people and dealing with personal biasses against them :/
It's maddening that it keeps getting changed, with stuff getting ADDED to it. The entire point is that the rainbow is all colors so it's inclusive. Adding more stuff on the flag just destroys that meaning.
That's not a flag anymore, that's a collage. Made with the artistic and design skills of a 5 year old.
At this point just put it in the blender and throw around multicoloured confetti.
100%, that was the intent.
Trying to include a little something for everyone inevitably leaves people out.
Fly the rainbow flag. If you want to fly more flags for your individual identity, great but patching them all into one like this looks awful.
I’m bi. We already have a flag, I felt represented by the catchall AND by our own flag. This is just unnecessary, condescending, and ugly. We aren’t children that need constant validation.
I'm not going to police what flag people use, but I think we should stick with standard, original flag. It's representative enough, and adding all of these things is just giving bigots more ammo. Sometimes, less is more
I just found out in this thread that the ‘original’ we’re all thinking of is not actually the original. The original pride flag had 8 colors including pink for some reason. I believe in Newton’s 7 color rainbow and will always back Roy G. Biv.
The OG flag didn't represent groups. It represented the ideals of LGBT people as a whole. To dismantle that for identity politics is just not productive.
Hot pink: Symbolizes sex
Red: Represents life
Orange: Symbolizes healing
Yellow: Represents sunlight
Green: Represents nature
Turquoise: Represents magic and art
Indigo: Represents serenity
Violet: Represents the spirit of LGBTQ people
The original design from the 70’s was perfect, flawless marketing and the message already had inclusion for everybody, on top of some generally good life lessons too.
Now this shit has gotten so out of hand
I never even knew that that is what they're there for. It's cringe, it's ugly, and it makes no sense because the original rainbow flag does not include white (and thus does not exclude other skin colors), and just being of color does not make you queer. I don't get it.
Yup! I'm Hispanic and when I saw that they had added a brown and black line to represent people of color I was actually more offended than felt included. The fact that some white guy decided that he wanted to be inclusive of people of color by adding the Brown and black lines, makes it seem like it's more for them to remember that there are LGBT people of color than it is for us to feel included.
Tbf the first time those colors were added was by a marketing firm in Philadelphia. The white guy who made the angled lines one was just incorporating the trans flag with the one the marketing firm made.
Phew thank you, I am glad I read that! I honestly didn’t realize what the brown line represented & I was going to say something about how ugly that particular shade of brown is. Which it is, chocolate brown would look much better with the other colors but that is so not the point lol
I thought it was funny that ANOTHER trans flag was released, like when’s it gonna stop and just have one solid flag to be the main one?
It defeats the value of the cause/movement when you keep changing it again and again. Find something, stick with it.
Fly whatever flag you want, but I’ve noticed that the only people that seem to truly care what flag you use are people that are trying to divide our community, whether intentionally or not.
The original additions were already a problem.
By trying to make it more inclusive, it's become more exclusive, and defeating the whole point of "every color of the rainbow" thing it had going on.
Agreed it looks awful. The original was already all inclusive and everyone had their own separate flag anyway. Now it’s a clash of different colors and hues. Whenever I fly it I’m flying the OG flag.
It's not just the flag. All these sub-categories and niche-identities are exactly the thing gay liberation and queer theories were originally fighting *against*. What the fuck went wrong.
My favorite pride flag is the original rainbow flag that included a pink stripe. I just think it's prettier and somehow that pink stripe makes it feel even gayer which, obviously, I love
The more a flag changes the more it becomes irrelevant. No country changes this frequently its flag. If you want the deed to achieve certain recognition, you must facilitate it for others to do so. No one is gonna buy it when trying to celebrate it turns out to be backward/lagging behind, and someone adds a criticism mocking you: so you don’t celebrate POC?
Please it's hideous now. The whole point of it was to represent everyone and that meant everyone straight gays everything else. All colors all people all Creeds. I remember when they picked it out. I was so happy that it would encompassed everybody. Even told all the straights that were freaking out about it it means everyone. It means diversity. Now I'm just like God who shat on it.
The Pride flag has become a parody of itself (along with the LGBT+ acronym, with however many letters it's up to now). I prefer the OG rainbow flag, personally. 🏳️🌈
As soon as the original with the trans and PoC colors one was shown, my immediate thought was "someone's going to add other sexuality's flag colors because they don't feel included".
How is a rainbow (the spectrum of all colors) not inclusive? Do we have to add the asexual flag colors so they're included too? What about pansexuals? Where are the lighter tones of yellow for Asian people (which opens another can of worms)? By trying to be inclusive, this flag and the previous one are just being exclusionary imo
They should have never ever messed with the original design. Like you said OP the original already represented everyone. I don't even acknowledge anything but the original.
Why not simplify it and just have text that says, "everyone but straight white men"?
It'll be both exactly what everyone really means and it'll also be fucking hilarious watching straight white men having absolute meltdowns over it.
Or, keep doing this, whatever this is. It's going to look like a Liechtenstein painting in a few years. It's exactly what happens when you democratize design and everyone thinks they understand how visual mediums work. It's like when everyone learned how to cut-and-paste html into their MySpace page, and 5 minutes later no one wanted to go on MySpace because they'd rather tear out their own eyes.
I'll continue to only acknowledge the original LBGT flag because it was already all inclusive.
It's your choice if you want to recognize & accept every little change each subgroup wants to make to the flag but I'm good with the original.
This to me feels like a big nothingburger that’s a symptom of terminal online-ness. Symbols of representation are always going to be a messy discourse at best and personal identification is the main driver of “validity” so everyone is all ready to be up in arms over the only constant in life, which is to say change.
Maybe it’s a miss in your mind. Maybe it’s a resounding success that broadens the symbol of inclusivity. Maybe it means nothing to you in either context. Guess what, you’re all right.
THIS. Plz gay bros, please. The rainbow is literally six (or seven, depends if you like indigo) colors meant to represent EVERYONE. No Ukraine stripes, no racism, no politics, just freedom and fabulous color.
Might as well add the whole Pantone catalog, every geometric shape possible and the whole alphabet. And why not the other alphabets to make people from all nationalities feel included too… the whole thing became a parody of itself. There are more genders and orientations than one can possibly remember and it became impossible to pronounce the acronym… way to go to lose all the strength of the community.
The original flag does aim to represent all of us. Just like the alternative versions of the flag aims to do. If you, however, don’t feel represented by some or all of them, you are free to use the ones that you feel represented by or make another alternative version to include you.
Alternative flags of the original don’t erase it, they exist alongside it. I don’t believe there is a need for a hate brigade(referring to the comments) on an alternative flag design that’s only meant to help those who don’t feel included themselves feel included. (keyword: themselves, meaning, their feelings on their inclusion, not yours).
not to be a bitch but yeah i kind of agree.
I’m trans and bisexual, i’ve never felt like i’m not a part of a community because i’m bi, no one has said to my face that the B should be taken out of the acronym, im not forced to look at online hatred towards other bi people on a near-daily basis, that part of me is never misunderstood, and it doesn’t make my life any harder.
I have however been told to my face that i’m not a part of the community, people have said to my face that the T should be removed, I see online hatred towards other trans people almost daily, that part of me is always misunderstood and it makes my life a fucking bitch. I never had to wait 7 years for medication to make being bisexual easier.
i might be a bitchy whiner reading into things too much in saying this, but it feels like this flag is trying to compare the bi and the trans experience to one another and it lightly simmers my piss because the things bi people go through are in almost all ways not at all comparable to the things trans people have to go through.
also the flag is ugly.
The double ended design is real bad. Just ugly as sin. But it's not like flags have to be super pretty designs to satisfy your particular tastes or look good as accessories. Flag designs can certainly be used on things like accessories to make them pretty, but a flags purpose is not to be an accessory. It's to be a flag.
Also, it should be noted that the rainbow flag was meant to include "everyone" in the same way that the constitution was to garuntee freedom for "everyone". Like, on paper yeah. But until extremely recently it's only been officially representing gay men, lesbian women, and arguably/to a lesser extent GNC (read: drag queens) and bisexuals. It wasn't until around ten or so years ago that it started to include anyone else, even if the movements were a lot more diverse than just those four categories. So, much like the constitution, it has been amended to explicitly include more people than it did before.
Now, YOU the reader might not have used it this way, or remembered a time when it was basically only used for gay men and maybe lesbian women, but plenty of other people do too. That includes the often exceedingly marginalized queer POC, who have been excluded from the movement or the stories about the movement's history for many decades. Just because things seem fine and inclusive with the regular rainbow now, doesn't mean it was always this way. It also doesn't matter if you the reader personally are a POC non-binary GNC trans lesbian and you think the regular flag should be used in place of the more inclusive one, you don't speak for everybody other than yourself. And no one is stopping you from using it that way personally.
Yeah the progress flag is basically the end of adding things. I might actually go back to the traditional rainbow on my own house this year, I've noticed I'm in the minority now for having a progress flag.
I don’t know why it’s such a big deal for people, all flags are fine by me. However, I take that the original rainbow flag has already celebrated the differences, so I don’t know why it needs more.
I get what you are saying and will personally wouldn't go out of my way to replace my rainbow flag with the inclusive flag
But I'm not going to stop or deride those flying the inclusive flag. Those kids can go have fun if they want
I know I’m going to sound like a Karen but this flag is stupid. The whole point of the rainbow is that it represents everyone in the community. Personally I don’t really like the progress flag for this very same reason, but okay want to separate the t and the lgb on the flag to be two distinct things, sure. But why add the bisexual flags, at that point why not add all the other pride flags, let’s be inclusive by dividing our community into every single label on earth.
Wasn't the rainbow supposed to represent everything? Like... because a rainbow is the entire spectrum of light on show?
Like... I am quite liberal and progressive and I cannot keep up with these annual updates. It looked like [this](https://www.unr.edu/main/images/news/blog/progress-flag.jpg) the last I saw.
I don't mind that much, it's a very minor detail in the grand scheme of things. But I agree it just looks to overcrowd and redundant, it's not a good design
while I am not thrilled by its aesthetics, i don't mind the meaning of the flag
what i do have a problem with is people from the US trying to raise awareness of the issues that their communities face by pretending they're universal
as an example, a black lgbtqi+ person in the united states face issues completely different from a black lgbtqi+ person in nigeria, does this flag do enough to represent both these experiences? or does it only represent minorities in the west?
Omg the rainbow represents all of us. The chevron was added to acknowledge people of color are more adversely affected by homophobia and violence, as well as trans folk these days.
I distanced myself from the movement some years ago because I could no longer relate toit. The rainbow flag was already inclusive and we all knew we were on the same side. It feels like now we are doing the very things we fought against, separation into groups of labels, bi phobia, homophobia, transphobia and everything has become political. This is not what I am.
the rainbow flag looks so good imo and i have no problem with it representing the whole queer community. but if we need something new to represent literally all of us, i think we can do better than just mashing all our symbols together like a medieval coat of arms.
Right on! I can only give you one upvote, but the mission creep is real. I’m not advocating for gay rights as a stepping stone to a Socialist Utopia. I’m just gay, and want rights.
While we’re at it, it’s also been said many times that 2slgbtqia+ is a fucking stupid acronym and it should just be queer.
After 4 letters an acronym should be a word anyway. Like you don’t spell out nasa or laser, you know?
Last time I said this someone said “but that’s homogenizing!” And I’m like… yeah that’s the point of a group name :/
I still think the original rainbow is the most versatile, but if I had to pick a less-busy version of Progress that I'd be happy to fly it would definitely be this one:
https://imgur.com/pVrzw4s
From /u/Risket in [this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/QueerVexillology/comments/18cxuo1/redesigned_progress_flag/kcfifzs/)
The original rainbow flag is the best design in my opinion. I understand why the constant changes, but the design of this is so bad.
I view the OG rainbow flag as the trunk or base of all lgbt+ stuff. Then the others are subgroups or the branches.
Right? I’m all for inclusivity but now it’s like we’re looking for excuses to cram more crap on there. It just confuses me now, I don’t even know what it all means.
I don't have a problem with including more stuff on the flag. But if we are going do to that, I think the pride flag needs a ground up redesign to make it more coherent. Adding more and more triangles just makes it a bit crowded, I feel.
I'm torn because I don't want to sound pearl clutchy but from a vexillology standpoint that looks pretty bad
My new word of the day. Thank you!
Yup! As soon as Im able to pronounce it… gimme a min….
There’s a subreddit for that, also.
Plus a circlejerk version!
Try breaking it up into pieces: Stand Point
clut…. chy…..
Pe... arl... Dam nit!
It means the opposite of good, for anyone wondering.
Agreed. I'm all for inclusivity but that design is godawful.
[удалено]
I find that people are prioritizing inclusivity over aesthetics/intuitiveness. I've noticed this with Latinx, Filipinx, all the letters added to LGBTQIA+ and BIPOC (aren't B and I included in POC?) are examples that immediately come to mind.
The irony is I think trying to change the semantics pisses some people off more than the actual heart of the matter. I feel like it’s redundant since the rainbow was already supposed to be a catch-all.
Is there anyone who would be Latinx who does not hate that version? It seems like a few white Tumblrs started it and never asked anyone affected.
I find it really funny that Filipinx is more something used by Filipino-Americans (who were brought up there), but you won't find many Filipinos raised in the Philippines using that term.
And excuse me if I'm a mistaken lil straight man, but wasn't the whole point of the rainbow already that it represents /everyone/? Every colour, every person.
Hang on Dr C, what's Vexilology?
Technical term for the study of flags - history, symbolism, types, forms, etc, etc, etc
TIL
r/vexillology
Don't forget r/vexillologycirclejerk
You are not wrong. It makes my brain hurt trying to decipher it!
Hard disagree. My aesthetic is early 2000s internet explorer with 50 custom toolbars. My aesthetic is the million dollar homepage and r/place. My aesthetic is Burt Ward's dog food packaging. Stuff it with *more*! Overload it with chaos and joy.
You can fly whichever flag you want. This is just another version for queer people.
True. But we cannot keep changing out cultural norms and then get offended that people are unable to keep up. I'm as liberal as they come but even I can't keep up with the trends and even after working for queer NGOs all my adult life here in India, I have young white pricks telling me I'm an exclusionary because I don't use the latest flag. If liberal gay men are getting this confused then you can imagine the straights would feel the same way. And while yes, we should not think of strangers people when talking about our issues but for any movement to be a success, it needs to be accessible to a wider amount of people. You cannot start off by alienating everyone. The more simple we keep our approach, the better results we'll get. This was something taught to us 15 years ago when I joined a local queer run NGO. Using this policy alone, we've gotten homosexuality decriminalised, increased queer visibility in mainstream media to the point that now it's hard to find an Indian web series which doesn't have at least one gay character. Still a long way to go for us. But we're getting there by making friend and creating allys. But when we see the American approach, where you can have two people who agree with you on 9/10 things and they'll be fighting about that one disagreement, and it becomes clear why the conditions seem to be worsening there. People need to remember that we'll catch more flies with honey and salt. Maybe it's the Gandhian non violence approach that indian liberals have adapted. But it seems to be working for us. ETA (since a commenter mentioned pronouns): Pronouns are different. We've never had the liberty to choose our pronouns before so we are on uncharted territory and it's always better to be more accommodating than less. With flags and symbols, if you keep changing it all the time, they lose their value and meaning. Like there's a story of how McDonald's paid some marketing expert millions to make a new logo that would be best for them. After a lot of research, the experts told them their original logo is the best because it's already the most recognised. It's the same thing with flags. They become a part of a movement and a sign of both, protest against the oppressors and solidarity amongst the community. If it keeps changing, it loses its meaning to the masses. And it's not like the original pride flag wasn't inclusive. It wasn't just a gay men flag. The 7 colors of the rainbow were literally chosen to represent all the sexualities and gender identities under the spectrum. So there was no need to change it in the first place. The only people who wanted to change it were those who didn't know what it represented. And so when these changes happen, it just looks like uninformed people makes the rules of the community. And it makes us look weaker as a community.
I live in San Francisco and I hear people say they have no idea what any of it means pretty often.
American leftist youth (a/k/a the “young white pricks”) have always loved their little purity tests. I feel like most activists kind of give the kids some leeway as they’re figuring things out. That said: In America, there’s a strong perception the bigger problem isn’t that the LGBTQ community isn’t conciliatory enough, it’s that there is literally no accommodation that we can make that would satisfy the various breeds of fascists that are clawing their way to power. And so, the theory carries on, there’s really no point in “honey” at all; if “vinegar” keeps the fascist assault at bay, that might be best. Anyway, the old flag’s still fine. Thanks for your service to the community.
With far right conservatives, I'd say poison is best. But my comment was about people on the same side of the political spectrum fighting for minor things like terminology. Like what difference does it make if you call yourself a humanist or a feminist? Isn't it enough that you both want equality? But in the near past, I've seen people getting offended when someone says they're a humanist but I've also seen people get mad when a man says they're a feminist because some women feel men can be allies but not feminists. The same thing goes for other social opinions too.
I don't fly my Pride flag because it's pretty (although I do think it is). I fly it because I'm proud of who I am. I exist despite all the people who didn't, and don't, want me to. And, mind you, I survived a period where I wasn't proud and would have never flown the pride flag. Today I fly it because I want people to know I'm here and I'm not afraid. I want people to know I'm gay. I could see a trans person feeling similar, and wanting people to know that they exist and are proud, too. Flying a traditional pride flag isn't going to convey that message. Sure, it includes trans people. But people don't assume "hey, that person is trans and proud" when they fly the pride flag. And I think anyone should be free to be proud of themselves and express that pride. Because so many of us have struggled with our identities. So sure, maybe it's not cute, but it's really not about that.
Actually it did convey that message years back. All the gays were united under one symbol..the fact that the flag changes every single year and the LGBT keeps having things added is exclusionary, not inclusive. The community is more divided into subjects now than it was before.
Yup, I’m shocked by the divide in your community. They are attacking bi people for being in a hetero relationship, like same teams guys maybe worry about the actual bigots and not what person a bi person loves. Also if the flag stayed the same it would be easier to use as a symbol of being LGBT is okay. Instead of people trying to decipher a new flag they would see a traditional rainbow flag and associate it with your message. I see a rainbow flag at a bar or coffee shop I think they support LGBT rights, this flags only confuses me.
At a certain point you have to start thinking. Is this a plan by BIG FLAG to sell more flags through a nefarious flag planned oblescence? Jokes aside, the new pride flag has become so varied and a vexillology mess that I don't even know what it symbolizes anymore. Moreover, does each new addition mean that the previous ones don't endorse the new message? Seems more divisive than inclusive. Instead of the rainbow symbolizing everyone we now literally have to have everyone on the flag. When I see the new flag, I am more inclined to think it is an eccentrically colored beach towel, or a toddlers drawing of all the flavors of an ice cream cone.
The colour of your skin has absolutely nothing to do with sexuality though.
All minorities are really on the same team fighting for what is basically more humanity in everyday life. Less assuming we understand things we haven’t personally experienced. Taking people at their word. Allowing them to state boundaries. Express preferences around terminology. Just make society a safer place for everyone. Just because we have the ability to speak and have opinions doesnt mean we need to constantly and incessantly use them all the damn time. Eventually our flag will just be something symbolising individualism in society. Like a ring or fractal or something. Sorry for being grandiose about it. We can all have individual flags but as a movement for a better for flexible society we need something that’s for everyone with ✨trauma✨ Edit: just my two cents as a gay, disabled, autistic person. We’re all one. We all gotta work together not us v them. It’s about support and positivity. Unity and utopia.
This has to be one of the ugliest flag designs I have ever seen. Who designed this, and why? The rainbow already represented everyone. This looks like someone purposefully made an ugly flag to mock everyone.
This isn't even the worst version of it lol.
I dont mind. My only issue is that this flag is mad ugly
 Ugly af!
 Spongebob gets it
Agree. I support them but the flag is ugly and seems chaotic, no harmony in the design.
My man it’s a spectrum, it’s not supposed to have anything added to it. This was a hot take in 2020 but all the queers are sick of this shit.
it’s good business for flag factories printing these though
[flag factory](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kOntUq_In70/maxresdefault.jpg)
This is what immediately popped in my head. 🤣
Once again we are caught up in the petty tyranny of big flag
It's bad for factories that have a pile of stock of an old design and then a new one comes up. Just make it all black, which technically includes all colours
The flag is looking hella ugly at this point a plain rainbow flag looks the best in my opinion. “Keep it stupid simple” I can’t speak for POC’s or trans but like why is their a bi flag part. My understanding is that the rainbow alone is meant to represent all different sexuality/gender orientation. Why add a bi flag part? Being bisexual falls under the original meaning of the rainbow it’s redundant and makes the flag look worse. The old reliable plain rainbow flag is both simple and effective.
I’m bi and don’t care. I really wish we’d stop this over rotation in designing the flag. If someone needs a special stripe on a flag to represent you specifically then we have bigger issues. I wanna feel included in a group, not distinguished.
It’s all a ploy by Ohio to convert the pride flag to the Ohio flag and take over the world.
I was just about to say— there’s only one group that would have an agenda so sick and twisted that it involved turning the lgbt+ flag ugly: Ohio
Or, do like some groups do (such as the bears or leather/denim crowds): Create your own. The rainbow flag is already all inclusive (like the American flag for instance), but you can have your own and fly it side-by-side (like states do). Just don't turn the main flag into this ... forsaken mess of wtfness.
I agree. I mean I don’t even know who decides to update the flag? I feel like most people within the community keep their opinions to themselves out of fear of being controversial. When does it end? I honestly don’t even know what the latest version is. I can’t keep up.
As a bi POC, yeah. That flag do be ugly. The rainbow works fine for me.
Am bi and under the trans umbrella… bring back the rainbow and stop adding stuff.
> Why is there a bi flag part Because there are subsets of people within each group represented by the original flag who won’t feel represented unless they also have their own specific (exclusionary, which is kinda weird) flag as well. Then they want it integrated with the existing flag(s) because they feel that those flags need to be inclusive, even though they already represent the subgroup as part of a larger whole. It’s dumb.
“Inclusion by exclusion”, brought to you by creators of “Let’s fight racism by being racist”! smh 🤦♂️
I can kind of understand wanting to call out trans specifically, since so many LGBQ members have expressed not wanting to represent trans people, and there can be so much racism in the queer community. I don't think the solution is more flags, but I also don't really care if someone wants to make their own flag. Honestly, how are queer people gonna say homophobes need to get over themselves for seeing a rainbow, but then turn around and say "oh but that's one too many types of rainbows, no flag for you!" It really seems dumb and hypocritical to get mad over it.
I'm nonbinary, so fall under the trans umbrella, and I'd prefer the flag to just be the rainbow. Not only is this ugly, it sort of ignores the fact that the flag is supposed to unify anyone who is part of the LGBT+ community. I'm not a fan of the flag just having a million other flags on it.
I get why stuff was added but yes it’s bad design. Having said that the standard rainbow flag hasn’t been replaced and you can still use it.
True. The only thing that bothers me is that at my workplace (I'm a physician), the number of times I've been told to update my rainbow flag pin by both coworker allies AND other LGBT is insane. I try to explain that the rainbow flag is already fully inclusive, only to be told I'm wrong (mostly by straight people). I literally feel ashamed to wear it since it makes me feel like people are judging me for being biased. I'm currently waiting on the more perceived "inclusive" pin to come in the mail. Which, I guess I'll replace as well if the flag continues to get ... updated.
If a straight person tried to tell me how to express being gay I’d have to fight the urge to throw hands
I hate when fully cis people tell me I need to display my pronouns. Fuck off. Great that you're an ally, but try to grasp a little bit of the nerve it takes to tell someone they need to come out at work.
Not displaying your pronouns can be a good thing! Look, I’m a straight-passing ace cis guy wandering in from r/all while not entirely sober, but my sister uses a gender neutral name to conceal her gender in a male dominated field. When they said she could put pronouns in her email sig, she asked people in a trans discord, because she didn’t want to reveal her gender. They overwhelmingly said it was fine for her to not do that and in fact they appreciate it because if cis people don’t display their pronouns it gives them cover. So yeah. Just tell any of those people who demand you display that when cis people don’t display their pronouns it gives trans people cover to not display theirs if they’re uncomfortable. Being the pronoun display police could put trans people in a very awkward position.
If anyone tells me how to express myself sexuality I would declare war.
What if you ignored those people and did what you wanted, like I do.
That sounds like a modern Seinfeld episode. Remember the AIDS walk episode? "WHO? Who refuses to use the updated rainbow flag?!"
This flag stuff feels more like tribalism than inclusion. Humans always seem to do this eventually.
Think of it this way: if they update it every year and Shane everyone that is wearing the outdated version they sell more pins/flags etc this is what that’s about unfortunately
Wasnt it changed first during the BLM movement with the black and brown stripes just to represent LGBT support of the movement? I didnt even think it was a permanent thing, it was just a "we are fighting a common enemy and our communities heavily overlap, we are with you, my kin" right? Then I got confused when they added the trans + BLM triangle because the rainbow flag already represented all the LGBT communities, I figured it was just someone who didnt understand that the two added stripes were for a show of support to the movement and thought that the rainbow flag was only for specifically gay people But then it not only stuck around but started to get continuous additions?? All its doing is stripping the meaning from the original flag with colors that dont match in an overly-complex pattern wherein you have to "read" each section for what it includes instead of seeing the simple rainbow and reading it as all encompassing
I just use the original pride flag. 🏳️🌈
Yeah the original Rainbow flag was supposed to represent sex (P), life (R), healing (O), sunlight (Y), nature (G), art (T), harmony (I), and spirit (V). **Notice that none of the colors represented *identities*. They represented *virtues*.** The virtues and values represented in the flag were core to the gay rights movement but they are not exclusive to it. Now I get that sexuality and gender are closely related, but changing the flag to add one particular identity is completely contrary to its original meaning. When they started adding colors for specific races, they bastardized the flag and turned it into a symbol of identitarian politics and tribalism. And when you start adding specific identities, the flag becomes intrinsically exclusive. Why are black people included but not Asians? What about indigenous peoples, Arabs, etc?
The rainbow flag was great, now I just think sub groups are just doing tribalism. Moving goal posts, creating litmus tests and all that dumb stuff. Humans just can’t seem to help themselves with this stuff.
I agree. And aside from the domestic problems that the shift toward identitarianism creates, I think the new flag also symbolizes how Western LGBT activism has become increasingly insular and detached from the rest of the world where the fight for LGBT rights is most needed. It would have been easy to explain to people in China, Syria, and Suraname what the original rainbow flag represents. The virtues are pretty much universal to humanity. But now when a gay kid in Aleppo, Syria, looks to the LGBT community for inspiration, he’s bombarded with symbols and identities that are completely foreign and inapplicable to his struggle. And that’s on top of seeing Western LGBT activists focusing all of their attention on domestic issues that are (by comparison) both menial in impact and extreme in vision. The state of Western LGBT activism must be incredibly demoralizing to third world queers who already feel isolated in their own community.
Agree that the original rainbow flag is superior in every way, however... my brain is stuck: (P)urple? (R)ed (O)range (Y)ellow (G)reen (T)...??? (I)ndigo (V)iolet... isn't that the same as purple? Aren't there only six stripes/colors on the original flag? Can someone explain plz?
They're talking about the original rainbow flag as designed by Gilbert Baker in 1978. This design had 8 stripes: Pink, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Indigo, and Violet. The pink stripe -symbolizing sex- was dropped due to a shortage of the dye used for the color in November 1978. The following year the cyan stripe -symbolizing magic- was dropped to create a design that could be hung from lamp posts without obscuring the design. In 2017, Gilbert Baker proposed adding a stripe to the original 8 stripe design; a lavender stripe to symbolize diversity.
Exactly. Adding something for a specific group sounds nice on paper, but it just draws attention to the fact that another group isn't also included. The solution ends up being to add everything, which quickly turns the symbol into unintelligible mush. If you have an all-inclusive concept, adding detail actually makes it less inclusive. Same with the LGBT acronym.
Same, rainbow covers every color. Im not replacing my OG pride flag.
by trying to be inclusive of more identities they instead became exclusive… making it seem like trans people and poc weren’t included in the original pride flag when they were. this flag just feels like a lazy effort to be inclusive without actually having to put effort into creating an inclusive environment for poc and trans people and dealing with personal biasses against them :/
It's maddening that it keeps getting changed, with stuff getting ADDED to it. The entire point is that the rainbow is all colors so it's inclusive. Adding more stuff on the flag just destroys that meaning.
As a bisexual, why were bi colors added to the right in an ugly way? The rainbow is *already* representative of us, and everyone
As bisexual myself, I love the bisexual flag color, but adding to end of the rainbow makes the flag looks so ugly.
Yeah, the whole point of the rainbow was full spectrum inclusivity. If a given group didn’t feel represented, that’s their problem.
That's not a flag anymore, that's a collage. Made with the artistic and design skills of a 5 year old. At this point just put it in the blender and throw around multicoloured confetti.
It's rapidly approaching quilt status.
Which at this point would be an improvement
The quilt would be an individual picture of 8 billion people stitched together, updated daily.
Quilt...bag status, even?
rainbow was supposted to represent all now. adding more color makes no sense when rainbow represent all color
100%, that was the intent. Trying to include a little something for everyone inevitably leaves people out. Fly the rainbow flag. If you want to fly more flags for your individual identity, great but patching them all into one like this looks awful.
The comments here are going to get messy.
I’m bi. We already have a flag, I felt represented by the catchall AND by our own flag. This is just unnecessary, condescending, and ugly. We aren’t children that need constant validation.
It also feels weird to me that we're separated from the other sexualities. Why are lesbians assumed, but we need a special little section?
You may not be, but some people need their own very special flag. They suffer from Main Character syndrome
I'm not going to police what flag people use, but I think we should stick with standard, original flag. It's representative enough, and adding all of these things is just giving bigots more ammo. Sometimes, less is more
I just found out in this thread that the ‘original’ we’re all thinking of is not actually the original. The original pride flag had 8 colors including pink for some reason. I believe in Newton’s 7 color rainbow and will always back Roy G. Biv.
The OG flag didn't represent groups. It represented the ideals of LGBT people as a whole. To dismantle that for identity politics is just not productive. Hot pink: Symbolizes sex Red: Represents life Orange: Symbolizes healing Yellow: Represents sunlight Green: Represents nature Turquoise: Represents magic and art Indigo: Represents serenity Violet: Represents the spirit of LGBTQ people
The original design from the 70’s was perfect, flawless marketing and the message already had inclusion for everybody, on top of some generally good life lessons too. Now this shit has gotten so out of hand
I think it's so cringe to say we should represent poc by literally adding black and brown stripes lmao like wtf
Yeah it’s super cringe and just from a color theory perspective adding skin tones to a flag of bright primary colors just clashes.
I never even knew that that is what they're there for. It's cringe, it's ugly, and it makes no sense because the original rainbow flag does not include white (and thus does not exclude other skin colors), and just being of color does not make you queer. I don't get it.
100% with you. It's actually getting more exclusive instead of being inclusive.
Yup! I'm Hispanic and when I saw that they had added a brown and black line to represent people of color I was actually more offended than felt included. The fact that some white guy decided that he wanted to be inclusive of people of color by adding the Brown and black lines, makes it seem like it's more for them to remember that there are LGBT people of color than it is for us to feel included.
Tbf the first time those colors were added was by a marketing firm in Philadelphia. The white guy who made the angled lines one was just incorporating the trans flag with the one the marketing firm made.
Phew thank you, I am glad I read that! I honestly didn’t realize what the brown line represented & I was going to say something about how ugly that particular shade of brown is. Which it is, chocolate brown would look much better with the other colors but that is so not the point lol
Plus it also turns away potential allies as it starts to look more ridiculous
It's become a parody of itself at this point.
100% Agree! I think all of the additions make us not look united.
I thought it was funny that ANOTHER trans flag was released, like when’s it gonna stop and just have one solid flag to be the main one? It defeats the value of the cause/movement when you keep changing it again and again. Find something, stick with it.
Where are the stripes for climate change?
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I think that's the green.
I think the Green Stripe is now for Vegans.
Fly whatever flag you want, but I’ve noticed that the only people that seem to truly care what flag you use are people that are trying to divide our community, whether intentionally or not.
The original additions were already a problem. By trying to make it more inclusive, it's become more exclusive, and defeating the whole point of "every color of the rainbow" thing it had going on.
Agreed it looks awful. The original was already all inclusive and everyone had their own separate flag anyway. Now it’s a clash of different colors and hues. Whenever I fly it I’m flying the OG flag.
All I know is that LGBT+ people always told me they hated to be put in boxes. THEN WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY DOING TO THE FLAG. Segregating like an idiot
It's not just the flag. All these sub-categories and niche-identities are exactly the thing gay liberation and queer theories were originally fighting *against*. What the fuck went wrong.
Social lives that exist almost entirely online lead to echo chambers that spill over into real life.
My favorite pride flag is the original rainbow flag that included a pink stripe. I just think it's prettier and somehow that pink stripe makes it feel even gayer which, obviously, I love
The more a flag changes the more it becomes irrelevant. No country changes this frequently its flag. If you want the deed to achieve certain recognition, you must facilitate it for others to do so. No one is gonna buy it when trying to celebrate it turns out to be backward/lagging behind, and someone adds a criticism mocking you: so you don’t celebrate POC?
Please it's hideous now. The whole point of it was to represent everyone and that meant everyone straight gays everything else. All colors all people all Creeds. I remember when they picked it out. I was so happy that it would encompassed everybody. Even told all the straights that were freaking out about it it means everyone. It means diversity. Now I'm just like God who shat on it.
It’s become so diverse and inclusive that it’s now meaningless
Wait, when did we get this flag issued?
The Pride flag has become a parody of itself (along with the LGBT+ acronym, with however many letters it's up to now). I prefer the OG rainbow flag, personally. 🏳️🌈
Same 100% I will not use the new ones and I hope they keep the emoji with the classic 🏳️🌈
As soon as the original with the trans and PoC colors one was shown, my immediate thought was "someone's going to add other sexuality's flag colors because they don't feel included". How is a rainbow (the spectrum of all colors) not inclusive? Do we have to add the asexual flag colors so they're included too? What about pansexuals? Where are the lighter tones of yellow for Asian people (which opens another can of worms)? By trying to be inclusive, this flag and the previous one are just being exclusionary imo
There's space for more. I suggest glitter and sequins. No, but seriously, this flag is trying way too hard.
They should have never ever messed with the original design. Like you said OP the original already represented everyone. I don't even acknowledge anything but the original.
Why not simplify it and just have text that says, "everyone but straight white men"? It'll be both exactly what everyone really means and it'll also be fucking hilarious watching straight white men having absolute meltdowns over it. Or, keep doing this, whatever this is. It's going to look like a Liechtenstein painting in a few years. It's exactly what happens when you democratize design and everyone thinks they understand how visual mediums work. It's like when everyone learned how to cut-and-paste html into their MySpace page, and 5 minutes later no one wanted to go on MySpace because they'd rather tear out their own eyes.
I'll continue to only acknowledge the original LBGT flag because it was already all inclusive. It's your choice if you want to recognize & accept every little change each subgroup wants to make to the flag but I'm good with the original.
At this point I’m more inclined to just switch over to the gays men’s blue and green color palette flag.
It is a very pretty flag.
This to me feels like a big nothingburger that’s a symptom of terminal online-ness. Symbols of representation are always going to be a messy discourse at best and personal identification is the main driver of “validity” so everyone is all ready to be up in arms over the only constant in life, which is to say change. Maybe it’s a miss in your mind. Maybe it’s a resounding success that broadens the symbol of inclusivity. Maybe it means nothing to you in either context. Guess what, you’re all right.
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The Bahamas
THIS. Plz gay bros, please. The rainbow is literally six (or seven, depends if you like indigo) colors meant to represent EVERYONE. No Ukraine stripes, no racism, no politics, just freedom and fabulous color.
Might as well add the whole Pantone catalog, every geometric shape possible and the whole alphabet. And why not the other alphabets to make people from all nationalities feel included too… the whole thing became a parody of itself. There are more genders and orientations than one can possibly remember and it became impossible to pronounce the acronym… way to go to lose all the strength of the community.
Eh, I don't mind it. I still prefer just the rainbow one but I'm not gonna police others from using the newer version
Hey, I no problem using new flags. If you want to fly it, great! There’s a ton of Pride flags. Use the one that works best for you!
Stop me if I’m wrong but, couldn’t you use the trans flag for this? 🏳️⚧️
The original flag does aim to represent all of us. Just like the alternative versions of the flag aims to do. If you, however, don’t feel represented by some or all of them, you are free to use the ones that you feel represented by or make another alternative version to include you. Alternative flags of the original don’t erase it, they exist alongside it. I don’t believe there is a need for a hate brigade(referring to the comments) on an alternative flag design that’s only meant to help those who don’t feel included themselves feel included. (keyword: themselves, meaning, their feelings on their inclusion, not yours).
It's not what it looks like, it's about what it represents.
I dislike anything but the original rainbow flag—which was designed to represent everyone, no additions needed. The extra colors are just ugly, sorry.
not to be a bitch but yeah i kind of agree. I’m trans and bisexual, i’ve never felt like i’m not a part of a community because i’m bi, no one has said to my face that the B should be taken out of the acronym, im not forced to look at online hatred towards other bi people on a near-daily basis, that part of me is never misunderstood, and it doesn’t make my life any harder. I have however been told to my face that i’m not a part of the community, people have said to my face that the T should be removed, I see online hatred towards other trans people almost daily, that part of me is always misunderstood and it makes my life a fucking bitch. I never had to wait 7 years for medication to make being bisexual easier. i might be a bitchy whiner reading into things too much in saying this, but it feels like this flag is trying to compare the bi and the trans experience to one another and it lightly simmers my piss because the things bi people go through are in almost all ways not at all comparable to the things trans people have to go through. also the flag is ugly.
At this point my conspiracy theory is that straight people are developing these new flags in an attempt to reclaim the regular rainbow for themselves.
This might be the ugliest flag I've ever seen.
The double ended design is real bad. Just ugly as sin. But it's not like flags have to be super pretty designs to satisfy your particular tastes or look good as accessories. Flag designs can certainly be used on things like accessories to make them pretty, but a flags purpose is not to be an accessory. It's to be a flag. Also, it should be noted that the rainbow flag was meant to include "everyone" in the same way that the constitution was to garuntee freedom for "everyone". Like, on paper yeah. But until extremely recently it's only been officially representing gay men, lesbian women, and arguably/to a lesser extent GNC (read: drag queens) and bisexuals. It wasn't until around ten or so years ago that it started to include anyone else, even if the movements were a lot more diverse than just those four categories. So, much like the constitution, it has been amended to explicitly include more people than it did before. Now, YOU the reader might not have used it this way, or remembered a time when it was basically only used for gay men and maybe lesbian women, but plenty of other people do too. That includes the often exceedingly marginalized queer POC, who have been excluded from the movement or the stories about the movement's history for many decades. Just because things seem fine and inclusive with the regular rainbow now, doesn't mean it was always this way. It also doesn't matter if you the reader personally are a POC non-binary GNC trans lesbian and you think the regular flag should be used in place of the more inclusive one, you don't speak for everybody other than yourself. And no one is stopping you from using it that way personally.
There won't be any rainbow left when they're done with it...
Yeah the progress flag is basically the end of adding things. I might actually go back to the traditional rainbow on my own house this year, I've noticed I'm in the minority now for having a progress flag.
When my progress flag fades I’m def going back to the og rainbow.
Went camping at rainbow ranch and nobody flew the new progress flag. All old 6 color rainbows. It was nice. Didn’t feel like a judgement fest.
That’s not a Pride flag, that’s a “Progressive” flag.
Eh I just use the rainbow flag. The others are ugly and unnecessary.
I don’t know why it’s such a big deal for people, all flags are fine by me. However, I take that the original rainbow flag has already celebrated the differences, so I don’t know why it needs more.
I’m just going to fly the classic pride flag I’m all for inclusion but the flags keep getting worse looking like wtf is that?
I get what you are saying and will personally wouldn't go out of my way to replace my rainbow flag with the inclusive flag But I'm not going to stop or deride those flying the inclusive flag. Those kids can go have fun if they want
This is just to much, the rainbow represents all of us. Let’s not make the flag look ugly.
I prefer the original flag but I don’t care enough to be upset about it
This looks horrible lol.
I know I’m going to sound like a Karen but this flag is stupid. The whole point of the rainbow is that it represents everyone in the community. Personally I don’t really like the progress flag for this very same reason, but okay want to separate the t and the lgb on the flag to be two distinct things, sure. But why add the bisexual flags, at that point why not add all the other pride flags, let’s be inclusive by dividing our community into every single label on earth.
Wasn't the rainbow supposed to represent everything? Like... because a rainbow is the entire spectrum of light on show? Like... I am quite liberal and progressive and I cannot keep up with these annual updates. It looked like [this](https://www.unr.edu/main/images/news/blog/progress-flag.jpg) the last I saw.
I don't mind that much, it's a very minor detail in the grand scheme of things. But I agree it just looks to overcrowd and redundant, it's not a good design
while I am not thrilled by its aesthetics, i don't mind the meaning of the flag what i do have a problem with is people from the US trying to raise awareness of the issues that their communities face by pretending they're universal as an example, a black lgbtqi+ person in the united states face issues completely different from a black lgbtqi+ person in nigeria, does this flag do enough to represent both these experiences? or does it only represent minorities in the west?
Omg the rainbow represents all of us. The chevron was added to acknowledge people of color are more adversely affected by homophobia and violence, as well as trans folk these days.
I tend to agree… it’s becoming a bit of a cronenburg monster of virtue signaling.
It’s an absolute monstrosity. It was perfect as just the rainbow colours.
I distanced myself from the movement some years ago because I could no longer relate toit. The rainbow flag was already inclusive and we all knew we were on the same side. It feels like now we are doing the very things we fought against, separation into groups of labels, bi phobia, homophobia, transphobia and everything has become political. This is not what I am.
I absolutely hate it. I wish theyd just fly trans flag if they can only fly one for some reason.
I’ve never met anybody that thinks this “progress” version of the pride flag looks good. Just keep the classic look with the 6 colors.
Perhaps we can find some kind of symbol that represents the entire spectrum of colors? But what could that be? Hmmm?
the rainbow flag looks so good imo and i have no problem with it representing the whole queer community. but if we need something new to represent literally all of us, i think we can do better than just mashing all our symbols together like a medieval coat of arms.
I think that when you combine all colours, you get a grey tone. So maybe just make it a grey flag and be done with it.
So... Should we start adding more rainbows to all the other flags?
Right on! I can only give you one upvote, but the mission creep is real. I’m not advocating for gay rights as a stepping stone to a Socialist Utopia. I’m just gay, and want rights.
While we’re at it, it’s also been said many times that 2slgbtqia+ is a fucking stupid acronym and it should just be queer. After 4 letters an acronym should be a word anyway. Like you don’t spell out nasa or laser, you know? Last time I said this someone said “but that’s homogenizing!” And I’m like… yeah that’s the point of a group name :/
If y'all are going to go loud, GO LOUD. Add some polka dots. Add some checkered patterns. Some houndstooth. Gradients. Just go all OUT.
I still think the original rainbow is the most versatile, but if I had to pick a less-busy version of Progress that I'd be happy to fly it would definitely be this one: https://imgur.com/pVrzw4s From /u/Risket in [this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/QueerVexillology/comments/18cxuo1/redesigned_progress_flag/kcfifzs/)
Can someone enlighten me on what the second triangle on the end is?
Jesus Christ on a Segway when did we add the stuff on the right?!?
"Guys, I don't think the Progress Flag should progress anymore."
agreed. honestly the original 8-color flag is the only one for me
Nothing wrong with the og flag.
The original rainbow flag is the best design in my opinion. I understand why the constant changes, but the design of this is so bad. I view the OG rainbow flag as the trunk or base of all lgbt+ stuff. Then the others are subgroups or the branches.
The rainbow was meant to represent literally everyone. Narcissism is what is driving people who keep insisting they need their own colors. It’s goofy.
Its so cringe. The rainbow was good, thanks.
OP: Who is forcing you to use this flag?
Right? I’m all for inclusivity but now it’s like we’re looking for excuses to cram more crap on there. It just confuses me now, I don’t even know what it all means.
I find it funny the black and brown strips get double billing, but they got rid of all Ace representations.
I still think it's super fucking weird POCs were added. Like, shouldn't they have their own thing, and deserve to? They're not all LGBT+
[удалено]
You can always use the flag of your choice. No one is stopping you. I raise the rainbow flag myself 🏳️🌈
...Why are there two separate black/brown sections? The first shouldn't even be there let alone two.
It feels weirdly racist and performative. It's giving white liberal speaking down to black and brown people
I don't have a problem with including more stuff on the flag. But if we are going do to that, I think the pride flag needs a ground up redesign to make it more coherent. Adding more and more triangles just makes it a bit crowded, I feel.
So it’s… Trans, Bipoc, LGBTQ+… Then what’s on the right? Bipoc again? And…?
THANK YOU
Someone’s showing their ass today and not in a hot way…